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Nestling Bluebirds (Part 1)In addition to Messages that have appeared in the Bluebird Mailing Lists on this topic, the following are on the Audubon Society of Omaha website: Predators and Problems On The Bluebird Trail Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 21:15:39 -0400 Dear list,
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 07:01:13 -0500 Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 20:12:47 EDT Pam, Atlanta, GA Hi Bluebirders, Being a pediatric nurse in a former life, I can tell they are
not lethargic or ill. I just assume they are well fed, yet expected
them to be more active Question: How active should 12 day old babies be? Is sleeping
most of the time normal at this age?
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 21:06:27 -0400 Pam, I may be wrong but I don't really think that they are
sleeping. I observe the same behavior in older chicks. I don't
know for sure but I've always thought that it's because the
parents have trained (?) them to remain perfectly still and
quiet whenever they hear noise, etc. as way to deter predators.
New chicks do cheep loudly and I can hear older chicks do the
same when parents arrive with food, however, whenever I open
a box or approach the nestbox, I hear nothing. If they continued
to cheep loudly, they would attract predators. Does that sound
reasonable? Someone else may offer a better or more accurate
explanation. Patty in WV
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 20:54:51 -0500 Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant Texas 101*F at 5 PM Opossum: Yes they can climb as good or better than raccoons
in some situations. They will eat very rotten meat whereas a
raccoon will not. This
Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 22:03:27 -0400 Dear all, Thank you Wendy, Keith and others who gave me some very detailed
instructions on how to handle this situation. If it ever comes
up again, I will know exactly what to do!
Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 07:24:22 -0400 Dear List, As the saying goes "every rule is made to be broken".
This is without a
Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 07:27:07 -0400 Dear list,
Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 21:13:51 -0400 Hi, As of the 8th, I have 5 baby bluebirds. They haven't opened their eyes yet. I had to take the whole nest out to see all of them, since the bluebirds built over a tree swallow nest. Everything that I have read on the bluebird society web page (www.bluebirdsociety.com) says I should check the babies. But when is it safe to pick them out of the nest? Should I use tongs to pick them up? I'm very scared of hurting the babies. This is my first nest. Are there any other web pages that give detailed instructions? I will be picking up The Bluebird Book by Don and Lillian Stokes this weekend. I received 1,000 medium mealworms this week, but the bluebirds don't seem interest in them yet. I've placed them in a small jar that the bluebirds should have no trouble reaching into. I've tied this to my vegetable garden fence, about 4 feet off the ground, and 20 feet from the nest. Any other suggestions on how to entice them, or is it just the wrong time since the babies were just born? I also have tree swallows in another bluebird box. Should I check the babies when they hatch too? Sorry for all the questions. Jeff Macdonald
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 08:24:50 -0500 Jeff, jeff.macdonald"at"virtualbuilder.com, Relax and enjoy them. They are just like human babies, tougher than they look. You can safely pick them up at about 5 days when their necks are stronger. Use your fingers as you can tell how much force you are using and not break little bones. Mom and Dad may be concerned but just tell them they are doing a great job and relax as you are just doing you part to help them. I know, your neighbors and family will probably think you are crazy but if you are join the crowd. The birds will recognize the wiggly worms in a flat container. I used an aluminum, pie pan and nailed it to the top of a post in front of the nextbox. Some people use flower pot saucers and sit it on the ground. Bleubirds forage for insects on the ground so they are always looking. One they discover the bounty, they will learn to eat out of closed containers. Yes, I check the tree swallow boxes also. You will find they have "mites" so after you dig around in the nest, check your arms for any little crawling critters. The mites are specie specific so they will not chew on a human but they are creepy, crawly anyway. The worst I ever had was a nest of tree swallow babies that had all died and man, those mites were hungry.
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 10:52:33 -0400 Caren, et al,
Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 08:43:21 -0500 Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas A few interesting points he experimented with was adding a Starling egg/baby to the bluebird nest. The bluebirds short beak prevented it from feeding the Starling correctly to get the food deep enough to trigger the starling to swallow. After 3-4 attempts the bluebird adults removed the food from the still gapping starling and either ate it themselves or fed it to another baby bluebird. The starling exhausted from gapping without food grew weaker and unable to beg for food. He placed dead baby bluebirds in the nest along with the healthy babies and found the female normally "discovered" the dead bird first and removed it sometimes on the very first trip, other times while busily feeding it might take and hour or longer. If the young bird was less than half her weight she simply picked it up and removed it like a fecal sack. At two thirds her body weight she normally lifted it out of the nest cup to just below the entrance hole and removed it on the next trip to the box. She leaned into the hole and pulled it out behind her as she exited. The largest dead baby bird he placed was well over 2/3 the females weight and she flew 18 yards (54 feet) before dropping it. This was the closest to the box any dead baby bird was dropped! A dead baby bird placed on the edge of the nestcup away from the living young was removed immediately. Eggs that were infertile were left in the nestcup along side the young birds. These same eggs when moved up on the lip of the cup in a different spot triggered immediate removal. The bluebirds do not "spear" the eggs as wrens, House Sparrows and cowbirds do they simply grasp the egg in their beak and gently carry the egg out of the box. They sometimes have problems carrying a large egg and will try repeatedly to pick it up sometimes ending up with the egg wedged in a corner away from the nestcup to be left. He thought that the light colored eggs on the nest sides simply triggered them into removing another fecal sack. This experimenting with eggs was done when the young were 6-8 days old. This is a wonderful article and shows that most of our questions have been answered dozens of times in print over the years if we could only find them! He listed 9 different sources (19081949) he quoted from in addition to his work. People have been studying the bluebirds for an awfully long time. KK
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 07:48:24 -0700 Hi! This is my 2nd year of bluebirding and I have 4 boxes up. 3 are used by bluebird and 1 by swallows. I have tried to check each box weekly however we were on vacation last week so I missed a week. When I went to check the boxes yesterday, one box had 6 dead nestlings. They looked to be no more than a week old. I took out the nest and there were a few of what looked like the blowfly larvae but not a lot. Has anyone had much experience with failed nests? The weather has been warm and there is plenty of food around. On a better note, one box has Mama sitting on her 2nd batch of eggs! Beth
Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 01:12:13 -0500 My name is Sheryl Bassi, and I am new to the list. My Parents, who are not on line yet, are the ones raising bluebirds in our family. I hope to use this forum to help them in their efforts. Mom and Dad have been fairly successful with their bluebird boxes. They have 5 (so far) boxes scattered over about 5 acres. This is the third year that they have had birds nest, and have had several pairs raise 2 to 4 broods of babies. (My parents live in Northeast Louisiana) This brings me to my questions. One pair was on was raising it's 3rd brood, with 5 eggs successfully hatched and apparently thriving. I was visiting, and went with Mom to check the nest. The babies were sleeping, but would rouse when nudged. The next morning, my mom called to tell me that all but one of them was gone from the nest, with the remaining one dead in the nest. These nestlings were only a few days old, and certainly far from being ready to fly. There was no sign of predators in the area, nor any sign of the box being disturbed in any way. What could have caused the death of apparently healthy nestlings overnight? The weather was fine, with no sudden changes. Also, will the adults remove the dead nestlings from the nest? Does anyone have any suggestions on how to avoid this in the future? Thanks to all, and We are looking forward to sharing bluebirding experiences with all in the future!
Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 23:31:35 -0400 Haleya Priest Amherst MA Ok - I need to debrief and ask for feedback about what happened - and this will also include how I probably fatally screwed up a maybe not so terrible thing to start with- but hey, this is how we learn........right? Box: Gilberston. 5 babies, 15 days old. All is well up to this point. I look in at 15 days and the nest looks wet and very weird. But all 5 babies there - however, they look very, very raggy. Decide through phone calls not to mess with the nest. That was Thursday evening. Came by today. I see something hanging out of nest, turns out a dead baby, feather all off parts hanging out of box. "at"#$$#. Pull it out and see a little something moving and yes, live something still in box. I open the box and 3 live babies, now even MORE raggy and another dead baby in box. I watch for breath. They are breathing. I pull out dead baby. The box is just totally and thoroughly disgusting and (OK READERS - TAKE A DEEP BREATH) I decide to change them over to new Gilbertson. Which I did, successfully. With a lot of prayers. Hold the hole for a good 10-15 till they calm down. Take hand off and they stay in. Huge rain storm approaching fast. Decide to watch and see if parents return. After 15 -20 minutes, dad returns. Goes to box with food. He is CALM and fine. But after he leaves, guess what happens. One baby pops out then two. #3 stays in. Well, I sure know what preemie fledging is! They both came out and just went straight DOWN. Like jumping off a cliff. "at"$"at"#$. Starting to rain, and in seconds POURING. One little one comes onto pavement and CLEARLY cannot even begin to fly. Not even close. Finally, it just sits and pulls wings in and holds face to sky. I went to pick it up and you know it didnt' even budge. It was so helpless in the puddle of rain. I put it back in the hole and boy, did it learn it's lesson. It sure stayed in. Rain stops, I search for other baby, can hear it but in so much grass can't find. Parents come back and feed the remaining young all nonchalant- babies don't attempt to fly out AT ALL. But, parents are oblivious to other youngster on ground somewhere. I give up after quite a time. Still no babies coming out of hole, so felt all was settled. Questions: what do you think happened to babies to die in two days. Why was one half out hole dead (not caught on anything) what stripped it (neck, too) of feathers. Should I have left dead baby in box and left them all alone, even though they looked so terrible in there. Any feedback is helpful. I swear I am smelling dead meat no matter which way I turn! :-( H
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 08:50:04 -0700
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 15:01:44 -0500 Dear Everyone,
My first Bluebird nestlings are now 13 days old, and as of
yesterday they are thriving! I see Mom Bluebird going in and
out of the box today, bringing food and cleaning house. However,
I know not to open the box to do checks after day 12. So, now
what? Do I just make sure I see parent(s) coming & going...and
assume all is well? I miss looking in on the little three (tried
not to name them, but couldn't help it.....Winkin, Blinkin,
& Nod).
And, one more question...can you tell the sex of the babies
at fledging? Is there any difference in coloration yet, between
males and females? Thanks for any responses.....and Dad Bluebird
was seen going in & out of one of our other nest boxes today........hopefully,
another clutch to watch over soon!
Birdly,
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 16:24:09 -0500 Shelly and Kim,
The 12 day thing is a myth. I have carefully looked up to day
20. In fact I showed 20 day babies to 7 groups on the Saturday
before Father's Day. I used a piece of glass to slide carefully
up inside the side-opening door on a NABS style box. The box
was so full of babies that they would have fallen out without
the glass to hold them in. A piece of pexi-glass would also
work if it was no larger than the doorway.
Carolyn Hall, Bassett, NE
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 17:34:35 -0700 Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif.
Some monitors seem to be able to open the box just about anytime
they please without the babies prefledging. Others, such as
myself, cannot do this without great risk to the family. Every
day the chicks stay in the nest is one day stronger and better
prepared to survive on their own outside the box.
Sliding plexiglas may keep the babies from falling out during
the check, but it won't keep them from flying out of the minutes
after the check. I've had 2 I try to do closed-box monitoring after 12 days. If you are
worried about site after the 12-day period, put down a few mealworms
during the visit. You Some monitors can open the box without risking a prefledge
. . . but I cannot. Each of us has to judge our own capabilities
and adjust his/her techniques to best protect the birds. ...
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 21:50:20 -0500 Carolyn - I would recommend a bit of caution. Not all nests
of young will be this passive, especially if they think the
vibration and disturbance of opening the box is caused by a
climbing predator. As I posted earlier, I have a list of young
that will be 12 days old or older when I go out on the
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 22:54:02 -0700 While I agree with Bluebird Bob--one should be careful with
late nesters. Even *extra* careful is called for. However, I
take a different tack. I continue to monitor even up to the
fledging date. I'm always slow and gentle with them. I keep
up a running (and what I hope is soothing) dialog, and keep
an eye on their demeanor. If they seem nervous and flighty,
I back off. But I have made both counts and (body) inspections
on even the fledge date. I've never had one false fledge on
me yet. As always, use your own good judgment; and know that
YMMV...
I could be that I handle them from egg on, and they're used
to it. I don't know exactly. I've even handled the moms (WEBL
& TRES), and replaced them on their nests without them bolting.
That's not always the case, but I've done it lots of times...
Dusty Bleher
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 10:03:44 -0700 To the List:
In a recent Message, it was stated that "the 12 day rule
is a myth". (I always thought it was called the "14
day rule".) There are many new folks to this List who might
not know about this "rule", so thought I'd take a
few moments to explain it.
For those of you who may be new to the group, the rule is this:
After the 12th (I say 14th) day of life for Bluebird nestlings,
you should discontinue your nestbox checks. The reason is simple;
after this point the nestlings are a bit edgy, and may prematurely
fledge. For a nestling that is capable of flight, this is not
such a big deal. If they can make it to nearest cover, and can
make "short hops" from limb to limb, the parents will
continue to feed them, and within a few days they will reach
the stage where they would have fledged anyway. The danger lies
in prematurely fledging nestlings who have NOT yet developed
the ability to fly. What would YOU do if you had 6 little Bluebirds
jumping, running around the brush, and could not catch them
all? The parents would continue to feed them on the ground,
true, but the dangers from predators would become critical.
Often, even if you can catch them and stuff them back into the
nestbox, they will continue to "bolt", and you'll
have the same problem. It's a good rule - a rule of thumb, that it. Every rule is
made to be broken. Many of us who have experience with handling
birds, and the knowledge of how to handle "older"
nestlings, feel quite comfortable with stretching this rule
when necessary. But how often is it truly necessary to even
DO a check on nestlings after 12-14 days in the first place?
Unless there has been a serious blowfly infestation or other
problems, I really see no reason to break this rule. I certainly
believe that this is NOT the time to show the nestlings to others.
If you are doing so for educational purposes, would it not be
just as educational to point out why you CAN'T disturb the nest?
So I'd respectfully suggest that we encourage others, especially
those without much field experience, to stick to this "rule".
As with any other rule, you'll know when to break it. By that
time, you'll probably be quite capable of handling the pre-fledged
nestlings.
Wendy Guglieri
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 19:25:19 -0700 Wendy;
Very well put. "If you are doing so for educational purposes,
would it not be just as educational to point out why you CAN'T
disturb the nest?" That line says it.
Nicholas
...
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 21:45:02 -0400 I would like to agree with Wendy about the 12-14 day rule about
opening boxes, and would like to emphasize that it is OK to
monitor such boxes for signs of trouble. If any such signs exist
then it is important to find out the problem. Then it may become
necessary to look inside the box. Be very careful doing so.
If it is a top opening box, you are lucky as that would scare
the babies the least. Cover the entrance hole with one hand
to make sure the babies will not jump out of it. Slowly open
the side/top and inspect as lightly as possible. This should
be done quickly especially if no problems are found.
This is one reason I have designed my boxes to open both at
the top and front (not side). These boxes are slightly more
complicated to build, but are very good in that they have good
shady roofs and hardly any rain has leaked in (the past month
was very rainy here, and all my boxes have remained very dry).
Fawzi from MD
...
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 11:30:12 -0400 We have EABL babies about ready to fledge - should be in the
next day or so. I can't wait to see them. It's killed me not
being able to look in their nestbox the last week.
I have a few questions:
Can you tell what sex they are at all?
Also - Do they go back to the nest the first couple of days.
I'm wondering when I should remove the nest after they fly.
Is it possible that mama and Thanks!
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 13:50:25 -0400 I've read that the males show more blue at fledging time.
Nope. ONce out, they don't go back.
I'm wondering Immediately, if you subscribe to the view that nests should
not be left. Is it possible that mama and Yes.
If so, how long after they fly would they She has been known to start a second next even before they
fledge, if there I want to make sure I clean out the old nest in Don't waste any time.
Randy Jones
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 08:47:47
EDT
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 19:07:15 EDT The baby is not making any noise (not that I have noticed,
anyway). Is this normal or indicative of a problem?
That has been my experience here in the south. A chick that
has just hatched has used a lot of energy just to get out of
the egg. Even when they are older they remain quiet, usually
only chirpping for attention when a parent comes to the entrance
with food. I have only once, in three years, gotten them to
raise their heads as if to receive food. Mostly they hide their
faces in the nest or sleep or pretend to sleep for all of the
first 12 or so days of their nestling lives when I might look
in on them. I would say that where I am located if there is
no chirpping by 7 or 8 day old chicks when adults show themselves
at the box to feed the nestlings there may be a problem. I am
trying to recollect here so somebody, if you've got accurate
info, step up to the plate.
AND
. . . tree . . . was filled with Mockingbirds, Blue Jays and
cardinals and the[y] were all screaming. . . It was almost scary.
Does anyone have any ideas what was going on? They left after
about 5 minutes or so.
I've had this happen twice this year. The first time was like
a "Hey, Rube" call at a carnival. All sorts of species
of birds, including bluebirds, flew to a spot along the treeline
of a heavily wooded area that adjoins my back yard. At first
I heard Bluejays. This didn't really get my attention because
jays seem to form a raiding party of maybe ten or more birds
squawking as they move through the woods. My attention was drawn
to the spot because the jays stopped their movement but continued
their squawking. Other birds joined in and flew into the trees
surronding the spot. There were brown thrashers, cardinals,
finches, mockingbirds and even a pair of bluebirds. There may
have been others, they seemed to fly there as if called by specie
and in a particular order of which I was aware at the time,
but can not now recall. I made my way into the trees toward
the spot. There was something in a tree about 15 feet up that
all the other birds had surrounded. I caught a glimpse of it.
All I can report is that it was a bird that was 12 to 14 inches
tall. It departed the area through dense woods. The other birds
then departed and I was left wondering.
The second time, birds were drawn to my neighbors yard. Their
little dog was mouthing a baby bluejay. Squawking adult bluejays
were swooping down upon the dog, trying to hold it at bay as
ocassionally the dog would let the baby go whereupon the baby
would run across the yard flapping its wings. Other birds began
to congregate and sound off too. It was weird, but not as weird
as the first time I witnessed congregating birds. I rescued
the jay. All birds disappeared after that. I ended up the next
morning driving the bird some 20 miles to a wildlife rescue
organization. It begam tp squawk half way there. Thought it
was singing its swan song. It was plenty hungry.
Don't fire any shots at me for the rescue. It was tough for
me to do because two days earlier an adult jay, flying through
my yard, dropped a bluebird fledgling which I retrieved. It
had been pecked. It died in my hand several minutes after I
lifted it from the ground. To make it even more interesting
two days after the jay rescue I helped another jay, a young
one, it had apparently flown into one of the windows of my truck
which I normally keep covered.
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 23:04:31
-0700 I have 4 bluebird boxes on my 3.5
acre property. Last year was my first family of bluebirds. In
one box they nested once and had 4 babies that apparently fledged
without incident. Early this spring, they took up residence
in the same box. Had 5 eggs that hatched, and apparently again
fledged without incident. About 2 weeks after the first clutch
fledged, there was a new nest built. There were 4 eggs laid.
3 hatched on July 9th, and the last one a day later. Everything
has been fine. No apparent problems, until tonight, when I found
2 babies dead in the nest. I had checked them 2 days ago, and
everything was fine. I approached the box today, and detected
an odor. And found 2 of them dead.
This box is in the far corner of
my property and I can't keep a close eye on it all the time.
The dead babies did not appear to have been injured in any way.
I did not notice any "blow-fly larva" on them or in
the nest. This makes me really sad and upset. I was so excited
to have a second clutch of bluebirds. Now I am worried about
the other 2, not knowing what happened to the 2 I found dead
today. I will check them in the morning to see how they have
fared the night.
My husband thought maybe they got
too cold, as we had a couple nights that it was cool. In the
50's overnight. I would think the mom would stay with them to
keep them warm?? If something hasn't happened to the parents,
will they continue to feed the 2 remaining babies? Incidently,
I haven't been able to keep the HOSP out of the other 3 boxes.
Actually I do evict them almost daily, but they don't give up.
I've probably thrown out about 30 or more eggs.
Well, thanks for listening. I'll
let you all know how the other 2 babies are tomorrow.
jodyrose Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 16:11:06 -0400 To: BLUEBIRD-L I used to handle babies in order to count them, but I've stopped
doing that. Now I just jostle them around with a pencil-eraser,
until I've seen each individual. Bruce Burdett, NH Bluebird Conspiracy, Sunapee NH Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 20:52:18 EDT Bob Sitarski's 01-04-21 14:29:19 EDT post reads (in part):
After the cold snap . . . 3 days late, the 5 eggs have hatched
. . . they are NOT THE USUAL LITTLE PINK 'BLOBS'. As a result
of their extra time in the eggs, they are already pretty much
covered with fine feathers.
I have not had much opportunity to observe the affects of cold
snaps or extended incubation periods. So, while Bob's report
of advanced chick development at hatch time makes some sense
to me, is this the advanced development common? If so, does
this necessarily imply that chicks like "Bob's" will
spend less than normal time in the nest before they fledge -
all other things being average?
Tom in NW Florida
Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 07:00:16 EDT Marcia--One other thing you might check for is whether the
back of the box is "whitewashed". Quite often one
or more of the babies will poop on the way out. If it's there,
that would increase the evidence that the babies did fledge.
Good luck! Rhonda Watts Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 11:07:37 -0700 (PDT) Today is day 14 for my 1 bluebird nestling, so I won't be checking
the box any longer. Just curious as to how active a 14 day nestling
should be. I have been able to check the box about every other
day -- sometimes it would be 3 days in between checks -- and
the baby bluebird seems to be growing, and getting feathers.
Although, one book I have says it should be fully feathered
by day 13, and it still looks like "peach fuzz", so
I'm not sure if that is fully feathered. Also, yesterday, I
observed a scab like thing on the wing, which I assume is a
blowfly, but didn't notice any others in the nest, although
the bb was taking up most of the nest, so I could only look
at the peripheral. Each time I've checked on the baby bluebird,
it has been sleeping. I've never seen it's eyes open, or mouth
open. It's always been curled up sleeping. Just wondering if
this is normal behavior for a nestling this age. I check the
box in the early evening around the same time (b/t 6-7 p.m)
The parents are continuing with their monitoring/feeding activity,
so there is nothing unusual there. Just curious...
Kathy Rauschenberg
Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 19:38:45 -0400 Wow! Isn't that a long time to be in the nest? I have 3 nestlings that were hatched about 5/13 and I am being
careful not to go into the box anymore since they are about
13 days old. Should I still be peeking in to see if they are OK? They are so funny, pretending to be dead soldiers when I open
the box. Nancy From: KKaylor445"at"aol.com Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 13:29:25 -0500 I had a BB to hatch Saturday morning. I didn't check the box
yesterday and so today I expected to see more BB babies. However,
there was only the one baby in the box (it has grown some already)
and it was stretched across the other three eggs--that I could
see. Is this normal or should I be concerned? Mom was in the
box at dusk last evening. One other thing, I figured these BB
eggs would not hatch until around the end of this week so I
was surprised to see the baby on Saturday. Is it possible the
eggs are just not ready yet and the one that hatched just couldn't
wait and hatched out too soon? Will the other one hatch out
later? If anyone can help me with these questions, I would appreciate
it!
Dottie, Brown County, Indiana
Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 15:45:45 -0400 Dottie, and others.
You asked about unhatched eggs after one had hatched. Any number
of things are possible. I'd say the most likely is that the
unhatched eggs were infertile for some reason. But it might
be that they were badly chilled and the embryos died. I'd certainly
give them plenty of time to hatch, and not be too hasty about
removing them. They often surprise us. They might be NEITHER
infertile NOR dead. Perhaps they're just slow developers, and
behind 'schedule.'
If your weather is cold, you should open the box no more often
than necessary, and be very quick about it when you do. That's
pretty good advice anyway, no matter what the weather is.
Bruce Burdett, SW NH
Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 23:40:56 EDT Rhonda Watts, Wilton, N.H.
I guess the top question is--would the bluebird parents remove
a dead nestling, and how big a one *can* they remove??
Of my 3 EABL nests currently with nestlings, one hatched all
5, all are well. One hatched 4 of 5 eggs, one nestling disappeared
sometime during the first few days--wet, cold weather, and since
they hatched over 3 days (due to hot weather when the eggs were
laid) I assumed that possibly one of the youngest didn't make
it and the adults removed it.
But I'm puzzled over the last. 4 of 5 eggs hatched, all were
well last week. Last night I checked the box from horseback,
was sure I saw one little grey body under the other 3, and *quite*
a smell emanating from the box. Too late then to do anything
(would have been dark by the time I went back for ladder et.
al.) So I returned this afternoon with ladder, paper bag (nestlings
are about 14-15 days old), and new nest if needed. I picked
out the 3 nestlings, who were amazingly heavy--I'd never touched
them that old! THERE WAS NO BODY OF THE 4TH NESTLING. Nada.
Gone. I felt all around. No smell left, either, except where
somebody apparently got scared poopless when I picked him up!
The nest wasn't messed up (except by me, and one little guy
who pulled up double handfuls of pine needles as he came up)
so I'm doubting anything else got one. Besides, there is a good
guard on the hole--two scraps of wood about 3" apart, which
have kept anything reaching in for many years (it was my very
first BB box!)
So, has anyone else suspected that the parents might remove
a largish dead nestling?? I *know* it was there last night...
Rhonda
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 17:33:45 -0400 Hi Everyone, this is my first time posting, so I hope I do
it right. I had 4 EABB nestlings in one of my boxes. While checking them
I noticed that one was a lot smaller than the others, but each
time I checked the little guy seemed to be doing fine. Anyway
to get to the point, on the 14th day I went out with my dog
and could see only 1 baby in box. His feathers were still not
quite in yet. I offered him food, and he took it which had me
concerned. I decided I had best leave him alone to see if the
parents were actually still taking care of him. I did see the
male later that evening checking the box. When I got up the
next morning, the nestling was dead. My question is, we had
had a lot of rain and I was concerned with it being wet and
really chilly in the forties. Since the other babies were gone,
did he get too cold? Would it have been wrong for me to bring
him in the house where it was warm. Terribly upset about "my babies" in Ohio Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 19:22:37 -0700 What you did was correct in my opinion. Not all eggs that are
laid will hatch and not all birds that hatch will fledge. If
they did, we would be up to our ears in birds and droppings.
So congratulate yourself for providing an environment that encourages
birds to nest and look to the successes, not the losses. Judy Mellin Hi Everyone, this is my first time posting, so I hope I do
it right. Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 00:48:33 -0500 Hi all, I've recently joined the list and have just become
a "landlady" to a family of bluebirds. I noticed the
female first about ten days ago, the male soonafter. What a
brilliant blue - I couldn't believe my eyes. If the weather
had been less rainy and cold we might have seen them sooner
(and I pride myself on my birdwatching abilities! silly me!).
So I guess we must be doing something right - the 3-yr-old
nestbox is about 5' off the ground, close to small trees for
perching, and on the edge of a partly-mown 3/4 acre field. But
my gut feeling is they're in our yard (on the edge of a small
town) because they've been displaced: interstate road construction
is going on about 1/2 mile away; dozens of old oaks were bulldozed
in once open meadows with much disturbance in old, quiet fields.
Online research tuned up this list, for which I'm very grateful.
Everyone's suggestions and observations are most helpful. So
I'm turning to the list with a question: are nestlings normally
quiet? Do they stay asleep when you open the box for inspection?
I checked the box the past two Fridays; couldn't see anything
except some fuzzy brown shapes yesterday. So I checked again
today with a flashlight and pushed the edge of the nest down
a tad and saw at least two nestlings - eyes closed and they
seemed to be breathing, but sound asleep.
We've had some miserable weather the past few weeks; I was
wondering if that had anything to do with their condition. I
see both parents bringing in food, so I assume the babies are
alive... how would the parents react if the babies had died?
Thanks,
Su in SW WI
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 12:06:42 -0400 I'm sorry... I forgot to send this Message in plain text format.
Please forgive the double post!
--- Original Message ---
Hello all,
I'm new to the list and bluebirding (EABL) and have a question.
On June 1, my husband I were monitoring the nestbox we have
in the backyard after observing nest-building around Memorial
Day. There were no eggs in the nest at that time. It had been
very rainy out, and as a result, the wood was swollen with moisture
and the nestbox was very hard to open. This one has a screw
on the bottom of the front panel that must be unscrewed to open
it. Because it was so hard to open even with the screw out,
we decided (stupidly) to leave the screw out after we looked
in the nest for easier monitoring in the future. The box shut
up tight without the screw, so we assumed all would be well.
The box looked fine on June 2 and 3, and we did not attempt
to look inside. On June 4th in the late afternoon we noticed
that the front panel of the box seemed slightly ajar. You guessed
it. The weather finally dried out and the wood contracted, and
the nest box was partially open. We went out immediately to
check on it and felt just terrible when we saw two bluebird
eggs on the ground! One was broken and eaten, and the other
was intact, so we concluded that they must have rolled out of
the nest because the door was slightly ajar, rather than being
removed by a predator, who would surely have eaten both. We
picked the intact egg up ever so gently and placed it back into
the nest. There was one other egg in the nest but to the very
edge near the front door, not in the center of the nest, so
we attempted to move it back a bit towards the center. Apparently
this Mama must have laid all the eggs such that they came out
towards the very edge of the nest, unfortunately facing the
front door which then opened up, allowing two to roll onto the
ground. We felt so bad for leaving that screw out! :-(
Fortunately, incubation began on June 5th or 6th as expected.
We opened the box on June 8 (after seeing Mama fly off with
Papa for a break) and could only see the two eggs, but it is
difficult to see all the way into the nest, so there may have
been one more that we couldn't see.
My question is about the viability of the egg that rolled onto
the ground that we replaced in the nest. It didn't appear to
have any cracks or irregularities from the fall. Is there a
chance it could still be viable since it fell out before incubation
began?
Thanks much! I am so glad to have found this list. I adore
our bluebird pair and am enjoying learning more about them.
I have the Stokes book and have checked out a lot of bluebird
websites, but haven't read anything about this particular situation.
Emily
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 15:45:37 -0700 Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif.
Sue, I didn't see any on-List replies to your question and
don't know if anyone responded to you off-list. I'd venture
that your quiet chicks are well-cared for and content.
Sometimes upon opening the box, very young chicks (eyes not
open) will reach up with open beaks to be fed. Well-fed content
chicks will be warm and sleepy.
If a nestbox has constant cheeping, I interpret that as a sign
of food stress. (*Controversial remedy intentionally omitted.*)
If there is no food stress, the box should be quiet except when
food deliveries are being made by the parents.
Su Mrozinski wrote:
So I'm turning to the list
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 22:41:16 -0500 My sister-in-law in Oregon just called me that she has a baby
Tree Swallow that fell out of the nest. They have the baby in
a box but do not think they can get it back in the nest--it's
too high. What can she do? Dottie, Brown County, Indiana Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 23:47:32 -0500 Thanks for your help! We were able to get two phone#'s of two
rehabbers but they didn't work out--no help there. My sister-in-law
did give it a drop of water. How much should she give it. Also,
it wants food. How much and what. What now? Dottie, Brown County, Indiana Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 07:11:34 -0500 I received this e-mail from my sister-in-law. This is the latest
so far. Thanks for everyone's help in this emergency. Will keep
you posted. Dottie, Brown County, Indiana "Our emergency clinic just called me back and the doctor
said we could go out and find a worm, chop it up finely and
feed it to the little bird with tweezers. Dale is out in the
yard right now looking for one. That little bird is just chirping
it's head off, so the doctor said it must be hungry. In the
morning, we're going to put it out on top of our screen (6 feet
tall) in a box and hope the parents come to it. Then, we'll
find a taller ladder and put it into the nest. Hope this all
goes as planned. Dale just said he found a worm. Now we have
to murder a worm. But the bird has become our "kid"
so we'll do it. I'll let you know what happens in the morning
and I'll also let "Dr. Dan" know. REALLY appreciate
all the help." Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 11:22:02 -0500 Thanks VMS, for your help last night and for getting right
back with us! I was given a rehabber's name who lives here in Brown County
from Phil and Dennis when they came out about my Tree Swallow
mystery. So I called her last night after my sister-in-law called
me about the baby. The rehabber looked up these rehabbers that
live around the Portland, OR area and gave me their phone #'s
and I called my sister-in-law with them right away. My sister-in-law
called them and one said that she shouldn't have been on the
list. The other one just wasn't any help at all. Very disappointing
to say the least. Thank goodness for you people!! We didn't
need that kind of problem at that time! I haven't heard anything yet since the last e-mail; but will
let everyone know as soon as I know. They will do everything
they can for the baby. This is their first experience, too. Again, thanks to all of you for your help. Don't know what
we would have done without you last night. Dottie, Brown County, Indiana Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 12:56:22 -0500 To: Dottie Price yumyumkatts"at"voyager.net Hi! Baby is still alive. I called the emergency veterinary clinic
last night, maybe I told you that. They said we could give it
the earth worm and we did. It ate several bites last night and
a couple more this morning. The vet also gave me the name of
a bird rehabber here in Salem. I called this morning, and she
was really helpful. Her name is Reba Lux. She said the worm
was not the best thing because they can have parasites. She
also said meal worms were good. Dale and I had put the little
guy out in a shoe box tied to the top of our paint ladder first
thing this morning (after I fed him). It's cloudy today though,
only 56, and misting. The parents had shown interest in the
baby but had not come down to it. Reba said to bring it in and
get as much food down it as I could. We decided on a softly
scrambled egg and it did eat a number of bites. I have it in
a box in clean towels and on top of toilet tissue; this little
guy poops up a storm. I have a towel over the box right now
and one of our work lights with a 100 watt bulb above and to
the side of the box to keep it warm. Reba said keep feeding
it till it seems strong, which it already is seeming better,
and then duct tape a light box to the side of the house as close
to the nest as we can get. She said it's highly likely that
the parents will feed it. I'm going out in a while and get some
meal worms for it too. Reba said she always pinches off their
heads before she feeds her babies. She said it isn't a proven
fact, but since meal worms chew into grain and things, she likes
them to be dead before feeding, especially if the baby is weaker.
The sun is suppose to come out this afternoon and I'm hoping
by then "Baby Bird" will be strong and I can put it
out. I am hopeful the parents are going to take over quickly
when it's closer to their nest and chirping. Thanks again for all the help, and especially at such a late
hour for you in Indiana. And special thanks to "Dr. Dan". We'll keep you posted, Hi Again, Cheryl Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 23:40:10 -0500 Hello all - I don't think I have ever seen this question posted before
or read it in any of my books, but: How do baby bluebirds obtain moisture, is it only through the
insects that the adults feed them, or do the parents regurgitate
liquid when needed? Best regards, Bruce Johnson ~ Life Mbr. NABS What wisdom can you find that is greater than kindness? Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 20:34:34 -0400 My husband and I just had the thrill of watching a 16-day-old
female bluebird spend about an hour leaning ever farther out
of the box until she finally tipped all the way out and flew
away! She flew to an area of saplings about 90 feet away followed
by the mother. She landed on the ground however, and the parents
are fluttering and hovering over her. They seem to be upset.
Are they concerned that she is on the ground? Are they just
surprised that she is out of the box? The parents have spent
an hour going between the larger trees and the saplings, almost
as if trying to coax the fledgling into the trees. The fledglings
instinct seems to be to cower on the ground.
The other three nestlings are still in the box. Will they follow
the first one out quickly?
Forgive my questions as this is probably old hat to most list
members, but this is the first time I've actally witnessed a
fledgin and I am curious.
Thanks in advance for your responses.
Pam in Abingdon, Harford County, Maryland
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 23:22:39 -0500 When baby birds are starving emergency food can be had from
the canned cat food found at most stores. In a pinch dried cat
food can be used IF it has been soaked in warm water and left
to fully soften for about 15 minutes. When using dried cat food
be sure to soften a new batch every time you need to feed as
it can spoil and have enough bacteria in it to kill young birds.
Train the young birds to open their mouths when you whistle.
Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 19:12:21 -0500 My friend, Jenny, just called me concerned about her baby BB's.
She had two two hatch Sunday and another one to hatch probably
Monday. When she looked in the box on Sunday, there was an egg
that was cracked on the bottom. She thinks this is the third
BB baby that hatched. (Originally the box had five BB eggs)
She has not seen the Mom since Sunday. The Dad, who wasn't
around for awhile previously, came back and has been on and
in the box but she has not seen him feed the babies.
She looked in the box and the babies did not move. I asked
her to go back out and pick one up and see if it looked injured.
She did this and it was lifeless. It didn't move, open it's
mouth or anything. She didn't see any injuries. However, she
is not for absolutely sure it is dead but she says it looks
like it is.
What shall we do?? Need some advice soon. She is anxious and
waiting to hear from me.
Thanks! Dottie, Brown County, Indiana
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 20:33:12 -0400 ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "dottie price" yumyumkatts"at"voyager.net Hi Dottie:
Please tell your friend to feel the hatchlings with the back
of her hand to test for warmth. Hold one in cupped hand and
breathe warm breath on it, see if it moves in about a minute.
If the Mother has been missing since Sun. they have had no warmth
and have probably succumbed to hypothermia. This is probably
why the male has not been feeding. Also, note if shells have
been removed, that would be another clue as to how long they
have been unattended.
Please let us know results.
Betty Nichols, Middletown, MD
My friend, Jenny, just called me concerned about her baby BB's.
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 21:58:28 -0500 -----Original Message-----
From: Elizabeth Nichols birdlady"at"netstorm.net ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "dottie price" yumyumkatts"at"voyager.net
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 21:58:48 -0500 -----Original Message-----
From: Elizabeth Nichols birdlady"at"netstorm.net ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "dottie price" yumyumkatts"at"voyager.net
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 22:19:15 -0500 I'm back, Betty. I had to drive slow coming home as there is
a lot of fog in these old hills and hollows tonight due to the
rain we had that cooled things off. Also, there is a full moon
tonight. Wouldn't you know it.
Thanks to your excellent advice, my friend Jenny, got the BB
babies to move some by putting them in her hand and breathing
on them as you instructed us to do. She then put them in a shoe
box with tissue and took them into the house.
I called her with the phone #'s of three rehabbers near us.
She was able to get one on the phone that, fortunately, did
not live very far from her. I was able to find these rehabbers
thanks to the "How to Find A Wildlife Rehabber" that
was sent to the List. I saved it--and sure glad I did. And thanks!!
to whomever sent it out.
We took the BB Babies to the rehabber and she said she would
put them in the incubator. Jenny is to call her tomorrow to
find out how they are.
I really appreciate your quick response, Betty. In a situation
like this, a minute seems like an hour when you are waiting
for an answer. Also, thanks again for your excellent advice.
I sent all these communications out to the List (I hope you
don't mind) since maybe this situation will help someone else
out there.
It seems like I have been in a crash learning mode for the
last few weeks. First I had the ants, then the Tree Swallow
mystery, then the baby swallow emergency in Oregon and now the
almost dead BB babies. However, I have learned so much. I've
saved all the communications from these events and I am going
to print them off and put them in a binder for future reference.
These actual cases are a great learning tool.
Again thanks, Betty, for all your help. I will let you know
the outcome. I am sure hoping they all will make it.
Dottie, Brown County, Indiana
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 08:20:29 -0500 Hi Betty and all,
I forwarded your post to Jenny. She was kinda downhearted last
evening but we talked about it and she was ok when I left.
I don't know how you learned all this without the wonderful
help of people like you and the Bluebird Clubs and Bluebird
List.
The babies were so tiny! I think Jenny did really good by picking
them up and breathing on them. It would be a scary thing to
do since they are so awfully little.
I was wondering if one could make an incubator and learn how
to use it.
Can hardly wait to find out how the BB babies are doing. She
was going to call the Rehabber about 10am our time. She didn't
want to call too early as they were having a cookout party and
fireworks when we dropped off the babies. The Rehabber lives
on a lake called Lake LaSalle just off the main road to our
resort town of Nashville. I didn't even know the lake was back
there until last evening. We are lucky to have her so close
to us.
I will let you know how the babies are doing when I hear from
Jenny.
Thanks again! Dottie, Brown County, Indiana
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 09:46:18 -0400 Dottie, and others,
Way back when I raised up pheasant, duck, and chicken hatchlings,
I used to make a very rudimentary incubator based on the heat
from light bulbs. The hatchlings liked it just fine.
I'm sure there are plans available for contraptions like that.
They're easy to make and simple to use. Maybe your local rehab
people could suggest something.
Bruce Burdett, NH Bluebird Conspiracy, Sunapee NH
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 14:02:42 -0500 Hi Betty and all,
I have some sad news and some good news about the baby BB's.
Unfortunately, the Rehabber could not save two of the babies.
She thought they were already dead last night but put them in
the incubator just to make sure. But they were dead.
However, one of the babies is still living. The Rehabber said
it didn't look real good but has a fighting chance. This was
the last one to hatch so I'm hoping it can make it.
We are getting ready to start our Fourth of July so Happy Fourth
to all of you.
Will let you know when I find out about the remaining baby.
Dottie, Brown County, Indiana
Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 20:21:52 EDT Sherry Hunter, Byron Center, MI
Hi Emily,
I was lucky enough to get some photos of my nesting bluebirds
last year and have a couple of them on my webpage. I am just
a beginner in taking bird photos so the quality is not the best.
But they might give you an idea of what to look for. The fledgings
have spotted and stripped breasts similar to robin juveniles
as opposed to the red throat and breast of the adult.
Also their wing colors have white spots on them and are a duller
blue color than the adults.
My webpage is: www.angelfire.com/amiga/habitat/home.html
Scroll to : Backyard photos page and also my Recent Photos
page (year 2000 photo)
Hope this helps you.
*******************************************************************************************************************************************
I've been checking the web for fledgling photos but can't find
enough to determine if what I saw was a young fledgling or an
older juvenile. Can anyone point out some differences I could
look for as fledglings age, in case I am lucky enough to see
the little one again?
Thanks!
Emily
Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 20:51:42 -0400 Bluebirds fledged, but where do they stay once they first fly???In
trees, where??Also at night when the babies are in their house
where do the adults Go????? Had wrens fledge, they were in a
bush and never to be seen again!!! Assume its the same with
bluebirds though i know the mother continues feeding them. Question
being where do all birds sleep at night??? and do they leave
their young alone??? AND do they know where the young go off
to??
In Bethel CT
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