Nestbox placement (Part 6)

From: "Bruce Burdett" blueburd"at"tds.net
Subject: Re: placing nest boxes...again - a question
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:56:04 -0400

Michelle, in Port Allen, et al,

If I undertstand your question correctly, yes, ALL my boxes are in view of the adjoining box of the pair, 15' +- away. That is to say, all my boxes are paired, and distance between the two boxes in each pair is 15'+-.

The normal (most frequent) situation is to have Bluebirds nesting in one house and Tree Swallows nesting in the box right next door. (Maybe you don't have Tree Swallows down there. We have them here in millions, droves, squadrons.)

If you were to ask me if I've had Bluebirds nesting in a house within view of another house with nesting Bluebirds, the answer would be "No, never."

Bruce Burdett, SW NH

From: "Jim & Ann" jimnann"at"midwestinfo.net
Subject: Re: placing nest boxes...again - a question
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:35:02 -0500

Most of mine can be seen from one site. The paired ones are on a fencerow that runs a quarter mile & all is fine there. Luckily no HOSP problems. Jim Koehler Miltona, MN

From: "jodyrn" jodyrn"at"bright.net
Subject: Re: placing nest boxes...again - a question
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2003 18:33:21 -0400

I have a total of 9 boxes on 3.5 acres. 5 in the front- between house and road. 4 are all within site of each other. The 4 are paired. 2 are now being used by EABL and 2 are being used by TRES. One EABL and one TRES in each pair. I have never had 2 pairs of EABL nest within site of another pair before. I doubled my boxes last year and paired them due to the number of TRES here. It works!! Both pairs of EABL have begun laying eggs. So I know they are serious. The 5th box in front is pretty well hidden from others ( between 2 tall pine trees). (not paired, as other box had broken roof and I took it down).  I have 4 boxes in back yard. Large back yard with open fields on 3 other sides One with active EABL nest ( female incubating 4 eggs). And one active TRES nest (not in paired box, they are across the yard). The 4 boxes in back are also visible from each other. Learned about pairing boxes (and a multitude of other info) from all you on this list. Thanks!! Jodyrose North Central Ohio (Morrow County)

From: "Keith & Sandy Kridler" kakridler"at"1starnet.com
Subject: Re:federal Bluebird trail/Hopeless sparrows
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 08:48:10 -0500

Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas
The Texarkana "federal bluebird trail" is 600 nestboxes divided up with 150 placed in each of the four states near Texarkana TX./Ark./LA. and OK. I was giving another bluebird program at another event during this dedication and could not make this one. I "believe" this is actually NOT federal in any way other than in name as I "believe" this is a brain child of a group and paid for and monitored by this group. I believe the goal here was to actually place the boxes in 600 "backyard" locations or place them on many small scattered trails.

I have been pretty busy the last four weeks with programs and building nestboxes for new trails and we have built and installed just under 200 more nestboxes in my area (within about 160 miles of my house :-) ) and about 8 more groups/trails were started with most of them mounted as single "backyard" nestboxes.

Some of these have been "decorative" nestboxes where they took a kit and nailed together a well built nestbox and then kids painted and decorated the nestboxes for their yards. IF you wanted to you can install nice looking nestboxes and monitor them for native cavity nesters...Even the decorative nestboxes in Michigan could be auctioned off and with them give them instructions on monitoring and placing them for "native birds". You could give instructions for reducing the hole sizes on these nestboxes to where only chickadee's and House Wrens could use the boxes and still have a "decorative/useful" nestboxes and successful fund raiser.

I know MANY people are against putting up nestboxes that may only be monitored for a year or so or probably incorrectly or placed in a "poor" bluebird location. BUT here is an example of a "Poor" location I have skipped for three years.

This spring the city of Mt. Pleasant asked me AGAIN to install a nestbox trail at Heritage park, a softball/soccer/tennis and basketball courts complex wedged between four lane Hwy. US 67 and I-30 and surrounded by apartment buildings and commercial operations. It is about two miles within the city limits....Don Hutchings and Kate and John Arnold helped build about 90 trail boxes one weekend and we dedicated 15 for this "Park" if we could find a monitor. Don found a friend who walks the park daily for his health requirements and we placed the boxes in May a full two months after our nesting season had started.

Within two weeks Rex Amerson had 3 pairs of bluebirds nesting. In June he had 6 pairs nesting and last week he had 9 active bluebird pairs in the 15 Heritage Park nestboxes. OK if we had NOT placed these nestboxes WHERE would these bluebirds have nested in this "industrialized/urbanized" area of our town? Also remember that I am checking more than 100 other "bluebird" nestboxes of my own within the city limits of Mt. Pleasant with very similar occupancy and there are House Sparrows EVERYWHERE in our city.

The key is simply to teach people to MONITOR their nestboxes and NOT to WORRY so much about "perfect" locations! It also shows that it is NEVER too LATE in the year to place a nestbox! KK

My neighborhood has street lights on 6" metal poles spaced approx. 200' apart, usually surrounded by mowed turf. This seems, to me, to be a real good place for nest boxes as the poles are a built-in predator guard. Does anyone have experience with this or see a problem with the lights on all night about 12 ft. above the nest box?

I'm just a novice at bluebirding and gleen the list for information.

We are in the piedmont region of North Carolina.

Morton

Why not? Put up a few as see how it goes!! I'm not sure what you mean about the poles are a built in predator guard? Is that cause they are so wide? Maybe somebody else on here will comment on that part. Seems they would be similar to utility poles like telephone ones which people have used but be alot slippier.

I don't remember who posted this or where I read it...but somebody once posted that they had seen bluebirds feeding at night when the street lights were on!!! At least if they are scared off the nest they can SEE to come back!! :D Maybe you will see this too!!

Let us know what you decide and how it goes.

Kathy Clark, New Cumberland, PA

Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 13:41:32 -0700
From: Linda Violett lviolett"at"earthlink.net
Subject: Re: Light poles for nestboxes

Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif.

Yes, Kathy, I had posted quite a while back about urban Western Bluebirds foraging at night (KK also posted something similar). A nestbox was located near a busy 4-lane highway at a church. At night, the church sign was lit which, of course, attracted bugs. Western Bluebirds ignored the clock and took advantage of the food supply.

Lights around a nestbox will not prevent Bluebirds from nesting. Our urban nestboxes are near street lights, sport field lights and commercial lights.

Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 21:48:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Daniel Sparks b4bluebirds"at"yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Light poles for nestboxes

I mounted three EABL nestboxes this spring at our local county library. One was mounted under a parking lot light. Guess which on had two successful broods?...the nestbox under the light. The light didn't appear to bother the bluebirds.
Dan Sparks
Brown County Bluebird Society

From: "Paula" PaulaZ"at"columbus.rr.com
Subject: Re: Light Poles for Nestboxes
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 18:31:25 -0400

If you want to use these, couple of things to consider. First, you must of course get permission from local authority that maintains street lights. Second, may be difficult to mount on the pole - not sure how to do this. Third, pole is really not predator guard. Although safer and slipperier than a tree or telephone pole, I am almost certain a raccoon could still climb up it. The predator baffles used are similar in material and diameter to the poles, but remember that they wobble. This wobbling is what keeps the predator off. Fourth, traffic would be a concern. I have heard of bluebird boxes mounted on busy streets where parents or nestlings have gotten hit by cars. Make sure to face entry hole into yard and away from traffic. Fifth, boxes by street can be invitation to vandals.

Just a few things to think about before you proceed. I have mounted bluebird boxes on the back of several mailboxes on our street and have had wonderful success. We live on cul de sac with very little traffic. In past two years, we have lost no birds or eggs to predators or traffic, but did lose a nest of eggs to 6-year old "vandals" last week - just curious in a really bad way.

Paula Z
Powell (Central) Ohio

From: "emcooper" emcooper"at"bayou.com
Subject: Could Nestboxes Be Placed In Water?
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 16:23:42 -0500

LBBS is working with a project in the southern part of the state and the park is about 110 acres. The leader of the project asked if nestboxes could be installed on poles in the water. I don't remember seeing this discussed, but I am think of several things, like how far would the pair have to fly to get food, how far would the fledglings have to fly to the trees to fledge. Does anyone have any experience with this and input?

Two years ago, one of my nestboxes stood in water for about a week after torrential downpours. It had 5 eggs in it and the female kept on incubating. She did not have to fly very far to find food though.

We are very excited about this project. It is in the beginning stages and the leader is leaning on us for advice. Thanks in advance,

Evelyn Cooper
Delhi, LA.
Louisiana Bayou Bluebird Society

Thanks, Phil. This park is very near New Orleans and I am sure parts of it is underwater especially in the spring. My concern is food sources, how far would it be that they have to fly to get food. They are not like Swallows.  Evelyn

And over water, yes, we have a couple that are ON the water line, but not IN the water. I don't see a problem with it, however. Ask the birds....
Phil Berry

It's a pleasure to monitor cavity nesting bird boxes that are placed in the water. I studied Prothonotary Warbler on purpose and therefore put the boxes where they were shaded either all day or nearly all day.

If the nest boxes were placed well out in the open away from trees then I would have gotten EABL. Maybe some Tree Swallows.

I suppose the people in the west would get maybe TRSW also or one of the other bluebirds depending on where they are at, but not sure.

My poles were welded to a circular base so that they could stand on their own, and the I weighed them down in the water with a masonry brick.

Good birding, Larry H. Joplin MO. Lawrence Herbert lherbert"at"4state.com

Our local wildlife management area (Charlie Elliot Wildlife Center) has large nest boxes in water, they house Kingfishers....... My husband was walking around the area one day and came home to tell me that there were boxes with weird birds...... I went with my field guide to Id.............. The boxes are larger I doubt any other small birds would make a nest but I guess you never know....

How do you go about setting up a Bluebird Trail? I see so many good locations without nest boxes.....

Crystal...

To the BLUEBIRD-L Constituency, Please don't be deterred by the fact that you don't have room for many Bluebird houses on your property. Let me reiterate once more, NONE of my 72 houses is on our own property. That's zero! The habitat is simply not suitable. My boxes are scattered all over Sunapee on the properties of other people whose permission I have asked for and gratefully been given. Except for one man who likes to help with the monitoring, I do all the monitoring and maintenance myself. I have never been turned down when I've asked a landowner's permission, - not once. (I should add that I knew most of the people before I asked them, though in a few cases I just knocked on the door and introduced myself. ) 

So once again, poor or insufficient habitat on your own property NEED NOT DETER YOU. Just ask around.
Bruce Burdett, NH Bluebird Conspiracy

...I have a question, last year was our first year for bluebirds nesting in our yard. We had two nestings....... We are trying to get our yard ready for this year. We have one EABB nest box on pole with baffle in the back, water source, and mealworm feeder. The same set up in the front except we also have other feeders. If we are going to dedicate our yard to the bluebirds should we remove the other feeders? .... Crystal Social Circle, GA NABS member

...I've been a bluebird landlord for over 12 years and have always had several seed feeders in my garden. They are not located close to the nest box, but they are busy all day. The bluebirds don't seem to mind having other birds around as long as they aren't competing for the box! Bluebirds are territorial, so make sure the nest boxes are 300 yards apart if you want another bluebird pair; I had two nest boxes in my former home and never had two pairs of blues because there wasn't enough space between them. I did, however, have nuthatches nest in the second box. Green tree swallows also like bluebird boxes. I'm sure you'll get tenants! Barbara in Cloverdale CA

I do not use any seed feeders. I just have suet and mealworm feeders. I get bluebirds, black-capped chickadee, northern flicker,dark-eyed junco, downy woodpecker, hairy woodpecker, red-bellied woodpecker , red-headed woodpecker, white-breasted nuthatch and tufted titmouse. The catbird, brown-headed cowbird, mockingbird, house sparrow and starling try to use them, but the way I have them set up most of the time they can not eat from them. I have a open nest box from doves and robins in a tree and some times a kestrel will hide in it and when the birds come to the feeders he come out and get one of the birds. Maynard Sumner Flint, MI

Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas

In most southern states from Texas to the Carolinas you can attract a wide range of cavity nesting birds into your yards with nestboxes constructed for the various species and mounted in the habitat they prefer and the heights they will use. I just added up 13 species of cavity nesters that have used a "bluebird sized" nestbox with either a 1&9/16" round entrance hole or the Dick Peterson Oval entrance hole within 45 miles of my house and this only includes three species of woodpeckers and no mammals or reptiles or insect colonies!

All of these boxes were between 30" of the ground to about 10 feet off the ground. If you feed sunflowers or peanuts then you should have at least three boxes in your yard JUST for titmice, chickadees and nuthatches. You need a couple boxes for the woodpeckers to roost in during the winter and to be sure that a single pair of bluebirds will use your yard you should give them at least four different choices of nestbox locations. A novice is just as likely as an expert to place a nestbox in a location that we think is perfect and then have the bluebirds NEVER use this location!!! I have mounted a "perfect" wood nestbox in a person's yard only to have the bluebirds build in their open mailbox or a decorative nestbox sitting on a porch railing or a tin can nailed to a fence post. When bluebirds go house hunting they want a house or location to fit their needs and wants.....Birds have literally thousands of nesting choices in a four or five mile radius of where they were born! ...

When you put the exact same style of nestbox on the exact same pole and predator guard at the exact same height you may be about to limit the number of birds willing to use your yard.

I prefer to feed the birds up close to the house and have the nestboxes placed a little ways from the bird feeders or mounted up a LOT higher than the feeders. ...

Crystal, I think the main concern is you don't want to attract any birds near the nestbox that could compete with the EABL. In the spring and summer months there are more natural food supplies for the birds to eat. I discontinue feeding with the exception of thistle for goldfinches (just love to see them) and sugar water for the hummingbirds. I also feed mealworms to the EABL. I really don't want to draw any house sparrows into the area. That is my main concern. I'm no expert, but this is what I do. Paula Z Powell (central) Ohio

Hi Bruce, Yes, I meant 900 feet apart...I got that figure from the NA Bluebird Society website.  It states "Bluebirds rarely nest within 100 YARDS of other bluebirds."  I have put up nest boxes within 100 feet of each other and have never gotten two pair of bluebirds, but my intent was to provide a choice for them, and also a nest site for others.  I had nuthatches nest in the second box when I lived in Sonoma.  Here in Cloverdale I expect green tree swallows!  It might work having them closer, I don't know, but I went by the NABS site recommendation. Barbara in Cloverdale

Lisa, Are you aware that the NABS website says "300 yards"? Other material I have read says, "300 feet". In Texas we teach that the distance can be 100 feet (or less) because the bluebird's territory is determined by the availability of food and because the bluebird does not have competition here from Tree Swallows. In addition, we teach that "bluebird" nestboxes can be much closer if one wants to provide for other cavity nesting birds. Pauline

Here is what is stated on the NABS web site regarding nest box spacing (see http://nabluebirdsociety.org/start.htm): "Boxes for the Eastern Bluebird should be spaced at least 100 to 150 yards apart; Western and Mountain Bluebirds have a larger nesting territory and boxes should be spaced no closer than 300 yards apart." I believe this to be accurate information. It may be stated differently or incorrectly elsewhere on the site and if so please tell me the exact page where the error is. If you have any questions or comments regarding the information on the NABS web site please direct them to me at web"at"nabluebirdsociety.org

Jim McLochlin Omaha, NE 41.279N -96.060W NABS Director, TBT Chairperson, and NABS Web Site Chairperson

Jim McLochlin, et al, Thanks for the clarification, Jim. Apparently the Westerns and Mountains have different distance requirements from our Easterns. Here, we think of 100 yds (300 ft) as a good average spacing, given the population densities we have. (300 yds (900 ft) would be considered excessive.) And if there are obstructions between them, like buildings or woods, then the spacing can be even less. Tree Swallows, I've found, have smaller territories and will nest as little as 30 feet from other Tree Swallows. Other folks have reported even closer spacings for the swallows. Bruce Burdett, SW NH

A few weeks back there was a discussion on Bluebird-L regarding the recommended nest box spacing on the NABS web site. I asked the NABS Technical Advisory Committee (TAC) to re-evaluate the current recommendation and here is the response. I have made the change to the NABS web site based on this report. Please be aware the information on the web site is really intended as information to get some one started bluebirding, and not as a final or total resource of information on the subject. A new bluebirder following these guidelines certainly would not go wrong. Also note the recommendation that for specific guidelines on box placements for your geographic area that one should contact the local affiliate. Should there be any more questions on this matter or on any content within the NABS web site please do not hesitate to ask.

TAC Position on Nest Spacing February 2004

Nesting density for all three species of bluebirds is dependent on many factors. Some of these factors include population density, habitat suitability, individual tolerance levels, visibility between boxes, the number of cavities available, weather, and the level of competition from other species (especially Tree Swallows, or, in the west, Violet Green Swallows). It is therefore impossible to predetermine the optimal spacing for any given area. The following distances are given as general guidelines only; contact your local bluebird affiliate organization to find out what they recommend, and experiment by adjusting the distances between your own boxes until you have established ideal spacing for your particular location. In many cases, bluebirds have been observed nesting closer than the distances recommended. However, it is better to start a bluebird trail with boxes placed too far apart than too close together.

Western Bluebirds - approximately 100 yards

Eastern Bluebirds - 125 to 150 yards

Mountain Bluebirds - 200 to 300 yards

We have discussed this many times on BB-L and agreed the Eastern Bluebird was 100 yards. Now, it has been raised by 25 to 50 ft. I am being asked that question every day now, so I have to change it? Evelyn

Evelyn, The recommendation for Eastern Bluebirds is now 125 to 150 yards. This is a starting point and not the final answer. I believe in the south you can get away with much closer spacing. I know that here in Nebraska 100 yards is a very good starting point for me. Anything less does nothing but create problems. This is the dilemma that the TAC was faced with. There is no correct answer that will work for everyone, other than a safe starting distance and then work up or down from there. Jim McLochlin Omaha, NE 41.279N -96.060W NABS Director, TBT Chairperson, and NABS Web Site Chairperson ...

Evelyn, Of course this distance is based upon other factors such as type of territory---flat, open country, or wooded, buildings on property, etc. I have three within 200 feet, but on three sides of a large building. If the birds can not see the other boxes it works well.

...My own experience in this matter of box-spacing is not useful, really, since none of my nesting sites (2 boxes each) is closer than about a half-mile from the next nearest site. That's roughly 880 yards. The majority are even farther apart than that, like 3 miles. Any statistics I might generate, therefore, have no significance in this discussion. Bruce Burdett, SW NH

Dottie Roseboom, Peoria IL    (central)

From: Keith & Sandy Kridler
Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2004 8:40 AM
Subject: Nestbox spacing

Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant Texas

I was thinking about NABS recommended 125 to 150 yard spacing between bluebird nestboxes and then Reading Pauline's account of watching three different species of cavity nesters fledging from a tiny back yard in the span of a few hours!

What we are doing is telling new birders, that have not a clue about birds that IF their city/urban neighbor already has up a box that they should NOT place another box in their yard IF they live within 150 yards of another nestbox!

Do the Math! If you place "Bluebird" nestboxes in a perfect grid of 450 feet apart each way then this is only one nestbox per 4.6 ACRES! Many urban areas are now building human houses 6>10 per acre. If you follow the other recommendations of needing a tree for the young to fledge to and the other things we tell people they HAVE to HAVE then the actual "good" nestbox placement might be ten times that amount of area!

Gee we have 20 acres and just now I figured out I need to go remove more than 60 nestboxes because they are too close:-))) There are nearly 80 other cavity nesting species that are in more need of nestboxes than any of the three species of bluebirds. I would think that there are more than 20 other species of cavity nesters that could use a "Bluebird" nestbox. If you don't have at least 6 nestboxes in your yard then you are robbing yourself of the opportunity to REALLY enjoy the birds! KK

From: Evelyn Cooper
Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2004 9:44 AM
Subject: RE: Nestbox spacing

The first thing about Pauline's post that caught my eyes was her statement that the Bluebirds had not nested again this year in the nestbox. We know that they all come back to the area where they are hatched to nest and it seems that at least some of them would have. It sounds like Pauline has at least 6 nestboxes in her yard close together.

I have three nestboxes in my yard, side, front and back and can see them from every window in my house. In the spring, they put on quite a show with the going in and out of the nestboxes and the wing waving. They keep the route busy going from one to the other. Only one pair takes a box and the other two stay empty. No other birds nest in them. I am wondering it if is because the Bluebirds are dominating the yard.

I know in lots of cases like you mentioned several species nest side by side, but in some instances could the Bluebirds dominate and keep others away and also, and the other species keep the Bluebirds away?

Evelyn Cooper

Delhi, LA

From: Dottie Roseboom
Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2004 10:17 AM
Subject: Fw: Nestbox spacing

Keith,

Yes, I accidentally figured this out several years ago. As people presented me with gifts of nestboxes, I would place them throughout our property. As my original nestboxes began to weather, I replaced them. Rather than throwing the old nestboxes out, they became "sparrow trap boxes". Although the nestboxes are closer than the recommended distance, most of them are used. The birds somehow learn to tolerate each other. And I suspect that a family of titmouses almost ready to fledge isn't seem as much competition by a bluebird just looking for a new home. I think that having lots of foraging areas helps with the overcrowding. Between the pond and native plants, we do have tons of bugs! I allow clover, dandelions, etc. to grow in the lawn, providing food for additional insects. (my neighbors don't care for this lackadaisical attitude.)

The only concern that I have with people adding an additional nestbox is the upkeep of the box, HOSP control, and predators tend to view these yards as good targets.

Dottie Roseboom

Peoria IL (central)

From: ke4fej1
Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2004 10:23 AM
Subject: Re: Nestbox spacing

Hi Keith and all..., I agree with you totally Keith. And from all of your posts it sure makes sense. Monitors ask me how many boxes can they have?... We have Trails on property of .3 acres to hundreds of acres.... I only see one problem and that is ..most important is having BB size boxes ...can you handle Monitoring them properly and second the cost. We don't know what we will get until we try.

Most people love the idea of more boxes but even the most excited know they can only handle five. One of our Trails has 20 boxes and another 15 and a couple at 10 ... the one who has 20 is finding working and helping others cuts down on his time to check as he wants, and the one at 10 boxes runs a huge farms mostly by himself and does not have the Monitoring down as to being dedicated to the paperwork. I really stress, with all of my Trails and boxes... that Monitoring and keeping records is most important to their learning and our success. I love the number of boxes, but I only work with those who promise to Monitor and report regularly. I figure if I can get them to do this regularly for a few years they will continue in the future when I may not be in their lives. It takes a while to create a habit.

I think Keith, that you said once that the biggest problem with having tooooo many boxes is that they are not all going to be filled. So, I tell my people if they can manage the Monitoring next ...if they don't get so sad that the boxes are empty then by all means put up all kinds of boxes. I use you as an example with your count and acres.

Also, the story of the new Monitor ....a fellow who put BB boxes every other fence post... and the Pro BBer went out to see his new BB Trail...when he saw it from afar ...thought how was he going to tell this guy it was wrong... the first box was filled with eggs... made the Pro feel better that now the bad news of placement of other boxes would not be so hard now... but next box and the next and next etc... were all filled with eggs. The new Monitor was proud ...and the Pro knew this is not supposed to happen.... but it did.... Well, tells me and my Monitors that anything is possible..... So we think of placement...we try the 100 yrds...but if that can't be done...we do the best we can think of... What is the worst that can happen... An empty box..... well if we don't try at all that is pretty empty too.

I just had a Monitor report a Tufted Titmouse baby...not a BB but she is thrilled to do everything as right as she can.

Christy Sarasota, FL

From: JOHN & BARBARA SIBIO
Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2004 10:58 AM
Subject: Nestbox spacing

My previous home was on a fairly good-sized lot with a couple big oak trees. I had bluebirds every year in one nestbox, usually three nestings. I had put up a second box on the far side of the garden but never had bluebirds nest in it, although they did check it out every year. One year I had a nuthatch successfully nest there and the bluebirds weren't the least bit concerned. That same year I had a TUTI nest in a little ornamental hanging nest box, and a pair of robins nest in one oak tree! The house finches nested every year, seems like EVERYWHERE. I had them in my hanging plants, of course, but one year I tacked up plastic berry baskets near the eves on one side of the house and they loved that! It didn't keep them out of my planters, though, but I felt they were a little safer up there. Who knows what goes on in the bird brain?

Barbara in Cloverdale, CA

From: jwick"at"tds.net
Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2004 11:10 AM
Subject: Re: Number of nestboxes placed

Just my 2 cents worth: I would be VERY concerned if ALL my nestboxes were occupied.

This would tell me I didn't have enough out there. (Of course, if they are placed, they must be monitored.)

...

Ann Wick, Black Earth, WI

From: PTom [mailto:ptom"at"austin.rr.com]
Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2004 11:53 AM
Subject: Re: Nestbox spacing

Oh, heavens!  I don't have six nestboxes in my yard close together!  I have SEVENTEEN "bluebird-size" nestboxes in my yard quite close together.  Our lot is less than one-acre.  It has a 2400 sq foot house, long covered porches, a large circular driveway, and a long driveway from the street to the garage.  In other words, the "lawn" area is limited. During nesting season, 3 - 6 nestboxes will be active at the same time.   Last year when I had bluebirds nesting in my front yard, there were nestboxes nearby with wrens (12 steps away) and titmice (5 steps away).  I'm guessing (there's no way to know for sure) that bluebirds didn't nest (YET, there's still hope!) this year because the week because of BoD.  The week that the male sat atop a nestbox, my sometimes precious dachshund frequently jumped into the garden window and barked aggressively.  BoD was barking at a stray dog across the street.  Mr. Bluebird, who was just a few feet away, flew each time BoD barked. In my opinion, NABS is making the mistake of providing instructions for  optimal spacing with the assumption of a bluebird (exclusively) "trail" with dozens of active nestboxes along a road.   In fact, most people do not live out in the country and there is much potential for those in suburban areas to put out a few nestboxes in their yard where they are easy to monitor. It was from Bluebird-L and Keith Kridler that I learned I could add more nestboxes to my yard.  I learned that the 100 - 150 yard guideline applied to the nearest OCCUPIED bluebird nestbox (until you have the first occupied nestbox you don't know which nestbox will be selected); and, I learned that the "guideline" was applicable if you wanted only bluebirds and if you want few, if any, empty nestboxes. Pauline Tom Mountain City (no mountains) TX

From: Snoopy [mailto:snoopy"at"wmis.net]
Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2004 2:47 PM
Re: Nestbox spacing

YIKES!!! I have a total of 8 nestboxes (all paired about 15 to 20 feet apart) on my meager 3 acres here.... I have had as many as 5-7 of them occupied at one time in different years. The pairing has worked wonderfully. I don't care what any statistics "say", I"m just gonna stick with what works for me and fledges bluebirds and swallows!!! Joy in Michigan...

From: Kate Arnold [mailto:bbnestbox"at"1starnet.com]
Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2004 7:35 PM
RE: Nestbox spacing

The bluebirds could be close by, but just not in Pauline's yard for this nesting. Right now there are not a lot of bluebirds in her area, at least not when you compare to places farther east in Texas, like Keith Kridler's and my locations, where bluebirds are considered common! So the bluebirds near Pauline have a lot of nearby places to choose from, since Pauline has been working hard to get others to put up nestboxes! :-))) Hopefully, they will choose her yard for a future nesting. Having been at Pauline's house, many would not describe her yard as "ideal" bluebird habitat--lots of trees, for one thing. But it is great habitat for the species she mentioned as fledging in those two hours! As the bluebird population increases in her area, her yard (and many others nearby) will be chosen by bluebirds more and more. Keith's yard is ample evidence that multiple nestboxes do not discourage bluebirds or others from nesting, as long as they can keep reasonable distance between other pairs of the same species. I believe he has upwards of 80 nestboxes on 20 acres and has housed a large variety of cavity-nesting species--even a turkey vulture! Maybe he will list all the species for us... Kate Arnold Paris, TX

From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com]
Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2004 10:32 PM
RE: Nestbox spacing

Well, that answers questions about Pauline's yard and no bluebirds, but I still wonder why I have no other birds in the nestboxes I provide. It may be that I have so many acres, buildings, natural cavities, etc. they don't need them. I thought surely they would love the fine little homes sitting out there. Evelyn Cooper Delhi, LA

From: Paula [ mailto:PaulaZ"at"columbus.rr.com ]
Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2004 11:21 AM
Subject: Re: Nest Box Spacing

Evelyn,

This is very good point/observation. I find Tufted Titmouse and Carolina Chickadee to be rather shy timid birds, and the Bluebirds often chase them away. Tree Swallows, on the other hand, are a formidable force and give the Bluebirds a run for their money. On my trail, even though paired, I have more Bluebirds nesting after the Tree Swallows are done. The House Sparrow's aggressive nature works well for him to chase anything off if he is committed and I am not. The European Starling, due to sheer size and aggressiveness too is problem if nest box holes are too large.

I did put up a chickadee box this year with the smaller hole on it to give them a chance because they have checked out my boxes in the past, but the House Sparrows and Bluebirds chased them off. I saw them looking at it yesterday, but no takers yet.

A lot of it has to do with individual birds too. Some are better at defending their box or less tolerant of other birds near their box. At the very least, it is fun to watch and sad sometimes.

Paula Z

Powell (Central) Ohio

From: Evelyn Cooper
Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2004 2:25 PM
Subject: RE: Nest Box Spacing

I am inclined to believe that the Bluebirds that stay around my house year round and nest in the yard do dominate that area. When I put the first nestbox up (about 60 ft. from the window), I saw a Bluebird and Carolina Wren having a knockout fight and Bluebird and Carolina Wren feathers were literally flying. The Bluebird won and nested. Even though I added nestboxes, the other birds don't nest in them. Last year, a Carolina Wren nested above the garage door 55 ft. from that nestbox that remained empty. I had to leave one of the garage doors open for her to get in and out until her babies fledged. I have found where a female is nesting in the back yard this year in a small building about 45 ft. from another empty nestbox.

I like to see my Bluebirds take up for themselves. I did see a tiny Carolina Chickadee take over an almost completed bluebird nest on my trail last year. This year, however, in another area on my trail, the Bluebird took it back. It is not like they don't have enough nestboxes as others were not being used and I have stated in another post that my woods are full of natural cavities and I have many available places in barns and buildings.

Our habitat, availabilty of nesting places and the nature of the birds decides who will be the tenants is may way of thinking.

Evelyn Cooper, Delhi, LA

From: Dottie Roseboom [mailto:rosedot"at"mtco.com]
Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2004 3:52 PM
Subject: Re: Nest Box Spacing

Paula, Yes, birding is most interesting & fun.  And as with all things in life, sometimes sad.  Do you have the "chickadee" nestbox out in the open or a bit protected?   I have a nestbox that is a on fairly steep grade - it's surrounded on the lower side by low shrubs & native prairie grasses. The chickadees (we have the black-capped) & Tufted Titmouses fight over this box, because they can skip & hop through the brush and enter the nestbox from the back, lower side, which is away from all the other nestboxes.  Every year, this nestbox produces at least 2 broods of the smaller cavitynesters.  It has the normal opening for bluebirds, so the blues do check it out.  But they seem to prefer the nestboxes on more level ground with less vegetation. As you stated these smaller birds seem shy, and I think that they feel more secluded with this hidden nestbox.   It is so well hidden, that although I can see the upper 2/3 of it from a kitchen window (because of the hill), one summer, I had a great surprise.  I had been examining all nestboxes, deciding what repairs would be needed that fall.  I had regretted not seeing the usual activity at this particular box, so I when I came to it, I just threw open the lid.  A chickadee almost bumped my nose as she flew away.   I looked into the box to see 7 beautiful eggs!  How had this happened?  I'd kept an eagle eye on that box and had only seen an occasional HOSP land & fly away.  After returning to the house, happy & amazed, I watched for her return to the nestbox. Although other chickadees had been very secretive, this one was a master of deception, as she had discovered that she could squeeze between 2 sheaths of the prairie grass & "disappear" into thin air (nestbox).  She raised the entire brood and I only saw her 5 or 6 times actually entering the nestbox. Neither the HOSP or Bluebirds paid any attention to her.  A nestbox that is usually active with bluebirds is less than 100' from this nestbox. Until I started reading of other people having problems with bluebirds & the smaller cavitynesters, I did not realize that there was competition between them. I think that it would an interesting study to see if "cover" helps protect the smaller birds from larger ones.  Perhaps if the smaller birds keep "out-of-the-way", they pose no threat to the other birds.  And this thought leads me to another question. I had never feed mealworms until last fall.  Last fall, and so far this spring, the Chickadees have scarfed them down before anyone else could get them.  They are quite aggressive & will even enter the bluebird feeder that is only about 12' from an active bluebird nest.  I was shocked by such "forward" behavior by the chickadees.  They are certainly bringing attention to themselves, something that they have never done before!  IF this aggressive behavior brings out the territorial instincts in the bluebirds, I might be doing a disservice to both species by providing mealworms.  I'm thinking of discontinuing the mealworms as a spring/summer treat.  Has anyone else noticed a tendency toward aggression by Chickadees because of mealworms?
      Dottie Roseboom
      Peoria    IL    (central)

From: judymellin [mailto:judymellin"at"netzero.net]
Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2004 10:36 PM
Subject: Re: Nest Box Spacing

I wonder if we cannot find some of these answers in the research of Arthur Cleveland Bent?  I know that many folks on this list are familiar with his work and, while most of the books are now out of print (he did most of his writing in the early years of the last century), we are very lucky that ALL of his work- Life Histories of North American Birds- are available at birdzilla.com .  His style seems very stilted by today's standards but much of his research is anecdotal and he definitely had poetry in his soul.  From the home page, click on Wild Bird OMNIBUS in the center and then type in the species you're interested in.  You will be directed to a page where you then click on the species name (yes, it is usually the same one that you just typed in) and you will be directed to a thumbnail sketch with a wonderful photo.  Look in the upper right corner of the page and click on Bent Life History.  The reports seem long but they are well-organized and well worth the time. Judy Mellin NE IL.

From: Keith & Sandy Kridler [mailto:txbluebirder"at"sbcglobal.net] Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 8:37 AM To: BLUEBIRD-L Subject: more on nestbox spacing Keith Kridler in rainy east Texas When we place scattered nestboxes over several acres we are simulating a more natural placement. If you think about trees dying then often hardwoods are killed in a small area with a wildfire or in pine forests when a pine bark beetle infestation kills out 40 or 50 acres. The busy beaver will work an area around a stream or pond killing many trees in a small area. Today we often see where herbicides are used to kill all the trees on a fence line or right of way. When these trees die out and begin to rot then the woodpeckers will riddle the trees with holes. Providing many cavities with various height and size specifications...Woodpeckers often drill 2 or 3 holes in the same limb. I saw a large Paulownia tree in Tennessee that had 17 woodpecker holes on the side of the tree that had been scorched with fire from a burning house years before. Some of these holes were 30 feet apart in large limbs and ranged in height from about 5 feet off the ground to about 40 feet....Plenty of area for about 5 or 6 species of birds to use the same tree.... I see bluebirds in this area dominate the chickadees and titmice if the nestboxes are out in the open and there is a shortage of nestboxes. When I place nestboxes in tiny openings in mature woods I still often get the occasional bluebird nesting but mostly chickadees and titmice will use these nestboxes. KK

From: Joe Baker [mailto:rok90"at"adelphia.net]
Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 9:24 AM
Subject: Possible to move nestbox during incubation?

Hi all, Need some advice, please.   I made a newbie mistake by placing my BB nestbox on a locust fence post surrounded by a thicket.  There are 4 eggs now and into the fourth day of incubation.  I have a Noel guard on the box, but I am really concerned the guard will not be adequate to ward off all predators. Is it possible, at this stage of the game,  that I could remount the box on a metal pole attached to a concrete block base so as to be able to move the box a couple of feet per day until I have it in an open area that is 25 feet away from its present location?  One thing in my favor is that I have the BB's hooked on mealworms now and I could keep the feeder in the vicinity of the nestbox during the move. I will greatly appreciate any comments on this venture. Joe Baker SW VA.

From: JOHN & BARBARA SIBIO [mailto:jsibio"at"comcast.net]
Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 12:47 PM
Subject: Possible to move nestbox during incubation?

A few years back, at my previous home, we noticed that the nestbox needed a new base but didn't get it replaced before the first, early nesting.  We waited until the chicks fledged, and took it down the next day to replace the base.  While my husband was doing this, in the yard, next to the post, the male bluebird arrived with grass in his beak to start nest #2.  He landed on the top of the post, and sat there patiently.  We got the nestbox back up in a short time and he proceeded to build the new nest.  Didn't seem to bother him at all!  We all put a small umbrella over the nestbox when the weather gets really hot, and that doesn't deter them either.  They are quite flexible. Barbara in Cloverdale, CA

From: Phil Berry [mailto:mrtony8"at"mchsi.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 6:17 AM
Subject: Re: Installing Baffles on poles with babies in the nests.

On my rounds yesterday I found one box to be leaning, 20 pounds of concrete and all. A large sprinkler head nearby seems to have washed away the sand and exposed the post. The entrance hole was 180 degrees off. On my way home from work I bought a 40  lb bag of concrete mix and loaded the golf cart with it and tools. About 6 PM I drove up to the box. Mom and Dad were within 20 feet, watching intently, as I dug a new hole and put the box in it. I mixed the entire bag of concrete mix and sealed it up. They never budged or even seemed nervous. Upon completion, I watched from distance to see what they would do. After 3-4 minutes, Dad flew to the box with a bug in his mouth, went right in, and emerged with a fecal sac. These kids are only about two days old. No problem here. Phil Berry

From: John Schuster [mailto:wildwingco"at"earthlink.net]
Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 10:59 AM
Subject: Re: Creosote covered utility poles

[in response to a post that someone had placed nestboxes on utility poles without asking permission] ...

I think Dottie might be onto something with the of the creosote, plus, higher up (in the food chain) predators will not be deterred, so having metal flashing around the poles will help. However, my input is on the legality of placing nesting boxes on power poles, so here we go.

Sorry, but technically you do not own the power poles. They are owned by your local power company, so you have no legal right to place nest boxes there without expressed written permission from your local power company.

You could let it slide and just do what you want, but then what if you have nest boxes full of baby birds and your local power company comes out to service the power poles???

They sees the nest boxes, call in their finding to the local stuffed shirt sitting behind a deck drinking coffee, stuffing his face full of Krispy Kreme Doughnuts and guess what the bureaucrat with Krispy Kreme sticky fingers tells his field crew to do, "Get those boxes off our power poles." Remember these people do not care about much of anything except their own position within their company.

Now comes the dreaded knock on the door and THEY TELL YOU TO "REMOVE THOSE BOXES OR ELSE!" YIKES! That would be disastrous for you and our conservation efforts.

Many times I'm asked by my customers "Can't we use the power poles?" and we generally do not use them because of liability, and believe me most of my customers live in remote areas like you.

If you must use the poles, be up front about it. I would recommend that you contact your local power company (in person) and explain what it is that you would like to do and see what happens. Use catch words or phrases like "Conservation efforts" or "Improve the local Ecology" or "Preservation of threatened cavity nesting birds" anything that implies "Conservation" "Ecology" "Preservation "Threaten" as words mean something particularly to companies that have a bad rep. on "Environmental Concerns." Once you lay your cards on the table, they may just give you the green light (as long as the nest boxes are not an impediment.)

Please do not tell them that you are already doing it (be a little sly) otherwise the bureaucrat with Krispy Kreme sticky fingers will shut you down. Better to be up front and know than to pay a heavy price for your folly later.

Oh one last thing, you can place nest boxes on telephone poles (different from power poles as there is only a telephone line on it) as most telephone poles are owned by the landowner.

As for me and most on the Bluebird L web ring, few of us use trees or wood poles preferring steel EMT to reduce predation.

I'd like to take the time to personally apologize to all the Krispy Kreme Doughnut lovers out there. I was just using Krispy Kreme Doughnuts to make a visual comic point. I've always heard about Krispy Kreme Doughnuts, but I never had a Krispy Kreme Doughnut, until my installation team found out and insisted that I try some. So on one weekend we picked some up on way to an installation, at a local Krispy Kreme Doughnut factory, hot right out of the oven and in my opinion that is the only way to have them. They are good, so when we drive by the Krispy Kreme Doughnut factory, I treat the installation team on the weekends before heading the vineyards.

Cheers and as always...

Happy Trail To You,

John Schuster
Wild Wing Company

From: birdwatcherfc"AT"netscape.net
Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 12:29 PM
Subject: Nest boxes on utility poles

Hello, Don't know about your neck of the woods but here in Pennsylvania it is illegal to attach anything to utility poles (It's OK to put up yard sale signs with string or tape - NO NAILS). Objects and nails are hazardous to the utility workers and there is a hefty fine for putting items there. The utility company has a right-of-way and and you are not permited to interfere with their access to said line even if it crosses your property. Check your deed. Fred (Southern PA)

From: Bruce Burdett [mailto:blueburd"at"tds.net]
Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 3:40 PM
Re: House Wren Competition

I sense from both the tone and the content of many of the Messages I read here that a majority of folks don't consider putting their houses on other folks' property. WHY IS THIS? ALL my houses (72) are on other folks' property. Our own lot has NO Bluebird habitat at all (zero), so I have no choice. I always ask the owners' permission, and I've never been refused. These people, I find, are either pleased, delighted, or VERY delighted. I make new friends, and I get gifts of jellies, jams, fresh raspberries, strawberries and blueberries, oven-fresh pies, a few excellent quiches, and homemade red wine. I have been the subject of newspaper articles, and I've been interviewed on local radio, indirectly because of my Bluebird clients' connections. The lady who wrote my pages in Bluebird Monitor's Guide heard about me from a Sunapee lady who has two pairs of my houses in her field. So it goes. Give it a try. You must have people in your town with some fine Bluebird habitat that's going un-used. A number of my "army" had never seen a Bluebird in their lives before I put up houses on their acreage. They're ecstatic, and they think I'm wonderful, despite my age and scruffy appearance. Bruce Burdett, SW NH

From: David M Lang [mailto:dmlang"at"csc.com]
Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2004 3:37 PM
Subject: looking for advice in Connecticut

I was looking for any advice in attracting bluebirds. I've had 8 boxes on my property for at least 7 yrs. A few times in early march I would get a pair to start a nest for a few days then they would leave (one year due to a wren, the other times they would just leave). I would see them on the phone wires checking things out but they never seem to stick around. I know they like open spaces which is probably my problem, as my property is pretty wooded. Any suggestions would be appreciated. I'd really like to witness what you all are talking about. thanx, -dave

From: Bruce Burdett [mailto:blueburd"at"tds.net]
Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2004 8:32 PM
Subject: Re: looking for advice in Connecticut

David, et al, I have NEVER had Bluebirds nest on our property since we moved to NH in 1988 for the simple reason that it's too wooded. I have one house in our back yard, and it's almost always taken by Chickadees. I've never even SEEN a Bluebird here. But I have 72 houses in the Township, and I have good success with them. All the houses that I've put up which aren't well out in the open are taken by either House Wrens or Tree Swallows or Chickadees. I've gradually moved them somewhere else. Even when we lived in Simsbury CT for 37 years I never had Bluebirds nest in a place that wasn't in the open. Down there it was ALWAYS House Wrens. They were everywhere. Bruce Burdett, SW NH

From: Bet Zimmerman [mailto:ezdz"at"charter.net]
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2004 2:42 PM
RE: looking for advice in Connecticut

I've had more house wren attempts than ever this year (lots of dummy nests on my trail) but here the house wrens generally nest after the bluebirds have finished their first brood. Bluebirds (and house sparrows) don't like heavily wooded areas.... Blues like open spaces for hunting. I do have 4 boxes in a Christmas tree farm that are being used by blues. Feeding mealworms might entice them to hang out and nest .... And putting the nestbox in the most open space you can find (which may be in a neighbors yard....) Bet from Woodstock Valley, CT http://www.sialis.org

From: judymellin [mailto:judymellin"at"netzero.net]
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2004 11:29 AM
Re: looking for advice in Connecticut

We had a fellow here in NE IL. who worked for the Cook County Forest Preserve District and whose specialty was birds. Jerry went back through old records, letters, journals, etc., from the early settlement days and found the birds that were considered savanna, or open woodland birds, and the Eastern bluebird was one of them. After all, they are cavity nesters so they had to be somewhere with trees! I have documented blues nesting in cavities in an open woodland and they were magnificent, flying through the dappled sunshine through the mighty oaks. What I think is keeping them out of open woods now is the condition of the woodland floor. Beginning in 1989, we had been working for many years to restore the woodland and lots of brush cutting and burns had done amazing things. The birds were able to ground-glean with no problems and they nested in there for two years. However, just before the blues started using the woodland in 1997, we had a political moratorium on all restoration work from 1995 to 1996. Even after the moratorium was lifted, there was no burning for another three years. And, during that period, the brambles went crazy, taking over every open space. After documenting nesting by blues in 1997 and 1998, I saw blues during nesting season in 1999 and flying through the woods the next year but, since then, they have been absent from the woodland. I'm not sure they'll ever come back from the boxes to nest in their natural home but I am ever hopeful. Judy Mellin NE IL.

From: Dottie Roseboom [mailto:rosedot"at"mtco.com]
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2004 4:53 PM
Re: looking for advice in Connecticut

Dave, I think that Judy's advice about maintaining the proper flora UNDERNEATH a wooded property, helps in attracting bluebirds. I've seen prescribed burns at 3 - 4 year intervals work wonders on oak savannas, allowing native vegetation & birds access once again to this habitat. It's a beautiful sight to see bluebirds flying through magnificent oak trees. However, I'm not familiar enough with Connecticut to know if this would help in your situation. Have you noticed if the birds' departure correlates with brush build-up? Do you have many invasive lower-story plants (honeysuckle, Russian Olive, etc.) that might be leafing out about the time that the blues leave? If so, you might try contacting The Nature Conservancy, your state Department of Natural Resources, or a local native-plant group to help you re-establish a more natural woodland. I would also double-check the house sparrow population. I have seen many locations with bluebirds arriving in March, starting nests, and abandoning them, because of sparrow harassment. Sometimes the harassment is easily observable with a dominant male sitting on a nestbox, chirping, & dive-bombing everything. Other times, it's more a sneak attack, ones that most people never notice. The male never chirps, and never sits on the nestbox, but just pecks at the female bluebird whenever her mate is absent. This spring, I observed a new maneuver by a male HOSP. He just merely sat in the entrance hole of a nestbox occupied by tree swallows. Wouldn't budge, unless I got within a few feet of the nestbox. I allowed him to sit there for 4 hours before dispatching. If you are not able to entice the bluebirds to stay around, maybe move your nestboxes to a better location (Bruce has lots of good stories on how to do this) and look into chickadees, warblers, and woodpeckers for your own property. Good luck. Dottie Roseboom Peoria IL (central - zone 5)

From: Bet Zimmerman [mailto:ezdz"at"charter.net]
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2004 2:42 PM
RE: looking for advice in Connecticut

I've had more house wren attempts than ever this year (lots of dummy nests on my trail) but here the house wrens generally nest after the bluebirds have finished their first brood. Bluebirds (and house sparrows) don't like heavily wooded areas.... Blues like open spaces for hunting. I do have 4 boxes in a Christmas tree farm that are being used by blues. Feeding mealworms might entice them to hang out and nest .... And putting the nestbox in the most open space you can find (which may be in a neighbors yard....) Bet from Woodstock Valley, CT http://www.sialis.org

One of our trail managers is putting up a new trail on a golf course and just called me and asked if it would bother the birds for the nestbox to be near the night light. I remember this being discussed several years ago, but cannot remember all the details. I need some advice ASAP as they are putting some of them up today. Anyone have one near a night light?

Thanks,

Evelyn Cooper
Delhi, LA

Evelyn,

It is up to the bird. You have some that do not like it and some that do like it .
With the lights on the bugs come out and the blues have all the bugs they need for the babies.

Maynard Sumner
Flint, MI

HI Evelyn and All, It seems what I remember of those posts were that the extra light made the birds think the days were longer and that the breeding season was moving along faster than it really was... or something to that affect.

I expect a report of a first egg any day. We have many reports of full nests and lots of CLAIMSTRAWS! People are seeing Bluebirds everywhere.

The Huricane Memorial Bluebird Trail...I just got a report from a Monitor that is over the DeSoto County 8 boxes and also Hardy County 7 boxes a total of 14 miles, is up and running!!! I hope in the future that we can get the northern part of Hardy county now connected, because this Trail is now only a few miles away from the Ona Trail. Ken in DeSoto has just done a fantastic job of getting this Trail going. I am so proud of his work in getting this done... now I am singing... "I wish you Bluebirds... in the Spring"......

Christy Sarasota, FL

From: Tree Greenwood [mailto:doctree"at"crosslink.net]
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 7:40 AM
Subject: Re: Bluebirds (.. & other birds) And Night Lights

My experience is that Bluebirds and Swallows take advantage of the insects that are attracted by the lights when they're feeding young. I know Tree Swallows and Purple Martins often prefer light which tends to discourage predators (read about their urban roosts in South America and the pre-migratory roosts on lighted bridges or in Oklahoma City center). Although I have no personal experience with Bluebirds in lighted nestboxes, I strongly suspect they will adapt easily.

AN OFF-TOPIC STORY: If you ever venture near Warrenton VA in the spring or summer after dusk, go down 'Business US-29' and look up at the flagpole on 'Hospital Hill.' The flagpole is huge, perhaps 80' or more. Situated half way up the hill, it's surrounded by spotlights pointing up at the flag (which, by the way, I oppose, preferring dark sky for stargazing).

When there is a bit of haze, fog or smog, the spotlights create an inverted cone of light that becomes filled with millions of insects.

In spring and early summer, add thousands of bats and swallows zooming through the clouds of insects. The entire 'cone' seems alive. If you can see it when conditions are right, it's spectacular and memorable.

Take care,

R J 'Tree' Greenwood

Catlett VA

From: Elizabeth Zimmerman [mailto:ezdz"at"charter.net]
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 8:57 AM
Subject: RE: Bluebirds And Night Lights - Light Pollution

See http://www.celfosc.org/biblio/bio/020420sciweek.htm - very interesting article "Deprived of Darkness The unnatural ecology of artificial light at night" by Ben Harder

This is from a webpage I did for the local Conservation Commission:

Night time outdoor light pollution is a significant and growing problem worldwide, in both rural and urbanized areas. Artificial nighttime lighting affects biological rhythms of animals and humans and also reduces our ability to see the night sky.

DO

• Install energy-efficient, fully-shielded lighting fixtures outdoors. They reduce glare by directing light downward where it is needed.
• Install lights only where necessary, and use motion-detection fixtures if possible.
• Position outdoor light fixtures so they uniformly illuminate the intended area.
• Use high-efficiency lamps when possible. They last longer and use less energy than regular lamps. Look for low-pressure or high-pressure sodium lamps with full-cutoff luminaires.
• For post-style lamps, use a fixture with an opaque top to help direct light downward.
• For billboards and signs that are illuminated at night, use top-mounted lights that are focused downward onto the board.

DON'T

• DON'T create "light trespass" onto neighboring areas.
• DON'T turn on lights when they are not needed.
• DON'T illuminate signs after 10 p.m. or before 6 a.m.

Bet from CT

I have a Bluebird house on the back of my mailbox by the road which is about 30 feet from a post lamp that comes on at night and hasn't seemed to deter or bother them in the last Four years. Plus diffused light from the street lights as well. That has been my experience.
Doug in Kensington, Maryland

Bet, Thanks for this excellent post. I've read many articles about light pollution & migrating birds. Although Bluebirds can probably adapt to night lights, many other species can not.

Airports are a major contributor of light pollution. We live about 3 miles from one and usually don't need any additional night lights.

Dottie Roseboom
Peoria IL (central - zone 5)

Pollution is not the only problem. It causes many deaths by window and building strikes. Birds are drawn to light and many are killed by striking these objects. Most towers now are required to have strobe lights for that reason.

Evelyn

I don't think that is too close at all....
I have a house 10 feet from my bedroom window and another 15 feet (they are
paired) and I've had both bluebirds and swallows nest in each of them.
Nothing like waking up in the am to that beautiful song and seeing that flash of blue

=) joy m. in cedar springs, michigan ...

From: Snoopy [mailto:snoopy"at"wmis.net]
Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 12:06 PM
Subject: A new dilemma.

Okay, I know, I know,
I was complaining for weeks about not having my blues here. And then they finally came... but now I have a new dilemma.....

Nestboxes 1 and 2 are paired, about 20 feet from each other. Mr. Bluebird 1 wants nestbox 1 and Mr. Bluebird 2 wants nestbox 2. Will this work???

I have always had bluebirds and swallows nest in these two similtaneously (forgive my crappy spelling) but never had bluebirds nest at the same time in paired boxes.
Has anyone ever had this work successfully??

I can see advantages (in fighting off HOSP and stuff) but then I can see them fighting for territory too.

Oh, and so far I've only seen ONE Mrs....

=) joy m. in cedar springs, michigan =)

Are they fighting? Can you move one box further away, or put up a third box, out of sight of the other two? I have two paired sets - and my Bluebirds have never even allowed another Bluebird pair to take one of the boxes on the other side of the yard, out of their sight, let alone the other box of the paired set. The TRES usually occupy one of each paired set, and the fourth one has always gone empty. I'm hoping either the BCCH or TUTI that frequented my feeder this winter for the first time might inhabit the orphan box this year.

Cher

Well these are just 2 nestboxes out of the 8 on my property. I have had them nesting in others at the same time, just not right next to each other. There hasn't been any fighting yet.... but that is what I am most nervous about.

Maybe they are just roosting in them right now???
We are only now starting to get nice days.

Hello Joy,

Although I have not had the identical experience, I'm told that it is most likely that they will not nest that close to each other. I've heard that 100 to 150 yards is the required distance between boxes.

It can be closer, if the boxes are not within sight of each other.

Bruce Macdonald, SW Ontario, near Detroit, N shore of Lake Erie

Bruce,
I would add one thing, from my own perspective.
I would say "100 to 150 yards is the required distance between *pairs* of boxes." That works well for me in New Hampshire.
Bruce Burdett, SW NH

From: KCBSP"at"aol.com [mailto:KCBSP"at"aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 11:33 PM
Subject: Re: A new dilemma

Joy,

It's very early right now.  They are more than likely checking things out and one male probably shall win.  It's common.. They are competing.  I have seen them nest out of sight in a smaller yard but doubt that's common.  You know the rest of the story.  Hope that answers your questions.

Kathy Clark, New Cumberland, PA

From: John Schuster [mailto:wildwingco"at"earthlink.net]
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 10:30 AM
Subject: Re: Coexisting cavity nesting species, pairing and entry hole sizes.

Dear Barbara,

Last year we had 1 of 6 paired sets of nest boxes that had both Western Bluebirds and Violet Green Swallows. This nest box location is our oldest with over 10 years of fledged Bluebirds. Nest boxes spacing is 15 feet apart.

I have to admit that the Western Bluebird is a territorial lunatic (and I say lunatic with much affection.) However, either our Western Bluebirds are slowing down at this location or they have in fact excepted their avian neighbors 15 feet away.

Also if you read the books about Western Bluebirds they say to space nest boxes 200 yard (600 feet apart) apart. We've been able to space ours 100 yards (or 300 feet) apart with great successes. We attribute this to the vineyard foliage that obscures visibility preventing in fighting between neighboring male Western Bluebirds. ...

John Schuster

Dear John,

I'm limited by my small lot size. I think the only reason I have any
bluebirds at all is the fact that I have open space behind me, and a park
across the street. I have the two nestboxes on poles at opposite sides of
my back yard, with a porch in between them. They aren't separated enough
for two pair of bluebirds, but I thought perhaps I'd be able to provide a
nestbox for some other cavity nester. The bluebirds aren't going along with
my plan. Maybe, in time, they too will become more tolerant if they feel
safe.

My neighbor, one door up, agreed to put up a nestbox and monitor it, but he
hasn't had any takers. I gave him The Bluebird Monitor's Guide, and he's
reading it. I think he has the box in the wrong location, and I'll have to
discuss this with him. He added an extension to a fence post and put the
box on it (!). Actually, it's not that bad as it is high enough above the
top rail to be safe from most mammalian predators, but I think it is too
close to the tree line behind our homes, and too close to the walking path
also. He's disappointed that he has no tenants so far, and that will make
it easier for me to move it. They have a pond, and the bluebirds bathe
there all the time, so I think they will eventually nest on his property.

We don't have foliage to help block the view of the nestboxes, yet, but
we've all planted trees which will do the trick in time. In the meantime,
I'm spreading the good word as much as possible. And, I do have an egg!

Barbara, in Cloverdale, CA

From: Chris&Crystal Hill [mailto:crystaljhill"at"msn.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 7:40 AM
Subject: Nestbox Question

If a nest box is moved after a pair of blues have been checking it out for about 4-5 days will they find the box and still be interested?

Have any of you moved a box to find they still used it?

Well the reason behind the question, we have a box that my hubby said would be the perfect spot it is on a pole with baffle but very close to a small tree. The tree just bothers me. I can see cats and all kind of critters climbing the tree to get to the box. While it might seem nice to have the branches to perch and the cover of leaves, reason behind his perfect location............
I got him to move it yesterday evening. Now the box is in the wide open space of our small yard not near any trees.
The blues showed up this morning on the tree where the box was at. I felt so sorry for them, but they had not started nest building yet, so I am hoping they go to the box where it is moved. They can see it from the tree which is good.

Thanks-
Crystal Hill
Social Circle, Georgia

From: Bruce Burdett [mailto:blueburd"at"verizon.net]
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 8:08 AM
Subject: Re: Nestbox Question

Crystal,
As long as the birds have not yet begun to build their nest, I doubt that moving the house will disturb them much. I find them remarkably adaptable. I have replaced and moved an entire vandalized house and nest and the Bluebirds went right on with their plans as if nothing had happened. I built the new nest myself out of clean, dry grasse, and they accepted it readily.

Bruce Burdett SW NH

Yes, I've had two nest boxes knocked down accidently and put up new
boxes and right away the BB's took them and nested.

Dottie, Brown Co. Indiana

There has been some discussion of proper box placement for
EABL. I remember hearing at least 100 ft. from the nearest treeline,
and 100 yds between boxes in open areas. I have some open
pasture, and have been reluctant to place them too far out because
I thought the fledglings need to have something nearby to get them
off the ground on their first flight.

While trying to keep the boxes in the open, but not too too far from
trees, I usually get other species nesting before the bluebirds do.
This year most of my boxes are already occupied by titmouses,
chickadees and Ash throated flycatchers, even though bluebirds
are in residence and checking out things.
What is the maximum distance the fledglings can fly on their
emergence?
Thanks,
Jim Garriott
Boerne, TX

From: elizabeth.young "at"spotplus.com [mailto:elizabeth.young "at"spotplus.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 5:10 PM
Subject: Move Nestbox?

Currently blues just looking but no takers yet. But looked out window last night and realized that our very bright spotlight that lights up a large part of the backyard (no I cannot turn off or change direction of light) is shining right on one of the primary PVC nestboxes the blues have been looking at. The direction of the light shines into the hole of the nestbox which is the only direction I can face the nestbox. Should I move the PVC nestbox? I wouldn't think the bird would like almost daylight conditions both day and night.

they put up with a lot of stuff from us. i have at least one box on the golf course that allows sprinkler water to flow right through the entrance hole. one day i watched to see what would happen, as the box is always being used. i knew there were four babies in there, and the box was always wet. when finally i did see the water on, i waited until it hit the box. full force, right in the hole!!! i quickly opened it as soon as the water had passed the box. inside were four 12 day old babies with their heads buried in the nest, tails in the air. apparently they knew just what to do whenever the water hit the box. they fledged successfully. i turned it around so the hole was facing in the opposite direction.

Phil Berry
Pensacola, Florida

Evelyn,

I am asking you because you seem to be so knowledgeable---I am new to this email group. I have a question. This is my second season as a BlueBirder, so I am a novice. I have a pair that started building in one of my houses, but today started building in another only a short distance away. I prefer the first location that they chose, my dog can not reach it and I have prime

viewing from my kitchen windows. Why would they build two nests, and would it make them 'run away from home' if I emptied the second one that she is working on today?? The one today is right where we get in and out of our pool, so lots of screaming teenagers this summer will be RIGHT there. I only hung that house there because last year I had trouble with HOSP attacking my EABL, and my mentor, Jerry Newman, came to my rescue and put up that house as a distraction. Any advice you and the group could share would be appreciated!
Sherry Kanaras

I could not help but smile reading your description of them not choosing the one you intended. From time to time, we are reminded that the little birds don't read the book. It is not at all unusual for them to start a nest in both boxes. I've had them build a half nest, abandon it and start another
one in a nestbox nearby. I guess the female has a hard time making up her mind, or sometimes it could be other reasons like wasps, another bird harassing them or just being like a lot of females, change her mind.

It is also not unusual for them to pick one of the busiest nestboxes you've placed. I have 6 on Cooper Rd where there is lots of traffic and they are always picked and full up and others I think are more suitable are not chosen first or not until the second cycle. There's one in my backyard that
gets lots of traffic past it, but it does not phase them.

What is the one hanging on that you refer to? Is it protected by a guard? Do you have climbing predators? If you are uncomfortable with it being that close to the pool, moving it a few feet will not deter the birds. I would try to do that before any eggs are laid if you can. When handling nestboxes
with eggs, utmost care should be taken. If you have climbing predators, a predator guard is a must. If you need help finding them, let me know.

I hope this helps and I am copying this to the list as you indicated their advice would be appreciated too. We welcome you to BB-List!!

Evelyn
P.S. I would not remove any nesting material they put there. She will decide.

From: Nina Everett
Date: May 2005
RE: Placement of nestboxes

I am very confused about where to place my nest boxes. I have never seen a TRES, a HOSP or a HOWR, don't see many EABL's. A pair did build a nest in one of my boxes and laid five eggs. After four days they abondoned the nest.
Finally cleaned out the nest. That was about four weeks ago. Moved another box 50 ft. away from that one. Had some EABL's check out both boxes a week ago but haven't seen them since. A friend told me the boxes are too close together. They are in an open area of my back lawn facing southeast with easy access to a tree with a perching sight. high above. They used this when watching the other nest. Should I move one of the boxes farther away? Have some tufted titmice buit they have shown no interest in one of my boxes.
Have been reading about everyone having all of these birds and am very discouraged. Maybe I am just not in a good area. Don't know what to do.
Thanks for any help you might be able to give.
Nina NC

From: agriffee [mailto:agriffee"at"adelphia.net]
Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2005 1:02 PM
Subject: Box placement

A couple of the boxes I placed last faced a lake very close to water. Faced this way to keep opening downwind. Can Blues fledge with open water in front when first fledge?
Arnold, Kentucky …

Went out scouting to see where will place boxes tomorrow. Could not locate suitable place on the pond that I intended to place two boxes. Is it ok to put box between two trees about 20 ft apart? A few branches overhead. Box would also be on edge of water. …

Also meant to inquire about placement about 30 ft from subdivision rd? Not heavily traveled, about six houses back there. On pond edge with tree 40 ft away.
Arnold, Kentucky

FROM: Tree Greenwood
Sent: June 19, 2005
RE: Box Placement

On Sun 19 Jun 2005 at 21:36, "Arnold"
<agriffee"at"adelphia.net> wrote:
> Went out scouting to see where will place boxes tomorrow. Could not
> locate suitable place on the pond that I intended to place two boxes.
> Is it ok to put box between two trees about 20 ft apart? A few
> branches overhead. Box would also be on edge of water.

Arnold, we need more info. What kind of trees?
How tall? Is the canopy low or high? Are the overhanging branches high, 15' or more above the nestbox, or low, just a few feet above it?

Probably not good to put a box under a nut tree, especially if the branches are low. Squirrels would probably be a nuisance and snake predation would be hard to prevent. I'd avoid that spot if the trees are oak, walnut, pecan, chestnut, etc. It might be OK partly under a pair of pines or maples if the canopy is high. It's not ideal but if it's the best available...

Oh, and the pond definitely isn't a problem, especially if you like Tree Swallows. Put on your hip waders and try planting a pole out in the water. It helps protect from rat snakes and some other predators. If you want Tree Swallows, face the hole out over the pond; to possibly attract Bluebirds, face the hole at a perch on the shore 10' or less away. A dead sapling is perfect as a perch. You'll have to learn if you have a problem with water snakes over time but most of them prefer amphibians to birds for their meals.

And on Sun 19 Jun 2005 at 21:40, Arnold also asked:
> Also meant to inquire about placement about 30 ft from subdivision rd?
> Not heavily traveled, about six houses back there. On pond edge with
> tree 40 ft away.

Lots of Bluebird trail boxes are placed along fence lines in rural areas just 10' or so from roads. As long as the area is mowed regularly, it sounds like a pretty good location although you may have to watch out for vandalism.

Take care,

R J 'Tree' Greenwood
Catlett VA

Evelyn Cooper
Delhi, LA

Sounds like a good placement as long as you don’t face the entrance toward the road. Having a tree near gives the fledglings something to fly to when they finally leave the nestbox. Many birds, tree swallows especially, like to be near water.

Kate Arnold
Paris, TX, 100 mi NE of Dallas

I think Arnold was concerned that the babies would have to fledge across water to a tree. I can't remember, but in this case, to me if it could be placed any other direction it would be best. I have seen some come out of the box and could not quite make it to the tree. They would hit the ground and then get up again. This does not happen too often, but it very well could. I have one placed right on the edge of a huge pond, but the fledglings do not have to fly across the water to fledge to the tree. Just a thought.

Evelyn Cooper
Delhi, LA

From: Bruce Burdett [mailto:blueburd"at"verizon.net]
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 10:57 AML
Subject: Re: 2nd house/ponds

Arnold, et al,
By all means put up the original box. Put up as many as you have room for.
I'm puzzled by your mention of not getting Tree Swallows "this far from a pond." Tree Swallows do seem to like ponds, but I've had them nest with no pond within a mile or more. They *like* them, but they don't *need* them.

Bruce Burdett, SW NH

I'll check again today, but last count was four eggs and for some reason I
seem to always get exactly four eggs. One thing that concerns me is that
the farmer who owns the farm that surrounds mine just mowed the fields and
the hawks are showing up. I suppose I shouldn't be too awful concerned,
though, because they are big red-tailed hawks and they haven't been cruising by my open area near the house, but in the hay fields, picking off juvenile
rabbits. In turn, they are also keeping the crows busy chasing and mobbing
them across the field. We have a bumper crop of rabbits this year, the
most I've seen in many years. Babies of all sizes virtually everywhere.
And it's sure bringing in the predators. My husband came in the other
morning and described "the biggest owl I've ever seen in my life with at
least a 3' wingspan" sitting atop the barn at dawn. When you get one out
in the open like that, you realize just how darn big a Great Horned Owl is.
I suppose GHO has also figured out there are hundreds of small rabbits
hiding in the tall grass around the barn.

This is when you worry a bit about how bluebirds prefer to nest right in the open and stand on guard atop of their boxes all the time.

Autumn in Kentucky

Please explain, Larry, why you state you wouldn't put up a bluebird trail in town?
Linda Violett
Yorba Linda, Calif.

Linda in Yorba Linda (just had to say that) and bluebirdsters:

TIME is the only reason that I don't have - or encourage for others - bluebird trails in town.
HOSP need to be more than passively controlled at times and I work six and sometimes seven days a week, so, my hobby, studying birds, takes a backseat big time right now.

EABL nest in town successfully at times without our assistance. We've had them in our backyard too - with assistance a lot of the time.

So, if a person has time to monitor and control, plus educate the property owners, give programs, etc., bluebird trails in town can work.
But that's a lot of TIME I don't have. Plus, Linda, in order to develop that trail in town without making a whale of a lot of costly mistakes, a person should have a mentor. There goes that TIME factor again...

Good birding, Larry H. Joplin MO.

Hi folks,
As I have stated before this has been my learning summer regarding bluebirds and nestboxes, etc.
I have read the bluebird monitors guide, searched the internet and have done some research on my own.

I am proposing to install and monitor nestboxes at my town hall, which is about 20 acres of mowed grass with a lake, there are no trees in the middle of the grass field because the community uses it for other functions, like soccer teams practice there, sometimes there is a carnival, in full nesting season they hold once a week a movie for the residents, you know things like that.

Here is my problem; I know to help eliminate house wren competition there should be spacing from the forested area and the nestboxes themselves, I think I read somewhere it should be about 100 feet from the woods; however if I do that I may have problems getting the trail approved; obviously because the town mows the field, keeping it neat, and the poles may interfere with the tractors that mow it....

Is it still feasible to line the perimeter of the field with paired nestboxes and still attract and maintain bluebirds, or am I wasting my time? Should I look into another area?

Anyone have any ideas?

George

George L. Smith III
I live in: New Jersey My zone is: Z6b NJ

Hi, George,

My first question would be, Are House Wrens nesting in those wooded areas? If not, no problem... with HOWR, anyway. From your description of the area, the greatest problem may be stray soccer balls, curious children, careless landscaping crews and such rather than HOWR. House Sparrows are more likely to be compeditors than House Wrens.

If your focus is only on EABB, you may want to try to find another area. If your goal is to provide homes for all cavity-nesting birds, my inclination would be to put up some boxes very early next spring and see what happens. Choose the best locations you can find, some compromise between what's ideal for Bluebirds and what's practical for the City Hall park area where you'll place the boxes.

My best guess is that your boxes will attract a variety of cavity nesting birds. If you place a dozen Bluebird boxes, only 2 or 3 may fledge EABB but most of the others will likely be occupied by Chickadees, Tree Swallows or other cavity nesters... including House Sparrows.
You'll have to monitor often to do tear-outs of the HOSP nests since I doubt trapping will be practical.

Because you have a bit of time to prepare, you may want to try for more than just permission to put up the trail. Contact the 'Parks and Recreation' department to see if they might officially sanction the trail. Maybe you can get them to try to get the community certified http://www.nwf.org/backyardwildlifehabitat/community.cfm
as a National Wildlife Federation (NWF) wildlife habitat. See if you can get the local Gardening Club involved. Rally members of NWF and the Audubon Society to support your trail. Get the Parks & Rec Department to put out press releases about how great they are to support your plan (they like doing things like that). Allies from other organizations and the community will help protect the boxes from unintentional interference with nesting birds and hopefully from vandalism.

Good luck with your project!

R J 'Tree' Greenwood
Catlett VA

I don't know how read you are, but the HOWR thing is an area of debate. 100 ft is not set in stone by any means. People have tried very hard to establish "the" number about how to avoid HOWR. But there isn't really a number. Some people might just as easily tell you that number is more like 20, 30, or 50 ft. I personally would place your boxes as far away from the thrush as possible but get your trail approved! I would never say it's a waste of time just because the boxes are somewhere between 6-99ft from some brush. (Anything closer than that and your concern will probably be predators jumping from branches rather than HOWR)

As a side note, these are the boxes I would call a waste of time, or perhaps even worsening the situation: unmonitored trails, or boxes that are completely surrounded by neighborhood, aka HOSP infested area. But even still, our cavity nesters don't read the book - even in the worst places, you may still have successful nesting. Have faith, get your trail approved, and monitor!

Here's my advice about trapping, which is biased to my personal experience, and very very reliant on my commitment to my boxes. If you have the time, and you're getting a lot of HOSP, I strongly encourage you to trap and trap and trap in the early spring. It made such a huge difference, and we did seem to literally wipe out a local HOSP population by excessive trapping. And I mean excessive - possibly 50 HOSP from only 2 boxes in one area. But to me, it was worth it, not only for making the boxes availble for later nesting TRES and EABL (at least in my area), but for what it may do to future populations.

Obviously, all that trapping is lots of work, and takes a lot of commitment, because getting a little lazy can get you into sticky situations, like baby HOSP, which are much more heart renching to dispose. But don't let this scare you - I have had boxes where very little trapping did all the good with the same amount of results, simply (in my opinion) because there were more native birds in the area to begin with. Some of my boxes really are a war... but a war I like to fight, especially if it feeds our local rehabbing animals O:-) And worse come to worse, if you find there's a box that just isn't working out for you - you can always move it. You don't have to trap if you don't want to. And as previously mentioned, you can try passive control, even though I think you'll find most people don't bother.

Kathy Haines
Central Ohio

Hi George,

There's already been some really good advice about House Wrens & getting the community behind the trail.
This post is specifically about the mowing.

Out at Fort Custer State Rec Area, 32 of my boxes are in a large fenced-in field that's mowed once every year or two (after nesting season). They use really huge mowers, brush hogs, & every year they knock a pole or 3.

On the other hand, the Community Wildlife department has bluebird trails on a half-dozen local golf courses. Those are mowed frequently but with much smaller equipment, & i've never seen a "hit by mower"
pole when i've covered those trails.

If you're really concerned about the grounds crews, talk your ideas over with them. Heck, on golf courses, it's the grounds supervisor who recommends good spots for the boxes, ones out of the way of
(most) golf balls & golf carts. (We decide if it's also a good place for the birds.) Also, the groundskeeper should know if there's any wires or pipes going under the park & exactly where they traditionally put up the movie screens & what sort of insecticide usage there is.

Plus, if the people responsible for day-to-day upkeep have signed on to your bluebird trail plan (or at least said they can easily mow around the poles), it'll be that much easier to get approval from the powers-that-be.

Personally, i think a "town hall" trail is a great idea. Back in the discussion about signs on boxes, Keith mentioned plastic tags where the monitor recorded what was going on so that park-goers could "be in the know". Maybe you could have 3 poles -- 2 for the paired boxes & 1 for the informational "data sheet". Once people feel connected to the birds in their park, they may well want to have birds of their own.

I would recommend, tho, that the boxes have doors secured with screws, not just with nails. Tougher to monitor (i've got 100+ boxes, so i pay attention to
that) but safer from the general public.

Good luck with this.

Torrey Moss
Kalamazoo Nature Center
Kalamazoo, MI

Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas
Torrey is so right about talking with the managers. We helped Mike Scarbrough set up an experimental bluebird trail on a golf course in Keller Tex north of Fort Worth right in the middle of a massive suburb about five years ago. The owners and manager were pretty "cool" to the idea of adding birds and or nestboxes to their plush golf course. They agreed to a trial year and we used standard flat roofed nestboxes made from nice looking 1"
rough cut yellow pine mounted on a rebar metal conduit pole combination.
This way the pole and box could easily and quickly be moved if there was a problem.

We tried to keep the thirty nestboxes in the rough and located in the out of the way spots along the course. The tiny creek and beautiful water traps looked like a great location for putting poles right in the waters edge as this would stop fire ants from reaching the birds and also stop a golfer with $150 pair of shoes from wading in the mud to vandalize the nestbox. We ONLY drove the rebar into the ground where they assured us that NO water, electrical or phone lines were buried!!!

I believe Mike had fifteen pairs of bluebirds the very first year and the manager got so many positive comments that they paid to replace all of the nestboxes with "nicer" looking, super heavy nestboxes made from "TREX"
lumber (sawdust and recycled plastics).. The "old common looking" nestboxes got moved to a walking trail several miles away.

One problem we found was that the "tiny" creek and actually the entire golf course was really a "flood plain" and several boxes with birds were lost in a flash flood!

In parks there are normally speed limit sign poles or on walking trails there are information sign poles that you can sometimes add an extension pole to these existing poles and actually get the boxes well above the reach of the average child. Most parks and golf course club houses have "information" boards where they often will allow you to put up posters and information about the nestbox trail and the birds you are trying to attract or help.

At a state park we would post the day and time of the next trail monitoring and sometimes like the Pied Piper you would have 15 to 20 children aged 4 to
74 following you around checking the boxes and asking questions! At the end you would ask them before they left to mention to the park rangers how much fun they had helping check the nestboxes!

Many parks are totally fenced and you can add poles into the perimeter fence line to keep the boxes away from lawn mowers.

Harry Krueger would buy a 21 foot long galvanized water pipe and cut it into three 7 foot long pieces. He bought bags of ready mixed concrete and used old one gallon coffee cans or vegetables tin cans and filled them full of wet cement in his carport. While the cement was soft he pushed the water pipe into the filled bucket and braced each pole so that it would stay straight while the cement hardened over night. He would then haul the pole with cement bucket attached out to the trail and CAREFULLY dig a hole so as not to cut a phone line or water line. Completely bury the cement and within a few months had a VERY durable mounting pole with the nestbox attached to the pole with double leg conduit clamps. If he wanted to remove the pole and cement he used a bumper jack and placed a heavy duty pipe wrench on the pole and jacked the cement out of the ground with the wrench for a long lever.

In areas where snakes are not a problem Bob Walshaw in Oklahoma is hanging his nestboxes from 24" to 36" below tree limbs out very near the ends of limbs on trees with the boxes 8 to 10 feet off the ground. By using a long wire attached to the box roof the nest is well below the leaves or limb and he uses a heavy hook to pull the limbs down to eye level to remove the box by hand instead of using a lifting pole to lower the nestboxes like Linda Violett does with her hanging nestbox trail in California. On Bob's trail he is now mostly urban and people have eliminated all snakes and most four legged predators from his trail area.

Nestbox Spacing: If HALF of your nestboxes are used at any time during the year in an area then you need to install more nestboxes no matter how many boxes are already there. KK

Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas

See related continuation of thread under House Wrens, Part 6

Keith,

Good suggestion for anchoring poles with cement, though there is a bit easier way of doing it. Instead of having to mix the cement, pour it into a pail (mold), then hauling the whole heavy thing to a hole that you've dug, I'd suggest a method I use successfully.

The tools are a little level (torpedo level is fine for vertical alignment, though the eye is pretty good), a spade or manual post hole digger and about 1/4 bag of quick-crete (Home Depot/Lowes) and a quart of water.

Dig a narrow (in width) shallow hole 8"-10" deep, then drive your pole into the center it. Drive it just deep enough so it'll stand up straight. Dump some of the dry quick-crete into the hole around the pole, splash some water, dump a little more crete, splash some more water until level with the ground.

No mixing, no mess. Within a day or so, the crete will wick enough moisture out of the gorund to setup very nicely. It works for 20'
purple martin poles (though I dig the hole deeper and drive the pole in a bit further).

It beats hauling around a big, heavy cement block and having to dig a big hole to stick it in. A little hole, a few pounds of cement in a pail and you're good to go.

Chuck

Chuck, et al,
Another method I like is to ream out a 1 ¼" diam. hole in the ground with my crow-bar (45 sec. ±) and drop the pipe - with box bolted on - into the hole.
(5 sec. ±) Total: about 1 minute. Very quick.
(I ream my holes down into the ground about 12" to 18".) Bruce Burdett, NH Bluebird Conspiracy

Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas
Schwegler makes a cement sawdust mix nestbox for cavity nesters. Here is a link to their webpage where they recommend how many nestboxes to hang in your garden or forest. Remember that Starlings and House Sparrows are native birds across the pond and read about their recommendations for location and nestbox types that research shows is optimum for raising these birds:-)) IF you avoid these locations for our native birds you might cut down on competition for nestboxes over here.

http://www.schwegler-nature.com/BirdCare/index.htm

What if you wanted to attract as many pairs of Tree Swallows as possible to an insect filled marsh? If you placed a grid of nestboxes spaced 40 feet apart each way then this would be 27 tree swallow nestboxes per acre. If the marsh has a one mile long shoreline then you could add three wood duck nestboxes near the marsh per mile of shore line. You might want to pair one bluebird nestbox with the tree swallow boxes to attract one pair of bluebirds for each 2>5 acres. Add another nestbox for titmice and chickadees for each acre of suitable open woodland habitat. Don't forget nuthatches if trees are in your area. Prothonatary Warblers nest in boxes in woodland swamps.

If you have a forest then up to 8 squirrels can thrive on every acre requiring four larger nestboxes per acre. Owls: how many species in your area and what size boxes do they need for nesting or roosting to hide from crows. They need a nestbox every 50 acres or so. Flying squirrels need a couple of nestboxes per acre of woods also.

Honey Bees need a large cavity about every 100 acres. Don't forget the bats that live in your area! Bumble bees, hornets and wasps sometimes use cavities.

Predators like skunks, possums, raccoons, fox use dens or hollow tree trunks to hide their young in. Rat Snakes prefer to hide or sleep in cavities both near/in the ground or high in tree trunks.

Of course woodpeckers need dead trees or old cavities to survive. Nearly every hole in the ground or cavity located high in the air will be used by some living creature and there is often fierce competition for each of these sometime during the year.
... Name the eighty species of cavity nesting birds in the USA:-)) KK

On a bluebird trail that I am expanding, should all the boxes point the same direction i.e. east facing opening is what I've read works best?
What do you think? Any other factors I should consider in which way to face the holes-

David
Old Chatham

All of my box are not the same. I put the hole facing so that it is not getting too much sun, too much wind and it is pointing at a tree.
Not all locations are the same.

Maynard Sumner
Flint, MI

Dear David,

All our nest boxes face east. I mount the nest boxes that way for several reasons.

1. The moon raises and sets east to west during the winter months and the sun raises and sets east to west during the summer month. In the reverse, the moon raises and sets south east during the summer months and the sun raises and sets south east during the winter months.

Now what does all that mean.

Facing your nest boxes east pretty much guarantees illumination to the front of the nest box all year long and that helps our cavity nesters (be they day time or nocturnal avian) find the nest in the morning (ie Bluebirds) when they are most active or at night (i.e.
Barn Owls) when they are active.

Frankly, I've positioned nest boxes is all kinds of directions, but I've been facing nest boxes east for so long that I'm convinced that it helps get our local cavity nesting birds in pronto. My record to date for attracting Barn Owls to a nest box is 24 hours, plus I've seen Western Bluebird landing on top of nest boxes with in a half hour after being installed.

2. The jet stream rarely if ever blows directly east to west so the front of the nest boxes is protected from the elements. This is very true of California and should hold true for most of the USA. If not, place your nest boxes to fit the situation.

3. As the sun is at it's zenith or sets in the west, a properly built nest box with sun shields or a nest box with proper ventilation
will be more comfortable for the birds inside if it is facing east.
This is very important when providing nest boxes for Barn Owls that are nesting in hot regions of the USA.

4. If at all possible, place the nest box between 2 trees or have the tree off to the left of the nest box. The reason for this is that having the tree off to the left gives more illumination to the front of the nest box from the south east (moon in summer or sun in
winter.) Having the nest box between two trees is taking advantage of what I call the Flight Corridor. A Flight Corridor is simply an avenue of least resistance for birds and placing the nest box there also helps to get them in fast.

...

John Schuster

I make sure my boxes are facing either northeast, east, southeast or south.
It is according to where the location is to the tree or building they can fledge to. I used to face them only northeast or east, but I have lots of good locations that they have to face southeast or south. The birds don't seem to mind one bit.

Evelyn Cooper
Delhi, LA

David, et al,
My entrances face in many directions. I agree with Evelyn. I ask myself: Does the box face a broad, open area? Is the hole easily visible? Is there a good-sized tree in sight from the hole? Where does the prevailing wind come from? etc. etc.
Bruce Burdett

From: RBALTRUNAS"at"cs.com [mailto:RBALTRUNAS"at"cs.com]
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 8:32 PM
Subject: Box spacing for EABL and other species

Hi friends,

I went out to install 5 more Bluebird boxes. I put one up and was working on the 2nd when I saw a pair of Carolina Chickadees and some other small grey birds start to explore #1 right away. The Chickadees actually looked in the hole. Then two pairs of bluebirds came and drove them off. Later this was interrupted by a Red headed woodpecker barging into the scuffle. The Woodpecker can't fit in the 1.5 inch hole and I have a steel plate around the hole so they can't widen it. So it left. At least one EABL entered #1. When I left #2 and started #3 the EABL went to #2 also.

Due to the presence of so many desperate birds. I am inspired to make more boxes and put them in that area. I forgot how far apart EABL boxes should be 100 or 1,000 ft.? These boxes are 100 ft apart. If they are too close for EABL in all then will the chickadees and other cavity nesters be able to nest near the EABL? I think so, but am I right? Can Chickadees be 50 ft or less from other Chickadees or EABL?

The Chickadees were with birds that looked like Blue Grey Gnatcatchers about the same size or smaller than the Chickadees. but they are cup nesters. what could these be?

Ron
Brooksville, FL

From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 5:33 AM
Subject: Re: Box spacing for EABL and other species

Ron, it is not feet. It is yards. NABS latest recommendations is 150 yards for EASL.

Pairing means about 10 to 25 ft. from the box. I think anything farther is not considered pairing.

Most EASL do not like to be in sight of each other. I have two boxes about 200 yards apart and in sight of each other. My husband places some equipment between them to block their view. If it is not there, they will not take both boxes. (This might not be everyone's situation)

Last year was the first time I had two pairs in my yard, which is a big yard. My house blocks them from seeing each other.

I still think you should plant a dead tree with cavities near your bluebird boxes to discourage the Woodpeckers from them. :<)) I adore Woodpeckers!

Everyone that does not have one should get "The Bluebird Monitor's Guide". We have a prospective new trail at a state park and I will deliver this book to him along with the units we are making. This man so graciously signed an agreement that if the boxes are not monitored and maintained, LBBS could take them down.

Evelyn

From: Bruce Burdett [mailto:blueburd"at"verizon.net]
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 6:55 AM
Subject: Re: Box spacing for EABL and other species

I think of "pairing" as being 10 to 20 feet between the two boxes of a pair. Anything greater than 20 is not paired, in my opinion.

I gather that in Florida Tree Swallow competition is not a problem. The chief purpose of pairing is to prevent Tree Swallow competition. Whether there are other competitors in Florida I have no idea.

Up here, single boxes placed more than 20 feet apart will almost certainly become Tree Swallow boxes. 100 feet or more apart is out of the question if you want to house Bluebirds.

Bruce Burdett, SW NH

From: Sara Ann [mailto:sawright"at"hughes.net]
Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2006 9:17 AM
Subject: Location of boxes

Keith wrote:

By providing a variety of nestboxes in an area where nestboxes out number the breeding pairs of ALL
types of cavity nesters you MIGHT find that one style of nestbox will be more attractive to certain
species from year to year or early in the season one style might have an advantage over the other
boxes when it comes to attracting/repelling say wasps, hornets or bumblebees.

Keith, it has been our experience that BB especially choose a box by location rather than type. Our
wrens will choose anything, even an open bag of potting soil!

Location definitely matters of course! Jim Garriott, a TX rancher who was at NABS, mentioned that
boxes by mowed grass get picked before boxes by long prarie grass.

I see definite preference when offered options of various styles, and when pairing. At my landfill
trail, I've offered regular NABS, Gilwood and Petersons. So far bluebirds have been picking
Peterson's and Gilwoods first. Gilberston's don't seem to be as big of a draw. Chickadees seem to
pick NABS (1.5" hole) or Gilberstons. Have only had titmice in wooden NABs boxes (and not often
enough.) Wrens in slot, Gilwood and NABS boxes.

I do see NABS boxes being used by bluebirds of course too.

Preference studies are really tough I think because of nest site fidelity and what birds are "used"
to. The best preference study would be in a big habitat that is consistent. Here in New England
there are lots of micro-location variables (near stream, different types of trees, roads etc.) even
within 100 yards of each box.

Bet from CT

Pros and Cons of various styles: http://www.sialis.org/nestboxproscons.htm

Steve,

I had bluebirds select a house I put up just to use with a Van Ert trap. She had laid 4 eggs and it got so hot she was constantly hanging out the entrance trying to stay cool but still protect the nest. It was probably warm enough in there that she didn't need to be incubating during the day.

This box was on an 8 foot cast iron 1/2" plumbing pipe pounded about 18" in the ground. I made new holes with a sledge hammer and two feet of pipe and over a day moved the nest box 6 feet at a time to about 30 feet from its original location to where it was shaded from full sun by a large oak tree. The mother didn't even move during several of the moves and now it's in a much healthier location. I think you could get away with moving a box.

I don't think birds think in terms of human measurements such as feet or minutes, and if they did they's use the metric system. I haven't found any magic spacing to what makes boxes "paired" or not. It depends on the slope of the land, natural cover, food abundance, how much surrounding land is good foraging territory, population densities of competitors and other cavity nesters. Just keep experimenting to see what works where you are and keep us posted.

Thanks,
Rob Barron

Hello,
I am new to the forum and quite new to the world of bluebirds.
Last spring when moving into my house in suburban Durham, NC (central NC), I placed a decorative bird house on the corner rail of my deck until I could get settled and hang it. (decent ventilation but no roof to open) Before I could do so, (within a week) a pair of bluebirds decided to nest in it. Soon after, there were 3 or 4 eggs in the nest, right there on my deck. Because my husband and I are fairly quiet, we managed to leave them alone and the babies grew up just fine (and long before our summer cookout).

This year, it appeared that the same pair came back (and I foolishly had not yet moved the bird house off the corner rails of the deck). They had four eggs, all of which hatched and were growing well. The birds didn't seem bothered by us being outside if we kept our distance. Then, the babies died after growing up a bit. I'm not sure if a fierce rainstorm that came through and blew the house several inches down the rail caused the parents to abandon the nest, or if the mother was killed. (I don't remember seeing her again). I wish I had realized what was going on sooner and tried to help the babies.. . We cleaned the nest out, and again, foolishly thought this was the end to the bluebirds on the deck.

Several days ago I noticed two very tiny babies in a brand new nest in the house! Both parents are feeding them although the female is much more nervous with me sitting quietly on the deck.
So, my questions are:

1. Is it possibly the same pair?
2. The female appears smaller and more brown- could it be a different pair or the same male with a new mate?
3. How can I best protect them (knowing how skittish the female is about feeding her babies) from the cookout we are having this weekend?
(including several rowdy children)--(which I never would have scheduled if I had realized the birds were back).
4. Is moving the house an option at this point? (I will absolutely do it at some point- very difficult lesson learned!!)

Thank you sincerely to anyone who can help me protect the birds!

Jessica Irven

Jessica,
It could be the same pair or at least one of the original pair. Bluebirds are not necessarily monogamous. Sometimes bluebirds won't reuse a nestbox where they weren't successful if there are other options in their territory, but apparently they had no other nestboxes to choose from.
I have moved nestboxes 20 feet from the original location due to construction in the area and the parents have found it. They can hear the nestlings. Keith Kridler, who regularly comments on this site, posted some information a few weeks ago about moving nestboxes even further than that.
He is a bluebird sage and has given me excellent advice in the past so you might want to ask him how best to complete the move. If you need his email address I can send it to you.

You might have to use a metal fence post to mount the box with a couple of nuts and bolts to make it freestanding and away from the deck.
Perhaps after moving the nestbox, you can rope the area off to avoid people coming too close. Also face the nestbox away from the activity.
After the cookout, I would leave the nestbox in its new location.

Bluebirds are resilient and excellent parents. It will be a stressful day for them but they will do what they have to do to feed their babies.
Sounds like time is running out for you! Good luck.

Carol
Oxford, Michigan

From: RBALTRUNAS"at"cs.com [mailto:RBALTRUNAS"at"cs.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 10:37 AM
Subject: 100 ft apart

I added 6 new houses near an open field this year and they are all 100 ft apart. I hoped for maybe 2 Blues nesting and other species. I got 2 EABL(3 nestlings and 2 nestlings) about 400 ft apart and this week added another EABL just 100ft from on of the others. 2 eggs so far in that new one. One box does not face the other and there is a very small tree blocking the visibility. And the poor EABL have nowhere else to go. 100ft is pretty close.

Ron
Brooksville, FL

Ron, in Fla.,
I guess you don't have Tree Swallows in Florida, do you? If I put my Bluebird houses 100 ' apart up here in NH I'd get nothing but Tree Swallows. All my houses are paired, 15' to 20' apart, so that the Bluebirds can use one and Tree Swallows can use the other.

Bruce Burdett SW NH

From: John Schuster [mailto:wildwingco"at"earthlink.net]
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 11:39 AM
Subject: Re: 100 ft apart in Florida

Dear Ron,

Follow Bruce's advice, and in addition, it's important to pair your nest boxes like this.

Pair your nest boxes as Bruce suggests (15 feet to 20 feet apart), then place your next paired set of nest boxes 100 yards (300 feet) down the line. Then pair your next set again at 15 feet to 20 feet apart. Then down the line you go again 100 yards, to set up you next paired set and so on and so on........

John Schuster
Cotati, CA 94931-9604, USA

Rule of thumb is 300 feet, no closer, unless trees or some obstruction will obscure the vision between them. Bluebirds utilize the whole 300 foot circle to forage.
Phil Berry

From: mrtony8 [mailto:philip.berry"at"mchsi.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 12:59 PM
Subject: Re: 100 ft apart in Florida

We do have tree swallows, but I have never seen one nest here in NW Florida. Pairing boxes would be wasteful here.
Phil Berry

Phil,
When you say "wasteful," what do you mean exactly? Would they remain empty? Would other cavity-nesters take them? What do you think would happen if Ron *did* pair his boxes? Are there Violet-greens there?
Thanks, John Schuster, for your clear explanation of what "pairing" means. I have often had difficulty explaining just what "pairing" is. I have had people say that their "paired" boxes are 50 or even 100 feet apart. For me, "pairing" means 15' to 20' apart, - no more.

Bruce Burdett SW NH

From: mrtony8 [mailto:philip.berry"at"mchsi.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 6:22 PM
Subject: Re: 100 ft apart in Florida

No violet greens here, the only place i have seen them is in Alaska.

By wasteful I mean the cost of two boxes v. one. the only cavity nesters we have are EABL, CACH, BHNU, and the occasional GCFL. Oh, and the Red Bellied Woodpecker, which I had nest twice.

And the paired boxes i saw in NY were all side by side, not spaced more than a foot or so.
Phil Berry

From: Dottie, Hickory Hollow, Brown County, Indiana [mailto:yumyumkatts"at"voyager.net]
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 1:04 AM
To: BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: 100 ft apart in Florida

They have VG Swallows in Napa, CA. Leah Hawks reports having them nest at her place.

Dottie, Hickory Hollow
Brown County, Indiana

From: Pauline Tom [mailto:ptom"at"austin.rr.com]
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 7:26 AM
Subject: Re: 100 ft apart

Texas Bluebird Society educational material says, " To increase chances of most of your nestboxes being occupied by bluebirds, place nestboxes at approximately 100 yard spacing (since bluebirds are competitive with one another for space). To attract a variety of species, additional nestboxes may be installed closer together (even 5 yards apart).

Keith Kridler wrote a section in Texas Bluebird Society's first publication that starts with this question in large, bold print, "I only have one small house lot. What difference could I make?"

Keith answered, "Bluebirds feed insects to their young and need about 3/4 acre of open ground to feed their family. They are not limited to using only to your land and often will feed in your neighbor's yard or even across the street! When you have success attracting bluebirds you should inform the neighbors and share the joy so that they can also help protect the birds.
.... By placing 3 or 4 nestboxes on even a small lot you ensure that all
native cavity nesters will have a place to nest in your yard. Placing these nestboxes on edges of your property, out of sight of one another can allow you to have 2 or sometimes 3 pairs of bluebirds nesting in a small yard.
Each pair can establish a larger territory utilizing your neighbor's lot and a portion of your yard.

When I started my bluebird trail, I was measuring out 300 YARDS because that's what I read in the books. Keith taught me over the phone that bluebird territories are determined by food supply. He pointed to our insect supply, much more bountiful in Texas than in the states where most bluebird educational text originated.

He taught me that bluebirds can branch off in any direction from the nestbox to establish their territory. He pointed to bluebird nestboxes in front yards in Mount Pleasant TX across the street from one another (less than 50 feet apart, I think) with nothing obscuring view, and to natural habitat with many natural cavities less than 100 feet apart. So, the mere presense of multiple cavities will not prevent bluebirds from nesting. And, if they nest close together, it's the birds themselves that determined the territorial lines

Ron, the bluebirds selected the nextbox that's 100-feet from the other, and they're using it. I assume you have bountiful food supply. Is the problem that there's no hunting/attack perch except the one tree? I've created a tall perch beside a nestbox in my front yard by hammering a rod of rebar in the ground and slipping a 10-foot section of EMT conduit over the rebar.
Bluebirds perch on that open-ended EMT conduit.

If the bluebirds do not fight one another and the clutches fledge, then it seems you've established that in your world (we each live in different
worlds) the 100 foot distance worked in this case.

If it does not work out, please tell us so we can learn. That's what this list is all about - learning what works (and does not work) for others.

Pauline Tom, Mountain City (no mountains) TX

From: RBALTRUNAS"at"cs.com [mailto:RBALTRUNAS"at"cs.com]
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 9:02 PM
Subject: Re:100 ft apart

Is the problem
that there's no hunting/attack perch except the one tree?

I don't know what this means and there is no problem. I am happy to have EABL nesting close to each other. You see my 6 boxes are on fences 3 feet above the 6 ft fences. I connected my posts to the fence posts. One side of the fence faces a farm and the other an open feild the size of 2 football fields so that's the turf they can mark out. Now I am hopeful for more EABL. If I move some of the boxes around so they don't "see" each other I may get more next year. There is plenty of open turf for them to share.

When I check on these boxes there are quite a few EABL around them and they watch me when I look in. I suspect they are the pairs nesting and the 5 that fledged from the first nesting. I think what happend is pair #1 nested in box #2 raising 5 out of 8 eggs. (There seems to have been some interaction with the pairs here too) then pair #1 renested in box #2 while pair #2 moved into #3. Or maybe pair #1 nested in box #2 and when they were away with their fledglings pair #2 set up in #2 then pair #1 moved to box #3. Forgive me if you can't follow that, but its been very interesting and hard to figure out. But its working! So here's hoping for more!

Ron
Brooksville, FL

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