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Problems with house sparrows on the bluebird trailDisposing of Captured HOSPs (House Sparrows)Also see other HOSP information under Active Control, Passive Control, Lime, General, Predator Identification, etc. In addition to Messages that have appeared in the Bluebird Mailing Lists on this topic, the following are on the Audubon Society of Omaha website:
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 14:02:26 -0600 Hi, I was wondering what the best method for killing sparrows is. Anyone who knows of an idea let me know. Thanks! Jess Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 01:01:32 EDT Rhonda Watts Killing anything is a tough subject. Never thought I really could do it until I found 2 bloodied, dying bluebird nestlings, having interrupted the male sparrow in the act. That time, he got away, but I sat down nearby and just waited, and sure enough, he came back within about 5 min. I erupted up off the ground, flung open the nesting box, and caught him in midair with a HARD slap from my cap. He hit the ground, fluttered off a little way, and that was that. What works best for me, and has to be about the quickest, is to keep the sparrow in the bag you've sent him into from the trap box. One hard smack of the bag against the nearest tree trunk, stone wall, or building deals with the sparrow. I used this method while in England a year ago (no, NOT on a sparrow there!) Someone found a nest of baby rats in the stable, and no one (including 2 strong men) wanted to be the one to deal with them. It was left to the "hard-bitten" American to take away the rats and cope!
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 08:45:52 -0700 Dear Jess, In your Message about killing House Sparrows...I have always recommended to folks who cannot kill the birds is to call your local Wildlife Raptor Rehab Center and ask if they would like to have the sparrows you are trapping? House Sparrows make great Raptor chow for the injured Birds of Prey. Good Luck
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 15:05:22 -0500 Jennifer Mattrick Help! I'm new to this mailing list. I have a problem with house sparrows... What is a fast and easy way to dispose of house sparrows in the field (other than breaking their necks?) Has anyone experience with using ether other than with a paper bag? Thanks for your help.
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 21:28:24 -0800 Jennifer, I use zip loc bags some times. Maynard R Sumner
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 17:20:08 EST Maynard, I use a ziplock bag once I trap them in a box. Last year I threw the bag on the ground and shot at it with a BB gun. Just last night, I trapped a female and with much trepidation, shut my eyes and wolloped it on the porch post. And as I write and have a male out in the box now. He was peering out at me when I looked in. Guess he'll meet the same fate. Cindy, SE Penna. Member Bluebird Society of PA
Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 11:54:50 -0400 (EDT) This is a suggestion of one way to release sparrows and not cause other problems. We've all seen Hawks and Kestrels perched along road sides as we drive thru areas of undeveloped land. These can be country roads or highways that pass through country areas. The suggestion is to use a pair of sharp scissors and clip the wing feathers of the sparrow. As you drive by a Kesteral release the sparrow out the car window.. This may be a new way to feed the birds. Hawks notice any bird that can't fly well and will likely go after them. In any case they will most likely fall victim to some predator. If any one tries this let u know the results. Charter member NABS, Charter member OBS, Life member OBS Joe Huber http://community.webtv.net/hubertrap/HOUSESPARROWCONTROL
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 11:29:48 EDT ... Hi All, I have worked with Brown-headed Cowbird and House Sparrow "management programs" in the past and we would provide the local wildlife rehab. center with the bodies for the raptors in their care. It made the sad task of bird removal a little bit easier knowing that the bodies were being put to good use. Chris Otahal Check Out My Bird Banding and Migration Site:
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 15:48:30 -0400 Chris, You mentioned cowbird management. Does that mean that it is legal to dispose of them? I've heard mixed reports from friends and family. Someone told me that they are protected by federal law b/c they are song birds. Please post an answer to the list. I have a lot of them here. Patty/WV ...
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 21:26:52 -0500 Excellent description and instructions. The only change I have made is that I put a large rubber band around the front of the house (all around the top, sides, and bottom) and then tuck the plastic bag in under the rubber band on all sides. I have lost too many house sparrows by not having all openings covered!
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 10:47:57 -0700 Marsie Nufer I would add that, if it is possible, to stand behind the box. If you are standing in front the sparrow hits the clear plastic bag, sees the enemy and immediately tries to go the other way (i.e., where you are trying to close up the bag), often they can slip past your hand that way. The rubber band idea is a good one. I try to refrain from reaching in the bag at all; I don't want to risk loosing the bird. Also, before tossing the carcass in the trash consider composting it, or burying it, or donating it to a wildlife rehab center, rather than adding one more thing to the land fill. -Marsie
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 15:50:04 -0400 Used to bury mine but the skunks dug them all up. Now I give them to the crows. .... From: John Schuster [mailto:wildwingco"at"earthlink.net] Dear Friends, From: MPD [mailto:imajefarm"at"hotmail.com] Hi. I've trapped & "dispatched" 21 HOSP so far this spring. (By the way, only the first one is hard...) I was just tossing them out anywhere on my 10 acres till I realized I was teaching "higher order predators" to come here for a free meal of birdie meat, which is kinda counter-productive. Now I have a plastic tub with a lid, so I put the bodies in it, seal the lid so any fleas lice etc can't jump off into my car, and as I'm riding down the road I dump 'em somewhere in the ditch so the higher order predators can eat them THERE. The woods and fields are full of critters that appreciate HOSP. I could get rid of 10,082 HOSP if I could trap that many..... From: Fultons [mailto:thefultons"at"everestkc.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 12:15 PM Subject: Re: HOSP maintenance :( How would one go about finding if there are any Falconers in their area? Any suggestions? From: Bill Stump [mailto:bstump"at"bright.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 9:40 PM Subject: Re: HOSP maintenance :( Paula, How do you dispose of 82 HOSP? Bill From: Bet Zimmerman [mailto:ezdz"at"charter.net] The USDA told me the method they use for euthanizing large numbers of birds (e.g., for Newcastle disease) is carbon dioxide from bottled gas. NOT from dry ice, fire extinguishers, antacids or CO from car exhaust - those methods are generally not considered humane. (Humane being quick, effective and minimizing stress or suffering). http://www.sialis.org/hospdispatch.htm Bet from CT From: RBALTRUNAS"at"cs.com [mailto:RBALTRUNAS"at"cs.com] Hi fellow soldiers in the war against HOSP and EUST, This is in response to the many sad stories of HOSP attacks and people like myself who are about to start terminating HOSP. This is a summary of pros and cons that I have collected and thought over. 1. Guns: They are probably illegal to fire in any municipality. That must be checked first. You can injure a neighbor if you miss the bird and the projectile continues to fly. If you hit a bird and only injure it, you will be causing suffering. Guns pose other dangers like kids playing with them and hurting themselves or their friends. It also takes a good deal of time to practice marksmanship and again a place to do it legally. Target shooting could be fun. Then you have to wait with the gun for your enemies to show up. Shooting can have its place if you develop good marksmanship especially if you are involved with nestboxes in areas away from home and have the option of taking out HOSP all year round. 2. There are traps and they can be trapped at night in the box. Trapping is legal and safe, but it is emotionally involving. You have to grab the little monsters and the best I've heard-use a needle nose plier or thought of-use a wire cutter (almost the same) for a 3-10 second temination. The trapping can cause problems with neighbors if they see you doing it and don't understand. Not everyone will buy the idea of terminating HOSP even if it is explained. I have a blockheaded brother(60 miles away) who is breeding HOSP and EUST in spite of my forwarding many emails from this Bluebird-l and sending links like the Sialis.org shots. I have many well meaning people within about 5 blocks of me who have a number of little birdhouses infested with HOSP. That is why I am inching towards whacking them. They are breeding these bird rats and they may (will?) come someday and hurt my EABL. If these got wind of what I was doing to their little darlings who knows what might evolve between us. 3. Poisoning can kill the wrong birds and is painful. After the bird dies whatever eats it will probably be poisoned too so that is really not an option. I'm still brainstorming for the impossible dream: a way to whack HOSP impersonally. Maybe a feeder that would get them to put their heads in with a guillotine then you pull a rope or press a button and it cut their heads off or at least chokes them! This would have to be monitored and you would have to initiate it lest you harm native birds. Ron From: MPD [mailto:imajefarm"at"hotmail.com] Hi all; From: Kate Arnold [mailto:koscharn"at"cox.net] No way should this be done without actually viewing the bird you have trapped! Native species do investigate house sparrow nests at times. With an in-box trap I put a clear bag (drum liner) over the entire nestbox, release the bird into the bag and if it is a house sparrow I make sure he's at the end of the bag and smack bag and bird HARD against concrete or brick. It's over instantly, without touching the bird at all, and allows proper identification and release, if necessary. If neighbors see you with the bag, just walk around the back of the house where you aren't obvious. Kate Arnold From: RBALTRUNAS"at"cs.com [mailto:RBALTRUNAS"at"cs.com] In a Message dated 6/13/05 12:28:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time, lemerich"at"epix.net writes: I think it's frozen carbon dioxide. It is. Thanks for the comments. I didn't think handling it would be easy. I think I got burned by it once as a kid. Ron From: Mary Stine [mailto:mstine9"at"gmail.com] Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 5:38 PM Subject: Re: Issues involved in terminating HOSP Hi all, Thank You, From: Pischer, Trudy [mailto:Trudy.Pischer"at"BGTM.org] Be sure to check the trap before you dump it in dry ice or water as native cavity dwellers like bluebirds, chickadees, titmice, nuthatches, wrens etc., will investigate the traps. Last year, I trapped a chickadee and a bluebird in my trap, which can become “death traps” if you don’t check them at least every hour. Some traps I have seen have small “escape hatch holes” so the very small birds can get out, but even those would be too small for the bluebirds. I usually put the whole trap in a clear garbage bag, spring the door to release the bird in the garbage bag. If it’s a HOSP, I quickly twist the garbage bag down until the HOSP is pinned and use the needle nose pliers over the clear garbage bag. Trudy Pischer From: Bill Stump [mailto:bstump"at"bright.net] Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 9:58 PM Subject: Re: Issues involved in terminating HOSP For what it's worth.....I put the trapped HOSP in a clear plastic garbage bag (so I can verify it is indeed a HOSP), Squeeze the air out of the bag and stick it over the tailpipe of my truck to re-inflate. They "fall asleep" in a matter of minutes and it's basically painless. Bill From: lviolett [mailto:lviolett"at"earthlink.net] Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 1:24 AM Subject: Re: Issues involved in terminating HOSP There are a thousand and one ways to kill/trap House Sparrows. From: agitate [mailto:agitate"at"swbell.net] Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 9:42 A Subject: RE: Issues involved in terminating HOSP Thanks for the pep talk on neck wringing, I am one of the squeamish. May I Thank you, From: agitate [mailto:agitate"at"swbell.net] Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 9:44 AM Subject: RE: Issues involved in terminating HOSP Does this work with any model car, and do you just hold it up or do you have to get a tube? Also, how would one dispose of the bodies in suburbia? Just in the regular trash? Thanks all for this info, it's very helpful! Maureen From: Jean Carter Wilson [mailto:peanut123"at"comcast.net] I have a friend who raises finches and swears opening up a jar of FROM: Cher Layton Cher From: RBALTRUNAS"at"cs.com [mailto:RBALTRUNAS"at"cs.com] In a Message dated 6/21/05 12:50:14 PM Pacific Daylight Time, peanut123"at"comcast.net writes: I have a friend who raises finches and swears opening up a jar of I think if both were in an airtight container it might work, but out in open air it could kill the bird very slowly if at all. Maybe paint thinner in a sponge put into a house with a trapped bird would kill it there, but I wonder if the thinner will leave a harmful residue. Ron Anyone else ever used paint thinner? From: Bill Stump [mailto:bstump"at"bright.net] I haven't used paint thinner before but I have used the exhaust fumes Bill From: George Smith [mailto:glsnj"at"yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 6:32 AM Subject: Re: st1 sparrow trap by Nature house+paint thinner Ron, Just my 2cents. From: mrtony8 [mailto:philip.berry"at"mchsi.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 8:05 AM Subject: Re: st1 sparrow trap by Nature house+paint thinner your local rehabber will be delighted to take HOSP for food. all mine go to From: RBALTRUNAS"at"cs.com [mailto:RBALTRUNAS"at"cs.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 8:29 AM Subject: Re: st1 sparrow trap by Nature house+paint thinner Hi I doubt that a tiny residue will harm a bird who intrudes and is caught for less than an hour. Ideally, though it would be better not to have them nest for weeks in it. In fact, I think I might figure out an alarm system to ring or buzz in my house or just drop a flag outside when the trap goes off. This will reduce the stress on the "good" bird or the HOSP. Hmmm. Maybe I will invent and market such devices. Giving live or dead HOSP to bird rehabbers is a great idea if you have one that has hawks and it is nearby. I would not drive 20 miles for disposal of one HOSP or even a few. I consider all driving to be pollution and global warming so I limit as much as possible. Ron From: RBALTRUNAS"at"cs.com [mailto:RBALTRUNAS"at"cs.com] In a Message dated 6/21/05 7:27:48 PM Pacific Daylight Time, bstump"at"bright.net writes: The carbon monoxide just puts them to "sleep" in a I want a matter of seconds. Maybe just grabbing the bird and choking or snappng its neck or maybe cracking its head with a pair of pliers (like cracking a walnut) is the fastest for them, but I will ;have to getover the trauma of doing it the first few times. We have to "see" future EABL, and other declining birds in our hearts as we eliminate a tiny fraction of the HOSP and EUST plague. jRon From: Keith & Sandy Kridler [mailto:txbluebirder"at"sbcglobal.net] Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 8:51 AM Subject: Re: st1 sparrow trap by Nature house/inhumane killing:-(( Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas My mother caught 1,260 some house sparrows in 1985 when she moved from our farm 6 miles out of the city limits to in town one mile from the court house. She used two of the ST-1 traps and in four years she trapped a total of just over 2,400 house sparrows with these same two traps. Cats, dogs, coons, skunks, possums and red tailed hawks rolled these two traps around to get a free meal and twenty years later they are still in fine working order. Actually one of the traps is now over thirty years as she bought it in 1970 or so. It came with a copy of the PURPLE MARTIN NEWS and the bluebird column by Larry Zeleny inspired me to begin checking and monitoring the nestboxes I had been building and installing since 1964. I do believe that the repeating traps are better at catching birds but they require more adjusting and care over a 20 year period:-)) When she trapped more English Sparrows than the middle cage would hold she attached a snap hook to the trap and dropped it off the end of her fishing dock. Then she retrieved the trap and fed the victims to the huge catfish milling around like sharks in her pond. The old styles of wooden repeating traps swelled up and got out of adjustment when dropped in the pond and you had to add a brick to sink some of them. When you have multiple birds in the trap it is HARD to remove just one or two without losing some in ANY style cage trap. ALL bait type traps capture good songbirds that need to be released! ALL bait traps must be used with food and water in the holding cage AND you need to monitor often! The United States Department of Agriculture has printed SEVEN different booklets on controlling English Sparrows and then later the new name House Sparrow for the same old bird. Starting in the 1890's they realized this bird needed to be eradicated. The House Sparrow and European Starling are known carriers of infectious diseases and have been proved to carry disease from one mink ranch to another. One hog farm, chicken farm, dairy farm (you get the idea) to another. (Starlings are actually worse because they migrate across the country carrying disease and House Sparrows roam a region that includes a communal roosting area, a series of different feeding areas and then an area with sufficient nesting sites from open trees or bushes to suitable gaps in buildings to nestboxes.) As USUAL when a government tries to do something they have the opposite I am sorry but there is no method of killing that is "humane" 100% of the time. Very few creatures living in the "wild" will experience what lawyers would agree was a "humane" death. Just make it quick and don't share the gory details with the list like I just did! KK From: Bet Zimmerman [mailto:ezdz"at"charter.net] Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 10:46 PM Subject: HOSP euthanasia I know some folks are tired of or distressed by the topic of what to do with house sparrows (HOSP) that have been trapped in order to protect native cavity nesting birds. It is a VERY difficult issue for many bluebirders. I respect each persons' right to make their own (legal of course) choices on how to deal with house sparrows. There are a number of passive control options available, such as wing trimming and sparrow spookers. Nest removal and rendering eggs infertile/replacing/destroying eggs (which I consider active control measures) are also options. IF people choose to euthanize house sparrows, I think it's important to realize that some commonly used methods of dispatching house sparrows are NOT considered humane by some or many groups. I did a bit of research on this topic, talking with the Audubon Society (CT chapter), local wildlife rehabbers specializing in birds, a local animal control officer, a wildlife biologist, the USDA, USFWS, CT Dept. of Environmental Protection Wildlife Division, American Veterinary Medical Association (AVMA), Dept. of Agriculture, the Humane Society of the US (not affiliated with any shelters - more akin to PETA), American College of Zoological Medicine, and the National Wildlife Rehabilitators Association. I learned that methods that may not be considered humane - usually because they take too long or because cause unnecessary suffering - include, but are not limited to: Note that some methods may also require a permit even when conducted on private property by the property owner. For example, in CT, there is a special law that requires a permit before using a chemical such as ether to euthanize an animal. I have heard of people relocating HOSP and starlings to cities, but in MA a permit is required to relocate any wildlife. I found that while the groups I checked with are NOT in agreement on this issue, most accept euthanasia methods endorsed by the AVMA as being humane. Many of these options (e.g., barbiturates, lethal injection) are not viable alternatives for individuals. However, AVMA does endorse the use of CO2 cartridges, cervical dislocation (neck wringing) and gunshot for birds. When the USDA has to euthanize large numbers of birds (e.g., for Newcastle disease) they have used CO2. CO2 is heavier than air and acts as an anesthetic. Birds have a very high requirement for oxygen and expire quickly when it is not available. CO2 is inexpensive and not flammable or explosive. I am NOT recommending, promoting or advocating that people dispatch house sparrows. However, I do believe that anyone euthanizing HOSP should choose the most humane, quick, effective (reliable) method that is available, safe, and acceptable to them. "Humane" is a somewhat subjective term, and not all states have specific laws defining it. In general, handling of the bird and the euthanasia method must consistently cause rapid unconsciousness and death, while minimizing pain and stress and discomfort. If you have any doubt about the legality of any approaches, you should consult with your local, state wildlife/animal control, or federal agencies to ensure that no laws or regulations regarding wildlife or animal cruelty and abuse are violated. More information on this complex and difficult topic can be found at http://www.sialis.org/hospdispatch.htm Sorry for the length of this post. As always, I am open to suggestions about how information on the sialis.org website can be improved/corrected/made more useful. Bet from CT From: Paul Kilduff [mailto:pkilduff"at"usconnex.net] I use the exhaust gas method but I do not like it -- for me they do not go to sleep but struggle frantically until overcome -- it's a fairly violent process but that's what I use because I don't have the . . . courage or whatever you call it . . . to kill them with my hands. I would like to find a source of pure CO in a pressure container. I think "chest" compression is probably the quickest.... From a larger perspective, I think a box which has HOSP infestation every year should be removed/relocated. Others will surely disagree, but I think putting up nestboxes in House Sparrow territory invites bluebirds and Tree Swallows to nest in a place where they will be subject to unreasonable danger. Even people who monitor backyard boxes every day are often unable to prevent HOSP destruction. This industry of trying to empty the ocean with a thimble, this industry which has grown up around trying to create HOSP-free zones by mass trapping and killing, seems wrong-headed to me, and unfair to bluebirds et al. If everyone followed this philosophy we would lose a lot of nestboxes. We would also prevent a lot of HOSP attacks. Are we sacrificing bluebirds to our own desire to have bluebirds nesting in our backyards? Paul Kilduff, Baltimore MD From: Keith & Sandy Kridler [mailto:txbluebirder"at"sbcglobal.net] Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas From: RBALTRUNAS"at"cs.com [mailto:RBALTRUNAS"at"cs.com] Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 8:32 AM Subject: Re: Nnestboxes in HOSP territory - WAS: st1 sparrow trap +paint thinner In a Message dated 6/23/05 4:01:39 AM Pacific Daylight Time, pkilduff"at"usconnex.net writes: This industry of trying to empty the ocean with a thimble, this industry which has grown up around trying to create HOSP-free zones by mass trapping and killing, seems wrong-headed to me, and unfair to bluebirds et al. Then maybe we should write off all of North America as lost territory. Ron From: Paul Kilduff [mailto:pkilduff"at"usconnex.net] KK: Maybe this is a hole in my knowledge -- Bet talked about USDA using CO2 -- but I've understood that CO2 is not poisonous -- only CO is poisonous, yes? Is CO2 humane? I guess it is... Paul Kilduff From: Bruce Burdett [mailto:blueburd"at"verizon.net] Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 11:17 AM Subject: Re: Youth in Asia Bet, et al, Bruce Burdett, SW NH From: SCooke [mailto:ncw001"at"nc.rr.com] Here is an idea that I have used on squirrels as was recommended to me by my vet. He assures me that it is most humane. Take the trapped animal while still in the trap and place it in a container into which you have placed some dry ice. (I used an extra large Rubbermaid container that is about the size and shape of a large trunk.) Cover and within a couple of minutes you have sent the offender on his way to parts unknown. Fortunately, I have not yet had HOSP in my backyard bird sanctuary but I intend to use this method if and when they show up. Has anyone else ever tried anything like this? Sharon From: RBALTRUNAS"at"cs.com [mailto:RBALTRUNAS"at"cs.com] That's an idea. If you use an in birdhouse trap, just drop some dry ice into the house and keep the entrance blocked and air holes blocked. In fact, you could quietly sneak up to the occupied house at night throw dry ice in and block the hole. I wonder how fast it kills. Also I don't know where to get dry ice or how to store it. The advantages are neighbors won't notice much. There is little contact emotionally or physically and little work . There is no removing live birds. easy. thanks for the idea Ron From: G McCall [mailto:gmccall"at"rochester.rr.com] Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 2:50 PM Subject: Re: Issues involved in terminating HOSP Or dunk the nest box with trapped HOSP into a bucket of water, it only takes seconds. This is more humane than pecking their eyes out like they do to our Bluebird friends. As always, check and double check to make sure what kind of bird is in the box before taking action. Gordon From: Lynn Emerich [mailto:lemerich"at"epix.net] Be careful when working with dry ice. As it evaporates, it removes the oxygen from the air the the bird soffocates. If you touch it with your bard hands, it can freeze the skin in seconds and give you a nice burn. You couldn't store it in your home freezer as it isn't cold enough. It would actually thaw at normal freezer temperatures. During long power outages, it will keep the freezer or fridge temp cold enough to keep food cold/cool, but will eventually disappear. I think it's frozen carbon dioxide. Lynn near Bernville PA. From: agitate [mailto:agitate"at"swbell.net] Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 10:05 AM Subject: RE: Issues involved in terminating HOSP I personally am glad to see this thread, it's already answered many of my questions. Please understand that I am not trying to be combative or antagonistic towards you or anyone else. There may be a thousand ways but I have never done any and want to know what I am doing first. I want to kill them, not torture them to death, and I have specific questions. On any list you are going to have repeated topics. I am always deleting Messages I'm not interested in, that's life on a list in my experience. If I am wrong and missed something in the rules, please let me know. Once again, no hard feelings intended, really. Maureen From: mrtony8 [mailto:philip.berry"at"mchsi.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 11:38 AM Subject: Re: Issues involved in terminating HOSP I usually try to avoid this topic, but feel I must answer. From: Maynard Sumner [mailto:m-r-sumner"at"juno.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 4:18 P Subject: RE: Issues involved in terminating HOSP HOSP make good food for rose bushes. Maynard Sumner From: lviolett [mailto:lviolett"at"earthlink.net] Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 1:21 AM Subject: Re: Issues involved in terminating HOSP Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. There *are* alternatives to trapping/killing. Following is a note I received May 25th from a high school instructor regarding a HOSP/WEBL battle. Permission to copy to the List was requested and granted. (I helped him change out standard boxes on his campus last year to 2-holers. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Linda, From: RBALTRUNAS"at"cs.com [mailto:RBALTRUNAS"at"cs.com] ...From what I have learned on the Bluebird-l and web sites like Sialis.org, the Mass Bluebird Society and NABS is that not all HOSP are psyhopathic killers and destroyers. But they all infest and it seems the risk of a psycho case showing up is always there. I have a backyard situation with 4 EABL sized boxes. One has been miraculously occupied by a pair of EABL and is into its 2nd brood. The other 3 have had HOSP nests which I have dumped, switched beads for eggs and switched dead eggs for live. Maybe these 3 boxes have diverted the HOSP away from my EABL. Maybe the nest dumping and manipulation drew fire away from my EABL. Maybe. Then maybe I'm just lucky and so is your example. It may be a question of odds maybe the odds of genetically violent HOSP are one in 10 or one in 5. You can get a away with a lot with those odds in your favor. But a lot of destruction is going to happen too. I find it hard to live with that threat. One thing sticks out. Your friend's WEBL have nested safely outside his window. My safe nest is also outside my window about 30 feet, a dream situation for observation. I wonder if that coincidence has something to be learned. Anyone else have BB boxes outside their window and not bothered much by HOSP? Ron From: Paula [mailto:PaulaZ"at"columbus.rr.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 11:25 AM Subject: O/T Dry Ice This is just a little safety reminder for any listers wishing to purchase dry ice for whatever reason. Dry ice sublimates (from solid directly to gas) quickly. If you do transport the stuff, use a proper container - cheap styrofoam cooler is fine. Don't handle it with your bare hands. Very important - transport in your trunk. If you do transport for any distance or have to set it in vehicle with you, keep your window open. I don't want to read about any of my beloved bluebird listers ending up like Cary's squirrel :) Paula Z From: RBALTRUNAS"at"cs.com [mailto:RBALTRUNAS"at"cs.com] From: Eveyln Cooper I think we have failed to alert the "new people" on the List that we usually put a :<( in the subject line at the end when it is talking about killing HOSP. People that use passive control do not want to read about it. Try that and see it if helps everyone. Linda uses passive control. Haleya was always our reminder and we miss her. No, this List is not "new topics" only. It just seems we get stuck on the same thing day after day and fail to tell the "new people/newbies" that the Archives are there with a wealth of information. You can stumble across something you didn't even think about. :<) Keep asking questions, but read the Archives too!!! Evelyn From: Autumn L. Kruer [mailto:autumnk"at"iglou.com] Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 12:58 AM Subject: RE: Issues involved in terminating HOSP A very nice exception to the norm. Yes, once in a blue moon the bluebirds Autumn in Kentucky [see remainder of thread under passive control part 9] From: Bruce Burdett [mailto:blueburd"at"verizon.net] Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 5:31 PM Subject: Elimination, etc. People's attitudes about killing various things are fascinating. Some people simply follow the biblical injunction: " Thou shalt not kill." Some people are more selective, and only kill things which they find Some people refuse even to terminate House Sparrows, though they kill Some people refuse to kill things themselves, but routinely hire other Some people enjoy hunting and fishing, and kill things for sport. Some people, including some very decent, humane ones, kill other human Some people kill out of pure hatred, witness lynchings, Some people kill for religious reasons, - the Crusades, the Inquisition, the A next-door neighbor of mine, a very gentle, kindly lady Some people favor capital punishment, some do not. A colleague of mine once asked me to "put away" his aged, terminally ill - so it goes........ I guess everyone must decide for himself the lengths Bruce Burdett From: Bruce Burdett [mailto:blueburd"at"verizon.net] Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 8:17 AM Subject: Elimination (2) - and additionally: Some people kill for commercial reasons, to provide meat for the nation's tables. Some people kill for medical reasons, to find out how certain procedures and medicines work on white rats, rabbits, even dogs and cats. Some people kill furbearing animals so that people can adorn themselves. Some people kill certain wild animals in the belief that their body parts have mystical properties involving virility, beauty, hunting skill, longevity, etc. Bruce Burdett, SW NH From: agitate [mailto:agitate"at"swbell.net] Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 11:45 AM Subject: RE: Elimination (2) Interesting list of reasons, knowing human beings, it could get a whole lot longer. It would be nice if we could cause the elimination of house sparrows and starlings from the north american continent, and replenish hosp in their native land, where I understand they are in trouble. All this HOSP trouble is due to man's mis-management. Thank God for we have learned more about wildlife management, so we can help the bluebird and our other native species. I'll admit I have had some misgivings about killing HOSP & EUST. Like most people here I will not "enjoy" the killing, even though their behavior makes me very angry. However, I am going to do it because of the destruction they reap. I understand at one time Bluebirds were much more common. Growing up in a city, I have never seen a live bluebird, but countless HOSP and EUST. I hope one day I get to see a bluebird nesting in my backyard, even if I don't live in the country. Maureen From: Bet Zimmerman [mailto:ezdz"at"charter.net] Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 10:13 AM Subject: Relocating trapped HOSP and other choices :-( We are stepping into some difficult territory when we discuss what to do with a trapped house I would like to refer folks to the Bluebird_L archives, but there are almost 50 pages on HOSP, which When we discuss this topic, I do think we need to be sensitive to the wide variety of philosophies Anyway, in my (current) opinion, relocating a HOSP simply relocates the problem. As some folks on Some people relocate HOSP and starlings to cities, where they and pigeons have virtually driven out Two other alternatives are wing trimming (which makes the HOSP unable to fly), and donating trapped Another option is euthanasia. House sparrows are a non-native species considered a serious pest, and Based on past experiences on this list, I understand that Cornell requests that WE DO NOT DISCUSS If you have questions on this topic, people who trap (like me) are usually willing to respond Bet from CT From: Steve Murphy Home [mailto:thcri"at"qwest.net] Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 6:34 PM Subject: No Catch and Release Since we can not trap the sparrows and release them twenty miles away for Thanks From: Cher [mailto:bluelist"at"localnet.com] Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 7:18 PM Subject: Re: No Catch and Release Steve, Those that reply to you with specific suggestions will have to do so http://www.sialis.org/hospdispatch.htm Cher From: Cher [mailto:bluelist"at"localnet.com] Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 9:04 AM Subject: Re: Catching Sparrows Steve, The NABS flyer about House Sparrow Control, referring to repeating traps, such as the Deluxe Repeating Sparrow Trap that you ordered, says: "Used continuously once the population is under control, its effectiveness, though varied throughout the course of the year, is usually consistent. ***These traps are especially effective during the winter***, and when juvenile birds are abundant in mid summer." As for the question of what to do with the sparrows once caught -- that is a very hotly debated topic. I can tell you that relocation is a very short-term solution to a 100-year-old problem. It *may* eliminate the sparrows from your own yard (that is, if they don't beat you home - and a male that has bonded to a nestbox will almost certainly do so!); however it only perpetuates the problem somewhere else, and wherever you let them go, they will harass the Bluebirds there, too. Some people have taken to relocating them in cities, where there are few or no Bluebirds or native songbirds. But there area drawbacks to this also - not only do they spread their disease-ridden droppings in urban areas, but as the sparrow populations in the cities increase, the birds on the fringes move further out, right back to - you guessed it - your yard! Also, a sparrow once caught in a trap is a trap-savvy sparrow, and you or anyone else will have trouble catching them a second time. So relocation is at best an imperfect solution. That being said, there are folks who have difficulty with the idea of euthanizing the sparrows they catch. Either they have trouble with the idea in principal, or, while having no qualms about having these birds euthanized, they don't have the stomach to do the deed themselves. It's not an easy question. But most people can relate to the need for pest control. If you found a cockroach in your house, would you carry it carefully out to your neighbor's porch and let it go? Most people probably wouldn't. (depending on your neighbors) [:-) And a cockroach won't even kill anything! What about a mouse, or a rat? Some people won't even harm these creatures; they will have the most trouble deciding what to do with caught sparrows. If, on the other hand, you would have no difficulty calling in a Pest Control expert to eliminate squirrels nesting in your attic, or moles invading your lawn, but you just can't bear to make them *go away* yourself, then maybe you can find someone who would be willing to help you. Farmers are good for that - they recognize the need for controlling Whatever you decide to do with the sparrows, just make sure it is humane. Don't let the neighbor's kids torment them to death or hang them from the tree branches to scare away other sparrows. We're not even supposed to discuss specific "termination" methods on this List, because we don't want to offend the sensibilities of any of the subscribers. I dream of the day that someone will come up with the perfect solution to sparrow control that won't require us to kill anything. Until that day comes, we just have to do the best we can. From: John Curran [mailto:webjc"at"yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 12:42 PM Subject: Re: Catching Sparrows Well that solution would be to somehow make the sparrow infertile once caught. Castrate the sparrows? John Curran From: rebel1956"at"comcast.net [mailto:rebel1956"at"comcast.net] Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 6:01 PM Subject: Re: Catching Sparrows Hi all, Bird reproductive organs are hidden internally and shrink 90% when it isn't the breeding season (to save weight and energy for migration) so castration isn't a viable option. ...If it were only so simple. Rob Barron From: Bet Zimmerman [mailto:ezdz"at"charter.net] Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 4:55 PM Subject: catching and releasing HOSP Many folks would say that trapping and releasing house sparrows elsewhere is equivalent to catching The other issue associated with releasing them elsewhere is disease, especially with the concerns One songbird rehabber I heard of brings them into the city, as she figures starlings, pigeons and Anyway, with regard to your question, I have not seen data (would be interested in it!) on whether Although they are widely distributed as a species, adults generally remain within 2 to 6 km (1.24 - Bet from CT PS Other problems associated with HOSP include: House Sparrows cause other damage: to crops (esp. grain) and gardens (eating seed, seedlings, buds, Active and passive house sparrow management, including trapping: http://www.sialis.org/hosp.htm From: Keith & Sandy Kridler [mailto:txbluebirder"at"sbcglobal.net] Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 12:04 PM Subject: Re: nestbox location and birdfeeders .... For years I returned from the bluebird trail and put House Sparrows on a stump in our backyard for a pair of Red Tailed hawks. The female could eat eight of them at a time. I also would bring back squirrel or rabbit road kills until Sandy got a call from a lady who was all hysterical thinking I was bringing back road kill for my family to eat.....It is bad to be known in your community.....and do crazy things like that. Keith Kridler From: Jim and Pat Dougherty [mailto:jpdougherty"at"juno.com] There is a lot of talk of catching and "disposing" of the HOSP. But Pat From: Cher [mailto:bluelist"at"localnet.com] Pat, the details of "disposal" methods are not allowed on the List, which is why you never see the details posted. However, the emphasis is on humane disposal. The Sialis website has a section devoted to this subject, and some folks may e-mail you off-list to give specific suggestions on what works for them. Just make sure that whatever method you choose is quick and humane for the birds, not just expedient and hands-off for you. Some folks make the mistake of assuming that if it isn't too distasteful for them, then it must be quick and humane for the birds, and that isn't necessarily the case. http://www.sialis.org/hospdispatch.htm Cher From: Bruce Burdett [mailto:blueburd"at"verizon.net] "Disposing," as it turns out, is a very sensitive subject for some folks, and I sense that BLUEBIRD-L does not like to have us talk about it. Let me just say that I have no more trouble "disposing" of a House Sparrow than I have slapping a mosquito or swatting a fly. A pest is a pest is a pest. Bruce Burdett SW NH From: denisefarmer"at"comcast.net [mailto:denisefarmer"at"comcast.net]
Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 3:26 PM Subject: RE: My 2nd year of birding so far... The spooker should not go on the box until at least one egg is laid and if you use to too much/too quick the HOSP will get used to it. I would take it down and keep trapping.
What do you do with the HOSP after clipping their flight wings? Just curious
Denise Farmer
Parkville, MD From: bridget mcgann [mailto:lilbmcg"at"gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 3:25 PM Subject: Re: My 2nd year of birding so far... <<What do you do with the HOSP after clipping their flight wings? Just curious>> From: Bob Walshaw [mailto:walshaw1"at"cox.net]
Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 11:06 PM Subject: Re: My 2nd year of birding so far... Keith Kridler has also mentioned clipping house sparrow wings so they can't fly and are easy prey for predators. It is a personal decision. I demonstrate a quick humane killing method, one for men and one for women that they are more comfortable with. Bluebird Bob.
From: bridget mcgann [mailto:lilbmcg"at"gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 12:20 AM Subject: Re: My 2nd year of birding so far... OK now I am curious, what are your "men" and "women" killing methods? One of the reasons I chose to clip wings was that I could not find a method that seemed humane to me but not gory (such as decapitation!) From: Bob Walshaw [mailto:walshaw1"at"cox.net]
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 6:50 PM Subject: Re: My 2nd year of birding so far... Men are comfortable with a number of direct methods involving either crushing the house sparrow in the bag, taking it out and squeezing it, crushing its head against a post, etc. All insuring a quick and humane death. The method that I find that the women I work with prefer is to whack the bag containing the house sparrow hard against a solid object such as a post or a tree. This also kills the house sparrow humanely, and it can be shaken out of the bag without having to be touched. Bluebird Bob. From: xxxxxx Wow! From: bridget mcgann [mailto:lilbmcg"at"gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 11:38 PM Subject: Re: My 2nd year of birding so far... <<Wow! From: Bob Walshaw [mailto:walshaw1"at"cox.net] It is a personal thing. However I would rather die instantly than slowly suffocate as the oxygen is used up in a container. Bluebird Bob. From: Bob Walshaw [mailto:walshaw1"at"cox.net]
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 11:56 PM Subject: Re: My 2nd year of birding so far... No matter how we eliminate them in many areas there is no choice if we are to make an environment reasonably safe for Bluebirds and other small cavity nesters. The one Bluebird that I have lost so far was decapitated and left on top of 6 eggs. Imagine how much more of that would have happened if I had not not trapped those 47 house sparrows so far this year. Bluebird Bob.
From: Bruce Burdett [mailto:blueburd"at"verizon.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 7:26 AM Subject: Re: My 2nd year of birding so far... Duane, "I gave him the lead gift in the twilight." I don't have any traps, but I do have a good pellet gun. No bags, no crushing, no whacking, etc. It's instantaneous (and I don't think we'll ever really know whether these birds know pain or not. I think it's wrong to assume that they do just because we do. Bruce Burdett SW NH
We try to refrain from describing on list how we dispose of House Sparrows. I was riding around on a bluebird trail with a lady who told me repeatedly that she just could not kill a House Sparrow. It was not five minutes later we stopped at a nestbox and when she opened the nestbox she grabbed a male House Sparrow that was sitting in the box with his eggs. Out of her back pocket she pulled out a small paper bag, pushed the male House Sparrow down in the bag and rolled it up VERY tightly. She then cleaned out the old sparrow nest and eggs and placed them in a plastic trash bag in the trunk of her car, closed the nestbox and we got ready to leave. Instead of hauling off the sparrow to release it she bent down and pushed the paper bag with the House Sparrow in it squarely under the back tire of her car. As we drove off quickly she said that she had just given that sparrow a chance to escape and if not then the sparrow and the paper bag were biodegradable. It was quick and she did not know for certain that her ACTIONS killed the sparrow. ZZZ From: Bet Zimmerman [mailto:ezdz "at"charter.net] I believe Keith was trimming the wings as he was working with the birds on the hole size tests. Not everyone is comfortable with euthanasia. It is probably one of the most controversial things about bluebirding. Wing trimming offers an alternative. I believe it is better than no action. Fawzi Emad, whom I have a great deal of respect for, has used it successfully and found that trimmed birds became docile and did not mate for at least one season. He also found it effectively reduced the local HOSP population. The feathers do regrow, but he indicated it takes about 6 mos. More info here: http://www.sialis.org/wingtrim.htm Bet from CT From: Bob Walshaw [mailto:walshaw1 "at"cox.net]
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 10:59 PM Subject: Wing trimmed house sparrows I know that this is a very controversial subject, but the facts are pretty clear. Releasing a house sparrow even if wing clipping takes it out of action for 6 months is just releasing a serial killer. Would anyone agree to releasing a human serial killer in their neighborhood after only six months of incarceration? Bluebird Bob.
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