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Nestbox Pairing (Part 7)In addition to Messages that have appeared in the Bluebird Mailing Lists on this topic, the following are on the Audubon Society of Omaha website:
From: PTom I'm forwarding again a question that I've asked more than once before. So far, I have not found anyone who has bluebirds not selecting a nestbox in an area because there were too many nestboxes close together. I know of many examples of bluebirds nesting when there is a "community" of nestboxes 15 - 30 yards apart. (It's just that only one nestbox will be used by bluebirds; other nestboxes are used by other species.) Does it ever happen the other way? Are there instances when nestboxes were "too close" and after some were removed the bluebirds nested? Does 15 - 30 yards apart ever hamper a single bluebird couple from selecting one of the nestboxes? Thanks, From: "Bruce Burdett" blueburd"at"tds.net Pauline, 15 to 30 YARDS apart does not strike me as very close together. (That's 45' to 90', - definitely not paired) My reason for the 15-foot spacing is to prevent Tree Swallow competition, which is intense in my area. Without this pairing I'd have all Tree Swallows and no Bluebirds. As it is, Bluebirds take one house and Tree Swallows take the other, and there is no competition. I like it because it works for me where I am.... Bruce Burdett, SW NH P.S. If there are no Tree Swallows or other intense competitors in your area, then probably pairing is not necessary. Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 08:38:48 -0700 From: "Gary Springer" In my opinion a bluebird trail is more attractive to bluebirds when nest boxes are spaced at 50 yards apart or closer because they not only have more options, but also because it is my experience that bluebirds rarely use the same nest box for the second and third clutches when others are nearby and available. Please read this carefully because I'm not saying that bluebirds rerely use the same nest box for successive broods. This is extremely common and in most cases bluebirds can be forced to use the same box over and over again, simply by spacing boxes more than 90 yards apart. What I'm saying is that if there are two or three nestboxes of like kind within 10 to 30 yards and similarly positioned and mounted, in my experience, they almost always selected a different box for successive nest attempts and almost never selected the same box twice in a row. Further, my experience shows that different pairs of Eastern Bluebirds will quite often nest simultaneously within 80 yards of each other, and even within 75 feet. A large area of continuous unbroken ideal bluebird habitat with severe nest site shortages will cause bluebirds to select nestboxes positioned very closely. In this situation I have observed them selecting insect hunting territories in opposite directions from the closely positioned boxes to minimize interaction between the pairs. In my opinion, the 100 yard "rule" for nest box spacing
is advisable only when all of the following are true: Gary Springer From: "Bruce Burdett" Pauline, Would you please let me know if you understand what
I mean by 15-foot pairing? (That's 15 feet, not yards.
I may have explained it badly, and if so, I'll try again. One
rule of thumb that I've formulated for my area: Bluebirds
will not nest closer than several hundred feet from other
Bluebirds. Their 'territories' are large. Tree Swallows, on
the other hand, will nest as close as 30 feet from other
Tree Swallows. Their 'territories' are much smaller. From: "judymellin" Subject: Re: 100 Yard nestbox spacing Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 My experience is quite different from this. We had nine boxes with one added mid-season to bring the total to 10. All are paired with 8'-15' between each box in a pair. This year, all of the boxes were used at one time or another by bluebirds, tree swallows and house wrens but, at all times during the season, there were empty boxes. In the first pair, bluebirds took one box and hatched four birds. The other box in that pair remained empty. A pair of bluebirds- since I am not licensed to band, I have no way of knowing if it was the same pair but it would seem logical- then used the same box that was used for the earlier nest. During the entire nesting season, the other box in this pair remained empty. This is not the first time this has happened but it is the only one that I can state without going back through my records. And, for the record, this trail sits on a 125 acre grassland with very similar habitat around all the boxes. What seemed unusual for us, though, was the fact that this pair of boxes sits at a slightly lower elevation (but, if you know anything about NE IL., you'll know that there is almost no elevation change anywhere in the area) while the bluebirds usually prefer the pair that sits slightly higher than the others. Judy Mellin NE IL. From: "PTom" Subject: Re: Reason for distance between nestboxes? Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 But, "15 feet apart" rather than "15 yards apart"
is another way to ask my question about "close". The
thing that brought it to mind again is in the FAQ on nabluebirdsociety.org
. NABS' REPLY: If there is not a football field between your boxes, then they're too close together. WHY? Because bluebirds are territorial. With that many houses in close of an area, the bluebirds are probably using them as perches to look for insects. If this has been happening on a regular basis, there's a good chance they are nesting near by. Check to make sure your boxes meet the requirements for bluebirds and space them further apart. (End quote) Many of us on the list have experienced a single pair of bluebirds selecting a single nestbox that's "close" to several UNOCCUPIED nestboxes. I'm not looking for another answer to the question that was posed to NABS. Rather, I'm asking, "has anyone anywhere ever experienced bluebirds rejecting a nestbox because it was in the midst of other unoccupied nestboxes? Pauline Tom Mountain City TX From: "judymellin" Maybe there are folks who have large numbers of boxes close enough together- and close enough to where they live- that they could observe this on a very frequent basis but I think that most of us who could conceivably have enough space for "box saturation" have distant trails that we can only visit once a week or so. Maybe someone on this listserv has 10 or more boxes in a backyard but I would be surprised. I would think most folks on this listserv are aware of basic territorial needs of any species. I would think one would have to be able to see all their boxes and to watch them for long periods of time to see this. Judy Mellin NE IL. From: "PTom" I'm not talking about pairing at all. (There is no Tree Swallow
issue in Texas). But, "15 feet apart" rather
than "15 yards apart" is another way to ask
my question about "close". The thing that
brought it to mind again is in the FAQ on nabluebirdsociety.org
. THE QUESTION FROM NABS FAQ: I live in southern
NH. I have six houses in a cluster from 15 to 30 feet
apart. The bluebirds come in the morning, sit on the houses
and mess around for a while and then leave. No takers.
Any ideas why they won't stay? NABS' REPLY: If there is
not a football field between your boxes, then they're too close
together. WHY? Because bluebirds are territorial. With that
many houses in close of an area, the bluebirds are probably
using them as perches to look for insects. If this has been
happening on a regular basis, there's a good chance they are
nesting near by. Check to make sure your boxes meet the requirements
for bluebirds and space them further apart. (End quote)
Many of us on the list have experienced a single pair of bluebirds
selecting a single nestbox that's "close" to several
UNOCCUPIED nestboxes. I'm not looking for another answer to
the question that was posed to NABS. Rather, I'm asking, "has
anyone anywhere ever experienced bluebirds rejecting a nestbox
because it was in the midst of other unoccupied nestboxes? From: "PTom" I wonder if people have not had a chance to experience bluebirds up close because they've put out nestboxes according to instructions that say "Boxes for the Eastern Bluebird should be spaced at least 100 to 150 yards apart" and "Open rural country with scattered trees " and "away from human traffic"? (These quotes are from NABS' "Getting Started with Bluebirds") From what I hear and have experienced, folks who put several
out on their suburban yards (with 1/8 acre or less of lawn)
often get bluebirds and they experience the peace, joy &
hope of bluebirds from the windows of their home and as they're
out in their yard. I have more than 10 nestboxes in my backyard.
I recall that Steve Garr has many in his yard. Others do, too.
Several of my nestboxes are occupied by various species at the
same time. Not all nestboxes are used in a season. But, the
birds have a choice and it's working for me. I wonder if others
are missing out because they haven't tried it because they've
not colored outside the lines? From: "Nancy C. Hebb" I can't figure out my blues. I have a trail of almost 30 boxes (some paired, some singles). While two pairs chose to nest in pastures, they then joined three other pairs nesting in boxes close to the house/buildings for succeeding broods this year. That means I had four pairs in boxes closer to each other than 100 feet, let alone 100 yards, and one pair raised three broods in the same house even when I put up a nice, clean box right next to the first so they wouldn't have to start over in the dirty one. There are boxes in a neighbor's yard, and she had blues, too. I had empty boxes well spaced throughout the farm. They just seemed to want to be closer to the buildings. Are my bluebirds backward-thinking? Do they harbor an affinity for slovenly housekeeping (well, they've come to the right place judging by my home)? Are they just so grateful that someone finally put up boxes here that they want to come close and put on a show for me? Anyway, bottom line was six pairs of bluebirds, three tree swallows, two chickadee, one titmouse, and three wren nestings where before there weren't any. All the blues raised three broods of four to six each....all eggs hatched and all young lived to fledging age. I've added more boxes and am hoping for more blues next year.... Nancy Hebb in Michigan From: "Paula" Years ago before I knew anything about bluebirds, I had bluebird pair nest in my purple martin house. Given 11 other compartments to choose from, the house sparrows still killed the nestlings. Allowing HOSP to nest nearby is a recipe for disaster. My bluebird mentor said it best when she told me "If you have house sparrows, you won't have bluebirds." I also try to carefully site my boxes at least 40 yards from brushy areas or major stands of trees to reduce house wren competition. House wrens are of course a native bird and I would never disturb a nesting pair, but I seldom get one due to careful box siting. Another reason to space boxes as recommended (100 - 150 yards apart) is the competition for food. A nesting pair of bluebirds has a lot of mouths to feed. If I have boxes all bunched together with even one other species nesting that eats ground dwelling insects, I force my bluebirds to range farther from their nest to find enough food. If they are not nearby to defend their nest, I thereby increase the possibility of predation of the eggs/nestlings or attack from competitor bird. Now the beauty of "pairing" boxes 15 feet apart in areas where tree swallows (I LOVE these guys) are prevalent is you help out two species at once. Tree swallows are not known to harm the nest of birds living adjacent to them and tree swallows eat flying insects, not so much ground dwelling ones. Therefore, the two species can live together rather nicely, not competing for either food or nesting. They also are quite a force when banded together if a non-native bird tries to evict either bird from its box. As Bruce said too, in an area that has tree swallows, as on my trail, I would get only tree swallows if I did not pair the boxes. They are great defenders of their nest. I must admit I cannot stare one down when they fly at me during a nest check. They come within inches of my face, and although they have never actually hit me, I just can't let something that fast get that close to my eyes without flinching. Please note that while two boxes are paired 15 feet apart in this instance, those "pairs" are then spaced the recommended 100 - 150 yards apart to get that next pair out of the territory of the other EABL's. Now having said all that, I do use one box on my suburban lot that is spaced closer than 100 yards from other box. With one box in front yard and one in back (only 1/3 acre lot), I have had bluebirds nesting simultaneously in both because they cannot see each other with my big old people nest box in the middle. The nice thing about this arrangement too is that here in suburbia where house sparrows are EVERYWHERE, when one box is not occupied by bluebirds, it acts as a "decoy" box for house sparrows, calling them in to be trapped by me within 24 hours of interest. I eliminate a lot of competition from house sparrows this way
and have not lost a single EABL nestling or adult to HOSP attack
since employing this practice. I like having one "extra"
box in house sparrow prevalent areas because I believe the HOSP
is more likely to attempt nesting in the empty box rather than
the one already occupied by another bird. Either way, they are
already in the neighborhood and will nest in eaves of houses,
pine trees etc. I get the ones that really want a box, making
it less likely for them to try to evict my nesting EABL's. I
hope this helps. From: "judymellin" From Pauline: " Rather, I'm asking, "has anyone anywhere
ever experienced bluebirds rejecting a nestbox because it was
in the midst of other unoccupied nestboxes?" From: "PTom" ptom"at"austin.rr.com
I wonder if people have not had a chance to experience bluebirds up close because they've put out nestboxes according to instructions that say "Boxes for the Eastern Bluebird should be spaced at least 100 to 150 yards apart" and "Open rural country with scattered trees " and "away from human traffic"? (These quotes are from NABS' "Getting Started with Bluebirds") From what I hear and have experienced, folks who put several
out on their suburban yards (with 1/8 acre or less of lawn)
often get bluebirds and they experience the peace, joy &
hope of bluebirds from the windows of their home and as they're
out in their yard. I have more than 10 nestboxes in my backyard.
I recall that Steve Garr has many in his yard. Others
do, too. Several of my nestboxes are occupied by various
species at the same time. Not all nestboxes are used in
a season. But, the birds have a choice and it's working for
me. I wonder if others are missing out because they haven't
tried it because they've not colored outside the lines? From: judymellin From Pauline: " Rather, I'm asking, "has anyone anywhere
ever experienced bluebirds rejecting a nestbox because it was
in the midst of other unoccupied nestboxes?" I'm not sure
that many people would even have had a chance to experience
what you are asking. Maybe there are folks who have large
numbers of boxes close enough together- and close enough to
where they live- that they could observe this on a very frequent
basis but I think that most of us who could conceivably have
enough space for "box saturation" have distant trails
that we can only visit once a week or so. Maybe someone
on this listserv has 10 or more boxes in a backyard but I would
be surprised. I would think most folks on this listserv
are aware of basic territorial needs of any species. I would
think one would have to be able to see all their boxes and to
watch them for long periods of time to see this.
From: rindfleisch12"at"elknet.net
...I have 11 EABL boxes all within easy viewing of the front and back yard (at least until my trees grow (a lot) and with the use of binocs. - on 26 acres + neighbors 5 acres. And I have 2 wren boxes. I've paired 2x2 houses for wren competition this year and EABLs fledged 3/3 later this summer in one** of the paired sets - both mounted on 1 pole. So typically, I can see all 13 boxes from my yard... which is mostly open but has tree-lines and small patches of same. INTERESTING NOTE**: The other paired-house was empty with the lat nestin, although nearly taken by a HOSP. I have considered the "open house" where the HOSP wanted to live may have saved the nesting EABLs at that time. Thru up a "sparrow spooker" and got rid of the HOSP (other houses open if he insisted on having a box) EABL success!!! Anyone experience the same??? I will have no idea if the vacant paired-house spared the EABLs, but I am sure glad I spotted him when I did. Anyone experience the same??? 4 houses house wrens - Sooo many babies!!! 3 houses EABLs 13/13 2 houses tree swallows 13/13 1 house HOSP 0/4 4 houses never used I was very pleased!!! Cheryl R. - SE Wisconsin Realizing that many bird species can be friendly neighbors ... and am blessed with 47 speices of birds living/nesting here or passing by in 2003 to date! ** I would expect there are know box takers because it is not nesting season(?). From: "Jim McLochlin"
bluebirdbox"at"cox.net Pauline, The placement of nestboxes on my trail is primarily intended to encourage bluebirds. However any native cavity nesting bird is welcome. I do try to place boxes that will more than likely result in competition amongst any of the species. For me that means I must pair some boxes as does Bruce to prevent tree swallows from using a single box located in both bluebird and tree swallow habitat. It also means I try to place boxes away from shrubby areas, because placement of boxes in those areas will result in house wrens occupying that box and excluding other cavity nesters from surrounding boxes. On my trail I would never consider placing a nest box in a tree (although I have placed them in the shade of a tree - usually that box goes unused, unless it is a very hot year). All in all my nest box placement pretty much follows the NABS guidelines. Boxes are paired when necessary for tree swallows at 15 to 25 feet apart (mine are closer to the 15 feet, but I don't measure). Distance between nest sites is 100 yards, except I cheat on this when an obstruction (i.e. hill or very large tree) prevents the boxes from being easily seen from an adjacent box. I would never place them closer than 200 feet unless I was pairing the boxes. I do this not just because this is the guideline (although the experience of others does justify that consideration), but because it works in my situation. I have tried other distances and have witnessed aggression (mostly in the first nesting) between males competing for the same territory. I don't know if what you are experiencing is a geographical phenomena or if cavities are in such short supply that higher concentrations are acceptable to the birds. Surely there has to be an explanation for what you are seeing. I can say that it is not unusual for a nest box on my trail to go unused for an entire year by any species. These are boxes are in what I would call prime habitat, so my belief is that there are more cavities than birds. Decreasing the spacing on the boxes would increase aggressive instincts in the birds and thus decrease their time pursuing the act of procreating. I can see one argument that increasing the aggressive behavior might be good. That would be to teach self defense, but that is probably weak. From: "Gary Springer" Very true Linda, When you give birds options by spacing nestboxes closer than 100 yards there will be nestboxes that for some reason will go unused, sometimes year after year after year when seemingly identical boxes within thirty to ninety feet are used repeatedly by many species. There is no way of knowing why. I have one perfectly situated NABS box that has gone unused for six years now while the five other boxes within thirty yards of it have experienced full occupancy and have fledged dozens of bluebirds, chickadees, tufted titmice, and Carolina wrens. Interesting thing is that the box that is not being used for nesting is being used for a winter roost box by a tufted titmouse almost every winter night for three years in a row and counting. Anyone who, as I am, is as excited by having a clutch of chickadees, titmice, Carolina wrens or nuthatches fledge from their nestboxes as they are when they have bluebirds use their nestboxes, will be thrilled by how many more of these other birds will fledge along side the bluebirds if they abandon the 100 yard rule. While fledging just as many bluebirds in a given area, additional boxes will fledge as many of these other birds as bluebirds at the same time. If you want just bluebirds in your nestboxes, stick with the 100 yard rule and you'll get far fewer titmice and chickadees interfering with your bluebird operation because while there are exceptions, these smaller birds don't compete well with the larger bluebirds for nestboxes. I believe many of these smaller birds initially shun nestboxes because they have experienced eviction by bluebirds repeatedly when boxes are placed at 100 yard intervals. So the success rate of other species on a trail will increase year after year as they learn that using a nestbox is a successful strategy because bluebirds have enough boxes to leave them alone. But, if you have a huge problem with house sparrows you'll want to locate a nearby area for your trail that doesn't have that problem, advice I would also consider even if you decide to continue hosting only bluebirds. Gary Springer Thu, 9 Oct 2003 08:41:04 -0500 Hi all, I am relatively new to the list so this topic may have
been previously discussed, but has anyone experimented with
varying heights when spacing nestboxes closer than 100 yards? From: "charlene anchor" What to do? Do I locate at the recommended distance or go back resulting in a shorter distance? I chose to go back. But that didn't stop me from being concerned about whether I did the right thing or not. As previously stated, unless boxes are located nearby for frequent observation there is no way to know for sure what is going on. It would seem that if the boxes were placed in a habitat where food was plenty that there would be less competition and more acceptance of closer neighbors. But I have no way of knowing. Probably the general guidelines stated by NABS is the best place to start. Recently I discussed some of my concerns with an ornithologist from our local university who did his thesis on Western Bluebirds. He feels there are many "myths" out there and that one has to try various things and see what works, then adjust. That eased my mind. I know I probably made so me errors in judgment but that I can learn from them and hopefully make a better choice next time. One of the important factors in all of this seems to be careful and considerate monitoring. Charlene Anchor, Illinois From: "Bruce Burdett" Sharon, et al, As I've said, ALL my houses are paired, and the 2 boxes in each pair are 15 FEET apart. That's FEET, not yards. The distance between the pairs of boxes on my "trail" is about 500 feet to about three miles. My boxes are about 5.5 feet from the ground, because I am 6' 6" tall. I think that the boxes should be the height of the monitor's chin. In Texas, however, perhaps pairing is not necessary, since you may not have the competitive species that we have in NH, like Tree Swallows. I would consult with Texas bluebirders about your local competitive species. The map in my Peterson's shows no Tree Swallows in Texas, but there may be OTHER competitive species. Ask around. Bruce Burdett, SW NH From: "PTom" I wonder if this could be "the thing" on the 100 yard "rule" .. When "bluebird trails" started, it was to save bluebirds from a serious decline ... so, rules were written that produced only bluebirds (exception: Tree Swallows in more northern states; and, those areas came up with "pairing"). It worked! At this point, the downward cycle in the bluebird population has been turned around and bluebird organizations now promote all native small cavity nesting species. But, the rules for nestbox placement have not been adjusted for the new focus on "all native cavity nesting" species. And, since (as I understand it) each bluebird's territory is dependent not upon the distance but upon the food supply, in the far South where insects are plentiful almost all year long, there never was a need to space the nestboxes 100 yards apart ... even if one wanted to attract only bluebirds. 100 feet seems to be a more general guideline, in years when insects are plentiful. Do you know the old story about the daughter asking her mom, "Why do you chop off the end of the roast before putting it the oven?" The mom told her, "It's because we've always done it that way". The little girl asked, "Whay have we always done it that way?" The mom didn't know so she asked the grandmother. The grandmother didn't know so she asked the great-grandmother. 'Oh! Yes, I remember", the great-grandmother said, "We had to cut off the end of the roast because our largest pan wasn't large enough to hold the whole roast". The great-grandmother was an awesome, well-respected cook. She was doing what worked best at the time. Conditions had changed. I think we do well (and the birds benefit) to continually ask "why do we have this rule or that rule?"; and, if the reason no longer applies ... change. Pauline Tom Mountain City (no mountains) TX Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 10:44:19 When pairing nestboxes this coming year, our goal will be to provide nesting spaces for as many native cavity nesting species as possible in a given amount of space. By varying nestbox placement and height, we will be trying to encourage desirable competitive species such as chickadees and titmice. Many of us do not encounter serious competition from non-native species, but still hope to benefit from nestbox pairing. Last year we experienced an abundance of chickadees which occupied 17 of our 24 nestboxes. This greatly decreased the number of BB's we might have been able to fledge. By pairing and proper nestbox placement, we hope to fledge more than just one species. Is anyone practicing nestbox pairing to encourage other native cavity-nesters? Thanks, Sharon Kersten XE Ranch Nature Preserve NE Milam County, Texas From: "Keith & Sandy Kridler" The issue of how many nestboxes to place in a given area is simply a matter of personal choice for humans but can have great impact on the numbers and types of cavity nesters using the boxes. Think about "natural" woodpecker cavities for moment. They are normally in dead or dying trees and I have seen four different species of woodpeckers drilling holes in the same tree in the same summer so they are creating cavities for four different species of secondary cavity nesters in the same tree. Our large dead sweetgum tree had 11 different complete cavities in it this year before the limbs all started dropping. I don't think I have the right to go shoo the woodpeckers to another tree exactly 100 yards away and make them drill a certain sized hole! For millions of years these birds have flown around and have chosen a nest site and I doubt if in the next million years any human is going to read their minds as to why they chose the site or nestbox they did.... In the south disease or insects in trees will spread from a single infestation and may affect an acre or two and there can be dozens and dozens of cavities created over the life of these snags. Beaver often create snags over miles of shoreline but once again they are often very localized. Historically fires could create the perfect conditions for hundreds of cavities to be created in the killed trees in a very small area and allow huge colonies of swallows to nest close together for protection. In the Berlet film on bluebirds they filmed three different species of "wild" cavity nesters that were living in three woodpecker cavities within a 36" vertical trunk height. Bluebirds use the nestboxes in Alberta Canada where Myrna Pearman has about 100 different styles and makes of nestboxes placed on about 2 acres of land and the boxes are mounted on every fence post in their yard. You can tell which box the bluebirds use but you will NEVER be able to say honestly WHY they chose one box over another. Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 09:54:06 Sharon, there has been some discussion in past posts about varying heights of nestboxes in relation to predator control. Height variance for attracting other species has been minimal and your comments touch upon an area which deserves far more discussion. In congested city/urban areas (such as my Yorba Linda, Calif trail) nestboxes must be hung over heavily used parks and greenbelts. I've tried to attract other species by offering boxes with various sized holes at different heights. At an experimental site, the co-monitor and I have saturated some portions of the park with "pods" of box clusters. The pod will usually attract one Western Bluebird pair, the extra boxes will attract multiple pairs of House Sparrows (we have too many House Sparrows for trapping to be considered an effective method of House Sparrow control). You may review the multi-box WEBL/HOSP "pod" interaction by reviewing the tables shown at: http://home.earthlink.net/~lviolett/testmirada.html On the mountain trail (7,000' altitude), multiple boxes at various heights, dimensions, hole sizes and configurations *will* attract a diversity of cavity nesters. The mountain trail is my "fun" trail because of the variety of species attracted to the nestboxes. In the immediate area around my cabin, there are about a dozen boxes within a tight area and only one or two of these boxes are used each year. The high vacancy of this cluster may be due to the traffic level of wildlife (including bird predators) attracted to an artificial water source (plastic ground-level pond). Or the high vacancy could be due to the family next door who routinely turn their cabin into a shooting range for their kids (BB-pellet guns). Further away from this high activity area of the mountain trail, both multiple box clusters and single box sites are attracting a diverse range of cavity nesters. And I do believe the frequency of Pygmy Nuthatches using the boxes is due to the factor you mentioned . . . the height of the box. Last season, Pygmy Nuthatches chose a "Chickadee" box with 1.25" holes which was paired with a "Bluebird" box with 1.56" holes. The Bluebird eggs in that pair of boxes were pecked and destroyed and I'm blaming the Pygmy Nuthatches. Next year, the smaller box will be lowered from 18 feet to 10 feet to see if Pygmy Nuthatches can be deterred from using the box so that the desired combination of Bluebirds and Mountain Chickadees can be achieved. From: "Bruce Burdett" Pauline, et al, I am at a disadvantage in this discussion because I quite simply had never heard of the "100-yard rule," and I'm not even sure that I know what it means or where it came from...... I n my view, there really are no "rules," as such. There are various suggestions and theories which vary widely depending on what part of the continent you're in. What works in NH doesn't necessarily work in TX and vice versa. All my houses (72 now) are on steel poles, whereas Linda hangs hers from tree limbs. Pairing works well where I am, but it's not needed where there are no competing species...................... I can see no harm whatever in crowding lots of boxes in a small space. It might be an interesting experiment. Ultimately the various species will use the boxes they need and no more. If a few stand empty, so what? No harm done. I do know from long experience that Bluebirds and Tree Swallows will nest 15 feet apart without strife, or competition, or fighting. They seem to like each other......... But if there is only one house at a given 'site,' they'll compete for it, and the swallows usually win. I have little experience with House Sparrows or Starlings, or 'coons or cats or snakes, so I "know" little about those pests, and can give no advice about them. I use no baffles, and I need none. I have no houses within sight of our house, simply because I've never seen a Bluebird in this wooded area. ... Bruce Burdett, SW NH Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 18:45:06 What works in one loc. may not work at some other loc., so whatsoever is working for you keep on doing. Maynard Sumner Flint, MI From: "Paula" Pauline, I think I understand what you are asking now so tell me if I got it wrong. Are you asking whether or not a bluebird pair would shun a box because it is in the midst of a cluster of boxes? If so, I don't feel really qualified to answer, but will conjecture a bit based on my experience. If in suitable habitat, I see no reason why a bluebird pair would not try to nest in one of the boxes in a cluster. Of course, you would only get one bluebird pair in that cluster due to their territorial requirements. However, if any of the boxes in the cluster is allowed to breed house sparrows, you greatly reduce the bluebirds' chances of a successful brood and their very survival. With careful management and trapping, having other boxes in the yard can be very useful as you can remove house sparrows as they become interested in the empty boxes. That is my experience. Also on my trail, I have 7 sets of "paired" boxes with 100 yard spacing between. The habitat of the paired boxes is mowed park land with sparse trees (mostly just mowed grass). On the same trail, I also have what I would consider a cluster (like you described) of 6 boxes spaced about 25 feet apart on bank of farm pond. I have only been operating trail for 2 years, but one pair of bluebirds always chooses one of the boxes in the cluster by the pond. The other boxes are reserved for other native cavity nesters (mostly tree swallows on my trail). I do not get bluebirds in every of my 7 "paired" sets, but always have one pair by the pond. The clustering is not deterring them from nesting here, but I am guessing that the real draw to this particular location is the wonderful water source. Siting and management are so important in my view when it comes to nestboxes. The woman you mentioned who had the question on the NABS site may have had her boxes in poor bluebird habitat (maybe brushy area or too close to building) or allowed her other boxes to become house sparrow hotels. Either situation could easily cause that pair to nest in more hospitable area. I think what makes me cringe a little when I hear about a lot of nestboxes in one location is the situation I have seen all too often - where a well meaning, but unknowledgable homeowner has put up a bunch of nestboxes and allowed them to be overrun with house sparrows. Paula Z Powell (Central) Ohio From: "Nancy C. Hebb" Hi, all. I'm fascinated by the idea of varying height of boxes to increase attractiveness to different species. I see preferred heights listed for some species, but am curious about downy and hairy woodpeckers. I've also put up boxes with varying size holes to help the chickadees thwart eviction by other species, but wondered about varying heights for them now, too. I have a LOT of woodpeckers competing for natural cavities and thought maybe I could lend a hand in "their neck of the woods" so to speak, and wondered about box height. Wrens could be competitive in the area I'm thinking of... Thanks! Nancy H. in Michigan From: "Larry A Broadbent" Nancy, Gary Springer from GA has done exactly this. Putting up nestboxes at various heights, and he is getting fantastic results over the standard 5 to 6 ' height recommended for Eastern Bluebirds. He is getting a far greater number of different cavity nesting birds nesting and has found that even the Bluebirds in his are choose the higher mounted boxes over the lower mounted height boxes. I'm doing the same thing in my area of Chatham, Ontario Canada. Here's an example of a Kestrel box wt. 3" hole mounted 16' off the ground that was used by a nesting pair of Eastern Bluebirds in the state of MD. http://www.wap.atfreeweb.com/kestrel/kb-site21.html Good thing no Kestrels wanted this box at the same time. Regards, Larry A Broadbent Ontario, Canada Subject: Re: 100 Yard nestbox spacing What I imagine happened is that house sparrows moved in like crazy. Hence, our early bluebird experts came up with the 100 yard rule. Gary pointed out both the advantages and disadvantages of saturating an area with boxes. This last year was my first year to saturate my yard with nest boxes. I didn't get kestrels or Great Cresteds or Flickers (in my yard)- - - but I did get a pair of chickadees. What a thrill! However, where I live, saturating an area with boxes means taking SO much more responsibility as we have HOSP and EUST here. So, this is my concern - the more boxes one puts up the more responsibility one must take. :-) H From: Sharon Kersten sak"at"tlab.net
When pairing nestboxes this coming year, our goal will be to provide nesting spaces for as many native cavity nesting species as possible in a given amount of space. By varying nestbox placement and height, we will be trying to encourage desirable competitive species such as chickadees and titmice. Many of us do not encounter serious competition from non-native species, but still hope to benefit from nestbox pairing. Last year we experienced an abundance of chickadees which occupied 17 of our 24 nestboxes. This greatly decreased the number of BB's we might have been able to fledge. By pairing and proper nestbox placement, we hope to fledge more than just one species. Is anyone practicing nestbox pairing to encourage other native cavity-nesters? Thanks, Sharon Kersten XE Ranch Nature Preserve NE Milam County, Texas From: "charlene anchor"
charleneanchor"at"msn.com Have read the various postings about box spacing with interesting as I had been recently pondering (obsessing?) the same topic myself. In rehabbing the trail I've been working on I've been relocating boxes. In pacing off the recommended distances I would sometimes end up in a spot which didn't seem so good and would have passed up a spot which seemed better, namely with a perching tree nearby (I'm in a prairie-like habitat with few trees). What to do? Do I locate at the recommended distance or go back resulting in a shorter distance? I chose to go back. But that didn't stop me from being concerned about whether I did the right thing or not. As previously stated, unless boxes are located nearby for frequent observation there is no way to know for sure what is going on. It would seem that if the boxes were placed in a habitat where food was plenty that there would be less competition and more acceptance of closer neighbors. But I have no way of knowing. Probably the general guidelines stated by NABS is the best place to start. Recently I discussed some of my concerns with an ornithologist
from our local university who did his thesis on Western Bluebirds.
He feels there are many "myths" out there and that
one has to try various things and see what works, then
adjust. That eased my mind. I know I probably made
so me errors in judgment but that I can learn from them and
hopefully make a better choice next time. One of the important
factors in all of this seems to be careful and considerate monitoring.
From: "Bruce Burdett" blueburd"at"tds.net
Pauline, et al, I am at a disadvantage in this discussion because I quite simply had never heard of the "100-yard rule," and I'm not even sure that I know what it means or where it came from...... In my view, there really are no "rules," as such. There are various suggestions and theories which vary widely depending on what part of the continent you're in. What works in NH doesn't necessarily work in TX and vice versa. All my houses (72 now) are on steel poles, whereas Linda hangs hers from tree limbs. Pairing works well where I am, but it's not needed where there are no competing species...................... I can see no harm whatever in crowding lots of boxes in a small space. It might be an interesting experiment. Ultimately the various species will use the boxes they need and no more. If a few stand empty, so what? No harm done. I do know from long experience that Bluebirds and Tree Swallows will nest 15 feet apart without strife, or competition, or fighting. They seem to like each other.........But if there is only one house at a given 'site,' they'll compete for it, and the swallows usually win. I have little experience with House Sparrows or Starlings,
or 'coons or cats or snakes, so I "know" little about
those pests, and can give no advice about them. I use no baffles,
and I need none. I have no houses within sight of our house,
simply because I've never seen a Bluebird in this wooded area.
... From: "Paula" PaulaZ"at"columbus.rr.com
Pauline, I think I understand what you are asking now so tell me if I got it wrong. Are you asking whether or not a bluebird pair would shun a box because it is in the midst of a cluster of boxes? If so, I don't feel really qualified to answer, but will conjecture a bit based on my experience. If in suitable habitat, I see no reason why a bluebird pair would not try to nest in one of the boxes in a cluster. Of course, you would only get one bluebird pair in that cluster due to their territorial requirements. However, if any of the boxes in the cluster is allowed to breed house sparrows, you greatly reduce the bluebirds' chances of a successful brood and their very survival. With careful management and trapping, having other boxes in the yard can be very useful as you can remove house sparrows as they become interested in the empty boxes. That is my experience. Also on my trail, I have 7 sets of "paired" boxes with 100 yard spacing between. The habitat of the paired boxes is mowed park land with sparse trees (mostly just mowed grass). On the same trail, I also have what I would consider a cluster (like you described) of 6 boxes spaced about 25 feet apart on bank of farm pond. I have only been operating trail for 2 years, but one pair of bluebirds always chooses one of the boxes in the cluster by the pond. The other boxes are reserved for other native cavity nesters (mostly tree swallows on my trail). I do not get bluebirds in every of my 7 "paired" sets, but always have one pair by the pond. The clustering is not deterring them from nesting here, but
I am guessing that the real draw to this particular location
is the wonderful water source. Siting and management are so
important in my view when it comes to nestboxes. The woman
you mentioned who had the question on the NABS site may have
had her boxes in poor bluebird habitat (maybe brushy area or
too close to building) or allowed her other boxes to become
house sparrow hotels. Either situation could easily cause
that pair to nest in more hospitable area. I think what
makes me cringe a little when I hear about a lot of nestboxes
in one location is the situation I have seen all too often -
where a well meaning, but unknowledgable homeowner has put up
a bunch of nestboxes and allowed them to be overrun with house
sparrows. From: Mary Beth Roen Sharon and All, In the past, I have not paired my nest boxes
as recommended by the Bluebird Restoration Association of Wisconsin.
However, due to increasing competition from Tree Swallows, and
House Wrens, at the end of my season this year, I have just
paired all of my 28 boxes making 14 sites. I will be very interested
to see what my statistics are next year. This year 44 Eastern
Bluebirds, 70 House Wrens, and 45 Tree Swallows fledged from
my boxes. From: "Gary Springer"
springer"at"alltel.net Hi Pauline, You asked: Are there instances when nestboxes were "too close" and after some were removed the bluebirds nested? Does 15 - 30 yards apart ever hamper a single bluebird couple from selecting one of the nestboxes?" In my opinion a bluebird trail is more attractive fo bluebirds when nest boxes are spaced at 50 yards apart or closer because they not only have more options, but also because it is my experience that bluebirds rarely use the same nest box for the second and third clutches when others are nearby and available. Please read this carefully because I'm not saying that bluebirds rearely use the same nest box for successive broods. This is extremely common and in most cases bluebirds can be forced to use the same box over and over again.simply by spacing boxes more than 90 yards apart. What I'm saying is that if there are two or three nestboxes of like kind within 10 to 30 yards and similarly positioned and mounted, in my experience, they almost always selected a different box for successive nest attempts and almost never selected the same box twice in a row. Further, my experience shows that different pairs of Eastern Bluebirds will quite often nest simultaneously within 80 yards of each other, and even within 75 feet. A large area of continuous unbroken ideal bluebird habitat with severe nest site shortages will cause bluebirds to select nestboxes positioned very closely. In this situation I have observed them selecting insect hunting territories in opposite directions from the closely positioned boxes to minimize interaction between the pairs. In my opinion, the 100 yard "rule" for nest box spacing
is advisable only when all of the following are true: 1)
The objective is to intentionally maximize assistance to bluebirds
and intentionally minimize assistance to all other cavity nesting
song birds.. 2) There is unlimited quality bluebird habitat
in which to mount nestboxes 3) Travel expenses and nest
box monitoring time are not factors when considering the quantity
of resources to allocate to providing nest sites for cavity
nesting song birds. And, even if all of these are the intent
of the nestbox trail owner, it seems 90 yard spacing would be
more efficient. I believe 100 yards was selected because
people like nice round numbers. If we used the metric
system I feel quite certain the recommended spacing would be
100 meters. And, if 100 yards were equal to a distance
of 280 feet, we would still be recommending spacing boxes at
100 yards, not 107 yards. Nestbox Pairing (Part 8) |
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