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Nestbox Monitoring Frequency (Part 3)Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 10:59:26 -0700 (PDT) Are there exceptions to the 'hands off' approach to nestbox monitorig?.... of coarse. Several of you sent me E-mails discussing both wet nests and blowfly infestation. Yesterday we had hail, thunderstorms and gusts as high as 40 mi./hr. I did take a walk around the trail to check for any possible damage to nestboxes. I have never had a nest get wet. I make sure that the nestboxes are in very good shape well before the nesting season begins. I use 6 inch roof overhangs to protect the nestbox proper and entrance hole from sun and rain. I do not face entrance holes directly west or south. As for blowfly infestation I yield to one of the experts of the Universe, Dr. Terry Whitworth. Please go to the following link for questions and answers concerning blowflies and nest inspection; http://members.aol.com/birdblowfly/page0.htm I have sent Terry several nests for analysis. Even though I haven't sent Terry a nest for two years (he now requests nests from certain areas and certain bird species) I continue to check every nest for blowfly. Usually 3-4 days after the birds fledge, I inspect the nest mat'l for the football shaped larvae. If the larvae is present, I usually empty the whole nest box contents in a large clear freezer bag. I poke a couple small holes in it too let air in it. In a couple days, the larvae turn into flies and are easy to count in the clear bag. After doing this inspection of the used nest multiple times, I have determined that I do not have a blowfly problem. The blowfly website says the following: "For the average birder, it's probably not necessary unless you have evidence of heavy infestations. Even in heavily infested nests, nestlings are rarely killed by blowfly larvae. Disturbing nestlings and parents by looking through their nest for larvae will cost birds energy, which may equal the energy used to replace blood lost to larvae. Also, you are disturbing some nests that are not infested." I have read that if you find 10 or more blowflies per nestling then you have a problem. The most that I have found on my trail was 7 per nestling in a Carolina Chickadee nest. The most infested EABL nest that I have found was 3 per fledgling but I would estimate that 80% of the EABL nests on my Trails have NO BLOWFLIES. ... Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 09:22:22 -0500 Just a reminder for people whose bluebirds are in the egg-laying stage. The egg is generally laid in the morning, so it's best to monitor later in the day. That way you do not interrupt the process. I witnessed an actual egg-laying this morning--barn swallow, not bluebird, but the process is the same. Swallows nest every year on my back porch where I can observe them as much as I want from the comfort of my couch! I do climb up and check the nest once or twice during a nesting, but most of the time my observations are made from the ground. (I also make a lot of concessions like not going in and out constantly, and not turning on the porch light at night when the female is on the nest, which could cause her to leave the nest and not return until morning.) Anyway, I checked with a mirror yesterday and saw that the nest was beautifully lined with white feathers, just the way tree swallows do. This morning while drinking my coffee I saw a bird sitting on the nest. I knew better than to disturb her, and warned my husband as well, and she finally got up after about 10-15 minutes and flew away. I immediately got up to verify that she had laid an egg, and sure enough, there it was! As I said the process took about 10-15 minutes, since the egg is fairly large when you compare it to the size of the mother's body, and disturbing her at this time would not have been a good idea. With bluebirds we can't see inside the box to know that the process is occurring, so monitoring later in the day means the egg can be laid without us unintentionally interrupting. Kate Oschwald From: The2girdlers"at"aol.com Hey all, Thanks...We are learning a lot from this list From: hubertrap"at"webtv.net (Joe Huber) Hi girdlers, watch for female to be out of box then look in. This will not
disturb the little ones. The parents may dive bomb you but this is normal and
they won't touch you, it is all bluff. A warm afternoon may be best time to
find female out of nest feeding. Some people look in box every day without
disturbing birds, but that isn't necessary. Once per week is enough unless
there is something special going on you are checking on. Finding the female
sitting Charter member NABS, Charter member OBS, Life member OBS Joe Huber hubertrap"at"webtv.net ... Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 11:57:24 -050 You can go back at another time to check, or watch for her to leave the nest, since she will do so to feed. You will have 12-14 days from the start of incubation before they start hatching so you have time to count the eggs. Be careful to warn the mother when you approach the nestbox, to give her time to leave if she wants to. If she is startled she can slam the eggs together when leaving in too much of a hurry. Kate Oschwald From: "Dusty Bleher" dusty"at"fsinc.com Good morning all; I had a bummer of a monitoring day, yesterday! Found all 5 hatchlings in one of my best boxes, dead. No obvious cause or reason for their demise was apparent. Both parents were in attendance and made their usual complaint passes around my head as I opened the box. It was clear that they had aged little (if at all) from my last check the previous Saturday. They were such a lively and healthy bunch last week, that we'd intended to return with the camera to get that "perfect" nest picture. The way the box is situated, soft light naturally falls on them when it's opened. They were of the age where they were all "beak and attention"--all 5 heads were up, mouths open, and vigorously peeping for food. Too bad. An opportunity lost... In contrast to that, a box of Tree Swallows, that we thought were lost, were fledging as we watched. As some of the more "long time" readers on this list know, even though I court our Western Bluebirds, I get mostly TRES. Actually, truth-be-told, I kinda like them. The brooding hens are fearless, and need to be picked up in order to count the eggs. So, I've kinda adopted the habit of not bothering them if they're brooding. I mean after all, who cares if they laid 4 eggs or 12? They either hatch or they don't. I figure that if I can't count "young'ens" and subtract the number of eggs left, then I don't have any business trying to do this... The way my boxes are mounted, I can't easily see into many of them; but I can easily reach in and "finger" the contents. Eggs are easily counted by gentle touch. If momma's on 'em, I usually just close up and leave her alone. How can I tell if she's brooding? Why I can feel her head and back with my finger. Well on one box, I had marked as unknown number of eggs--because someone was always on the nest. But this time, the calendar and my ears told me that I should have hatchlings. Time to disturb 'em a bit more, give momma the boot, and get a firm count. Unfortunately, when I opened the box I found a dead adult sort of half over the young. The bird was too far gone for me to be able to sex it, but my best guess was that it was the male. However, because it was so light (desiccated), it was clear that it had been dead for quite some time. Consequently we removed the entire nest for a thorough check over and nose count. Besides the dead adult, we found one dead hatchling, and another with a few slight wounds on his back (looked like scratches from a sibling). The dead one was pretty small (as compared to the survivors), and looked like it had gotten trapped or pinned under the dead adult. A check of the nest eliminated parasites, so we scraped out the box and reinstalled the nest with the 5 survivors. With one adult caring for 5 hungry hatchlings, we feared that they didn't have much chance. However, surprise! Surprise! We spent some time, last week, observing the box before I opened it. We noted that there were a least 2 adults and 1 (possibly more) juveniles "working" the nest. This early in the year they'd had to have been last years juveniles. This was something I'd not noted previously. At any rate, a few minutes of watching yesterday, showed considerable traffic to the box, but no real food delivery. So I opened the box, and found 3 ready to fledge young still inside. Good! I quickly closed it, and we stepped back. After several more visits by adults (which went inside), we were surprised to see one of the fledglings pop out and take to the air. Now I've witnessed hundreds of fledgings over the years, but I've never seen one like this... The youngster flew and fluttered looking much like a drunken sailor. But, he did not struggle to the nearest tree and land to get his breath. In a few moments he seemed to get his "sea legs" and started to swoop and loop like a pro. I watched it for the better part of 5 minutes, and never saw it land or take a break. Last I saw it was over a kilometer away flying in a cloud of other swallows... So, as I alluded to in the subject line; according to my experiences, I'm going to alter my inspection methods a bit. I formed my current monitoring habits around my schedule, what seemed right, and after listening to the collective "wisdom" of this list. I changed my original more hands-on and frequent monitoring to one of a more "hands-off" approach. That's out! I'm going back to my twice a week visits. If the hen's on the nest, she'll get disturbed and will just have to deal with it. I used to take the young out, once, when they were around 5-10 days or so, to check them over carefully for parasites or injuries. Now I'm going to check them all each time I get to them. Hopefully, ratcheting up the attention level will ratchet up the survival level too... I guess I'll just have to wait and see... Later all, From: "Lawrence Herbert" lherbert"at"4state.com Pam wrote to ask why it may not be a good idea to check nest sites daily. 1) Predators can easily pick up our scent and be directed to the nest. 2) Cold and wet weather can flush the incubating/brooding birds to be away for a prolonged amount of time and disrupt the nesting cycle. 3) No further information can be gained from checking daily unless you have a specific research ongoing, such as, specific incubation time, nestling weight gain, or feather development. Glad you asked. Good birding to all, Larry H., Joplin MO. Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 17:20:54 -0400 I am new at this. The BB box I'm monitoring is at my church, so I don't monitor it daily. We observed 5 eggs that hatched on May 12. We haven't looked inside the box since May 19. I went to the property on Friday, June 7 and didn't see any activity of fledglings in the area. The male BB was around. He would sit on the gutters, or land on the grass to hunt. I didn't want to disturb the box at that time because I didn't want to drive the male away. Is it safe to assume the young birds have fledged by now? Is it safe to look inside the box to see if a second nest is being constructed, or, if not, to clean out the first nest? Thanks. Jim Krist From: hubertrap"at"webtv.net (Joe Huber) Hi Jim, It would be a good idea to look in the box now.That will not scare the male away, he will sit near by and watch you. If the young have fledged go ahead and clean out the old nest. I doubt if a new nest is started yet. The male must have intentions of using this box again and that is why he is still in the area. Joe Huber ... From: "Bruce Burdett" blueburd"at"srnet.com Jim, and others, I monitor my houses (72), on the average, every week or ten days. So don't worry about not getting to your site at the Meetinghouse every day.
(I think you know who'll be looking out for them while you're not there.) From: "judymellin" judymellin"at"netzero.net Monitoring is such a hard thing to "get" people to do! I am the bird monitor on a 600 acre natural areas restoration site and we have lots of Boy Scouts, school groups, etc., coming out to help with our activities. Some come for weeks, some for months and some come once and are never seen or heard from again. This is not such a problem for our restoration efforts because we just pick up where we leave off from week to week. Building and erecting nestboxes, though, seems like a very different activity to me. We have nine boxes and might expand our trail in the future and checking those boxes is part of my weekly activity of monitoring the whole site for all species. I see the problem of erecting boxes and then abandoning them as a serious problem and this is what unfortunately happens so many times with new monitors. Kids set up boxes as Eagle Scout projects and then abandon them when they get their badge. Folks hang an handmade/gift box in the yard and then forget about it. Someone said that, if one or two out of a hundred stick with it, that is great. But what happens with the boxes that the other 98 erect and then leave? Maybe our objective should be to get new folks to monitor our existing trails to get an idea of the time and effort involved. Then, when we've identified the one or two that will stick with it, we can encourage those folks to set up a new trail of their own or expand an existing trail and assign them to the new section. That way, if they should leave it for whatever reason, we can pick it up. I would think that the idea would be to try to eliminate unmonitored boxes. Encouraging folks to erect boxes before a true commitment is made is, in my opinion, asking for trouble. Judy Mellin Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 09:13:48 -0600 Some things to remember when monitoring: While egg-laying is going on, try to avoid monitoring in the early morning. This is the normal egg-laying time. The process takes about 15 minutes, so if a female leaves the nest she will have to lay that egg somewhere else. Once egg-laying is complete, early morning monitoring is not a problem, but now you need to avoid monitoring too close to sunset. If the female is away from the nest when the sun goes down, she will roost somewhere else and not be there all night to keep eggs or newly hatched babies at the proper temperature. These are two reasons to monitor at least weekly so you know what is happening
in your nestboxes. If you are unsure, monitoring during the middle of the day
will be the safest course. Kate Arnold Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 07:07:59 -0700 (PDT) On my trail, frequently when I open a box for a nest check, the EABL stays on the eggs. I check frequently enough so that I usually find a time when the bird is not on the eggs, to get a count. However, I've heard of monitors lifting the bird up to count the eggs and then putting her back on the nest. I've never tried it. Does anyone do this or anything else for the sake of getting a count of eggs versus chicks? Tony Berg, Williamsburg, VA From: "emcooper" emcooper"at"bayou.com I never, never lift one to count the eggs. I usually try to monitor my nestboxes right after lunch as most of them seem to be away from the nest at that time looking for food. Even though I walk or ride my trail every day, I don't open the nestbox every day. I will take a look at the predator guard, grease, etc. and move on. We are terribly infested with fire ants in my part of the country. I keep check on that situation. Evelyn Cooper Louisiana Bayou Bluebird Society Bluebirds along the bayous.....where we lend a helping hand! ... Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 08:51:20 -0500 "My" birds always leave the nest when I monitor. If they did not, I would not disturb them. I heard of one very experienced monitor who lifted a female--some nest material caught in her legs and two eggs fell out and broke! You can always count later, and a count is certainly not worth breaking an egg or injuring a baby! Kate Arnold Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 10:44:30 -0400 I agree. IMHO, collecting data is important, but not to the point of traumatizing the bird. I have occasionally had the mama remain on the nest when I opened the box. I just closed the box again and assumed that later, when the babies had hatched, mama would leave the nest so she could feed the babies. Then I'd be able to look inside the nest and figure out in retrospect how many eggs she had been sitting on. I realize that it's theoretically possible that an egg could have been lost without leaving any evidence, but to me the chances of this are remote enough that it's not worth upsetting mama. Rebecca J. From: "Zimmerman, Bet" I have a small bluebird trail (10 boxes). I have been checking the boxes every 2-3 days. Is this too frequent? Things seem to change so quickly and I have HOSP problems. However, 2 days ago I had a pair of bluebirds building a nest (no eggs), but today there are chickadees in the nest. Am I scaring the birds away? I approach the boxes quietly, tap them lightly, look in quickly and get out. When I last checked that bluebird nest they were in the vicinity but not on the nest. Bet of Connecticut From: "Bruce Burdett" blueburd"at"tds.net Bet, et al, But I know that some people, even the Mother Superior of Mazzzchusetts bluebirders, Haleya Priest, monitor much more frequently, and insist that the frequent visits cause no harm. You may recall, though, that all my houses are from ½-mile to 5 or 6 miles from my home. How frequently Haleya would monitor at those distances we may never know. I don't bother to tap on the box, whistle tunes, call out names, and so forth, as some folks do. I just quietly open the box. Sometimes the mother bird stays put and regards me quizzically; sometimes she doesn't. Occasionally she will hear me coming and fly out, but she's always back on her eggs again as soon as I'm out of earshot. A Tree Swallow will almost ALWAYS stay put during monitoring, and I even sometimes lift her gently off the nest in my hand to count the eggs, or let my granddaughter hold her for a moment. We then put her gently back and close up. Sometimes Tree Swallows do not fly out because they are, in fact, dead. Why these admirable swallows suffer these frequent mortalities is not known for certain, but theories abound. Do they die of "old age," perhaps? I don't like to think so because I just turned 80 on Tuesday, and I don't like to be reminded of such lugubrious matters. Bruce Burdett, SW NH P.S.: Grandsons are not as much into holding birds as granddaughters are, it seems. ... From: hubertrap"at"webtv.net (Joe Huber) Hi Bet, No you are not scarring the birds away. Many things happen at nest boxes that don't make sense. Once per week is often enough to monitor boxes,but like you say there is a HOSP problem which may require more attention to keep under control. When birds start a nest and must leave due to bad weather this gives others a chance to take over. I'm sure you have been having foul weather like every one in the N E. Another box in the area of Chickadee nest may get your BLuebirds back. I've always said no open box no Bluebirds. You can't change what has taken place but you can offer another nest box. Joe Huber, Venice, Fl. Charter member NABS, Charter member OBS, Life member OBS Joe Huber ... Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 18:00:54 -0400 Haleya Priest Amherst MA Even worse was as I drove up to one of my sites I could hear the parents very distressed. Turns out the box was completely open and all 3 chicks were gone! There was tall grass around the box and I carefully checked - and sure enough all 3 chicks were nestled in the tall grass a.o.k. The parents would continue to feed them on the ground (if they could get to them), but the problem would be predators. Had I waited another few days (or longer) before checking them, chances are good they might have gotten eaten by something. This is where frequent monitoring is a life saver! :-) H ... > From: Crystal Hill From: Evelyn Cooper
From: Haleya
Priest From: Dottie
Roseboom Everyday monitoring can be done WITHOUT
the monitor interfering with the nest, touching the nestlings, etc. Everyday
observations catches problems that a once-a-week check might miss, such as
yesterday there were 3 eggs present and today there are none. The
once-a-week monitor might assume that the female had not started
laying eggs. Also, toward fledging time,
snakes or cats might take the young. With a daily check, the monitor
realizes that the young are gone, but not because they had fledged. And
since unexpected emergencies do occur, the weekly monitoring appt might be
postponed, creating an even longer observation gap. Personally,
I would love to have a webcam on all nestboxes. I think that some
people claiming that they never have predator problems would find out otherwise. Any
good nature show on PBS or "Discovery" illustrates that many of our animal
assumptions are proven wrong by the camera. Realistically
speaking, we do the best that we can with the time that we have. I
appreciate the info & help! from this list. Dottie
Roseboom From: Daniel Sparks [mailto:b4bluebirds"at"yahoo.com] From: Evelyn Cooper In my experience, I've never had a Bluebird to abandon a box. I find them to be very tolerant to people. I conduct tours on my trail without a single problem. In the case of other species, such as Carolina Chickadees, I find they are somewhat more sensitive and I monitor them with caution. My reason for daily monitoring at this point of nesting is because of wasp on the trail. If had not done battle with the wasp every day, I would have 13 wasp nests instead of 13 bluebird nests. I won! Evelyn Cooper, Delhi, LA From: Bruce Burdett Crystal, et al, I monitor my boxes (72) every week or 10 days, on average, more often if I suspect a problem, less often if I get lazy. I don't like to disturb them any more often than I have to. Bruce Burdett, SW NH From: Janet Pesaturo [mailto:janetpesaturo"at"comcast.net] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 10:26 AM Subject: for newcomers: a minimalist approach to monitoring There are obviously people new to bluebirding on this list, people looking for the do's and the don't's. As the predominant view voiced on this list appears to be a highly intervening approach to monitoring, I'd like to make it clear that there are those among us who have a much less intervening approach. We've had some interesting discussion about how to protect the lives of individual birds, such as removing unhatched eggs, warming or cooling nestboxes in times of extreme weather, supplementing their food supply when natural sources are scarce, the trapping of competing house sparrows, and even a direct recommendation to kill house sparrows. I hope people are not left believing that if you do not do these things, you are not taking adequate responsibility for the birds nesting in your boxes. While opinions vary as to whether those sorts of interventions should or should not be made, it is clear that they are not necessary. Native birds can and do fledge from nestboxes, even if you do not make any of those interventions. They might not fledge from ALL boxes, but they will fledge from some. When you are told that you should or should not do this or that, keep in mind that very little of this has been systematically studied, so what you are hearing is merely an opinion. If you are inclined towards a less intervening approach, you needn't feel you are doing less good for the birds. You might be doing more good. None of the species that typically nest in our nestboxes are endangered, so heroic measures to protect them are not necessary, and may not be beneficial in the long-run. Extremes of weather, shortage of food, parasites, disease, predators, and competitors are all nature's ways of weeding out those less fit to survive. All of those challenges ensure that only the healthiest individuals survive to pass on their genes. If you take heroic measures to protect the lives of individual birds, you might achieve some impressive numbers of fledglings. But if you allow nature to cull out the weaker ones, those fledging from your boxes are probably those most likely to survive the challenges of tomorrow. Those are the birds you want in the gene pool. Monitoring nestboxes can be a very emotional experience. Over the past few weeks, we've had some wonderful examples of the poetry, music, photography, and accounts of special memories, all inspired by the bluebird. We've read about meaningful friendships that have revolved around bluebirding. Clearly, this bird is, for many people, an important symbol of beauty, peace, harmony, and love. One worth killing for, it seems. It can be heart breaking to experience the death of even one bird, espeically if it is one that has become a symbol of lofty ideals. This can compel even the hardest hearted among us to do everything possible to protect the next bird from whatever threatens it. It can fuel hatred towards a competing species. But is a broken heart an appropriate basis for decisions about interfering with wildlife? Something to think about. As we all know, the issue of lethal vs. nonlethal control of house sparrows and starlings has sparked some heated debate. As there has recently been a lot of talk on this list about trapping and disposing of sparrows, it might appear that this is what we all think should be done. This is not true. This is not my practice, and I know there are many other monitors who use nonlethal methods of dealing with sparrows. Mine is the simple, low tech strategy of pulling their nests. While this has been said to cause house sparrows to kill a native birds to gain usage of a nearby box, this is certainly not always the case. Does it happen most of the time? Hardly ever? We don't know, as it has not been systematically studied. Last year on my trail, house sparrows attempted to nest in 8 of the 20 boxes. I persistently pulled the nests. There was only one death of a native bird that was most likely caused by a house sparrow. Six of those 8 boxes were paired, by the way, 15-30 feet apart. Native birds did eventually fledge from some of those 8, and from nearby nestboxes as well. Some people might say that it is not appropriate to allow a non-native bird to kill a native bird, if it is within your power to prevent it, and that killing the house sparrow is in some way restoring the intentions of nature. That is one view. I disagree with it. Like them or not, house sparrows are here to stay, and the native population will be better able to cope with them, if you let the birds fight some of their own battles, allowing natural selection to take its course. Be wary of people who tell you that house sparrows will wreak havoc on your trail if you do not kill them. Carefully question them, and you might find that many of these people began trapping and killing after experiencing just one or a few deaths of native birds, before they could really estimate how often this occurs. Others have their nestboxes in areas where the house sparrow population is extremely high. Obviously, the closer your boxes are to typical house sparrow hangouts, the more interference you will have. Recognize that by putting up nestboxes in such areas, you are essentially drawing house sparrows into competition with native birds. They would not conflict so much if the chosen method of conservation here was land preservation, rather than providing nestboxes. House sparrows did not evolve as cavity nesters. This is an adaptation they made as they associated themselves with man and began nesting in man-made structures. They only occasionally nest in tree cavities, and when they do, the tree is almost always very close to a building (Summers-Smith, 1963). So, the conflict between bluebird and house sparrow is essentially man-made. Is this merely a technicallity, or does it influence the rightness of wrongness of killing them? Something worth pondering. In fact, the impact of house sparrows on native cavity nesting birds is really not clear, as this is yet another issue that has not been well studied. Many birders and scientists since the late 1800's have offered their opinions on the matter, but much of this has been based on casual observation, not well-designed studies. The larger starling has perhaps been blamed even more than the house sparrow for having a devastating impact on native birds. While some studies have demonstrated fierce competition between starlings and native cavity nesters, few have demonstrated negative consequences of this competition. Interestingly, Walter Koehler's statistical study (Conservation Biology, 2003) of the impact of starlings on 27 species of native cavity nesters showed that starlings have had little adverse impact on cavity nesting birds with which they are known to interfere. Evidently, most native birds have been able to effectively adapt to starling competition. It appears, from that study, that the impact of starlings has been exaggerated by casual observers. It would be fascinating to see a similar study of house sparrows. The humanness of killing these birds is yet another issue. A fuzzy one, at that. Most people would not consider it cruel to weed out an exotic invasive plant, for example, but many more would consider it inhumane to exterminate domestic cats and dogs, which are also non-native, and often blamed for doing damage to native wildlife. So where do you draw the line? Is it humane to kill exotic birds? Sometimes? Always? How much evidence of adverse impact is needed? More ideas worth thinking about. I'll stop here. I hope I've inspired a few newcomers to think about all of this. Best of luck with your monitoring. Janet Pesaturo Bolton, MA From: Mary Beth Roen [mailto:mbroen"at"hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 12:54 PM RE: Monitoring Frequency Crystal, I monitor my trail once a week. It seems to work just fine for me, to intercept problems that may come up. Some people also monitor after a rain storm to be sure no nests are wet, or as needed for problems. Mary Roen, River Falls, WI From: judymellin [mailto:judymellin"at"netzero.net] I think what Mary Beth says is what should be done. Since many of us perceive our jobs as monitors, not affecters, once a week is plenty to observe what is happening. It is that time of year to remind people that interfering in any way with nesting is forbidden by federal law, even if the monitor perceives that he or she is "fixing a problem." If you are not a licensed rehabber, then you can arrested/fined for touching eggs, nestlings, etc., in an active nest. Judy Mellin From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com] I think the frequency of monitoring is up to the individual. I fledged 85 babies out of 115 eggs last year and have done that well for 6 years, so you cannot argue with my success. My advice to all newbies is to buy "The Bluebird Monitor's Guide" where monitoring activities are FULLY discussed and they also are discussed on "The Best Of Bluebird List" on The Reference Guide in the years past. You can go there and find where monitoring activities were discussed and get answers. Evelyn Cooper Delhi, LA From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com] I read something just yesterday in Bird Watchers Guide that really stuck with me. It said: "In attracting bluebirds away from cryptic natural cavities to conspicuous nestboxes, we are in a sense setting them up for predation. The incubating female, potential mother to dozens of offspring, might slip unnoticed into a tree hole, but less secretly to a box out in an open field. She is at risk, and her death impacts the breeding potential of local population". It goes on to encourage putting up nestboxes, but stresses the importance of monitoring and putting up the right kind of units for our birds. In one of "Bluebird" Journal of the North American Bluebird Society issues, it shows how to make a cardboard box to put in the nest before the nest is build and the whole cardboard nest and all can be slid out for inspection. Evelyn Cooper Delhi,LA From: keith miller [mailto:ksec"at"spii.net]
I think way too much is made over monitoring. They're birds for Gods sake. Birds can and have quite well for millions of years without you and me monitoring them every week. If you must monitor do it as often as you like and don't worry about what others feel is the perfect plan. They have control issues and they want to control everyone around them. Its instinctive in some people the same as herding is to Border Collies. From: L Violett [mailto:lviolett"at"earthlink.net] There are alternatives to placing nestboxes out in the middle of an open field. Hanging box trails, for example. From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com]
Linda, I think we in our neck of the woods have already said many times that we cannot do that. A snake would be out on that limb in a heartbeat to get the eggs or babies. In a place where it would work, it would be great. Evelyn Cooper Delhi, LA From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com] I am going to reply to this again and then it is bedtime. Millions of years, even not until less than a hundred years ago did we have man made cavities. That does shed quite a different light on things. Many birds make it without even weekly monitoring, but our goal is to monitor regularly so as to try to have a higher fledging rate per clutch. I don't intend to set out nestboxes for predator bait. I want to see them make into this world. To commit to be a good monitor is the only way to achieve that. Otherwise, you will be helping the HOSP and Starling population. Evelyn Cooper Delhi, LA From: Dottie Roseboom [mailto:rosedot"at"mtco.com] Evelyn, Right on. Not everything works for everybody all the time. That's why it's good to get varied input. I hope that no one takes offense at a polite difference of opinion. And sometimes I even disagree with myself :-) My point on monitoring wasn't just concern over whether the bluebirds could survive without our help, but more whether we had correct assumptions on predator control, box size & height, etc. If we are spending time & money on bluebird trails (and advising others!), let's make sure that what we THINK looks right, really is beneficial to bluebirds. I think that a good way to do that is with lots of observation. And what is observed in one climatic area may NOT work in another, but at least our suggestions are based on active fieldwork, not an armchair daydream. I admire & respect everyone's hard work on bluebird trails. Dottie Roseboom Peoria IL (central) From:
John Schuster [mailto:wildwingco"at"earthlink.net] Dear Friends, We just pick one day out of the week to monitor our nest boxes and we do this for the very same reason that Dan Sparks mentions below. Yes, I have a couple of Bluebird nest boxes that I monitor more often, but the general rule is once a week for the majority and I educated my customers to do the same. Presently I can tell you that all of our nesting boxes that house Bluebirds have nests in them (no eggs in Sonoma County, CA), and on the Bluebird trails in the Napa Valley the same was reported earlier this week, but some have eggs. Looks like a great cavity nesting season in my opinion. You can tell that the nesting season is in full bloom when this topic comes up and the "sparks start to fly" (not Dan) on Bluebird L. I look forward to reading all the posts on Bluebird L early in the morning before hitting the vineyards. Loads of fun, the collective knowledge is very educational, and it's a great way to start the day. Cheers and as always... Happy Bluebird Trails To You, John Schuster From:
Haleya Priest [mailto:mablue"at"gis.net] Keith, I loved your response. Well said! It isn't clear who you might have been speaking too about control issues, but the truth is this: whether you monitor frequently or very little it is ALL about control. It is just a matter of how you use your control! Don't anyone think less monitoring is about less control.... Just a different way to use control. So, I am with Keith - - do what feels right and forget what others say. I know that I am in the Australian Shepard camp when it comes to monitoring. I've NEVER ever had a EABL abandon because of my monitoring. I love being totally engaged with any animals and nature in my life. What is life for if I can't be totally engaged???? I don't want to miss a moment. Not one. However, with a change in my life last year I could not monitor as often so instead of monitoring all boxes less, I monitored the heck out of the high risk boxes, and RARELY monitored a few - I mean once or twice during the nesting cycle – these were boxes with no HOSP around – and they did just fine. So for newbies, it might take a while to figure out your own style and what works for you and you might go from Australian Shepard mode to Bassett hound mode - or reverse. All is fine. Judy is right – if you don't monitor as often you might lose more chicks, but the fact that you have a box up at all is a gift in and of itself. And Evelyn is right that NABS suggests it is better to have no box up than a box with a HOSP nesting in it. So I believe we are all in the same camp about this and we all agree that some monitoring is necessary – especially where there are HOSP concerned. I know for me I have story after story of what tragic event I avoided by monitoring often. But then again, life would have gone on had I not. I choose to have as many EABLs and other native cavity nesters fledge as possible. :-) H From: Tina Phillips [mailto:cbp6"at"cornell.edu] Janet, Thank you for your well-thought out and diplomatic response. Your input is very valuable to newcomers who may need guidance about nest-box monitoring. Letting people know that there is no one correct way to monitor nest boxes is important. Many factors can impact how often one monitors, including location, species, number of boxes monitored, and access to boxes. This discussion has raised many valid points about monitoring. One point not mentioned, or maybe that I overlooked, has to do with monitoring boxes for the sake of research. Many questions remain unanswered because, as Janet correctly states, there are few systematic studies to draw upon. Much of what we know about interactions such as the effect of House Sparrows on cavity-nesting birds is anecdotal. More data are needed to increase the body of knowledge that already exists and to answer questions such as those posed below. Data that are collected and analyzed provide a form of evidence that can be used to inform management decisions, both at a local level on nest-box trails and on a larger, conservation/management level. Programs such as The Birdhouse Network (TBN), rely on participants observations for research and data gathering. Without nest-box monitors checking boxes and telling us what's happening inside, we can't investigate, for example, what environmental factors may effect nesting success of native cavity-nesting birds. Nor can we build upon life history theory, i.e, theory which can help explain variation in reproductive strategies via evolutionary processes such as natural selection. The work that Dr. Caren Cooper, a researcher at the Lab of Orntihology is doing with bluebird incubation rhythms, is a good example of studies that examine life history theory. The data collected for TBN are used for the continued study and conservation of cavity-nesting birds. That said, TBN recommends that for the purpose of data collection, nest checks should occur every three to four days. Waiting a week between nest checks could result in being unable to accurately record important nesting events such as first egg date, hatching, etc. Now that spring is here officially, let's get to the business of checking boxes! Tina Phillips The Birdhouse Network Cornell Lab of Ornithology From: Fawzi
P. Emad [mailto:femad"at"comcast.net] a minimalist approach to monitoring For those interested in dealing with House Sparrows (HOSP) without killing any, please take a moment to see two methods I use. Details are on this address: http://home.comcast.net/~femad/More%20pages/HOSP.htm These methods are in addition to the usual methods such as removing HOSP nests, and using nestboxes which HOSP don't like. Best advice: Whenever possible, build nestboxes in locations where HOSPs are not present! Fawzi Emad in Laytonsville, Maryland femad"AT"comcast.net From: Phil Berry [mailto:mrtony8"at"mchsi.com]
Hey Fawzi, Why so easy on them? They are hawk food the minute you trim their wings. I just take mine for a car ride to the raptor center, where they are given lessons in staying alive. I empty my Bolt trap into my ground trap. After it fills up they all go bye bye. This way everyone wins!!! Oh, except for the HOSP. Phil Berry From: Fawzi P. Emad [mailto:femad"at"comcast.net] No, they are not hawk food. I see them for a long time after they are trimmed, sometimes after several months. This method is being presented for those who do not want to kill the House Sparrows. Those who want to kill them can continue to do so. I am not trying to change anyone's mind. There is room for different points of view --in my way of thinking... Fawzi Emad in Laytonsville, Maryland femad"AT"comcast.net From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com] I think NABS pretty well outlines what our monitoring responsibilites are. If we do not follow them, we are NOT taking adequate responsibility for the man made cavities that we put up. On this fact sheet from NABS that I am copying from it states: "Why Monitor?" "The function of monitoring is to keep house sparrows from using bluebird boxes, to check on the general health and safety of the bluebirds, and to allow detailed record keeping of their progress." I personally know about some LBBS members that had House Sparrow problems right from the beginning and the HOSP's were taking over and running the Bluebirds away from the nestboxes and trails. If they had not interveened and used the Huber trap, there would have been no Bluebirds. Our Mission is to support Bluebirds and NATIVE cavity nesting birds. We have to use whatever means it takes to make sure that happens. To just sit back and let the HOSP take over and do nothing, is raising them and as you can read in our mission statement, that is not our purpose. These members did succeed by getting rid of the HOSP and their Bluebirds successfully nested. Even though our daily data is not recorded anywhere, I (along with many monitors) for keep daily records of everything that goes on at my nestboxes and I have since 2000 when I joined the Transcontinental Bluebird Trail. Many of us are speaking from first hand experience as we have kept a journal of what has happened at our trails. The data required to be collected back in prior years to the Transcontinental Bluebird Trail required more monitoring than once weekly to be accurate. It was then that I discovered and was made aware of how lots of things can happen in a less than a weeks time that could have been prevented. I still contend that these man made nestboxes are not at all like natural cavities and Bluebirds are more vunerable to predation and weather factors and we ARE responsible. I have been on Bluebird-L for four years now, and I have read more heartbreaking stories about HOSP's troubles on the trails that I have successful nestings of HOSP on the trail along with the Bluebirds. My objective, along with NABS, is to have the most successful fledging rate per nestbox. At every presentation I give, I STRESS what usually happens to unmonitored nestboxes. At the urging of LBBS member, Judge Jay McCallum, Farmerville, LA, I wrote an article entitled "The Harsh Realities Of Unmonitored Nestboxes" and you can read it in our Vol. 7 newsletter on our site. Haleya and I both stated in our posts that each person can do it their own way, we just expressed how we do it as one person indicated we were wrong for doing it more than once weekly. The highlight of the 2003 nesting season for me was seeing 3 miles of Cooper Rd. lined with Bluebirds on the power-lines in late September and early October. Six years ago when I first started my trail, you did not see that. I know that I am making a difference. I am thankful that the area around me also has lots of natural cavities. Sorry for this "brief", but most of these newbies that are asking questions seem to be ones that are interested in monitoring as much as possible and from my experience (and others on here) it is not detrimental to the birds. Evelyn Cooper Delhi, LA rom: judymellin [mailto:judymellin"at"netzero.net] We can and do hear every extreme that can occur with monitoring. We heard from a person who states that she has a higher hatching rate because she monitors frequently. I can refute that by saying that I have monitored once a week for 11 years and 2004 was the first year there have ever been unhatched eggs on my trail- and there were two in one nesting. Someone else mentioned that frequent monitoring lets you know if eggs were there one day and gone the next. While that is true, what will you do with that information? Does that mean that you would remove the nest and consider it a failed nesting attempt? I would prefer not knowing and leaving the nest in the assumption that egg laying has not commenced. People have said that there is value to knowing when the birds will fledge because of the risk of predation close to this time. I agree that there is value but, to me, the value is knowing when NOT to monitor so as not to cause premature fledging. I can compute an approximate date from knowing when I saw the first egg. Those of us who take the minimalist approach should be helping new folks to choose their monitoring methods, based on presenting both sides of the story. I totally support the idea that, if boxes are not going to monitored, they should be removed because of the problems that they can cause. However, for those that have neither the time nor the inclination to monitor every day or more, I would like them to know that whatever effort they can give is great. If you put up boxes and have a problem with house sparrows/starlings that you cannot cope with, I would suggest taking the boxes down. There are at least thousands of boxes that have been erected over the years and then abandoned. This is a possible cause of so many non-native species in areas now. If your trail is distant from your home, as it is for many of us, go when you can. I monitor a 600 acre natural areas restoration site and have identified 188 species that use our site so bluebirds are only a very small part of what I do but I have made a commitment to maintain and monitor the trail. I guess what many of us are trying to say is that you can erect boxes and be a good landlord by monitoring, keeping good data and maintaining the trail. Many of us believe that this can be done once a week- but we'll let Bruce Burdett get away with every 10 days or so because, after all, he's 80 years young! Judy Mellin NE IL. From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com] Judy, in the second paragraph, you mentioned that frequent monitoring lets you know if eggs were there and gone the next and what do you do with that information. That is exactly what happened to me last nesting season. I had the proper Ron Kingston guards on and knew it was not a snake because I had grease on the pole and it would have indicated if a snake got past it. I had never had any problem ever before with larger birds getting eggs, but due to the recent farming of corn, crows had started coming in and I feel they were the culprit. I put a 1" wooden guard over the hole and it stopped the eggs from disappearing. One egg was dropped between the nest and door and I won't go into details as to how I preserved its life. The pair came back and laid another clutch and they hatched and fledged successfully. Evelyn Cooper Delhi,LA P.S. I did not remove the nest and they were back laying in a few days. So, to answer that question you posed about what do you do with that information if eggs are there one day and gone the next, it let me know exactly what I should get on the ball and do. Evelyn From: Bruce Burdett [mailto:blueburd"at"tds.net] From: judymellin [mailto:judymellin"at"netzero.net] Evelyn- No, I did not mention that I do anything with that information because I am not the one who gathers it in that manner. I was quoting another poster who said she used this information. My point was that, if I find an empty nest, I don't feel the need to know if there were ever eggs in it. I always have empty boxes on my trail- on purpose- so I just go with the flow and see what happens. Even if I were to perceive a problem, I would leave everything alone and let nature take its course. I know that you feel differently and that's fine. I just feel it's important that folks who decide to put up boxes or who agree to monitor an existing trail know that it can be done- and be done very effectively- without the amount of time that many spend but that many others cannot give to this activity. Judy Mellin NE IL. From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com] You wrote: "Someone else mentioned that frequent monitoring lets you know if eggs were there one day and gone the next. While that is true, what will you do with that information?" You made a statement of "if the eggs were there one day and gone the next" and I replied that it happened to me and how it helped me to solve a predator problem. This statement above that you made is what I addressed. I do monitor more than once weekly and will continue to do so because I believe it DOES help me have a higher fledgling rate. Whoever said that, I am in complete agreement. Think it was Haleya. Eleven years without an infertile egg is quite remarkable! Evelyn Cooper Delhi, LA From: L Violett [mailto:lviolett"at"earthlink.net] Judy states, "Even if I were to perceive a problem, I would leave everything alone and let nature take its course." Well, there aren't too many startup or cleanup trails that could survive Judy's statistician (observe and record) approach; and most of us will intervene on behalf of the birds' welfare. If a monitor has a new trail, or an inherited problem trail, then frequent monitoring will be necessary along with quick hands-on action and nestbox/guard adaptations. After the bugs have been worked out and everything is running smoothly from year to year, the monitor can opt to monitor less frequently. During the last few years, I have acquired problem sites from other monitors. Nature was taking its courses, about to graduate . . . and the bluebirds had their masters (HOSP). From: Daniel Sparks [mailto:b4bluebirds"at"yahoo.com]
Bruce, Evelyn, and all, Whether one monitors everyday, 3 times a week, or once a week....can we all agree on one point? The greater the frequency of monitoring will result in a greater chance of abandonment?? Dan Sparks Nashville, IN From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com] Yes, Linda, you are very correct. In a previous post, I pointed out that I monitored every day so far this year to do battle with the wasp. I got that battle won and have not had to go every day. But I still go more than once a week because I think the benefits pay off. It has in my situation. And those of us that want to and can do it should not be told it is the wrong way like it came across to us in the very beginning of this thread (and it was not you that said it) The newbies should know all of this and to be very careful monitoring. I always try to pick a time when I know the female is not on the nest. Not everyone can do this with their trails, but many of us can and should. Evelyn Cooper Delhi, LA From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com] No, I do not agree, I have never had a nest abandoned for monitoring. I do not feel there is a greater chance of abandonment from frequent monitoring. We have been told to try to check the nests when the female is out feeding. You can usually figure that out very easily. I find most are out in the early afternoon and the nests are without the female. Evelyn Cooper Delhi,LA From: Dottie Roseboom [mailto:rosedot"at"mtco.com]
Evelyn & All, Don't blame Haleya for this quote. I made it. IMO, I care more about fixing the problem of disappearing eggs rather than "data collecting". (Although being a past researcher, I believe that some of us are too lax in keeping records) When I began watching bluebirds, a friend told me the story of her 3 disappearing eggs. She immediately checked the greased pole, but saw no signs of disturbance. While checking for broken shells and/or blue feathers, she noticed a small shoe imprint in mud. After inquiring at the closest house, she discovered that 2 small boys had double-dared each other to throw some eggs at their teacher's mailbox. Guess where they got the eggs? My friend raised that box and another nearby box higher than the boys' heads. She also installed screws so that only a screwdriver could open the box. While doing this, she observed the parents in a tree. She left the nest & they returned to egg-laying. I believe that this intervention could have possibly saved these future eggs from 2 little boys not realizing the consequences of their actions. In my area, if eggs or fledglings are gone, it's a big sign saying "Get the Van Ert trap!!!" As these sparrows will continue to harass or kill any more parents/eggs/fledglings in that box. If I didn't intervene, it would just be more carnage. I know from my own experience & from others around here. So, if eggs are disappearing and you don't mind intervening: Find out what happened & prevent it from re-occurring! Watch the area long enough to see if the parents are still alive & willing to continue egg-laying. If so, leave the nest! Best of luck to everyone. Dottie Roseboom Peoria IL (central) NABS member From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com]
Haleya wrote: I know for me I have story after story of what tragic event I > avoided by monitoring often. But then again, life would have gone on > had I not. I choose to have as many EABLs and other native cavity > nesters fledge as possible. :-) H I am not blaming Haleya, I am applauding her! Yes, there was more than one that sees benefits from monitoring often!! Glad you have joined our ranks! I enjoy the record keeping and enjoy reading the past years records that I have. Evelyn Cooper Delhi, LA From: MJShearer I don't think it necessarily follows that frequency of monitoring increases incidents of abandonment. I usually monitor bluebirds (in my yard) several times weekly until all the eggs are laid, weekly thereafter, and I've never had an active nest abandoned due to monitoring. I don't handle eggs or chicks, and I never open a box after the 12th day of incubation until all the chicks have fledged. I monitor the golf course trail weekly. Of the five nestboxes in my yard, three are currently occupied by different species -- chickadee, brown-headed nuthatch, and EABL. I don't monitor chickadees and nuthatches as closely (i.e. open the box) as I do bluebirds, unless there appears to be a problem in the nestbox. The birds literally "tell" me to look in the box when there's a problem. I have had nests abandoned due to predators, pests (wasps and ants), house wrens (several times!), infertile eggs, and vandalism. (A large raccoon can tear down a predator guard!) Last year a bluebird built over her entire first clutch of 5 eggs, laid 4 more eggs that hatched, and 4 chicks fledged successfully. This occurred in the nestbox in my front yard. Had I not been watching it closely, I could have cleaned the old nest from the box, never knowing that 5 unhatched eggs lay hidden intact in the nesting material below the top nest. So I have the following questions: If nestboxes are unmonitored, how do you know what birds actually used the boxes? How can you know if house wrens destroyed the eggs and nest of another cavity nester? How can you know that you had no unhatched eggs? How can you record with any degree of accuracy how many birds fledged from a trail? And last, but most important, what exactly do we consider "monitoring"? Is it the close observation and recording of nesting activity from the beginning of nest building to fledging of the young birds, or is it simply counting the nestboxes that were occupied during a nesting season and guessing what went on in those nestboxes? Monitoring frequency varies with the time, interest, and number of boxes one has to monitor. Certainly the person with a small trail and a few nestboxes to monitor in the neighborhood can afford to monitor more closely that someone who maintains several large trails that can number in the hundreds and be spread over many miles. It seems to me we're comparing apples and oranges here.... MJ Mary Jane Shearer; Tucker, GA (N/E Atlanta) From: Bruce Burdett BLUEBIRD-L, In 12 years I have only had one instance when an entire clutch of eggs was abandoned by the parent birds. That was back around 1992 when I put up my first single house. Bluebirds took it immediately, built a nest, and produced 5 eggs. Then the Tree Swallows arrived, - dozens of them, - and simply harrassed (pestered) the Bluebirds clean out of the neighborhood. The eggs were abandoned and I never saw the Bluebirds again that summer. One irony is that the swallows, having scared off the Bluebirds, never used the house themselves. I've been pairing ever since, with good success, and no more Tree Swallow competition. Bruce Burdett SW NH From: Betty Faye Lawton "monitorpurpose" Transitive verb from Merriam -Webster Dictionary, electronic version, c. 1994. OK folks we all have our own idea of the "special purpose" of the monitoring ... and we could discuss this 'til the cows come home and never agree! As each person has an individual situation. I don't even have ONE nestbox yet, but when I do, I will probably take all of your suggestions into consideration then do the the way I think will be most beneficial to my nestbox...if I get any EABLs, that is. So lets just put the ideas out there without any recriminations... love the way y'all are so dedicated to the EABLs and wish y'all all success this Spring! Betty Faye in Laconia, NH From: Evelyn Cooper In my Websters used as a verb it says "to listen or watch in order to check up on". You many not like what you consider as recriminations, but the record does have to be set straight. When one person plain out states that "this is the way it should be done" it has to be refuted to point out other views. In the beginning of this thread,one post from an individual stated to all the newbies that it should be done once a week. It was my hope that all newbies could read the different ways of doing this and choose what suits them best and it does sound like that is what you have done. I hope you get some Bluebirds! Evelyn Cooper ... From: Haleya Priest [mailto:mablue"at"gis.net] From: Bruce Burdett [mailto:blueburd"at"tds.net] Evelyn, Dan, Linda, Judy, et al, One of the reasons that I monitor only once every week or ten days is that ALL my houses (72) are between 1/2 mile and six miles from our house. If I tried to check my 36 paired sites as often as some of you do, I'd spend most of my waking hours driving around town and hiking in to my houses. (Gas went up to $1.77 yesterday.) On the other hand, if my houses were in or near our yard I might be more inclined to monitor more often IF I thought that there was a special need to. In 12 years of Bluebirding, I have never seen a single Bluebird in our yard. I envy you folks whose houses are close at hand. That's a luxury I've never had. I've kept a pair of houses in our yard for many years, but all we ever got was Chickadees. Bruce Burdett SW NH From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com] My trail is 2 1/2 miles long. It is accessible by vehicle, fourwheeler or I can use my two legs. We that monitor more frequently are not saying it is a must, but did want to give the newbies an option to look at and let them know what our experiences are. LBBS has one member that has 1,110 nestboxes. He can only monitor once a month. Most do not have predator guards. Snake predation got about half of eggs and babies this year. He sees a lot of sights that are not pretty. Now, to be frank, that is not my style of monitoring. Many do it, and if they can handle it, that is fine. It has just come across in the beginning of some posts to the newbies that there was only one way to do it, once a week and some of us know differently. That is why I am still harping on it. A lot of the newbies have backyard nestboxes. Evelyn Cooper Delhi,LA From: Bruce Burdett [mailto:blueburd"at"tds.net] Evelyn, et al, I hope I have never given anyone the impression that I think "once-a-week" is the only way, or even the best way. I simply meant to explain, in answer to someone's question, that this is the way I do it, and what MY reasons are in MY situation. If my situation were different, probably my methods would be different. One of my several reason is that ALL my houses are on other people's property, and I don't want to make a nuisance of myself with very frequent monitoring. Bruce Burdett, SW NH From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com] It was not you that said it. I don't consider that I am making a nuisance of myself by monitoring frequently. I know for sure I have solved predator problems quickly and saved clutches and babies by doing it. As you can see, there are several others that agree. Evelyn Cooper Delhi, LA Member NABS Louisiana Bayou Bluebird Society Affiliate of NABS www.labayoubluebirdsociety.org From: Maynard R Sumner [mailto:m-r-sumner"at"juno.com] Some Bluebirds like you to check the box. At one of my boxes at my house the male will come let me know when a new egg has been added to the nest or a new baby is in the nest. All locations are not the same. What is working for you keep on doing till it is not working anymore. Maynard Sumner Flint, MI From: Paula [mailto:PaulaZ"at"columbus.rr.com] Evelyn, Excellent post in my opinion. Reading through some of recent posts, I understand Janet's practice of ripping out the nests is a passive control measure used by many. It does at least keep the HOSP from reproducing. My sister employs this approach. She hasn't had any Bluebirds successfully nest yet, but has had 2 pairs start a nest and been chased off by the HOSP. Maybe she'll get lucky. I'm just very glad she hasn't had any eggs, babies, or adults harmed yet. I would love to see a systematic study of trails that uses HOSP trapping vs. trails that use HOSP nest pulling vs. trails that use HOSP eggs rendered nonviable (refrigeration or piercing) vs. control trail - no intervention at all. Anything like this ever done to anyone's knowledge? Is it being done now? As far as frequency of monitoring, I monitor once a week on my trail. To take it to another extreme, I often monitor my two nestboxes at home every day when EABL are nesting. They have never been chased off by such frequent monitoring and they keep coming back. I do use common sense though. If the female is on the nest in the morning laying an egg, I don't go near her nest. I also try to wait until she leaves her box to take a break before I open it up to take a quick peek, and that is generally all it is - a quick peek. I stay away from the box after day 13 to prevent premature fledging. If I see a major problem though, I do intervene if I feel that intervention will give them a better chance. Now some will disagree with this approach, but I really enjoy doing it and I have not lost any eggs or birds using this practice at home. With vigilant HOSP trapping and box monitoring, I think any homeowner can have great success with helping to raise one or two broods of Bluebirds per year, even in HOSP prone areas. That is my personal experience. I think one of the biggest challenges as a monitor is trying to do too much myself. I can only reasonably monitor so many boxes, so my goal is to get as many people interested in monitoring Bluebird trails (or just a couple of boxes in their yard) as possible and teaching them what I know through experience and from fact sheets from NABS and other knowledgable organizations. Paula Z Powell (Central) Ohio From: Paula [mailto:PaulaZ"at"columbus.rr.com] I have to say that my experience is the same as Evelyn's. I have never had an EABL abandon a nest due to monitoring, frequent or otherwise. As I mention in another post, the two boxes at my house are monitored almost every day. I have had EABL abandon only one nest due to HOSP throwing out their eggs. Friends and family have had nests abandoned due to lack of monitoring when HOSP chased the EABL off or killed them. Has any one on list ever had nest abandoned due to their monitoring efforts? Paula Z Powell (Central) Ohio From: Daniel Sparks [mailto:b4bluebirds"at"yahoo.com] Haleya, I regret to say that we have had bluebirds abandon their nests because of our micro-management or excessive intervention. I wish you continued success. We are beginning our 10th year and monitor ~500 nestboxes...we learn alot about bluebirding every year, remembering that bluebirds are wild animals. Dan Sparks Brown County Bluebird Society Nashville, IN From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com] Having 500 nestboxes, it would take quite a few people to monitor to do it often. Just speculating, it seems that we that have fewer nestboxes would be paying more visits per box than you. Even though Bluebirds are wild animals, one of their beloved characteristics is how they interact with humans and are so tolerant of them. What sort of percentage or number have you had abandoned due to excessive monitoring and how can you be sure that was the reason? Evelyn Cooper Delhi, LA From: Maynard R Sumner, m-r-sumner"at"juno.com From: ccharleneanchor"at"msn.com From: Evelyn Cooper Well, Charlene, my Bluebirds do their work building and laying eggs in the morning. I say they like to take the afternoon off. :<) I think it is not wise especially when they are laying to check them in the morning as it could scare the female off and interupt her. I find early afternoon is best. Also, very late in the afternoon, nearer dark, could cause a female to leave the nest that she has brooding or incubating and stay for longer than she needed to, so I would not monitor very late. Evelyn Cooper Delhi, LA From: Haleya Priest, mablue"at"gis.net From: Blubabies"at"aol.com [mailto:Blubabies"at"aol.com] From: JOHN & BARBARA SIBIO [mailto:jsibio"at"comcast.net] From: judymellin [mailto:judymellin"at"netzero.net] I think it is EXTREMELY important that people understand that EVERYTHING you are advocating here is in direct violation of federal law, unless the person performing these tasks is a licensed rehabber. Taking the nests out of the box, handling eggs, touching hatchlings to "inspect" them is illegal. The idea that "this is a full time job" does an amazing disservice to those who are monitoring very successful trials while holding down a "real" job, raising a family, volunteering at schools and churches and generally benefiting society. These birds are a small part of nature and all of nature needs our help. As someone so accurately pointed out in a recent Message, bluebirds are not threatened or endangered. Here is a link to the Audubon Watchlist and you won't find bluebirds on it. http://audubon2.org/webapp/watchlist/viewWatchlist.jsp Yes, bluebirds are beautiful and can become addictive. But people can certainly go overboard. Judy Mellin NE IL. From: Evelyn Cooper
[mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com] Well, I tell you I am amazed that for years we have been able to discuss our monitoring activities and it is written in the Archives of the Bluebird Reference Guide, page after page, year after year. Everytime we have any kind of discussion even the most minute thing, Judy comes in to whip us in line. I guess we should just put up the boxes and peep. Just go to the Reference Guide and learn how to do these things that have been discussed before on here. Evelyn Cooper Delhi, LA mmmJust because they are not considered endangered anymore, does not mean that we should not be good monitors and do what is best for the bluebirds. ... Your advocation of peeping in the nestbox is illegal too. So, I wonder who is going over-board? LBBS has many full time working people that have conquered the House Sparrow and many other predators. I personally gave them the number to call for the trap. They gave me their stories of how they made it possible for their Bluebirds to come back and nest. It IS a time consuming job and people better think long and hard before going too far out on a limb with too many and not doing a GOOD job. In a lot of the books I have read, many days of severe, cold weather that made food unavailable for Bluebirds was one of the biggest factors in their decline. The experts say that will happen again. So, we just better not get over confident about them. Evelyn Cooper Delhi, LA Member NABS Louisiana Bayou Bluebird Society Affiliate of NABS www.labayoubluebirdsociety.org From: Kenny Kleinpeter [mailto:kpkmajk"at"cox.net] There's not a court in this land (except maybe, the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals) that would even consider convicting the tireless accomplishments of active monitors. In fact, you would have a much better chance of convicting someone who just puts up a nestbox of "cruelty to animals." Non-interference is what I call the abandoned boxes full of house sparrows and starlings. Non-interference does little but get these birds tortured and killed. Maybe the licensing focus should be on monitors, not rehabbers. If I bring a martin or bluebird to some of the rehabbers I know, it is sure to end up as raptor food. They know little or nothing about caring for these species. The Migratory Bird Treaty Act of 1918 did not intend for us to ignore wildlife conservation by "burying our heads in the sand." I've spoken to many state and federal wildlife officials about my "extreme interference" on behalf of secondary cavity nesters and they have all been completely supportive. Kenny Kleinpeter Baton Rouge, LA Member, LBBS From: judymellin [mailto:judymellin"at"netzero.net] How wrong this statement is. Last year, in the Chicago area, a woman was arrested for temporarily moving goose eggs to try to protect them while some work was being done outside her place of business. Someone turned her in. If people are concerned enough about goose eggs, imagine how they would feel about the same thing being done to other birds. As Cornell has reminded us time and time again, we are not to post activities like this to the listserv. It is a public list and our posts are available through google.com threads and probably those of other search engines. This listserv could have to be shut down if complaints are lodged that Cornell is supporting illegal activities. And, yes, they are illegal. Judy Mellin NE IL. From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com]
Looks to me like the list would have been shut down several years ago according to what we can all read in the "Best Of Bluebird" in the Bluebird Reference Guide Archives, since back in 99 of our monitoring activities. You are just ignoring that. Judy, you are talking about a woman removing a nest built on something, not a person monitoring a trail and nestboxes. Do you see any bluebirders in jail since the early years of placing nestboxes? Look in "The Bluebird Monitor's Guide" on page 77 and read what Susan Lawrence the USFWS National Coordinator for Migatory Bird Permits says. Technically all our monitoring activities (including yours) is unlawful. She says however, that we are looked upon as "Good Samaritans" by the law. I have talked to my wildlife people and hey, one of their wives cut out my picture in the Monroe News Star about LBBS and mailed it to me! Ymmm. Evelyn Cooper Delhi, LA From: Kenny Kleinpeter [mailto:kpkmajk"at"cox.net]
According to the Chicago Tribune, this Palatine, Illinois woman was charged after it was determined that she had instructed her employees to chase away a nesting pair of Canada geese and to discard their eggs. After an investigation, she returned the eggs to the nest. Police said that this wasn't a crime they go out looking for but because she was uncooperative, they charged her. They just wanted to get the eggs back. Charges were later dropped when the woman's business was allowed to retroactively obtain a permit from the Illinois Department of Natural Resources to move the eggs. So, first of all, this woman was not convicted of anything and it is wrong to use this example to discredit my statement, which I continue to stand by. Further, comparing the loving and compassionate activities of bluebird managers to a case where birds are chased away and eggs thrown in the garbage is entirely unfair at best. Using scare tactics like "direct violation of federal law" to keep wonder people from saving bluebirds does a disservice to the whole recovery effort. ...It appears that Cornell does not have a problem with nest replacement as it is listed as a solution to parasite infestation in their answer to Question #12: http://birds.cornell.edu/birdhouse/getting_started/tbnfaqs.html#Q12 Kenny Kleinpeter Baton Rouge, LA From:
Phil Berry [mailto:mrtony8"at"mchsi.com] we go through this every year. if you remember last year i attempted to pacify this nay sayer by contacting federal and state officials to see just what they would say about us. NO ONE --- I REPEAT---NO ONE would state that what we do is against ANY state or federal law. PERIOD. I have a state of Florida permit to remove nests and count eggs and do anything else i need to do. I wear it around my neck on a chain whenever I am out on the trail, just for the person like the one on this list who vows to jail all of us. How difficult was it to get???? Well, I also printed one out for my wife, and another for my Amazon parrot, Lolita. Official state seal and all. Nothing we do is illegal in anyone's book. Well, one person's book, maybe. ....And I can furnish all correspondence with US Fish and Wildlife if necessary. They all laughed at me when I told them "someone" thought we were involved in illegal activities. How in the world is one supposed to monitor a trail, or even one box, without opening it? And if you open it, what if something in it is endangering 5 young birds. Would you close the box and say "well, too bad, but it would be illegal for me to help them out." If you answer no to that question, you have violated your own code of conduct. And that would make you a hypocrite. If you answer yes, it makes you someone without a soul. Phil Berry From: John Schuster [mailto:wildwingco"at"earthlink.net] Wow! This "Going to extremes" topic is burning up the net and it seems to happen every year. God Bless Judy, as she tends to throw the same bucket of water on the campfire ever year and I guess she feels obligated to do so to protect the web site. Furthermore, I hear all about the most over turned court in the land (the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals) out here is California, so I can understand Larry's point to a tee. However, lets get back to square one can we. This is supposed to be a conservation effort by private citizens who share a common goal, and that goal is the preservation of our native cavity nesting birds and that in it's self is sufficient for most. This site is here to help folks that need it, not to frighten folks away with treats of legal repercussions. So for the new folks on the list, please read as much as you can about cavity nesters, use common sense when working with same and if you have question, please just ask as we are here to help you. Cheers and as always... Happy Bluebird Trails To You, John Schuster From: MJShearer [mailto:eshearer"at"comcast.net]
Another excellent
post, Kenny! You're absolutely correct. This is "much ado about nothing"! I don't believe anyone
is going to be arrested for cleaning out a nestbox. We can't get serious cases
tried, much less frivolous ones to prosecute people who are monitoring nesting
sites that they provide for native cavity nesters. I'm sure we all know that
we can't collect eggs, nests, keep wild birds as pets, or interfere with the
nesting process once a nest cup is formed. That law was designed to *protect*
birds from people who were killing or capturing them for personal pleasure
or to profit from the trade and sale of native birds. It says nothing about "letting
nature take its course," or removing old nests from nestboxes. The intent of
the law was to prevent people from taking nests and eggs to sell or for display
in their homes; to prevent people from killing birds for their attractive feathers;
to prevent people from hunting insect-eating, endangered songbirds to extinction;
etc. It says nothing about survival of the fittest, natural selection, or any
other term I've read in defense of not monitoring. I've discussed monitoring
nestboxes with people on both the state and federal levels, and *not one* of
them ever suggested that what I do violates any state or federal laws. I remove
old nests and rinse out boxes between nestings, but I thoroughly clean nestboxes
at the end of the season, making any necessary repairs. Dirty nestboxes harbor
diseases, and some insects lay eggs that survive our winters in the South.
Why begin the season with unnecessary problems? The following is from the Georgia
Department of Wildlife: From: Bruce Burdett [mailto:blueburd"at"tds.net]
I've just acquired two new Bluebird books, giving me a total of seven. All seven of them not only advocate, but also give instructions for, the very kinds of hands-on intervention that we Bluebirders all perform routinely:...monitoring, nest removal/replacement, banding, egg removal, manual inspection of chicks, plucking off blow-fly larvae, hand-feeding, predator eradication, mite control, etc,....things which some would call at least technically "illegal." Can it be that these authors and publishers are all abetting criminals? Bruce Burdett, SW NH From: judymellin [mailto:judymellin"at"netzero.net] Read these situations and ask yourself honestly what you think about them: Because it is early spring, the temps drop dramatically at night so you bring the eggs and nest into your laundry room and return them to the box in the morning You open a box and feel that there is feces on the nestlings so you take them out of the box and bathe them You have a first nesting and, on the day of hatching, you open the box ever hour to see what is happening You take the nestlings out of the box, hold them over a piece of paper and "thump" them to see if blowfly larvae fall off You take nestlings from one box to another ACROSS THE STATE to "foster" them in another nest of approximately the same stage of hatching Think these are just absurd examples? Think you'd never do these things or think they are made up? Well, ALL of them and many more have been done and posted on this listserv! It seems to be perfectly OK for those who do these things to report and revel in them, yet it's not OK to remind folks that these things should not be done. So who draws the line here? Is it OK to open the box every other hour on the day of hatching? Every four hours? Every time the line gets stretched, the next person stretches it a bit more. It is amazing that the folks who disagree with what I say are very verbal on the listserv and keep others from expressing their concerns. I have had 17 Messages off-list about this and everyone has thanked me for being willing to take the heat to remind people of what is happening. So be prepared- I will continue to remind folks about this when someone posts words like these: "This must involve more than the casual checking of nestboxes; this bluebirding is a full-time job. We must closely inspect the bluebird's territory for competitors and predators. We must closely inspect nests for signs parasites. Problems like blowfly infestations are difficult to detect. In fact, most of them take their blood meal in the evening and drop back down into the safety of the nest during the day's activities. We must carefully but regularly inspect eggs and hatchlings until they fledge. Finally, we should remove the nest for the next attempt. Only through these informed, careful inspections and documentations will we learn to improve the bluebird's chance for survival. As many of us as possible must become obsessed with these birds in order to learn as much as possible about their needs in an ever-changing environment due to our ever-increasing human impact." This was the post that precipitated my comments. Anyone who says we MUST do what he says causes me a great deal of concern. Judy Mellin From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com] Well, believe me, I have received some e-mails too Judy. You just keep ignoring what I said about discussions on these subjects are posted on The Reference Guide. This is just not a once a year occurrence, it is everytime someone comes on about something besides a "peep" in the box. When people post to the list and ask the absurd questions, how are we going to answer them if we cannot talk about it? I would think that more than one person might need to know it by posting to all. You have really put a damper on the list in the last year that you constantly have to come on with your dire warnings that we are all going to land in jail and close the list down. I say if it is good enough to be recommended reading from "The Best Of", we should be able to talk as freely as in previous times without you acting so paranoid about. As for the fostering situation you are talking about in your post, I had one of the very top persons at NABS to contact me about just that sort of thing that needed it done in 2002. (In my state) ...Evelyn Cooper Delhi, LA From: Bluebyrder"at"aol.com [mailto:Bluebyrder"at"aol.com] From: Phil Berry [mailto:mrtony8"at"mchsi.com] From: Sherry [mailto:sdwade"at"bellsouth.net] As of 8:50 AM we have 4 baby blues! One egg left. I'll be checking the box every hour or less. I did manage to get a few snap shots of the babies with my digital. I'm always amazed at the babies! Blessings to all! Sherry D. Wade-Conyers GA GACQ Coordinator From: Kate Arnold Sent: April 12, 2004 Subject BB Eggs Hatched! Just my opinion, but when I see that babies have just hatched, I leave the nest alone. Baby bluebirds cannot maintain their own temperature at this time, so I don't wish to scare mama off the nest more than necessary. I count hatchlings and remove unhatched eggs if necessary, several days later, giving them undisturbed time during these first critical days. Kate Arnold Paris, TX 100 mi NE of Dallas 33.6853N 95.6293W From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com]
If the weather is anything like it is here, it would be not be good for the babies to open the box. It is cold and raining here. There have been times if I felt like it was absolutely necessary to open the nestbox, I would put a jacket over my head and the nestbox so as to keep the cool and damp from going in and close the nestbox quickly. Evelyn Cooper Delhi, LA From: Sherry
[mailto:sdwade"at"bellsouth.net] I never remove any unhitched eggs. The mama and daddy knows what to do and she's not scared off by at in the least. She is used to us coming in and out of the door to our house which is about 6 feet from the nest box! Blessings! ... I live in Georgia and it's not raining and it's not cold. Blessings! Sherry D. Wade From: Evelyn
Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com] It's 56* here at noon in Louisiana (that's cold for us in April) and has been raining off and on for two days. I have two babies that are 6 days old and I have not opened the box for the last two days because of that. Even if the weather is nice, once a day would be a lot to open the nestbox when they are just hatched and for several days, in my opinion.... The parents do not always remove the eggs. If they don't after day five, some of us feel it is best to remove them because of the possibility of them breaking and the babies getting stuck in the mess. There have been stories of that on here. Evelyn From: Sherry [mailto:sdwade"at"bellsouth.net] I didn't ask for anyone's opinion, I just merely was sharing some good news with you all. This nest box is about 6 feet from my door. People are going in and out all day long. The momma is quite used to us. She's also used to 4 dogs running up and down the porch. It's a very long porch. I've done this many times with baby birds and I've never had any problems. Blessings! Sherry D. Wade From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com]
Just telling you what a great many people do and recommend that are on this list. What you do with yours is fine. Evelyn From:
MJShearer [mailto:eshearer"at"comcast.net] I live in GA, too, but I thought it was too chilly to open the nestbox this morning to check to see what all the excitement was about in my front yard. When the sun warmed things up this afternoon, I peeked in and found a nest full of newly hatched EABL nestlings where 5 eggs lay a few days ago! We're supposed to get more cold weather later in the week, so I won't open the box again for several days unless there appears to be a problem. I did notice a few mites crawling on the exterior of the box, but they're not a big problem yet. Also checked the Brown-headed Nuthatch and Carolina Chickadee nesting in backyard nestboxes, but those females are still brooding their respective 6-eggs. Papa Nuthatch has been feeding the female in the box most of the time, and she rarely leaves her eggs. MJ Mary Jane Shearer; Tucker, GA From: Sherry [mailto:sdwade"at"bellsouth.net] My last word on this is that you do what you feel is right for you and I will do what I feel like here where I live. Last year the same pair made a nest in the same box twice. Both times I opened the nest box daily and sometimes 2 times a day and all the babies fledged both times! Birds know how to take care of themselves. Blessings! Sherry D. Wade From: Phil Berry [ mailto:mrtony8"at"mchsi.com ] This is more than "my opinion." If you continue to open a box with new nestlings in it "2 times a day," you are seriously endangering these birds. Once weekly is plenty. Phil Berry Gulf Breeze, Florida From: Dottie Roseboom [mailto:rosedot"at"mtco.com] Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 7:51 PM Subject: Re: BB Eggs Hatched! Sherry, Congratulations on the baby bluebirds. You are right, that everyone has to decide what is right for his/her area. What works in Southern heat may not work for me, here in the north. However, common sense has a universal truth. And it seems that many, very experienced birders feel that newly hatched nestlings do NOT need to be checked every day. The birders are not trying to rain on your parade, but to help you see caution. Is there a reason that you are checking on the nestlings so often? Please think about why you are checking on them twice a day. Since you insist that the parents can take care of themselves, please allow them to do so. By observing the parents from a distance, you should be able to see that they are feeding the young. If you see a problem, then is the time to open the box and see if there is something that you can do. It is your choice about opening the box so often. I hope that if you continue, that your good luck stays with you. Please do not take offense with those that are concerned. Dottie Roseboom Peoria IL (central) From: Bruce Burdett [mailto:blueburd"at"tds.net] Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 9:01 AM To: ke4fej1"at"email.msn.com; sdwade"at"bellsouth.net Cc: bluebIRD-L"at"cornell.edu Subject: Re: BB Eggs Hatched! BLUEBIRD-L, I am one of those who sees no reason to open a box more often than every week or ten days, UNLESS I have a really strong suspicion of something wrong. Yet I gather that some folks like to open their boxes very frequently, even once a day. Judging from the exchanges on this list, this difference of opinion will never be resolved. Monitoring all my boxes (72) even every 3 or 4 days would require an astronomical amount of driving and bushwhacking, and would be completely impracticable. If my houses were right in my yard, I might feel differently,...but I doubt it. Bruce Burdett, SW NH From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 10:37 AM To: blueburd"at"tds.net; ke4fej1"at"email.msn.com; sdwade"at"bellsouth.net Cc: bluebIRD-L"at"cornell.edu Subject: RE: BB Eggs Hatched! Bruce, (now this is my opinion) I think we should be prudent about our monitoring. I feel that there are times we should monitor more frequently if there is a need for it, (conquering wasps in the nestboxes) but also there are times that frequent monitoring, such as weather and newborn chicks, that it is best to not monitor as often. I was able to show some very young babies on a tour to school children, but the weather was pretty and it was one look only that day. The newly hatched babies are naked, cannot retain their body heat well. The female has a brooding patch on her body that she keeps them warm for the first 5 days or so until they develop their feathers. Opening the nestbox in most all cases causes the female to leave the nest and the babies are instantly loosing their warmth. If this is done too frequently, it could not be for the best of the babies. I try to monitor about every other day (if the weather is fittin') when they are first hatched because sometimes a baby can die and the parents may not remove it. I've had that happen too. Most of all, let's enjoy and learn! Evelyn Cooper Delhi, LA From: Bet
Zimmerman [mailto:ezdz"at"charter.net] I had a similar reaction as others who responded on the issue of checking on newborns hourly--they are so fragile, weak from escaping the shell, and have no feathers to protect them from a draft or temperature shift. Personally, I would not take the chance unless I thought there was some problem with the hatching. .... Bet from CT From: jwick"at"tds.net [mailto:jwick"at"tds.net] I would agree with Kate. It would be best not to stress either the mother or the newly hatched young. Ann Wick Black Earth, WI From: Sherry [mailto:sdwade"at"bellsouth.net]
From: Barbara Burnum [in response to a question about whether a bluebird frightened out of a nest at night will return] The birds know what's best. I always thought that the bluebirds could not see well at night, thus it is best not to monitor near or after dusk. That is still a good policy, because owls and other night predators may be watching. And obviously, because I can't see well in the dark! However, in my opinion, the motherly instinct would bring her back into the box if the babies are 6 days old or less, or if incubation is needed. Barbara Burnham >Ellicott City, MD From: Tyler Mann [mailto:t_mann05"at"hotmail.com]
hello my 6 TRES eggs hatched yesterday and the parents are busily feeding them today. how many days untill they fledge? does anyone know the success percentage of TRES nests? i had a nest last year and it may be the same pair. they were successful last year. they are nesting in a gilbertson style nest box. one of the greatest boxes designed ever. my opinion, the best yet at keeping sparrows out. i have 3 of these boxes, one of which holds the TRES currently, and another, EABL with eggs about to hatch, and the last one EABL just fledged a week ago but no new nest has been constructed yet and the male hasnt been around like he should lately. any ideas as to what is going on at the EABL box with no nest yet? i saw both the male and female near the box yesterday but not today but i have to work so i wont be home to see. the boxes are close to my yard so i moniter them regularly checking each one about once a day. any help is appreciated thanks tyler in west central OH From: Bruce Burdett [mailto:blueburd"at"tds.net] Tyler, et al, I know that there are several schools of thought about this frequency-of-monitoring question. However, speaking as one who tries to monitor my 72 houses every week or ten days, I must say that daily monitoring strikes me as somewhat excessive. I simply don't like to disturb the birds that much. When I was a novice beekeeper, many years ago, I had this insatiable urge to open my hives and inspect them two or three times a day, simply out of curiosity. Another beekeeper, older and wiser than I, convinced me that one opening a week is plenty. I should have figured it out for myself, since the bees just kept getting madder and madder with my daily monitorings. Once I eased off, they became increasingly docile. Tree Swallows and Bluebirds aren't bees, but I do think that you're monitoring just a bit too often, and I doubt that the birds appreciate it. Bruce Burdett, SW NH From: Keith & Sandy Kridler [mailto:txbluebirder"at"sbcglobal.net] I found a young House Sparrow that had it's feet wrapped up in some fluffy polyester fibers from some clothing, probably used for something insulated. The baby had perished but it was obviously older than normal fledge times for these birds so the parents had continued to feed this youngster for quite some time. I have only found a couple of baby birds trapped in nesting material their parents have brought into the nests....This is another reason to carefully look at the nests when you open a box and to continue to carefully monitor nests beyond the 13 or 15 day "rule" that someone came up with. MANY bad things can happen between day 13 and day 21!!!! Losing eggs is a loss of only a couple of days. Losing 15 or 16 day old birds is a loss of a whole month or the rest of the season!!! .... KK From: Nina Everett [mailto:NINAUT"at"CHARTER.NET] Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 6:06 PM Subject: Re: New Mom Is it okay to open the box while the mother is sitting on the nest? Haven't From: Shawn [mailto:shawnee4"at"charter.net] You are not alone. I am new at this, too, and have it bad. I can stare at the occupied boxes for hours, looking for signs of activity! I think the Bluebird Monitor's Guide says to watch the box (when, in your case, it is in your backyard) to see that both parents are gone. This is easier said than done. We have an occupied box in our backyard, and it is hard to tell for sure if mama is there or not. I had not been able to check it since the 17th when I counted two eggs, because every time I walked up to it, she peeked out at me. I was lucky yesterday, knocked on it, and opened it slowly, no mama, but five eggs. Mama Carolina Chickadee is always there, too. Since she is small, I don't see her peek out. I checked it the 17th (a rare time she wasn't there at the moment) and counted five eggs. Haven't been able to count since. I knock, still can't tell she's there 'til I slowly open just enough to see her, and when I see her, I close it again. I put up three boxes at the place I keep my horse. Only one is occupied (one has a completed Bluebird nest, but I think they moved to the current box). The first time I checked it (it is higher than the one at home, I have to stand on a bucket to look in, too high for me to see her peek out), she was on the nest. I slowly closed it, but she flew out anyway. At least I was able to count that time. Apparently she wasn't too traumatized, she's been faithfully sitting on them. I have caught her in there a couple more times, and just close the box (she stays now). Shawn in Sevierville, TN From: Nina Everett [mailto:NINAUT"at"CHARTER.NET] Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 2:48 PM Subject: Re: New Mom Shawn, I saw Mr. B sitting on top of the nest box and went down that way From: Lynn Emerich [mailto:lemerich"at"epix.net] Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 6:31 PM Subject: Re: New Mom Nina, Usually the birds know what they're doing. Mrs b will keep the Lynn near Bernville PA. From: Shawn [mailto:shawnee4"at"charter.net] Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 7:58 PM Subject: Re: New Mom Nina, Neat! I think, like you, I worry too much. I haven't seen either parent Shawn in Sevierville, TN From: Paul Kilduff [mailto:pkilduff"at"usconnex.net] Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 10:33 AM Subject: Trail managers: Frequency of monitoring for volunteers Paul Kilduff, Baltimore MD I inherited a system of monitoring along with the trail at Oregon Ridge Park (Cockeysville, Baltimore County, MD) wherein each volunteer monitored the boxes every third weekend. I kept it that way but now wish I hadn't, because it seems that people are not in the habit of monitoring every week, so when their week finally arrives it's an interruption, something they have to make time for in their busy schedule, instead of something they take for granted. I also think that the emotional component, the "I can't wait to check the boxes because I want to see what happened this week" component, is missing because this week's eggs turn into an empty box by the time a given volunteer monitors again. Some have busy weekends, and they end up going on Friday, Monday, or even Tuesday, leading to 9- or 10-day intervals, uneven coverage. I ask that people send an email report to sort of keep the off-week people emotionally involved, and also so I can keep an eye on things, check for obvious mistakes, signs of trouble, etc., but the email is a hassle that the volunteers sometimes put off as long as they can. On the other hand some don't like to use the book, and monitor when the Nature Center where we keep the monitor kits is closed, so if I look at the book it may be missing the last two weeks' worth of data. I'd like to know what others' experiences are. I'd like to revamp expectations, one way or the other, and could use some guidance from other trail managers. Do you participate in/manage a system wherein volunteers monitor less often than once per week? What's the pattern, and how does it work? If your volunteers monitor weekly, do you think this frequency makes it harder to find and keep volunteers? What about communication? Do your people send emails? Do you keep track of what your monitors are doing? Is there a record book and do you have access to it? Generally, what kind of system do you have, how does it work, what is particularly successful and what probably doesn't work all that well? Thank you! From: Bruce Burdett [mailto:blueburd"at"verizon.net] Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 1:43 PM Subject: Re: Trail managers: Frequency of monitoring for volunteers Paul, |
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