Problems with house sparrows on the bluebird trail (Part 11)

Passive (Biological/Behavioral) Control
Factors that Encourage or Discourage HOSPs (House Sparrows)

Also see other HOSP information under Active Control, Philosophy, Lime, General, Disposal, etc.

In addition to Messages that have appeared in the Bluebird Mailing Lists on this topic, the following are on the Audubon Society of Omaha website: 

• Minimum diameter for House Sparrow entry by Frank Navratil
• House Sparrows by Steve Eno
• The Active and Passive Bluebirders by Bluebird Bob Walshaw and Jim McLochlin

-----Original Message-----
From: Bet Zimmerman [mailto:ezdz"at"charter.net]
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 10:01 AM
To: bluebird-l"at"cornell.edu
Subject: house sparrow proof or resistant nestboxes

In response to the recent question about sparrow resistant boxes (for those who have not seen previous threads on this topic):

There is currently no such thing as a "sparrow proof" nestbox, despite any claims you might read.
Any nestbox that can be entered by a bluebird can be entered by a house sparrow (HOSP), because house sparrows are smaller.

There are some boxes that sparrows do not PREFER. However, be aware that even though HOSP may not prefer to nest in them, but they may still enter them for the purposes of attack. Also, one of the reasons that HOSP as so successful as an invasive species is that they are very adaptable. If populations are high or nesting sites are limited, they may still nest in these "sparrow resistant"
boxes. (Unfortunately, bluebirds also do not prefer some of these "sparrow resistant" boxes.)

Perhaps the two most commonly nestboxes styles cited as NOT being preferred by house sparrows are the Gilbertson (see http://www.gilbertsonnestbox.com/ - this box is made from a PVC tube) and the slot box (and it's variations - see http://www.sialis.org/nestboxproscons.htm#slot.) Some have had success with a two-hole box. Some have had success with the newer Gilwood design (also by Steve
Peterson) - I did not notice any deterrent effect on my trail with this box. Nobody I know of has had luck deterring house sparrows with the design espoused by Birds & Blooms - the Carrier/Slant box (long horizontal box with hole on the bottom.)

Bet from CT

More info on this topic at http://www.sialis.org/hosp.htm#nestboxtype. A sparrow spooker (http://www.sialis.org/sparrowspooker.htm ) really DOES work, but you have to wait until the first bluebird egg is laid to put it up.

PS There was a guy in Long Island who was working on a box design that apparently had a lever that the bird stepped on. If the bird wasn't the approximate weight of a bluebird, the entrance hole didn't open. Same deal apparently for getting out. Of course there are all kinds of potential problems with this set up (like it getting stuck closed with a bird/babies inside.) A friend told me they gave up on the box, and it was only used by paper wasps anyway. I emailed the person working on it, but have not heard back.

I remember reading one of our Bluebird Ambassador’s (Keith Kridler) posts recently reminding us that house sparrows are really Eurasian Weaver Finches. I thought of Keith’s post when I was driving through San Antonio, Texas and saw 20-50 house sparrow nests in woven, trash infested nests in every Bradford Pear tree in the median of numerous San Antonio highways.

I remembered Bet Zimmerman’s post about house sparrows not minding lights when I found hundreds cheeping in the Bradford Pear trees in a Best Western/Hooters/Arby’s parking lot in Breaux Bridges, Louisiana at 11 PM.

Do Bradford Pear trees attract and provide habitat for house sparrows or is there a lack of cavities in these locations? This isn’t a serious question, just an interesting observation.

Rob Barron

From: Keith & Sandy Kridler [mailto:txbluebirder"at"sbcglobal.net]
Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 8:01 AM
Subject: Re: House Sparrow behavior

… Starlings are learning to roost in the super structure between huge double sided billboards along interstates and major highways. No four legged predator can climb the massive steel pipe holding up these signs. Hawks and owls have trouble flying through the many supporting/connecting bars giving them a safe spot to sleep.

Purple Martins are seen nesting in towns and cities more now than in secluded rural areas due to the predation from four legged and flying predators.

House Sparrows nest by the hundreds in between the median in Greenville Texas where they use Vitex trees a very drought resistant deciduous, very twiggy small tree. Between busy traffic lanes almost no predators can survive crossing over the highway and few people will allow snakes and such to survive in the cities. Further out west you see House Sparrows nesting in Mesquite trees in towns and in areas around people houses with few or no natural cavities and no bird houses.

At my bank in Mt. Pleasant nearly every Bradford Pear tree is filled with bird nests and Mockingbirds and House Sparrows seem to share the same nesting trees with each other. At one of our burger houses the House Sparrows use the Yaupon Holly trees/thick bushes to build their nests in. I see them build in Sweet gum trees near apartment housing complexes. We got called a couple of years ago to remove the sparrows nesting in trees near a parking lot and in the rafters of a building. I felt that placing about 30 nestboxes with Van Ert Traps in them and around the area would rid the building of these pests in a few weeks. After two months we only trapped ONE house Sparrow. It seems that sparrows nesting in real weaver nests in trees and shrubs and those nesting in the rafters of the buildings were NOT interested in using nestboxes. Even those attached to the walls of buildings and located in the rafters of the buildings.

Someone mentioned a weight specific nestbox perch for House Sparrows. When I was trapping sparrows for the University of Texas for a research project, freshly trapped House Sparrows weighted almost exactly the same as five USA quarters (money). If they were stressed and kept in a small cage they could quickly lose 1/4 of their body weight. Sparrows that refused to eat or drink often would die within 24 hours and they would lose between 1/4 and 1/3 of their body weight during this period. Some remained happy in captivity and these maintained their body weight.

I would place the birds in the toe section that I cut off of panty hose and weighed them on a gunpowder scale used in reloading ammunition. These scales weight in Grains with 7,000 Grains to the pound. You can then convert to Grams if you wish. Once the House Sparrows were in the toe of the sock it held them gently but firmly and they quickly quit struggling if placed upside down on their backs allowing the scale to operate and center correctly. In commercial poultry operations they weight chickens by placing them upside down in a tight fitting mesh bag and then quickly hang the bag from a weight scale with a hook.

Commercial chicken operations seldom have House Sparrows or Starlings around them anymore because all houses are tightly wired with plastic coated wire mesh to keep out birds. Automatic ventilation fans kill any birds trying to enter or exit the buildings through fan shutters. Feed is now delivered in bulk and run into bulk grain bins by truck augers. Spilled grain is swept up during delivery to minimize the number of wild birds coming to these houses. Spilled grain attracts wild hogs and wild hogs wreck havoc on chickens and property when they break into these broiler houses. KK

I just pass this along for what it's worth. We were inundated with HOSP for years til we discovered that they were roosting in the ivy covering an old out-building.

When the ivy was taken down, the HOSP left for parts unknown, even though we have plenty of big evergreens for them to roost in.

Sara Ann Wright
Thayer MO

From: KatieDidCottage"a"aol.com [mailto:KatieDidCottage"a"aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 2:36 PM
Subject: New member of list

Hi everyone,

I just joined this list today and really have nothing to offer, but will be reading and getting an education for a while and didn't want to be a lurker.

What sparked my current interest in bluebirds is a couple of eastern bluebirds who checked out a bird house in my yard a few weeks ago, but they changed their mind. Then after a little reading and looking, I recognized that house sparrows were starting to build a nest there, so I cleaned out the nest and plugged the hole for now. Until I can get the time to figure out a little more how to do it right and safe for the bluebirds, I'll keep the house plugged. I don't want to inadvertently contribute to the problem of house sparrows.

Thanks for all the information I've already been getting on your list!

Warmest regards,
Katie from Mississippi

From: Dereth Vardaman [mailto:dcvardaman"at"cableone.net]
Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 7:32 PM
Subject: Sparrow Spookers

I want to try using Sparrow Spookers - What does one use? Would like suggestions.
Thanks - Dee -- Anniston, Al.

Dee, I recycle potato chip bags - the foil kind. Works great, and they're free! I also make use of plastic and copper pipes and plumbing elbows. They're not fancy, but they do the trick.

There are pictures and descriptions of various types here:
http://www.bluebirdnut.com/Competitors.htm (click on "what is a sparrow spooker", just below the written text is a chart with photos).

Cher

another good sparrow spooker is those shiny happy birthday banners that your
local dollar store sells.

=) joy m. in cedar springs, michigan =)

You are quicker on the uptake than most of the old-timers of this List by adding the extra "escape" hole.
Even though I can think of no drawback to adding the second hole on the face of the box, most folks prefer to add a slurry of ventilation holes at the upper sides of the box rather than add an extra escape hole.

It has not yet been scientifically proven that Bluebirds use the second hole as an escape. In fact, Keith Kridler says his birds will not use an escape hole because they fight to the death during a House Sparrow attack.

But Western Bluebirds on my trail aren't as gallant as Keith's. Under a
HOSP attack, nestlings/eggs may be lost to HOSP, but the adults will live to nest again and seem to learn how to overcome House Sparrows.

Linda Violett
Yorba Linda, Calif.

... introducing a new Bluebird couple with eggs in the nest to a Sparrow Spooker for the first time.

This couple is atypically skittish and distrustful. They've accepted my mealworm offerings, but usually fly out of sight when I enter the yard, and don't return until they're sure I'm safely ensconced back inside "The Big Nestbox".

Yesterday there was an egg in the slot box - the one box I have that's never been used. I kind of wish they hadn't used it this time, either.
I'd intended to replace that box with a better design last fall, but never got around to it. Now the Blues are committed to it, I'll leave it alone, but as soon as this nesting is over, I'm getting a new one. The roof panel warped so it's hard to open and close, and it looks like a woodpecker has been using it to sharpen his beak all winter. There are no holes, but a really rough-looking area just below the slot opening.
So I'm going to have to take some sandpaper to it lest mama wear all the feathers off her belly going in and out.

Since this box had never been used, I didn't have a ready means of affixing the Sparrow Spooker, and yesterday I was still too sick to stand long enough outside to figure it out. But this morning when there was a second egg, I figured I'd better get to it. I found a way of attaching it without disturbing the nestbox at all, then went back in to watch from the window.

A little later, I observed Mama Blue sitting in a nearby tree, looking mournfully over her shoulder at the new "alien thing" dangling down in front of the nestbox opening. Papa was over checking out the other nestbox - the one the TRES are interested in. I don't know if he was just being territorial, or looking for new digs. Then they both flew away. If they're running true to schedule they'll be back for a mealworm snack soon now, and hopefully I'll be able to observe whether Mama is brave enough to fly the gauntlet and check on her eggs.

Unless I happen to catch sight of it, I won't know for sure until tomorrow morning when I see if egg #3 has appeared. I've never had a Bluebird reject a box because of a Sparrow Spooker before, but this is such an odd little couple, I'm holding my breath.
Cher

Cher,
i am noticing the same thing here.
put the spooker on this morning while mom was inside with the eggs.
i saw a sparrow 2 days ago about 100 yards away in another property. so i figured i had better get the spooker going.

Mike Talentino
Twinsburg, OHIO

You're a brave man, Mike - putting the spooker on with Mom on the nest!
But I guess that's one way to get her used to it fast. Maybe she's
familiar enough with you to tolerate it. Was she in there laying, or
incubating?

Cher

i'm not sure what she was doing in there, except to say her tail was pointed
up and she was burroughed down in there, as if maybe hiding or remaining
very still. i have opened the box on occassion and she hasnt flown out, rather
just sat there and looked straight ahead, ignoring me as if i wasnt there and
maybe i would go away - which i did quickly.

Mike

at this moment the male EABL is pecking and pulling at the mylar strands on
the sparrow spooker. female is in the box on the nest with the 5 eggs. not
sure if they have hatched -

the male ripped away a strand of the mylar and has taken to the branch of a
tall tree about 30 feet up.

maybe he doesnt like this new device adorning his castle.

i have to leave town for 10 days. i need to get a neighbor to keep an eye on
things. hoping the spooker does its job.

Mike Talentino
Twinsburg, OHIO

I believe Miss Sarah Bernhardt herself has moved into my Bluebird nestbox! I've never seen such angst over a Sparrow Spooker!

I watched this morning when the Blues first appeared, and saw Miss Sarah sitting in the tree, staring down at the nestbox with the spooker installed on it. She sat, mournfully inspecting the alien being that had invaded her domain.

Her gallant leading man sat nearby, wing-waving encouragements, and bringing her tasty treats of bugs and mealworms to fortify her courage.
He even braved the spooker himself to cling onto the front of the nestbox and peer in - making sure that the business end of the alien being wasn't lurking *inside* the nestbox waiting to devour her upon her entrance.

After a few minutes the couple flew away, and I was obliged to go outside and catch up the strands of the spooker with a rubber band.

The couple shortly returned, Miss Sarah ventured to approach the front of the box and peer inside, but again declined to enter, then they flew off again.

Once again, another trip to the nestbox, where I more firmly caught up the strands that were blowing fiercely in the wind.

The couple returned - Miss Sarah flew to the front of the nestbox once more, her leading man appearing at her side with a mealworm offering.
But once again - no entrance, and they flew off together.

This time, cursing and spluttering, I made my way to the nestbox for one last-ditch strategy before Miss Sarah decided to drop her precious cargo on the ground outside the nestbox. I turned the spooker around so it was blowing out *behind* the nestbox, instead of in front of it. Three trips to the nestbox in a ferocious skirt wind, on the tail end of the flu, was doing nothing to increase my admiration for Miss Sarah's gift for melodrama.

Finally, the couple returned -- and this time, Miss Sarah deigned to enter the nestbox to deposit her progeny - I'm sure I heard her quoting Camille as she went, "When one may not have long to live, why shouldn't one have fancies?"

Cher

From: Amy Louise Marr [mailto:MARR_AMY_LOUISE"at"Lilly.com]
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 10:58 AM
Subject: HOSP dislike plastic, light colored house?

Hi
I have a 22 box trail at my place of employment. This year we replaced the boxes with new PVC boxes, called Slippin Silo's, which allow you to remove the nest compartment for easy viewing ( birdsilo.com, if you are curious).

Anyway, I have yet to have any evidence of HOSP using these boxes, which is much different than last year, when several of the wooden boxes were invariably claimed by HOSP, and prompted much removal of nests and eggs.

Has anyone else had experience with HOSP avoiding plastic boxes put up in the locations previously used by HOSP?

Will the 'novelty' wear off next year?

Greenfield, IN 46140

From: Linda Violett
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006
Subject: HOSP dislike plastic, light colored house?

Amy, House Sparrows are wary of change. A brand new any-style box placed at a brand new location will probably attract desired (non-HOSP) birds the first nesting. Maybe even the first season. That's what happened to a brand new trail in La Mirada, California.

(One "test" box was originally hung at La Mirada to see if Bluebirds were in the area.)
Next year, the trail began in earnest with about a dozen boxes which we will call the first "trail" year.

The second trail year, House Sparrows started moving into the wooden boxes and the very experienced monitor decided to pair a couple of wooden boxes with plastic "HOSP resistant" Gilbertson boxes.

House Sparrows took the Wooden box and Bluebirds got the Gilbertson box that first "Gilbertson" year. Then, House Sparrows took both the wooden box and the plastic Gilbertson box. That La Mirada trail quickly became so infested with House Sparrows that monitors eventually gave up and took down all the boxes.

The "Slipin Silo" looks like the Gilbertson box and I see that Steve Eno and Larry Broadbent gave them nice reviews http://www.birdsilo.com/testimonials.html . But don't get too excited about first-year HOSP trail results. If you place "Slipin Silo's" in a HOSP-infested problem area, and don't have House Sparrow problems by the middle of the second nesting season . . . . be sure to share your good news with us!!!

Is there any reason why the Slipin Silo (which looks like a Gilbertson) would be less attractive to House Sparrows? On the flip side, why would Bluebirds and other native cavity nesters be able to defend plastic PVC Silos better than plastic PVC Gilbertsons?

Linda Violett
Yorba Linda, Calif.

Hi Amy, Linda and group,

Linda raises some very valid points using her usual logic and scientific methods.

In my experience, there is no HOSP proof nest box, and I've experimented with trying to design one for years. Linda's second hole does provide an exit for a Bluebird that chooses not to cower or fight. As with all birds, the more time and energy a female has invested in the nest, eggs, or chicks, the more vigorously they will defend them.

In areas heavily infested with HOSP I've always had them invade nest boxes from the beginning, regardless of the design (although I've never used PVC boxes because I think they are just too small inside).

If HOSP are around, the fact is that you have a different battle on your hands, and everything will be more difficult and take more time. Keep us posted.
Thanks,
Rob Barron

Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas
Back in the 1960's Larry Zeleny found that by using 1/2 gallon or 1 gallon white bleach bottles that bluebirds would use these for nestboxes while the House Sparrows would normally choose a wood nestbox nearby. In the early 1970's I started using 6" diameter schedule 40 white PVC nestboxes and even with perches installed on these House Sparrows would use wood bluebird nestboxes or wood martin houses nearby to nest in leaving native birds to use the PVC boxes. In the late 1970's early 1980's NABS took my PVC nestbox design and used 5" diameter pool drain PVC and experimented with it and other "House Sparrow Resistant" nestboxes like the Vince Bauldry (open roof) and Raised roof design trying to come up with a better House Sparrow "resistant" nestbox than the thin walled bleach bottle nestboxes. In 1976 I tried a dozen or so different colored 4" PVC nestboxes and NABS started using 4" PVC nestboxes in 1983 or so. They recommended building these nestboxes 14" deep from the bottom of the entrance hole to the top of the floor....REALLY deep nestboxes to stop raccoons reaching into the boxes. They also recommended installing a 1&1/2" thick wood predator guard bolted to the fronts of PVC nestboxes.

Other House Sparrow Resistant nestboxes from the 1940's > 1960's were made with very thin sheets of wood from grape shipping crates, asphalt roofing materials, sheet metal (gallon coffee, food and paint cans) even leather or hides have been used.

The Slippin Silo is really a pretty neat nestbox and it was shown at one of the recent NABS conventions by the inventor. You can remove an old nest from this box in the "nest container" that drops out of the main PVC exterior and drop the entire old nest and container in a bucket of disinfectant and NEVER have dust or feces blowing back in your face....

Anyway whatever nestbox that is House Sparrow resistant for you today in your yard may turn out to be the favorite House Sparrow Motel for your neighbor down the street or at the other end of town. Each pair of sparrows and bluebirds seem to look for different styles when they go house shopping. Location is still the biggest issue as sparrows will adapt and use any style nestbox on any given day. KK

From: Amy Louise Marr [mailto:MARR_AMY_LOUISE"at"Lilly.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 6:55 AM
Subject: Re: HOSP/PVC Boxes

Hi All

I will be prepared for the HOSP eventually acclimating and attempting to use the new boxes.

Some info about the houses:

The Slippin Silos have a larger floor area than the Gilberton box. Quoting from the Silo webpage:
"There are 3.274 more square inches of nest space in a Slippin Silo (28.274) than there are in a 5" square wooden box (25 square inches)."

"Inside temperature comparison between wooden and silo boxes (painted white) in late summer 2001 suggests that silo temperatures average 2.5 to 3 degress less than conventional wooden boxes." (My boxes are very light tan)

The outer silo body is made out of 6" PVC pipe and an inverted one gallon jug fits inside it snugly. Thus the floor space is quite large.
A portion of the jug is cut away, allowing access from the nest box hole.

I also have a trapping nest insert, which should make HOSP trapping easy (and the bird would be immediately contained in the trap insert, which is totally enclosed and removable. I am not anxious to have people see me trapping birds here at work!)

I will let the list know of our progress and any HOSP invaders.
Currently 7 BB nests, 11 TRSW nests

Amy Louise Marr, Greenfield, IN 46140

From: Dottie, Hickory Hollow, Brown County, Indiana [mailto:yumyumkatts"at"voyager.net]
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 10:18 PM
Subject: Bluebird Eggs

Even tho I have sparrow problems, I have two boxes with five BB eggs each and another box with two BB eggs so far.

Actually, 15 BB eggs is my usual number for the first nesting so I think we are doing OK here in spite of the sparrows.

Dottie, Hickory Hollow
Brown County, Indiana

Amy wrote: “This year we replaced the boxes with new PVC boxes, called Slippin Silo's, which allow you to remove the nest compartment for easy viewing ( birdsilo.com, if you are curious). Anyway, I have yet to have any evidence of HOSP using these boxes, which is much different than last year, when several of the wooden boxes were invariably claimed by HOSP, and prompted much removal of nests and eggs. Has anyone else had experience with HOSP avoiding plastic boxes put up in the locations previously used by HOSP? Will the 'novelty' wear off next year? “

I agree with the responses you got - the generalconsensus is that when given the choice between a wooden and a PVC box, HOSP will generally choose the wooden box. However, I've seen a great photo Wendell took of HOSP in a Gilbertson. I put more Gilberston's on my trails this year, but have no HOSP left to test on! (Only one nest attempt this year so far, thanks to ground trapping.)

Of course even though a HOSP may not choose to nest in a PVC box, aggressive territorial HOSP may still enter for the purposes of attack.

Would be very interested in hearing what you think of the Slippin' Silos - it's an innovative design, and also what happens with HOSP use OVER TIME.

Bet from CT

Even tho I have sparrow problems, I have two boxes with five BB eggs each and another box with two BB eggs so far.

Actually, 15 BB eggs is my usual number for the first nesting so I think we are doing OK here in spite of the sparrows.

Dottie, Hickory Hollow
Brown County, Indiana

Hi Dottie! Are you using sparrow spookers?

Bet from CT

http://www.sialis.org/sparrowspooker.htm

No, but thanks for the web site. I tried Fawzi's method a couple of years ago and it worked for a little while and then no good.

Whatever we were doing with the HOSP seemed to work because I don't have any now.

Dottie, Hickory Hollow
Brown County, Indiana

From: Neil Knutson
Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 9:14 AM
Subject: bird houses/gary springer

Hi Linda, my name is Neil Knutson, residing north of Seattle. I built 6 of the chalet boxes by Gary Springer, and at first our tree swallows would take interest, then the house sparrow moved in. The opening was inch and a half, with inch and a half depth. Then I changed one box to a oval hole that was one and a eigth high by 2 inch wide...sparrow still went in. Do you have a better hole size for the swallow that will keep the sparrow out ?

Neil......425-327-9642

Perhaps folks on the List can respond directly to this fellow's questions
Re: Springer Chalets, House Sparrows and Swallows with Oval Holes.

Linda Violett
Yorba Linda, Calif.

Linda wrote: Do you and/or nearby neighbors have seed feeders attracting House Sparrows?
Removing food might prove more effective than trapping.

Hi Steve and Linda. Actually I would say NOTHING could be more effective than REMOVING house
sparrows from the local population (through trapping or shooting). HOSP that do not exist do not
breed or eat anywhere :-) and can not attack anything. Fortunately adults generally remain within
1.24 - 3.8 miles of where they hatched. Flocks of juveniles and non-breeding adults may move 3.8 - 5 miles overall in search of food.

Of course controlling HOSP over a large area is a challenge. But after 3 or 4 years of serious
trapping, this season, with 55 boxes (admittedly a small trail) I have had ONE HOSP nest so far, in an area that was totally infested before. Now that I've got the hang of it, and the equipment, I can catch HOSP in minutes, max one or two days.

That said, I totally agree that controlling food sources as an essential supplement to any house
sparrow control program (active, passive or combo), as offering food attractive to HOSP helps them survive and draws them to an area.

Some feeding tips (excerpt from http://www.sialis.org/hosp.htm )

Do not offer seed that contains white proso millet (the little round seeds that come in many
mixtures) or cracked corn (or offer seed mixes with less than 35% millet and 15% cracked corn if you want to attract juncos, native sparrows, and mourning doves). Do not feed bread. Black oil sunflower seeds, nuts, and thistle (niger/nyger/nyjer) may not be preferred by House Sparrows, but may be
eaten if food is scarce, so selective feeding is not an effective deterrent. If feeding thistle,
choose a goldfinch style feeder that requires birds to hang upside down to feed (with the feeding
port below the perch.) Note that in some areas, HOSP will eat anything from any style feeder.

Put a hoop device such as the Magic Halo on your bird feeder, which repels an estimated 88-94% of HOSP in winter, 84% of summer. Other birds are not repelled. Hang hobby wire (28-30 gauge or the thinnest lightest weight you can find) from the hoop at 4 equidistant points, weighted with a
fishing weight or metal nut so incoming birds do not get tangled in it. See
http://www.sialis.org/halo.htm

If other people in your neighborhood are feeding HOSP, talk with them and give them a copy of a HOSP advisory to explain the impact to bluebirds. See http://www.sialis.org/neglect.htm

Try feeding black oil sunflower seeds (which HOSP may eat) in Duncraft's smallest "satellite globe"
feeder (one portal) hung from a wire or string, so it swings in the breeze.

Trim wooden/plastic perches back to less than 5/8" to deter HOSP, grackles and starlings.

Remove bird feeders altogether.

Bet from CT

From: Amy Louise Marr [mailto:MARR_AMY_LOUISE"at"Lilly.com]
Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 8:37 AM
Subject: HOSP adapts to Slippin Silo

Hi All
I had mentioned previously an apparent latent period during which HOSP seemed to not 'accept' the novel tan plastic Slippin' Silo boxes on our trail.

Well, I knew it'd come sooner or later:
The first nest attempt was discovered this week and the male easily trapped with the handy fully enclosed insert trap. He was humanely dispatched.

Amy Marr
Greenfield, IN 46140

Hi,

I am new to the site and am very troubled about what has progressed with my BB nest boxes. I live on 2-3 acres and have 2 nest boxes in my yard (one in the front and one in the back). I have been "raising" bluebirds for 7 years now and usually each box produces 3-4 nests each year. About
2 or 3 years ago my front box began to get swallows competing for occupation. Since swallows are acceptable I just let nature take it's course. However, at the end of last season there were HOSP that took over the front box completely. Once I realized that they were here to stay I kept removing their eggs. I figured as long as they weren't bothering my other BB nest box and they weren't reproducing all would be fine. Much to my dismay, last week I noticed new sparrows at my back box. The bluebirds did have one nestful so far, but as soon as they fledged then here came the HOSP. Well, a few days ago I was horrified to find the male bluebird dead inside of his own home! The male sparrow killed him and claimed the box for his own. After some shedding of tears (we have had this pair for
7 years and the female is still searching for him), I took the box down.
I would rather have no BB box if it's going to attract more sparrows. I learned of a way to attach fishing line to the box to deter HOSP. Has anyone used this method? It is explained at http://bluebird.htmlplanet.com/larry.htm . Please reply with any advice that may be helpful.

Pat
Hunterdon County, N.J.
jpdougherty"at"juno.com

Yep, we tried the mono line. This is Fawzi's protocol. It did work here
for a couple of months and then that was it.

Dottie, Hickory Hollow
Brown County, Indiana

Pat, we receive many posts such as yours reporting dead adult Bluebirds killed by House Sparrows in 1-holed boxes. Instead of taking down all your
boxes:
1) Remove excess boxes (only one BB sized box per two acre forage)
2) Never let House Sparrows sit in a box;
3) Build boxes with an escape hole (2-holed boxes) http://home.earthlink.net/~lviolett/construction.html
4) Remove seed feeders

If the box comes under attack by House Sparrows, the babies will not be able to fly out of the second hole. The fact that babies cannot fly out of the "escape" hole seems obvious but Evelyn Cooper thinks it is necessary to ALWAYS state that to newcomers.

On my established trail, the vast majority of adults are able to escape a House Sparrow attack in a 2-holed box and seem to be able to defend the box (and babies) during a subsequent nesting. I have never trapped House Sparrows and have about 70 boxes on an urban House Sparrow infested trail.

If House Sparrows have been allowed to sit in your boxes during the past, cleanup takes longer.
If you continue to put out seed, cleanup takes longer.
If your neighbors are feeding and raising House Sparrows, educate them.

Linda Violett
Yorba Linda, Calif.

Pat wrote: ...few days ago I was horrified to find the male bluebird dead inside of his own home! The male sparrow killed him and claimed the box for his own. After some shedding of tears (we have had this pair for
7 years and the female is still searching for him), I took the box down.
I would rather have no BB box if it's going to attract more sparrows. I learned of a way to attach fishing line to the box to deter HOSP. Has anyone used this method? It is explained at http://bluebird.htmlplanet.com/larry.htm . Please reply with any advice that may be helpful.

Pat, I'm very sorry to hear about this. House Sparrows can be quite aggressive, and unfortunately it's often just a matter of time before an attack.

I have used fishing line on boxes, and it does help. I have found there is more HOSP pressure on boxes without it, than with. However, the effect may wear off over time. It can help a bluebird pair hang onto a box long enough to lay an egg, at which point a Sparrow Spooker is MUCH more effective (see http://www.sialis.org/sparrowspooker.htm ) I wish I had known about these options when I first started bluebirding.

Larry's arrangement for fishing line to be unnecessarily complicated. A simpler set up also works okay. Please see http://www.sialis.org/hosp.htm#monofilament for drawings.

More info: For some reason, HOSP (but not bluebirds or Tree Swallows) tend to be spooked by dangling monofilament (fishing line) /hobby wire. They will fly towards it, flutter in place, and then fly away. This effect may wear off over time, or when nest site competition is fierce. While not 100% effective, HOSP appear to prefer nestboxes without monofilament over those that have it.
This works better with adults, as juveniles are less fearful. Put up the monofilament BEFORE the male HOSP starts looking for nesting sites and "bonds" with a box. Once he has bonded, he may tolerate it.

String 12-20 lb. clear fishing line (pulled tight) on either side of the entrance hole (parallel).
You can use push pins or eye hooks to guide line. Then put two screws in the side of the roof and hang fishing line from screws. To prevent the line from being pulled into the nestbox and tangling up nestlings, put a fishing weight or metal nut on the end of the dangling lines.

As Linda noted, feeding House Sparrows exacerbates the problem. More on what you can do on that subject is here: http://www.sialis.org/hosp.htm#feeding

Bet from CT

On my established urban trail of about 30 to 40 boxes Bluebirds get the 2-holed hanging mansion. When the 1-holed box trail was acquired, there were HOSP/WEBL skirmishes/deaths. There were lingering problems for a couple of years after retrofitting the trail to 2-holers but now, Bluebirds
get the box. No trapping was done on the established trail.

On the Golf Course trail of about 30 boxes, Bluebirds now get the 2-holed hanging mansions. See on-line logs showing the conversion of 1-holed boxes with HOSP problems to 2-holers. Even with 2-holers, there were lingering HOSP/WEBL battles/deaths for a couple of years. Now Bluebirds get the 2-holers without HOSP skirmishes.
http://home.earthlink.net/~lviolett/conversion.html No trapping was done on the golf course trail. Weekly online logs were kept during the transition of 1-holers to 2-holers during the skirmish years. But now there are no HOSP/WEBL skirmishes so only yearly results are added at the end of the season.

At another site, HOSP are still a problem and I made the mistake of keeping extra boxes in the park for several years. That small neighborhood park was acquired a few years ago with ongoing HOSP problems. The actual forage area only warrants three nestboxes. Another "extra" box was removed a couple of weeks ago to see if that helps to end lingering skirmishes. No trapping was done at this small park.

Linda Violett
Yorba Linda, Calif.

Linda Violett wrote:

"You said your neighborhood consists of 1/2 and 3/4 acre lots. On my urban
> trail, homes on lots that size are considered horse property estates."

Linda, surely you are beginning to understand that not everyone has the same problems. This also means that it is not a "one size fits all" situation.

If I remember correctly, last season, you wrote about Susan Bulger trapping HOSP's and that her records show that her fledging rate was higher.

For people new to this, every aspect needs to be explained. I was just reading a post by a new person that needs more understanding about controlling the HOSP. They need to know that using a two-hole mansion only does not protect the babies and eggs that are left in the box. They also need to know that if they live in an area where it is so extremely hot, vent holes need to be added to your box. Keith pointed out that a slot at the top back and front is much more efficient that the vent holes.

I commend you for your work. But, let's not forget that ALL parts of the country are different with all kinds of situations involved.

Evelyn
www.labayoubluebirdsociety.org

Evelyn, you keep speaking of your "hot" area as if summer heat is somehow unique to your trail. It is not. In fact, my urban trail in Yorba Linda, Calif. is actually HOTTER, comparing July averages, than your trail in Louisiana according to the following web site:
http://www.era.com/neighborhoodinfo/index.esiml?strZipcode=54660&lproperty=36066

Bayou, Louisiana avg. July highs = 81.30F with an avg. July low of 57.10F
Yorba Linda, Calif. avg. July highs = 84F with an avg. July low of 62F

I have used 2-holed mansions in freezing mountain temperatures next to a ski resort.
I have used 2-holed mansions in semi-desert conditions in Yorba Linda (hotter than your trail).

Monitors who want extra ventilation, may add it.
Monitors who want to trap with these boxes, are free to do so.
Monitors who want to use posts are free to do so.
Monitors who add guards for 1-holed boxes can do the same with 2-holed mansions.
No one has come up with any real disadvantage to using 2-holed mansions.
When Cher recently asked why 2-holed Mansions were not the standard, no one came up with a valid answer.

New folks do not need to be told that featherless chicks cannot fly out of the second hole.
New folks *do* need to be told that even if you trap, you never know which box will be attacked and that if they use 1-holed boxes, they run the risk that chicks AND adults might be trapped in 1-holers. If 2-holers are used, at least the parents can escape.

Linda Violett
Yorba Linda and Big Bear, Calif.

Linda, I do not have time to research where you got the average for July or what year, (didn't even look at the site) but I can tell you that last July and August, I had test thermometers in nestboxes with heat shields on them and they got as high as
105* for several hours during those months. David Shiels in Texas had some reach much higher than that in his tests. He and I communicated those months about it. In fact, very few summers don't carry temps below 105* in the nestboxes, some higher sometimes. So, you can see why I am so concerned and do all I can to help lower the temps.

Apparently, you do not work with as many people as I do. You most definitely DO have to tell "newbies" what to expect and what can happen and what to do. It is a great disadvantage to them not to do so. THIS IS WHERE I SEE A DISADVANTAGE.

Evelyn

[subsequent post] You have declared that your trail is hotter than mine in Louisiana. If so, to recommend boxes without vent holes I find unacceptable. The vent holes should already be in the box, not set up without them.

Today, it reached 91*. They have predicted 95* for several days and it is just early June. I will be out putting more foil and solar screen on some nestboxes. I will be using thermometers in both kinds of shields to see what results they give.

Deep south needs good vent holes and I hope to make some slots in the upper front and back like Keith recommended.

I was born and raised in the midwest and spent a lot of time in the
deep south and Florida in the service in the late fifties. I also spent
a year or so in San Diego. The dry heat out here does not even begin
to compare with the suffocating humidity that is present back there.
I'll take the plus 90's here anytime to the comparable temps in the
deep south. Just my two cents.

Tom Long
Western Oregon

...

I like to feed birds, but hadn't put up a feeder here in the two months that I live here. I wanted to test Linda Violet's theory that back yard bird feeding creates HOSP problems, so I put up a small feeder that holds about half a coffee can full of black-oil sunflower seeds. Initially, the HOSP rejected the black oil seed, but after two or three days, they became less picky and I could shoot 30 in an hour, males, females, and juveniles. The bird feeder didn't create the house sparrows, but it definitely attracted them to and concentrated them in my yard at the feeder. I would have to agree with Linda that there is no need to feed seed to birds, at least in the summer, unless you're using it as a bait station. Are you or your neighbors feeding the birds birdseed?

Good luck and keep us posted.

Rob Barron

>Robert Barron wrote:
>I would have to agree with Linda that there is >no need to feed seed to birds, at least in the summer, unless you're >using it as a bait station.

Steve, Robert et al,

My experience is somewhat different. Before I became the "Bluebird Nut"
I used to feed all the birds in my yard -- sunflower, seed mixes, but especially in the winter STALE BREAD, DONUTS, baked goods of all kinds.
I had HOSP galore. I didn't know there were Bluebirds in my area until I saw some perched on my heated birdbath one cold winter day.

My first fumbling attempts at Bluebirding that spring were a nightmare.
I lost my first female Bluebird to a HOSP.

I quickly educated myself about HOSP, and just as quickly I changed my feeding habits, - feeding only BOS, suet cakes and peanuts, and providing fresh water. I still feed the seed-eating birds during the summer because I want to see them up close - No, THEY don't "need" it, but *I* need it. Bluebirds aren't the only birds I love, and if I can house Bluebirds safely AND still see Cardinals, Rose-breasted Grosbeaks, Chipping Sparrows, Woodpeckers, Finches and the like, then that - for me
- is the best of both worlds.

That first summer the HOSP *would* eat the BOS, but there were far fewer of them than when I'd been feeding the junky stuff they love. At the same time I also started trapping HOSP. By the following spring, the HOSP population had diminished, but I was still running outside several times a day to take the HOSP out of my funnel-type trap before they could escape.

Subsequent winters of selective feeding and summers of improved trapping with the Deluxe Repeating Sparrow Trap have resulted in my seeing almost no HOSP all winter long, and *none* at my feeders. In spring I see them hopping around in the bushes in the front of my house (my feeders are in the back); and flying in from the neighbor's horse/donkey/sheep/cow/bull pasture next door to try and claim a nestbox. But *no* HOSP have visited my feeders in several years.

My situation may not be typical, but this just underscores how *each person needs to assess their unique situation to determine what works best for them in their area*. If you're feeding BOS and HOSP are still coming to your feeders then you either have to start combining selective feeding and/or use of "magic halos" on your feeders with trapping, *or* experiment with eliminating feeding altogether. If you do that, but still have HOSP, then *your* feeders aren't what was attracting them, and you will have to practice trapping if you want to eliminate HOSP. If you stop feeding, and the HOSP miraculously disappear, and it doesn't bother you that the only birds in your yard are Bluebirds - then go for it.

Cher

In my experience, house sparrows don't like safflower seeds, nor do
blackbirds and grackles. Cardinals, titmice, chickadees, juncos and native
sparrows do like them.

Kate Arnold
Paris, Texas

From: Dereth Vardaman [mailto:dcvardaman"at"cableone.net]
Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 8:18 AM
Subject: Heat Shield

Would it be possible to deter HOSP using a car windshield heat deflector over top of box- allowing for air space to also deter the HOSP or do you have to have the strips fluttering above? Has anyone using the windshield deflector noticed if it keeps the HOSP away? Just wondering. Dee

I know we’ve talked a lot about the topic of nestbox styles that House Sparrows (HOSP) don’t prefer,
but wanted to update my thinking on it if you’ll bear with me.

Just to clarify:
* No nestbox suitable for bluebirds is HOSP-proof. HOSP are smaller than bluebirds, and thus can
enter any hole a bluebird can fit through.
* Even though HOSP may not "prefer" to nest in certain types of nestboxes, they may still enter them
for the purposes of attack, and may use them if nesting cavities are limited or competition for
sites is fierce. They may also enter them if they are being used by another bird, due to their
competitive nature.
* If you pair a nestbox style HOSP do not prefer with a standard wooden nestbox, the HOSP may tend
to choose the wooden box. Then other control methods (removal of nests and eggs, trapping, etc.) can
be used.

Questions:

GILWOODS: Keith and others who have them: you find that House Sparrows (HOSP) did not prefer Gilwood
boxes? When I only had two up, the only HOSP attempts I had were in one of the Gilwoods, so I
haven’t considered them “House Sparrow resistant”. I do get bluebirds nesting in Gilwoods also, and
Tree Swallows, and lots of House Wren attempts (maybe because of larger hole and small interior.)

CARRIER SLANT: I was disappointed to learn that our local Audubon Society is selling Carrier Slant
boxes, leaving people with the impression that they are House Sparrow resistant. (FYI, a person did
recently post on the Garden Web Bluebirding Forum that they were using one and have not had HOSP or
(House Wren) HOWR problems with it. See related posts on this list in the archives about Carrier
boxes here: http://www.bestofbbml.audubon-omaha.org/slant.htm ) If you recall, good ol’ Birds &
Blooms had published the plans saying they were HOSP resistant).

GILBERTSON: Phil, have you tried these, or PVC boxes on your HOSP-ey golf course?
Wendell has a nice photo of a pair of HOSP in one. I have not had any HOSP attempts in them, but
hardly have any HOSP around now.

SLOT BOX: I only have one regular slot box on my own trail, and I just get HOWR attempts in it. I
just got a photo at someone else's (neglected) trail in town of HOSP nesting in a regular slot box.
I find Loren Hughes design (plan here http://audubon-omaha.org/bbbox/nestbox/hughes.htm ) most
appealing and am anxious to try it out if I can convince my husband to make me some (he just managed
to dislocate his shoulder in softball so is currently out of action.)

K BOX: BRAW monitors had good luck with it. Design here:
http://www.braw.org/pdf/BP1%20-%20K%20Bluebird%20Nest%20Box.pdf . Similar to a Gilwood.

TWO HOLE BOX: No personal experience with them yet, but find Linda's experience compelling. See
notes below.

Here’s what I currently have on my HOSP Management webpage at
http://www.sialis.org/hosp.htm#nestboxtype . Looking for input (e.g., other experiences you've had,
things I've missed/are wrong)

TYPE OF NESTBOXES HOSP MAY AVOID OR NOT PREFER: Again, despite claims you may read, no one has
invented a nestbox yet that HOSP will not use. One of the reasons HOSP are so widespread is that
they are very adaptable. HOSP tend to be wary of change, and may initially avoid a new type of box.
• House Sparrows may be reluctant to use a Gilbertson PVC box or other boxes made of PVC pipe.
• HOSP may avoid a slot box (e.g., Efta or Hughes designs), perhaps preferring a circular hole and a
deeper cavity. I have seen HOSP readily nest in a slot box.
• Shallow box: Put a block of wood on the floor of a nestbox to make it more shallow (3-5" deep),
and thus possibly less attractive to HOSP. Unfortunately, bluebirds are perhaps less likely to use a
box that is less than 4" deep, so you may wish to remove the block of wood if you are successful in
having the HOSP abandon the box. There is some concern that starlings may be more likely to prey on
eggs and young in a shallow box, however Davis (Bluebirds and Their Survival) indicated this seldom
occurs.
• A two-hole box may not be preferred by HOSP, and may allow adult bluebirds to escape a HOSP
attack. However, an incubating female may choose not to abandon the nest if a HOSP enters. The
two-hole box will not protect eggs/nestlings from attack. One person witnessed BOTH the male and
female HOSP entering at once to attack an incubating bluebird. Its use does appear to have reduced
HOSP problems on the Yorba Linda trail in CA, and no adult bluebirds have been killed by HOSP on an
infested trail in La Mirada. (links)
• HOSP MAY also avoid a Gilwood box (for plans see Audubon Society of Omaha.) The Gilwood box has a
small interior that neither House Sparrows nor starlings prefer, and the wire across the large
entrance hole actually makes the hole smaller thus preventing starlings from entering. HOSP in my
area seem to actually prefer the Gilwood over regular NABS boxes.
• A square hole 1.25 x 1.25" has been suggested (Terres 1953) to allow the slender bluebird access
but prevent the "pudgier" HOSP from entering.
• A "K" box (designed by Terry Glanzman) was found by some BRAW monitors to be quite effective in
deterring HOSP. It is shallow, but has no side ventilation, and the design looks similar to a
Gilwood box.

LIGHT: Some speculate that HOSP like a dark, deep cavity.Varner (1964) felt that bluebirds also
prefer darkness inside the box, so this design might also deter bluebirds somewhat. Note that any
type of changes to a nestbox may deter HOSP short-term, but over time (or due to nestsite
competition) they may become accustomed to it (they are very adaptable) and resume use of these
boxes.
• Open-top "Bauldry" boxes are no longer recommended by NABS. They have a 3" hole in the top,
covered with hardware cloth. Supposedly HOSP don't like a wet nest. Unfortunately, it is not healthy
for bluebird nestlings either, and can increase the likelihood of fatal hypothermia. These boxes may
still be used by HOSP.
o One birding store owner tried covering the 3" hole with plexiglas (on the theory that light
deters HOSP), but the heat killed the eggs and nestlings. However, he did indicate that bluebirds
appeared to prefer these boxes (Zimmerman personal communication, 2004)
• Boxes built with two 1.5" round holes are used by HOSP.
• Boxes with 1/2 of the roof made of Plexiglas (covered during warmer weather to prevent
overheating) also do not appear to deter HOSP long term.
• HOSP will nest out in the open (e.g., on top of a sign) and have been known to use a box that
has no top at all.
• Removing most of the wood bottom of the nestbox and covering it with circles of Plexiglas, or
with 1/4" hardware cloth so that the bottom looks open to a bird looking inside the nestbox does not
work long-term (Kridleron Dick Walker experiment).

OTHER NESTBOX DESIGN ISSUES:

Do not include a perch on a bluebird nestbox. House Sparrows find them useful in maintaining
possession of boxes they have managed to occupy. (Zeleny, 1976). However, a HOSP can use a box
without a perch.

Hole Reducers: For the smallest cavity nesters (e.g., chickadee, titmice, nuthatch) use a hole
reducer (smaller than 1.25") to exclude almost all HOSP and protect eggs and birds in the nestbox.
(Tree Swallows apparently require at least a 1 3/8" hole.) However, smaller HOSP may be able to
enter smaller holes, and HOSP size depends on latitude and winter temperature, with smallest birds
along the Louisiana and s. California coasts and in Mexico, and largest birds in Canada and the
Rocky Mountain and plains region. Frank Navratil reported that for entrances:
ROUND
1 1/4" diameter allows HOSP entry.
1 1/8" diameter stops entry. (NOTE: Keith Kridler of TX has had HOSP nest in boxes with an exact 1
3/16" hole. Phil Berry of FL reported HOSP entering via a 7/8" restrictor used on a box with Brown
Headed Nuthatches nesting.)
HORIZONTAL SLOT
1 1/2" x 1" slot allows entry.
1 1/2" x 7/8" stops entry.
VERTICAL SLOT
1" x 1 1/2" slot allows entry.
7/8" x 1 1/2" slot stops entry (Mike of Seattle had a HOSP build a nest in a Violet-green Swallow
box with this slot size).
If a sparrow spooker doesn't work for some reason (rare) and the babies are under constant attack by
HOSP but are close to fledging, you could install a 1" hole restrictor, which allows the parents to
continue feeding but they will not be able to remove fecal sacs, and may have trouble accessing
weaker nestlings to feed them. Remove the restrictor when the babies are due to fledge.

Decorative nestboxes should either have a hole 1 1/8" in diameter or smaller, or the hole should be
plugged or painted on. (See handout on unmanaged nestboxes, which can become HOSP breeding grounds.)

Floor size: Some people (e.g. Varner 1964) speculate that HOSP may prefer boxes with a larger floor
size to accommodate their bulky nest. Thus a floor size of 3.5 x 3.5" or 4 x 4" may be less
attractive to HOSP. Note that a smaller floor size can result in crowding (impacting sanitation,
vigor, and increasing the effect of excess heat.) I have had HOSP readily nest in smaller NABS style
boxes.

If anyone can reduce the complex topic of HOSP resistant boxes into an
objective and informative summary, it will be Bet. Anyone responding to
her post should make every attempt to provide facts (not perceptions) before hitting the send button. And it will probably be helpful to separate each topic into separate posts so it is easier for her to group responses of one subject together.

The first two bulleted items seem to be consistent with my observations and reports from others.

Reaction to the third bulleted item about adding a wooden nestbox along with a HOSP-resistant box depends on whether or not the monitor traps and/or the fear of rampages. If a monitor does not kill House Sparrows, extra Bluebird-sized boxes create layered behavior problems. Some monitors will set up the paired boxes and are then afraid to remove HOSP eggs because of the "HOSP rampage" theory. Monitors who do not trap may be lucky and have a safe fledge using this technique but run the risk of eventually having BOTH boxes occupied by House Sparrows after the novelty of the HOSP-resistant box has subsided. I've seen this sequence in log notes of previous monitors at experimental HOSP sites.

Extra information based on paired same-style boxes My experience is that Bluebirds tend to abandoned a box and move to an extra box rather than fight HOSP. But if I place one 2-holer on approximately 2 acres of forage, Bluebirds usually hold their ground. Eggs and chicks may be lost during the initial transition battles but adults usually survive and learn to dominate over House Sparrows on my trails without the need to trap.

The key to the above paragraph is survival of adult Bluebirds. An experimental location at La Mirada Regional Park, Calif. is the worst HOSP area I've worked. Dozens of intense HOSP/WEBL battles and hundreds of HOSP eggs removed but not one Bluebird adult trapped/killed by HOSP in any 2-holer at that park Yet, at a tiny neighborhood park of half a dozen boxes the very rare deaths of adult Bluebirds in 2-holed boxes occurred twice (same 2-holer) in quick succession. Why that odd sequence happened is unknown. Bluebirds are now in control of that box (without trapping) and fledged four from it this year. If I were to add/pair a box to the area, House Sparrows would surely come in and cause problems.

I will make comments to the specific 2-holed segment offlist to Bet since my web page already provides most details if anyone is interested http://home.earthlink.net/~lviolett/

Linda Violett
Yorba Linda, Calif.

From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com]
Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 5:35 PM
Subject: Re: The quest / Third Bulleted Item

Do you have fledging rates to show us?

Have you compared them to people that use aggressive control?

I do remember Susan Bulger used it a couple of season ago and it proved to produce higher fledging rates than yours.

I've asked this before, but have not received an answer.

I am interested in the final count when I get to the end of my nesting season.

Evelyn

From: Laurie Spence [mailto:mrsgbs3"at"hughes.net]
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 9:45 PM
Subject: Confusion About Feeding Seed

I've been an offical "birder" for about a month now; I'm slowly getting my yard in order - bird baths, nestboxes, feeders, etc. In my spare time (that's not much due to my two year old triplets) I try to spot all the varieties of birds in my yard. For the past month I have not seen a male HOSP, but maybe I've seen a female, not sure. Anyway, I recently put out a feeder with black-oil sunflower seeds and today I
saw a male HOSP eating there!!

I guess I misunderstood the "O.K." type of birdseed. I thought black- oil sunflower or thistle would not attract HOSP but I now know that is incorrect.

Should I not put ANY seed out? I enjoy watching the different birds come to my feeder but I don't want to encourage HOSP.

Laurie from Southern Maryland

From: Robert Barron [mailto:rebarron"at"gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 10:14 PM
Subject: Re: Confusion About Feeding Seed

Hi Laurie,

I've seen over and over here that feeding only "good seed" will attract less House Sparrow, and I agree that not feeding the cheaper mixes attracts less House Sparrows, but if all you put out is Black Oil sunflower seed and there are any HOSP around, they will come and eat it if they are hungry. They will eat just about anything, including garbage and once digested corn.

I quit feeding everything but Niger seed for the Gold Finches from June until the weather gets cold. I have never seen a House Sparrow eat Niger seed. They can't get their fat, bluebird head cracking beak into the tiny holes, for one thing, but I've never seen them eat what spills on the ground either.

That still doesn't avoid the huge spring flocks of "blackbirds" which seem to be mostly Red-winged Blackbirds, Grackles, and Brown-headed Cowbirds that can empty a 2 gallon feeder of Black Oil in a matter of hours, but they come in droves when other birds are still arriving back north or have withstood a winter with diminishing food supplies, so I feed them all.

I have never had that many House Sparrows at my feeders, and when I did, they weren't aggressive toward other birds. Their behavior around nest boxes is a different story. European Starlings usually go for suet, from my experience anyway.

I'd keep feeding and get a repeating ground trap. I'm not convinced that we can ever make a meaningful dent in House Sparrow populations continent-wide, but too many reliable citizen scientists here report good luck keeping them out of their yards with Van Ert in-house traps, or a Deluxe Repeating Trap to ignore their observations.

This debate will end when there is peace on earth, but in the mean time we keep trying and keep learning.

Rob Barron-Warrenton, Virginia

From: Cher [mailto:bluelist"at"localnet.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 6:49 AM
Subject: Re: Confusion About Feeding Seed

Laurie,

As I posted yesterday, I've seen a dramatic difference in my HOSP population through a combination of selective feeding and trapping.

It is a fallacy that HOSP *won't* eat sunflower seed, as Rob has mentioned. They're not *as* likely to be attracted to feeders offering pure BOS as they are to birdie junk food. But they'll eat it anyway.

Before I had Bluebirds, I'd put out the same junk blends that so many people feed, combined with stale bread (I used to haunt the bakery thrift shops *looking* for outdated loaves of bread for a dime!), donuts, leftover pie crust - anything to attract all the "cute little birdies".

Once I'd learned the dangers of attracting HOSP, I removed all but BOS, peanuts and suet cakes, and sugar water for the hummers. At the same time, I started trapping.

This is my fifth season of following this regimen.(Compared to others here, I'm a relative 'newbie' too.) Now I almost never see HOSP at my feeders, although I do still see them in my yard every spring, and I do have to keep trapping to eliminate them from my little mini-environment.

I'm living in a rural area - "cow country" - with sheep, goats, horses, donkeys, and the occasional rhea living next door to me. So my situation may or may not be typical.

There are some here who will tell you in no uncertain terms that you should stop all feeding. Most of us, however, take a somewhat less restrictive approach.

Cher

From: Bruce Burdett [mailto:blueburd"at"verizon.net]
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 9:21 AM
Subject: Re: Confusion About Feeding Seed

Laurie,
Except for Niger tubes and Hummingbird feeders, I put out no bird-food during the summer - no suet, no black oil, no raisins, no cakes, no peanuts, nothing.
I have several reasons. Bears will raid and destroy feeders. The birds do not need the artificial feeding. Feeders tend to attract various scavengers. (rats, squirrels, mice) Birds at feeders are easy targets for predators. Bird-food can rot, ferment, and get moldy in warm weather.
(In winter the bears are denned up.)
So, summer feeding is not a problem for me. My feeders come in in April and don't go out until October.

Bruce Burdett SW NH

I think house sparrows are very flexible and will eat a wide variety of food.    Once they found my meal worm feeder they were the most voracious feeders there (until I trapped them).   They appear to be generalists.   They will nest with or without a cavity, eat a variety of foods, this is probably partly why they are so successful.  

...

Jack Dodson

From: rdb2006"at"verizon.net [mailto:rdb2006"at"verizon.net]
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 10:52 PM
Subject: How I dealt with a pair of HS's

Bluebirders,

I had a pair of House Sparrows on my 13 box trail that wanted to nest in one of the boxes. I cleaned out their first mesting attempt, but you know HSs, they were right back, ready to try again. I had thought about doing this for awhile and decided to give it a try. I wanted to create an illusion for them that they would be flying into a regular-sized nestbox, when in reality it would be a very small, cramped-up space, unsuitable for sparrow, nor much less, nesting. Hopefully they would see the futility of their attempt and give up the idea of using that box. Here's how i did it:

Step 1. I opened a small 8 oz. can of peaches and ate the peaches. :))

Step 2. I cleaned and dried the can.

Step 3. I placed the can INSIDE the box so that the can's 2 1/2 in. opening covered the nestbox's 1 1/2 in. opening. The can was held in place with a small piece of wood that I wedged between the can and the rear panel of the nestbox. The sparrow would be flying into the small can. Real high tech, I know.

I left the can in place for 2 weeks. I never saw the HS again, and after I removed the can (with a few shreds of grass and wrappers in it), I had one of the last broods of BBs of the year in the box.

In conclusion, there's not much room inside an 8 oz. can for a bird to move in, much less build a nest in.

Anyway, it was something I wanted to try and I got a chance to do it toward the end of the season.

--rudy in maryland