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Problems with house sparrows on the bluebird trail (Part 9)HOSP (House Sparrow) Philosophies, Press/Public relations, Children, etc.Also see other HOSP information under Active Control, Passive Control, Lime, General, Disposal, Predator Identification, etc. In addition to Messages that have appeared in the Bluebird Mailing Lists on this topic, the following are on the Audubon Society of Omaha website:
From: "Keith & Sandy Kridler" kridler"at"1starnet.com Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas The 1889 book on sparrows that Dottie was looking for was bought by Gary Springer for about $100 off of Ebay a year ago and is a MAJOR book and not a bulletin. There would be several hundred pages to copy but it describes the House Sparrows that were brought into the US and when and from what country and that they did NOT all come from England. So we had sparrows brought from many different countries and many more distinct regions of the world and created for example a California population and the ones released into Houston Tex are from different countries and those in Philadelphia and New York are also from two more different countries so there will be slightly different habits and temperaments from all over the US in your House Sparrow populations! I have many old books and many/most describe the House Sparrows as "destroying" the nests of other native cavity nesters! We also have had hundreds of reports over the years on this list of "bluebirds" destroying chickadee and titmice nests! It is NATURAL for a larger/stronger/faster (House Wrens for example) bird to take over the best nesting/breeding site(s) in the area. This happens from rodent species all the way to the human species! The strongest/most successful individuals will have the best location and best "house". When ripping out nests of sparrows and teaching them to stay out of your box/drive them away ETC. they are only going to go nest in another location! They are not going to simply fly off and meekly sit on a gently swinging tree limb for the rest of their life! I believe that most of these sparrows will find a vacant site or wait until another species fledges to try and nest again. A few will and we have again gotten hundreds of reports on this list over the years where people have removed the sparrow nest and it went across the yard or down the street and took over another occupied nest site! It doesn't happen every time but it happens often enough that IF you have enough boxes and enough other birds nesting close by you will see this happen. I doubt if even 1% of the people on this list have seen the breathing domesticated animal that produced the neatly wrapped meat that is in your freezer! If you didn't see the animal slaughtered does that mean it really didn't happen? Trapping sparrows and removing them from your trail will help the native birds produce a better crop this year but you will need to trap every year for the best results. Bluebirding is like having a home garden. If you only have a small patch of vegetables you cannot expect a "harvest" every year. If you have three or four small patches then the odds improve. If you put out 100's of patches then you will have an excess. Your BEST results will come by "planting" and then continuously "weeding" and "monitoring" the health of your "vegetables!" Harry Krueger in East Texas checked his 69 nestboxes EVERY SINGLE DAY and averaged about 9 fledged bluebirds per nestbox. The best I ever did was weekly checks and only averaged about 6 birds per nestbox in far better habitat only 50 miles to his west. Drop back to checking every two weeks and the numbers drop again. One of the main causes is the nestboxes are held for longer periods of time by House Sparrows on my trail. These are my observations on the bluebirds and sparrows in northeast Texas. KK Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 07:03:13 -0700 Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. Trapping is not a viable option for our public areas. Maynard R Sumner wrote: ... Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 07:06:22 -0700 Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. Keith, trapping is not a viable option on our very active public trails (think Disneyland). Keith & Sandy Kridler wrote: ... Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 10:05:33 -0400 Hi Linda and others, I submit this hesitatntly because I have less experience with bluebirds than many on this list. My education and expertise lie in the brain and behavior, and this experience is the perspective from which I am responding. The following is lengthy and theoretical, so delete it if that is unpalatable to you. I am posting it on the list beause it may interest some. In general, birds (including the incredibly adaptable and intelligent house sparrow) lack the brain structures necessary for conscious and rational thinking. As such, they are incapable of thinking, "My nest was destroyed. The guys next door must have done this, so I will attack them." A house sparrow's attack is not vindictive, malicious, or evil. Rather, the attack is a hormonally driven response to its awareness that its nesting attempt has been thwarted, and most likely directed toward the nearest perceived competitor. The extent to which a given house sparrow responds with aggression to a failed nesting attempt will vary from bird to bird, just as some humans are more aggressive than others. Splattering their eggs, shredding their nests, or dunking them in drainage ditches carries no emotional impact for them. These actions will not "teach" them that they are "not wanted". What they will percieve is a failed nesting attempt. The fact that you perform these activities within the bird's view might actually confuse the issue. The house sparrow sees that its nest has been destroyed, but it also sees that a human has been near its nest site. House sparrows are well adapted to living near humans, and probably associate our presence with safety, to some degree. Because they are not capable of conscious reasoning, they may be unable to conclude that "my nest was destroyed, and it was destroyed by the hands of a human. Therefore, I should leave and try to nest elsewhere." Quite possibly, they percieve two separate and unrelated phenomena: 1. My nest was destroyed, and 2. A human hangs out near my nest. The first can lead to aggression (possibly directed to a nearby bluebird), depending on the individual house sparrow. But the second could well be a perception of safety, and reinforce the bird's continued nesting behavior at that site. The important Message for the house sparrow to take home is
that reproductive success in the nestbox is poor. A sparrow
that "learns" this will likely avoid nestboxes, raise
young elsewhere, and teach its young to avoid nestboxes. This
could, with continued efforts by humans to discourage house
sparrows from using nestboxes, eventually lead to a population
of house sparrows that avoids nestboxes, preferring instead
to nest near buildings or to construct weaver finch nests in
dense trees and shrubs. (Note that this would argue against
killing house sparrows that try to use our boxes as a means
of control: if they are eliminated, they will not survive to
reproduce and teach their young to avoid nestboxes. The niche
can then be filled by new house sparrows which are willing to
try to nest in our boxes. Killing these new ones continues the
cycle, and so on, and so One final point that goes beyond your question of sneakiness vs. open destroyment as a strategy for discouraging sparrows. The success of the house sparrow itself perfectly illustrates the importance of aggression in ensuring reproductive success in the animal kingdom. Wouldn't it be beneficial for bluebirds to have a little more aggression in their gene pool? But one of the reasons people love them so much is that they are "gentle" and "peaceful" creatures, and these characteristics cause many of us take extraordinary protective measures on their behalf. This may sound cold and callous, but I wonder if we would do better to sometimes permit the house sparrow to cull out the more passive bluebirds, leaving the more aggressive bluebirds and their progeny to predominate in the gene pool. I respect Keith's vast experience and appreciate all of his help, but would like to point out that bluebirds are not a "cultivated" species. And it is well known in horticulture that the further you breed a plant from its wild genetic background, protecting cultivars from the competition (weeds, insect pests, etc.), feeding them, and watering them, the more likely these cultivars are to be weaker and more dependent on our help for survival. I agree that planting the garden and weeding out the competition does lead to more short term success, however. Janet Pesaturo Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 10:32:26 -0400 Linda, I had more opportunity this spring and summer than in most
years to observe the bird activity in my backyard as I recovered
from a shoulder injury. My backyard borders on a large meadow/hayfield
which is then surrounded by woods and a river. There is a lot
of wildlife. There is a pair of NABS-style nestboxes in my backyard,
approximately 25 feet apart. I've been bluebirding for just
three years now, but have had problems with HOSP each Interestingly, the blues would never enter a nestbox while the HOSP was nearby. At times, I was concerned that they the eggs/babies would suffer from their absence - but all worked out. I eventually trapped the first male HOSP, and he was replaced just days later by another that displayed the same behavior. The second was also trapped and a third is now filling in, still trying to takeover a nestbox (the EABL have a third clutch of 14-day old babies in one of the boxes). This year, I have not had a HOSP nest in the backyard, nor have the HOSP killed any bluebirds or eggs. However, last year I lost a 3-day old EABL nestling to a HOSP (I caught him in the act) and the year before, an apparent HOSP attack killed a female EABL while incubating. Neither of these attacked could be traced directly to a foiled HOSP nesting. I believe that the HOSP's drive for the nest site can in and of itself drive the aggressive, attack behavior. Just my observations. From: "Dottie, Hickory Hollow, Brown County, Indiana"
yumyumkatts"at"voyager.net "In general, birds (including the incredibly adaptable and intelligent house sparrow) lack the brain structures necessary for conscious and rational thinking." I don't think I agree with this statement (although I'm not
qualified to say one way or the other) after an experience I
just had with a I was out on my deck refilling a Hummer feeder after shooing off a wasp from the feeder that was taking a drink. The wasp didn't take too kindly to being disturbed and started flying around my head. I shooed him away from me a couple of times but he was persistent and kept coming back and flying around my head. He was right by the side of my face near my eye and I was getting ready to reach up and shoo him again when--out of the blue--and flying at the speed of light--a Hummer came out of no where and knocked that wasp so hard I heard the Hummer hit him. The wasp literally "went flying". The Hummer came so close to my eye that his wing touched my face. I posted this happening to the Humnet List and also to all my friends and relatives and relayed it all to them and ended up by asking if it was too unrealistic to think the Hummer was protecting me. Everyone that responded (quite a few) said the same thing. The Hummer was indeed protecting me. No question about it. In view of this experience, I think all creatures know more than we give them credit. Dottie, Hickory Hollow ----- Original Message ----- ... Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 11:10:23 -0400 More likely, the hummer was protecting the feeder. You happened to be in the right place at the right time. Or, the hummer might have been trying to attack both the wasp and you, in order to protect its precious food source. Janet "Dottie, Hickory Hollow, Brown County, Indiana" wrote: "In general, birds (including the incredibly adaptable and intelligent ... Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 09:58:20 -0700 (PDT) --- Linda Violett lviolett"at"earthlink.net wrote: Linda, Please explain. Why is trapping not an option while open destruction of nests and eggs is acceptable?
... From: "Karen Louise Lippy" brdbrain"at"superpa.net Janet, Your point that house sparrows do not have the capability of human thought and emotions is well taken. No matter how hard we try, sometimes we ascribe these emotions to wildlife. The fault lies in us for expecting birds to behave in ways we consider moral. Karen from South Central PA ----- Original Message ----- ... From: "Paula Ziebarth" PaulaZ"at"columbus.rr.com I understand Linda's concern regarding trapping in public areas and Jim's response. My trail is in public park and I have dispatched a HOSP with someone fishing 6 feet from me. You just have to be sneaky about it. Also, best time to nab them is at dusk or night when they have gone to roost and no other people are around. I make night runs after taking notes on which box harbors HOSP - works great in public areas. Paula Z. Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 13:37:58 -0400 I also am reluctant to draw conclusions that attribute too much thought process. However, I have a mockingbird pair nesting in the yard that swoop and dive-bomb the blues - yet.... the blues will dash by the mockers and into the nestbox. Do they know from experience that the mockers do not enter the boxes? (too big to fit in the hole), yet they see the HOSP entering boxes? Your guess is as good as mine. -----Original Message----- ... From: Hcmsmith3"at"aol.com H. Smith, central CT The close and ever- changing juxtaposition of suburban/rural land use here in CT has made success with bluebirds really boil down to a political/economic issue. I maintain small trails in rural areas 30-40mi. from where I live. The distance prevents me from monitoring as frequently as I would like. While nearby, potentially good suburban habitats are likely to yield only house sparrows or wrens, if permission to set boxes is even granted. As much as we all treasure bluebirds, the situation here is made all the more poignant by my sense that these birds are on the razor's edge. The many practical suggestions I've gleaned in only a few days from this list may help tip the balance in trying to help bluebirds regain lost ground.But, I can easily agree with Karen's bigger picture final comment about habitat preservation, though is that beyond the scope of this list? H.S. Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 13:10:15 -0700 (PDT) Hi all, Indiana trail: in my 5th full season of providing nestboxes: Total of 75 HOSP eliminated over the 5 years. Never lost a native bird (adult or nestling) to a HOSP attack. Illinois trail: my first full season providing nestboxes. Stopped counting at 110 HOSP eliminated about 5 weeks ago with another 50-60 since then. Seven EABL nestlings lost to HOSP attack. In the Spring and another time period from mid June through July waves of HOSP appear. The EABL has shown numerous times that they CAN defend their nesting cavity as long as they are not trapped in the nestbox, not searching for food a great distance from the nestbox, not missing one of the adult EABL or not grossly outnumbered by the HOSP. All birds are agressive in defending their nesting territory
however, the HOSP is equipped with that large, heavy finch-like
beak that it effectively uses as a weapon. The male HOSP's drive
to procreate and the fact that the HOSP male is actually a polygamist
keeps it actively searching for additional nesting sites all
year. Have a good day Bob Sitarski a.k.a The Doctor Jackson County Indiana ( 38.5244N 86.023W ) & Clay County Illinois ( 38.4008N 88.2908W ) From: DottyRogers"at"netscape.net Thanks a million everyone! Never even occurred to me to do a search for the text; clearly I'm a computer twit. DUH. Anyway, thanks again! Dot From: "Dottie, Hickory Hollow, Brown County, Indiana"
yumyumkatts"at"voyager.net Re: HOSP Revenge"The Hummer was attacking an enemy! Do not give animals human traits. It will only confuse the issue." I'm sorry but I still can't agree with the above statement. Wasp frequent my Hummer feeders as well as bees, etc. The Hummers just move over to another port. I never see them fighting any insect. However, I definitely would not try to give wildlife human traits. And, in that statement more discussion could develop. Dottie, Hickory Hollow ----- Original Message ----- ... Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 15:25:04 -0700 Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. Am really enjoying the posts, lots of good background and insights. But my original question has had only a few responses, so I will restate the question at the end of this post. Yes, we know house sparrows will kill other birds. Yes, sparrows (if disturbed) will often take over a different box. And, sparrows will (of course!) kill during nestbox takeovers. All this we know as fact. But Steve Kroenke's report states that if a sparrow nest is removed from its nestbox, it can become mean, frustrated, aggressive and vindictive. He describes a particularly nasty house sparrow of mass destruction who terrorizes active *neighboring* purple martin nests and doesn't stop. And I believe what Steve described is true of what he has witnessed relating to purple martins and house sparrows. What is troubling me is that this scenario probably does not apply to bluebird trails. Yet, his report continues to be circulated amongst bluebirders as an example of what can occur if a house sparrow nest is removed. The risk factor of pulling nests seems to have been blown waaaay out of proportion. But many monitors are afraid to remove a sparrow nest because of probable (they think) retaliation to nearby bluebird nestings. Instead of pulling the house sparrow nest, they are actually ADDING an extra nestbox for the house sparrows. This is probably not the best choice and may create a more dangerous situation for bluebirds. Pamela Ford's excellent observations shed light on what occurs between house sparrows and bluebirds in close proximity . . . bluebirds have difficulty defending their area (their box and any extras) and seem to be very uneasy in the presence of house sparrows. But monitor fear of house sparrow retaliation (as opposed to box takeovers) is reinforced by comments from other bluebirds. Whether others are regurgitating by rote or by their actual experience is anyone's guess. And that leads me back to my original question: From the Bluebird Monitor's Guide, (pg. 81): Pamela Ford wrote: ... Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 18:15:12 -0400 Dottie, If the hummers frequently see you very near or handling the feeder, it is certainly possible that they have learned to associate you with their treasured food source. If that is the case, they might even appear to "protect" you from a wasp. But this does not require emotion or conscious thought. The point here is that they are defending you as an extension of their food source, not because they are aware that wasps sting people, that the sting hurts, and that you will feel pain if they do not shoo off the wasp. Their behavior does not suggest that they empathize with your pain or that they "like" you, but rather that they have learned that you are connected to the food source that is important for their survival. If they come close to you when you are near the feeder and no wasps are present, it could be because they are trying to defend the feeder from you. If they come near you but do not seem to attack, then they have learned that you pose no threat, and simply want to get to the feeder. None of this requres emotion or conscious thought. Sorry this is becoming more and more remote from the original topic. Janet "Dottie, Hickory Hollow, Brown County, Indiana" wrote: "The Hummer was attacking an enemy! Do not give animals human traits. ... From: "Dottie, Hickory Hollow, Brown County, Indiana"
yumyumkatts"at"voyager.net OK, I can accept these statements. But I would like to say one more thing--if we only accepted Science what would happen to Faith. End of discussion. Dottie, Hickory Hollow ----- Original Message ----- ... Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 17:00:31 -0700 (PDT) Linda, I have witnessed the following: Box #1: male HOSP kills 5 EABL nestlings to claim box. He attracts a female who lays eggs. I boiled HOSP eggs for 3 weeks before the female abandons the nestbox (I did not remove nests in fear of the male moving to another box). Male HOSP approaches box #2 shortly after female HOSP leaves box #1. Box #2: TRES with eggs. TRES successfully defend the nest. Male HOSP approaches Box #3. Box #3: EABL empty nest. HOSP enters box before perching on top of it to call. Adult EABLs show up after several minutes to protect the box. HOSP flies to box #4 Box #4 has 5 EABL nestlings in it. Severe fighting between Blues and HOSP there. Remember that I was standing between boxes #2 and #3 all the time while all this was going on. Male HOSP returns to box #3 where he was eliminated. I dread to think what would have happened if the adults were not on the alert or if I didn't eliminate the male HOSP. The whole episode took probably 10-12 minutes. He did not seem to care that I was standing probably 30' from box #3 when he returned to it. This guy was already a proven killer. Each nestbox was at least 80 yards from the other. Purple Martins are community nesters. HOSP/EUST can cause a
lot of death quicky. Box #1 was the nestbox closest to the large
population of HOSP so that's why he claimed Box #1 first. When
Box #1 proved to be useless for procreating for whatever reason
that's when he looked elsewhere. Bob Sitarski a.k.a The Doctor Jackson County Indiana ( 38.5244N 86.023W ) & Clay County Illinois ( 38.4008N 88.2908W ) From: "D. H. Snook" dhsnook"at"sssnet.com Hi List, Many time I have seen the male HOSP kill the last EABL chick to fledge. Since the parents are busy tending to the chicks that did fledge, the HOSP was able to sneak in and kill the last chick. My conclusions from 5 years of this is that the male HOSP is just a rotten,mean creature. I have no thoughts of eliminating the HOSP from the planet, but with trapping and disposing of the MALE, the EABL and other native birds do have a chance to nest. I never remove a HOSP nest until the male has been trapped. If the parents of native birds are diligent, they will raise their brood successfully. If not, they won't. Putting up a nest box is a good thing. But if you do, you must manage the box. Otherwise it can become a death trap. D. H. Snook/Sondra R. Snook Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 20:08:24 -0700 Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. Doctor Bob's observations between his variety of house sparrows & eastern bluebirds is similar to what I observe in California on my western bluebird trail. Unfortunately, Bob DID NOT remove the house sparrow nest " . . . in fear of the male moving to another box." Unless others step forward with additional information, it
appears Steve Kroenke's report on nest-removal "rage"
does not apply to bluebirding. Now remember, I don't trap or kill house sparrows so I have the opportunity to observe the full sequence and time it takes for sparrows to finally give up their box after MULTIPLE nests are removed. All sparrows around my trails are free to go on rampages to their heart's desire if that is their inclination. But they haven't, thus far. Here's what I see: SIMPLE TAKEOVER: Stage II - NEST REMOVAL: Stage III - SPARROW ENLIGHTENMENT: NESTBOX REMOVAL: From: "ke4fej1" ke4fej1"at"email.msn.com Hi All, Good discussion going. First on the Hummingbird helper....Why not believe?.....That happening was certainly a moment to remember always. And brings such a happiness we can't force to have. Let those who do the studying say what they find...we tend to accept what we feel most times. It's one of those gut feelings. And that was a special one. We are not trying to scientific in that area anyway. Ya'll are BB Specialist! On the HOSP, I don't have the experience. But I have read for some weeks every post, and the truth is out there and growing. Week after week we all hear the pain of those losing their birds. Then we hear painful stories of the past. Even with the little I have been a part of in reading, the HOSP is doing great damage and causing a lot of pain, to the birds and to us. If I can believe anything now, and will preach it, is that the HOSP should not breed anymore and we...BBers should know better than to let it breed. I think Keith spoke well, when he said that those who have the nice HOSPs may have the 9 out of 10 who are not so bad. But that 1 out of 10 is doing damage. And could it be that it takes many events to get the HOSP to finally ..snap and go crazy. Like toss out one too many nest and that is the last straw! Bottom line the books of the past, present, and what is seen in action today, most of you agree the HOSP is a bad little bird. I wish the HOSP had been contolled at the start of the last century. And I wish that around the 1950's when found to be the cause of other bird counts declining, that an all out effort was made to decrease it's numbers. Now over 50 years later and the HOSP are everywhere, and it appears to me that only the BB Monitors are the ones helping by controlling. But what if you and the other Monitors in the past did not work at eliminating. What if it was really 100 to 200 years in the future. Would we have any song birds etc. left? Would we just have HOSP? It seems to me the HOSP would be the most common little bird. How and what would you do then to help the other birds? I would think there would be some serious eliminating of the HOSP. So why not be just as serious now. We can be the ones to make the greater change and now. Then those in the future won't have to dwell over having to make the decision of to... or not to... or how to. Yeah ..I have not killed a bird ...yet. But I am reading and preparing and asking questions. I own 3 different traps and a hat pin. I plan to be a responsable Monitor and overseer of other Monitors and do what has/needs to be done to bring back BBs and Purple Martins. ***Thank You for those who commented on my brainstorm of ...HOSP Trails or as one said The End of The Trail or I thought to call it Hole..istic HOSP Therapy. I also have been talking with those around me totally against killing the HOSP, but all those listening given some facts about the HOSP agree something should be done. They also feel that putting a pinhole in a HOSP egg would be acceptable, and understand what it is accomplishing by having it done. Christy Sarasota, FL From: "C & G Statton" statton"at"toolcity.net Chris Statton, Interesting discussion Re: HOSP retaliation. I'm wondering if part of the issue is proximity. I monitor boxes only in the yard v. a "trail" (being too OCD to have boxes I can't constantly see! - too terrified of HOSP). It has been many years since I last had a HOSP nesting. But . when I did . in my early years . I pulled nests and tossed eggs . and sent the HOSP directly to kill ALL of the baby blues and TRES in the entire yard. It really did appear that, if the HOSP couldn't have their nests, NO one could. After their killing, the HOSP never nested in any of those boxes - never even tried. Never ever again will I do (have I done) that! A .22 has been taking care of them for years now - they long ago figured out the near $500 worth of various traps hubby & I have bought or built over the years - and the monofilament. I once had TRES arrive for the season and start a nest. A bull
HOSP decided he wanted the box (in spite of empty neighboring
boxes). We took shots at him ... and missed. He was MIFFED.
He tried to stick with the box. He'd enter the box and stick
his head out and catch the male TRES by the beak - So . given that purple martins are colonial . i.e. nesting in close proximity to each other as well as close to the usurped apartments of HOSP nestings . . maybe HOSP are opportunistic 'lazy' killers. Perhaps they will rampage if targets are close enough but won't rampage if other nests are whatever the 'magic distance away' is. I don't have a clue as to what might be the 'magic distance away'. Personally, I'll never do the research to find out. All I can say is . solely from my experience, I'll back Steve's perspectives. Should a HOSP somehow manage to nest here . I'll CAREFULLY addle eggs and leave them . hoping to fool the HOSP until I can 'otherwise' take care of them. I'd be totally scared to death to pull a nest or smash eggs unless no one else is nesting in the yard!!! I am STILL looking for that gene-specific contraceptive birdseed. Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 06:27:46 -0500 At 03:25 PM 8/1/02 -0700, Linda Violett wrote: ... I don't consider that the house sparrow is out for "revenge" after his nest is removed. Rather, if the nest is removed several times, his instincts should tell him that is not a good spot and he will look for another. If there is a nestbox nearby, he may select it and will do what is necessary to claim it if there are already occupants. As a precaution, I don't remove sparrow nests if I have an active bluebird nest nearby, but will trap the sparrows, especially once they are incubating the eggs and really bonded to the box, they are easier to trap. Kate Oschwald From: "Keith & Sandy Kridler" kridler"at"1starnet.com Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas Linda states,"Yes, we know house sparrows will kill other birds. Yes, sparrows (if disturbed) will often take over a different box. And, sparrows will (of course!) kill during nestbox takeovers. All this we know as fact." I don't see that it matters if the sparrows kill one nestbox
filled with cavity nesters or will or will not go down and entire
"line" of nestboxes! Trail verses backyard boxes: Of course a sparrow is NOT going to go down the entire line of my nestboxes or Dean Sheldon's for they would have to cover hundreds of miles but they often will catch two and sometimes even three nestboxes and "reserve" them for a potential mate whether native birds are in there or not. In a back yard or small trail you can remove nesting material often enough to "discourage" these birds and force them to go elsewhere to nest. Looking at some of my box records where I have only removed sparrow nests once or twice a month I see that sparrows have held the box(es) for 6 months now without fledging young. Out of almost 300 nestboxes this year I have had only two bluebird nestboxes that have not had some nesting attempt so if a sparrow holds a box for 1 month it has probably robbed a native bird of the chance to nest this past spring. In order to help the native cavity nesters in the Eastern US you actually need to place "pods" of nestboxes (three or four per acre, paired or not depending on swallow competition.) On our 20 acres I now have up over 60 various sized nestboxes and I will fledge MORE chickadees and titmice from these 20 acres than the rest of the 240 widely scattered boxes I have covering a 600 square mile area of my "Bluebird Trail"! This is because bluebirds and sparrows can not use every box every month. Although I try to trap the sparrows using my nestboxes the majority of the sparrow nests are removed leaving the sparrows to rebuild. For me it is not feasible to try to train these birds to leave a nestbox and nest elsewhere. I try NOT to "regurgitate or repeat by rote" cavity nester information but base it on the 6,000 + nestbox years (300 + or - nestboxes monitored for the past 20 years) of experience along my trails just in the last 20 years. It is really great to exchange ideas and share what works across the country and what works for me does not apply to many others! What works on one side of town often does not work 20 miles away! What worked last year may not work 2 years from now! Put up enough boxes in enough different areas and you will develop the best monitoring techniques for your area! KK From: "Paula Ziebarth" PaulaZ"at"columbus.rr.com Paula Z. The discussion on HOSP revenge has brought up some interesting points. One of these is trapping. There are those that don't feel comfortable killing any creature - rat (as Phil lovingly calls them), or not. Linda seems rightfully concerned that in a highly public area, trapping would not be tolerated by the unenlightened majority. I do agree that this could be a problem if observed, but trapping can be done very inconspicuously - I would contend much more inconspicuously than smashing sparrow eggs in front of them (sparrow and/or park visitors). I also would not personally employ the egg smashing process because it may attract predators to the box location. The HOSP management I use on my trail is quite different than at my two little boxes at home. Part of how I manage trail is due to public perception; part of it is just plain laziness on my part - don't want to set a trap and walk back 150 yards to box again. My trail is in a public park. The trail is relatively small by most of your standards - only 21 boxes. I monitor boxes during the day sequentially and note what species are using box - I look for nesting material clues AND roosting clues. I keep screws in HOSP boxes backed out. I then return that evening or next (dusk or night) to HOSP boxes only, stick a rag in the entry hole, open box, reach in carefully blocking escape with other hand, and grab them. Thoracic compression, ziploc baggy (snack baggies save plastic), freezer, rehab center (after I get 10-20). I have captured 19 adults on trail this way this year. I've also gotten a few during the day. They really hunker down at night and often don't move so you really need to be bold once inside the nest and grab them. This means of "trapping" involves no overt trapping apparatus. I could have used in-box traps to capture some of these birds, but I personally don't leave in-box traps for longer than 30 minutes or so. Also, with an in-box trap, I would feel duty bound to watch and make sure what sort of bird went in there and dispatch or release him right away, depending on species. I don't like to see any animal suffer (except for a quick hug I guess if the wrong animal). So I haven't used in-box traps on trail due mostly to my laziness. I enjoy monitoring the trail, but haven't got all day. Additionally on trail, if HOSP does make nest near EABL or TRES, I leave nest until I can capture adult. If they get to egg laying stage, I swap with nonviable eggs, but still try to get female. This year (new to this), I have left nest for up to week after dispatching female, but have observed apparent nest desertion if either parent is destroyed. Advice from fellow listmembers and experienced trail monitors would be greatly welcome regarding this practice. HOSP laid 53 eggs on my trail this year. None of them hatched. My HOSP management at home is different. I employ very active HOSP control here. I only have 2 boxes on 1/3 acre suburban lot and can watch them from comfort of my air conditioned home (yeah, I'm lazy - told you before). Evening nabbings and in-box traps are used as soon as a male HOSP shows interest in a box. I captured 13 adults using these methods this year. I have had much more success with two small hav-a-hart traps, baiting them with cheap birdseed and cracked corn, capturing 25 adults. HOSP laid no eggs at my home - never given the chance. I have tried for past 5 years, but this is the first year I have successfully fledged 3 broods of EABL from my small lot. I attribute the success to two things: active HOSP control and mealworm supplementation. I have seen the EABL defending their box a few times from the HOSP. HOSP gets tired and decides to have a little snack in that attractive little metal tunnel thing and BAM - got him. HOSP trapping also freed up back box for a pair of EABL to finally have a chance to have a brood (just fledged 2 weeks ago) simultaneously with their buddies in front yard. I believe the mealworm supplementation keeps them closer to the box so they can keep a better eye on marauding HOSP and defend their young and themselves. With these practices, I have only lost one EABL fledgling this season and not sure what happened there. Any suggestions for better management or comments from experienced trail monitors appreciated. Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 11:45:17 -0700 (PDT) Linda, As far as going down the line and destroying nest after nest I didn't have a line of nestboxes for this to happen to so in that respect I can't help you. But a couple of years ago on this list I remember asking one of the more experienced Bluebirders to PLEASE explain how when you remove a HOSP nest containing eggs or babies and you have an active Bluebird nest close by that you are running a risk of that HOSP retaliating against your Bluebirds. I asked them to do this because at the time I had an active bluebird nest in my yard. We had our boat out at the barn and decided to move it up by the house to clean it and get it ready for summer. In the tongue of the boat trailer there was a HOSP nest with babies, we didn't know it was there. When we hooked up the boat and moved it to the house it put the boat within 20 or 25 ft. of the Bluebird nestbox that contained eggs. We destroyed the HOSP nest when moving the boat. The next day all the Bluebird eggs were scattered over the ground under the nestbox and each day there after when the female laid an egg it would be destroyed by the days end and the nest was finally abandoned. I read several posts that season on how newbies would find HOSP nest close to there Bluebirds and they would destroy the nests(as I did) only to have their Bluebird eggs or babies destroyed. This prompted me to ask some of the more experienced Bluebirders on the list to PLEASE help and explain to the new people on our list what kind of risk they are raising for their bluebirds when they destroy the HOSP nests. It seemed there were several of us that had to learn the hard way that year. I don't know where those people are now but I do remember reading the posts and asking someone to advise us on the matter. I do think that this is something that should be discussed and explained from time to time on the list for the new bluebirders. Kerry in NE corner of Okla. --- Linda Violett lviolett"at"earthlink.net wrote: But monitor fear of house sparrow retaliation (as opposed ... From: "carol fitzpatrick" gdfitzmich"at"msn.com Bob, I can understand Linda's dilemma. Apparently there are animal rights activists in the park government who don't allow the elimination of HOSP's. The kicker is that it's perfectly legal in America to get rid of them just like you'd get rid of mice and rats. It's too bad for her but that's politics. That must be frustrating and I see why she would like to find a way of helping the bluebirds while addressing the HOSP problem. But it seems to me that some people on the list are perhaps getting somewhat liberal in their feelings about HOSP, such as Karen who said her neighbors have been raising them for 18 years with virtually no problems and Janet who says we should consider letting the sparrows cull out the more passive bluebirds. In Karen's case, the math just doesn't work out. Where have all those HOSP's babies gone for the past 18 years? They reproduce faster and have more clutches than our native cavity nesting birds. Perhaps her neighbors have been removing nests and not telling her, or the baby sparrows have been going into someone else's yard and nesting there behind the loose siding or in that dense grapevine only to resurface sometime in the futureand wreak havoc. I know that HOSP prefer the dark recesses of the bluebird nest box even though they can nest just about anywhere. If there is a bluebird nest box around they will try to take it. 18 years is a long time to breed many sparrows even though not all fledglings make it to adulthood. I've seen the possibilities of future sparrow reproduction from just one pair (on a previous Bluebird-L post) and it is astronomical. More HOSP equal more competition for nesting sites which in turn awakens the aggression in their brains (I find it hard to believe that Karen's neighbors sparrows have a non-aggressive gene that we don't know about.) In any case I believe that when HOSP are allowed to reproduce they only become someone else's problem. As for Janet P's assertion that HOSP be allowed to cull out the more pass ive bluebirds, well I've seen valiant male bluebirds aggressively try to drive away a male house sparrow by chasing and sometimes (but not often) catching and pinning him to the ground but it stops there. It's outside of the box and I doubt that a sparrow would try to kill a bluebird outside of the box either. Inside the box is a different story. The HOSP has all the advantages: smaller, quicker and the chisel beak. They can kill brooding female bluebirds because of this and because the sparrow's body blocks the escape hole. With the bluebird having the larger body and longer wings she hasn't got a chance. And besides that, the sparrow does the equivalent of a sucker punch: No warning of his impending attack. Bluebirds just don't have the physiological makeup to be more than what they are. Even if bluebirds were more aggressive against HOSP, you couldn't imagine them taking over a HOSP nest box because they'd get totally lost inside the sparrow's huge ball nest if they tried to enter. Bluebirds nests are so much smaller and easy for the HOSP to maneuver around inside when he goes in for the kill. So I'm not cutting the House Sparrows any slack. I think they
are a marvelous species for their ability to survive and thrive
but my admiration stops there. I'm going to keep exercising
my rights under the law and will continue to keep their exploding
population under control as much as I can. As always, I am discreet
when I am eliminating a house sparrow. It 's not something I
flaunt, it's just something that I must do to even out the playing
field for our native cavity nesters. It's a sobering thought
that no matter how much we do for them, there will never, ever
be as many bluebirds, tree swallows, chickadees, etc. as there
are house sparrows Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 21:51:04 -0700 Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. Carol and All, Even if it were feasible to trap/kill sparrows in our public parks, I simply can't bring myself to do it. I've had a sparrow in hand--mentally prepared to kill it--but emotionally could not. It might be a different story if that was my only option. However, my established 40-box trail no longer has a sparrow problem and no trapping was involved (no real answers, it just is). But this year, I've been trying to clean up problem areas on other trails. The challenge has been a park in Los Angeles County (La Mirada Park). It is a very active park with swimming pool, tennis courts, an adjacent high school, frisbee golf in the green spaces, joggers. Susan Bulger and I co-monitor the boxes and try not to draw attention because boxes have been stolen and vandalized. But our boxes hang about 15 feet high amongst the branches of trees and we must carry a lifter box and swimming pool pole around the park. This automatically draws curious eyes to what we are doing. Thus, we get up about 5am each Saturday morning in order to be at the park (next county) ahead of the crowds because nestboxes in this park. I can't even imagine trying to fit trapping into the scant pre-crowd time slot. In the last few days, there have been some excellent after-dark trapping suggestions but this HOSP problem park is a 40-minute drive from my home--can't just mosey over there after dinner each night to pull sparrows out of the traps. There are so many house sparrows, trapping would be futile. Apparently, I have not been able to convey the amount of sparrows we have in our area. Even though I won't be trapping, I found your observations
and comments very interesting; and I particularly enjoyed your
ending comments on the advantage of house sparows moving about
in a smaller box (the flip side is the *disadvantage* to bluebirds
in small boxes). I completely agree. Carol Fitz wrote: ... Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 05:39:42 -0400 Hi Carol, I like your comment that "bluebirds just don' thave the physiological makeup to be more than what they are." I'd like to respond to that. Keep in mind that domesticated animals such as cows, pigs, sheep, goats, and chickens are all now much more or much less (depending on how you look at it) than what their wild ancestors once were. This gives testimony to just how profound the results can be when humans interfere with the biologic pressures of the natural environment. When we regularly employ a monitoring practice, such as feeding mealworms, eliminating predators, removing blowfly larvae, etc. we are directly affecting who lives and who dies. Given that bluebirds are largely dependent on our nestboxes for reproduction, we are involved with almost 100% of them during the breeding period. Thus, it is quite possible for our actions to have profound consequences on this species. After many years of our involvement, bluebirds might well become much more or much less than what they are. I do not mean to suggest that we should immediately abandon all monitoring, but rather that we keep this in mind, and "monitor" our own actions with these birds. Janet carol fitzpatrick wrote: Bob,I'm glad that you were able to give your account of a house ... From: "Karen Louise Lippy" brdbrain"at"superpa.net Hi Carol, When this couple started the program, a ranger was coordinating the program and he would pull the sparrows from the box, making the monitoring couple very angry. When I took over, I warned them again and again about how house sparrows can and do kill other birds, but I established the "you decide how you want to monitor, I'll be here if you need me, policy." I hated to see the sparrows in the boxes. When I was monitoring the trail next to them, and a bluebird hen was killed on the nest by a sparrow, I took the nest, corpse and all and showed them the result. They never say anything in return, but continue to raise sparrows and all else. I work at the park. I see the sparrows on the boxes everyday. I am not happy about it. I did kill the sparrow that killed my bluebird hen. I never again had another sparrow in a box while I monitored that trail. A few years ago the naturalist took over this trail and he did have some problems with sparrows. He pulled nests for a few weeks. End of problem. If you come to our park, you will see bluebirds everywhere, but if you look in the sailboat area, you will see sparrows on and in boxes with bluebirds very near by. House sparrows are adaptable. But you don't seem to think they have any predators/competitors that will eliminate them. They do. They also suffer from parasites. Many sparrows do die natural deaths. I have read there is a theory that only 20 percent of birds that fledge from the nest will live to return the next year. I can't see why sparrows would be any different than other species in this respect. Sparrows can and do kill birds in this region. But after seeing what happened in these 17 boxes over a long period of time, I must now admit when I present a program that the information that I once thought gospel "that sparrows will kill or outcompete all native birds if allowed to nest in our boxes" is not always true. I look forward to the day NABS holds a conference in PA and I can host all of you on a visit to our trail. Karen from South Central PA From: "Cheryl Rindfleisch" rindfleisch12"at"hotmail.com I am soooo late, But I would like to share my experience this summer and I hope I'm not beating a dead horse here.... I do not believe that "wild" animals understand revenge (unlike mankind). 2002 EABL results: 13 eggs, 4 hatchlings, 0 fledglings. My 1st EABL nest hatched 4 (believe stray cat killed mother too soon thereafter). During nesting time, nearby HOSP with 5 eggs. Removed all but 1 egg... kept them commited to their family of 1 egg. I believed that if they did not have that 1 egg to raise, they may have destroyed the neighboring competitor. EABL made 2 more nest attempts in vacant houses. All 8 eggs
destroyed by House wrens. The wrens had not reason to seek revenge
as they were never But I also agree with Dottie, I think these animals know a lot more than we think. If only we could understand THEIR language... wouldn't that be a hoot! Also, my no-loose end mono-line config. (better late than never) was 100% successful in keeping HOSPs out!. Take care all... sure isquiet around here with all the empty nests. Even my "wren" alarm left. Soooo quiet. I haven't been to work on time since! Cheryl R. 2002 Stats: 4 Tree swallows, 6 wrens (box #2) and 3 known natural HOWR nests + 2 families from "blind" box. HOWR fledglings are adorable too. Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2002 22:13:50 -0700 (PDT) I purchased Birder's World at Lowes and just happened to read
the article on the Mute Swan, a non-native bird, getting federal
protection in the courts system. The end of the article made
mention that this win, therorically opens the door for possible
federal protection for European starlings and English sparrows...if
it happens...then how are we going to help the bluebirds and
all other cavity-dwelling birds in the U.S.? Anyone got suggestions
on how to procede??? From: "Bruce Burdett" blueburd"at"tds.net Can anyone suggest an address or addresses to whom one might write an effective protest against the rumored federal protection of the European Starling and the House Sparrow? First, of course, one must ascertain with certainty that such legisation is being contemplated seriously , as the magazine article suggests. We wouldn't want any legislator to get an idea he hadn't already thought of. And, looking ahead, supposing that these two pests ARE ultimately protected, I must start pondering two choices; 1.) should I cease my extermination efforts, or, 2.) should I go to prison? Bruce Burdett, SW NH. P.S.: I wonder if any legislators are considering legislation to protect the Norway Rat? Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2002 12:23:18 -0400 Hi All, Has anyone ever seen house sparrows nesting in a natural tree cavity? If so, how many times have you seen this? Does anyone see this on a regular basis? Can you describe the habitat, colony size, and nearest human-made structure? Has anyone ever had house sparrows try to nest in bluebird boxes in an area remote from any kind of human dwellings? By "remote", I mean that there is no human dwelling or other human-made structure within, say, a half mile radius of the boxes, as best as you can determine. If so, I'd appreciate it if you can describe the nestbox trail/situation/habitat, how serious the sparrow problem was/is, how far away the nearest human-made structure was/is, and how far away the nearest house sparrow colony was/is. Have any of you ever seen house sparrows using weaver finch type nests in a similarly remote area? If so, can you describe habitat, colony size, nearest human-made structure? Janet Pesaturo Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2002 09:23:38 -0700 Dear Darrell and friends, If this federal legislation to protect non native European Starlings and the House Sparrows is true, then we are in big trouble! When I talk to people about the pleasures and benefits of cavity nesting birds like Barn Owls, American Kestrels, Screech Owls, Bluebirds, Tree and Violet Green Swallows just to name a few, I also tell them about the non native European Starlings and House Sparrows and how they impact our native birds and how they damage crops. Noise making and other non lethal devices only push the pests onto someone else and do not eliminate the problem. If you have ever seen the handy work of a male House Sparrow who opened up the skulls of 3 baby Violet Green Swallows inside a nest box or a European Starling pressuring a native out of it's nest site or hordes of European Starlings descending on a vineyard then you know how utterly stupid and irresponsible such legislation can be. As distasteful as it is, trapping and destroying these destructive pests is truly the only answer. I did a web search and I found a company web site called Bird Barrier http://www.birdbarrier.com/ which has a good listing of non lethal methods of dealing with pest birds, but more important gives a good general description on each pest species. Check it out if you want to know more about the above pests. Yes, we need to stand as a body to protect our native birds from such legislative stupidity. However, who do we contact to stop it before it happens? Furthermore, should we develop a form letter, or a petition or just have everyone mail a letter? Plus, who will take our cause to the bench or should we bus a large group in?. The last thing that we would want is a lone voice in front of a bunch of stony faced do nothing politicians, but a large body of people would get their attention. Anyway, I'm with Bruce on this one “ 1.) should I cease my extermination efforts, or, 2.) should I go to prison?” Lets see if we can get to the heart of this issue and as always... Happy Bluebird Trails To You, Darrell wrote: I purchased Birder's World at Lowes and just happened to read the ... Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2002 14:10:31 -0400 It would be my thought that any kind of protection for these alien birds would be vigorously opposed by the professionals in the public health community, by municipal administrators and by agriculturalists at all levels. In fact, I believe that our nestbox concerns would pale in comparison to those registered by these groups, individually, and collectively. Anyone who has ever encountered a huge winter Starling roost in the heart of a major urban center knows exactly what I am talking about. In this case, concerns over public health, safety and welfare would prevail over the screams of those who would seek to protect these vermin. In my opinion, we are flapping before we need to flap. Dean Sheldon, Ripley Township, Huron County, Ohio [just south of Lake Erie] From: "judymellin" judymellin"at"netzero.net I did not see this article but, knowing what must be done to put any species on the threatened and/or endangered list, I would have serious doubts about this. I do not remember the fights over bald eagles and other birds of prey when they were threatened by DDT but I have read about that fight. The amount of time and effort- not to mention expense- would seem to preclude this. I could almost understand a fight to protect mute swans because people think they are beautiful birds. If anyone saw the recent report on ABC News about the damage they have done to the Outer Banks and the plans to reduce their numbers, I think we will see that protection is a very long way away. Judy Mellin ----- Original Message ----- ... From: "Pat Foley" removed at users request I have to agree. The current administration has frozen the
endangered species list, even refusing to add critical species
in need of protection to it. I can't see any action being taken
to protect EUST/HOSP. Pat in MD ----- Original Message ----- ... From: "MJShearer" eshearer"at"attbi.com If anything, we may get a little support in HOSP control efforts because house sparrows have been identified as a host of the West Nile Virus!.... MJ (Mary Jane Shearer; Tucker, GA) ----- Original Message ----- ... From: "Keith & Sandy Kridler" kridler"at"1starnet.com Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas Just last year the House Sparrows built a nest in the top of a power pole less than 200 feet east of my property in an old woodpecker cavity. I have had tree trimmers bring me old trees with cavities that contained House Sparrow nests. Normally Starlings take over most of the tree cavities in early spring and use them until mid June. I cannot think of anywhere in North East Texas where you could place a nestbox or find a tree that was at least a half mile from a "human made" structure. I lived next to a 1200 acre ranch in the early 1980's and placed a nestbox on a tree right in the middle one year and had house sparrows nest but cattle men don't want their stock to have to go more than 1/2 mile for food or water and there were feeders for mineral ETC. within sight and also a human house could be seen about 1/2 mile away. Even the 30,000 acre Broseco ranch east of our county has barns and buildings and other structures scattered around the land. They probably have about a hundred automatic deer feeders throwing out corn twice a day. The topic about sparrows building their traditional "Weaver finch" nests in the open crossed the list early this year and in a one month period I decided to "look" for them & located "colonies" in five different areas, all near buildings as I didn't walk anywhere this year in Texas more than a 1/2 mile from a building and they built anywhere from 4 feet off of the ground to 45 feet in the air. The smallest colony was a single nest 18 feet off of the ground in a small sweet gum tree and the highest was 9 nests in a very large dead Sycamore tree at a landscape nursery (there were martin houses available for them to nest in!) The largest colony appeared to have nearly 100 nests in a thick shrubbery several hundred feet long between the interstate highway and a busy access road in Greenville Texas. I am curious now if there are any places left in America where these birds can find available water, available trees that support natural cavities AND a year around supply of the grass seeds needed to sustain them AND there NOT be a man made structure within a 1/2 miles of this location??? Germany now has over 400 people per square mile (640 acres) on average. What do some of the states where the bluebird is common have as a people per square mile average? KK Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 13:31:49 -0400 Haleya Priest Amherst MA However, the one good thing that could come out of this is
perhaps a larger AWARENESS by the general public about the damage
these alien birds cause. Not just to industries, etc but to
our native cavity nesters!!!!! :-) H It would be my thought that any kind of protection for these alien birds would be vigorously opposed by the professionals in the public health community, by municipal administrators and by agriculturalists at all levels. In fact, I believe that our nestbox concerns would pale in comparison to those registered by these groups, individually, and collectively. Anyone who has ever encountered a huge winter Starling roost in the heart of a major urban center knows exactly what I am talking about. In this case, concerns over public health, safety and welfare would prevail over the screams of those who would seek to protect these vermin. In my opinion, we are flapping before we need to flap. Dean Sheldon, Ripley Township, Huron County, Ohio [just south
of Lake Erie] Haleya Priest mablue"at"gis.net
From: "Gary Springer" springer"at"alltel.net Gary Springer Carnesville, Ga The recent conversation about hummingbird sightings in parts of the world where none are supposed to be reminds me that it appears a little shortsighted to call some species indigenous and others exotic. Certainly man has expedited the spread of many species, but, it seems to me that without the influence of man, every species of plant and animal would eventually have the opportunity to inhabit every part of the globe. We refer to as exotic those species that were unknown to a geographic area at some early time. But, it is quite possible that ten thousand years before that early time we are using as a benchmark, many of the species we call indigenous had yet to arrive. Who is to say that the China Berry tree, Kudzu, the House Sparrow or any other exotic species would not have eventually found its way to North America, even without help from man? If introduction of any of these species occurred before written history we would consider them indigenous, not exotic? Logs, sticks, twigs, seeds and other solid masses can float across the oceans and cause insects and plants to spread to other continents. Storms can also push quantities of living matter long distances through the air. Although rare, it even rains fish. While the odds of these occurrences may be very low, on an active planet, time wears away the miniscule odds of an occurrence until they approach certainty. It may at first be a little difficult to agree that some exotic species would have eventually arrived in North America without mans assistance, but, what about small viruses and insects that are now being blamed for destroying large areas of forest? The odds of these smaller organisms finding their own way to our continent are so great that it seems possible some of these may have been here all along but contained by other viruses and insects that are among the hundreds of now extinct species that were unable to survive our azzzult on the environment....... Gary Springer Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 10:33:51 -0400 Hi All, Here's another long-winded hypothetical piece that is completely useless to your day to day bluebirding activities. Now's a good time to click delete if that does not appeal. It's part of a discussion with Bruce MacDonald about higher tech methods of sparrow and starling control. I thought it might interest some of you. Bruce, I agree completely that our current methods of trapping sparrows and starlings, or marching out like Elmer Fudd to blast 'em to smithereens will never amount to a hill o' beans. I am not a molecular biologist, so I'm really not qualified to answer your question about using genetic engineering techniques to control pest birds, but I doubt it will ever happen. It would be tremendously expensive, time consuming, and complicated. I can imagine that one big drawback to such an approach would be the unpredictability of the results. Eradication of either species could result, and this might be undesirable (see below). I don't know how you could use a virus in the way you suggest without affecting other avian species as well. Even if there is a way, you'd have to convince the people who dole out the research grants that controlling or eradicating these 2 species is a priority, which I don't think would happen. Reducing their populations could probably be accomplished with simpler technology than genetic engineering. On the other hand, I do think that the key to making a significant dent in the populations of these "pests" will be something more sophisticated than a nestbox trap or a gun. The two things I've been thinking about are irradiation of their reproductive tracts and the use of pheromones. I once read about the use of radiation in controlling a specific insect pest called the screw worm fly. A large population of males were irradiated to make them infertile. They were then released to mate with females, who of course, produced no offspring. The strategy worked like a charm, but when applied to any other insect pest, it somehow failed. Here's the reason (as best as I can recall): it turns out that screw worm flies (I can't think of a more ironic name for this bug) are one of the few purely monogamous and monandrous species on the planet. Once the female bonds with her male, she stands by him, and only him, even if their union results in no young. Evidently a lot of philandering goes on among both males and females of most other insect species (and among most birds and mammals, contrary to popular belief), so to significantly reduce a population, you'd have to irradiate a huge, huge number of individuals. So irradiation is not practical in controlling insect numbers, but insects number in the gazillions. Maybe it would be practical to use this strategy to reduce local populations of sparrows and starlings. They like to "fool around" too, so you'd have to zap a large fraction of them to keep them busy with fruitless labor throughout a breeding season, but maybe the numbers would be manageable. Don't know if anyone has evaluated this. While there is nothing novel about using pheromones to manipulate animal behavior, the use of it in birds is purely hypothetical at this point Recent research is revealing that birds can and do use their sense of smell, and at least one avian species appears to make use of social odors. Since we now know that they can smell, it seems unlikely that they wouldn't make use of it for breeding purposes, like other animals do. Research is also revealing that avian olfaction is most acute during the breeding period. It might seem like a long way off, since we haven't even established that sparrows and starlings, in particular, use pheromones, but if and when it pans out, it could provide an extremely simple way to manipulate their breeding behavior. Controlling their numbers is one thing, but the possibility of completely eradicating either "pest" concerns me. It might be naive to assume that if we could suddenly rid the continent of sparrows and starlings, then "nature" would be restored, and our backyards would all be graced with beautiful bluebirds and red-headed woodpeckers. In additoin to introducing sparrows and starlings, we've changed the landscape and the balance of flora and fauna quite a bit. Eradicating sparrows and starlings wouldn't turn back the clock. We, and all our vices, would still be here. How can we know what would happen to the current balance, and which species would fill the niches that are now occupied by these two "pests"? Perhaps some different species, avian or other, native or non-native, would emerge as pests. We've been known to label native species as pests, and to persecute them much as we do sparrows and starlings. In my view, a "pest" species is one which makes life inconvenient or unpleasant for us in some way. The word is arbitrarliy applied to both native and non-native species, as it suits our needs and justifies our actions. A "pest" is something that makes us itchy or sick, eats our crops or our livestock, or comes uninvited into our houses, or makes the prettier birds less numerous. Maybe those two little devils that we know are better than the ones we don't know. Who's to say.... And then, of course, it's human nature to value the rarities. I can just see people setting up nestboxes to bring back the house sparrows, if efforts ever succeed in getting their numbers down. Janet Pesaturo From: "Fread J" firefrost2"at"hotmail.com Information on studies completed and ongoing in England reveal some astonishing population declines in Passer domesticus (Common House Sparrow). Scientists participating in these studies are finding it difficult to fully explain the mechanics of this dramatic population change. Within the city of London, it is estimated that nearly a 60% loss in population has occurred within the past six years! Similar losses have occurred sporadically across the country side. One possible reason investigators give, is new changes in farming practices including: sowing of cereal grain crops in the fall instead of the normal spring planting; cleaner farm yards; and the use of bird-proof storage of grain crops. While this may explain some of the slow decline that has been seen over the past two decades, it does not account for dramatic reductions and even entire extinctions of local populations. The current study has shown that P. domesticus population levels do have a "critical population level" which when exceeded, causes population collapse. The science journal NATURE, in its August 29th, 2002 edition,
as well as the website of Sciencematrix.com have short articles
upon this phenomena and is where I extracted this information. From: Jennabirds"at"aol.com In a Message dated 10/11/02 12:08:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
Contrary to the belief of some folks who are way out of tune
with David A. Magness From: "carol fitzpatrick" gdfitzmich"at"msn.com Fred, I understand that not all house sparrows are as aggressive as others, but from my observations and hands-on experience (no pun intended) there are more of the mean ones than the nice ones. I do know that House sparrows breed more often than bluebirds and other native cavity nesters, and take less time to do it. They will nest almost anywhere and can eat almost anything. For most of them their instinct to procreate is done so at all costs. Since I can't tell which house sparrow is going to be nice and which one is going to scalp bluebirds, I have decided to take my own form of pre-emptive strikes to level out the playing field. I destroy house sparrows and their nests whenever I can. If your sparrows are nicer in PA. I sure wish you could send some of them to Michigan. But I don't believe they are. I know from my experience that house sparrows instinctively dominate whenever possible. If you're not having sparrow problems I wonder if some of the monitors in your park are doing a little sparrow control, be it passive such as removing their nests. Those who believe in house sparrow control are not in touch with nature you say? Well, nature implies "natural" and yes house sparrows are a formof nature... just not in this country. They are an acquired, artificial form to what is the natural fauna here in America. So who is out of touch with "nature" here, you or I? Now I don't hate house sparrows...they're just little brown birds acting upon their instincts. They don't have a conscience. But there are untold MILLIONS of them thriving in every nook and cranny they can find in the city and they sure don't need my help. As a utility company worker whotravels throughout three counties, I see how well they're doing. Let them stay in the city but they are not welcome in the nest boxes which I monitor in the rural areas. Carol Fitz House Sparrow Philosphy, Part 10 |
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