Problems with house sparrows on the bluebird trail

Predator Identification
Distinguishing between Attacks by HOSPs and Other Predators

See also the Predator Diagnosis webpage

Also see other HOSP information under Passive Control, Active Control, Philosophy, Lime, General, Disposal, etc.

In addition to Messages that have appeared in the Bluebird Mailing Lists on this topic, the following are on the Audubon Society of Omaha website: 

• Minimum diameter for House Sparrow entry by Frank Navratil
• House Sparrows by Steve Eno
• The Active and Passive Bluebirders by Bluebird Bob Walshaw and Jim McLochlin

Greetings all from Wendy Guglieri in sunny Rescue, California:

While sitting outside having coffee and enjoying watching my WEstern BLuebirds busily building their nest at the end of the drive, a small white object dropped out of the oak tree over the drive. It was a bird egg - completely white and about 1 1/4" long. Perhaps a brown towhee?  It had been well pecked out on one side and the contents were completely gone, although it must have just happened. the interior of the egg was quite wet.

So my question: Who did this? A HOuse SParrow? (For the first time in 4 years here, I've seen a pair of HOSPs here daily.) I thought they only attacked cavity nesters.

Thanks for your input. wg

Yes, I watched house sparrows attack a kingbird nest last summer and destroy the eggs. The nest was too high up for me to get to in a hurry, and I was afraid to shoot because I might hit a kingbird. I felt very helpless. The kingbirds put a new bottom in the nest and laid new eggs. But a good many birds--blackbirds, grackles, jays, house wrens, starlings--might peck holes in the eggs. Chipmunks or squirrels might also be the culprits, since the insides were missing. I've only seen house sparrows destroy eggs, not eat them.

Linda
SE Wyoming Grasslands, USA
ljand"at"vcn.com

... 

Hi Wendy: totally a guess but sounds more like an attack by a Scrub Jay. I haven't researched what would have a 1.25 inch white egg--that's pretty big.

Hatch

... 

Wendy, et al,

Was the hole in the egg, by any chance, large enough for a chick to have made his exit from it, - a chick who is at this moment safely up in the tree with his nestmates? Chicks often get out of their eggs through astonishingly small apertures. Or could some nest-robber have lugged it from somewhere else and eaten the contents at his leisure? The nest-robbers I've been able to watch in action, Corvids mostly, have all carried the eggs off and slurped the contents at some remove from the nest.

Bruce Burdett, Sunapee NH blueburd"at"srnet.com

Note: The masculine pronouns I have used in this post were employed in the perfectly proper neuter sense, and should NOT be interpreted as having any sexist connotation. This "him/her" and "he/she" ploy I have always found mildly annoying.

Greetings all.

Thanks to everyone who has ventured opinions about the pecked (and empty) white eggshell that I found. Those of you who suggested jay were right. Yesterday afternoon I actually saw a Scrub Jay fly into a tree near me with another of those eggs in his mouth! He sat on the branch and pecked at it; must have eaten whatever was inside, then just dropped it to the ground. Same type of egg. It's actually 1 1/4 - 1 1/2" long, pure white. I'm assuming a brown towhee, but certainly could be wrong.

It's reported to be reaching a high of 80 degrees in Sacramento today (we're slightly cooler in the foothills),and a bit windy. Beautiful...

Wendy Guglieri
Rescue, California
wendyg"at"jps.net

I've been watching a pair of Tree Swallows during their nestbox selection  process.

They've been around for a month and finally selected one of my nestboxes 75 ft from my kitchen window. Just a few days ago, I peeked in and saw five tiny eggs!! A day or two later, I peeked again....the female TRES sat tight on the nest and didn't fly off.

Today, I peeked again and was dismayed to find that none of the eggs could be found. (I found a portion of a shell 60 feet from the box??) HOSP has been around and have apparently chosen a nearby box (35 feet away) for their nest. Would the HOSP remove these eggs..?? There have been on wrens around this year. Gr-r-r-r!!

It is my practice to allow the HOSP to nest in a couple of my boxes. As they produce eggs, I remove them, one at a time, and place the egg in a glass of ice cubes and water for an hour. I then mark them and replace the chilled eggs. The female will usually incubate them for 3 to 4 weeks and then give up.

Any ideas as to what may have happened to my TRES eggs..?

Bruce, near Detroit

Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 21:41:39 -0500
From: "R_C Walshaw" walshaw"at"gte.net
To: "Bluebird Listserve" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Maymard/dead birds

Maynard reported dead birds in the nestbox. I realize that problems like these are different in different areas, but as I don't have to contend with house wrens here whenever I find dead adults and/or young it is always the work of house sparrows. Bluebird Bob, Northeast Oklahoma.

Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 03:37:17 GMT
From: Jess jessb"at"afo.net
To: Bluebird-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Fwd: Comments

Can anyone help this person? Send mail to: rlcar"at"gateway.net

I figured it was house sparrows and the empty skeleton was due to ants after it was dead.

____________________________________________________________________________

Email: rlcar"at"gateway.net
FirstName: Lisa

Message

We have two bluebird boxes and have had much success, until this year. We have fornd a mother bluebird dead onher nest with her eggs stil under her; something had eaten all but her head and body cavity. Today I found another bluebird dead on the ground outside of the box. Just it's head was missing. Please let me knnnnow what is happening. We live in southern Ohio.

I have just checked some boxes and think that on of them has a tree swallow nest. The nest is almost like a bower and has lots of feathers in it. The eggs are sort of gray with what look to me like rust or brown markings all over them. The color of the eggs are what is confusing to me as the book I have states that the eggs are white or cream with dark markings on them. Do you think this is a tree swallow nest?

Thank You
Norma Zier
Indep Mo.

Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 12:45:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: Koby Prater koby_2004"at"iwon.com
To: karon"at"discoverynet.com, BLUEBIRD-L"at"CORNELL.EDU
Subject: RE: help on nest id

Norma,
This sounds a heck of alot like A House Sparrow nest. The best way to tell the identity of this nest is to see who tends to it. First look up the House Sparrow in your field guide, and then look to see if that is it. If it is then do the following. Trust me if you want Bluebirds, you don't want House Sparrows. House Sparrows are vicious killers of our native cavity nesting birds. They are so low that they'll kill Bluebirds, Tree Swallows, Chickadees, and whatever else, and they're babies, or puncture their eggs, and then build their nest over the dead bodies, and have their own young. Please don't let this happen. If you let them have their own young, this creates more vicious killers. The best thing to do is to trap and eliminate these, non native originally from Europe, birds. If you would like more infor on these "flying rats" and their behavior and hideous ways please contact me for more. I am sure you'll get more info on this from others.

Happy Bluebirding to all,
Koby Prater
Seneca, MO (SW corner of MO)

Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 14:25:48 -0400
From: "Bruce Burdett" blueburd"at"srnet.com
To: karon"at"discoverynet.com, BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: help on nest id

Norma: All the Tree Swallow eggs I've seen have been pure white with no markings of any kind. What you describe, I'm sorry to say, sounds like a
house sparrow, especially your use of the word "bower". These nests often have woven canopies over them, and the entrance is more from the side than from the top. They also will sometimes use some GREEN grass mixed in with the dry, plus some trashy stuff, including feathers and paper. The eggs can vary a lot in color, but generally they are as you described them. House sparrow experts please correct me if I'm wrong.

Bruce BurdettNH blueburd"at"srnet.com

...

Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 14:31:13 -0400
From: "Bruce Burdett" blueburd"at"srnet.com
To: karon"at"discoverynet.com, BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: help on nest id

Norma: - I should also add that if they are house sparrows, you should exterminate them in the quickest and most humane way you can think of. They're nothing but bad news.

Bruce Burdett, NH

...

Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 15:03:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: Barry Whitney barryw"at"therock.mcg.edu
To: karon"at"discoverynet.com
Cc: BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: HOSP egg photo Re: help on nest id

...

There is a photo and egg description at
http://www.pma.edmonton.ab.ca/vexhibit/eggs/vexeggs/passer/hsparr.htm

Other HOSP info
http://www.crosswinds.net/~barryw/bluebird/hosp.htm
&
THE GUIDE HOUSE SPARROWS & CONTROL

North American Bluebird Society (NABS)
http://www.nabluebirdsociety.org/sparrow.htm

Photo and sound bite
http://www.mbr.nbs.gov/id/framlst/i6882id.html

Drawing of male and female
http://www.pclink.com/rlovgren/nature9p.htm

House Sparrow Control, The Huber Trap ~~ Joe Huber
http://community.webtv.net/hubertrap/HOUSESPARROWCONTROL

HOSP control ~~ Ed Nied, Jr.
http://members.tripod.com/~herper/housesparrow.html

House Sparrow ID and Control ~~ Barry Whitney
http://www.crosswinds.net/~barryw/bluebird/hosp.htm

Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 14:44:33 -0500
From: Carolyn Hall cjhall"at"huntel.net
To: BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: help on nest id

karon"at"discoverynet.com
Norma Zier,
You have a wren nest. When you day "bower" is it made of grass or sticks. Definately sticks are a wren nest BUT I have had a wren's nest made entirely of hay and it was a "bower".
Carolyn Hall, Bassett, NE

Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 14:26:48 -0400
From: "Karen Deeds-Jarvie" deeds"at"bghost.net
To: Bluebird-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Unusual HOSP death???

Hi everyone,

Had something unusual happen and wanted to get your feedback. As you know, we have HOSP problems here. But luckily those that we haven't caught are totally caught up in holding and keeping our decoy Peterson box. After we eliminated the first male rogue, we've had various attempts by other males to hold the box, but they give up and move on pretty quickly. The box was vacant for about a week, when one day we saw three female sparrows making an attempt to nest there. At least there was a lot of activity. Then they were gone, and a male or various males took over for a few days. Today we decided to check the box for nest activity and much to our surprise found a dead female sparrow. She was nearly decapitated from the azzzult! It was really an awful sight, not because it was a HOSP but because it shows how viciously sparrows can attack even one of their own. At least that's our guess. But why would they attack a desirable female sparrow? Have any of you ever seen such a thing? It seemed odd to us.

Also, we wondered, how do baby bluebirds get water? My husband said, "The parents probably bring it to them." I figured it was in the food itself. Still, you'd think they'd dehydrate without liquid in their diet. Does anyone know?

Karen :-)

B.G., Ohio

P.S. We're past the twelve day mark now. Batman and Robyn are feeding like crazy. Batman, we've noticed, rarely removes poop sacks from the nest. The two times he has done it, he only went as far as our garage roof, where he dropped them. Typical man!

Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:18:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: Koby Prater koby_2004"at"iwon.com
To: BLUEBIRD-L"at"CORNELL.EDU
Subject: Terrible Tragedy! :(

Hello all,

This morning at about 8:30 I went outside to watch "my" Bluebirds. After a minute or so, daddy flew up with food. He peeked inside the box, and immediately jerked his head out and flew off to a nearby branch. Then momma flew up and went inside, she came back out shortly. I knew something was up so I went and looked. The nestcup was empty. I took out the nest and looked down on in it and saw 1 baby, it was dead, and had small ants on it. I took it out and put it in my hand saw another baby buried in the nest material. It was also dead. I am thinking a snake as no nest material was disturbed, but why would a snake kill 2 and not eat them. There was supposed to be 4 healthy 2 day olds in their. I also thought maybe a BlueJay but there is a Noel guard on that even a starling can't fit in. I am a big mess right now. This box is on a 4X4 wooden post. I had no idea that snakes could get around a Noel Guard. I had never heard of that. I was going to put a PVC guard on and change the post to EMT conduit at the end of the season. I guess I waited way to late. What gets me is that the parents came and looked like it just happened. It could have happened from 4:30 to dark last night or early this morning. I don't know. Well I am hoping the Bluebirds will find somewhere else to nest. There are about 3 possible nest boxes besides mine. As soon as I get back from vacation I will be upgrading my mounting and protection ways. This will be my last post before I leave, so fare well, and I hope you guys and gals have a better day than me. I will read all posts up to about 6:00 this evening.

Thanks for your support,
Koby Prater
Seneca, MO (SW corner of MO)

Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:35:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: Koby Prater koby_2004"at"iwon.com
To: BLUEBIRD-L"at"CORNELL.EDU
Subject: Culprit Found. :(

Hello again all,

I just found the culprit about 20 yards away. If it was the culprit it is a 3 feet long garter snake. Of course you all know what I did beacause I am as mad as possible right now, and I don't wanna hear any lectures about killing snakes. I have my right to kill snakes. These snakes can't kill and digest a mouse. These snakes kill our friendly little toads, and frogs, and I could care less if they take care of that population. I know it is wrong, but when they go this far it will happen to them. Sorry but that is how people around hear deal with snakes.

Koby Prater

Seneca, MO (SW corner of MO)

Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:42:36 -0400
From: "Bruce Burdett" blueburd"at"srnet.com
To: koby_2004"at"iwon.com, BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Terrible Tragedy! :(

Koby,

Had it been a snake, I'm pretty sure he would have eaten everything in sight.

The 4"x4", I think, is not a good idea. I'm partial to 3/4" or 1" galvanized pipe. I've never used the PVC, so I can't speak to that. Your culprit could have been any number of things. Your next best move, I'd say, is to provide maximum anti-predator contraptions in the future, of every kind you can think of. Could your LOCAL bluebirders be of any help? They must know the local varmints

Bruce Burdett, NH blueburd"at"srnet.com

...

Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 16:48:50 -0400
From: "Randy Jones" randyj"at"enter.net
To: koby_2004"at"iwon.com
Cc: "Bluebird Listserve" bluebird-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Terrible Tragedy! :(

Oh, Koby, I know how disheartening this is! I deeply sympathize with you. You have learned the hard way that wooden posts just are deadly to the bluebirds, and that (apparently) snakes can handle the Noel guard with ease.

You won't be discouraged though. I'm sure you will work hard to make your boxes as safe for your bluebirds as you can next year, and I'm also sure they will come back to some of your boxes.

Randy Jones
Allentown PA
randyj"at"enter.net

PS: I have PVC hanging predator guards on all my steel posts, and I never stop worrying!

Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 22:47:55 -0500
From: "Bob Walshaw" robert.walshaw"at"gte.net
To: "Bluebird Listserve" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Koby - dead birds

This sounds more like a house sparrow attack. Snakes don't leave food. Were the heads pecked? Sorry to hear the bad news. This sort of thing is always tough, and trapping and eliminating the house sparrow only keeps it to a minimum as we can never get all of them. Bluebird Bob.

From: "Nancy Bubb" bubbent"at"mixi.net
Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 07:42:29 -0500
Subject: RE: [bluebird] Cavity Blues!!!!!
Reply-To: bluebird"at"fsinc.com

Harlan IN -- near Fort Wayne (northeast corner of Indiana)

Update on previous Message (below): I noticed bluebirds appear to have vacated their nest and are interested in another box just over 100 feet away. This 2nd house has what I think is a sparrow's nest in it (monofilament line not working here anymore). I really don't know how to ID a sparrow's nest-- this nest is small, looks ready for eggs and has a few very small white feathers here and there inside it. The original house w/EABL nest is now being investigated by a male sparrow (monofilament line stopped working here too). I looked at the EABL nest inside the first box and discovered that the inside, rounded out part of the nest was messed up-- probably by the sparrow. A swap of boxes for now. No eggs in either yet. I'll keep you posted. Glad I have several boxes available on our property. Hopefully one will serve as a permanent nest box for the bluebirds.

Nancy Bubb
Harlan Indiana

-----Original Message-----

From: bluebird-owner"at"fsinc.com [mailto:bluebird-owner"at"fsinc.com]On Behalf Of Fawzi P. Emad
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2001 4:48 PM
To: bluebird"at"fsinc.com
Subject: Re: [bluebird] Cavity Blues!!!!!

Nancy and all, please let us know where you are located. This way we can tell which birds are doing what and where... Thanks,

Fawzi from MD

----- Original Message -----

From: "Nancy Bubb" bubbent"at"mixi.net
To: bluebird"at"fsinc.com
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2001 3:04 PM
Subject: RE: [bluebird] Cavity Blues!!!!!

Six EABLs throughout winter... now down to two (a pair). They just completed
a nest (hoping for 1st egg soon) in a box only 30 feet from our house where
several seed feeders and heated bath are and where they fed all winter long
with other birds. Box entrance faces east, toward the house. Six other boxes
on our property, all further from house with no sign of bluebirds or others.

On another note re: 12 gauge monofilament line-- placed 2 vertical, taut
lines on both sides of the front of all 7 boxes. Seems to have deterred HOSP
so far. I've seen a house finch sit on a house but never pay attention to
the entrance. These strings never phased the EABLs. So far, so good.

Nancy Bubb
P:219/632-4369
F:219/632-9018
bubbent"at"mixi.net

Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 09:20:21 -0400
From: Haleya Priest mablue"at"gis.net
Subject: Re: [bluebird] Cavity Blues!!!!!
Reply-To: bluebird"at"fsinc.com

Hi Nancy,

Yes, it sounds like the house sparrow (HOSP) may have gotten to the bluebird (EABL) nest. I would watch that box to see who goes in and out. I believe you might have something other than a HOSP nest in the other box. HOSP nests are usually large, messy and often with a canopy over top. They don't have any order to their nest and often use a variety of things including garbage, larger longer pieces of weeds, etc. It often seems like a big heap of stuff.

Others may have other thoughts but what you describe actually sounds like either a EABL nest or a tree swallow (TRES) or perhaps some other cavity nester nest. I would watch carefully to see who goes in and out of the box. As the grandfather of the monofilament lines says, these are only temporary solutions to the HOSP problem. They become used to the lines and then go for the box anyway. You may need to consider the next line of action: trapping. Here's great links to the information you'll be looking for. I also recommend purchasing a book or two on bluebirds - Dorene Scriven's is especially helpful and you will find her book on the Bluebird REFERENCE GUIDE under favorite books. The BEST OF listed below will have incredible info on discussions about all aspects of dealing with HOSP control. Also Joe Huber's web site: http://community.webtv.net/hubertrap/HOUSESPARROWCONTROL http://community.webtv.net/hubertrap/RoostingBluebirds

You'll find all your bluebirding resources (including newbie info) in

the Bluebird Reference Guide "at":
http://www.bluebird.htmlplanet.com or
http://www.crosswinds.net/~bluebirdguide/

AND:

The Best of Bluebird-L:

http://audubon-omaha.org/bbbox/bestofbbml/bblindx.htm

http://community.webtv.net/hubertrap/HOUSESPARROWCONTROL

http://community.webtv.net/hubertrap/RoostingBluebirds

Nancy Bubb wrote:

Harlan IN -- near Fort Wayne (northeast corner of Indiana)
Update on previous Message (below): I noticed bluebirds appear to have
vacated their nest and are interested in another box just over 100 feet
away. This 2nd house has what I think is a sparrow's nest in it
(monofilament line not working here anymore). I really don't know how to ID
a sparrow's nest-- this nest is small, looks ready for eggs and has a few
very small white feathers here and there inside it. The original house
w/EABL nest is now being investigated by a male sparrow (monofilament line
stopped working here too). I looked at the EABL nest inside the first box
and discovered that the inside, rounded out part of the nest was messed up--
probably by the sparrow. A swap of boxes for now. No eggs in either yet.
I'll keep you posted. Glad I have several boxes available on our property.
Hopefully one will serve as a permanent nest box for the bluebirds.

Nancy Bubb
Harlan Indiana

-----Original Message-----
From: bluebird-owner"at"fsinc.com [mailto:bluebird-owner"at"fsinc.com]On
Behalf Of Fawzi P. Emad
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2001 4:48 PM
To: bluebird"at"fsinc.com
Subject: Re: [bluebird] Cavity Blues!!!!!

Nancy and all, please let us know where you are located. This way we can
tell which birds are doing what and where... Thanks,

Fawzi from MD

----- Original Message -----
From: "Nancy Bubb" bubbent"at"mixi.net
To: bluebird"at"fsinc.com
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2001 3:04 PM
Subject: RE: [bluebird] Cavity Blues!!!!!

Six EABLs throughout winter... now down to two (a pair). They just
completed
a nest (hoping for 1st egg soon) in a box only 30 feet from our house
where
several seed feeders and heated bath are and where they fed all winter
long
with other birds. Box entrance faces east, toward the house. Six other
boxes
on our property, all further from house with no sign of bluebirds or
others.

On another note re: 12 gauge monofilament line-- placed 2 vertical, taut
lines on both sides of the front of all 7 boxes. Seems to have deterred
HOSP
so far. I've seen a house finch sit on a house but never pay attention to
the entrance. These strings never phased the EABLs. So far, so good.

Nancy Bubb
P:219/632-4369
F:219/632-9018
bubbent"at"mixi.net

From: "Nancy Bubb" bubbent"at"mixi.net
Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 10:32:01 -0500
Subject: RE: [bluebird] Cavity Blues!!!!!
Reply-To: bluebird"at"fsinc.com

Just saw the female EABL enter the 2nd box with a mouthful of nest material. And yes, HOSP have taken over, going inside box #1. Should I remove the original BB nest from the box that the HOSP have taken over? FYI: my husband attempted to shoot the HOSP off of box #1 from our house porch but unfortunately discovered his pellets only travel a distance of approx 15'. I encouraged him to try again (we live rural). Thanks for the suggested reading and websites re: bluebirds and other ideas for HOSP control. I'll follow through on these.

Nancy Bubb
Harlan, Indiana

-----Original Message-----

From: bluebird-owner"at"fsinc.com [mailto:bluebird-owner"at"fsinc.com]On Behalf Of Haleya Priest
Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2001 8:20 AM
To: bluebird"at"fsinc.com
Subject: Re: [bluebird] Cavity Blues!!!!!

...

Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 10:14:18 -0600
From: mybuffy mybuffy"at"primary.net
Subject: [bluebird] First Sighting of Yr.
Reply-To: bluebird"at"fsinc.com

I just saw my first bluebird of the year. I have been watching, till now, to no avail. I casually looked out my back window and saw the familiar red breast. He was low to the ground, flitting here and there (most probably a female in his view). I got my mealworms from the fridge, gave out a whistle, and as I was putting them in the feeder, the male EABL flew to my birdhouse to check it out. I scared him away; but I know he will be back. I am hanging my second nestbox this weekend!

SPRING IS HERE!!!!

Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 12:51:53 -0400
From: Haleya Priest mablue"at"gis.net
Subject: Re: [bluebird] Cavity Blues!!!!!
Reply-To: bluebird"at"fsinc.com

HI Nancy - It is a toss up whether to remove the nest or not. But I wouldn't stress to much over it. The main thing is to kill or get the HOSP out of your yard. Advantages to removing the nest are that if the nest isn't too messed up you can save it for an emergency later on down the road. Also, it means the HOSP have to work harder to make a full nest. Disadvantages are that it might be good to keep the HOSP thinking they've done this really nasty thing by taking over the box. I know it sounds a little silly, but they can be so unpredictable, it might be good to leave well enough alone just in case once you remove the nest they think, "gees, this is boring - the box is empty - let's go get the box they are in now." Keeping the nest in the box might prevent the competitive hormones from arising.

If your husband is willing to use a gun, boy I would focus on that. Can he set up a blind? You can move the nest box a few feet toward your house every few hours until you are close enough to get a good shot. Or else invest in a shot gun - because truth is you might need it down the road to avert these problems! OR the other thing would be to put up an additional box near to your house and see if the HOSP get attracted to that and then use your air gun....   If you are absolutely sure the HOSP have taken over here are some ideas of what to do. Again, others will have different ideas to add to the pot. You must be CERTAIN no bluebirds are coming to the box. Buy some mouse sticky paper at your grocery or hardware store. Put a whole piece of it in the box that the HOSP have taken over. This MUST be while you can watch the box 100% of the time and ready to bolt toward the box if a bluebird comes near it.   When the HOSP goes into the box they'll get stuck on the mouse paper. Place the HOSP and sticky paper in a plastic bag and whap it extremely hard against a cement or brick surface. This will kill it almost instantly. Again, you have to make sure to get the male as if his mate is killed, he'll still stay at the box and call in a new mate. (Tis ok to get the female - just that the male is the focus for HOSP control).

Hope this helps and keep us posted and keep asking questions! :-) H

Nancy Bubb wrote:

Just saw the female EABL enter the 2nd box with a mouthful of nest material.

...

From: "Wright, Merlin C." mcwrigh"at"nppd.com
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 12:14:35 -0500
Subject: RE: [bluebird] Cavity Blues!!!!!
Reply-To: bluebird"at"fsinc.com

From your description, the nest with a few small white feathers sounds like some of the bluebird nests I have seen. A house sparrow nest 'always' has lots of feathers and has grasses that stick up and flop over the top and usually contain seeds in a few heads that hang down 'for a snack perhaps?'.

-----Original Message-----
From: Nancy Bubb [mailto:bubbent"at"mixi.net]
Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2001 6:42 AM
To: bluebird"at"fsinc.com
Subject: RE: [bluebird] Cavity Blues!!!!!

Harlan IN -- near Fort Wayne (northeast corner of Indiana) Update on previous Message (below): I noticed bluebirds appear to have vacated their nest and are interested in another box just over 100 feet away. This 2nd house has what I think is a sparrow's nest in it (monofilament line not working here anymore). I really don't know how to ID a sparrow's nest-- this nest is small, looks ready for eggs and has a few very small white feathers here and there inside it. The original house w/EABL nest is now being investigated by a male sparrow (monofilament line stopped working here too). I looked at the EABL nest inside the first box and discovered that the inside, rounded out part of the nest was messed up-- probably by the sparrow. A swap of boxes for now. No eggs in either yet. I'll keep you posted. Glad I have several boxes available on our property. Hopefully one will serve as a permanent nest box for the bluebirds.

Nancy Bubb
Harlan Indiana

-----Original Message-----
From: bluebird-owner"at"fsinc.com [mailto:bluebird-owner"at"fsinc.com]On
Behalf Of Fawzi P. Emad
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2001 4:48 PM
To: bluebird"at"fsinc.com
Subject: Re: [bluebird] Cavity Blues!!!!!

Nancy and all, please let us know where you are located. This way we can tell which birds are doing what and where... Thanks,

Fawzi from MD

----- Original Message -----
From: "Nancy Bubb" bubbent"at"mixi.net
To: bluebird"at"fsinc.com
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2001 3:04 PM
Subject: RE: [bluebird] Cavity Blues!!!!!

Six EABLs throughout winter... now down to two (a pair). They just completed
a nest (hoping for 1st egg soon) in a box only 30 feet from our house where
several seed feeders and heated bath are and where they fed all winter long
with other birds. Box entrance faces east, toward the house. Six other boxes
on our property, all further from house with no sign of bluebirds or others.

On another note re: 12 gauge monofilament line-- placed 2 vertical, taut
lines on both sides of the front of all 7 boxes. Seems to have deterred HOSP
so far. I've seen a house finch sit on a house but never pay attention to
the entrance. These strings never phased the EABLs. So far, so good.

Nancy Bubb
P:219/632-4369
F:219/632-9018
bubbent"at"mixi.net

From: "Nancy Bubb" bubbent"at"mixi.net
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 18:43:16 -0500
Subject: RE: [bluebird] Cavity Blues!!!!!
Reply-To: bluebird"at"fsinc.com

Harlan IN
Thanks, Merlin. You're right. It's a bluebird nest. I've seen the female bring nesting material to the box. Glad they're persistent and building a new nest.

Nancy Bubb
P:219/632-4369
F:219/632-9018
bubbent"at"mixi.net

-----Original Message-----
From: bluebird-owner"at"fsinc.com [mailto:bluebird-owner"at"fsinc.com]On
Behalf Of Wright, Merlin C.
Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 12:15 PM
To: 'bluebird"at"fsinc.com'
Subject: RE: [bluebird] Cavity Blues!!!!!

From your description, the nest with a few small white feathers sounds like some of the bluebird nests I have seen. A house sparrow nest 'always' has lots of feathers and has grasses that stick up and flop over the top and usually contain seeds in a few heads that hang down 'for a snack perhaps?'.

-----Original Message-----
From: Nancy Bubb [mailto:bubbent"at"mixi.net]
Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2001 6:42 AM
To: bluebird"at"fsinc.com
Subject: RE: [bluebird] Cavity Blues!!!!!

Harlan IN -- near Fort Wayne (northeast corner of Indiana) Update on previous Message (below): I noticed bluebirds appear to have vacated their nest and are interested in another box just over 100 feet away. This 2nd house has what I think is a sparrow's nest in it (monofilament line not working here anymore). I really don't know how to ID a sparrow's nest-- this nest is small, looks ready for eggs and has a few very small white feathers here and there inside it. The original house w/EABL nest is now being investigated by a male sparrow (monofilament line stopped working here too). I looked at the EABL nest inside the first box and discovered that the inside, rounded out part of the nest was messed up-- probably by the sparrow. A swap of boxes for now. No eggs in either yet. I'll keep you posted. Glad I have several boxes available on our property. Hopefully one will serve as a permanent nest box for the bluebirds.

Nancy Bubb
Harlan Indiana

-----Original Message-----
From: bluebird-owner"at"fsinc.com [mailto:bluebird-owner"at"fsinc.com]On
Behalf Of Fawzi P. Emad
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2001 4:48 PM
To: bluebird"at"fsinc.com
Subject: Re: [bluebird] Cavity Blues!!!!!

Nancy and all, please let us know where you are located. This way we can tell which birds are doing what and where... Thanks,

Fawzi from MD

----- Original Message -----
From: "Nancy Bubb" bubbent"at"mixi.net
To: bluebird"at"fsinc.com
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2001 3:04 PM
Subject: RE: [bluebird] Cavity Blues!!!!!

Six EABLs throughout winter... now down to two (a pair). They just completed
a nest (hoping for 1st egg soon) in a box only 30 feet from our house where
several seed feeders and heated bath are and where they fed all winter long
with other birds. Box entrance faces east, toward the house. Six other boxes
on our property, all further from house with no sign of bluebirds or others.

On another note re: 12 gauge monofilament line-- placed 2 vertical, taut
lines on both sides of the front of all 7 boxes. Seems to have deterred HOSP
so far. I've seen a house finch sit on a house but never pay attention to
the entrance. These strings never phased the EABLs. So far, so good.

Nancy Bubb
P:219/632-4369
F:219/632-9018
bubbent"at"mixi.net

Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 18:06:19 EDT
From: SHbirder"at"aol.com
To: eorntig"at"acd.net, BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu, IWard"at"pmai.org
Subject: Egg gone! :(

Sherry Hunter, Byron Center, MI

I just checked my nestbox where there was a blue Eastern Bluebird egg that  was laid yesterday , April 19th. I was expecting to see egg #2 but instead I  found ZERO eggs.

Here is what I think happened. I was seeing a HOSP sitting on the box and hanging on the entrance hole today in the rain. I went and chased him away several times. I really think the HOSP ate the eggs! because there is no evidence of any disturbance to the nest and no eggs outside on the ground anywhere! And as I watched out the window this evening there are no HOSP that are trying to take over the two boxes? But as soon as the BB's come around the HOSP are there by the nestboxes and Mr. BB chases them away. :(

What does everyone think of the idea that maybe the HOSP eat the bluebird eggs whole and that is why eggs that are missing have no evidence of disturbance to the nest?

Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 22:47:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: hubertrap"at"webtv.net (Joe Huber)
To: SHbirder"at"aol.com, BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Egg gone! :(

Hi Sherry, It seems very likely that the House sparrow is responsible for the missing egg, but I suspect he took it out of the box and dropped it. May be hard to locate the remains of the egg. Now is the time to plan a method of sparrow control to prevent worse damage in the future.

Joe Huber Venice Fl.

Charter member NABS, Charter member OBS, Life member OBS Joe Huber
hubertrap"at"webtv.net 

http://community.webtv.net/hubertrap/HOUSESPARROWCONTROL 

http://community.webtv.net/hubertrap/RoostingBluebirds 

Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 09:21:56 -0500
From: "Pauline Tom" bluebirds"at"austin.rr.com
To: "BLUEBIRD-L" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Do HOSP remove entire nest?

Pauline Tom
Mountain City (no mountains) TX
South Central Texas
GORGEOUS day

A Bewick's Wren nest that had 4 hatchlings and 4 hatching eggs one week ago is missing from a PVC house mounted on 10' conduit. In its place is a complete House Sparrow nest.

I've seen House Sparrow nests on top of another species' nest. Do they also have history of removing the entire nest from the cavity?

Nearby is a PVC nest box with 3 newly hatched Eastern Bluebirds. I'm trying the "pairing" concept - leaving the HOSP nest in hopes that the sparrow does not destroy the bluebirds. I'll take preventative measures to ensure no HOSP leave the nest.

Thanks!

From: "Marian Coiley" mcoiley"at"triad.rr.com
To: BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu (BLUEBIRD-L)
Subject: Bluebird house problem
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 23:31:34 -0400

I'm hoping someone can help with this question. We have a bluebird  house on a post about 5 feet off the ground, about 6 feet from our house in an area with feeders and a birdbath. The bluebird hole had a  predator guard on it which was partially missing (from a year or two  before). There was a nest of baby bluebirds in it and we enjoyed  listening to them each time they were fed. Then after they were perhaps 2 weeks old, we noticed another bird on top of the bluebird house and  the birds inside were dead. I'm not sure if a bird did this. We don't often see stray cats and never have seen them in this area and have never seen racoons around. Any suggestions?

Marian

From: hubertrap"at"webtv.net (Joe Huber)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 08:34:13 -0400 (EDT)
To: mcoiley"at"triad.rr.com, BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu (BLUEBIRD-L)
Subject: Re: Bluebird house problem

HI Marian, Since the Racoon or a cat generally pulls nesting material out the entrance hole, you can just about rule them out on this case. With dead babies in the nest and another bird on top the box it sounds like house sparrow trouble. They kill the babies and nest looks ok. With dead babies the adult Bluebirds will leave. Check the young Bluebirds for signs of pecking about their heads. This nest is finished with dead babies, so remove contents of box. TO late this year for another nesting. You need to learn to identify other birds in case there are future problems. You have all winter to decide on a method of prevention against the HOSP. Read all the information you can find to help you decide what method you want to try. Being aware of the problem is the first step in finding a solution that suits you. This is not a happy way to end the season but HOSP can do that. Hope you have better luck next year. Be sure to try something because the HOSP will return. Best Wishes Joe Huber Venice Fl.

Charter member NABS, Charter member OBS, Life member OBS Joe Huber hubertrap"at"webtv.net

http://community.webtv.net/hubertrap/HOUSESPARROWCONTROL
http://community.webtv.net/hubertrap/RoostingBluebirds

27.1171494 N Lo -82.4124222 W

From: KCBSP"at"aol.com
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 12:23:17 EDT
Subject: Re: BLUEBIRD-L digest 985
To: BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu (BLUEBIRD-L)

In a Message dated 9/30/2001 12:15:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time, BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu writes:

I'm hoping someone can help with this question. We have a bluebird
house
on a post about 5 feet off the ground, about 6 feet from our house in an
area with feeders and a birdbath. The bluebird hole had a predator guard
on it which was partially missing (from a year or two before). There was
a nest of baby bluebirds in it and we enjoyed listening to them each time
they were fed. Then after they were perhaps 2 weeks old, we noticed
another bird on top of the bluebird house and the birds inside were dead.
I'm not sure if a bird did this. We don't = often see stray cats and
never have seen them in this area and have never seen racoons around.

Kathy Clark, New Cumberland, PA

Were the baby birds heads pecked? Was the bird brown with a black bib? This bird is called a English House Sparrow. They will kill the bluebirds and other birds that use your nest box. Familiarize yourself with the different birds that use the nest boxes, and if you have seen the House Sparrow on your box (HOSP) they will keep returning. They are not a native species and a nuisance. Please let us know if the baby birds were pecked.

Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 16:20:20 -0800
From: Linda Violett lviolett"at"earthlink.net
To: "Bluebird-L"at"cornell.edu" (BLUEBIRD-L) Bluebird-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: fighting bluebirds

Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif.

For those who have actually witnessed sparrows make an attack or attempt a nestbox takeover, can you describe exactly what occurred? Any little details might provide us with clues. What events led up to the attack as well as the actual attack and timing.

On nestbox takeovers, do sparrows simply pester the bluebirds away?
During killing attacks, does one sparrow (male?) sit in the hole and block the exit before leaping in for the kill? Or do both the female and male synchronize their efforts in a takeover or an attack? Do both bluebirds of a pair try to defend the box? Do bluebirds seem weaker than sparrows or does it appear bluebirds just give up the fight more easily?

"Pauline, Mountain City TX" wrote:
I
recently watched a bluebird on a nestbox attacked by a house sparrow
and a mockingbird. ...

Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 16:46:15 -0800
From: Linda Violett lviolett"at"earthlink.net
To: "Bluebird-L"at"cornell.edu" (BLUEBIRD-L) Bluebird-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: PS: fighting bluebirds

Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif.

PS: For those with info on sparrow attacks and nestbox takeovers . . . I'm not interested in sparrows attacking nestlings or eggs. I'm looking for details on adult sparrow vs. adult bluebird behaviors.

"Pauline, Mountain City TX" wrote:

I
recently watched a bluebird on a nestbox attacked by a house sparrow

Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 21:07:31 -0500
From: Pamela Ford jpford"at"comcast.net
Subject: RE: fighting bluebirds
To: lviolett"at"earthlink.net, Bluebird-L"at"cornell.edu (BLUEBIRD-L)

Linda,
While I have lost a nesting female bluebird to what appeared to be a house sparrow attack I didn't personally witness the killing. I have, however, witnessed many (at least 30) battles where a house sparrows tries to take over a nestbox. What I have seen has always been initiated by the male house sparrow. He will try to land on the bluebird's nestbox and the two male birds end up in a physical tangle, many times rolling on the grass, holding on with the claws and pecking at each other. It's been surprising to me that the smaller house sparrow almost always comes out on top. The male bluebird usually flies off a ways after two or three rounds with the sparrow, but returns to fight again. Until he does, the male house sparrow sings an enthusiatic song from the top of the nestbox (is it a victory song?). I have seen the females of both species occasionally join in, usually after the males are on the ground.

In each case where I have observed this, I have intervened after observing the bluebird losing a few times. The house sparrow is much more wary of people and usually flies away from the area when I appear out of the house, while the bluebirds remain. The sparrow will return though, until trapped.

I look forward to hearing others' accounts.

Pam in Harford County, Maryland

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu [mailto:owner-BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Linda Violett
Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 7:20 PM
To: Bluebird-L"at"cornell.edu (BLUEBIRD-L)
Subject: Re: fighting bluebirds

...

Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 22:42:44 -0800
From: Linda Violett lviolett"at"earthlink.net
To: "Bluebird-L"at"cornell.edu" (BLUEBIRD-L) Bluebird-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: fighting bluebirds

Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif.

Thanks to both Pam and Pauline for describing what they witnessed during sparrow vs. bluebird nestbox battles. Both accounts describe battles that take place outside the nestbox.

I am interested in receiving additional details (off list if others aren't interested). I have seen a bluebird take its foot and pin another bluebird's neck to the ground during a mealworm squabble. Do bluebirds try to use this head-hold on sparrows during a nestbox fight? It is my understanding sparrows try latch onto the back of its opponent's neck. Has anyone seen a sparrow approach an entrance hole in preparation for an attack on an incubating female? Doesn't the female bluebird cry for help? Where's her mate? Where's the sparrow's mate?

Pamela Ford wrote:

Linda,
While I have lost a nesting female bluebird to what appeared to be a
house sparrow attack I didn't personally witness the killing. I have,
however, witnessed many (at least 30) battles where a house sparrows
tries to take over a nestbox. What I have seen has always been
initiated by the male house sparrow. He will try to land on the
bluebird's nestbox and the two male birds end up in a physical tangle,
many times rolling on the grass, holding on with the claws and pecking
at each other. It's been surprising to me that the smaller house sparrow almost always comes out on top.

I look forward to hearing others' accounts.

Pam in Harford County, Maryland

Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 10:35:30 -0400
From: Haleya Priest mablue"at"gis.net
To: lviolett"at"earthlink.net
CC: "Bluebird-L"at"cornell.edu (BLUEBIRD-L)" Bluebird-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: fighting bluebirds

Haleya Priest Amherst MA
Linda, Two attempted HOSP attacks come to mind. IN my yard, I have some well established tough EABL. Any time a HOSP comes near they attack the HOSPs. I don't worry too much about these EABL, however, I still trap any HOSP. When the EABL fledge their babies and leave the box empty for a few days, HOSP usually come check the box out. This is the only time I see the HOSP really nearby.

On one other occasion I witnessed a rogue male HOSP attack a TRES nest. I drove up just as the HOSP was leaving the nest. I watched for the next 15 minutes as he repeatedly went to the box and went in the box. Each time about 8 TRES were circling the box and trying to attack him, but he was absolutely unintimidated by them. He seemed to have one focus and that was to enter the box and kill the babies. Which he succeeded at. The TRES just could not stop
him! H

Linda Violett wrote:

Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif.

For those who have actually witnessed sparrows make an attack or

...

Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 08:58:20 -0800
From: "Virginia Nufer" nuferv"at"ohsu.edu
To: Bluebird-L"at"cornell.edu (BLUEBIRD-L), lviolett"at"earthlink.net
Subject: Re: fighting bluebirds

Portland, Oregon, USA

Not Bluebirds but related: I've seen a male House Sparrow land at the entrance hole, reach in and pull the male Violet-Green Swallow out! I have never seen HOSP actually enter this particular box, the oblong slot is even a narrow fit for the swallows, but that hasn't prevented the sparrows from trying. (I'm worried about this year as I haven't been able to get a decoy for my traps; usually I've caught one in a nestbox trap by this time. There's a 30+ strong flock out there...ARRG!)

Marsie Nufer

Linda Violett lviolett"at"earthlink.net 02/10 10:42 PM
Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif.

...

Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 18:45:22 -0000
From: "madelineincalifornia" madbrushpainter"at"netzero.net
Subject: Male House Sparrow

I have noticed some male House Sparrows at my "Peanut Butter Suet Log Feeder from time to time...not everyday, but once in awhile. They really seem to like the suet along with many other birds. I don't know what to do to discourage them as I worry about the Bluebirds when they nest. I have had two male and one female bluebirds checking out the houses in my yard since January. The other day we found a dead male Bluebird in one of the houses. Since, now there only seems to be one male Bluebird coming around, assume it was one of the two that have been here since January. Do any of you have an idea on what could have happened? Could a House Sparrow have killed him? The other male Bluebird couldn't have done that...would he?
Mad
Folsom, CA (Sacramento County)

Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 21:06:01 -0000
From: "jenniferswi" jhoffman"at"sal.wisc.edu
Subject: Re: Male House Sparrow

Good to hear from you, Mad! Did you look closely at the dead bluebird? Did he have any injuries or was he bloody at all? Wounds on the head or eyes are a good indicator of a house sparrow attack. In this case, you might also find signs of a struggle in the box, especially feathers pulled out. If he's unmarked and the box is clean, he may have simply died of natural causes. I don't think male bluebirds normally fight each other to the death, even during mating season.

I know this would be hard to do, but if the house sparrows are eating your suet, I think I would advise not putting out suet while the bluebirds are nesting. If you feed seed, switch to safflower only (which the sparrows don't like as much). That should cut down on the sparrow population in your yard and help keep your bluebirds safe!

Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 02:06:20 -0000
From: "madelineincalifornia" madbrushpainter"at"netzero.net
Subject: Re Male House Sparrow

Thanks Jennifer!
No there was no sign of blood or feathers and the house was clean. That makes me feel better that he was probably not killed by another Bluebird...they are such sweet and gentle birds! It had entered my mind that he could not get out of the box for some reason and therefore perished. I guess this would be a good time to start the mealworms for the Bluebirds in their own feeder!
Mad

From: "Phil Berry" mrtony8"at"mchsi.com
To: "BLUEBIRD CORNELL" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: HOSP 2; EABL 0.
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:15:02 -0600

This afternoon while finsihing the installation of temp monitors on my trail I opened the door on a new box (up one week) and a dead male EABL lying on the floor. His head was featherless, otherwise no damage. Is this the work of HOSP? If so, I am taking Thursday to install monofilament line on every one of my boxes. This is the second dead EABL this Spring, the first was a female, about two weeks or so ago. I am sick. I can't stand to see this kind of thing happen. Whatever the cause, I MUST stop it!!! Until I lost my first EABL to HOSP, I would never have imagined I could kill anything. After the first time this happened, and HOSP used the feathers to build a nest, I could torture the little rats. On that note, does anyone have an idea on how I can use the monofilament line on the door of a NABS style box, front opening, with the bottom hinged door (opens from the top). I can't see how to string the line across the front, the door won't open then. I am thinking of using one piece on each side (of the front, on the frame), then stringing two vertical lines on the door itself. How can I get a line across the door? They say one pic is worth a thousand words. I have pics from the archives to use, but the unit uses a side door. In closing, I am mad as H*** and I am not going to take it any more!!!!

Phil Berry
Gulf Breeze, Florida

Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 20:01:56 -0400
From: Haleya Priest mablue"at"gis.net
To: mrtony8"at"mchsi.com
CC: BLUEBIRD CORNELL BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: HOSP 2; EABL 0.

Haleya Priest Amherst MA

Dear Phil, So sorry about your EABL. It sure sounds like a HOSP attack to me. They are ruthless and deadly and they especially like going for the head and eyes.... a bald head or parts of the head is pretty much the work of a HOSP. I've also seen damage (balding) to other parts of the body, but the head and eyes are primary targets. :-(

I haven't used monofilament as yet, but I would like to remind all bluebirders that if you protect a box from HOSP via monofilament, most likely that HOSP is going to head for another box and kill an EABL somewhere else!

So make sure if you use monofilament or any other HOSP deterrent you also trap!!!! :-) H

Phil Berry wrote:

This afternoon while finsihing the installation of temp monitors on

...

From: "Keith & Sandy Kridler" kridler"at"1starnet.com
To: "BLUEBIRD-L" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: losing eggs, or adult birds
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 08:10:19 -0600

Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas
For those who have House Sparrows/Starlings and native cavity nesters we are going to see survival of the strongest. Starlings evict MOST species of cavity nesters from flicker sized birds on down. They don't normally kill adult birds, they physically drag the adults out of the cavity but toss out eggs, young and the nesting material, killing these young birds in the process and this to me describes a PREDATOR.

House Sparrows on the other hand will sometimes kill other adult birds along with tossing out eggs or killing young birds. Normally when you see the back of the head of a native cavity nester severely pecked, a house Sparrow calling or going into the box then you can probably blame the sparrow.

When eggs disappear you need to do detective work! If the entrance hole is large enough for a starling to enter or reach into a nest cup close to the entrance hole it makes pinning the blame more difficult because magpies and several other species could also be to blame. Even Red-headed woodpeckers have been seen feeding their young the young birds of other species when insects were scarce!

If House Wrens are singing near the box then remember on AVERAGE it takes a wren 7 seconds per egg to empty a nest! House Sparrows and Starlings also remove eggs or young and can probably be as quick. Flying squirrels will also eat eggs (I opened a box early one morning and caught one actually eating one) or young birds.

Rats and weasels if they can climb the pole will enter boxes and eat the contents. Mice will kill and eat young birds usually starting with feet/legs or wings, they may possibly also be an egg eater in the right circumstances. When trapping rodents at our campsite rats and mice prefer fish or red meat to any type of vegetable matter or other people food.

We hope you are using guards to protect mounting poles against most climbing predators if they are a problem in your area!

We will see many more losses to House Sparrows as the season continues and these birds CAN be trapped out of areas IF you use enough trap boxes as flocks of sparrows tend to use fairly small "home" areas and will stay in a "safe" roost or their own area all summer IF they have enough food, water, roost sites and nesting areas. When they are continually driven from an area in early spring they will move to where they feel safe!

Sparrows tend to move from a populated colony to surrounding areas so once an area is cleared of most sparrows some trapping of them will continue through out the breeding season. VARY the box type, size, mounting height and even color of some of your nestboxes! If you are going to be trapping then place perches on the trap boxes! Linda Violett can post about her efforts at finding a solution to this problem.

Share what works for you and what doesn't! Even if a solution only works for a year in an area it could make a LOT of difference. KK

From: "Bill Darnell" bdarnel3"at"bellsouth.net
To: kridler"at"1starnet.com, "BLUEBIRD-L" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: losing eggs, or adult birds
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 08:37:26 -0600

According to many Martin landlords who have witnessed Starling depredation, they usually go for the eyes of the Martin, and probably stabbing into the brain. Of course, the killing is done in the cavity.

My opinion is we should never relent in killing house sparrows and starlings!

Bill Darnell
Savannah, TN

Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas
For those who have House Sparrows/Starlings and native cavity

...

From: "Pauline, Mountain City TX" bluebirds"at"austin.rr.com
To: "BLUEBIRD-L" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: losing eggs, or adult birds / Add hole restrictor for smaller nesting birds
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 09:52:21 -0600

Yesterday I found this season's first two eggs destroyed by a House Sparrow ... right out my bedroom door, smashed on the wood deck amidst some of the parent' s feathers . The voice of one of the parents (Bewick's Wren; pronounced "Buicks") in a nearby tree was frantic.

This morning I eye-witnessed the House Sparrow entering the hole again and frightened him away, but I can't stand at the door all day.

In the "survival of the fittest", the House Sparrow will be the winner unless we intervene (this includes trapping and destroying House Sparrow and protecting smaller species with smaller entrance holes - and even refraining from feeding common mixed seed which contains millet which attracts House Sparrows). Our native birds have not had time to evolve in ways to withstand the House Sparrow's attacks - he was brought to this continent less than 150 years ago.

If the nest above my back deck had been in a "nestbox", I might have added a hole restrictor when the little Bewick's Wrens nested in order to keep House Sparrows out. But, this nesting was in one of the "birdhouses" I had chosen to keep. (Adorable house - a triangle shaped face. Birds enter through nostril holes. It usually brings roars of laughter around my house ... but not today.)

There has been a House Sparrow ground trap beside the deck, but the sparrow hasn't been interested in it .... yet.

Pauline Tom
Mountain City (no mountains) TX
www.texasbluebirdsociety.org

----- Original Message -----
From: Keith & Sandy Kridler
To: BLUEBIRD-L
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 8:10 AM
Subject: losing eggs, or adult birds

...

Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:47:51 -0500
From: "Kimberly Putnam" kputnam"at"sc.rr.com
Subject: bluebird's nesting?I

I live in central SC, and have had several bluebirds coming to my feeder....I found scraps of paper in my house which I prompltly removed. Today I saw a leaf sticking out the entrance, upon investigation I found several small feathers (grey with little white). At first I thought they were blue, and got excited.. I have no idea what bluebirds make their nest outof...Is it possilbe that I Just might get a couple in my house?

They are coming on a regular basis, usually around 6am, and again around 4pm...Think they wait for me to put out the worms.

putput

Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:23:13 -0000
From: "jj2939730" jjsmith"at"traceroad.net
Subject: Re: bluebird's nesting?I

Hi Putput,
The BB's in my area(MS) build their nest out of dried grass and pine straw. They use dried grass mostly. Not sure, but your nest could have been House Sparrows-If you have them around. The BB nest is a much neater nest than Hp.It is a little early here for BB's to nest. Sparrows usually nest earlier than they do. I do have one BB nest with two eggs, but last year it was March 31st before they nested. Years earlier it was around the first of April. Don't give up on them, yet. Even if they don't nest the first go around, they may nest the second. Good luck. Jeanette

-- In bluebirdtrail"at"y..., "Kimberly Putnam" kputnam"at"s... wrote:
I live in central SC, and have had several bluebirds coming to my feeder....I found scraps of paper in my house which I prompltly removed. Today I saw a leaf sticking out the entrance, upon investigation I found several small feathers (grey with little white). At first I thought they were blue, and got excited.. I have no idea what bluebirds make their nest outof...Is it possilbe that I Just might get a couple in my house?

They are coming on a regular basis, usually around 6am, and again around 4pm...Think they wait for me to put out the worms.

putput

Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:18:38 -0000
From: "ruby_tuesday_sw_wi" ruby-tuesday"at"wi.rr.com
Subject: Re: bluebird's nesting?I

Kimberly...I agree about removing those paper scraps from your boxes as that sounds like a HOSP from what I have read. As far as those feathers...I wonder if they are a sign that a (TRES) tree swallow pair has laid claim to your box??? This is only my second season of  birding but I read that the tree swallows use feathers in their nests. Also, I read that these birds can usually be found where one might expect to see bluebirds with both species living almost side by side in harmony. If this is the case...how lucky for you to have 2 of the lovliest birds checking out your site!!! Hopefully, someone with more experience can advise you about those feathers. Meanwhile...please keep us posted as to what happens at your place.
Renee SW Wisconsin

From: "Bill & Dot Forrester" forreste"at"ptdprolog.net
To: "bluebird-l" bluebird-l"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Are you SURE that's a house sparrow???
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:47:16 -0500

Hi all,

This is just a gentle reminder to everyone, especially new birders, to properly ID a bird before destroying it or its nest. There are many sparrows and sparrow look-alikes which do no harm to bluebirds, so you really need to know exactly what a house sparrow (HOSP) looks like, especially the male with his black throat patch. Other similar birds do indeed go into ground traps - my Hav-a-Hart chipmunk trap used to catch house finches, white-throated sparrows, goldfinches, chickadees, and once a cardinal. Even traps in boxes are now likely to catch beneficial species. The drastic explosion of mealworm feeders has unfortunately taught many non-cavity nesters that it sometimes pays to enter a nest box cavity in search of mealworms. Goldfinches seem to be the most commonly seen in this situation, and a winter goldfinch or spring female can look very much like a "sparrow" to beginners. And as Keith pointed out in an earlier post, song sparrows once nested in boxes and may still try one of yours. Even the small brownish wren can be mistaken for an enemy (sometimes they are a serious problem but are a protected species). Peace of mind and less worrying and stress are a direct result of knowing your birds well enough to be absolutely certain that your intruder is *really* the dreaded HOSP.

Dot (PA near Allentown)

From: Shane Marcotte marco50"at"bellsouth.net
To: BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu (BLUEBIRD-L)
Subject: Sparrows
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 21:15:40 -0500

Hello All,
Are any other Sparrows threats to BBs besides HOSP?Are other Sparrows second cavity nesters?
Shane in Watson Louisiana

From: "Fawzi P. Emad femad <at> fpemad <dot> com
To: marco50"at"bellsouth.net, "BLUEBIRD-L" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Sparrows
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 07:48:23 -0500

Hi Shane. All other sparrows are native sparrows and pose no threat to the Bluebirds. Most sparrows are also great song birds (unlike the HOSP which merely chirps away.) One has to be careful not to mix the HOSP (House Sparrow) with a native Sparrow, they look very much alike. This is why the HOSP was named a sparrow when in fact it is a weaver finch. Make sure you can identify the HOSP. The male HOSP is easiest to recognize, the female HOSP is a little harder to distinguish, but with observation, one's ability improves. I learned how to identify these birds by looking at the bird guidebooks I have.

Fawzi

Fawzi Emad in Laytonsville, Maryland
femad"at"comcast.net

----- Original Message -----
From: "Shane Marcotte" marco50"at"bellsouth.net
To: "BLUEBIRD-L" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2002 9:15 PM
Subject: Sparrows

Hello All,
Are any other Sparrows threats to BBs besides HOSP?Are other
Sparrows second cavity nesters?
Shane in Watson Louisiana

Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 07:50:50 -0600
To: BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu (BLUEBIRD-L)
From: Kate Oschwald bbnestbox"at"1starnet.com
Subject: Re: Sparrows

At 09:15 PM 3/31/02 -0500, Shane Marcotte wrote:
Hello All,
Are any other Sparrows threats to BBs besides HOSP?Are other
Sparrows second cavity nesters?
Shane in Watson Louisiana

I have read only once about a song sparrow using a nestbox. Any sparrows other than house sparrows are generally not considered a threat to bluebirds.

Kate Oschwald
Paris, TX
100 mi NE of Dallas
33.6853N 95.6293W

From: "Keith & Sandy Kridler" kridler"at"1starnet.com
To: "BLUEBIRD-L" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re:nest identification
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 06:40:52 -0600

Keith Kridler
When in doubt about what is building in a nestbox be sure and wait! There can be huge differences it types and styles of "bluebird nests" depending on the material available and the experience of the female! I would think that if we gave 12 women on this list the same material and sewing equipment that NONE of the dresses would look the same:-)))

Seriously it sounds like you might have House Sparrows trying to take over a bluebird nest. Be sure to have an extra box or two in the area and watch whenever you can to see who is in control of the box. There is no hurry to remove a nest as if the sparrows are building they can rebuild in a couple of hours, same goes for the bluebirds, but they also might move on down the road. Keep us posted. KK

From: "Bill & Dot Forrester" forreste"at"ptdprolog.net
To: "bluebird-l" bluebird-l"at"cornell.edu
Subject: shooting every bird near your nest box? I'm SCARED!
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 08:22:34 -0500

Hi all,

Since I posted my "Are you SURE it's a house sparrow?" note, I have had 11 different people contact me privately. All of them are apparently shooting any sparrow-like bird that comes anywhere near their nestbox, and this is extremely frightening. Many birds will sit near or on a nest box with no harmful effects. I beg all of you to go to our RefGuide, posted each week, and look at the photo of the male house sparrow (HOSP) and listen to his cheeps. If this site is not available to you, go to the nearest Home Depot or McDonalds fast food place, where there will be tons of HOSP to see and hear. I am not trying to attack these people, because every single one of them is trying hard to protect his bluebirds. Each one is so worried about possible HOSP attacks that he does not seem to be enjoying any pleasure from his nesting bluebirds. But we just *cannot* shoot anything that looks vaguely like a HOSP. Just before we moved to PA last fall, one of my neighbors proudly showed me the HOSP her husband had just shot off their (empty) nest box. It was an early tree sparrow. To top it off, one of their neighbors reported them to the local police for firing a BB gun in a residential back yard. These were perfectly nice people who love bluebirds, but I was so saddened at this unnecessary death that I felt sick inside. We are all bluebird lovers here and presumably care about other birds and wildlife in general, so it is our responsibility to be absolutely certain that we are not destroying beneficial birds. Please get into your bluebird landlording with restraint and knowledge, so that our native bird population is not being decimated by mistake. Our birds have enough problems in the world today without being killed by bird lovers. Thanks for listening.

Dot (PA near Allentown)

From: "FeatheredFriends" FeatheredFriends"at"att.net
To: "BLUEBIRD-L" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Eggs out of Nestbox
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 11:11:56 -0500

Good morning all,

I'm new to the list (just sighed up today) but am in my 3rd year with a bluebird nestbox, am no expert by any means and am seeking some insight. My bluebird pair successfully started their nest and had two eggs layed. On the third day, upon inspection of the box, I found the nest empty, but the box was still secure (shut). I found the two eggs very nearby on the ground - each had a hole pierced in it but the contents of the egg remained. Upon further inspection of the nest,,,there were (what seemed like) hundreds of ants under the nest. My questions are: 1) what predator got the eggs out of the nest without opening the box? the ants!? 2) what should I do about the ants 3) will the pair return to this nest and re-lay eggs,,,or should I clean the box out? (They were present while I discovered the ants and watching closely).

I've never experienced this problem in the past years.

Thanks for the help.
Debbie Rosenberger
Mid-TN

Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 11:48:41 -0500
To: bluebird-l"at"cornell.edu (BLUEBIRD-L)
From: "Tracy L. Powell" tlp01"at"uark.edu
Subject: Re: Eggs out of Nestbox

Sounds like house wrens. I had my first experience with them this past weekend. A house wren threw out six baby carolina chickadees. So yes, house wrens WILL kill nestlings. I decided house wrens will not be allowed to nest in nestboxes in my yard. I closed the entrance holes. Many say to grease the pole to prevent ants. I use Raid on the base of the poles in SW Ark. where we have fire ants.

At 11:11 AM 4/16/02 -0500, you wrote:
Good morning all,

I'm new to the list (just sighed up today) but am in my 3rd year with a

...

Tracy Powell
Fayetteville, Arkansas

"Nothing spurs one's inspiration more than necessity..." Gioachino Rossini

From: "D. H. Snook" dhsnook"at"sssnet.com
To: FeatheredFriends"at"att.net
Cc: BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu (BLUEBIRD-L)
Subject: Re: Eggs out of Nestbox
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 13:15:47 -0400

It sounds like House Wrens (HOWR). Were there any small sticks in the nest? The male HOWR makes "dummy" nests in numerous cavities. The female then makes the final choice of which nest to take. The male HOWR is a nasty dude, killing chicks, throwing them out of the nest, and breaking eggs.

The nest is probably fouled from the poked eggs, hence the ants. I would clean out the box and remove the nest. If the Eastern Blue Birds (EABL) are still around, they may re-nest.

A good product to keep ants out of the box is Tangle Foot. Use a tooth brush to apply an inch or so around the base of the post/pole. Most garden stores carry this product.

www.tanglefoot.com

Doug Snook

D. H. Snook/Sondra R. Snook
Canal Fulton, OH 44614 (NE Quadrant)
40:53N 81:35W
----- Original Message -----
From: "FeatheredFriends" FeatheredFriends"at"att.net
To: "BLUEBIRD-L" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 12:11 PM
Subject: Eggs out of Nestbox

...

From: "C & G Statton" statton"at"toolcity.net
To: BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu (BLUEBIRD-L)
Subject: Re: Eggs out of Nestbox
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 15:59:22 -0400

Chris Statton
NW PA

Debbie ... I'd agree that it would likely be house wrens with the egg "pierced". (House sparrows usually just peck or toss.) Doug Snook's mention of the spilling of some contents of one or both eggs may well be the attractant for the ants under the nest.

I have one concern about pulling the nest immediately. Blues can lay 1 egg on up to 6 in a clutch. So, your female blue may not be done laying. If the nest is pulled and she has more eggs, she may lay them on the bare box floor. Only my opinion, I'd brush out the ants totally - even get them out of the nest (totally) and put the nest back in for a day or so. This, only to see if the female has more eggs she needs to lay. If she does lay more eggs, then I'd replace the soiled nest with another nest (saved from previous years). If she doesn't lay more eggs over the next couple of days, then pull the nest.

A ring of lithium grease or other ant-deterrent on the pole is excellent to keep them from coming back. (If your pole is an open pipe, the pipe might need capped to keep ants from coming up the inside of the pole.)

Of course, at the same time, the predator is a problem, too. Is your box out in the open? If it is close to a tree line, it might need gradually moved away from the tree line. ("Gradually" quickly enough to disinterest the wren, slowly enough to not confuse the blues ... a judgement call. If the blues lay no more eggs, the box may just be moved.)

Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 15:44:42 -0500
To: FeatheredFriends"at"att.net, "BLUEBIRD-L" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
From: Kate Oschwald bbnestbox"at"1starnet.com
Subject: Re: Eggs out of Nestbox

At 11:11 AM 4/16/02 -0500, FeatheredFriends wrote:
Good morning all,

I'm new to the list (just sighed up today) but am in my 3rd year with a

...

I don't know if you have house wrens where you are, but that's what is sounds like to me. They pierce the egg to remove it from the nest, but don't necessarily eat it. The presence of the ants may have been a coincidence, or perhaps they were drawn to the broken egg, some of which may have gotten on the nest material in the box.

Since the female is in the process of laying eggs, she needs a nest right now. If you believe there is sticky egg material on the nest, and you feel you should clean out the nestbox, you could attempt to fashion a nest for her out of dry grass (not green wet grass), so she doesn't have to lay her remaining eggs in a dirty nest or on the bare wood of the nestbox. Some people keep an old (unsoiled) nest from previous years for just such an emergency.

Others on this list will have advice as well.

Kate Oschwald
Paris, TX
100 mi NE of Dallas
33.6853N 95.6293W

From: "JD" ds"at"comteck.com
To: "BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.ed" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Nest Problem...Help
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 13:10:00 -0500

My female Bluebird just started laying her eggs just this week. The first egg was laid on April 24th, second one on April 25th, then on April 26th she didn't lay any eggs. Then today I go to check on things I felt only 1 egg then I looked in (nestbox is a little taller than me) I seen an egg outside of the nest. I felt something is wrong when I looked at it it has 2 puncture holes in it. Now I don't have any HOSP around nor any House Wrens besides the box is out in the open. Prior to the BB's even building their nest the Female Cowbird has landed on the roof of the box.

My question is do I leave the egg in the box or just take it out? I just went ahead & put it back in the nest as I don't know what to do.

Also, 1 time when I checked the box this week the male BB attacked me before I started to leave the nestbox. At the time I found it odd bc he has never done that to me before. But now it is making sense as I am thinking the Fem. Cowbird as probably been trying to do this all week.

The BB's didn't take to the other nestbox I have that last years BB's nested succesfully.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Joleen in Indiana

From: hubertrap"at"webtv.net (Joe Huber)
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 15:19:47 -0400 (EDT)
To: ds"at"comteck.com, BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu (BLUEBIRD-L)
Subject: Re: Nest Problem...Help

Hi Joleen and all, holes poked in eggs are generally caused by House Wrens, but it is possible a HOSP has done that. I really don't think the Cow bird Did it since all she wants to do is enter any lay eggs with the others. Since these bluebird eggs are punctured you may as well remove them as they won't hatch. There is a chance the BLuebirds will start again and lay new eggs as long as no other problems develop. Let every one know what happens
next. Good Birding Joe Huber Venice Fl.

Charter member NABS, Charter member OBS, Life member OBS Joe Huber hubertrap"at"webtv.net

http://community.webtv.net/hubertrap/HOUSESPARROWCONTROL

http://community.webtv.net/hubertrap/RoostingBluebirds

27.1171494 N Lo -82.4124222 W
He who ask a question is stupid for five minutes, He who never ask a question remains stupid forever, Chinese Priverb.

From: "JD" ds"at"comteck.com
To: "BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.ed" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Nest Problem...Help
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 13:10:00 -0500
Reply-To: ds"at"comteck.com
Sender: owner-BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu

...

From: "JD" ds"at"comteck.com
To: "BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.ed" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Nest Problem...Help
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 15:39:35 -0500

Joe,

Hello

Thank you for your reply to my email. Actually, in one of my books it says that the female cowbird removes one of the eggs from the nest then lays her own. There is no other eggs in the box except the 2 BB eggs. Before your email I read things on the cornell website in the archives & one email someone said the BB's would remove any bad eggs so I just went back & put the punctured egg back where I found it. I am gonna go out there & just remove it. I first thought by putting it back in the nest that what ever did it would just take the damaged one, but then I worried that it would harm the good egg. So then I thougt well if I put the damaged egg back where I found it they would just take that one or the BB would take it out. I will just go ahead n remove it then.

If it is House Wren which I don't think it is as I have never seen one in my yard. I do have the Carolina Wrens. Last year when my BB's were nesting in the other BB nestbox I had a pair of Carolina Wrens nest in the BB nestbox that this years BB are nesting in now. Should I put up another BB box or see what happens w/ this one?

Joleen in Indiana

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Huber" hubertrap"at"webtv.net
To: ds"at"comteck.com; BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 2:19 PM
Subject: Re: Nest Problem...Help

Hi Joleen and all, holes poked in
eggs are generally caused by House Wrens, but it is possible a HOSP
has done that. I really don't think the Cow bird Did it since all she wants
to do is enter any lay eggs with the others. Since these bluebird
eggs are punctured you may as well remove them as they won't hatch.
There is a chance the BLuebirds will start again and lay new eggs as
long as no other problems develop. Let every one know what happens
next. Good Birding Joe Huber Venice Fl.

From: "JD" ds"at"comteck.com
To: "BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.ed" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Nest Problem...Help
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 16:27:57 -0500

Karen,

Hello

Thank you for your reply. A part of me thinks maybe it is the Cowbird (gut feeling) & she didn't get to finish the job as maybe the BB's finally won the fight in the end even tho they lost one egg. Just a thought. I wasn't up this morning to know who did this. I am definately gonna be out there tomorrow morning to check on things.

The thing I am worried about is if the BB's will continue to nest in this box or give up?

Joleen in Indiana

----- Original Message -----
From: Karen Louise Lippy
To: ds"at"comteck.com
Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 4:10 PM
Subject: Re: Nest Problem...Help

Joleen,
It is possible that the cowbird punctured the eggs, but they usually remove them before laying one of their own. It definitely sounds as if you are having conflict at the box. It's good your bluebird is so aggressive. I'd take the egg out. It will never develop and can mess the nest attracting predators or parasites.
Karen from South Central PA

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