Micromanagement of Nestboxes

From: "Gary Springer" springer"at"alltel.net
To: "BLUEBIRD-L" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Cc: "Gary Springer" springer"at"alltel.net
Subject: Dead birds/micromanagement
Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 11:54:11 -0400

I feel horrible when I find a box of dead birds that are well developed the same way all of us do. This awful experience is new to me.

But, I think we need to keep this in perspective.

As Keith pointed out, in most regions the weather which affected fledge rates but had minimal impact on adult populations, is a once in a hundred year occurrence. Hopefully this isn't the beginning of a trend.

Second, if we put up 20 or more nest boxes instead of one or two, many nestlings would have survived with no changes to the nest boxes. (Of course, blocking ventilation helps in cold snaps and this should be done. Malinda Masteko lives in Michigan and her bluebirds are on their second clutch. And, as Haleya wrote the loss of chicks is a combination of food availability and cold. A bird that has enough food can handle far lower temperatures. But, remember that finding food is a learned experience, not instinct. I've been watching adult bluebird parents teach their young how to catch food all week. The birds that survived without mealworm supplementation may have known one or two tricks about finding natural sources of food that were unknown to birds that did not survive. I think recent experiences show it is important not to interfere with these food gathering lessons.)

We had the same blast of cold weather here in North Georgia at a latitude higher than almost all of South Carolina and part of North Carolina but also at high elevation with weather coming directly from the mountains which I can see from a tall tree on the property. The hardiness zone in which I live extends into Pennsylvania.

I had about 13 clutches of chickadees and titmice and lost three complete clutches but about 58 young still fledged. There were only 26 breeding adults at the beginning of spring that used the nest boxes and now there are 94 birds(26+58), a pretty good increase in population. Of course I know many of these will be lost but I'm just trying to put things into perspective.

Even with the devastation Haleya experienced there was probably an increase in populations of bluebirds on her trail. Even if fledge rates on our nest box trails are far lower at times, as in nature, populations are not always steadily on the increase.

Thankfully this bad weather caused no problems for the adult chickadees and titmice and hopefully minimal negative impact on adult bluebirds.

When Dean Sheldon coined the term micromanagement in bluebirding he meant for people to stop staring and manipulating one box with one pair and one clutch and instead put that same time, effort and stress into putting up more boxes. The impact will be much more beneficial for the birds and prevent emotional devastation when something doesn't work out the way we want. Haleya has already fledged 4 clutches of bluebirds this spring and should feel very good about that success. Had she not followed Dean's recommendation, this very day she would probably be feeling ecstatic about fledging one fourth as many meal worm fed bluebirds.

Gary Springer

----- Original Message -----
From: "paul kilduff" plkldf"at"hotmail.com
To: springer"at"alltel.net
Cc: plkldf"at"hotmail.com
Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2002 9:24 AM
Subject: Re: losing of chickadee's

Hi, Gary,

First, I'm trying to be honest, and let people know if I'm having
trouble with something. I hated to mention the Springer Chalet, but
it does have a
lot of ventilation, and in fact, that's why I wanted to make some, so they'd
stay cool in the hot weather.

I also just today sent a Message to the list (cc you), and said that
this particular Springer has even more ventilation than spec, because
of my top-opening modification.

Still, I wish I had done something in terms of a removable vent block,
as I
said earlier.

To answer your question, the babies were alive Tues night, and there
appeared to be only a single adult feeding them. Weds afternoon they
were dead. The low for Tues night was 38, but that is usually at the
airport, and it was probably 2 degrees warmer here. So figure 40.

The temps before that had also been cold, in the 40's overnight.

best,
Paul


From: "Gary Springer" springer"at"alltel.net
To: "paul kilduff" plkldf"at"hotmail.com
Subject: Re: losing of chickadee's
Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 05:44:23 -0400

Hi Paul,

Thanks for sending me a copy of your post.

I haven't been able to find time to read the list lately.

How cold did it get when you lost the chickadees? Day and night
highs and
lows and number of days lapsed? Please let me know as closely as possible.

Gary



----- Original Message -----
From: "paul kilduff" plkldf"at"hotmail.com
To: BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Cc: kridler"at"1starnet.com; springer"at"alltel.net;
bluebirds"at"austin.rr.com; plkldf"at"hotmail.com
Sent: Friday, May 24, 2002 5:33 PM
Subject: Re: losing of chickadee's


Paul Kilduff, Baltimore MD

KK: thank you for your reply. When you talk I listen.

Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas WROTE:

If temperatures are getting down into the 30's then there is
a good
chance hypothermia is setting in and the chicks cannot beg for
food
they
are
so cold. All of your nesting birds run into the same problem as
the
chicks
get too large for a single adult to keep them all warm.

This seems hard to believe, that nestlings surrounded by
insulative
nest,
and covered by warm mama bird, could get hypothermia. However,
you are
very
clear in your statement, and I believe you.

I begin to think this far north (or in this weird climatic phase
we seem
to
have entered) I should have built my Springer chalets with less
ventilation
-- or maybe I was sloppy in my "cabinetmaking skills." Maybe will
fit
my
Springers with removable vent slot blocks until all chance of cold
weather
is gone.


We have been sleeping with windows open enjoying the 40*F
nights
but
last
night to test for hypothermia I set a fan in the window and let
it blow
air
into the bedroom and we nearly froze.

You are an animal! And, I agree with Pauline, your wife is a
saint!

House Wrens can enter any hole the chickadees can
enter and they also kill young birds on occasion.

I wonder if they do it without leaving a mark. There was no
definite trauma, and little evident trauma of any kind.

My basic approach is I don't want to set up a deathtrap. I accept
losses
(though I had "imprinted" on these little guys when they were one
day
old --
about as high as my thumbnail, perfectly-formed, naked little
things,
waving
their wings -- I can seem them now), but I don't want to keep the
box
open
for a re-nesting if the HOWR is going to come back and kill them again!

That's why I'm being such a pest: if it was HOSP (which I think
not) or
HOWR, I'll be inclined to vote to take down the box and let them
take
their
chances with non-human-built cavities -- no point in having the
second nesting come to the same end as the first one did -- if it
was mom-loss/hypothermia, we'll put the feeder on a telescoping
pole,
discourage
the cat, and reduce the vent slots.

I don't want perfection, but I don't want to put out a deathtrap.

Pauline's Message praises you for doing just that for the sake of
research,
with Petersons, and I salute you for that!

best,
Paul in Baltimore

From: "Crystal Hill" crystaljhill"at"msn.com
To: "Bluebird_Post_Cornell" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Monitoring Bluebird Nestbox
Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 12:34:05 -0400

We have 4 bluebird eggs total in nest and Mama seems to be starting incubation staying at the box more. And no more eggs for the past 2 days. When I continue to monitor the box from now until they fledge, what is best? Before there were periods of time they were not around or near the box. Now they are close and we see the pair perched on a near by tree or power line. Is it okay to check with them watching? Also, they are successfully eating the meal worms in a dish. However, they still have not gone into the feeder (mealworm feeder with entrance hole at either side). Will it just take some time? Thanks for all the responses and help.

Crystal
Social Circle, Newton County, Georgia

From: hubertrap"at"webtv.net (Joe Huber)
Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 15:41:41 -0400 (EDT)
To: crystaljhill"at"msn.com, BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Monitoring Bluebird Nestbox

Yes you can check the nest box while parents are watching. at least this way you know the female is out of the box. don't be afraid if they dive bomb you while opening the box since this is natural behavior and they will miss you when diving at you. Joe huber, venice, fl.

Charter member NABS, Charter member OBS, Life member OBS Joe Huber
hubertrap"at"webtv.net 

http://community.webtv.net/hubertrap/HOUSESPARROWCONTROL 

http://community.webtv.net/hubertrap/RoostingBluebirds

27.1171494 N Lo -82.4124222 W
He who ask a question is stupid for five minutes, He who never ask a
question remains stupid forever, Chinese Proverb.

From: "Crystal Hill" crystaljhill"at"msn.com
To: "Bluebird_Post_Cornell" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Monitoring Bluebird Nestbox
Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 12:34:05 -0400

...

Dear List

I am a little concerned about the list traffic which details various degrees of what may be 'overinvolvement' in the birds' nesting routines.

-removing babies from a box which appeared to be abandoned although the parents later reappeared and the babies returned to the box but later removed again.

-Others are unsure whether to remove eggs that appear to be abandoned for 1-2 days.

-Trying to cross foster 3 week old abandoned eggs.

I think this gives the wrong impression to persons new to bluebirding. It may give the impression that we "need" to do something everytime we 'think' something is wrong.

Let's not forget that in many (most?) cases, the bird knows best.
If babies are abandoned or found dead, the parents may have made a sacrifice so that they themselves could live (scarcity of food)
Perhaps there was something not quite right about the babies.
If eggs are left unattended for a day or so, this is ok and we don't need to worry about whether we're not doing something we think we ought to do.

Let's let the birds be birds.

I am not talking about monitoring. I think that is excellent and I myself look at my boxes 2X/week.
Obviously everyone out there can do whatever they choose to do. And that's good.
I'm just offering this up as another viewpoint, because I don't think I've heard it expressed.

Sometimes nature is not 'nice' . This anthropromorphic quality is something humans have supposed upon it.
Nature is not "nice" or "bad" . It just is.

We all want to help the birds. But don't allow yourself to feel guilty if not all your babies make it to fledging, or because you didn't do this or that.
Birds make the best bird decisions.

Amy Marr
Greenfield, IN 46140

Hi Amy,

I couldn't agree more. Often good monitoring doesn't need to involve anything more than observing the nest box from a distance. Unless one is able to watch a nest box continuously, it is impossible to second guess the parents.

I've said over and over here that our primary focus should be providing well constructed and placed nest boxes appropriate for the area and climate, and actively controlling introduced competitors like House Sparrows.

Not every place is good nesting habitat. Sometimes it seems we continuously try to force this issue and sometimes we would be doing better to let the Bluebirds and Tree Swallows choose to go elsewhere.

A lot of us here are experiencing mortality from cold, wet weather, and while I agree that baby Bluebirds can be pretty cold tolerant, a wet, cold Bluebird can quickly become a dead Bluebird. Other than using a tight nestbox with minimal ventilation, there isn't anything a monitor can do to change natural limiting factors. Bluebirds have evolved to maintain viable populations to survive natural disasters with adequate clutch sizes and renesting efforts.

Thanks,
Rob Barron

Amy Louise, Rob, et al,

In my opinion, we must not forget that the Natural Selection process is always at work, night and day, every day, whether we like it or not. The hardiest, the wariest, the strongest, the most tolerant, the most adaptable creatures survive to pass on their traits to the next generation, and that has been going on for a long, long time. Perhaps if a Bluebird does not make it, he was not *meant* to make it.
In my opinion, only Man has contrived ways to permit ill-equipped individuals to survive and pass on their genes.
I think that these opinions make me a Social Darwinist. What do you think?

Bruce Burdett SW NH

Hello to all.

I heartily agree with the last few posts. Evolution has prepared birds to deal with Nature's challenges. We shouldn't be interfering. Some examples:

A BB I am currently monitoring faithfully incubated her eggs for 35 days, despite 2 freezes and more than a week of horrible cold rainy weather.
Yesterday the sun finally made an appearance and the temp went into the 70's. I noticed a sudden flurry of activity around the nest and the male began singing again. I took a peek and, sure enough, there was a new nest on top of the bad eggs, nearly complete in less than a day.

Another box, which had been filled with twigs two weeks ago by a hopeful male House Wren (who sang his heart out all week in the pouring rain), suddenly was "discovered" by a female yesterday, and the nest was completed today.

The young of a pair of house finches, one of the few species that feeds its young a seed diet, successfully fledged yesterday.

Last year a pair of BB's I was monitoring successfully raised three healthy chicks in a nest built on top of an earlier unsuccessful nest containing an infertile egg, 2 dead chicks (killed by an unusual heat wave) and lots of maggots.

The previous year a BB nestling choked to death on a huge cranefly larva (I have pictures, if you don't believe it.). The rest of the nestlings fledged successfully despite the presence of their decomposing sibling in the nest.

The bottom line- It is the unnatural challenges produced by humans that birds can't cope with. Our job is to undo the damage human activities have done, not to turn bluebirds into pets. If we coddle them too much, they will end up like the Chimney Swifts, completely dependent upon humans for survival. As the current plight of that species proves, that's not a good idea.

Linda Ruth
Coventry, Connecticut

From: JBrindo"at"aol.com [mailto:JBrindo"at"aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 7:04 AM
Subject: Re:concerns about overinvolvement with nests/bi...

Hi Linda - Like so many things in life and nature, it's all about balance.
Thanks for your comments. I guess each of us has to decide where to draw that line you speak of.

I recently watched that movie called Grizzly Man. The young man in the movie lost his perspective and went out of balance. In the end, he got too close - and was eaten.

On the other hand - Henry David Thoreau tapped our social consciousness with his beautiful poetry about nature and especially the bluebird. Guys like Thom Musselman and Bill Duncan intervened with nature back in the 1920's and 30's and literally saved the Bluebirds from extinction. I think they saw it like -- someone cuts down trees for houses, we put up bluebird boxes, someone brings an English Sparrow into the country, we must now try to resist their over populating, someone makes a farm field into a manufacturing park, we must put up bluebird boxes.

I view our intervention as a necessary reaction to man's (in many cases) blatant disregard and lack of respect for our world. We are the lucky ones who are in touch with and see the beauty Thoreau spoke about.

Last night I laid in bed so hoping a little bluebird would make it through the night. He's lost 4 siblings to the cold and rain here in Ohio. If he doesn't, I know it's part of the natural world of nature. But I put up the box he's in, so I feel like cheering him on. Not to make my birding stats. look good, but something very deep inside really loves that little guy. Have I made him like a pet, I don't know. If I wouldn't of put up the box, I wouldn't be worrying. I need to keep it in balance, you're right.

Reading the views of fellow birders like yourself and keeping a non-judgement mind-set really helps me. Thanks again.

P. S. My great-great-great grandparents came from Connecticut and founded the area in which I now live. Their names were Griswold and Huntoon. Small world sometimes!

Jay K. Brindo
Mountain Glen Farm Trail
North Eastern, Ohio
Geauga County Coordinator, Ohio Bluebird Society
Holden Arboretum Bluebird Volunteer

Well, I cannot evaluate that Linda has been non-judgmental toward the way the majority of us monitor. We keep getting these posts from her that sounds like we should stick the box up and view it from afar. She has sent several posts that we are doing TOO much and should not be doing this and that. There's not a single thing I've done that I feel has made the birds I've raised "pets" and that they cannot survive out there.

One thing I agree very much with you on, it is it up the individual as to what they do. If I cut off the raisins (which I have temporarily), for good, they will survive. I see them in the yard getting insects every day.

Just because I remove an unhatched egg or a dead baby way before fledging, doesn't make them a "Pet". Many of these birds I raise will nest in the many natural cavities that I am so lucky to see for miles around me and they will know what to do even though I have done a little extra for them on my trail. I have no regrets about anything I do for them. In fact, I feel my actions have produced more birds in the long run.

If we didn't have that passion and caring that you describe below, their population would show a difference. Many people don't have it. Also, when they find there is a little work involved in it, they loose interest. I have seen that in lots of people since we have been working with them statewide in our organization. It is flat work to fight HOSP's no buts about it. Some just quit when they see what is involved. I can think of two right now that did.

We are definitely already there as far as the cavity nesters depending on us for homes. Does that make them "pets"? I don't think so.

Evelyn

Hi Ruth,

I lost several egg-or-just-hatching stage nests due to the recent weather unpleasantness. If they try again in that box, the parents may pull out the dead nestling but will probably just build a new nest floor over the failed eggs.

This might not work on Linda's "freshly dead" young (& as much as i like bluebirds, i don't think i'd put a possibly dead one on my tummy), but there is a way to tell if a naked bird is definitely dead. Once the heart stops beating, all the blood pools down, so it'll look like there's a big bruise on whatever side the bird was lying on. I haven't looked at the tiny nestlings as much as the larger ones.

I always remove dead young from an active nest -- Depending on the weather, the carcass could just dry out or it could get totally gross. Even discounting predators, that has to create an unhealthy environment.

This bad weather actually came at a not-so-bad time.
There's still plenty of time for bluebirds to try again (& i had lots of nests that made it), & the Tree Swallows were just starting so they still have time too. I'm hoping the rest of the season is perfect.
:-)

yours, Torrey

Torrey Wenger
Kalamazoo Nature Center
Kalamazoo, MI

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