Problems with house sparrows on the bluebird trail (Part 1)

Passive (Biological/Behavioral) Control
Factors that Encourage or Discourage HOSPs (House Sparrows)

Also see other HOSP information under Active Control, Philosophy, Lime, General, Disposal, etc.

In addition to Messages that have appeared in the Bluebird Mailing Lists on this topic, the following are on the Audubon Society of Omaha website: 

• Minimum diameter for House Sparrow entry by Frank Navratil
• House Sparrows by Steve Eno
• The Active and Passive Bluebirders by Bluebird Bob Walshaw and Jim McLochlin

Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif.

Gary Boone had a great question on how to get people to take feeders down that attract sparrows. Hope the rest of the list can use something from it.

My trail of 40 boxes is located in residential greenbelts and neighborhood parks in the middle of crowded housing. So the normal advice of "keep the boxes at least XXX yards away from houses and sparrow feeders is not an option.

So during the winter months I prepared a 2-sided flier addressed to "Nestbox Neighbors" explaining our volunteer bluebird effort, why it was necessary to have nestboxes and neighbors could do to either help our efforts (water misters, bells on cats) and what actions would harm our efforts (millet seed/sparrow food, table feeders). I bought US postage stamps with the eastern bluebird (3¢ each) and stapled them to the hand-outs so they could easily identify a bluebird.

Whenever I felt like taking a walk, I would target the neighborhood of one greenbelt at a time. Everyone in the neighborhood got a hand-out on their doorstep . . . so no one was singled out specifically.

I requested and received permission from Dorene Scriven to copy pages from her Bluebird Trails, A Guide to Success showing pictures of the sparrow, sparrow beak, dead bluebirds from a sparrow attack and pages on house sparrows (all reduced and copied as a 2-sided legal sheet handout). This insert will be included in my handouts next year to houses that have table feeders and to their immediate neighbors to instill a little peer pressure to get those feeders down.

Don't get your hopes up. Be patient. People gradually become aware and supportive. Here's the changes I've seen in only one year:

* Maintenance crews no longer prune or cut down trees with nestboxes;

* Local papers are carrying articles;

* Table feeders are being replaced with tube feeders;

* Millet seed is being exchanged for Niger/thisle or hummer nectar

If you want a copy of the handout, let me know and I'll send you a copy.

Boone wrote:

About a week before my latest brood
fledged my neighbor put up a feeder and filled it with the standard
grocery store variety feed which is mostly millet, and of course you
know the rest of the story. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Frank R. Navratil Sr. North Riverside, IL (western suburb of Chicago)

MONOFILAMENT FISHING LINE AS A HOUSE SPARROW DETERRENT

My oh my! Of the entire BLUEBIRD-L net, only Haleya Priest and Carolyn Hall have seen the light!

When I wrote: "Oh yes! This spring I even learned how to keep House Sparrows out of the ground and pole platform feeders!"; only they took the bait. But this is no hoax! Convert to MAGIC MONO!!!

BACKGROUND INFORMATION The winter 1998-99 issue of Illinois Audubon magazine featured a section named "Illinois Audubon's Reader's Feeders - a collection of bird feeder ideas sent in by IAS members". On page 20, Ed & Evelyn Franks of Colchester, Illinois described their method for keeping House Sparrows away from their feeder. I repeat the text from the article now; (A photograph accompanies that article):

"5-gallon bird seed feeder with nylon lines. Two special techniques are involved here.

A. Using a 5-gallon pail, with an inch hole cut near the bottom of one side, and a tray and roof attached (lids from other 5-gallon pails), provides a feeder that does not need daily filling; it often lasts a week or two between fillings.

B. Note the almost-invisible monofilament nylon fishing lines that dangle from the roof (held down by the more-visible steel washers), and the nearly invisible horizontal nylon fishing line suspended 7 inches above the cracked corn on the shelf. The reason for the monofilament lines (use line rated at 12 pounds or less) is that House Sparrows seem to have a fear of those lines. For a feeder that is bothered by attracting too many House Sparrows, the nylon lines that are held about 7 inches from the feeding area will repel about 95% of the House Sparrows. We don't know why. Other common birds ignore the lines. So this is a good way to make House Sparrows avoid a feeder even though their preferred small seeds are present, while letting all of our native birds have uninhibited access. "

I telephoned Ed Franks and discussed this article. Here are some additional comments:

(a) He has used this technique successfully about 5 years now. Apparently this fear the House Sparrows have is genetic. They apparently don't get accustomed to the monofilament fishing line with time.

(b) His introduction to this method came from reading a report about experiments with nylon netting at garbage dumps to deter gulls. Someone noticed that House Sparrows were also deterred.

(c) A down side is that the monofilament fishing line degrades rapidly in the sun. (Forgot to ask how rapidly). Ed tried heavier line, but the Sparrows did not seem to be deterred by line rated at more than 12 pounds.

MY EXPERIENCE #1

After my telephone conversation with Ed, and based upon his 5 year success, I did the following:

I have a birdfeeder which is a board 8" wide x 33" long with a 1" high rim around the two 8" sides and one of the 33" sides. This feeder sits upon a railroad tie that places its surface 9" above the ground. I place one cup of white millet upon the feeder daily.

I bored holes at the center of each end (at the 8" sides) of the feeder and mounted two 1/2 inch PVC pipes to provide a mount 7" above feeder surface for the monofilament fishing line. Then I stretched and tied the monofilament line between the pipes 7" above the feeder surface. I used South Bend #M-1412 high knot strength 12# test monofilament fishing line.

30MAR99 was the test start day. Immediately, House Sparrows avoided this feeder. Some would come for a landing and would veer off. It is not a perfect deterrent, but better than the 95% that Ed Franks rates it at. An occasional House Sparrow would nervously land and feed on the feeder edge briefly. The House Sparrows will feed upon spilled millet up to the base of the railroad tie.

An interesting issue is that all House Finches also stopped feeding on this millet feeder! Ed Franks' experience is that House Finches continue to feed.

DETERRED: House Sparrows, House Finches.

NOT DETERRED: Mourning Dove, Junco, Cow Bird, Common Grackle, Chipping Sparrow, White Capped Sparrow, Indigo Bunting, Squirrel.

6JUN99 (67 days later) I removed the monofilament line to see how long it would take the House Sparrows to return. As of today 14JUN99 (8 days later), neither House Sparrows nor House Finches have returned to this feeder!

MY EXPERIENCE #2

I have a pole mounted birdfeeder which is a 18" x 18" wooden platform with a 1" high rim on three sides. Its surface is 5-1/2 feet above the ground. I place 2 cups of sunflower seed upon the feeder daily.

6JUN99 I mounted monofilament line 7" above the center of the feeder surface. Immediately House Sparrows stopped their feeding here. Another interesting point is that House Finches continue to feed on the sunflower seed at this feeder as if nothing has changed!

14JUN99 (8 days later).

DETERRED: Only House Sparrows.

NOT DETERRED: House Finch, Purple Finch, Cardinal, Blue Jay, Grackle, Dove.

MY EXPERIENCE #3

I asked Ed Franks if this monofilament worked with bird houses. He said that he tried it on one, but it did not keep the House Sparrows out. Well I am trying this monofilament with Bluebird boxes. I will share my experience with you later. So far I am encouraged. It seems to work in deterring House Sparrows most of the time.

SO LET'S TRY IT

I hope many of you try this monofilament with your bird feeders. It really seems to work. I sure would appreciate feedback about the results of your trials.

Monofilament web pages, feeders, nestboxes

Here in Nebraska the nestbox builders have experimented with a two roof design using pexiglass for the lower roof and about 2" above it a wooden roof. You can't look into the nest but it lets extra light into the box. i have not heard the results of the testing. Maybe someone on the BAN board could respond to this question?

Carolyn Hall, Bassett, NE The Sandhills Bluebird lady...

Dan & Rachel Thomas wrote:

Dan Thomas Lancaster PA

Unfortunately I'm also blessed with many H.
sparrows. I had a box where 7 chickadees fledged. Cleaned the box out and
the same week sparrows started nest building. Several weeks ago someone on
the list mentioned cutting a hole in the roof and installing screen or
plexiglass. I cut a 2 inch hole in the roof and covered the hole with a 4
inch square piece of plexiglass. The sparrows have not bothered it since.
I also have alot of wrens and they do not enter the box. This is my
first year at bluebirding and was wondering if anyone tried the screen or
glass roof? I was told the BBs do not mind the extra light. What about
TRES? Will the plexiglass cause too much heat? The added light coming in
from the roof allows you to inspect the box, looking in the hole without
having to open the box.

Linda asked that I post the following results at one of my bad house sparrow locations:

Western bluebirds started a nest about April 1st and fledged three birds  on 5-14. On 5-26 I cleaned out a house sparrow nest with 6 eggs and swapped the standard box with a large two-holer given to me by Linda. On 6-2 bluebirds had a nest with 1 egg. On 6-17 two birds hatched from five eggs.  On 7-9 two birds fledged. Even after fledging I saw bluebirds and sparrows fighting!

Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas
I agree with Joe on the height issue with House Sparrows. They may prefer higher nest sites but will use boxes very low. Also it is being passed around the lists that sparrows prefer the "tunnel effect" of a thick entrance hole like when the second front is applied (add on predator guard). but I have seen hundreds of Purple Martin houses made with .030 thick aluminum and filled with happy House Sparrows. These boxes are also only 1" deep from bottom of hole to top of floor.....so much for deep boxes attracting House Sparrows. I believe if you design a box and the hole is at least 1&1/4" round you will get house Sparrows nesting in it if they are around.

Cedar posts:Natural wood decay is brought on by armies of microscopic life forms of both plant (molds and fungi) and animals. They avoid treated lumber because it usually contains some form of arsenic and cedar has been used for centuries because it is known to repel insects. If it lasts in the ground then there are few forms of life that can thrive in the environment created by the dead cedar....Has anyone on the list ever seen woodpeckers build a home in a dead cedar tree? The Eastern cedar is really a soft wood, it has hard knots but planes and cuts quite well. I have a beautiful log home made from red oak that a yellow Shafted woodpecker hollowed out and they even work in elm trees which have horrible twisted grain wood. what about the western cedar and how are they used by woodpeckers?. KK

I live in Mississippi. My 10 year old son and I love feeding the birds.We have made our backyard into a "nature area!Some of you may have read when we first joined our Letter that had been sent out by Backyard Nature on how we have transformed our residential backyard into what my little son calls a naturistic backyard. We have every day the same amount and the same kind of birds. In the morning we have at least 30 Mourning Doves and about the same or 40 Cardinals they also appear before their "bedtime " for a snack along with the white throated Sparrows. In between, during the day we have one red breasted Nuthatch, two Chickadees{Carolina},one Tufted Titmouse,Absolutley no Bluebirds,which we have waited for, and our "Jenny" Wren{Winter Wren}. Then I cannot tell you the number of English Sparrows! Now I put out their food in the mornings and by early afternoon, it is all gone! My son said in the beginning ,"Momma, we are going to feed them all",and we did, but now, if they continue to eat this way, I do not know what to do. If it was all our songbirds, I would be delighted,but now the English Sparrows are taking over. I wonder if this is why we do not get more "songbirds" and or Bluebirds. Any sugesstions?One -I will not go for killing them, my son loves all animals and I will not do that ,but if someone knows of another solution. I feed, black-oil sunflower seeds, and Regular bird mix,in feeders,one open public feeder many house type feeders, in logs, on the ground,but you may say on the ground draws them, these Sparrows have taken over my song bird feeders! Oh,also we do have the neatest Red-Bellied Woodpecker. We have had visitors,like a Junco, A Red Breasted Grosbeak,and two Carolina Wrens. Also let me add ,I enjoy reading all of your letters. Thanks a lot. Have a nice day.
Chrystal and Johnny

Hello Chrystal & Johnny. Seems your nature preserve has become unnatural with the coming of House Sparrows to your feeders. There is very little you can do to prevent them from gulping down huge amounts of feed. If anything they may increase in numbers every year and dominate your feeder area. At the present you have many nice birds visiting that others would love to be feeding. I'm sure you will get other suggestions but your open feeding will not be included. Some restrictions on how to feed may seem to help but none ever appealed to me. I prefer to feed like we should do it -without any House Sparrows to spoil it. Some people get the House Finch confused with the sparrow. You seem to know your birds. Hope you can still enjoy your birds. With large numbers of sparrows you may not see any Bluebirds. Joe Huber Venice Fl.

Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif.

If sparrows are attracted to your yard then you are probably doing more harm than good. Would recommend selective feeding. Try not to upset the balance of our native birds by aiding and abetting their unnatural (alien) competitors such as sparrow/starlings. Go ahead and put out hummer feeders (sparrows and starlings won't benefit). Use niger/thistle seed feeders with those tiny holes only finches can access and avoid open-table feeders.

You won't find sparrows in remote forests because people aren't there to feed them, thank goodness.

Johnny Buster wrote:

Then I cannot tell you the number of English Sparrows! Now I put out their
food in the mornings and by early afternoon, it is all gone! My son said in
the beginning ,"Momma, we are going to feed them all",and we did, but now,
....

Great post Linda.

I think if people practiced selective feeding and stopped throwing out bread there would be a whole lot less house sparrows. There is probably a lot more ways to selective feed to exclude HOSP.

Can others add to ways of excluding House Sparrows from feeding stations.

I live in a rural area and there are no HOSP here. But if I drive a couple miles down the road there are always a few hanging around the convenience store.

What is it that folks are doing to attract them?

Gary Springer,

Northeast Georgia

....

Hi Bluebirders: From Western MD 35degrees here & 15 mph winds.--

Let me tell you a little House Sparrow story!

Back in 1993 when I first set up my trail at the 80a. Co. Park I had high hopes for Bluebirds. Lo & behold, the sparrows were claiming 50% of the boxes. Each day I cleared out nests almost completed. It was then I declared WAR on the House Sparrow (HOSP), borrowed my neighbor's BB gun and sat in waiting for the male HOSP, I took aim & fired one shot--missed him by 2", when I arrived home the Park Supt. was calling me & said he was informed I was up there shooting starlings (big lie).
It was a rainy day, cold & no one in the park so I figured it would be safe. He quoted the law and I thought I'd wind up in Alcatraz.

So, next I went out and bought the neat sparrow trap for $36.00 pictured frequently on our network. Next day I checked & found 2 sparrows inside but when I arrived home received another call--you guessed it right, it was the Supt. again! So I removed the trap and now lend out to friends.

The battle lost but war not over! I realized that earlier in the year TWO feed mills just 2 Mi. distant had closed. I didn't have to burn down the feed mills, they were converted to businesses. That explained the influx of HOSP.

Research revealed sparrows do not like a lighted box. So, 2 yrs. later installed the screen in top w/clear plastic bag for protection of nesting Bluebird...it has worked! A sparrow might attempt to build but just 1/4 way complete he will abandon it for a bad job.

PS I don't think the Supt. likes me so much but the people in Middletown enjoy the Bluebirds. Five years later,there are very few sparrows. Hope my luck continues this year and the Supt. NEVER calls me again. Betty Nichols, Middletown, MD

Dear Betty,

God bless you and your intelligence. I'm sorry this is where I get ripped. It's the same misguided folks who will never allow their ignorance to impede their adamant tendencies. I recall seeing TV coverage of whitetail deer in Indiana's Brown County State Park. These graceful and magnificent creatures of God's Handiwork reduced to a starving, helpless, pathetic source of disease and suffering.

A given amount of acreage can support a given balance of nature under given conditions. The invasion of starlings and house sparrows have robbed our native songbirds of their natural habitat. Why folks can't see this is beyond me. Trapping or shooting is a personal preference. Safety is paramount.

I was taught to kill only what is eaten or what is harmful. I deem starlings and sparrows harmful. I personally think harmful as being any unprotected bird that may prevent future generations the joy of the sight and sounds of our native bluebirds. God blessed America by placing bluebirds in the United States by His choosing.

I'm selfish. The third times a charm. Our first two children inquire as to when the bluebirds will return to build their nest. I answer when you grow tired of sleigh riding. I hope to be present when our third child (age 15 months) comments after first peeking into a nestbox and seeing eggs. I hope to be present when she first sees baby bluebirds. I hope to hear the compassion in her voice as she expresses concern for the welfare of the babies when they fly away. She'll learn how God cares for them as He does; however, I don't personally think God shines on ignorance.

Thanks for the screen in top w/clear plastic bag suggestion. I'll give it a try.

... 

Hi Gary and List,

Remember that the two hole box is also wider than the standard. The theory goes that this prevents the house sparrow from pinning the adult bluebird, and allows the bluebird to use it's wider wingspan to it's advantage to manuever and escape thru whichever hole it can get to.

Dave Bagley
Maryland
....

I haven't seen anything on this and it is an important factor in this area where many of us feed birds all year long. Feed black oil sunflower seeds instead of the cheap mixes of small seed. (in addition to suet, thistle seeds for the finches, etc.). House sparrows here do not come to feeders where this practice is followed, and I emphasize this in all of my speeches on bluebirds. (10 scheduled so far to a total of several hundred people. BB interest in this area is continuing to grow. Bluebird Bob, Coweta, OK.

Let me add "Amen" to Walshaw's suggestion of feeding black oil sunflower seeds. In the fall, winter, and early spring, I usually fed the black oil sunflower; then safflower in the summer, as squirrels and grackles do not seem to like the safflower seed. It is a little more expensive, per pound; however, if you're not feeding squirrels and grackles, your TOTAL cost is less.

The problem is, however, the accumulation of seed hulls under the feeder(s). Now living in a Townhome, I feed the "medium chipped sunflower seed" (no hulls), peanut parts, thistle (niger), suet, grape jelly, and nectar (home-made sugar water). Happy birding! Stan Merrill stan_1_10"at"yahoo.com St. Paul, MN

Bob:

That, I think is even more imporant than educating people to take down or monitor their little "birdboxes" with hay hanging out the door, and I think that is might important too. I have a friend who is sort of new to bluebirding and is paying the price for feeding the sparrows during the winter. I agree with you completely on the feed.

Bill Darnell, Savannah, TN
Lat: 35:18:32.407N
Lon 88:10:31.368W
=========

I haven't seen anything on this and it is an important factor in this area where many of us feed birds all year long. Feed black oil sunflower seeds instead of the cheap mixes of small seed. (in addition to suet, thistle seeds for the finches, etc.). House sparrows here do not come to feeders where this practice is followed, and I emphasize this in all of my speeches on bluebirds. (10 scheduled so far to a total of several hundred people. BB interest in this area is continuing to grow. Bluebird Bob, Coweta, OK.

Hello all,

Feeding only Black Oil Sunflower seeds will probably reduce the appeal of your feeding area to the House Sparrow, but in my experience, will have the same effect on chipping sparrows, field sparrows, etc..

Reducing the variety of seeds offered reduces the number of desirable birds at our feeders as well as the undesirable species.

I have never seen a house sparrow on my property but after observing several of my neighbors yards, its a wonder. Although the numbers aren't high, they all have them. There's something else people do that brings them in and I don't know what it is.

My nearest neighbor is 500 yards away.

None of my neighbors have as an intensive bird feeding program as I have nor do they have any where near the number of birds and other wild animals.

In addition to feeding large amounts of Black Oil Sunflower seeds, I also throw out about 50 pound of white millet each week, and a couple tons of corn each winter.

The only obvious differences between my neighbors yards and mine is that I don't have any cats or dogs.

Is it possible that there is something direct or indirect about cats or dogs that results in an environment attractive to House Sparrows?

Maybe there is something desirable to the house sparrow not present in an area until there are dogs or cats. Could the dogs or cats people bring in be the primary reason house sparrows exist only where there are people and houses?

Or, maybe there is something present that house sparrows fear greatly or find unattractive but which are eliminated or greatly reduced by dogs or cats, like snakes or something even less obvious.

Is there anyone that has no dogs or cats, has no neighbors within 500 yards with dogs or cats, and has no dogs or cats that frequent your property, but still has house sparrows?

Gary Springer

Hello All:

Gary, Your question re: pets/food effecting presence of House Sparrows helped me recall the following experience:

About 8 yrs. ago I installed a trail of 8 boxes at a large, established cemetery. There were no pets there, of course, no bird feeding going on. The nearest neighbor was a farm about 3 mi. distant. BUT THERE WERE LOTS OF BUSHES, all decorative and not necessarily seed-bearing. The bushes were crawling w/sparrows that eventually resulted in removing the entire trail. (Trapping would be inappropriate in a cemetery.)

I think the key to sparrow survival is FOOD and SHELTER. If only low-growing bushes are present the sparrows will congregate in large numbers and find a food source within a five-mile area.

The resourceful habits of the House Sparrow has contributed immensely to its proliferation. We must change his life-style!

Betty Nichols, Middletown, MD - cloudy, cold "at" 30*.

Hi, Gary and all:

I don't have a lot of house sparrows (although the 6-8 I have seem more than enough to me!). I stopped feeding anything but black oiled sunflower seeds and homemade suet a couple of years ago (the bluebirds really go after the suet now but the first year they didn't go near it). However, when my migrants start returning to nest here I put high-quality mixed seed out intube feeders for a couple of months. Until a few months ago I had no dogs,  the cats are never allowed out of the house (outdoor cats and bird feeding seem somewhat incompatible) and I live in a narrow valley right in the middle of the eastern Washington prairies (where mostly wheat is grown). I live on 169 acres with the closest neighbor 1/2 mile away "as the crow or house sparrow flies" but no neighbors within sight. The neighbors are mostly farmers although a number commute to Spokane to work, as I do. I don't know how the house sparrows found me because I didn't have any for the first 2 1/2 years I lived here; the same goes for the brown-headed cowbirds only my reaction to them is a lot more violent! At any rate, Gary, I would certainly like to know what it is about your site that discourages the little beggars!

Regards, Joanne
Reardan (Spokane) WA
mailto: jhpowell"at"iea.com

Any discussion of House Sparrow proliferation must include mention of barnyards, stables, poultry farms, ranches, etc, - any locale where a lot of FEED is readily available. If any such setup is anywhere near your Bluebird houses, you're probably going to have a fight on your hands. It would help, of course, if people were careful about keeping their feed covered and out of reach, but those sparrows will find it if they possibly can, and they usually do.

GOOD pellet guns and efficient traps look more and more like the bluebirders best friends. Remember: House Sparrows and Starlings are vermin, -"flying rats", as our local extension guy calls them.

Bruce Burdett, NH Bluebird Conspiracy, Sunapee NH
blueburd"at"srnet.com

Any discussion of House Sparrow proliferation must include mention of
barnyards, stables, poultry farms, ranches, etc, - any locale where a lot
of FEED is readily available. If any such setup is anywhere near your
Bluebird houses, you're probably going to have a fight on your hands. It
would help, of course, if people were careful about keeping their feed
covered and out of reach, but those sparrows will find it if they possibly
can, and they usually do.
GOOD pellet guns and efficient traps look more and more like the
bluebirders best friends. Remember: House Sparrows and Starlings are
vermin, -"flying rats", as our local extension guy calls them.

Bill Darnell, Savannah, TN
Lat: 35:18:32.407N
Lon 88:10:31.368W
Elev 420', aprox.

As one who was born and raised around farms, if anyone can find a way to salvage, collect, or otherwise protect that feed that get wasted, they will become instantly rich! Seems to be impossible around livestock. They just don't have good table manners.

I think guns, traps, and not providing "purty birdboxes" for their nesting slums are on the right track.

Bill Darnell, Savannah, TN
Lat: 35:18:32.407N
Lon 88:10:31.368W
Elev 420', aprox.

Don't mean to be a list hog this morning, but sparrows and their control are an interest of mine.

I planted some bamboo last fall. I did it because it is thick and green during the winter. The fellow who gave me the rhizomes told me birds flock into his canebreak to roost in the winter. Now, I am beginning to wonder if I have made a collozzzl mistake! It is not too late to get rid of it. The type I have is not the real agressive type, but is spreads. And it gets thick!

I am very fortunate that of 50+ boxes, I only have a sparrow problem with one. Don't want to make it worse.

Dot F.,Lake Ontario snowbelt 35 miles north of Syracuse, NY

My resident house sparrow (HOSP) population took a quick dive when my
neighbor a few houses away chopped down his rugosa rose hedges.
....
Dot

Dot F.,Lake Ontario snowbelt 35 miles north of Syracuse, NY

My resident house sparrow (HOSP) population took a quick dive when my neighbor a few houses away chopped down his rugosa rose hedges. I am aware that these shrubs are recommended as wildlife plantings, but they made a perfect winter home for HOSP, with their thorns and dense twiggy little branches. Many of my neighbors have hedges of other plants, with few HOSP, but the rugosa rose was definitely prime HOSP habitat. (they also attract Japanese beetles) If anyone knows of other shrubs that attract and protect HOSP, I'm sure we'd all like to know what they are, so we can avoid planting them.

Dot

Hello all,

It really does seem to me that the presence of people adds or subtracts something from the native environment, other than more food and shelter, that converts the environment into one that is always inhabited by the House Sparrow(HOSP) from one that is never inhabited by them. There is plenty of food and shelter in our remote forest and second growth areas to support large populations of less aggressive and less prolific native sparrows, yet the HOSP is totally absent in nearly all of these remote areas.

The most common and seemingly valid arguments to explain the spread of HOSP to wherever people gather center around food and shelter.

The food argument seems weakened because cattle feed is blamed for their presence around farms, mixed bird feed for their presence in suburbs where there is no cattle feed, and bread scraps for their presence in inner cities where there is no cattle feed and too few bird feeders to support their populations. Of course they have to eat something, so we blame their presence on whatever different food they happen to be eating.

But for 6 years I've taken all the foods mentioned above, except for the bread scraps, and spread them abundantly over a 5 acre area. And despite the explosion in the numbers of many types of native sparrows, the birds of prey, and snakes, I have never seen a HOSP here.

In addition, the HOSP is much more aggressive than our native sparrows. If the native sparrows that eat the same foods are able to find sufficient fare to live without the handouts and scraps from people, why wouldn't the HOSP find sufficient food to populate areas away from the influences of people? By what good fortune is it that the HOSP isn't invading our remote forests and thickets?

Regarding shelter, even where there are no people, there are Bluebirds and tree swallows. If the HOSP is so much more aggressive and prolific, why isn't it competing heavily for these native birds' natural nesting sites in woodpecker holes 10 miles away from the nearest house, barn or silo?

Also, in addition to the literally tons of food I throw out, I have an old wood siding house built between 1860 and 1885 with plenty of the HOSP's favorite nesting sites in knot holes and wide gaps between the boards. Still no straw, string and scraps hanging out from house sparrow nests like there would be if the building was located in town. And, I intentionally cultivate about 5 acres of bushes, thickets and brambles for wildlife habitat that in many areas are impenetrable.

If we stopped looking for reasons for the presence of HOSPS based solely on what we see them doing in places where we have attracted them, and instead tried to explain what is different in the more natural and secluded places that makes these areas unsuitable for HOSP, we might come up with different conclusions. And, these new conclusions may lead us to more effective ways of reducing the populations of this largely unwanted species.

Gary Springer

Dear Joanne,

Have you had a house cat since you first moved onto the property?

Also, were you the first human occupants of the dwelling on the property you described, or, did other previous owners own cats and/or dogs before you moved there?

Gary

... 

I have some holly bushes and other shrubs on my property, and while I realize that they provide cover for House Sparrows, they also provide good cover for desirable species such as cardinals and the variety of native sparrows around here. In fact, I'd like to remove one eyesore bush--a half-dead crape myrtle with honey suckle growing all over it, but there is a cardinal nest in there every year, so I refuse to take it out. If we want to provide habitat for desirable birds, we may get undesirable species as well, but there are ways of dealing with them.

There were no house sparrows when I moved here. I think I attracted them with cheap bird feed, but I have noticed less of them at the feeder since switching to sunflower and safflower seeds. At this feeder I still regularly see plenty of white-crowned sparrows, white-throated sparrows, and one Harris sparrow, as well as several other species.

Kate Oschwald
Sumner, TX
100 mi NE of Dallas

Dear Kathleen,

In my experiences watching closely from a blind, the smaller sparrows can't open the black oil sunflower seeds like the larger white throats, white crowned, and Harris sparrows.

There are many sparrows of 4.5 to 5 inches while those you mentioned all attain 7 to 7.5 inches with a body mass and bill structure nearly twice that of the smaller sparrows.

I agree with your decision to leave in place the vegetation where the birds take cover. In my opinion, that isn't what is attracting the House sparrows.

Gary

... 

I neglected to look at and modify the reply to address in my post, so I'm sending this one again:

Gary and Joanne,

Pardon me for jumping in here, but could you both tell us what your elevation is?

Brenda

...

Fawzi, et al,

I neglected to say, in answer to your question, that ALL my pairs of houses (sites) are located in grasslands of one kind or another. Most of them are in what I would call 'meadows' which are mowed once or twice each summer. I'd call them 'pastures,' except that nothing grazes there. Hopefully (in a hopeful manner), I keep a few in grassed areas that are probably too small, but I never get any Bluebirds nesting in them, only Tree Swallows. I'll probably give up soon, and move them to larger spaces. A few are located in very large lawns, and they generally do fine. I haven't done the cemetery thing yet, but I plan to. We have no golf course in town. Another likely spot is an old dump which has recently been officially and scientifically sealed and grassed over. It looks perfect. In our own yard, no Bluebirds, because our 'lawn' is tiny, and we're surrounded by thick woods.

I hope my garbled description gives you at least an idea of my situations.

Bruce Burdett, NHBC, Sunapee NH blueburd"at"srnet.com

P.S.: An old card-players' saying also applies to us bluebirders: "You have to play the cards you're dealt."

Hello everyone.... I'm new to the BB list, so I hope I'm replying correctly.

Does this mean if there are cats in the area, there may not be as many house sparrows? There are several [any where from 4 to 17] feral cats living in our neighbor's barn. They very often wonder around my barn, but never come near the feeders as the feeders are in the fenced yard where the dogs are. I don't think I've seen a house sparrow in the two years we've been here. Bluebirds have been successful in several of our BB houses we have around our property [130 acres of woods and fields].

Judy Tripp
Palermo, ME

mailto:jctripp"at"larck.net

... 

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Springer"

Hello all,

It really does seem to me that the presence of people adds or subtracts
something from the native environment, other than more food and shelter,
that converts the environment into one that is always inhabited by the
House
Sparrow(HOSP) from one that is never inhabited by them.


Hello, Gary, Kevin and all--

We live in a quite isolated area, nearest neighbor three miles away, and
still have house sparrows from time to time. There is no outdoor feeding of
grain to cattle or other animals in the vicinity, though there is plenty of
natural grass and other plant seeds for birds to eat. When the house
sparrows first arrived, I quit feeding everything except black oil sunflower
and thistle--if nothing else is available the house sparrows eat the black
oil like they love it. And they'll eat safflower seed as well when there
are not alternatives.

I purchased the repeating sparrow trap offered by Gurney's for $50 about 3
months ago. So far I've caught one house finch with it. I've not been able
to catch a decoy to put in the trap so don't know if that would help. I've
had much better luck with shooting them, but there are still one or two
pairs here and they're very wary of me now. It's much too early for birds
to start nesting here--most of our nesters haven't even arrived yet--but I
hope to be rid of the house sparrows by nesting season. And I can't explain
why they came here and seem so set on staying. I thought it was because we
had nest boxes in the yard at one time, but taking those down has not seemed
to discourage them either. So far we have not found any signs of house
sparrows in the BB boxes in the pastures. But I think that expalining why
house sparrows go where they do is not an easy matter!!

Linda
SE Wyoming Grasslands, USA
ljand"at"vcn.com

Hi,

I love to feed Black oil sunflower seeds.. they are cheaper than the striped one (in my area anyways). I found an easy way to avoid the hulls in the spring on the ground. Put a sheet of plastic under the feeder (an old shower curtin liner is ok too) and then in the sping, before the grass starts up.. remove the liner, take it to a spot that is away from the yard and shake it out. Up will come numerous sunflowers from the seeds dropped and you have an instant sunflower patch.. in which the birds will come to eat!

Enjoy..
Diane Slavin
Vernon, NY

Let me add "Amen" to Walshaw's suggestion of feeding black oil sunflower seeds. In the fall, winter, and early spring, I usually fed the black oil sunflower; then safflower in the summer, as squirrels and grackles do not seem to like the safflower seed. It is a little more expensive, per pound; however, if you're not feeding squirrels and grackles, your TOTAL cost is less.

The problem is, however, the accumulation of seed hulls under the feeder(s). Now living in a Townhome, I feed the "medium chipped sunflower seed" (no hulls), peanut parts, thistle (niger), suet, grape jelly, and nectar (home-made sugar water). Happy birding! Stan Merrill stan_1_10"at"yahoo.com St. Paul, MN

Elevation about 740 feet above sea level

Gary Springer,

Writing from the foothills of the Appalachian Mountains in Northeast Georgia, further north than most of South Carolina and a bit of North Carolina
Member NABS, Bluebird Society of Pennsylvania, and Ohio Bluebird Society
www.realbirdhomes.com

... 

Dear Judy and all,

In an effort to find differences between my property, where there are no House Sparrows(HOSP) and the surrounding neighbors properties' where there are HOSP, I noted that I am the only one that does not have either a cat or dog.

I know it sounds like I am really reaching looking for a correlation here. But it is possible that when humans move in with cats and dogs that there are creatures too shy to be near our homes, creatures that the HOSP avoids. And, HOSP may therefore be more likely to populate areas where there are cats and dogs because the creature that moved out when the people, cats, and dogs moved is no longer a perceived or real threat to the HOSP.

The creature could be a particular kind of owl, a certain snake, a type of hawk or just about anything that frequents towns less than remote areas. It could even be the bob white quail or a snail the HOSP just doesn't like the looks of. And, whatever creature that it might be doesn't have to be a real threat to the HOSP. The HOSP only needs to perceive it as a threat.

There is another animal that the neighbors have more of than I, despite the fact that my property has far more ideal habitat and feed for this animal. I would think they would have none of these animals given all the dogs and cats constantly on the prowl. But they definitely have more than I because I can hardly drive by their property in the early morning or night without seeing one or more of them, yet I rarely see one along my road front.

That animal is the cottontail rabbit. And, I believe the reason there are more rabbits where there are more cats and dogs is that the Great Horned Owl, foxes, and the snakes which are numerous here are much more effective in catching rabbits than either cats or dogs. So while it seems there would be less rabbits where there are cats and dogs, there are actually more because there are less snakes, owls and foxes.

So, even though you have no cats or dogs, the neighbors cats or dogs or even your house cat that just looks out the window may be scaring off something that is a real or perceived threat to the HOSP.

I hope this helps all of you understand why I think there may be more to the HOSP question than food and habitat, and that it is possible it could have something to do with cats and dogs, or any one hundreds of things we do when we convert wilderness into city.

Gary Springer

*Terrie in NW Ohio (Mt. Blanchard) 45 miles south of Toledo (cloudy, 40*)

I have an obscene amount of HOSP's here. I rarely feed mixed birdseed (only when it's very cold and the song sparrows beg!). However, my sister-in-law (1/4 mile away) goes through an enormous amount of mixed seed. I (ashamed to say) was hoping that the HOSP's would go there and leave me and my(!) bluebirds alone. No such luck. We have several out buildings with chickens and such and the HOSP's think they are all for them. I also have privet hedges along the front of our property and along a strip in the back. I won't take those down as the cardinals love them! We have a 3 acre field that is planted with pheasant habitat and has mowed trails winding through. This is the preferred nesting for the tree swallows (and red-winged blackbirds). Our barn usually hosts a couple pairs of barn swallows. The bluebirds prefer my backyard (fairly close to the pond). This is where I have their mealworm feeder set up. (They have gotten quite used to it and will wait for me there as soon as they see me outside). I've given lots of information - maybe this will help someone out there with do's & don'ts. If you think of an easy way to get rid of HOSP's please let me know!

But Gary, I have no HOSP, the neighbors have several dogs and a couple of cats which reconnoiter my yard several times a day.

Bill Darnell, Savannah, TN
Lat: 35:18:32.407N
Lon 88:10:31.368W
Elev 420', aprox.
(with much needed rain today)

...

Hello all,

Assuming Bill's neighbors cats and dogs have been there for several years, I guess the cats and dog theory just went up in smoke.

Thanks Bill

Any other ideas?

Gary Springer

... 

Gary,

My mother has one dog and several cats. She lives against the state game lands here in Pennsylvania with no neighbors within 500 ft. She has no sparrows. She has plenty of chickadees, goldfinches, tufted titmouse, hummingbirds, nuthatches, woodpeckers, to name a few. Lots of butterflies, spiders, you name it but no sparrows. Several years ago she had a black bear that came out of the woods to drink out of the bird bath and one day when I was there, I saw a flock of wild turkeys up on the hill in back of the house. Never saw a bluebird though. Chickadees nest in her nestbox which is attached to her light pole.

Cindy, South Central Penna. Member of Bluebird Society of Pennsylvania

Thank you Cindy,

It sounds like the biggest difference between your mother's place and mine is the dogs and cats. I bet she feels like she's in heaven.

Apparently, I had better find a new house sparrow theory.

Any help?

How wonderful this list is!

Gary Springer

... 

Hi Gary:

Yes, I have had the cats since I moved here. This was an old family homestead of some local farmers and had not been lived in by the family for years. They had rented it out off and on to have someone around to keep an eye on the property. It had been vacant for about 8 months before I moved here but it was obvious that dogs lived here sometime earlier. I moved here in Sept. of 1995 and there were no house sparrows, starlings or brown-headed cowbirds then. I put up feeders as soon as I moved in and had good response (with lots of *good* birds). The second year the starlings showed up (that was the year I put up the 10 bluebirds houses) and the next year the cowbirds and the house sparrows arrived. There's about a 75' frontage to the creek with meadows on both sides of the house. A pine "forest" runs up the hill behind me and mixed deciduous and pine trees across the creek and running up a steepish grade to the top of the hillside facing the front of the house. The narrowness of the area between the creek and the hillsides limits the number of bluebird boxes which I can erect. I hope this has clarified the circumstances around which these little *&!+^ installed themselves.

Regards, Joanne
Reardan (Spokane) WA (eastmost side of the state)
mailto: jhpowell"at"iea.com

... 

HI, Brenda:

I'm sorry I don't have the exact elevation here. The plains west of Spokane are at about 22-2300 ft. Spokane is about 35 miles west of the Idaho border. My valley is about 300 ft lower; it's a \_/-shape cut in the plains. My driveway (1/2 mile long) starts at this upper level where I have put up two nestboxes used by Mt Bluebirds every year. The other nestboxes (and my house) are about 300 ft lower and only have Western Bluebirds (the boxes, not my house).

Joanne
Reardan (Spokane) WA
mailto: jhpowell"at"iea.com

...

Bill Darnell, Savannah, TN
Lat: 35:18:32.407N=20
Lon 88:10:31.368W
Elev 420', aprox. (raining)

Pretty sure I know why I have none that I know of. 1/4 mile North of  me, there is a boer goat farm. Covered with HOSP! About the same distance South, cattle and a barn. I believe all the HOSP are so happy in these elements, why would they move where they have no guinea feathers to use in their slummy nests, or all that spilled livestock food and manure to peck in?

Gary - they are spreading into all areas as has happened with the starling. My mini-ranch is 25 acres of oak woods and pasture, and I am some 15 miles out of the city, and yet counting this spring I have trapped more than 100 house sparrows. The problem is most serious near some of my neighbors who continue to feed cheap mixed bird seed. At least in this area this is the biggest reason for the spread of house sparrows. Bluebird Bob, Coweta, OK.

Sherry Hunter

Byron Center, MI (10 miles south of Grand Rapids)

For the last month I have stopped filling my hopper and flythrough feeders with mixed seed. I now only put out oil sunflower and stripped sunflower seeds in my feerders along with my thistle feeders and seut log feeder. I have noticed since I have done this that my house sparrow population has been dramatically reduced. I had about 30 house sparrows coming this winter but now only have about 10 or less a day. I have also stopped filling my hanging wire suet feeder to keep the starling population down. They try to hang on my seut log feeder but are not very successful and for the most part leave it alone. I have not seen any house sparrows go to my bluebird house (yet and hope never). My bluebird pair is still coming to my bluebird house, Mr and Mrs are going inside together now, but still no claim straw or nest. Probably a good thing as it is still too cold here.

Gary and all, about the HOuse SParrow (HOSP) that Gary is so lucky not to have: Gary count your blessings and keep your fingers crossed, the HOSPs are very clever, and might come to visit sometime. Did you see if they are moving (i.e. creeping population) from another place, and that they may reach your place next? I hope you stay HOSP free! Here, I changed feeding to only Black Sunflower seed, Safflower seed and thistle seed. I also trapped all the HOSP I could find a couple of months ago (only about two dozen). Now I get one or two HOSPs, but they do not seem to stay long, they move away... so I am happy about that. We have pets, but they are all indoors. Our neighbors have cats and dogs, some of which stray on our side. We also have the cotton-tail rabbits. In the winter we see fox. Deer are present year round (saw a few tonight). Lots of song birds, woodpeckers, and not near enough bluebirds...

Fawzi Emad, Laytonsville, Maryland
In Northern Montgomery County
30 miles North of Washington, DC

Dear Fawzi,

I just hope all the writing I did about not having House Sparrows doesn't jinx me. If things go the way they normally do, I'll have House Sparrows this year. Now they've got me worrying.

Gary

Kevin Putman, Yuba City, Ca

I have found House Sparrows well away from human dwellings here in the Sacramento Valley. Two examples: H. sparrows nesting in mud nests of bank swallows under bridges; H. sparrows colonizing large dead valley oak trees w/ lots of natural cavities. None of the usual attractions as in cities, barnyards, etc., in these cases, but there is lots of grain during fall / winter because rice & wheat are grown here. So they get plenty of grain--at least in fall and winter--but in spring H. sparrows feed insects to their young, just as bluebirds do, so I don't think grain is necessarily a requirement for them.

I find large concentrations of H. sparrows in the urban subdivisions here roosting in dense hedges of Fotinia (sp?). H. sparrows and starlings love these dense shrubs.

It seems that the H. sparrows are still colonizing new niches here on this continent; just because they aren't in remote forests now doesn't mean that they won't exploit such habitats in the future. I think the two cases I cited above may be instances where H. sparrows have recently learned to colonize a new niche for themselves.

I wonder if the H. sparrows in the Old World are more or less restricted to living in association with humans, as here, or if there are any free-ranging populations in extremely remote areas of Eurasia or Africa. If so, maybe the sparrows that were brought to the Americas--captive / domesticated ones--have left descendants that are genetically predisposed to live in association with humans.

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