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Roost Boxes (Part 1)The Bluebird-L Roost Box- this roost box design was developed out of
conversations of members of Bluebird-L, the work of Haleya Priest
and Dan McCue are greatly appreciated.
Subj: Roost box Subj: Re: Roost box Date: 10/26/99 1:23:25 PM Central Daylight Time From: hubertrap"at"webtv.net (Joe Huber) Merlin Wright,s Question on what type box was used for roosting. The one that photos were taken in was simply a larger box about 10"x10" Floor size and deeper than a regular nest box. No vent holes. The first roost box that I tried was one with the entrance hole at the floor and pegs inside as perches. Bluebirds did use this box but there was no evidence that the perching pegs were used. After that a plain square box was used. It is obvious that they all huddle together to keep warm and may even stack on top each other. Maybe the low entrance roost box with pegs inside was designed for other species or was just someone's logical thinking. Joe Huber Venice Fl Subj: Bluebird Roost box Date: 11/3/99 9:01:09 PM Central Standard Time From: springer"at"alltel.net (Gary Springer) ...Regarding roosting boxes: Would those of you who have witnessed, either now or during previous winters, roosting of groups of Bluebirds in a single roosting box or nest box, pleases describe your experience either on or off list? Thank you, Gary Springer Subj: roosting box question Date: 11/4/99 10:59:46 AM Central Standard Time From: hpandtl"at"crocker.com (Haleya Priest/Thom Levy) Haleya Priest Amherst MA Joe Huber - and/ or others - could you describe the dimensions of a good roosting box for bluebirds. Also need where to place hole and also is it good to use dowels or not. And I assume we'd want the box to be wicked airtight. AND: Do any of you simply plug up vents, etc in your nesting boxes so they are good roosting boxes? Why not just do this instead of building whole new roost box. What do you plug with? And what about the little corners cut off on the bottom of the box. How do you plug those up? Subj: Re: roosting box question Date: 11/4/99 2:26:44 PM Central Standard Time From: hubertrap"at"webtv.net (Joe Huber) Hi Haleya, Your question about roosting box dimensions and others can only be answered by personal experience. There is no right or wrong way established. During a period of several years I used three different roost boxes. All attracted Bluebirds to roost in them. These boxes were larger than a nest box and mounted about 8 feet high. All were 8X8" floor size or larger. No vent holes. Roof overhang was adequate to keep weather out. Entrance hole size was 1-3/4" or 2" diam. Yes I did use a 1/2" dowel as a perch. The dowel was long so more than one could use it. Box was placed in a quiet place in yard where no human activity was likely in evenings and at night. In my location it seemed all Starlings had left the area long before Bluebirds came to stay. Starlings head for warm buildings in town when severe weather comes. There were nest boxes still in my yard when these bluebirds came looking for a place to stay. Never once did they stay in a nest box in my yard. They do stay in nest boxes at some locations. Dick Tuttle in Ohio would plug vents on nest boxes during winter just for this reason. You can plug those clipped floor corners with any thing that fits into them. I do believe bluebirds prefer the larger box with larger entrance for roosting. If you are overrun with house sparrows the bluebirds simply will not stay but will move on. Forgot- Entrance hole is best in middle of box not on floor level. Joe Huber Venice From: DAN SPARKS (PAMELA S SPARKS) Sent: Thursday, November 11, 1999 3:58 PM Subject: Re: roosting box question Hi Joe, I have two questions for you: 1. Why do you believe that "bluebirds prefer the larger entrance (1 3/4"--2" diameter) for roosting"? 2. Why do you feel that the "entrance hole is best in middle of box not on floor level"? Thanks, Dan Sparks Brown County Bluebird Society, Nashville, IN... From: Joe Huber Sent: Thursday, November 11, 1999 10:17 PM Subject: Re: Roost box plans Hi Haleya and all, Don't need any dowels inside a Bluebird roost box. They huddle together on the floor. On the outside I've used a 1/2" dowel just below the entrance. The dowel is 6" long or more. The only plans for a roost box that I've ever seen was the one with a floor entrance and dowel perches at various locations inside. That is the first kind that I used. It worked but no birds used the perches. Joe Huber Venice Fl. From: Haleya Priest/Thom Levy What purpose does that serve. Maybe there are no answers than
the BBs simply "prefer" it for roosting, but I am curious.
Plus my hardware store didn't have that size drill bit, so I just
kept to the 1 1/2" assuming it would still work? And
why the bigger box? Just so they can fit more bbs in? Gees, here's
these little nest boxes with 13 bbs inside. I bet they were warmer
than any13 bbs in the larger sized roost boxes. From: Gary Springer Sent: Friday, November 12, 1999 3:46 PM Subject: Re: More roost box Q Dear Haleya, I wrestled with the same questions you have about roosting boxes for quite a while before building my own. Roost box preference is yet another subject about Bluebirds which we apparently know little. Judging by the questions you have, its obvious that you are applying reason and logic, as well as experiences of others to provide the Bluebird the best possible roosting sites for inclement weather. I commend you for this approach. If you continue and experiment with each of the various features, you will eventually learn what the Bluebirds in your area need and prefer. I followed much of Joe Huber's advice because he has a broad knowledge and tremendous amount of first hand experience with Eastern Bluebirds and because he has had the most published success with roost boxes. Regarding the hole location, I agree with you that positioning the hole higher, and near the roof overhang will reduce draft on the bottom of the box where the birds huddle together to share warmth from their bodies as shown in Joe Huber's photographs. Accordingly, I positioned the hole in my roost box near the top of the box. Whoever designed the roost box with the hole in the bottom apparently believed the birds would sit on perches inside the nest box and that to keep them warmer the hole would be best positioned at or near the floor level because warm air rises. Now that we know the birds roost huddled together on the floor, its obvious that the entrance hole belongs in a higher position. Regarding roost box floor area, I agree with you, it does seem the birds would be warmer squeezed into a smaller box. However, it may be that the birds prefer not to roost on top of each other. It appears that more experimentation is needed to draw any conclusions about roost box size. Regarding hole size, I did follow Joe's advice. Although I thought I was drilling an inch and 3/4 hole, I wasn't careful and selected a 2 inch bit. So mine is two inches. I have no starlings or house sparrows here, and even if I did, I don't think they're a factor when it comes to winter roosting. I plan on reducing the hole size by attaching a wooden plate with the smaller hole after Bluebirds begin to use it for roosting to see if they accept the smaller hole. When installing roost boxes, there is one recommendation I believe should be followed invariably. That is to mount it on a metal pole at least 10 feet high. I hate to see Bluebird nest attempts fail just because a nest box is not properly mounted. It is much more dreadful to think of losing 10 to 20 mature Bluebirds in a single night. A telescoping pole to achieve this height is easy to assemble from two pieces of pipe of different diameters. I hope this information helps you in your endeavor to help Bluebirds survive in inclement winter weather. I will be experimenting with roost boxes as well. I believe it will reduce our learning time if we offer various styled roost boxes simultaneously and in the same area to see which they prefer. I plan to set out at least two more and will post my experiences on list. I hope anyone who has experiences with Bluebird roosting or roost box development will also post so we can answer Haleya's questions and help save Bluebirds from loss during extremely cold weather. Truly, Gary Springer NE Georgia ... From: Joe Huber Sent: Friday, November 12, 1999 9:55 PM Subject: Re: More roost box Q Hi all, Believe Gary Springer has posted the answers to most questions about roost boxes. I believe the entrance hole should be 6" to 8" above the floor to get birds out of any draft and out of reach of predators. They will however roost in a box with the entrance at other locations. My idea of the larger entrance size is to make it easier for them to go in and out. In case of ice or snow collecting in entrance there is some extra room. You can use a standard entrance size. No dowels are needed any where but at the entrance they sometimes gather 3-4 at a time. Bluebirds do use nest boxes at times for roosts but my own experience shows they prefer a larger box. This one box has a lot at risk so it should be mounted higher up for safety. Any quiet area with little activity from people or any thing else is best for location. My roost box was not put up until late Nov or even Dec. You may not have seen any Bluebirds recently but they are out there some where. They show up when it gets really bad out. Some times using the roost didn't start until in early Jan when a sub zero front came in. Read over Garys last post if there are questions because he covered it very well. Joe Huber Venice Fl. From: Haleya Priest/Thom Levy Sent: Saturday, November 13, 1999 8:00 AM Subject: Last roost box Qs Haleya Priest Amherst MA Joe, Gary, et al, I understand that much of this is personal pref, but I am also wondering with "Tater2" why the higher box dimensions. I built mine with the larger floor space as Joe suggested since he finds that bluebirds roost on the floor - but NOT higher in height - than the NABS approved box. I would think that more height would just mean more loss of body heat. Just one other thing and LAST thing - if I don't drive everyone nuts first - both Joe and Gary (and others ?) are saying to mount the box up high. I will trust your judgment on this in the end- but: do you simply find it easier to mount it so high (8-10') rather than just put predator guards up when mounting it at a lower height/ even at say 6 ft? Aren't predator guards enough? Please bear in mind this is NOT a trivial question. Honest. H From: Keith & Sandy Kridler Sent: Saturday, November 13, 1999 10:00 AM Subject: Re: roost box/predator guard/white BB Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant Texas The famous Eastern Bluebird pictures taken by Michael Smith of the "Mad Bluebird" and his shot of all the roosting bluebirds were taken in the late 1970's. I believe you can barely count parts of nine different bluebirds in a "normal" 16 Sq. inch nestbox. (4"x4") but he counted 13 using that box every night. I talked to Michael over the phone once about his shots. The shot was taken on a night when it was -20*F. The "Mad Bluebird" sitting on the fence post wasn't mad at all it was cold and had fluffed up to conserve body heat during the day in this extreme cold weather. When Joe and Gary mention building a bigger box this is to allow for the whole family to roost shoulder to shoulder and not be three deep in the box. This will help the bottom birds stay cleaner since they will not be getting covered with bird droppings. We have to remember that these birds now have winter coats! They are quite capable of surviving all day in real blizzards and I believe that the only reason they retreat to "roost" boxes is for the relative safety from predators, both climbing and those with feathers. Screech owls and their cousins are very adept at finding birds roosting. I just worked on a two story house this week and found owl "pellets" and remains of a freshly killed male cardinal under a roof dormer. DO NOT forget rats as climbing predators! Norway and the "Pack rat" of the southern states are climbing meat eaters and kill birds often. Squirrels, can a red squirrel of northern areas enter a 2" entrance hole? If so be sure to have a guard to exclude them since they would kill birds when we lived in Ohio. Flying Squirrels, I have had reports off list from California, Ohio, Michigan, Rhode Island and most states south of them that they have these squirrels. These are night time predators! I have found them eating bluebirds on several occasions! Place roost boxes where these squirrels cannot "fly" to them. Weasels have been found in nestboxes. I just had a lady tell me that her cat caught a bluebird as it was entering her box this summer. The bluebird had it's head in the box feeding the young and the cat jumped up and snagged it. The entrance hole was 84" off of the ground! Larger hole: Bluebirds seem to prefer this! This to me is common sense! Like most birds Bluebirds are at the bottom of the food chain. If there is something in that box, odds are it would be fatal to just hop on in. I believe they want to be able to see the bottom of the box before they enter. Although the larger hole is OK with all the precautions Gary is taking I would prefer the two holed "normal" sized entrance that Linda V. & Dick P. are using in California. This would give the birds a window to let in light while they have the doorway plugged as they enter. Lets experiment a little and then convert the "roosting" boxes into flicker nestboxes next spring or starling trap boxes. KK From: Joe Huber Sent: Saturday, November 13, 1999 12:59 PM Subject: Re: Last roost box Qs Hi Haleya And all, Believe your question on some post about a very tall roost was a mistake. I never picked that up in any of the posts. A normal proportioned box is all that's required. About mounting the box higher: Normal predator guards may be ok to protect the box. There is a possibility that snow and ice could collect on guards making the box accessible. We need to learn more about that. The extra height is just a precaution to be on the safe side. In some areas lower mounting may be perfectly safe. We do know that Bluebirds use nest boxes in some locations for roosting during winter months. Joe Huber Venice Fl. From: Gary Springer Sent: Saturday, November 13, 1999 4:31 PM Subject: Roost box height Dear Haleya and all, In an earlier post I indicated that I feel a roost box should be mounted on a metal post at least ten feet high. The concern I have for predation is only one of the reasons I believe the higher mount is best. A second is the Bluebirds concern for predation. These birds are intelligent and they may feel more secure when roosting further off the ground. A roost box thus positioned may be more successful in attracting these birds. I believe the extra height could be a factor in success in attracting Bluebirds to your roost box because not only did Joe Huber have roosting success at higher elevations, but also, I know a fellow in an industrial park near Atlanta, Georgia that has several nest boxes in the vicinity of his business. Two of his many nest boxes are mounted on the same telephone pole. One at a height of 6 feet and the second at about 20 feet. I visited his shop on a mild day in February, high day time temperature of about 55 degrees F. As evening approached, about 5 or 6 Bluebirds gathered on the power lines beside the pole. He told me that they regularly roost in the highest box and that none of the other nest boxes are used for roosting. There is a telephone pole on my property which Bluebirds frequent and which I considered using to duplicate the above roosting experience. I elected instead to not only mount the roost box on a metal pole to protect the birds from many types of predators, but also to avoid the area of the utility pole altogether, because, as Keith Kridler warned, flying squirrels are a potential threat. I say potential because I have had flying squirrels nesting in a box within 15 feet of a Bluebird box that fledged successfully with no interference. I love these easily tamed flying squirrels and have several which watch me work from the rafters as I work in my shop on winter nights. Although its obvious flying squirrels have the ability to land on and enter nest boxes, and despite the huge population of these wonderful animals on my property, they nor any other animals have ever interfered with any nest boxes on greased metal poles. However, because I am just not willing to take a chance with a roost box in which so many mature, ready to breed, adults could be lost, I positioned the roost box high enough and far enough from trees to avoid this risk. It was a difficult decision to make because I believe Bluebirds like to gather on nearby perches provided by the power lines as they gather before entering the roost box in the evening. That is why I do plan to add a long wooden perch as described by Joe Huber. Haleya, regarding your question of whether or not another type of predator guard would work, not only do I believe you would have more success attracting the birds with a tall pole for the reason explained above, but also, Keith Kridler's last post in which he cited another's witness of a cat jumping 84 inches to nab a Bluebird off a nest box speaks for itself. I hope this information helps you with your roost box project. Sincerely,Gary Springer From: dean sheldon 1. In the woods, where most of the EABL spend the winter, they are constantly searching out and using natural cavities in trees which are usually [except for Pileateds which drill holes at almost any height] higher up on the branches where knotholes have been worked out by the woodpeckers...so the EABL are used to roosting at higher locations; and 2. You are not going to monitor the roosting boxes anyway, so why worry about accessibility? You can always get a ladder to clean out the roost boxes after the birds have finished using those boxes in the spring. You've sure had a lot of good help during this project and I doubt that many people would have spent as much time as you have in gathering good information upon which your good decision has been made. Nice going....Dean From: Joe Huber Sent: Saturday, November 13, 1999 10:43 PM Subject: Re: 20 in a box was Re: (no subject) Hello all, Never have found any dead Bluebirds in a roost box. Had one get wing feathers frozen to floor and struggled about 10 minutes before getting free. Lost two wing feathers in the process. One time I did find 1 dead Bluebird in a nest box where it had been roosting. This was in a neighbors yard where the box wasn't inspected until spring. There were droppings in the box that indicated this box was well used for roosting. Birds do die so finding one in a box is expected especially with their short life span. Winter is a cruel time for any wildlife. From: Linda Violett Sent: Saturday, November 13, 1999 11:07 PM Subject: Roosting Boxes Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. It's been interesting to read the recommendations for roosting boxes, including: Higher to keep them away from predators. Deeper to keep them out of the reach of predators. Guards added for protection from predators. Larger so the bottom birds don't get pooped on. Possibly 2-holes for a light source at one hole while entering the other hole. All these advantages recommended for the roosting adult bluebirds can and should be provided during nesting season. Visit: http://home.earthlink.net/~lviolett From: Haleya Priest/Thom Levy Sent: Sunday, November 14, 1999 10:00 AM Subject: Thanks I do believe I've got the "ins and outs" on roost boxes - finally! Thank you Joe, Gary, Linda, Dean, Bruce, and so many others who have patiently answered my incezzznt questions..... It sounds like we've managed to spread a little roost box fever between us all. I Look forward to hearing reports from everyone about roosting throughout the winter. Happy Blue Trails :-) H From: KCBSP Would anyone share their experience with this. Saw that some leave
them in place all year just as the ones on the posts. From: Linda Violett Sent: Monday, November 15, 1999 9:25 PM Subject: Re: Hanging boxes as roost boxes/Gibertson hanging boxes Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. Kathy asked about hanging PVC boxes as an alternative to large hanging wooden boxes. The PVC Gilbertson's is made, I believe from 4" drain pipe. Our western blues have 5 and sometimes 6 nestlings so I wanted a larger floor, (plus it takes about 6" to get 2 entrance holes to fit on the face of the box). As Kathy mentions, the larger hanging wooden boxes get upwards to 5lbs . . . I've also been looking for alternatives. Bob Wilson's double-walled PVC fence material looks like a real good option so I kept his web address handy (see below). His box has a 6"x6" floor space and the double wall provides insulation (we could even add styrofoam or other insulation material in the wall space, I'd imagine). If Bob is reading the List, may he can let us the weight of the boxes? and would they be adaptable for hanging? Camoflage ideas? http://www.crosswinds.net/~bluebirdbob/... Subj: 20 in a box was Re: (no subject) Date: 11/13/99 6:35:39 PM Central Standard Time From: bags"at"erols.com (David A. Bagley) Hi Joe, Have you (or anyone else) ever heard of any bird on the bottom of that many birds suffocating? I read a post a few months back (maybe on a different bluebird forum) where someone had a dead bluebird in the bottom of a box that they knew had been used by a large group roosting in there the night before. It could have been a coincidence, how would we even know for sure? Dave Bagley Maryland... Subj: bb's & roosting Date: 11/13/99 9:31:22 PM Central Standard Time From: bakerbon"at"sni.net (Bonnie/Ed Baker) Ok ok ok ok, I've also been reading with interest all the emails re: EABLs' use of roosting boxes. Has anyone seen Mt BB's using them? I've not seen any in this area. . . Bonnie Boex 9,000 ft Dillon, CO Subj: Re: bb's & roosting Date: 11/13/99 10:03:32 PM Central Standard Time From: hubertrap"at"webtv.net (Joe Huber) Hello Bonnie, Hope we haven't driven all you people nuts in Mountain & Western Bluebird territory. I would guess that the mountain Bluebird would use a roost box but where to locate it may be a problem. The Eastern Bluebird nests in back yards where they are easily seen. Still the majority of bluebirders haven't seen any. Checking nest boxes in spring can tell if any boxes are being used. The bottom will be covered with powdery grey stuff full of small seeds. There is some form of wild fruit or berry they are eating during cold weather. These seeds will tell you what they are finding to eat. The Mountain Bluebird may change locations of feeding during winter. They will go near where the supply is. Believe people have reported Western Bluebirds using boxes to roost in. Most are in more milder climates. Maybe you will get some reports from others. Joe Huber Venice Fl Subj: dead bluebird Date: 11/14/99 12:31:59 PM Central Standard Time From: racheldan1"at"compuserve.com (Dan & Rachel Thomas) Dan Thomas Lancaster PA While hiking yestereday I came across a bb box (NABS style) which was put up last spring, located along a rural road. I'm not sure who monitors the box, but being curious I decided to look in the box. To my surprise it contained a "dead" adult bluebird. There was nothing else in the box except alot of short bb feathers. Looks like he might have put up a fight, possibly being trapped in the box, due to all the loose feathers. All the talk lately on the list about roosting, could have this bird suffocated????????? We have not had any real cold weather yet in PA. Just curious about what could have caused the death. I inspected the bird (visually) and it did not seem to have been injured in any way. Subj: Re: dead bluebird Date: 11/14/99 8:04:18 PM Central Standard Time From: hubertrap"at"webtv.net (Joe Huber) Hello Dan, Finding a dead bluebird in a nest box this time of year is not likely due to smothering while roosting. I doubt if any Bluebirds have resorted to using a box for roosting this early. In Ohio they never came to use a roost until it got near zero and even then it was generally the second night that cold. Since this is not one of your boxes there is no sure way to determine what happened. If these birds were smothering in a roost it wouldn't matter if it was a tree cavity or roost box. Subj: Re: dead bluebird Date: 11/15/99 6:54:51 AM Central Standard Time From: jabbest"at"dreamscape.com (Brenda and/or John Best) Dan, I think there are several possible explanations for what you found. The bluebird could have been sick, or poisoned, or even just old. The loose feathers may have occurred post-mortem, possibly by a rodent looking for a place to nest. It's also possible, if the dead bird was dry, that it had been there since spring. We found a dead hummingbird in my son's playhouse during the summer, and have kept it on the back porch since. It has remained unspoiled for months. Brenda Best Durhamville, NY Subj: Re: Hanging boxes as roost boxes/Gibertson hanging boxes Date: 11/16/99 12:28:54 PM Central Standard Time From: springer"at"alltel.net (Gary Springer) Dear Linda, I have no first hand experience with hanging boxes but it seems to me that if you make the box lighter, it will sway or even flail violently in wind storm conditions. Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the reason a lighter hanging nest box is desired is so that it is easier to maneuver into place when hanging. It appears to me that you could make the pole attachment used to place the nest box in trees much lighter by eliminating the wooden cradle in which the nest box sets. If the lifting pole was connected directly to the nest box , instead of using a cradle, installation would require less effort and you wouldn't have to give up the stabilization effect of the heavier nest box. Just a thought, Gary ... Subj: Re: Roost Box height Date: 11/16/99 4:59:56 PM Central Standard Time From: springer"at"alltel.net (Gary Springer) Dear Pam or Dan, (Sorry, but I'm not sure which of you posted the roost box monitoring advice) Please tell us more about your roost box experiences, i.e.: size, entrance hole, mounting height, frequency of use, other species using them, etc.,etc.. and, anything else you discovered that interested you or that youfound unusual. Anything you can add will be greatly appreciated. Very truly, Gary Springer PS With telescoping poles monitoring isn't that difficult, even for a box mounted 14 feet high. Also, How often do you recommend monitoring roost boxes?... Subj: Re: Hanging boxes as roost boxes/Gibertson hanging boxes Date: 11/16/99 8:44:38 PM Central Standard Time From: lviolett"at"earthlink.net (Linda Violett) Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. Gary, you are correct in guessing my concerns about the box weight is maneauvering it up to and down from the branch. Hanging boxes take more balance, than strength but if a balance correction is needed, the lighter boxes are easier to work with. Hanging boxes are surprisingly stable even in strong winds. Here in Yorba Linda, we are located near canyons which sustain heavy seasonal fall/winter winds (sometimes 60MPH). For greater strength, I doubled the hanging wire. For more stability, I form the hanger into more of an oval shape instead of an open round shape. For less swing, I shortened the length of the hanger. The stability of the boxes (even in windy conditions) may be due to the shape of the box itself, a long rectangle with a weighted bottom (floor). The lifter box and pole are relatively light but some people hang their boxes up using a pole with a hook on the end. I'm hoping Bob Wilson's PVC fence material box is about 2.5lbs, then the deeper boxes I prefer using would be about 3lbs at most. ... Subj: roosts Date: 11/21/99 11:51:45 AM Central Standard Time From: tater2"at"gateway.net (tater2) Early this year I got some plans off of the net from NABBS and was wondering if a person could just double the size of the floor and end up with a good roost box. Haleya is sending me a set of plans. I don't have them yet, but when I do I will take a look and see how close they are to my idea. If there any changes or new plans that I might come up with, who do I go thru to get approval to put them on the net for others to copy and use. I was out looking at the meteor shower the other night on our side deck. I had put up a quick nesting box in the same area that last years birds nested and heard them rustling around inside, so I hope to have a bigger and better box up soon. Last year they nested in the TV cable junction box right above the main circuit breaker box on the east side of the house. Early this spring I found some scrap wood down in my shed and "threw" together a nesting box (it surely is not a thing of beauty). They went to the new box this spring with no problems and raised two broods. Right now I think there are three or four still around and using the nesting box as a roost. We are in eastern TN (22 miles north of Knoxville) and our weather has been just beautiful and I have seen the BB's around the house and also along the trees in my fence line. I have hay fields in the back, side and front of our place and plan to ask the neighbors if they mind if I put up some nesting boxes this spring along the edge of the fields. Gary in East TN Subj: shelter Date: 12/4/99 12:55:22 PM Central Standard Time From: koby_2004"at"yahoo.com (Koby Prater) Hello everyone from Seneca, MO(southwest corner of MO, 150 miles south of Kansas City. The last couple of nights we have been getting hail and severe thunderstorms and 45 to 50 degree temp. So, my question is where do the bluebirds go in this kind of weather. Usually the storms don't start til about 8:00. Isn't this a little bit too late for the BB's to decide they need to go to a roost box? Thanks Koby Prater Date:
Sat, 5 Feb 2000 09:54:34 -0500 ...Nestbox / roost box? I don't think the two pair of eastern bluebirds mind. I've placed bluebird treat in the nest box all winter long with evidence of some takers. I looked to the nest box and noticed a female eastern bluebird coming out of the box at 8:15AM. The male followed her. A second male followed him. A second female followed him. The four sat in the maple tree 25' away as the children and I took turns with the binoculars. They seem quite healthy. I took some fresh bluebird treat to the box. Bluebird treat was pushed to the four corners of the nest box indicating a winter roost. The 4 bluebirds didn't move as they continued their morning chatter. Their tolerance to humans is incredible. Patty and Terry's post has given me hope. Our $35.00 bluebird feeder has been up over 6 months and has never been visited. I'll give it more time. Randy
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 19:18:15 -0400 From: Haleya Priest/Thom Levy hpandtl"at"crocker.com Subject: POOP + NEST ID Haleya Priest Amherst MA Joe, et al, I have a couple questions - I was out poking around on my trail today and also a friend's trail: 1) Found quite a bit of berry poop in one box. I figured somebody was roosting in there at night, but I didn't think bbs pooped in their roost boxes??? If not, what could it be? It is way out in the open and also has oval hole entrance. 2) Another box (belongs to friend) near the woods (we took it down promptly) was full of chopped up maple or oak leaves mixed with small feathers. Any ideas? No sign of any critters. 3) Another box (on conservation land - 0bviously is NOT monitored) had all sorts of very short grass, some feathers, including those that TRES use, and was very full of hibernating mice. 2 fell out right onto the web of my friend's snowshoe.. They never woke up....... I didn't see ANY sign of bluebird kind of nest material. Any ideas? Thanks in advance.... H
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 23:01:29 -0500 (EST) From: hubertrap"at"webtv.net (Joe Huber) Subject: Re: POOP + NEST ID Joe Huber Venice Fl. Hi Haleya, Yes roosting Bluebirds do leave their droppings in the box they roost in. When you have several birds in one box all night it's bound to make a mess. In the large roost box I used in Ohio there was over 1/2" of powdery seed droppings by spring. You may want to clean it out now since it may not be used any longer this winter. Nesting will start for you soon and you may not want that stuff under the nest. Why not check the droppings for seeds to possibly identify what they have been eating this winter. As for an I.D. of what used the box you can see I've already decided on Bluebirds. Joe ...
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 22:49:28 -0800 From: Hatch Graham birdsfly"at"innercite.com Subject: Re: POOP + NEST ID Hi All: Joe's remarks on the ID of the seeds in the poop remind me of a Senior Problem I did in Forest Ecology at Cal Berkeley in a bygone era. Cedar Waxwings were gobbling up Pyracanthus berries and pooping them all over the sidewalks. I scraped up a batch of the crap, collected handfulls of berries and went to the greenhouse. If memory serves me correctly, there are 4 seeds to the berry. I planted 25 berries (100 seeds) in one flat, removed the pulp and planted 100 seeds in another, and planted 100 seeds that had gone through the birds' gizzards and alimentary canal. No germination from the berries, 2% from the pulped seeds, 25% from the poop. Suggestion: when you clean out the roosting boxes, plant the leavings. Bluebirds or not, someone likes them! Hatch ... Hatch Graham, Editor, Bluebirds Fly! California Bluebird Recovery
Program
Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 11:20:06 EDT From: Dinlows"at"aol.com Subject: Leave box up or take it down? Hi all,
Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 12:26:08 EDT I leave mine up all winter, figuring it's good shelter for the assortment of species in this area. With a few "memorable" exceptions, HOuse SParrows have not been a problem here. (Question of my own now: *Does* anyone know of HOSP attacks in a box during the winter??) If the HOSP are using your boxes during the winter, sounds like you would have good results installing a trap. The only glitch would be the responsibility of checking. Wading through the snow to some of my boxes for trap checks would be a bit hard; even doing the checks on horseback, I'd still have to get off and deal with whatever is in the box! And this is pure guesswork, but timing the setting and checking of a trap might be hard, as well. Probably set the trap before dusk, in order to catch the possible HOSP when they go in to roost for the night? But then one would need to check the trap box at first light, so that native birds could be released for feeding before they suffer ill effects (winter eating habits being as vital as they are in cold weather). If the boxes are close to your house, though, trapping during the winter might be a worthwhile try. Let us know how it works, if you decide to! Rhonda Watts
Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 10:01:03 -0700 Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. Dan, why do you close up your boxes for the winter? Birds along my trail (western blues and woodpeckers) use the boxes all year for roosting and safe havens. The Nuttall woodpeckers have already started their "winter" roosting. Checked a box at dusk yesterday and saw feathers all under the entrance hole on the outside. I got worried and was very cautious on the take down (I use hanging boxes). Something was moving inside (rats?). Put the box on its back (another benefit to hanging boxes) and slid the contents so I could view it through the entrance hole without opening the box. It was a very scared little Nuttall woodpecker. First time I had this happen and wondered if it was sick or injured. When I reached in, it flew out and spent the next several minutes chewing me out....
Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 13:16:30 -0500 Linda - You misunderstood. I didn't mean I seal it up and plug
the entrance hole. I mean close the front and allow whatever
to enter. Bluebirds to roost mainly. I also referred to cleaning
out the winter mess which meant that seed pits and the like.
Some boxes in Feb. have an inch of seed pits and fecal matter
in the bottom of the boxes to clean out before nesting season.
Sorry, I didn't say it the way I meant it. Good point. Dan Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 19:19:28 -0400 Haleya Priest Amherst MA This winter I am going to trap in the boxes that I know HOSP are roosting in. I can tell those boxes because HOSP poop is white and gray and EABL poop is berry blue. I do have to say that I feel awkward about "taking a man when he is down", but I see no alternatives. However, I will use 1 - 3/8" hole restrictor on any of my trap boxes so that I don't catch any EABL. And yes, as someone else mentioned, checking the boxes first thing in the morning is critical and only fair. No animal deserves to suffer. H
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 10:00:51
-0500 If feedmills and other such open
buildings are not available they often roost in thick evergreens
very near to the birdfeeders they fed from all day. If they
have eaten and have dry feathers even extreme cold will not
harm them if they can find a wind break. They have a more efficient
winter coat than the most expensive ski outfit! Dunk a skier
in a frigid mountain stream and a House Sparrow and release
them 10 miles from shelter on a -40*f windy day and which creature
would you bet on surviving! Just because you don't find droppings in the box doesn't mean it is not being used! They don't need these boxes for cold protection but they need a safe place to sleep away from climbing predators, and night hunting owls and even rats. Squirrels will even hunt well after most birds have gone to roost and they enjoy a meat diet also. What better place for your birds to roost than in a box mounted on a metal pipe and protected with a Ron Kingston predator guard??? Entire families are depending on the safety of the mounting pole in winter while summer only their eggs or young and the female depend on it! Taking boxes down to extend their
life is a good reason. I have heard of numerous trail monitors
over the years who had unexpected illnesses or have even died
before spring came and they reinstalled their boxes. Nothing could
be worse than laying in bed looking at the flowers of spring through
the window and thinking about all those boxes piled up in the
garage and hearing bluebirds calling in search of a mate and a
house! Haleya
Priest Amherst MA Linda
Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. Hi Keith, Linda and all, Yesterday I did set up shop to watch the nestbox in which the suspected White-breasted Nuthatch was roosting. I started watch at about 6:15 p.m. At about 7:03 a male WBNuthatch quickly flew to the box, paused less than a second and flew inside. I had suspected a female, but it seems to be a male. It sat clutching the bottom side of the hole and looked out for quite some time. Later, it stretched or puffed up so its white breast filled the hole with just a tiny sliver of black showing at the top (with no beak showing). I'm not sure how he was posed to get this look. I understand birds usually "sleep" with their heads tucked under their wings, so this black tip might have been a side view of his black cap. I went out again after dark to see what he looked like. His white breast and belly was still completely filling the hole. Evidently he did not go down into the box to sleep. Sunset was at 7:19 p.m. last night, so he entered about 16 minutes before sunset. I will keep you posted on his future endeavors! Thanks for your ideas and insights. Molly Jo Miller Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 18:03:02 -0400 Molly - is this box out in the open, i.e., like a typical bluebird box, or is it close to cover? I wonder whether I should move my box closer to the trees in the hope that proximity to trees would make it more attractive to roosting, as opposed to nesting birds? I already have two boxes mounted on trees in the woods, but I have never seen anyone roosting in them. On the other hand, I wasn't really looking... :) Katherine ... Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 08:10:59 -0400 I have been trying to make shelter for Bluebirds and other birds in winter. Instead of throwing the branches I cut from trees, I piled them up in a wooded area so they form shelter when it snows. I will also put in them some other discarded wood boards (together with the branches that forms a good wind breaker). I also made a couple of roosting boxes, and asked our friend Joe Huber "when do Bluebirds use them?" You can read his expert response below. I think it is wonderful to have such knowledgeable people answering our questions... Fawzi ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Huber" hubertrap"at"webtv.net Hi Fawzi, It has been my experience that Bluebirds using a
roost box Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 10:13:57 -0400 Haleya Priest Amherst MA By Joe's observations, it looks like "my" bluebirds may soon roost here in my front yard, as many evenings before dark they come and check out one of my boxes. They never go near the box during the day. And there is definitely no evidence in the box that they have actually roosted here as yet... Thanks Fawzi for asking Joe and thank you Joe for your keen observations! :-) H Fawzi P. Emad wrote: I have been trying to make shelter for Bluebirds and other
birds Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 11:27:21 -0400 I think somebody has been roosting in my pole-mounted bluebird box, but I don't know who. Two nights this week we had frost warnings, and when I looked in the box in the morning, there were a couple of small, soft greyish feathers, not distinctive enough to ID the owner. But it also looked as though someone had been pecking at the front wall near the entrance hole. There were little wood chips in the box. (I had cleaned it out a while ago and left it perfectly clean and empty). Maybe a downy? It has been warmer the past couple of nights, and although I sat and watched the box for about half an hour before sundown yesterday, no bird approached. So maybe they really do just use roost boxes on very cold nights. Katherine Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 01:07:20 EDT Do only cavity nesting birds go into a roosting box or on a cold night would a cold bird consider it, such as a hummingbird? Tina Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 00:19:04 EST I don't think you can beat bird down for insulation and since the birds already have that, I don't think the temperature in a roosting box is affected much by corks and tape etc. If the bird is down in the bottom of the box I really doubt that a thermometer would show a temperature difference . Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 23:08:15 EST This pertains to covering vent holes with something easy to use in the field and translucent to let light in. I talked to the butterfly artist today and she said she uses rice paper, or any porous paper would do, and gel medium which she puts on both sides. Supplies are available at an art store. And it is very breakable, one can use the head of a screw driver. (Acryllic painters use gel medium to thin their paint.) Tina - Calif Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 09:41:38 EST Hi all, Is a roost box with perches inside good for bluebirds? I saw a very nice one with the entrance hole at the bottom ( to conserve heat since heat rises ) that I am thinking of purchasing ( I am not a good enough wood worker to make one! ), but it had these perches inside. It was a little larger than a nestbox so would accomodate more birds which I understand they like, so unless it is bad to have the perches in it I think I will buy it. Any opinions welcome. Jane Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 09:26:18 -0600 Hello Jane & All: After building many of the roosting boxes that you described, we found that bluebirds prefer the regular nest box to the roosting boxes. From all accounts it was a good idea, but the bluebirds just did not like it. I think the roosting box is still on the website at: http://www.luckypenny.com/prodprev.htm I sold the company last year, so I'm not trying to commercialize. Best regards, Bruce Johnson ~ Life Mbr. NABS ----- Original Message ----- From: JaneHopeC"at"aol.com Hi all, Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 10:28:05 -0500 Hi Jane and all. The ones with perches do not seem to do the job! Attached are plans for one I consider good, I have one outside, and already I have seen *more* than one Bluebird go inside it at the same time! Text for the "instructions" is below. Let me know if you use it... Fawzi ROOST BOX, Design by Fawzi Emad, femad"at"comcast.net W =3D nominal 12", 3/4" thick stock Angles/tilts are 5 deg. Floor is 1.5"x8"x8" recessed 1/4" or more. Use 3/4"x8"x8" floor for a deeper box. A stove pipe predator guard is recommended, use 8" dia. by 2' galvanized stove pipe. Place stove pipe right under the box. For plans see: http://members.aol.com/jimmcl/bbbox/nabs/rk1.htm Note: two entrance holes, 1.5" diameter. Grooves inside, 3/4" apart under holes. Attach sides with glue and screws to the back, top, and floor. Only the front is allowed to be removable, hence not glued. Use SS screws or deck screws. Make sure all joints are sealed tight. View on the lower right is a cross-sectional view, roof is shown dashed. ----- Original Message ----- From: JaneHopeC"at"aol.com Hi all, Is a roost box with perches inside good for bluebirds? I saw a very nice one with the entrance hole at the bottom ( to conserve heat since heat rises ) that I am thinking of purchasing ( I am not a good enough wood worker to make one! ), but it had these perches inside. It was a little larger than a nestbox so would accomodate more birds which I understand they like, so unless it is bad to have the perches in it I think I will buy it. Any opinions welcome. Jane Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 11:45:56 -0400 Haleya Priest Amherst MA Jane, et al: In researching and studying and coming up with a roost box plan based on what all the folks on Bluebird-L recommended, we came up with a NO vote for both low placed entrance holes and NO for the perches. It was felt on the list that it is better to have the hole up where it normally is for nest boxes because otherwise you have this huge draft coming in right where the bluebirds nestle in. In terms of the perch poles, it was felt that this stopped the bluebirds from being able to really nestle in together, which is the whole point on roosting to start with. The other part of the roost box design that we came up with was making a LARGER box to be able to fit more bluebirds in. One other thing for those thinking about roost boxes. It is felt that the boxes should be placed up high, in quiet areas, and should be absolutely protected from predators due to the high numbers of bluebirds that could be using the roost box. Remember that NABS does not approve of boxes designed for roosting. They feel it is better to simply "winterize" nestboxes. I can't find the URL on the REF GUIDE for the Roost box plans, but I bet you can find it if you search Jim Mc's site: Search Best Of Bluebird-L http://members.aol.com/bestofbbl/bblindx.htm JaneHopeC"at"aol.com wrote: Hi all, Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 13:53:40 -0400 Haleya Priest Amherst MA ONE IMPORTANT THING ABOUT ROOST BOXES: they often don't even use the ones you so diligently make or buy and set up - so I hear and have experienced. Remember they have their own circuits of travel and know-how about where to roost. They must have a keen sense of where to roost, i.e.. prevailing winds, etc. Remember what KK (and others) pointed out recently: that these birds can stand terrible cold - (the "Mad Bluebird" is a perfect example - that photo was taken in -20* weather). And that perhaps a little airspace in a nest box is important so bluebirds don't suffocate on the bottom of the boxes. Which leads me to a true confession which is I haven't winterized my boxes yet.... And am not worried - will go out tomorrow and over the weekend. These guys are tough - and the time to worry is ice storms which covers all food sources- THAT'S most often when you see bluebirds dying - LACK OF FOOD, then freezing because they have no fat stores. That might be different for bluebirds down south - but if you are in the north, this freezing weather we are having is a piece of cake for our blue feathered friends !!!! :-) H otherwise known as MA BLUE.
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 13:04:12 -0500 Jane, et al, I think it's too early to start expecting Bluebirds to roost in your enclosures, no matter what kind you use. My understanding is that they don't need or seek roosting-places until the weather gets really life-threatening, and even then it's not a sure thing by any means. I gather that they seek places to roost especially when they're caught unawares too far north by an unseasonal blast of harsh weather. I also agree with Haleya, Fawzi, et al, who said that a regular nesting-box, made draft-free, is better than these contraptions with low holes and perching dowels. -----Original Message----- From: JaneHopeC"at"aol.com JaneHopeC"at"aol.com Many thanks to you all for your answers. Looks like the perches
and low Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 14:13:48 -0500 Chris Statton, Another vote that there is no guarantee on blues roosting or not roosting - whether offered a nestbox or roostbox or both. However, I have had years when, in the beginning of November - regardless of the temps, the blues just nicely moved in for unfailing nightly roosting and just continued to stay the rest of their lives (i.e. they nested in same the following summer, and roosted again the following winter). I offer the blues here a choice of both winterized nestboxes and winterized roost box. The roost box is identical in design to a nestbox, but is another half-time bigger (width, height, and length). The roost box is good since the blues often start nesting in mid-March, while snow storms are still in progress. This roost box can be opened for monitoring after the weather warms up. For the winter, If the blues are in it, the downys are in the nestboxes. If the blues take nestboxes, a downy takes the roost box. We've already had a bit of snow this winter and have between one and two dozen blues in the yard each day. Some nights they just stay and roost, other nights they are gone. Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 14:27:12 -0600 in regards to roost boxes, I've personally never used them and have been curious as to whether or not birds (cavity dwellers) would use them. It seems they would tho, as I leave all of my nest boxes up thru the winter, and Downy Woodpeckers, Black-capped Chickadees and others have been known to use the nest boxes to roost in. Not necessarily during ice storms or extremely cold weather either, as we had a downy using a bluebird box each night during most of October which was very mild and warm compared to this November here in Northern Michigan. It was really quite interesting as this particular Woodpecker showed up like clockwork at 'official' sunset. As for the bluebirds, they are in our southern counties thru the winter, so I've yet to watch their wintering behavior. Following this thread with interest :) C. Mead, Lupton MI. ... Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 16:08:37 -0500 How can one tell if the blues are using a box for roosting? There is a lot of activity every day at one of our boxes. BBs going in and out, chasing others away, etc. It is very cold here and the BBs are finally eating the dogwood berries I have provided for them. I realize there are still berries on the trees here, but it is pure pleasure to see them on our deck. Marilyn Pomeroy, Whispering Pines, NC Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 17:38:43 -0500 Hi to all! I believe that bluebirds will not start to use roost boxes as soon as they are offered. These birds are very choosy, and will look at all available places for roosting, including dead trees and bush piles. They scout all such places well ahead of winter. They have been going in my roost boxes for two months now, sometimes three or four birds at one time. So far, I think they are not using the roost boxes nor the winterized nestboxes. Still, they know the nestboxes are well insulated and available. When a really cold night comes on, they *may* chose to roost in a nestbox or roost box. At least, they may use one if they have been looking at it and know where to find it for months before the cold weather hits hard... Fawzi Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 12:33:06 EST Hi all, I have two NABS style boxes up that have been used as roost boxes this winter. I am planning on making some changes and trying some different style boxes this season ( slots and Glibertsons for various reasons ) and I was going to make the changes before going away on Friday for two weeks. However I saw a bird entering one of the "roost " boxes late yesterday afternoon ( a very rainy day ) and it did not come back out for at least 15 minutes so I am assuming the boxes may still be being used to roost in and don't want to make the changes if that is the case. When do people feel is the optimum time in the Northeast to clean out or make alterations to boxes that have been used as roost boxes ready for spring? Can I wait until early March when I get back? Jane Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 10:19:08 -0600 Merilyn Hunter, Hot Springs, Arkansas For the first time in 10 years we've had evidence of birds roosting in 2 of our boxes - berry seeds and droppings. I suspect that the unusual cold and severe ice storm may have encouraged them to roost. I've read comments from list members on whether the "evidence" is from House Sparrows, Bluebirds or other birds. How can one tell the difference? Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 21:39:32 -0500 (EST) Hi Merilyn et.al. Can't say that I have the expertize to answer your question regarding how to identify which birds are using your roost---but will use your post to raise a question of my own. In January I checked some of the nest boxes that I had winterized and found a couple that had been used for roosts.This really raised my spirits since I had not seen any EABLs since November.From the droppings found in the box it was quite obvious that they had been feeding on Sumac fruit which was only about 400 ft. away. But what was unusual was that I found about a dozen BB feathers in the box. They looked like pimarys-- 2 in. long and 3/8 in. wide --- and were not the work of a predator.The box (with it's animal guard ) was intact and not damaged.Do BBs moult this time of year-either yearlings or older birds ? Appreciate your comments. George N E Ohio Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 23:15:18 EST George, I'm not a expert on molting, but I've read on this list that sometimes a roosting bird's feathers get pulled out as the bird struggles to free itself from ice that has formed inside a box. In addition to wind blown rain getting into a box where it is a source of water for freezing, snow or sleet blown into a box can thaw and later refreeze. Maybe the feathers you found is a result of this kind of struggle. BTW - I believe Joe Huber told the story of watching for fifteen minutes as a bird tried to free itself from ice in a nestbox. That would have been in Ohio, somewhere around Columbus. Tom Heintzelman Roost Boxes (Part 2) |
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