Problems with snakes on the bluebird trail (Part 1)
In addition to Messages that have appeared in the Bluebird Mailing Lists on this topic, the following are on the Audubon Society of Omaha website: Predators and Problems
On The Bluebird Trail
Subj: Krueger snake trap
Date: 4/9/99 10:51:13 PM Central Daylight Time
From: kridler"at"1Starnet.com (Keith & Sandy Kridler)
Sender: owner-BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Reply-to: kridler"at"1Starnet.com (Keith & Sandy Kridler)
To: BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu (BLUEBIRD-L)
Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas still 80* outside
Jim McLochlin is about ready to post Harry's plans for building a snake trap to
his site. Harry Krueger was meticulous with his articles. He believed that what
we wrote would live far longer than us and he never wanted anything he wrote or
tested to EVER be proven wrong. After testing his trap for a month I wanted him
to write an article about it! Well after three years of testing he was about to
do the article when he had a report of a snake getting by the trap and
killing/eating birds. We started all over and tested again for three years
because he wanted a trap that was 100% effective. He never was totally satisfied
with the instructions or drawings but the ones on Jim's list are the ones he did
shortly before he lost his battle with cancer. I previously posted how to build
these traps but it is now snake season in the south and if you use one of these
traps the following is a list of things to expect.
These are traps and not guards. The mesh acts like a gill net and once the snake
enters the mesh he seldom ever escapes! You probably should use these traps
above the stovepipe predator guard that Ron Kingston has been using to cut down
or possibly eliminate catching snakes. These traps run about 50
cents a piece to make.
In our area we catch 70% black rat snakes, 15% speckled kingsnakes,15% eastern
coach whip snakes. This varies from year to year but any climbing snake in your
area could be caught. If you have endangered species of snakes in your area be
SURE to use a guard also!
You will catch more snakes with boxes mounted in or along fence lines,
especially if there is a rodent run in the weeds under the wire. Although
research shows rat snakes feed mostly at night we have caught snakes at all
times of the day. A snake will perish in a few hours hanging in the hot sun.
We recommend only using the traps on active nests but you may want to keep them
on all of your yard boxes to see if you have a snake problem. Snakes
should be cut loose with a pair of scissors when they are found alive. If
bluebirds have eggs and you do not remove the dead snake hanging under the box
they will often abandon the nest! If they have young over a few days old about
50% of the bluebirds will continue feeding their young even with a dead snake
hanging under the box. (Even if it is still alive they will sometimes continue
feeding.) You should plan on losing some of the eggs or young if you catch a
snake in the trap. Remember that if you didn't use the trap you probably would
have lost them anyway and maybe the adults!
If you catch one snake be sure to check closely the next couple of days because
often you will catch 23 more snakes in the next few days if the first was a
female snake in their mating season. Male snakes will follow scent trails left
by the female.
Be sure to use this trap on all Purple Martin colonies! I use the trap about 10'
off of the ground and have caught a snake climbing slick 1&1/4"
&1" water pipe at this height in a closely mowed yard with the nearest
tree or bush over 100' away.
When used where cattle can reach the trap they will sometimes chew the mesh and
leave the trap balled up and useless.
If you haven't checked your trail in a while and find a dead dried up snake it
is easier to break it into pieces and pull them out of the mesh.
I have caught snakes as small as 24" and over 84" long in these traps
but we have also found where smaller snakes actually shed their skins as they
went through the mesh. One 14" long rat snake at my house went through (or
over the mesh) ate two Carolina wrens and left two others unharmed in the nest
and was found sunning itself on an extension arm holding a feeder tray off of
the back of the nestbox. This may account for some of the young birds or eggs
that simply "disappear" during the year. This snake could have easily
gone through 1/2" hardware cloth before it ate!
In early spring I have found about six snakes over the years patently laying in
empty nestboxes. I feel they had learned that if they waited a cavity nester
would come along and make an easy meal. When I only used small vent slots or
holes for ventilation I often watched bluebirds, chickadees ETC. lean in and out
of the entrance hole several times before entering a box. As a bluebird enters a
nestbox it goes from bright light to a dark box as it blocks all light entering
through the entrance hole. They can't see what is in the bottom of the box. It
can be deadly if they enter a box with flying squirrels or house sparrows
already in the box! In the south this is another reason to have plenty of
ventilation because it also gives extra light! KK
Subj: snakes&sand
Date: 6/4/99 8:12:28 PM Central Daylight Time
From: kridler"at"1Starnet.com (Keith & Sandy Kridler)
Sender: owner-BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Reply-to: kridler"at"1Starnet.com (Keith & Sandy Kridler)
To: BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu (BLUEBIRD-L)
Peter and all about the sand: Jack Finch was testing 4"PVC pipe mounting
poles. He found that some snakes can and will climb this slick pipe to a
72" height or more. He did find that by spreading masonry sand (a water
sieved product for brick layers) that enough of the sand would cling to the
snakes to prevent them from being able to climb this pipe. It did not stop them
from climbing conduit or water pipe as I recall. It worked better if the snake
was damp and the sand was dry. (This is per a conversation with Jack many years
ago!) This exact test would be hard to duplicate on the trail or in your yard.
Jack worked with over 100 black rat snakes for over three years testing nearly
every pole/guard/trap that was ever thought of by the early 80's. He kept them
in a large above ground swimming pool in his back yard. KK
Subj: snakes
& sand/grease & oil
Date: 1/15/00 8:25:42 AM Central Standard Time
From: kridler"at"1starnet.com (Keith & Sandy Kridler)
Sender: owner-BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Reply-to: kridler"at"1starnet.com
To: BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu (BLUEBIRD-L)
Keith Kridler Fabulous answers & discussions on nesting height
questions!!!!!
The sand around the PVC pipe to repel snakes comes from research done by Jack
Finch in Bailey North Carolina with captive black rat snakes. He found
that they could cross/climb PVC pipe from 1/2" up to 6" diameter
(anything larger is cost prohibitive for poles). Except when placing a ring of
sharp, water sieved brick/masonry sand 36" in diameter around the pole the
snake picked up enough of the sand in it's scales that it could not climb the
PVC pipe. The snakes had no trouble crossing the sand. This information is not
real helpful to the average bluebird trail operator but those near sandy beaches
might benefit. I don't think sand is a good substitute for the Harry Krueger
snake trap or Ron Kingston's predator guard but kept brushed smooth, sand is a
good indicator of predators walking up to your nest boxes!
It is combinations of sand/grease ETC. used with a "guard" that even
allow you to know that you have a predator near you. Harry Krueger used 40"
long
pieces of 4" PVC pipe (spray painted green, very smooth) slipped over all
his pipe mounting poles and credited this with his lack of 'coon predation
until a freak series of events. Along his trail varsol (solvent for softening
asphalt between old layers before applying a new layer) was sprayed on a road
and some drifted into the roadside grass. Enough that a raccoon walking up to
Harry's box was coated with solvent. It left wet prints in the painted PVC all
the way up to the box and on the roof and sides. Interestingly it never slipped
and my slides clearly show that the raccoon simply placed it's "hands"
comfortably on the sides of the pipe and with it's back feet pointing straight
up the pipe simply walked up the pipe with each print about 8" from the
last. If you duck walked the top of a 12" pipe laying on the ground and
used your hands to steady yourself along the sides of the pipe you would leave
prints just like the raccoon did! It
jumped off the box to reach the ground instead of climbing back down. Box top
was under 5'6" off the ground. The box was empty and only a few hairs were
still clinging to the box so we will never know if a bluebird had been nesting
would it have been pulled through his 1&3/4" thick entrance hole &
with the 7" deep box. How many of our boxes get checked out every night
with no clue's left for us to see??? KK
Subj: snakes & fledgling numbers
Date: 1/25/00 7:15:54 AM Central Standard Time
From: kridler"at"1starnet.com (Keith & Sandy Kridler)
Sender: owner-BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Reply-to: kridler"at"1starnet.com
To: BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu (BLUEBIRD-L)
Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas
If you have the black rat snake, eastern or western coachwhips or speckled
kingsnakes you will have a problem with them eating bluebirds from boxes. In
other parts of the country you can add other types of snakes. Research shows
that black rat snakes feed mostly at night. I think they feed non stop!!! While
digging through bluebird stuff last night I found an article written about me by
Steve Blow a columnist for the Dallas Morning News. It is dated May 29, 1989 an
interview I wish had turned out differently....
We had only been using the Harry Krueger snake traps for a couple of years then
and I got up at 6 am and drove a 30 mile loop of about 65 nest boxes before work
so there wouldn't be any unpleasant surprises hanging in a trap....I wanted this
to be about bluebirds and not snakes....I located all the boxes of interest so
that about 6 stops could show all aspects of "bluebird trail" life
including Flying Squirrels and Chickadee's ETC. Towards the end of the trip I
found a freshly killed snake in a trap. (Home owner had used a machete.) I
decided to leave this to show how well the snake trap worked and one of the
problems of being a bird.
Well I worked all day and Steve showed up at about 5 PM and within 2 miles we
encountered a very angry snake trapped under a nestbox. After I quickly cut it
loose and released it I then found out that Steve is DEATHLY afraid of snakes...
Another 2 miles and another snake..... The interview is changing....4 miles
later Steve see's the next snake first! By now he wants to know if I had talked
to anyone at the "News" and thinks that this is a set up deal from his
co-workers.....Ten miles of talking and showing eggs, babies and the why's of
bluebirding and he is still unconvinced.....As we are nearing the end of the
trail and the known caught snake in a trap I point out an interesting view
across the road from the snake hoping to drive past, when Steve say's "I
already saw the snake!!!!" Well not only was the dead snake there but
another was trapped trying to mate with the dead one! And there was a big one
laying in the grass by the pole just inches from my toe.... Instinctively I
caught it on the toe of my shoe and pitched it, all 5 feet of coiling black
rope, about 20 feet, nearly the same distance Steve jumped when he saw the snake
first!!! By the time the snake hit the ground Steve was sliding across the hood
of his car 50 feet away. That was the end of the trail stops.....Very quiet
drive back into town.... Sandy will scan that "Bluebird" article in
today for those of you interested send a private e-mail. But this only points
out that I trapped more snakes in a 10 hour period during a summer day than I
had ever found in or on nestboxes in the previous 20 years!!! My records show I
only used 49 snake traps on over 300 nestboxes that year. Within 10 hours of a
nestbox check up, right at 10% of these boxes would have been cleaned out by a
snake in a time period that "research" shows to be the lightest
predation time of the black rat snake.
Go to Jim
McLochlin's web page and look at the plans of the snake trap and even if you
have guards, grease, slick metal pipe place one on the pole just under the
nestbox, especially Purple Martin poles! If you have a snake proof pole system
I'll bet a rat snake can prove you wrong if you will add the Harry Krueger snake
trap to the pole! KK
Subj: Snakes
Date: 1/25/00 4:08:23 PM Central Standard Time
From: WAGould"at"aol.com
Sender: owner-BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Reply-to: WAGould"at"aol.com
To: BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Just a reminder that their is a natural balance in nature and that snakes also
play an important role within this balance. Man is the only one who has ever
interfered, ever!
BNA
Bluebirds in Nashville Again!
Bill Gould
(615) 726-2743
(615) 726-8545 - fax
Eastern Bluebird Recovery Society of Middle Tennessee
USDA Zone 6B
http://nashville.neighborhoodlink.com/public/genpage.html?nid=920892120&nneigh
id=354070209&nsupercity=694865891
Subj: Seeing things
Date: 1/28/00 6:41:19 PM Central Standard Time
From: springer"at"alltel.net (Gary Springer)
Sender: owner-BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Reply-to: springer"at"alltel.net
To: BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu (BLUEBIRD-L)
CC: springer"at"alltel.net (Gary Springer)
Has anyone ever actually seen a snake in the wild eat a mouse, bird, grass
hopper, another snake or anything else?
Gary Springer
Subj: Re seeing things
Date: 1/28/00 8:07:42 PM Central Standard Time
From: pinecrestfarm"at"earthlink.net (Ruth Edwards)
Sender: owner-BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Reply-to: pinecrestfarm"at"earthlink.net
(Ruth Edwards)
To: BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu (Bluebird)
Gary and all, Yes, in the wild I have seen and photographed a snake catch and
eat a live frog. I noticed the snake first. Then when I saw the frog I watched
to see what would happen and I actually saw the capture and eating. I have seen
it twice, each time with a frog but only had the camera (slide) with me once. I
was in Michigan at the time when I had the camera. The other time was at home in
my back yard. Ruth Edwards, Westport, Ma.
Subj: Re: Seeing things
Date: 1/28/00 8:55:24 PM Central Standard Time
From: ylbordelon"at"juno.com
Sender: owner-BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Reply-to: ylbordelon"at"juno.com
To: BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
When I was a kid in N. Louisiana, my dad & I saw a snake eating a frog.
As an adult in Baton Rouge, we used to raise canaries & on 3 occasions
found snakes (2 speckled kingsnakes & 1 hognose) eating the canaries in the
cages. They got in fine, but were too fat to get out. We didn't kill them, but
caught & released them in the country. In Covington chickadees led me to
their nest which was about 10 feet up in a hole in a tree. A rat snake was
hanging out & munching down on the babies. My husband managed to climb up
and pull the snake out. We've also had rat snakes get into our chimney to try
for the chimney swifts.
Yvonne Bordelon
Covington, LA
cold & rainy 30's
Subj: Re: Seeing things
Date: 1/28/00 9:20:52 PM Central Standard Time
From: bdarnell"at"centurytel.net (Bill Darnell)
Sender: owner-BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Reply-to: bdarnell"at"centurytel.net
To: springer"at"alltel.net, BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu (BLUEBIRD-L)
CC: springer"at"alltel.net (Gary Springer)
Yes! I saw a copperhead with a frog half swallowed. I happened up on a what we
called a "chicken snake" with a chicken egg almost down. I found a
larger version of the same snake almost in a screech owl box, that is, about 1/3
of the snake still outside the box. He measured six (almost) feet by the time I
pulled him out of the box and beat him to death against the tree.
Bet I will recall more. Why??
Bill
Snowy Savannah, TN
...
Subj: Seeing snakes eat prey
Date: 1/28/00 10:20:49 PM Central Standard Time
From: TARYNTYLER"at"worldnet.att.net (Pam Hatcher)
Sender: owner-BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Reply-to: TARYNTYLER"at"worldnet.att.net
To: BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu (BLUEBIRD-L)
I have added 3 posts in one evening after I thought I would never have anything
to contribute to this list.
1st thanks for the private Messages sent by
several of you welcoming me to this list and encouraging me.
2nd
We spend quite a bit of time at Ky Lake and MANY times have pulled out a
stringer of fish to find a copperhead snake who had eaten a fish stuck on the
stringer. Often they can "spit" the fish back out and that is when you
have to be careful because then they are frightened and come after what ever is
closest.
Once in shallow water we witnessed a snake captured, kill and eat a small
bluegill. This was a copperhead at Ky Lake also. I have always been told snakes
can not bite you under water or they will drown....well the LAST trip I made to
Ky Lake was when I saw this copperhead bite and kill this fish underwater.
I camp in hotel rooms now and if I want to "ruff it" for the weekend I
stay somewhere that does not have room service!
My bluebirds have been gone for 4 days and today I found Cardinal feathers from
where my neighbors cat visited recently.
Pam Hatcher
Rockvale, TN
Subj: Re:
Seeing things
Date: 1/28/00 10:29:37 PM Central Standard Time
From: koby_2004"at"yahoo.com (Koby Prater)
Sender: owner-BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Reply-to: koby_2004"at"yahoo.com
To: bluebird-l"at"cornell.edu
Yes! I heard a noise. I saw a snake with a frog halfway in its mouth. I was only
ten so I hollered at my neighbor he came and killed the "small" snake
and
freed the frog.
...
Subj: Re: seeing things :-(
Date: 1/29/00 8:29:04 AM Central Standard Time
From: kridler"at"1starnet.com (Keith & Sandy Kridler)
Sender: owner-BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Reply-to: kridler"at"1starnet.com
To: BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu (BLUEBIRD-L)
Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas
Snakes when eating frogs are easy to find. A frog or toad will inflate their
body with air to try to slow the snake down from swallowing it. They hold their
breath as long as they can and then let out a horrendous squeal. This warns
other frogs and they immediately take another breath. We have a lot of green
tree frogs in this area and on about 6 occasions my brother and I have found the
green grass snakes feeding on these tiny frogs. Yes I have caught snakes eating
our chicks, chicken eggs, white turtle doves & ring neck doves, Purple
martins, Great crested fly catchers, fish ETC. but never an insect! Insects
don't make much noise and the other experiences have been called to my attention
by the commotion other birds or animals have alerted me to.
In warm weather a rat snake (4-6 feet long) can eat 3-4 1 day old broiler chicks
every day. Jack Finch would feed over 100 chicks a day to his test snakes. Some
were hogs and would eat 6 or more chicks a day if allowed to. Snakes will climb
a metal Tee post by going straight up the post in the V and not wrap around it
at all. They will climb wood power poles also by climbing straight up and not
wrapping around the pole. On two occasions I have found snakes that were in the
nestbox that had killed and eaten three bluebirds killed the fourth bluebird and
the fifth baby was still alive. The eaten bluebirds were about 8" apart in
the snakes body. These snakes were 45"-56" long.
At another box a larger snake was hanging out of the box but had killed all five
bluebirds ready to fledge but had not eaten any of them yet. Being very large
birds and active with no other entrance hole to leave from the snake had simply
killed all of them by biting them. Would this snake have been smart enough to
have pulled the baby birds out of the box before eating them one by one? Or
would it have swallowed them in the box and then have to enter the box to digest
them for a 24 hour period.
During very cool spring weather I have found two snakes coiled in empty
nestboxes sitting with their heads just inches from the entrance hole. Any
cavity nesting bird would become instant snake food upon entering. Is this why
cavity nesting birds seem like they cannot enter a nestbox during the first
inspection? They lean in and out, in and out several times before entering.
Often they simply fly up to the roof and may take 10 minutes or more to enter a
box! How often do they encounter snakes in natural cavities?
I watched a male
house sparrow doing this very same inspection routine last week in my Starling
trap box with only a 1&3/4" hole and no ventilation slots for other
light. As the sparrow blocked the entrance hole he would immediately back out.
He took so long to enter I had to warm up my cup of coffee again!!
There is a formula that if you see one mouse during the day you actually have X
number of them and I believe this applies to snakes and other predators! If you
hear about one cat, starling, coon, ETC killing birds you have LOTS of others
that you will never suspect. KK
Subj: Seeing things
Date: 1/30/00 11:37:02 AM Central Standard Time
From: Warbler5"at"aol.com
Sender: owner-BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Reply-to: Warbler5"at"aol.com
To: springer"at"alltel.net, BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Gary (and the group),
My most memorable (fond?) of finding a snake eating another creature in the wild
was one day when I was fishing up in Lake County (in California). I had a couple
trout on a stringer, and caught another one to be added. As I approached the
stringer, I found a large garter snake with one of my fish half swallowed.
Imagine his surprise when he tried to swim away with "his" prey, whose
chin end was attaced to a metal chain!!!! After a lot of thrashing around, he
managed to dislodge the fish from his throat/mouth/stomach.
I have also encountered gopher snakes consuming rodents. Likewise, I have
observed hawks consuming large snakes!
Maybe snakes are more of a problem in other parts of the county....I don't even
worry about them! There are enough ground-nesting birds, rodents, and
other reptiles around that snakes don't need to bother with nestboxes, I guess.
Dee Warenycia
Roseville, CA
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 06:27:54 -0500
From: "Gary Springer" springer"at"alltel.net
To: "BLUEBIRD-L" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu, walshaw"at"gte.net
Cc: "Gary Springer" springer"at"alltel.net
Subject: Re: General Bluebird Info - Tulsa, OK area
Dear Bluebird Bob,
Welcome to the list.
Thank you for the excellent information packed post.
Please keep them coming!
Most of the information applies to Georgia as well.
In addition to all the great information about many aspects of Bluebirding, I
appreciate that you mentioned the beneficial aspects of the snakes which
you release after catching them in the Krueger snake trap.
I've been considering posting my feelings about the Krueger snake trap for
some time now.
I can appreciate the advantages to the Bluebirds of trapping snakes under
nest boxes. But, I can only imagine that many, many snakes are destroyed
intentionally by the monitor, or, die because the monitor fails to release the
trapped snake timely, or, because another predator discovered the trapped snake
and made a meal of it.
I believe snakes rival birds in their importance to natures balance. Rodent
control is a huge problem in many areas and snakes are undoubtedly the most
effective natural curb to run away populations of rodents.
There are laws about trapping just about every type of wild animal there is,
and indeed there should be.
Because of the importance of snakes, and because there are restrictions on
trapping just about every other native species of animal, I am surprised that
the Krueger snake trap has not been outlawed.
I also believe steps should be taken to include snake trapping as a
controlled activity, if not making this trapping completely illegal.
Does anyone else agree?
Gary Springer,
Writing from the foothills of the Appalachian Mountains in Northeast Georgia,
further north than most of South Carolina and a bit of North Carolina
Member NABS, Bluebird Society of Pennsylvania, and Ohio Bluebird Society
www.realbirdhomes.com
----- Original Message -----
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 23:24:56 -0800
From: "R_C Walshaw" walshaw"at"gte.net
To: "Bluebird Listserve" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: General Bluebird Info - Tulsa, OK area
I am new to the mailing list, but not new to bluebirding. Charter member
Oklahoma Bluebird Society, member NABS, member Audubon Society, approved NABS
bluebird speaker (heavy schedule this spring - a labor of love!). Not a trained
birding expert, but a lot of enjoyable hands on experience which I love to pass
on in helping others.
80+ bluebird houses on a trail that has been accepted as part of the new
Transcontinental Bluebird Trail. Raising about 250 bluebirds per year and about
50 each Carolina chickadees and Tufted Titmice. We have no tree swallows in this
area.
I have just reviewed more than 500 emails and have enjoyed the information
and the give and take that has been displayed. I made the following notes as I
read these and although they relate to this area and to my experience they may
help other bluebirders.
In reviewing my notes and trail records of the last three years bluebird
nesting, egg laying and incubation began in the last week of March and the first
week of April. We have had some warmer weather here this winter and I have some
nearly completed bluebird nests and some completed chickadee and titmouse nests.
Also house sparrows have already killed three chickadees and one male bluebird.
I trapped nearly 100 house sparrows on my line last year and more than 10
already this year.(they nest earlier than bluebirds). The Huber traps, a plastic
bag and a quick hand whack is the way to go.
In my speeches I tell people that if they are not willing to monitor their
bluebird houses and to eliminate house sparrows they should not put houses up in
this area as it does more harm than good to the bluebirds. I pass out enlarged
color pictures of pecked to death bluebirds and tell them it is tough love to
eliminate the alien house sparrow! Most bluebirders here kill house sparrows
after their first experiences with them killing fledglings and adult birds.
There is no substitute for going through this experience. Simply taking nests
out just delays the nesting of other cavity nesters and also drives the house
sparrows to harass other bird families. Releasing them in another area is like
releasing your town's murderer in another city.
Regarding nestbox identification, I simply use a black magic marker. Also I
draw a 1 and 1/2 inch black circle on each side of the nest box so that what
appears to be a cavity can be seen from all directions. I am also having success
with hanging boxes even in the Oklahoma winds. They are very welcome in areas
where the grass is mowed such as golf courses as there are no posts to mow
around.
The easiest and cheapest way to put up boxes where posts are allowed is to
wire them to 7 foot steel barbed wire T posts. This puts them about eye high
which is best. There are also many other options- on yard outdoor light posts,
on barbed wire fences along highways (point the opening down the fence), etc.,
etc. Trees and large wood fence posts are usually a no no as cats and raccoons
climb them easily. There are many other ways to mount them such as on 3/4 inch
galvanized pipe, etc. Many situations work if the nestboxes are monitored
regularly and if the house sparrow problem is addressed promptly and correctly.
How the boxes face is less important than facing them toward short grass feeding
areas such as a lawn or pasture, etc. (not a hayfield).
Many of my nestboxes are by choice located in shady areas under trees, as I
enjoy the chickadees and titmice. These small cavity nesters have only one brood
per year and I find that often my bluebirds will move into these cooler areas
for their second nestings as the weather gets hotter.
Regarding predators, as noted the house sparrows are the worst, but there
also are paper wasps, ants, and blacksnakes. In some areas raccoons are a
problem, but I have not experienced any problems with them. Soap or petroleum
jelly inside the roof of the houses deter paper wasps, and petroleum jelly on
posts will stop ants. The Harry Krueger tutu of garden netting on a post will
catch the black snakes but this should be monitored closely as the birds will
not go into the nest if a snake is in the net. I do not kill the black snakes as
I believe that they help me with my gopher problem. Cats, hawks, and owls can
also be a problem.
As several members noted, the protected brown headed cowbird female is able
to get into bluebird houses, and the wildlife people here look the other way if
we simply throw out their eggs. In open nests they are a deadly enemy to many
small birds as the cowbird chick has a special heel spur that allows it to kick
eggs and baby birds out of nests.
I look forward to more information, and hope that the above may be helpful to
our new bluebirders.
Sincerely,
Bluebird Bob Walshaw
Coweta, Oklahoma
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 12:35:13 -0600
From: "Fread Loane" firefrost2"at"earthlink.net
To: "BLUEBIRD-L" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: REF: Snakes
From times immemorial, most of us are taught that all snakes are bad.
Just as this is a "learned response", it can, with increased
knowledge, be "un-learned". For so many people, both men and women,
snakes present an unreasonable fear. I shudder when I hear "The only good
snake, is a dead snake."
While it is true that there are venomous species, very few of these are
aggressive in nature. Some venomous species, the Eastern Timber Rattlesnake
comes to mind, are actually approaching the rare and endangered species list due
to indescriminate killing. I would further state that many, who greatly fear
snakes, would have trouble properly recognizing these few venomous species in
the wild. Education is the key.
There are few animals so wonderfully adapted to their environment as the
snake. As noted in other posts, they are a very important part of the system of
Checks and Ballances in Nature. As stewards of all creatures, both great and
small, we should educate ourselves on this animal's important role in Nature.
Fread J. Loane
Tulsa, Oklahoma
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 10:45:39 -0600
From: "Claire Meyners"
To:
Subject: Snakes & the Kruger Trap
I have just recently joined this group, and wondered where I can see the Kurger
trap design. I run an 80 nestbox trail at the Missouri Botanical Gardens
Arboretum in Gray Summit, Missouri. Over 70% of our bluebirds were predated by
snakes. We also have a problem with House Wrens (I just can't situate houses far
enough from Cedar trees, fence lines, etc.). Ideally I'd like a trap or guard I
can remove easily to let the snakes have the option of a house wren meal, but
protect the bluebirds when they've managed to snare the box.
Claire
Wildwood, MO
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 19:41:47 -0600
From: "Keith & Sandy Kridler"
To: "BLUEBIRD-L"
Subject: snakes/ Krueger snake trap
Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas
I personally like snakes very much and believe they should be protected from
untimely deaths. I believe the Harry Krueger snake trap is very deadly and very
effective at catching snakes. Used according to directions it is about 95%+
effective at stopping snakes from entering a nestbox. After initial tests in
conjunction with Harry and several other local bluebirders the first year I
really used the trap I used 49 traps and caught 27 snakes. These traps were the
"alternate" style and only used on active nests of native cavity
nesters.
I recommend that these traps be used above the Ron Kingston type guard to
stop most snakes from reaching the trap. I have given these traps to many people
with their own "snake proof" guards to allow them to see that snakes
can easily cross grease, most sheet metal guards and even some commercial
"snake guard" collars. I try to impress upon all who use the trap to
check it regularly and release all snakes. MOST people do hate snakes. This is a
learned reaction from our parents usually! When used on the pole right up under
the box & above the "guard" you will only catch snakes about to
feast on your nesting birds that have learned how to conquer your predator proof
pole/guard combination. Used this way you will only catch climbing snakes
between the size of 24"96" those smaller than this tend to go
through the netting and those bigger tend to go over the netting as they cannot
enter the 3/4" mesh size.
90% of the snakes I have caught on nestbox poles over the past 12 years have
been the black rat snake with the Eastern Coachwhip and Speckled Kingsnake
making up the last 10%. Yes if you catch and kill an endangered snake in one of
these traps you would be subject to federal penalties. Harry got the idea of
using this mesh from his neighbor who covered his strawberry patch with the
Ross's Garden netting to keep the birds out. His neighbor caught more snakes
during one strawberry season than I did all year! This netting left anywhere a
snake can get into it is deadly! 100,000's of gardeners use this every year for
crop covers. A live snake can simply be cut out of the netting with a pair of
scissors but they will die quickly trapped in full sun!
I have always wanted to know what the government wildlife commissions would
advise you to do if you saw an endangered snake just about to eat the young of
and endangered species of bird? If you do a search in the US patent office you
can pull up snake traps patented with similar mesh netting for use on land,
water and various other situations. below is a link to Harry's snake trap plans
on Jim Mclochlin's web pages. Be sure to check out the other
"predator" guards while at this site and be sure to bookmark his site!
It is far and away the best on the web. KK
http://audubon-omaha.org/bbbox/index.htmbbbox/nestbox/hksnake.htm
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 21:01:45 -0800
From: "R_C Walshaw"
To: "Bluebird Listserve"
Subject: Snake question from Claire, Wildwood, MO
Claire asked where she could see the Krueger snake trap. Claire, the updated
version of this trap is simply a skirt (our president calls it a
"tutu") of the plastic garden mesh that is used to cover strawberries,
etc. You simply wire it to the post under the BB house so that it flares out
like a skirt to a width of 12 inches or more. (I use the 3/8 inch mesh openings
- I would like to hear from anyone who feels that another size would be better.
The snakes force themselves into these small openings). Claire, be sure to
monitor these every few hours, as the birds will not go into the BB house if
there is a snake in the net. Hopefully you will be able to release the snakes in
some area where there are no BB houses as snakes are a very positive part of
nature.
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 00:35:37 -0500
From: "Gary Springer" springer"at"alltel.net
To: "BLUEBIRD-L" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Cc: "Gary Springer" springer"at"alltel.net
Subject: Krueger snake trap
Keith wrote;
Snip,
"This netting left anywhere a snake can get into it is deadly! 100,000's
of gardeners use this every year for crop covers. A live snake can simply be cut
out of the netting with a pair of scissors but they will die quickly trapped in
full sun!"
Snip.
Apparently then, if you use this snake trap and don't monitor your nest boxes
every hour or two, you will inadvertently kill snakes.
Does it make sense to kill snakes to save Bluebirds?
Advocating the use of the Krueger snake trap will cause the loss of thousands
of snakes. Do we want to be responsible for this loss?
Given the widespread hate of snakes caused by ignorance, I believe the less
said, or written about this subject, unless it is directed to state wild life
commissions recommending the outlaw of its use, the better.
Gary Springer
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 23:40:01 -0500
From: The Carriers eemmuu"at"att.net
To: bluebird bluebird bluebird-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Snakes & Hawks
Hi all! We had spring for a day here in CT!......60f!
As far as the snake trap goes. Like all traps, it should not be used at all!
The snake is a predator that has a purpose and maintains the balance of nature,
nest boxes or not! We don't trap Raccoons, we prevent them (as best we can) from
getting at our boxes.
We don't trap and kill House wrens, we locate our boxes for maximum usage by
BBs! To trap any indigenous species is a crime! Notice I say indigenous. HOSPs
are not on this protected list, they are introduced aliens! Trapping them is
legal, and being our native fauna hasn't a chance to overcome their attacks and
belligerence, we can trap them..........Ban all traps!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Re: Retail Hawk. This hawk is not a direct threat to small birds. It will
take one occasionally if weak, sick, or not being alert, but their diet is much
more rodent than birds. Feel free to have your boxes as near as you want to
their nests.
Accipitors, such as Sharp-shinned and Coopers hawks, are true hawks, and prey
mainly on birds. They are the ones with the long tails, and are rarely seen
sailing out in the open. They prefer hunting under the cover of woods and bushes
and other cover. Even these bird hawks will not do their food hunting near their
nests. They actually hunt away from their nests. It is thought they do this to
keep from depleting the small bird population near their nests, so it is not
suspected they are nesting there.
Gary:- Keep your sightings coming! About your Chick & Titmouse sighting.
I feel all birds that occupy and call a box their home, will defend it to the
hilt! Confrontations are almost always won by the occupants; and it has a
purpose to help bond the pair to that box. Like all wild creatures, most all
confrontations are not to the death, but to show each other, who wants what the
most. Lets not include the HOSP here though..............
About the Grackle as predator:- Yes, they and Jays, Crows and others prey on
small birds and their eggs and young. They do their major predation on open
nesting birds, and to them, they are the ones to hide from. Our hole nesting
birds-Bluebirds, Chickadees, Woodpeckers Etc., have protection from (most) of
these birds, but the trade off is exposure to ground predators, be it snakes,
coons or other ground creatures. The key here is Making our boxes as safe as we
can, and hopefully having a fledging rate better than the natural. No box is
100% safe!
Sorry for such a long E here......Guess I had a lot to say......Paul from CT
Date: 16 Mar 00 10:58:12 PST
From: Cindy McWilliams mcwillc"at"netscape.net
To: BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Copperhead story
All the talk about snakes -good or bad- reminds me of the day a male Eastern
Bluebird saved us from a lot of hurt last summer. We were sitting at the kitchen
table eating lunch and out of the corner of my eye I saw the BB flying straight
toward the kitchen window. He stopped and hovered about 2 feet from the window
for several seconds (which was only about 3 feet from my face!) and then flew up
and perched on the closest, lowest branch to that area. This seemed most unusual
to us because the BB don't usually get nearly that close to our front porch. He
sat on that branch looking at me and looking down to the area right below the
window (which is right at the foot of our front porch steps), back and forth. I
felt like he was trying to tell me something! When I looked at the foot of the
steps there was a foot long copperhead laying there sunning himself. We will
occasionally see copperheads on our wooded land and are very cautious when we go
out into the 'wild', but we don't normally think about them at the bottom of our
front porch! So we like to say that was the day one of "our" Bluebirds
saved our lives! (when really all he was probably trying to do was get a really
good sized meal!) It is snowing and sleeting like crazy today all over our
flowers and trees here in Kansas. I hope "my" Bluebirds are warm and
cozy. Cindy
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 11:40:14 -0600
From: "Mark Hainds" hainds"at"alaweb.com
To: BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Snake Netting
We have 54 blue bird boxes on our property (Solon Dixon Forestry Education
Center) and gray rat skakes are major predators of both the blue birds and the
chicadees that use these boxes. We have used snake netting in the past to
protect these boxes and it worked very well. We need to know where we can find
some more snake netting. Does anyone know where we can order some snake netting
from?
Mark J. Hainds
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 20:07:18 -0800
From: "R_C Walshaw" walshaw"at"gte.net
To: "Bluebird Listserve" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Snake netting
It is available from any of the Farmer's CO-OPs, do-it- ypurself chains,
garden stores, etc. It is the netting that is used to cover strawberries and
other fruit. I use the 1/2" opening size. It is amazing how larger snakes
can get their heads tangled.
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 20:25:56 -0800
From: "R_C Walshaw" walshaw"at"gte.net
To: "Bluebird Listserve" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Gerald - Snake netting question
The netting just catches the snake. It is important to monitor the net trap
every day (and AM and PM too if possible) as the birds will not enter the
birdhouse if there is a snake in the net. Also in hot weather you don't want a
snake hanging too long in the hot sun. I keep records of snake predation and
only set net traps at those locations where there have been repeats, and I only
set them where and when I can check them often. Black snakes are the problem
here and I let them go away from my trail as we also have serious gopher
problems here too. Bluebird Bob, Eastern Oklahoma.
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 15:15:59 -0500
From: "Jess" jessb"at"afo.net
To: "BLUEBIRD-L" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Fw: Web Site Form
Can anyone help this person?
PLEASE USE THIER E-MAIL ADDRESS :-) which is: tasha100"at"webtv.net
Thanks!
Jess
E-mail: jessb"at"afo.net
Web Site: http://home.afo.net/~bulpitt/
----- Original Message -----
From: bulpitt"at"afo-rs3.afo.net
To: jessb"at"afo.net
Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2000 6:31 PM
Subject: Data posted to form 1 of
http://home.afo.net/~bulpitt/bbcommentfrm.htm
|*******************************************************************************
| E-mail: tasha100"at"webtv.net
| FirstName: jean
| OverallRating: 10
| submit: Send
| Date: 16 Apr 2000
| Time: 18:31:04
|
| UsersMessage:
|
| i would like to know what i can put down or around my bluebird house that will
deter snakes. does sulpher work
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 16:18:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: Barry Whitney barryw"at"therock.mcg.edu
To: Bluebird-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Snakes (fwd)
Thought this might be of interest to some. Responses on the carolinabirds
list have pointed out that snakes deserve their due also.
---------- Forwarded Message ----------
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 22:25:13 -0400
From: Ernest Snavely ka4slq"at"juno.com
To: carolinabirds"at"duke.edu
Subject: Snakes
Two bluebird boxes recenty checked had snakes in them. In the neighbor's box
she looked in and saw the snake, took the box down and tried to shake it out.
Two barely alive chicks fell out but not the snake. I suggested giving the snake
a sqirt of Raid and he gave up and came out. In the box at our Senior Center I
noted that there was no feeding activity so I reached up to feel the nest and
what I felt were not eggs. After a second check I slid the nest out and there
was a beautiful creature almost 3' long coiled up and pretty much asleep. The
nest was a chickadee or titmouse.
Another bird loving neighbor told me that once snakes enter a bluebird box or
a martin house the birds will not use it any more. Same for fire ants. An old
fashioned remedy is to apply turpentine around the post.
Ernest Snavely Loris, SC 29569 843 756 4824
ka4slq"at"juno.com
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 22:14:43 -0400
From: "Fawzi P. Emad femad <at> fpemad <dot> com
To: Bluebird-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Snakes (fwd)
Fawzi Emad, Laytonsville, MD
Thanks Barry, that was interesting about snakes. I generally would not reach
into a nest before first making sure I know what I am about to touch! If the box
is too high, I would use a mirror on a long stem to peak down thru the mirror
into the cavity. If it is eggs, I want to be gentle, if it is a snake, most
likely I don't want to touch... I am still afraid of snakes though I know in MD
there are no poisonous snakes except for a very few copperheads in the southern
parts of the state.
...
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 21:38:55 -0500
From: "Bill Darnell" bdarnel3"at"bellsouth.net
To: femad"at"comcast.net, Bluebird-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Snakes (fwd)
Bill Darnell, Savannah, TN
Lat: 35:18:32.407N
Lon 88:10:31.368W
Ag Zone 7-8
At the risk of starting something, I have a question: Just what are snakes
good for besides eating birds nestlings and eggs?
...
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 23:20:00 EDT
From: "Yvonne L. L. Bordelon" ylbordelon"at"juno.com
To: BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Snakes (fwd)
...
Yvonne & Al Bordelon Covington, LA
Now there you go, opening a big can of worms, so to speak. We all know
that snakes are a very important part of the food chain. They're good for eating
rodents, insects, and the non-poisonous king snake is a very effective predator
of poisonous snakes. Once you get past the heebie-jeebies about snakes, you
realize what interesting creatures they are. It's unfortunate that they also
have an appetite for baby birds & eggs, but nobody's perfect. We must
persevere and
continue to provide non-lethal barriers so they'll go find other prey.
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 23:01:35 -0500
From: "R_C Walshaw" walshaw"at"gte.net
To: "Bluebird Listserve" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Bill - "what are snakes good for?"
Bill asked what snakes are good for. Many things! They eat rats, mice,
gophers, etc., etc. That is like asking what hawks and owls are good for. I am
not being rough in answering the question, but it is important that we all
consider the balance of nature. I have a problem with gophers. They have
cost me more than $500 in the last year in killing rose bushes and cutting the
underground cable to my barn. When I catch a black snake I put it down a gopher
hole! (I would like to know what gophers are good for). I have some effective
methods for fighting them, but my yard is surrounded by 25 acres of pasture that
is full of them and nature abhors a vacuum. Bluebird Bob, NE OK.
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 06:14:19 -0400
From: Dixie Dickinson yankeedixie"at"earthlink.net
To: "Bluebird-L"at"cornell.edu" Bluebird-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re:Snakes
Bill Darnell, Savannah, TN Lat: 35:18:32.407N Lon 88:10:31.368W Ag Zone 7-8
At the risk of starting something, I have a question: Just what are snakes
good for besides eating birds nestlings and eggs?
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Snakes provide very good rodent control....Dixie
--
Dixie Dickinson
A New England Yankee
Have Reverence For Life
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 08:22:20 -0400
From: "Brenda Best" jabbest"at"dreamscape.com
To: ylbordelon"at"juno.com, BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Snakes (fwd)
And on the other hand, snakes are a source of food for those creatures higher
up on the food chain!
Brenda
--
Brenda Best
Durhamville, NY
(between Syracuse and Utica)
jabbest"at"dreamscape.com
The Nature Club of Central New York
http://natureclubofcny.8m.com/
...
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 06:02:19 -0700
From: "Joanne H. Powell" jhpowell"at"iea.com
To: bdarnel3"at"bellsouth.net, femad"at"comcast.net,
Bluebird-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Snakes (fwd)
Good morning:
Snakes eat lots and lots of rodents, which helps keep down diseases carried
by the critters. They can be very helpful to farmers by protecting crops
from being eaten and/or contaminated by droppings. The same goes for a person
who only has a horse or two, or a cattle rancher. The damage caused by rodents
in the feed can run into quite a bit of money. Not to mention chewing through
wires; it may kill it but you still have to be out there
trying to repair/replace the wiring! Snakes are not bad guys...really!
Regards, Joanne
Reardan (Spokane) northeastern WA
mailto: jhpowell"at"iea.com
...
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 09:36:13 -0400
From: "Fawzi P. Emad femad <at> fpemad <dot> com
To: "bluebird-l" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Snakes (fwd)
Hello Bill and all! I just want to make clear to the group that I like all
animals (including snakes and all birds). My note below was intended only to
protect the person reaching into a nestbox. Before reaching in, I think it is a
good idea to know what you are going to touch. I have a respect for a snake
bite, insect bite or sting, etc. I believe snakes are precious animals, and I
love to observe them any time I see them. Just hoping this will clear my
intention! Thank you...
Fawzi
...
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 20:50:23 -0500
From: "Keith & Sandy Kridler" kridler"at"1starnet.com
To: "BLUEBIRD-L" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: STUPIDITY!
Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant Texas
I walked up to a nest box a couple hours ago and saw that a spider had spun a
web in the entrance hole. I had expected a new bluebird nest but with this I
knew nothing would be in the box. I opened the side and piled up in the front
back corner was a blob with a beady eye watching me! A pencil thin baby black
rat snake was patiently waiting just below the "drive up" window at
the Bluebird diner! I have always wanted to put a snake in a House Sparrow nest
to see how they would react and thought that this was the "perfect"
snake and time to do it! I reached in and grabbed it.... and then it grabbed
me.....I let go of it....it didn't....I did the Buddy Holly (Elvis Presley?)
song Shake Rattle and Roll.... and a now a longer and
thinner snake was somewhere out in the grass (way out there!) trying to explain
to his buddies about the HUGE meal that got away! Seriously folks, this little
snake was (is somewhere) only about 14" long and not much bigger than a
pencil! It has given me a very sore finger! Go ahead and laugh! But just
remember this the next time you go to reach into a nestbox you cannot see in! As
you are slipping your hand into the nest remember this "subject"
heading STUPIDITY! KK
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 23:19:03 -0500
From: "R_C Walshaw" walshaw"at"gte.net
To: "Bluebird Listserve" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: KK - Rat snake bite
That is another reason why I always preach putting nestboxes eye high so you
can see into them before you reach. I know the feeling, Keith. Yesterday I
cornered a three foot black snake in an open pasture and naively thought that I
could put him into a five gallon bucket and relocate him away from my bluebird
line. I got him into the bucket by guiding him with a stick, but when I tipped
the bucket up he came out of it like he was shot from a gun and nearly hit me in
the face. Live and learn! Bluebird Bob. Northeast OK.
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