Nestbox placement (Part 1)

In addition to Messages that have appeared in the Bluebird Mailing Lists on this topic, the following are on the Audubon Society of Omaha website: Utility Pole Bluebirding by Dean E. Sheldon, Jr.

Subj: Re: Nestboxes in State Parks
Date: 4/2/99 5:35:49 PM Central Standard Time
From: PSPARKS"at"farmcredit.com (Dan Sparks (PAMELA S SPARKS))
Sender: owner-BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Reply-to: PSPARKS"at"farmcredit.com
To: BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu, birdsfly"at"innercite.com

Hatch,

We have several nestboxes mounted at Brown County Sate Park--the largest state park in Indiana. We received permission from the head naturalist and the park manager.

We also have several nestboxes at a state memorial. They ask that we don't have the name of our organization on the nestboxes.

We also have nestboxes at a Department of Natural Resources area. Here, we received permission from the property manager.

In this area, as you can see, it's getting permission from the person in charge that gets us into the different areas. Nothing in writing. We are usually required to mount the nestbox and pole in non-mowing areas.

Hatch Graham 03/28 6:34 PM
Hi Bluebirders:
California Bluebird Recovery Program has a Memorandum of Understanding with the Pacific Southwest Region of the US Forest Service which makes one-fifth of California (20 million acres) available for cavity nesting trails. We wish to enter into a similar arrangement with our State Park System, but there are some concerns about manmade structures and "upsetting the balance of nature" (as if it hadn't been already).

My request: How many of you have, or know of, trails in State Parks in your States? What is the basis of the permission granted? If any of you have written agreements with your State Departments of Parks, I would appreciate any information you can send me directly. We are preparing our case and all the precedence we can provide the powers that be, will help further the cause. Any longer documents should, of course, be sent off the list.

Thanks.
--
Hatch Graham, Editor, Bluebirds Fly! California Bluebird
Recovery Program
El Dorado County "at" 3100 ft, Lat 38°37'43"N, Long 120°37'47"W
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
for the encouragement and conservation of cavity nesters -especially bluebirds- anywhere in the West

Subj: Golf courses
Date: 6/1/99 1:28:35 AM Central Daylight Time
From: dputman"at"syix.com (dputman)
Sender: owner-BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Reply-to: dputman"at"syix.com
To: Bluebird-L"at"cornell.edu (bluebird)

Kevin Putman, Yuba City, CA

I have nestboxes on two golf courses. Both are fantastic bluebird habitats. Never had a HOSP even attempt a nest at either place (yet). I banded 45 WEstern BLuebird chicks at one of these courses this morning. If they use a lot of chemicals at these courses, they must not be harmful to bluebirds--just astronomical success here.

One course is a private club; they close the course on Monday, so that is the day I monitor--only the grounds crew is there. The new grounds superintendent has some knowledge of birds; he's going to put some BArn OWl boxes up for rodent control, he's familiar with bluebird / cavity nester situation, and he has been more than accommodating to my project at the course; he uses integrated pest mgt., and he's interested in the Audubon "certification".

The other course is public; it is open every day, so I monitor there on their slowest day, which happens to be Thurs. for some reason.

I have some other thoughts about BB trails on golf courses:

1) Find out if there is a day that the course is closed, or ask which is the slowest day / time. Avoid monitoring on weekends--too much action, too many golf balls flying around / takes too much time to monitor due to waiting for golfers to hit, etc.

2) if you are monitoring while people are playing, and you are in a golf cart, this can be a source of confusion for golfers: if you are coming up from behind, they think you are another golfer who is coming up fast and wants to play through (pass them). When they see that you don't have clubs they are really confused. I had a superintendent who gave me a maint.. cart (looked like a big lawn mower) and then the players just thought I was one of the maint crew. It avoided all such awkward situations.

3) Some "upscale" courses (like this private one) have dress codes--no Levis, collar-less shirts, etc.--so you may be expected to look the part while on the course. Again, the maint.. cart allowed me to avoid this stupid rule.

4) I just bolt all of my boxes on the trees, head-high--no predator problems, no raccoons at this golf course. Where predators are a problem, pole-mounting or high-hanging boxes might be the answer. One thing about pole-mounting, though: it just creates one more obstacle for the mowers to navigate around, so pole-mounts might not be very popular with the grounds superintendent. Which ever way the boxes are mounted, I like to put them where they will be protected from the constant barrage of golf balls: a) the most dangerous place on the course is near the tees: thousands of golf balls come flying past at high velocity with line-drive trajectory. I place nestboxes at least 75-100 yards down the fairway from the tees, and I put them on the opposite side of the tree from the direction of play. Most golfers never even notice the boxes here. Even if they have to find their ball and play from these trees; they are usually thinking
about one thing: getting their ball from the mess they are in and down to the green as quickly as possible.

b) I don't put boxes close to the tees--too conspicuous. This is where golfers tend to loiter around a bit. A constant procession of people may eventually result in a bad apple, so I like the "low-profile" approach. Besides, why put boxes where golfers loiter / talk when there are lots of better places where the birds will get the least amount of disruption.

c) I don't put boxes near the clubhouse--too many people, and if there are HOSP around, this is where they will be a-moochin' crumbs, etc..

Subj: Fw: face boxes/heat
Date: 6/1/99 4:21:10 PM Central Daylight Time
From: kridler"at"1Starnet.com (Keith & Sandy Kridler)
Sender: owner-BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Reply-to: kridler"at"1Starnet.com (Keith & Sandy Kridler)
To: BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu (BLUEBIRD-L)

Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas (good job Kevin and Fread on the golf course trails, Good thoughts!)

Facing boxes: Dick Tuttle, in the early 80's showed that if the sun shines directly into a nestbox it will raise the temperatures as much as 5*F(? maybe more) than if the box is in the exact same location but is turned or has more roof overhang so the sun can't shine into the box. (two holed boxes should be carefully placed since they did not test them?) Depending on your latitude (my northeast Texas location for example has the south sides of boxes in total shade now) should determine which direction it should face. You have to take into consideration trees and buildings offering shade also. Like Joe, boxes in my yard I like to position facing my windows, which just happens to make them south facing but I protect them from the brutal west sun by having a tree on their west. Remember that a dark stained nestbox will gain 17*F over the shade temperature when placed in full sun. Remember that 107*F for 4 hours is lethal to many native cavity nesting bird eggs and young so this location is only safe if your temperatures never go above 90*F.

Heat:Since everyone's boxes are different and construction methods are different around the country now is the time to test your boxes to see if they are safe for second nestings (or third). You might want to buy two of the dial thermometers with the 1/8" metal probe. I got mine at my local hardware store for about $5 each. in an empty nestbox or one with an old nest just drill a small hole so you can insert the probe about nest level 12" off of the floor. You should plug bottom drain holes with a fake nest for accurate results. By placing one of these in the nestbox and hanging the other (check to see that they read the same while at the store) under a shade tree in your yard you can just walk up to the box and read the dial during sunny days and check the shade temperature to check for heat rise. Remember a nest now being built must be safe from 107*F for the next 34 days or so! We normally will hit 105*F+ temps this next month! All of my boxes must have total shade by mid morning to have young survive the next nesting, what about your area? KK

Subj: Statistical Help needed.
Date: 6/16/99 11:07:29 AM Central Daylight Time
From: ttempest"at"minn.net (Ted Tempest)
Sender: owner-BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Reply-to: ttempest"at"minn.net
To: BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu

The question has been raised as to how many nesting BB pairs will 5 acres of land comfortably hold. Assuming the acreage itself is not wooded but there are
woods occasionally abutting the periphery of it. Assume we are pairing nestboxes no greater than 20 feet apart and the terrain is pasture or low cut grass with rolling meadow contour. An occasional oak tree may be found as well as a few snags.....no outbuildings or other structures are present.
Question..
1.) How many nestbox "pairs" can be sited within reasonable expectations of being used?
2.) What sort of pattern (if any) in nestbox distribution would best suit a comfortable population?

Thanks ,
Ted Tempest
St Paul , Mn.

Subj: Statistical Help needed. (Addendum)
Date: 6/16/99 2:43:16 PM Central Daylight Time
From: ttempest"at"minn.net (Ted Tempest)
Sender: owner-BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Reply-to: ttempest"at"minn.net
To: BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu

I've been asked by more than one "lister" what the shape or geometry of the 5 acres is . How short sighted on my part....
The 5 acres is basically a square..
Thanks
Ted

The question has been raised as to how many nesting BB pairs will 5 acres of land comfortably hold. Assuming the acreage itself is not wooded but there are
woods occasionally abutting the periphery of it. Assume we are pairing nestboxes no greater than 20 feet apart and the terrain is pasture or low cut grass with rolling meadow contour. An occasional oak tree may be found as well as a few snags.....no outbuildings or other structures are present.
Question..
1.) How many nestbox "pairs" can be sited within reasonable expectations of being used?
2.) What sort of pattern (if any) in nestbox distribution would best suit a comfortable population?

Thanks ,
Ted Tempest
St Paul , Mn.

Subj: Fw: 5-acre BB site
Date: 6/16/99 3:52:45 PM Central Daylight Time
From: blueburd"at"srnet.com (Bruce Burdett)
Sender: owner-BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Reply-to: blueburd"at"srnet.com
To: BLUEBIRd-L"at"cornell.edu

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Burdett
To: Ted St PaulMN Tempest
Date: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 4:37 PM
Subject: Fw: 5-acre BB site

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Burdett
To: ttempest"at"minn.net
Date: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 4:37 PM
Subject: 5-acre BB site

Ted,
One way to answer your question would be to say: "As many houses
(boxes) as you can get on the square so that:1.) your pairs of houses are
no
closer together than about 300', and, 2.) no pair of houses is closer than
about 100' from thickets, bushes, bramble patches, or treelines."
I use the figure 300' because most books I've read say that BBs will
not nest closer to other BBs than 300'. In point of fact, where I am, I've
never seen them nest closer than about 500', but maybe NH's population is
more sparse than, say, Minnesota's.
I use the figure 100' because when the houses are closer than that,
competition from other cavity-nesters is more intense,- Titmice,
Chickadees,
Nuthatches, and especially the !"at"#$%! House Wrens. Where I am, House Wrens
do not interfere with nestings which are that far out in the open.
Incidentally, my paired houses are never farther apart than 15',
though I have no scientific reason for doing this, other than the fact that
I've HEARD of Tree Swallows taking BOTH houses when they are 20' or more
apart. Whether they will do this or not, I suspect, varies with the density
of your local TRSW population. I have NEVER had TRSWs take both houses of a
pair.

Subj: RE: Statistical Help needed.
Date: 6/17/99 8:34:14 AM Central Daylight Time
From: mcwrigh"at"nppd.com (Wright, Merlin C.)
Sender: owner-BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Reply-to: mcwrigh"at"nppd.com
To: ttempest"at"minn.net ('ttempest"at"minn.net'), BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu

An acre is 43560 square feet. Five acres is 217800 square feet. If your 5 acre patch of land is in the shape of a square, then we are thinking of a 466 ft by 466 ft patch. A box at each corner and one in the center would theoretically allow 100 yard spacing BUT in reality, a building or tree to hide one box from the other DOES affect the allowable spacing. Another way to calculate this is that a 100 yard recomendation means that the circle around a box would have an area of 70650 square feet and if you divide the area of 5 acres by that, (217800/70650)you get 3 boxes/5 acres. 5 boxes fit because placing 4 boxes at the corners of a square means those birds use land outside the square. Now for more fun. If the 5 acres is a long skinny rectangle 40 feet wide by a mile long and you use the 100 yard rule, then you can place (5280/300) 17 boxes on YOUR 5 acres.

Merlin Wright at Nemaha county NE 40*30'N, 95*45'W
...

Subj: Sunapee/Yorba Linda
Date: 6/30/99 6:26:51 AM Central Daylight Time
From: blueburd"at"srnet.com (Bruce Burdett)
Sender: owner-BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Reply-to: blueburd"at"srnet.com
To: lviolett"at"earthlink.net (Linda Yorba Linda CA Violett)
CC: BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu (BLUEBIRD-L)

To Linda Violett, et al, from Bruce Burdett, NHBC,

Thanks for your reflections re. placement (location) of houses. We have here, by the looks, a classic example of the wide range of conditions we have to cope with on our continent. Apparently, if you did in Y.L. what I do in Sunapee, - i.e. placed your houses out in the open, - pole-climbing ground-based predators would take a serious toll. If I did what you do out there, House Wrens would simply take over all the BB houses. (with an occasional harmless Chickadee or Titmouse here and there) House Wrens RULE the thickets here, and the houses they don't use they stuff with their twig-piles so that they are effectively useless. And of course they also puncture other birds' eggs and otherwise create havoc. Here in Sunapee I don't believe I have EVER had a ground-based predator interfere with a nesting. 'Coon numbers are way down since our recent rabies epidemic. which also hammered our local foxes.) I've never seen a cat, house or feral, near my houses. Snakes are not a problem here, - knock on wood. I don't even have House Sparrows where my houses are, though some parts of town have them. The Tree Swallows do not compete with BBs when the houses are paired. I would never DREAM of hanging a house, or of mounting one on a tree or building, - simply out of the question. Blowflies, yes; they require careful monitoring, and they sometimes zap the BBs if I'm not vigilant. So thanks again, Linda. You've pointed out a significant variable.

Subj: Re: High temperatures
Date: 7/4/99 6:55:49 PM Central Daylight Time
From: vivianmp"at"eznet.net (Vivian M. Pitzrick)
Sender: owner-BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Reply-to: vivianmp"at"eznet.net
To: BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu

From Belmont, N.Y., Allegany County, about 90 miles SE of Buffalo, near PA
border. 92 in the shade today.

Many of my boxes are mounted on utility poles, on the NE side so that by the time the hot mid-day and afternoon sun hits, the pole helps shade the box.

If a box is on a post without any shade from the afternoon sun, I often mount a second roof, which can be of much thinner material, wider all around if possible than the first and about an inch or so above it.

I do this well after the female has settled into her incubation period. This week I prepared such a thin roof, with small nails already in place, and mounted it in seconds above a box with three 12-day-old young inside here in the yard. The nailing was actually into the top of the backboard so as to minimize the jarring to the nestlings. The male fed the nestlings within just a few minutes after I left -- and is out there right now tending his young as I write.

Even with ventilation holes or space at the top of the box, with temperatures we are having recently, it can get very hot inside from direct sun. Sometimes I have lifted the roof slightly, possibly 1/4-inch, allowing more ventilation. The nails or screws are long enough to hold the roof in place but care should be taken that they are holding it firmly because of threat from predators. (This has to be lowered when cooler weather comes again, of course.)

Vivian

Subj: Re: House Wrens?Prison.
Date: 11/16/99 9:04:46 AM Central Standard Time
From: ktho"at"kc.rr.com (Kathleen O'Brien-Blair)
Sender: owner-BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Reply-to: ktho"at"kc.rr.com
To: blueburd"at"srnet.com, BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu (BLUEBIRD-L)

Hiya Folks!

I've been reading in and have gotten a *lot* of really useful info from this list. Finally had to post when I saw a post from Bruce Burdett's New Hampshire Bluebird Conspiracy....Pretty cool....

My ulterior personal agenda is to learn enough about Bluebirds (I live in Kansas City, Missouri) and their preferred habitats, that I can speak intelligently to our Parks Department Board of Commissioners about adopting a wild City park across the street from me and installing a bluebird house or two.

The park itself has never been developed, but there are rumblings about it and I'm trying to nip that in the bud. Because it's been left alone (it was formerly part of a cattle farm - but now is only about 1 acre) it's become a haven for wildlife. It's meadow and woods with a creek (mostly dry) running through it. The meadow faces north and slopes to the south toward the creek, with woods at it's southern back and along the east. There is also a little clearing on the south side of the woods and the creek, close to the street. The drainage through this area is fairly lousy, so the meadow stays moist most of the season. So far I've seen deer (lots) a blue heron (it fishes at a pond in a meditation garden at the Little Sisters of the Poor Nursing Home just north of the park) hawk feathers, owl feathers, lots of rabbits, dogwoods, deciduous holly, porcelain berry, crabapple, Lady Slipper orchid (one little bunch of 'em), yellow dock, lambs quarters, violets, swamp milkweed, chicory, Queen Anne's Lace *and* Bishops weed, Osage Orange....on and on......

My question is: is this suitable habitat for bluebirds? I'm concerned about hawks, owls and snakes, not to mention squirrels predating on them.

As to House Wrens vs. House Sparrows - how can you tell the difference? (I'm kinda new to birding in general.)

Isn't there some kind of an aperture made of PVC or some kind of softer plastic that you can insert into the entry hole in a bluebird house to make it smaller and to discourage other birds and pests from trying to get in? I think I saw this device on one of those Cable animal shows - it was developed by a Conservation officer somewhere. Anyone know what I'm talking about?

Thanks for any input.

Kathleen O'Brien-Blair
Loma Vista Neighborhood Association, Inc.
Kansas City, Missouri

...

Subj: Habitat Definition
Date: 11/15/99 9:56:09 PM Central Standard Time
From: p.vanduser"at"worldnet.att.net (p.vanduser)
Sender: owner-BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Reply-to: p.vanduser"at"worldnet.att.net
To: BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu (Bluebird List)

I am trying to write a simple, easy to understand definition of good bluebird habitat for distribution to "novice" bluebirders. Such terms as "like a cemetery or golf course or pasture" are commonplace in our literature. What if someone cannot visualize any of these environments? How about some new words...

Can you help?

Regards, Pete

Subj: Bluebirds - not just for the country
Date: 1/5/00 4:36:01 PM Central Standard Time
From: garrbiv"at"dellnet.com (STEPHEN GARR)
Sender: owner-BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Reply-to: garrbiv"at"dellnet.com
To: BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu (bluebird list)

Haleya & All,

Sorry to take so long to respond to your inquiries about attracting Bluebirds to nest in downtown Nashville ( Getting ready for the Bird Watch America Show in Atlanta this weekend and it's very time-consuming). But, we are always grateful for the opportunity to tell people about our local projects, and what has really become a "philosophy" (some 20 years in the making) for us.
My wife and I do as many slide presentations/seminars as we possibly can each year .Quite some time ago it became apparent to me that the more we preached to people about putting their nest boxes in areas that they could view them easily, and monitor them frequently( actually having human activity around the box
on a frequent basis), the greater success our friends, customers, and associates had in attracting Bluebirds and having them raise more broods per box each season. The more we encouraged people to build up the population of Bluebirds(via monitoring,proper housing , etc) in subdivisions on the fringes of downtown Nashville , the greater success we had in attracting Bluebirds to the city.
One of the presentations I do is entitled "Bluebirds- not just for the country" and I go into the specifics concerning methods we feel enhance a metropolitan area's opportunity for Bluebirds to nest. Some residential areas prove to be quite the haven for bluebirds:They have perfectly manicured lawns, an abundance of power lines for perch area, and a fairly consistent bustle of human activity (to annoy natural predators and , who knows, maybe just because the bluebirds actually like to be around us!) Of course we don't recommend our customers make pets of the birds, but routine interaction does seem to be a plus - if for no other reason than to be able to eject house sparrows immediately and frequently . Oh yes, those house sparrows are definitely a bother, but we make it a point to "interact" with them routinely as well. We can't really explain why alot of human activity around the box doesn't seem to annoy the bluebird but almost always bothers the house sparrows , we just try to use that information to our advantage.
With regard to open area, our experience has been that with ample perch area, and a well made, closely monitored nest box, a clearing of only 15 feet or so in the front area of the house is sufficient(sometimes less). Of course we recommend not mounting to trees or buildings. The varied "terrain" of many downtown residential areas ( i.e.. small area of closely mown grass plus a few berry-producing shrubs and say a dogwood tree or two, followed by taller evergreen trees) has proven to be a plus - even if this "terrain" is spread out over several residences. Hope this answers some of your questions! Steve Garr
Mt. Juliet, TN

Subj: correction to country
Date: 1/5/00 5:18:34 PM Central Standard Time
From: garrbiv"at"dellnet.com (STEPHEN GARR)
Sender: owner-BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Reply-to: garrbiv"at"dellnet.com
To: BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu (bluebird list)

OOPS! okay I typed the Email for my husband and got it WRONG..... the required open area in front of the nest boxes appears to be 30 feet (sometimes less) NOT "15 feet (sometimes less)" This is in reference to putting boxes in downtown areas.
My apologies.....Regina Garr,overworked ,less competent , but well meaning wife of Steve Garr!

Subj: Re: Bluebirds - not just for the country
Date: 1/6/00 8:28:17 PM Central Standard Time
From: barbarann"at"home.com (Barbara Ann Bowman)
Sender: owner-BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Reply-to: barbarann"at"home.com
To: garrbiv"at"dellnet.com
CC: BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu (bluebird list)

I want to thank Stephen Garr for his presentation on Bluebirds that he so graciously gives at his store in Mt. Juliet, TN. This is where my education on E. Bluebirds started several years ago. My husband and I purchased a NABS nestbox there and from the pattern made several that we gave to friends and relatives as gifts. We live in Hendersonville, TN in a peaceful community with manicured lawns and an abundance of power lines for perches and do they ever
use them. Every year since the first until last year we saw at least 2 clutches of 5 each fledged from one of the boxes. The best location we have is in the middle of the front yard with lots of activity on the street, kids rollerblading etc. The BB's don't seem to mind these activities. The only nuisance we have had is of
course the dreaded four letter word HOSP. I am going to use the Joe Huber trap this year and get back to what I love, watching those beautiful parents feeding and caring for their little ones and watching them fledge. Steve, keep up the good work.

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Barbara Ann Bowman
Hendersonville, Tennessee, USA
mailto:barbarann"at"home.com
Lat.36.33; Long. -86.61
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 06:31:37 -0600
From: "Wright, Merlin C." mcwrigh"at"nppd.com
To: BLUEBIRD-L BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: RE: Pairing

A good reason to plant your birdhouses in the fall is that the ground has frost in it now and it is difficult to pound pipes or rebar into the ground in February (in the Midwest and New England)

Merlin Wright at Brownville Nebraska

Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 00:23:05 EST
From: Mstarrw"at"aol.com
To: BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re:nest boxes and trees
Message-ID: 17.1954995.25d3a539"at"aol.com

Oh dear, a conundrum.

Fact: location is in the low desert, southern California. There is one large palo verde tree, a few yards from our little casita, and that's it. . .other vegetation: bushes-indigo bushes being the largest-, ocotillos, etc.

Conundrum: Some posts strongly urge putting the nestbox in the shade of a tree, or nearby so the birds can perch. Others say definitely stay away from
trees.

How far is "away", and given the desert heat, wouldn't some tree shade be best??

Thanks, Myrna

Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 08:45:10 -0500
From: "Bruce Burdett"
To:
Cc:
Subject: Shade?

Myrna, et al,
From the perspective of central NH, I would never presume to instruct anyone in the low desert of southern CA about how to locate Bluebird houses. Up here, the usual advice is to keep houses (or PAIRS of houses) well out in the open, 100'+- away from thickets, bramble patches, overgrown tree lines, etc., in order to reduce competition from thicket-loving species, chiefly House Wrens. A few SCATTERED trees are OK, - good, in fact. But out where you are, a lot of factors are different. You probably have Westerns, for one thing. And your summer sun is much more severe than ours, so shade is not a consideration. I hope some of your CA neighbors have something to say. My main Message is the fact that what works in one place does not necessarily work in ALL places.

Bruce Burdett, NH Bluebird Conspiracy, Sunapee NH

Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 09:16:56 -0500
From: "Bruce Burdett"
To:
Subject: UP HERE!

To: everybody,
I meant "shade is not a consideration UP HERE IN NEW HAMPSHIRE"! Sorry. Bad error. I gather it's a REAL consideration in the low desert of CA.
Always, ALWAYS edit before hitting that unforgiving (sp?) 'Send' button.

Bruce Burdett

Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 22:52:35 EST
From: RWil2654"at"aol.com
To: BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Golf Course

HI List;
I need some quick feedback on this question. I am going to replace hard to monitor nesting boxes on the Tiara Rado Golf Course this weekend. I am planning to use my Wilson PVC boxes on 5 foot 1/2 " EMT [electrical Conduit) and wonder if you think that this will be high enough to keep out lookies from bothering them. I have placed warning signs that read BLUEBIRD NESTING BOX TAMPERING VIOLATES FEDERAL LAW.
Question should they be higher? Sprinklers are not a problem.

Bob Wilson
2654 Sperber Lane
Grand Junction, CO 81506
(970) 242-5190
39* 06.21N
108*33.61 W
4,635 elevation
http://www.crosswinds.net/~bluebirdbob/
http://www.dnr.state.co.us/wildlife/volunteer/bluebirdproject.htm

Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 23:35:43 -0800
From: "dputman"
To: "bluebird"
Subject: shade

Kevin Putman, Yuba City, CA

Hi Myrna,

As Bruce says, what's good in one place isn't necessarily good in another. Back East, they are always concerned with House Wrens (not that there aren't H. wrens out west here, just that it seems to be a more prevalent problem in the East; I've never found them in any of my boxes), so they stay away from trees / brush. But I would wager that your biggest concern is heat, and trees are definitely your friend in this case. Other concerns, while they may exist where you are, will still be secondary to the the issue of heat. KP

Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 19:54:22 -0800 (PST)
From: Horace Sher
To: Bluebird-L"at"Cornell.edu
Subject: 2 BB houses..front yard/back yard

Hi everyone.. Horace in NC. I have a question, but I only want a reply from people who actually have a BB house in their front yard, & one in their backyard with your own house in between them so that you can't see one BB house from the other.... I have a BB house in the backyard. I want to put another BB house in the front yard. I know all about the 100 yd. general rule. If you're at either BB house location, you can't see the other BB house. Each BB house has pretty good BB habitat around it, such as lawn, openness, etc. Actual linear distance from BB house to BB house is probably 150 or so ft. ( drawing a straight line thru my house). The question is do you think this'll work or do you think the BB's will be so territorial that they would interfere with each other? There are some trees between the 2 BB houses in the front & back yard. I would appreciate an opinion from someone who actually has this sort of arrangement or something similar in their yard. The 100 yd. rule is probably for use in a wide open country like setting. Thanks for replying. Horace in NC.

Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 09:03:17 -0600
From: Kathleen Oschwald
To: Bluebird-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: 2 BB houses..front yard/back yard

To Horace--

I spent an enjoyable four hours Wednesday with Keith Kridler and his wife, who live less than an hour from me. Besides showing me a variety of predator traps and guards; and houses for bluebirds, chickadees, and wood ducks; we toured his trail which is scattered along country roads and city streets, and saw literally hundreds of nestboxes. In several locations he pointed out boxes that were separated only by a country road. His observations indicated the birds rather than using a circular territory with their house in the center, each stuck to their own side of the road. In one case there were three houses quite close together (according to the books) but three pairs of bluebirds coexisted and successfully fledged young. Bluebirds obviously do not read the same books we do!

Even if you get a pair of bluebirds on one side of your house that don't want another pair of bluebirds nearby, they will tolerate birds like chickadees and tufted titmice that are also in desparate need of housing, so put up both houses and enjoy whatever birds you get in them (except the infamous house sparrow, of course!)

Kate Oschwald
Sumner, TX

Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 09:41:20 -0600
From: Kathleen Oschwald
To: Bluebird-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Bluebirds along the Gulf Coast

At 10:59 PM 2/10/00 EST, you wrote:

1 Am I correct in assuming that bluebirds are not likely to be in town
any more than they are in Ohio?

Not necessarily--there are open spaces with ideal habitat in many towns. Park areas, large open yards and vacant lots, etc. In my visit with Keith Kridler in Mount Pleasant, Texas, I saw numerous nestboxes in town, from which young had been successfully fledged. They even had a kestrel nesting in town.

2 What predators other than cats and house sparrows should I warn parents
to be on the lookout for?

Snakes can be a problem, but there are guards that can keep them from getting to the nestbox. Ditto for racoons.

3 Should the boxes still be placed in full sun as in Ohio? If so, should
any insulation be provided or will fledging likely come before the brutally
hot July and August sun?

Shade is probably CRITICAL in your area. My biggest losses to date have been eggs "cooked" in the hot sun, not predators. Unlike some birds, bluebirds produce several clutches of young in a season. The first clutch is usually not as vulnerable, then it's just too hot without protection from the full sun.

4. How close to the water are bluebirds likely to nest?

I can't answer this one, but if bluebirds or other cavity nesters have been observed in the area, they are probably looking for housing.

5. Or should I just scrap the whole project and take him fishing instead?

If you've seen cavity nesting birds in your area, I would certainly give it a try.

I will appreciate any and all answers and advice, and if anyone in the
area would like to get involved please email me at BBBMV"at"aol.com

Bill Davis,
Dayton, Ohio

Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 13:20:51 EST
From: RWil2654"at"aol.com
To: blueburd"at"srnet.com, BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: re.2 BBhouses..front yard/back yard

Hi Bruce; & all
I use line of sight rather than the 300' rule. Since they tend to be territorial and always are trying to protect there territory if they can't see the nest box they feel safe.

Bob Wilson
2654 Sperber Lane
Grand Junction, CO 81506
(970) 242-5190
39* 06.21N
108*33.61 W
4,635 elevation
http://www.crosswinds.net/~bluebirdbob/
http://www.dnr.state.co.us/wildlife/volunteer/bluebirdproject.htm

Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 11:04:59 -0600
From: "Sandra Erbs"
To:
Subject: Front and Back Yard Boxes

This is in response to the post asking for experience with boxes separated by a house.

I have a suburban yard with a large house right in the middle of it. There are several large native Oaks on the property and it is in natural WEBL habitat (until it was developed for homes). After the first year of a successful nesting in the back yard, I decided to also put a box in the front hoping to attract another pair. The house totally obstructs the view from one box to the other and there is park, vacant lots, and suburban yards in either direction. After two years I have not been
able to attract another pair. The existing pair have built nests in both boxes, and one year roosted in the front and nested in the back. From what I have observed, the male sits on the roof and on the tall tree tops where he can see both boxes and defends the whole yard and probably the neighbors too. Another box would probably need to be the recommended 300' away.

Sandra in El Dorado County, California where the WEBLs in my yard are very noisy and active.

Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 14:43:15 -0800
From: "Lonn and Linda" solong"at"teleport.com
To: BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Proximity of bird feeder to nesting house

Lonn in Roseburg, Oregon

Could I get some feedback on the ability of a bluebird or violet-green swallow to be attracted to a nest close to a bird-feeder. As it's getting spring-time close to comfort for me to supply the nurture and nesting coming soon; what are the odds my rearranging the feeders this winter, (maybe too close?), be to their attraction?

Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 20:15:52 EST
From: MSBOC"at"aol.com
To: solong"at"teleport.com, BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Proximity of bird feeder to nesting house

I have bluebirds nesting within three to five feet of bird feeders outside my classroom window. I have had no particular problems with that. However, I only feed black oil sunflower seed, thistle, and suet.

Hope this helps.

Nancy
Newtown, CT

Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 18:32:06 -0500
From: Lynn Emerich lemerich"at"epix.net
To: "BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: 2 BB houses..front yard/back yard

Horace, I have had bb nesting in front and rear of my house 2 or 3 times in 20 years. Usually the sparrows beat them to the front box. I let them fight it out with the wrens for posession, that way they won't bother the ones in the rear of the house. Neither box is visible from the other. Probably if I would monitor the front box more, I could get bb, but it is near wild rose bushes where lot of other birds nest, so I just let them have it.

Lynn near Reading Pa.

Horace Sher wrote:

Hi everyone.. Horace in NC. I have a question, but I only want a
reply from people who actually have a BB house in their front yard,
& one in their backyard with your own house in between them so that
you can't see one BB house from the other.... I have a BB house in
the backyard. I want to put another BB house in the front yard. I
know all about the 100 yd. general rule. If you're at either BB
house location, you can't see the other BB house. Each BB house has
pretty good BB habitat around it, such as lawn, openness, etc.
Actual linear distance from BB house to BB house is probably 150 or
so ft. ( drawing a straight line thru my house). The question is do
you think this'll work or do you think the BB's will be so
territorial that they would interfere with each other? There are
some trees between the 2 BB houses in the front & back yard. I would
appreciate an opinion from someone who actually has this sort of
arrangement or something similar in their yard. The ! ! 100 yd. rule
is probably for use in a wide open country like setting. Thanks for
replying. Horace in NC.

Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 00:12:20 -0500
From: The Carriers
To: bluebird bluebird
Subject: Question..

A BB question Hi all! Glad to see so many CT bluebird watchers out there!

We seem to have many around this winter. I feel they are some we raised this summer, and some that have come down from up north as well, even some from Bruce in New Hampshire, right Bruce?

My question:-
I have permission to place some BB boxes on a fence line (with preditor guards of coarse) from a landowner who has many large fields; perfect for BBs. This road has some med traffic during rush hour, and I wounder if I am doing the birds a dis favor. Will they get hit by cars from crossing the road? I never really studied how BBs cross roads; do they fly high enough to escape fast cars? Or do the hug the ground, making them prone to getting hit.

Anyone have any experience with this? The road is rural, and most of the day its quiet.

Waiting to hear from you all......Paul from N west CT... 7 last night!

Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 00:43:32 EST
From: RWil2654"at"aol.com
To: eemmuu"at"att.net, BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: BB Crossing highway

Bob Wilson
2654 Sperber Lane
Grand Junction, CO 81506
(970) 242-5190
39* 06.21N
108*33.61 W
4,635 elevation
http://www.crosswinds.net/~bluebirdbob/
http://www.dnr.state.co.us/wildlife/volunteer/bluebirdproject.htm

In 5 years on a very busy state highway Colorado 141 I have never seen a dead BB on the roadway. Logging trucks tanker RV buses and SUV traffic. The
fledge count there last year was 188 birds
Bob
PS All the openings face the road.

Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 06:29:28 -0600
From: Carolyn Hall
To: BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Road hazards

Paul,
Roads are a problem expecially if the high point for sitting and hunting is across the road from the nest box. Always face the entry hole away from the road but even then, as the bird leaves the nest I don't think they focus on stuff coming towards them and they are low (under 7') and striving to gain altitude. If it is a farm access road, not to worry but if it is a busy county or state road with lots of whizzing cars and trucks, definately a problme.
Good Luck.
Carolyn Hall, Bassett, NE 10*, light snow cover. One of my bluebirders up on the hill south of town saw 1 pair of bluebirds sitting on their deck railing next to the sunflower feeder. They live about 30 feet from a line of red cedar trees so we think the birds are in those trees.

Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 09:17:59 EST
From: RWil2654"at"aol.com
To: cjhall"at"huntel.net, BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Road hazards

HI Carolyn & All:
Is this really true that traffic is really a hazard to bb? I have watched them leave the nest and they almost always go straight up as soon a they leave the nest. As I said before all my boxes face the road for my convince. I HAVE NEVER SEE A DEAD BLUEBIRD ON THE ROAD WAY. Or are we just making an assumption that this would not be a good idea to face them towards the road?

Bob Wilson
2654 Sperber Lane
Grand Junction, CO 81506
(970) 242-5190
39* 06.21N
108*33.61 W
4,635 elevation
http://www.crosswinds.net/~bluebirdbob/
http://www.dnr.state.co.us/wildlife/volunteer/bluebirdproject.htm

Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 13:30:48 -0800
From: Maynard R Sumner
To: Bluebird-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Question..

...

Most of my boxes by the road the Bluebirds do not cross the road.

Maynard R Sumner Flint, Michigan

Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
Galatian 6:7

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 17:30:01 -0500
From: Dan & Rachel Thomas racheldan1"at"compuserve.com
To: BLUEBIRD BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Paired boxes on single pole

Dan Thomas Lancaster PA

Have been bulebirding less than a year now, and really appreciate all the help I received on the list. I took over a 26 box trail last summer. The boxes are paired, 6 feet apart and are on wood post that are rotted and need replaced.

I drove in a single steel post, and mounted 2 pieces of angle iron (horizonal, 8 inches apart) on the single steel post. I mounted the 2 boxes to the angle iron, which spaces the boxes 3 feet apart.

The main reason I used the single pole, is that the people mowing the park, have only one pole to mow around. Last year they hit the wood post several times, and made them loose, one time knocking one completely down.

The problem I noticed is that having both boxes on one pole, when a bird lands on one of the boxes, it makes the other box sway back and forth slightly. My question is??? Will this be a problem? This is a very successful trail and almost every pair of boxes last year had one tree swallow and one bluebird. . . I would really like to stay with the single pole mounting system. . . Thanks for your help.

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 18:07:36 EST
From: RWil2654"at"aol.com
To: racheldan1"at"compuserve.com, BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Paired boxes on single pole

I mount my boxes on 1/2" CMT over a 1/2" rebar and put them in the rough where they do not mow or hang them in trees.

Bob Wilson
2654 Sperber Lane
Grand Junction, CO 81506
(970) 242-5190
39* 06.21N
108*33.61 W
4,635 elevation

http://www.crosswinds.net/~bluebirdbob/
http://www.dnr.state.co.us/wildlife/volunteer/bluebirdproject.htm

Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 16:51:28 -0800 (PST)
From: Horace Sher hjsher1"at"yahoo.com
To: Bluebird-L"at"Cornell.edu
Subject: Front/Back Yard BB houses

HI. This is a response mainly to all who sent me a response about their experience with having a BB house in backyard & front yard separated by a house. Based on your informative respones, I've decided to wait until the current BB pair (who I think are in the courting stage) or the female starts her egg laying, & then I'm going to put a Peterson box in the front yard. Several of your responses indicated that the females are most likely to compete & fight. So, this is an interesting idea, by delaying the front yard box, I think I'll increase the chances that I'll get both boxes occupied with BB's. (I already have a 3rd box..smaller hole for the Chickadee or something similar in backyard). I just wanted to let you know what I decided. Thank you for so many of your interesting experiences... Horace in NC.

Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 23:02:23 -0500
From: The Carriers eemmuu"at"att.net
To: bluebird bluebird bluebird-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Thanks!

Hello all,

I want to thank all for your advice on putting boxes by the road. Seems most feel its OK for the BBs.

I would feel the chances of hitting a car, (or car hit bird) are there, but no system is completly safe. If I heared many BBs were seen dead cuz of this situation, It wasn't a good idea.

I will be putting up some boxes by the road, and monitor the sucesses for future considerations...........

Thanks all for the advise.......Paul from CT

PS) I already cleaned out for the winter 25 boxes, and all but 12were stufed with deer mice nests and mice. The nests with no mice, but nests, I assume were consumed by preditors during the winter. After reading about the hanta virus, I wounder if I should fix my poles with mouse guards as well?

Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 20:22:18 -0800 (PST)
From: Horace Sher hjsher1"at"yahoo.com
To: Bluebird-L"at"Cornell.edu
Subject: Front/back yard BB house

Hi everyone. I just wanted to let those people who sent me replies about their front/backyard BB house situation.. what I decided to do based upon your informative experiences. Since most people said the females usually compete and fight, I decided to wait until my current pair (they're courting now in the backyard) or the female starts egg laying, then I'm go to put up a Peterson BB box in the front yard. The female should be busy with her eggs or I may wait till she starts incubating. This is an interesting idea, as timing it right, I think I'll increase the chances that both boxes will be occupied by BB's this year. I already have a 3rd box in backyard with a smaller hole for the Chickadee or a similar bird. I enjoyed hearing about people's different nesting situations using front/back yard boxes separated by their home. Thanks again for your interesting replies... Horace in NC.

Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 19:09:10 EST
From: PKurz"at"aol.com
To: Bluebird-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: what chance is there...

that in my suburban backyard surrounded by some open (but not a lot) forest preserve, that my nest box(es) will be homes to blues?

I am getting mixed Messages. This list is so supportive and encouraging, but the lady at Wild Birds Unlimited said ...."not a chance!!!" mmm

should i try one or two boxes? Should I just try for wrens and be happy?

Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 19:09:44 EST
From: PKurz"at"aol.com
To: Bluebird-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: what chances??

i am in illinois, 30 miles sw of Chicago

patty

Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 16:36:51 -0800
From: Linda Violett
To: "Bluebird-L"at"cornell.edu"
Subject: Re: what chance is there...

Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif.

Yes, there is a chance. Not likely but possible. In 1998, a bluebird nestbox hung in a friend's tree attracted Bewick's wrens who raised a clutch. In 1999 bluebirds took over that nestbox and raised two clutches. This backyard is a tiny So. Calif. suburban back yard. It does not back up to a forest; it backs
up to a cul-de-sac street with rows of more houses. The owners fed the bluebirds mealworms regulary and the bluebirds would use the collective front
yards as the foraging area.

Whatever you decide, please don't let house wrens nest. Take out the sticks before the nestcup is built. House wrens are problem on my trail and other
bluebird trails; they peck little holes eggs of other nesting birds.

...

Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 10:19:32 -0600
From: "STEPHEN GARR" garrbiv"at"dellnet.com
To: "bluebird list" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: RE:What Chances?

Patty, Please don't give up or let any one discourage you! LOT'S of the folks we give seminars to have raised Blues repeatedly in environments that are basically congested suburban (and now even Urban) areas. Myself, I used to live on a tiny little lot in a new "starter home" type subdivision and I put up a bluebird house and a chickadee house in my tiny little fenced in back yard (I had a dog also) and I raised 3-4 clutches of baby blues every season . One bit of advice: frequent, routine, and careful monitoring of the nest box. Almost all the ones in your type of environment that we are familiar with, and that are the most successful, are on metal poles around lots of people activity , and religiously protected from domestic cats (as in: "I noticed your cat had gotten loose so I caught it in this humane trap so I could bring it back to you - I'm sure you must have been so worried") Best of Luck with the Bluebirds I KNOW you'll be enjoying soon!

Regina Garr (of Steve and Regina Garr)
Mt. Juliet, TN (barely East of Nashville)

Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 09:50:55 EST
From: RWil2654"at"aol.com
To: blueburd"at"srnet.com, BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Not at home.

HI Bruce & ALL;

I have some where in the neighborhood of 200 nesting boxes BUT NONE ARE WITH IN 5 MILES OF MY BACK YARD. The reason is that I live in city and bluebirds don't live where they cannot find food. I would love to have them in my back yard but the habitat is wrong and I will never be able to look out my window and see them at their nest. By the way they are NOT OUR BLUEBIRDS.

Bob Wilson
2654 Sperber Lane
Grand Junction, CO 81506
(970) 242-5190
39* 06.21N
108*33.61 W
4,635 elevation
http://www.crosswinds.net/~bluebirdbob/
http://www.dnr.state.co.us/wildlife/volunteer/bluebirdproject.htm

Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 17:32:59 -0500
From: The Carriers eemmuu"at"att.net
To: bluebird bluebird bluebird-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: sun question?

Hi all!

What a day here in CT! It hit 50f for a high, and all day sun. I went out cleaning boxes, repairing and assesing. Had a pair of BBs checking out the box in my yard when I got back! Anyway, I have a question: While putting up a new post and box, and looking for the best place to put it, (through the snow!), I thiought of this question. I always try to put boxes where they will get at least half day sun, preferably morning sun. Being most of my boxes are on farmers property, they require I put them only at the edges of their fields. This allows them to mow without hitting the poles. Best spots are along the north tree lines where sun hits best.

Question is - has anyone ever done a study on the sun requirements of breeding BBs?

Of the wild, natural sites I have seen, most have been in large trees at the edge of open areas, BUT, the hole itself seemed to get little direct sun,(shaded by leaves, esp at noon), and some were pointed towards the woods itself! I read many old orchards had BBs nesting within the fruit trees, and I would think the holes available would be under the canopy of the overhanging branches, getting no or little sun.

With this being the case, it would seem the nest site itself can be any suitable hole, but with open areas surounding it, or possibly nearby to feed from, Yes?

What do the rest of you think of this? Have anyone out there ever done research on this, and what is the shadiest box you have ever had on your trail? For me, it was a box that recieved only about 3 hrs of sun, but in the morning.

Would like to hear others opinions and answers to this important question...

Thanks, ........Paul from CT

Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 22:22:30 -0500
From: The Carriers eemmuu"at"att.net
To: bluebird bluebird bluebird-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Thanks!.but...

Hello all!.....I'm so excited to get started on doing bluebird weekend stuff! Not just build and repair. Anyway, our season is a commin!!

I would like to thank the two replys I recieved on sun requirements for Bluebirds. Thanks.

I was suprised though that I had only TWO replys!

I would have thought this would have brought up many more responses, for it is a very big Bluebird topic! So...any more ideas or information out there on this??

Would really like to hear from all the veterans out there, and hear what they have to say on this subject.........For those that did not read the question, here it is.....

What are the requirments that Bluebirds need for a nest site as far as sun. I use the idea, a box needs at least half a days sun to be acceptable to them, preferably morning sun. I try to put my boxes on a north wooded edge, so it gets mostly all day sun. I also asked if anyone had any boxes occupied with BBs that recieved less sun than thought was nessesary. In the wild, I noticed many natural sites were in dead trees facing open areas, but some recieved little sun directly for most of the day. Some even had the hole facing towards the woods, affording no sun at the entrence!

Lets hear from you out there; It will be helpfull for most of us to pick proper sites for our boxes..Thanks................Paul from CT....

Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 19:40:07 -0800
From: "W.Guglieri" wendyg"at"jps.net
To: eemmuu"at"att.net, "bluebird bluebird" bluebird-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Bluebirds and sun/shade

from Wendy Guglieri in Rescue, California

Paul:

OK, I'll offer one more comment. Sorry, but I can't answer your question, because I don't really know the answer. Part of the reason I don't is that I live in the Western U.S., where our summer temps often hit the high 90s and 100s. I think it's important for everyone to know that you are referring to EASTERN Bluebirds (I assume, as you live in Conn). It's also important to let everyone know where you live. The rules that you follow there about how and where to place nestboxes are not the same here in my neck of the woods. Here we must place our nestboxes in the shade. If we placed a nestbox in direct sun for most of day, I'm afraid that we'd have nothing but a lot of toasted little Western Bluebird nestlings! I just placed 14 boxes on a trail, and every single one of them is in the shade of a tree.

...

Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 20:35:51 -0800
From: Linda Violett lviolett"at"earthlink.net
To: "Bluebird-L"at"cornell.edu" Bluebird-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Sun Exposure

Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif.

I didn't reply because all my boxes hang in trees. The vast majority get more shade than sun. I don't think any sun exposure hitting a nestbox or tree trunk is in the least necessary for cavity nesters except for early morning rays as an alarm clock. During the early cold season, it's nice if the boxes get some warmth from the sun, but during the summer it is better to have shade. With hanging boxes, you can reposition the box within minutes.

Your note said you really wanted to hear from the veterans. I'm not a veteran but thought you deserved more than the two replies you received.

...

Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 07:49:50 -0500
From: "Brenda Best" jabbest"at"dreamscape.com
To: eemmuu"at"att.net, "bluebird bluebird" bluebird-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Thanks!.but...

Paul,

Wendy is right about the geographic differences in our trails. Here in New York, most of my boxes are out in the middle of fields. They get sunshine from sunrise to sunset. No trees anywhere near them. I really don't think bluebirds have a "requirement" for a certain amount of sunshine.

Brenda
--
Brenda Best
Durhamville, NY
(between Syracuse and Utica)
jabbest"at"dreamscape.com

The Nature Club of Central New York
http://natureclubofcny.8m.com/

...

Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 08:18:41 -0500
From: "Bruce Burdett" blueburd"at"srnet.com
To: BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: re: Sun

From: Bruce Burdett, SW NH, NH Bluebird Conspiracy blueburd"at"srnet.com
- about 1/2" of sleet here yesterday, making driving very iffy.
***********************************

I try, insofar as possible, to keep all my houses well out in some kind of clearing, so under ideal circumstances they all get maximum sun exposure during the day. They would be shaded only during the early morning and late afternoon. And, unlike the tree-hung boxes in California, they are all mounted on free-standing poles. (and paired)

Thanks for the stories about bees in bird-houses. That was all news to me. I have never seen a bee in a bird-house, either honey- or bumble-. I've had Carpenter Bees burrowing into MY house, but never in a bird-house. It was just another proof of how varied conditions are in different parts of the continent, and how we should never speak in absolutes.

If 9 years at this makes me a 'veteran', then so be it. When I had been only 9 years on our school faculty, I was still considered pretty much a 'rookie'. Everything's relative, right?

Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 00:15:09 -0400
From: Haleya Priest/Thom Levy hpandtl"at"crocker.com
To: BLUEBIRD BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: sun requirement

Haleya Priest Amherst MA

If there is a sun "requirement" it may become a moot point. I recently read an article that government scientists are now recognizing that global warming is happening at an unprecidented (sp) rate. MUCH, MUCH, MUCH faster than EVER anticipated. They said to expect more...... "steamy summers and warmer winters and low lying flooding"........ Sorry to come on with bad news, but it sure doesn't look good - figured it would be helpful for each of us to decide our plans of action for our bluebirds......For those with trails, it may be to build any new boxes with shade roofs, and those with backyard boxes, include a shade roof on already existing boxes - once the weather heats up .... H For more info on paint, shade roofs, ways to cut down on summer ovens in our nest boxes, I bet you can find a section about that on the Best of Bluebird-L - URL listed in your REF GUIDE. H

Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 13:29:32 -0800
From: "dputman" dputman"at"syix.com
To: "bluebird" Bluebird-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: sun requirements

Kevin Putman, Yuba City, CA

I don't think that there are any sun requirements for a bluebird's nesting cavity; the surrounding habitat is what is important. A large percentage of my nestboxes are in total shade. Actually, what we have here in the Sacramento Valley is not a sun requirement but a shade requirement: the boxes need to be in shade at least from noon to dusk-- even better if all day because some days get lethally hot by 9:30-10:00am. KP

Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 22:31:59 -0600
From: "Fread Loane" firefrost2"at"earthlink.net
To: "BLUEBIRD-L" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Sun Requirements For Nesting

I am assuming that the "sun requirements" you are speaking about, do not concern the studies on how sunlight promotes hormomal activities. For many of us Bluebirders in the mid/deep south, our major concern is for thermal regulation of interior nestbox temperatures. Here in Oklahoma, our summers can be brutal and it is important in nestbox placement to consider this fact. Morning sun, which is generally cooler, can be used, however, the afternoon sun could be lethally hot on brooding adults or nestlings.

This summer, take a thermometer along with you as you do your trail maintenance and record some of the temperatures of nestboxes placed in sun and those placed in afternoon shade. Just as we humans enjoy a respite from the afternoon heat, i am sure the Bluebirds would also.

Fread J. Loane
Spring has arrived in Oklahoma. Magnolia soulangeana (Saucer Magnolia) and Magnolia stellata (Star Magnolia) are in full, glorious bloom!
Fread J. Loane
Tulsa, Oklahoma

Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 00:08:15 -0500
From: The Carriers
To: bluebird bluebird
Subject: Thanks again..

Hi all!

Thanks again for the replys; this time it was much more informative and I hope helpful.

I do appologise for giving the impression I was only asking those having EBBS. In fact, I wanted to see the replys from all over and compare. I did assume in the hot south and west, all day sun makes a box an oven, and from what I read, I was right.Thanks for the confermation though TX and CA.

Here in the northeast, we find placing boxes in the open, with mostly all day sun seems to attract the BBs better. On very hot days during the summer, of which we have no more that 5 or 6 on average a year, the wood insulation properties do the trick (usualy) of keeping the inside cooler than the outside temp, plus the nights always cool them down again to normal temps. This I assume is not the case for you in the south and west.

Having permission from many land owners here to place my boxes only on the field edges does limit the areas I can sellect as suitable BB sites. I do try then to use the northern edges, for they recieve the most daily sun. In the 14 years of monitoring BB boxes in my town, I have experimented with placing boxes on all sides of fields, from the totaly sun free south sides, to the optimal north sides, which always do better for attracting BBs.

Also, The more shade the box is in, the better chances are you will get house wrens, mice, chickadees, Titmice and some other life. From this, I assume BBs will
always pick the sunniest site for their choice of nesting box over the more shadded ones. At least in this part of the country that is.

Anyway, thats what I have learned about sun requirements of BBs here in CT. If anyone has another twist to this assumption, I would be pleased to hear it.

Thanks all, from cold 35f CT........Paul

Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 07:46:11 -0600
From: "Keith & Sandy Kridler"
To: "BLUEBIRD-L"
Subject: Decatur TX.

Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas with Bradford pear trees in full bloom, Bearded iris blooming & sweet gum trees and oaks rapidly turning the fence rows into pale green water colors. Spring is here in Texas as the fields are awash in daffodil bloom and the heavy scent of Jonquils has slipping into the open windows this morning riding on the first rays of golden sunshine.

It is most important for those asking about their birds to always include an address. Decatur TX. will have in excess of 50 days and as many as 90 days where the temperature could reach at least 100*F while the birds are nesting in boxes. If they are located out in open fields and the boxes are improperly ventilated they will be ovens and probably will only be successful for the first nesting attempt.

In the south where temperatures will reach the 100*F range the boxes should be right alongside the tree lines where they will be protected from the afternoon sun. The 100' "rule" is ONLY for areas where the House Wren is a PROBLEM which is not all areas of it's range!

Boxes should still be located in short grass areas and not among leafy branches but even under a large tree well away from the trunk is OK in Texas. Remember predators climb trees searching for food. In the south where you mow around nestboxes out in fields DO NOT leave a strip of grass around your nestboxes as every snake crossing the field will inspect these "strips of shelter" either use a weed eater around the pole or simply pull up the pole and move it over a few feet to an area already mowed leaving a very flush yard or field with nothing different to attract predators. This will not bother the bluebirds as long as you don't shake the box too much. If you only have a few boxes then consider leaving some out in the open for the first nesting and then moving the boxes to more shaded locations as the summer heats up between nesting attempts! This year from first completed nest to normal last fledgling we will have bluebirds in the nestboxes for
the next 6 months. This will cover a huge range of weather and predator conditions which change month by month!

Of the 36 nestboxes I check by foot here at home covering about 30 acres, bluebirds have only chosen three, all within at least 15' of a tree and one "forgotten" box is totally covered up with honeysuckle in a horrible weedy fence row. All three boxes are on my neighbors 1&1/2 acre lot behind his house. Of the ten boxes mounted out in full sun in perfectly overgrazed pastures not a single box even has a "claim straw" in them! I believe that experienced female bluebirds will chose a box that is located in a cool location if given the choice! Remember that all they do for several weeks is fly from box to box checking out every cavity all day long. Often sitting inside the box and watching from every available perch nearby. I believe a home owner even on a small lot should never have less than 4 nestboxes and 4 boxes per acre on land with scattered trees, fence lines or woods nearby is about right to help other cavity nesting birds. Remember they all don't have to be "bluebird boxes"! KK

Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 20:58:34 -0800
From: "R_C Walshaw" walshaw"at"gte.net
To: "Bluebird Listserve" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Reply to Julie Clark, Lewiston, Idaho

Julie asked why I recommended pointing the BB house opening down the fence when placing them on fenceposts along highways. This is so the BB or other bird fledgings have the fence and perhaps small bushes to land on when they make their first flight. Also they are less apt to fly across road traffic. I have had much success with road house placements even when the roads carry high speed traffic (one of our BB Society members has houses along the Turner Turnpike between Tulsa and Oklahoma City). My theory is that automobiles both stir up and kill or wound a lot of insects.

Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 21:20:44 -0800
From: "R_C Walshaw" walshaw"at"gte.net
To: "Bluebird Listserve" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Answer to Dan McCue, Camden, Tenn.

Dan recommended facing boxes South or S.E. This is one of the many fun things about bluebirding - many things work, and some things work better in particular areas. Trial and error is interesting and the bluebirds change from year to year. I am still puzzled as to why a specific nestbox will have two broods one year and with the same facing and other conditions will stand empty the next year. Dan - I have tried a lot of different directions and still find that what works best here is facing them toward the best short grass feeding area. Also we get a lot of hot winds out of the south in the summer, and in the highway placements that I covered in another email you have only two choices and it depends on the direction that the road is going. PS - I have lived in eastern =

Tennessee and I loved it. Two of my children still live in the Knoxville area.

Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 08:17:42 -0500
From: "Patricia Haught"
To: , "Bluebird Listserve"
Subject: Re: Answer to Dan McCue, Camden, Tenn.

Hi All, I received my Stokes video on bluebirds yesterday from NABS. Did take a few minutes to watch it last night. They offered a couple of suggestions about placing bluebird boxes. (1) Don't place the entrance hole toward the prevailing wind and (2) face it toward a tree so that the fledglings will have someplace close by to fly to when they leave the nest. I listened closely to see if they mentioned placing them in any specific direction, but I didn't hear them make any such recommendation. I had read previously to place your boxes facing East and most of ours do face east. I'm sure that most of you know this already, but there may be a few new members who don't. Just thought that I'd add to the ongoing discussion. Have a good day. Patty in WV

Dan recommended facing boxes South or S.E. I have tried a lot of different directions and still find that what works best here is facing them toward the best short grass feeding area. Also we get a lot of hot winds out of the south in the summer, and in the highway placements that I covered in another email you have only two choices and it depends on the direction that the road is going.

Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 15:36:13 -0800 (PST)
From: Stan Merrill
To: blueburd"at"srnet.com, BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Height of Bluebird boxes

Greetings from Apple Valley (suburb of St. Paul), MinneSNOWta! Nearly back to being "Minnesota" now that snow is nearly gone...probably due for more before Spring finally sets in.

Enjoyed feeding grape jelly to Orioles and nectar to Hummingbirds last summer. Hoping to attract bluebirds this summer. Bought and hung a bluebird mealworm feeder (with openings at both ends) recently. Have seen a bluebird on occasion in our area. Any ideas for increasing chances of attracting them will be appreciated. I was interested in comments about height of bluebird boxes. My sister, living in Hot Springs Village,Arkansas, is a "back-up" monitor of one of the bluebird trails sponsored by their local AudubonSociety. Boxes are at eye-level, and seemingly quite successful. Any of you who are interested in feeding grape jelly to Orioles, let me know; will e-mail you a"brainstorm." Happy birding!

Stan Merrill, St. Paul,MN

Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 09:18:11 -0600
From: Kathleen Oschwald nestbox"at"1starnet.com
To: Bluebird-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: nestbox height

To: Lin Towler and others

Your

Question: Is there a safe way to check for eggs in a nest? I mean, the
side of the nest is 3 1/2' tall and I can't see all the way down into
the nest bottom. (So, I'm short, ok!!) So if I reach in to check for
eggs, what should I be aware (afraid) of finding in there, if anything?
Or should I not touch but only look?

All my nestboxes are mounted just above my eye level, to keep them safe from cats. For the ones close to the house I sometimes use a little Rubbermaid step stool to allow me to look in, but mostly I open the box and use a mirror. I rarely touch anything, haven't had to, except when eggs have sat WAY too long past expected hatching, then I touch to see if they're warm.

Kate Oschwald
Sumner, TX
100 mi NE of Dallas

Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 10:03:48 -0600
From: "Wright, Merlin C." mcwrigh"at"nppd.com
To: bluebird-l"at"cornell.edu
Subject: 300 ft minimum spacing

I almost never have two pair of bluebirds use adjacent boxes when spaced 300 feet apart and believe that distance only works when there are large areas of grass. Imagine three boxes placed in a triangle in a pasture with each leg of the triangle 300 feet long. Each box can have an imaginary circle with an area of 70000 square feet or 1 1/2 acre. When the feeding area is a roadside of 50-100 foot width, a tenth mile spacing is better than 300 feet. I believe we should emphasize the concept of minimum by saying 600 feet unless there is plenty of width to the feeding zone.

Merlin Wright at Brownville Nebraska

Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 10:08:30 -0600
From: "Wright, Merlin C." mcwrigh"at"nppd.com
To: bluebird-l"at"cornell.edu
Subject: RE: re checking nests

If you use conduit straps on the back of the box and they are not tight you can hold the box up with a nail through a hole in the pipe. Pulling the nail allows the box to be slid down for monitoring or showing the contents to children. This eliminates the reason for lifting people up to see the birds. There are some men east of the rockies and west of the Mississippi who will not want to use this method.

Merlin Wright at Brownville Nebraska

Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 11:51:40 EST
From: RWil2654"at"aol.com
To: mcwrigh"at"nppd.com, BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: 300 ft minimum spacing

I think that spacing depends more on food supply and that 300 feet is OK if this is adequate. I also try not to have boxes facing each other.

Re: Box height and monitoring, why not use the simple to build and mount EMT conduit 1/2" inside 3/4" with a bolt or nail keep them up and then remove the nail and it will come down to easy to see into height. Horrible grammar but I think you know what I mean.

Bob Wilson
(970) 242-5190 39* 06.21N 108*33.61 W
4,635 elevation Grand Junction Colorado
THE HOME OF ALL THREE BLUEBIRD SPECIES

Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 18:27:49 -0800
From: "R_C Walshaw" walshaw"at"gte.net
To: "Bluebird Listserve" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: 300 Foot Spacing

I believe that the nature of the terrain determines what will work. I have some BB nesting as close as 150 feet, but they are separated by a building, some trees, a hill, etc. Bluebird Bob, Coweta, OK

Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 11:21:58 -0600
From: "Claire Meyners" cawm"at"worldnet.att.net
To: BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Nestbox Spacing

I would like to join in the discussion on box spacing to say that At the Shaw Arboretum at Gary Summit, MO most of our boxes are barely 300' apart, and we get bluebirds in neighboring boxes regularly. We have lots of restored prairie, wetlands, etc. and by alternating sides of the road, facing boxes in different directions, etc., the bluebirds seem to naturally assume different territories. Also, sometimes they use one box for the first brood, and a neighboring box for the next one. (Our restored native plant areas provide great feeding sources--which probably is a major determinant in how closely bluebirds nest.)

Claire
Wildwood, MO

Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 19:38:02 -0800
From: "R_C Walshaw" walshaw"at"gte.net
To: "Bluebird Listserve" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Lin/Randy - nest inspection

Following the rule of thumb to put up houses so that the nest is eye high when the house is opened makes it easy. Touching, handling, banding within reason causes no problem with bluebirds.

Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 19:02:47 -0600
From: "Daniel Wunder" dwunder"at"home.com
To: BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu

Lori Nashvile, Tn.

Does anyone know if there is a certain direction that your bludbird house needs to hang? Also, which bluebird house is best?

Thanks

Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 21:32:17 -0800
From: "R_C Walshaw" walshaw"at"gte.net
To: "Bluebird Listserve" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Lori's question on house direction and the best type of house

Much research has been done on both questions and there is still a lot of disagreement among "experts" and others. Also what works best in one area may not be best in another. What works well here in northeast Oklahoma is the type of box shown in The Bluebird Book by Donald and Lillian Stokes, available through any major bookstore. This is side opening (mine are front opening but similar), and is very easy to make from one 5 foot cedar or pine board. I have not found any direction best except facing the opening toward the best feeding area. (short grass like a lawn, pasture, golf course, etc.) Along highways I face them up or down the fence parallel to the traffic flow.

Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 09:57:21 -0600
From: Kathleen Oschwald nestbox"at"1starnet.com
To: Bluebird-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Boyd Co., KY Report

To Lin Towler:

At 11:35 AM 3/24/00 -0500, you wrote:

Got up early to check out Bluebird box activity. This is my first year
hosting Eastern Bluebirds and am finding how confusing it can be. I have
seen two pair of EABL's, I have 2 boxes with nests, but within 200' of
each other AND in line of sight from each other. Also, about 5 days ago,
noticed a small amount of wooly fur (from my black Chow) in the nest.
Immediately I thought Chickadee, but keep seeing the EABL going in and
out of this box. Then found a single piece of red Christmas tree tinsel
woven into the nest.

Re: nest materials: As I've said before, bluebirds don't read the same books we do. My first year of monitoring, I put out some (short) mane hairs from my horses, and the very first bluebird nest I had ever seen was lined with the chestnut hair, maybe more comfy than grass!

Re: nestbox spacing: Again, people, not bluebirds author the books! I suspect if bluebirds could write about their needs and preferences, even the "experts" would be amazed. We're all just making educated guesses.

This year I saw a location near Mount Pleasant,TX, (about 50 miles south of me) where three nestboxes were placed near a right-angle bend in a country road like so:

Open field
House
X
____________________
|
|
| _____________
| |
| | X
| |
X | | Open field
Open | |
field | |

According to Keith Kridler who was touring me around the area, all three nests were active last season, with each pair apparently using it's own designated open field, rather than the nestboxes each being at the center of a territory. They certainly weren't requiring 300 feet between each nestbox! And they could see the other two nestboxes easily. They are more adaptable than we think, and I imagine some pairs are more territorial than others. These were apparently fairly tolerant, and each agreed to stay on their own side of the road!

Kate Oschwald
Sumner, TX
100 mi NE of Dallas

Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 12:09:15 EST
From: RRCRLEP"at"aol.com
To: BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re:Bag Worms or Sand Snails or ??

Hello

We have these critters, which we have called dirt bugs, in our yard during the summer. I have not seen them on the nestbox though. They just attach themselves to some of my plants and destroy them if I don't pick them off. So I think, (hopefully), they only like plant life.

REL
Hayden, Idaho

Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 11:49:20 -0800
From: "Julie Clark" jaclark"at"lewiston.com
To: "Bluebird Discussion Group" bluebird-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Horses eating nestboxes

Has anybody had experience with horses gnawing on nestboxes? I've been watching a pair of WEstern BLuebirds in a horse pasture, and was thinking of asking the owner if I could mount a pair of nestboxes on his property. I know horses gnaw on wooden fence posts, so was just wondering if they'd make short work of a nestbox, or disturb the birds too much? Any info would be greatly appreciated!

Julie Clark
Lewiston, Idaho
jaclark"at"lewiston.com

Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 20:44:26 EDT
From: "Rwatts" rwatts"at"mymailstation.com
To: bluebird-l"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re:Horses eating nestboxes

Julie Clark wrote:----------------------------------------

Has anybody had experience with horses gnawing on nestboxes?

-----------------------------------------------------------

Absolutely. Depends on the horse; in my case it's been the younger filly, now 4, who nibbles at jumps as well-- I suspect part if it is the teething.

Location is part of the solution. If you can put boxes on fence lines, assuming there is an electric tape to protect the permanent fence, you'll be fine. Another tactic is to place the boxes, then use 4 electric fence posts with "dummy" electric wire to make a square around each set of paired boxes; if the horses know what electric wire/tape is, they probably will respect the appearance even though the wire isn't "hot." Still a third idea (which I'm not quite as keen on) is to anoint the edges of the box with something the horses won't like, such as a red-pepper solution or Cribox; the problem is that the horse will still have a chance to nibble before s/he tastes it, and can also rub against it. Mounting boxes high up is not really going to solve it; they have long necks and plenty of ambition!

Do check out the idea, though--it's ideal because of the short turf!

Rhonda Watts
Wilton, N.H.

Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 20:24:47 -0800
From: "R_C Walshaw" walshaw"at"gte.net
To: "Bluebird Listserve" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Julie Clark - Horses Gnawing

Yes. I have several houses that have been gnawed on by horses, but they are still functional. My doors are closed with phillips head screws which helps. (it also cuts down on kids and curious onlookers as most people do not carry phillips screwdrivers in their pockets!).

Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 20:58:27 -0800
From: "R_C Walshaw" walshaw"at"gte.net
To: "Bluebird Listserve" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Gary and others re: nestbox height

Northeast Oklahoma, Eastern Bluebirds, 80 box trail - all boxes eye high. The only time I have ever had a problem with a jumping predator was when I foolishly had one on a post 2 feet from the end of a wooden fence. Make it easy on yourselves - eye high. The bluebirds like this too. They will even nest in abandoned mailboxes at a lower height. Our Oklahoma Bluebird Society President is Charlotte Jernigan who is also a past president of NABS. This is her practice too.

Nestbox placement (Part 1)

Nestbox placement (Part 2)

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