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Problems with insecticides on a bluebird trail (part 4)(All material was originally posted on the mailing list Bluebird-L or Bluebird and reposted here with only slight modifications to make them more readable in an HTML format, for more information about Bluebird-L check out the following http://www.cit.cornell.edu/cit-pubs/email/using-lists/index.html. or for the mailing list Bluebird run by Dusty Bleher check out http://fsinc.com/wildbirds/Bluebird/List)If you are the author of a posting to one of the mailing lists and you would like to see a particular post (or posts) removed from these web pages please contact me at: bluebirdbox@cox.net and I will remove whatever material you like. If you have an opinion different than one posted hear you need not contact me as often I will have a different opinion also. My intent is to try and provide both sides to the issues confronting bluebirders and to do so in an impartial manner.In cases in which quoted material has been deleted to save space, it is indicated by an ellipsis (....) In addition to the messages that have appeared on the Bluebird Mailing Lists on this topic I have the following on my web site: Predators and Problems On The Bluebird Trail
From: MSBOC@aol.com I have a question. My lawn is loaded with voles or moles. There are holes...and holes. And holes. A few years ago I used a "natural" lawn company. They sprinkled something to rid the lawn of grubs, but that did no good obviously. (It certainly did not seem to hurt the bluebirds.) Now I know I need to go for something more powerful. The bluebirds are back too. From what I've read, I have to keep my dog off the grass until it rains and dries. That I can handle. Even if I apply the chemical right before it rains, it's the bluebirds, of course, that I'm concerned about. Comments? Has anyone dealt with this problem, and if so what did you use and what were your experiences? Thanks in advance....
From: "Keith & Sandy Kridler" <kridler@1starnet.com> Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas Moles are not that hard to trap once you learn their habits. The closed loop mole trap works better than the spike trap and is safer where kids are going to be near the trap. Voles go through population cycles and it sounds like more kestrel and screech owl boxes need to be in the general area:-)). Repeating vole traps can be purchased or made by burying a five gallon bucket in the ground, cover the top but leave small entrance holes where they will fall over into the bucket and drown in soapy water. Hunting perches for owls and hawks can be installed made from pipe with a 12" long horizontal wood perch installed so that they can sit about 10>12 feet off of the ground, If there are no other good natural perches for them to hunt from. Spraying a lawn for ridding it of moles is like General Sherman burning Atlanta to get rid of the Confederates. They just have to move out of the yard until the earthworms return and then they will also return. KK
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:18:48 -0600 On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 MSBOC@aol.com wrote: >to rid the lawn of grubs, but that did no good obviously... Now I know >and dries. That I can handle... [snip] to which KK replied: >Atlanta to get rid of the Confederates. They just have to move out of Keep in mind that spraying potent pesticides may briefly eliminate the targeted insect pests, but they are also harmful to beneficials (such as the above mentioned earthworms) and pollinators like bees, moths and butterfiles. Pesticide companies advise that people and pets be kept off treated lawn for good reason. We used to camp at an RV park in Florida. Our neighbors traveled with a toy collie that they'd tie out in the grass. The husband was hellbent on ridding their small greenpatch of ants, so would fill a coffee can punched with holes with granulated Dursban and methodically shake the stuff like powdered sugar over the entire lawn. Well, one day the poor wife couldn't figure out why her little dog wouldn't eat, was trembling, salivating and had the runs. I told her he probably had insecticide poisoning and should be taken to the closest vet. We left that day so we never heard the outcome. But it stands to reason that if a substance affects insects' nervous systems, larger doses of it will affect animals higher up the food chain. A Google search on 'moles' indictes your moles are feeding on grubs, so yes, reducing the grub population would encourage moles to relocate. To avoid harming BBs and beneficials, why not go the environmentally friendly route one more time? Try nematodes or milky spore disease (a biological control agent) to eliminate the grubs, and mole repellents for the moles. Gardensalive.com sells these products. I also have a recipe for a homemade castor oil-based mole repellent that my garden club swears by. If anyone wants it I'll send it along. A more agressive method of eliminating both moles (worm/grub eaters and diggers of tunnels) and voles (rodents - seed eaters that use the tunnels) is to put a mousetrap under an overturned flowerpot placed over the burrow opening. A gardening friend with a mole/vole vendetta claims 100% success. Good luck and happy Spring!
From: "Allene Miller" <acarlenea@hotmail.com> you probably will end up gasing them. This is the safe way for other things
except things that live in the tunnel with the moles, i.e,.mice. I believe
the chemical or gas used is formaldehyde but I'd check with the CEOfice. Also,
once the moles have eaten the grubs, which do a lot of damage to the roots of
your grass and flowers and whatever, you should take something heavy and roll
over the tunneled area, the grass roots will then make contact with soil and
continue to grow and the rough places will be gone and so will the grubs.
This is safest to everything except the grubs.
To: BLUEBIRD-L@cornell.edu (BLUEBIRD-L) ues a spring loaded mole trap it works great i have used them for years try one you will like it,, and you want be takeing a chance on any poision at all Al I have a question. My lawn is loaded with voles or moles. ...
From: "Bonnie Boex/Ed Baker" <bakerbon@earthlink.net> Bonnie Boex Su: A cautionary suggestion! Those voles and moles are in the food chain and do not exist autonomously in the environment. How important is your lawn and yard? Is it worth the death of a Kestral; a hawk; or any other wildlife that depends on those voles and moles as their food source.. Also, after you've killed them with chemicals, you will have created a "vacancy." In nature, something else will step in to fill that vacancy and the chances are good you'll just get more moles and voles. You're better off making your yard in-hospitable and unwelcoming to them. Use the tonic listed below. It will drive them out of your yard and they'll be alive to spread the word to other voles & moles that your yard isn't the best place to go. We humans think we're the only mammals that can communicate, but that's not true. Here's a tonic called "Mole Chaser." -----Original Message----- ...
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 16:15:07 -0600 Since I had such a good response I thought it easier if I posted the recipe here (and thanks to Bonnie B for her "Mole Chaser" recipe, too): **** 1 TBS Castor oil (available at any pharmacy) Blend oil and detergent until it looks like shaving cream, then add water and
blend. In watering can mix 2 TBS of Mole Away with 1/2 gallon of water. Sprinkle
on the affected area. Works especially well if the soil is wet after a rain. Castor oil is supposed to be very unappealing to moles. Our garden club members ask for this recipe every summer, so it must be good! ----
From: "BONNIE A. YEAGER" <dement@frognet.net> Has anyone in Ohio observed bluebirds eating a rather large (~1 inch) white larvae in the spring of the year? These larvae are much bigger than a Japanese beetle larvae. The bluebirds typically beat the larvae to death on the top of fence post prior to eating them. I am sure these larvae are Very high in fat content and are a Great food source for getting the birds into top form for the breeding season. I have observed bluebirds eating these larvae for several years and would like to know what the adult form (beetle) of this larvae is. Can anyone help? Thank you,
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 21:15:25 -0600 on Sat, 16 Mar 2002 "BONNIE A. YEAGER" <dement@frognet.net> wrote: > Has anyone in Ohio observed bluebirds eating a rather large I'm in Wisconsin but I'll bet those big grubs are brown June bugs/beetles. I dig up plenty every year and toss 'em to the robins. There's a neat article with perfect descriptions of both grub and bug at http://newton.dep.anl.gov/natbltn/100-199/nb121.htm from the archives (1947) of the Cook County Forest Preserve (Illinois, my home state and county!). ----
From: "Gary Springer" <springer@alltel.net> Just wondering why the voles and moles with all their holes and tunnels couldn't be just another one of nature's welcome guests in the yard right along with the bluebirds. At least they don't leave white spots on the car. I can only imagine that after they've cleared a yard of the prey that attracts them and move on to better hunting grounds that credit for exterminating them will be given to whatever gimmick was deployed at the time. About the chickadees in the nest box set up for bluebirds; I'd put up yet another nest box or two and reduce the hole to inch and an eighth after the chickadee lays its eggs so the bluebird won't be able to evict the chickadees. Gary Springer
From: "Fread J" <firefrost2@hotmail.com> Fread Loane, Tulsa, OK The beetle larvae which was being softened by pounding against a wooden post by a bluebird was possibly the larval form of the Masked Chafer beetle, more commonly known as "the June Bug". The adult form is generally between one-quarter to one-half inch in length, is reddish-brown in color, has a hard shell (carapace) and is quite rotund (nice way of saying he is "fat"). They commonly gather at a yard/porch light on a late Spring evening (hence the common name "June Bug"). The larval form is a thick, curled white grub known for its capacity to turn turf grasses brown when they munch away at the roots. While most nursery staff will steer you to some of the broad spectrum insecticides that kill indiscriminately, I would rather see your approach to remove these larval beetle forms from your turf areas by using beneficial nematodes. These are microscopic tiny worms which attack larval forms found in the soil. Once your soil is inoculated properly, the nematode population will stabilize and should provide satisfactory control for years to come. 'Fisher people' on this list will recall finding these grubs under hay or manure piles where they were collected and used as an excellent tough bait for Channel Catfish! The biological-biorational control that I would recommend is not commercially available at present. Essentially it is a new found strain of "milky spore disease" caused by entomophathogenic nematodes, the natural enemy of white grubs. Watch for new press releases on this product (Yet to be named). The beneficial entomophathogenic nematode that I would strongly recommend is Heterohabditis 'bacteriophora' as it has consistently shown good activity against white grubs. It is found in the commercially available product of "CRUISER". A second biological-biorational control that is available is the synthesized hormone "ecdysone". This hormone controls the molting cycles of white grubs. Using this synthetic hormone triggers the untimely response of molting and results in death of the grub. Look for the product name of "MACH 2" (halofenozide) as it has shown consistent and excellent control over a number of white grub species. Fread J. Loane, horticulturist
From: "BONNIE A. YEAGER" <dement@frognet.net> A few months back someone on BB-L had a mole/vole/burrowing critter problem. Check out www.GardensAlive.com. They have a product called Mole-Med Dry. This product is supposed to get rid of burrowing critters. It is also supposed to be environmentally safe (castor oil). Gardens Alive also sells Bird Grub. It is a bird feed supplement - 100% dehydrated caterpillars. They also sell a suet cake called Hi-Vitality Grub cakes. These suet cakes are vegetable based and contain dehydrated caterpillars. I have not tried any of these products and don't own any Gardens Alive stock. Fred Yeager,
From: "Kellams, Dina M" <dmkellam@indiana.edu> I've still not been able to get a good look in my box due to a divebombing papa, but I did catch a quick peek and saw at least 2 babies waiting for some food! We are having a SERIOUS bagworm (aka tentworms) problem in our area (I have hundreds crawling on the outside of my house - disgusting) and all of my neighbors are going around spraying them with some Ortho poison. Much to their dismay, I told them I was not going to do that because I was worried about my birds eating a poisoned bug, but that I had been going around knocking them off and spraying them with the water hose in my effort to fight them. What have others done about their pest problems? I have seen the blues in my neighbor's yard so I really hope they don't pick up one of his poisoned bugs.... Dina
Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 14:48:49 -0400 on 5/6/02 10:08 AM, Kellams, Dina M at dmkellam@indiana.edu wrote: > I've still not been able to get a good look in my box due to a ... A few years ago, we suffered through an onslaught of caterpillar worms of Biblical proportions. Our house and every tree literally seemed to be crawling with the little beggars. We checked around and found that the safest way to controll them is with a 50-50 mixture of liquid dish soap and water. We filled several spray bottles and handed them out to the grandkids. It might work with tent worms also. For worms that were too high to reach, we first knocked them down with a blast from the hose. (They immediately fall, a good indication the mixture works, and will die soon after.) The carcass will form a "V". I don't know about tent worms, but we couldn't find anything that would touch a caterpillar worm. We tried feeding a few healthy ones to the fish and they didn't like them either. Good luck, I know what you're going through! larry... --
From: "Doug Rohde" <d.rohde@attbi.com> Highland Village, Texas Bagworms and Tent Caterpillars are not the same critter, although both are members of the same order: Bagworm - newly hatched bagworms make conical silk bags that hang from tree limbs/twigs. Larvae can often be seen hanging from silken treads before building their bag. Tent Caterpillar - form a silk tent in the tree crotch. The same natural controls can be used for both: 1) release of tricogramma
wasps, or 2) spray with citrus oil (delimonene) products, or 3) spray Bacillus
thuringiensis product. All of these should be available through a local garden
center or can be purchased on-line (www.gardensalive.com, and others). It is
absolutely not necessary to use Ortho or any other pesticide which will kill
beneficial insects and can injure birds, animals, humans. . ...
From: "Dottie, Hickory Hollow, Brown County, Indiana" <yumyumkatts@voyager.net> Has anyone used this insecticide or know anything about it? GardenGuides says it is natural insecticide. I don't use chemicals so I am thinking about placing an order but thought I would ask the List first. This is what the write up says about it: "Pyola is a broad-spectrum spray that combines pyrethrin, a long-popular natural insecticide derived from pyrethrum flowers, with canola oil, extracted from rapeseed. Unlike most pesticides, it controls all stages of the insect's life cycle, including eggs." I saw Neem oil in the store and checked out the label and it had a hazardous warning. Does anyone know if there are different Neem oil products? Is all Neem oil safe to use? I appreciate your help. The Japanese beetles are just around the corner. Dottie, Hickory Hollow
From: "Doug Rohde" <d.rohde@attbi.com> Dottie, There is a great selection of natural insecticides, depending on the pest and
circumstances. To the extent possible we want to kill only the "bad bugs", not
the beneficial bugs and/or the polinators. The links below provide information
regarding some of the natural insecticide choices.
http://www.dirtdoctor.com/article.asp?id=599&Parsed=true&Param0=pyrethrum
Although Pyrethrum (note the spelling) is a natural product, it is VERY toxic and would be my last choice of the natural products. Pyrethrum insecticide is made by grinding up the leaves, stems and flowers of the Painted Daisy (Chrysanthemum cinerariifolium). Pyrethrin (note the spelling) is a synthetic product that is even more toxic. Additionally, some Pyrethrum products on the market have PBO (piperonyl butoxide) added. PBO is a synthetic chemical that is known to affect liver function. So Pyrethrin and PBO products aren't on my list at all. NEEM is a natural product that I use regularly. It is labeled as a repellant of the Japanese Beetles you're worried about. It is a botanical insecticide extracted from the seed of the tropical NEEM tree from India. NEEM works by preventing molting, suppressing feeding or repelling the bugs depending on the insect. It does not harm humans, birds, plants, earthworms, or most beneficial insects and it is registered for use against a broad range of insects. NEEM is most effective against insects, which pass through all stages of metamorphosis eggs, larvae, and adults. Doug Rohde Bluebirds across Texas ... one nestbox at a time ----- Original Message ----- ...
From: "Bill Darnell" <bdarnel3@bellsouth.net> One word of caution about "natural" things: Ricin (sp?) is one of the deadliest poisons. It is refined from the castor bean. Bill TN > Dottie, ...
From: "Gilliam, Jay" <jay.gilliam@pioneer.com> You are so correct on that one, Bill. "Natural" or "organic" does not equal "safe". Ricin doesn't even need to be refined, castor bean seeds are very lethal by themselves if ingested (it even says so on the seed packet). Almost all of the toxins I work with are produced by fungi or bacteria (so they are natural products) but they are also all very harmful/lethal if ingested, inhaled, or contacted with skin/membranes. That's why I have to work at a high level of containment when working with them. As far as Neem oil, it is probably one of the safer botanicals to work with. The active chemical in Neem is called Azadirachtin. It appears fairly non-toxic (but hasn't been fully investigated) but there are some warnings listed for those (Dottie, ie.) who would like to use it: May cause eye irritation. Jay Gilliam -----Original Message----- ...
From: "BONNIE A. YEAGER" <dement@frognet.net> Read an interesting article on avian parasites at http://www.purplemartin.org/update/Parasites.html Fred Yeager,
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 14:43:21 -0700 (PDT) Hi Fred and all, >After martin nestlings fledge, these nest mites will crawl onto Fred I really want to thank you for this post and tell everyone about my experience just a couple of days ago when I was checking my nests. I had a House Sparrow(HOSP) nest that I had pinholed the eggs and the adult
HOSP have been sitting on these eggs for quite some time. I guess the wind blew the mites onto me when I pulled the nest out. We were on the 4 wheeler and my husband took me back to the house where I ran to the bathroom and threw my clothes in the bath tub and jumped in the shower. I kept thinking they were probably jumping off into my house and I was going to have to have it exterminated and I was probably going to have to have some kind of shot or something (if nothing else a shot of whiskey) IT WAS AWFUL!!! I won't go into anymore details. I'm much better now however after reading Fred's post I'm feeling that urge to ITCH again. For one thing I will not stand down wind again BUT how could I have removed the nest with out getting these mites on me??? In the article it says they will crawl onto anything that moves. Kerry in NE corner of Okla.
--- "BONNIE A. YEAGER" <dement@frognet.net> wrote:
From: "Stan, Apple Valley/St. Paul, MN [44.44N, -93.10W]" <stan1bb@frontiernet.net> Hello EveryBIRDie! Thought you'd be interested that Bluebirds, Tree Swallows, and Chickadees are listed on "Top 10 Insect-eating Birds" by National Wildlife Federation: http://www.nwf.org/nationalwildlife/article.cfm?articleId511&issueId43&passthroughhomepagePromo May you enjoy an insect-free summer! Stan
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 13:04:16 -0400 In monitoring my nestbox with the TRES nestlings (about 14 days old), I noticed that it seemed to be infested with hundreds of clover mites, climbing all over the exterior and interior of the box. I tried removing some of them by wiping a damp paper towel over the nestbox surfaces, but there remains quite a few. I'm curious, does anyone know if these mites pose a health threat to the birds? I know that it's not uncommon to have infestation problems in houses during certain times of the year, and from what I've read about clover mites, they're supposedly harmless to humans..... just not sure about the birds. The TRES nestlings appear to be healthy and unaffected by the mites. Anybody have any info on this? Any good way to eliminate the mites without harming the nestlings? Any info would be appreciated.
From: "Paula Ziebarth" <PaulaZ@columbus.rr.com> Paula Z. On the bluebird trail this year, all my tree swallow nests were absolutely overrun with very tiny mites. Mites were all over the boxes - in and out. I know many parasites are species specific. I lost quite a few tree swallow fledglings and an adult that died for no apparent reason this year. Could the mites have anything to do with mortality? None of the dead birds showed any signs of a struggle (pecking, etc.) and they do not spray any pesticides at the park. I did not see these mites in any of the eastern bluebird, house wren, or sparrow nests for that matter. BTW posted in plain text (HTML off) to help with mail volume.
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 21:59:01 -0400 Haleya Priest Amherst MA Dear Paula et al, I'd like to hear other's experiences, but on my trail I have had no deaths due to mites. I've had them in Phoebe's nests and the babies fledged fine. I've had infestations in Tree Swallow box and they did just fine. I've had small outbreaks quite a bit this year and even though it has been an awful year, I don't think I've lost any to mites. The main thing is not to spread them from box to box. I'd really have to clean my hands and arms to make sure of this. On the Phoebe nest - which after the first year of this I learned how to handle them (the nest on our house and near door!!!) was to use caged bird spray this is non-toxic. Take the nest out and the eggs/babies. Spray the box. Put in a new nest. Now I'd spray the new nest itself, but others might be against that. Then place eggs or babies back in. Do this a couple more times if you can.This should help. But if it is a small infestation I personally wouldn't do anything about it. Let us know what others say. :-) H Paula Z. Powell (central) Ohio On the bluebird trail this year, all my tree swallow nests were ... From: "Keith & Sandy Kridler" <kridler@1starnet.com> Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas Mites are spread from bird to bird by contact or sharing of the roost area. Swallows, House Sparrows and Starlings normally have more mites than Bluebirds will because these other birds use communal roosts and if one has mites they all tend to have them. Also birds who gather and use feathers will come into contact with the mites from these feathers. Ducks, Geese and chickens often have some mites. Mites in Purple martin colony are a serious problem and Bill Darnell can fill us in on their treatment methods as these birds nest side by side and use the box continuously for up to 5 months creating a situation where the mite population can explode. Most deaths are caused by the baby birds of any species dying when the mite population gets intolerable and the young leave the nest before they can fly. Normally for bluebirds the mites will not be bad enough that you need to treat them while the young birds are in the nestbox. As soon as the birds leave the nest they will control them by sun bathing, dust baths and taking water baths. If you feel you have excessive mites then I would treat as Haleya describes. KK
BTW posted in plain text (HTML off) to help with mail volume.
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