Problems with house sparrows on the bluebird trail (Part 1)

Active Control (Traps, Guns, Hooks, Oil, Pricking, Egg Removal, etc.)

Also see other HOSP information under Passive Control, Philosophy, Lime, General, Disposal, etc.

In addition to Messages that have appeared in the Bluebird Mailing Lists on this topic, the following are on the Audubon Society of Omaha website: 

• Minimum diameter for House Sparrow entry by Frank Navratil
• House Sparrows by Steve Eno
• The Active and Passive Bluebirders by Bluebird Bob Walshaw and Jim McLochlin

I have read with great interest the postings about sparrows. I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts about the egg removal and piercing I have done at school. I think I read about it in one of the BAN publications. Does this ring a bell anyone? Perhaps someone with a website could repost the article.

Take care.
Nancy Bocian
Newtown, CT

To Gary Springer springer"at"altel.net

Gary;

Catching the male sparrow ends the problem at the nest which is all most people want at that time. If only the female is caught then the male simply stays and guards the box until another female is called in. They can tie up a box for 2 months if only the female is caught. Personally I almost always went for both male & female when trapping in the box. That is the ideal situation and it brings a sudden silence to the area since all chirping stops. Here is an example of what has taken place with proper trapping methods; I had 2 stops at golf course boxes. At each stop there were 2 boxes in that area. These 4 boxes had sparrows in the area the previous week so as I approached these boxes I looked for any signs of bluebirds or sparrows. This in the AM about 8:30 It appeared that a sparrow nest was in the box so as I quietly approached a glove was stuffed in the entrance. These were top opening boxes so the top was slid aside as I reached inside. Felt a bird which was removed. When checking these 4 boxes 4 sparrows were caught by hand. 3 males and 1 female. My built in trap was set and then I continued on to the other 2 boxes. Within 20 min. I had caught 8 sparrows from these 4 boxes. Following week found 2 bluebird nests 1 tree swallow nest. For those out there that have bluebirds in your yard consider adding one of the bait traps An elevator type trap is first choice ( copy of havahart ) These keep decoy sparrows alive longer. The ST-1 works but doesn't keep decoys alive long. Decoys are the secret of bait traps. If something wasn't covered let me know
Best wishes.

Charter member NABS, Charter member OBS, Life member OBS Joe Huber
hubertrap"at"webtv.net

Hi, Marion, Sorry you are having so many losses to the sparrows. That huber tuttle trap is the same idea as mine. Believe they just needed a name to use to sell it. When ever a sparrow nest is so high that it touches the trip rod of the in box trap just tear away enough nesting material to allow the rod to work. It only has to go down about a quarter inch to pull out from under the steel plate. Was you able to find a havahart copy? Thats what you need now. Catch one in your nest boxes and place it in the automatic elevator trap as a decoy. Then let the decoy keep your boxes free of sparrows. Its easier. I'm sure you know that but other people reading this may catch on to an easier way. I have a couple of those plywood traps to slip in boxes if you need one.

Charter member NABS, Charter member OBS, Life member OBS Joe Huber
hubertrap"at"webtv.net

Ted makes a good point about sparrow control. Where we have a grouping of 4-5 nestboxes on our trails and, in that situation, where a sparrow makes a strident claim for one of them and repeatedly builds nests after having them torn out by us time after time....guess what? I let him "have" the box...let him build his filthy nest and heap it up with Foxtail to his heart's content and bring in one floozy after another to "get it on" with. And I keep taking out the eggs/nestlings (if I don't get back in time)...but I don't destroy the nest...that's his nest....and he'll continue to be "fixed on it" as long as he thinks it's his and, chances are, he won't trouble any others nesting nearby. I can't begin to tell all of you how many times I've used this decoy technique over 18 years on the trail. IT WORKS!!!! and no matter what kinds of boxes are nearby, you've got a real good prospect for bluebirds if they are in your area. One catch: YOU have to be the vigilant trail manager if YOU want this to happen. YOU have to start thinking like a HOSP...smile...Dean

Joan Davis
Dayton, Ohio

I'll sing once more about Bolt's Sparrow Trap. I have repeatedly endorsed this trap on this forum. It's mechanics are based on Joe Huber's invention, that is, when the bird steps a bent wire, it throws a slot of metal over the entrance hole. Mel Bolt goes one step further, and builds a wire cage that the bird is trapped in. If you catch a native cavity nester there is twist tie on the floor to release him. The humane thing to do with male house sparrow is drown him in a bucket of water while he is caged.

Mel Bolt makes traps to fit a round hole, an oval hole, and slot box model. He sells them out of his home, at festivals or shows. Write snail mail to this address:
Mel Bolt
1571 Oil City Rd.
Wooster, OH 44691-4009

OBS CHARTER & LIFE MEMBER, NABS MEMBER, & OBS BLUE FEATHER

Dear all I am posting these non-lethal "sparrow repellent" ideas under this heading because they have been used in the past with success in SOME areas or by just a couple of people. They are in no particular order and will be just as they come to a slow mind this morning. These are for people who CANNOT trap and kill sparrows. Yes please do not trap and release somewhere else because they get trap "smart" making it harder for those of use who wish to "remove" them.

I live trap and trim at least 4 primary flight feathers on each wing. They can still fly and find food and water but never return to nest that season. If you only trim the female I have found that the male will sometimes guard and protect the female during the nesting season.

Using a fake snake and leaving about a foot of the head and body out of their entrance hole works for a while. It is best to use a fishing pole and line tied to the snake if you have time and give it a little twitch when the sparrows first discover it! Large black plastic fishing worms also sometimes work.

If you can find small snakes they can be placed in a refrigerator until quite cool and THEN place the live snake in the nest. As they thaw out they really do scare/eat the contents when they get active again.

Ribbons, streamers ETC. tied over the top of the box (three foot tall mini flag pole) so that they blow back and forth with the wind whipping past the entrance hole and box top have worked for some people. (The sparrows used the surveyors tape in the nests for my small test of this method.)

To repel sparrows from feeders someone came up with the idea of using monofilament line tied to the roof edge and hanging down past the large covered shelf with lead fishing sinkers tied to the bottom of the line thus leaving a monofilament cage around the feeder. It seems the sparrows would fly directly into line protecting the the shelf and become frightened while native birds would land on the perch and then hop through the loose bars. You might try this on the front of the nestbox, leaving an inch or two between bars. (I worry about using this for fear of cutting the wings of native birds.)

I tried using leftover Christmas tinsel stapled to the box overhang and they just added it to their nest.

Harry Krueger was a true artist with a paint brush. he had a severe problem along his trail with a single barn having dozens of nesting sparrows every year. He tried hawk silhouettes, owl decoys and then he painted a beautiful kestrel male with a movable wing, installed a random timed battery operated motor in the back of his "kestrel". He perched it on a rail in the barn & it would flap and make a loud click at different times during the day. This only worked for a couple of weeks. We installed about 6 trap boxes in and around the barn one spring and he wiped out the colony in a matter of weeks and he never had a problem there again.

I need to go to work I wish others would add to this list & it would be helpful to add a short note to the end if you have used it or just heard it. We have already pretty well covered our thoughts on to kill or not to kill a couple of weeks ago so I don't want to start that up again but give some alternate ways that may or not work for everyone. "poet's corner" I think is appropriate for these thoughts!
Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas

You have my sympathy.  I believe the birds that are using your blue bird house are actually (house sparrows).  I realize that the identification doesn't help keep the birds away.  Most of us have struggled with the house sparrow problem for years and there are several things you can do.  The easiest way for me to deal with the sparrows is to put up a second house for the EABL and allow the pair of sparrows to have a house.  After the sparrow starts incubating, I remove all the sparrow eggs, boil them on my portable stove a few minutes, cool them, mark them for my future monitoring and replace them in the nest.  This has worked quite well for me this year as the sparrows incubated those dead eggs for the whole six week period that it took for the EABL to nest.  In previous years I destroyed sparrow eggs and babies and nests but found that when I did that, the male sparrow then attacked my EABLs.  I also have placed traps inside the house and then removed the female, placed her in a cage trap on the ground and enticed the male into the cage trap.  We have discussed the HOSP all spring and summer on this list.  Whatever you do, please kill any sparrows that you catch and do not release them in some distant location.
 
Merlin Wright at Nemaha county NE  40*30'N, 95*45'W

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Nesbitt [mailto:pauln"at"getaway.net]
Sent: Thursday, July 08, 1999 10:31 AM
To: BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: trash birds

I live in a heavily populated are but I do occasionally see blue birds.  I set up a Petersen blue bird house but I can't keep the field sparrows out of it.  They keep trying until they find a way to get in the house.  Does anyone have any suggestions.  This is my first try at attracting blue birds.  Thanks.

Paul

Kevin Putman, Yuba City, CA

I recently had a problem with House sparrows taking over a nestbox; the HOSPs ruined an active bluebird nest and gained control of the box from the bluebirds. I tossed out the sparrow nest and set a Huber-Tuttle trap on the entrance hole. I checked the trap twice a day for several days, but no luck. Then, I had to work on a Saturday, starting early in morn., so I couldn't make the morning check. When I finally got to the box at 2:30pm the trap was sprung. When I looked inside, I found not a HOSP, but a male bluebird, and he had damaged his wing to the point of bleeding. He looked to be okay, but when I released him he couldn't fly well; some of his primaries were damaged, and flight was very labored. He immediately began to feed on the lawn (very hungry), and his mate joined him there, so it looked like he would be okay.

However, this was the very first time that I had ever used an in-box trap, and it turned out rather badly. These traps, when sprung, have a wire that sticks straight out into the interior of the box, and this is what caused the injury to the bluebird's wing as he fluttered around trying to get out. I'm certain that mine can't be the only such story. I have continued to use that trap--with much success--but only when I'm able to check it every couple of hours, or so. Has anyone else had a similar experience with these traps? What is the "established" time interval for checking them?

(also: I wonder how long it would take a bluebird to generate new wing primaries after damage has occurred) KP

Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas
For those new to the list the "sparrow trap" is simply a "live trap" designed to catch anything entering the nestbox. It fastens to the inside front of the box to a board usually less than 3/4" thick (I use 3/8") & small enough to easily slip into the box & has a hole centered so that it will line up with the box entrance. The trap mechanism is normally a flat bar of steel (for weight) 1" wide X3" long and 1/8"1/4" thick (I prefer an aluminum bar 1/4" thick since it is lighter, less chance of a premature trip and trapping the bird by the neck as it enters & also easier to cut & drill than steel). This size works in nestboxes where the entrance hole has at least an 1" of clearance between the roof and the top of the hole. It works on the guillotine principle. The bar is laid on the trap board & mark a spot to drill a hole in the steel up and in 3/8" from a bottom corner (on the right). The bar is fastened with a small screw to the board so it can pivot down and cover the bottom 2/3 thirds of the entrance when tripped. A trip wire 9" long made from a clothes hanger (3/32" welding rod) is bent at 90* (degrees) 3" from one end. Lay this so the 3" leg is propping up the bar & the 6" leg runs under the entrance hole, bend this 6" leg again at 3" so that the wire ends up on a negative 45* and slightly below the entrance hole (about an inch) so that when the bird enters it has to "trip" over this wire to reach the bottom of the box, releasing the door and blocking all but 1/2" of the entrance. A stop screw is attached at the bottom edge of the bar in this location to lock the door from dropping too far. I use side opening boxes that swing up from the bottom 4.75X4.75 so my traps are 4"x4" so the side when open will clear the traps. I attach the trap to the box by running a screw through the front of the box and just through the wood trap on the inside. Lift the bar and set the trip wire.
Joe Huber and Andrew Troyer make two good traps similar to this and many credit them with the design for nestboxes. It is based on deadfall traps used since prehistoric times to kill animals for food or skins. Nearly every state has a similar version of their styles!

As Kevin has just pointed out they can kill or seriously harm innocent victim's. Birds molt twice a year (get new feathers) so a bird already in spring breeding plumage will not molt again until late fall. A set of feathers is not replaced just because they break. In cool temperatures (under 80*F) sparrows can last half a day trapped (very stressful) in a nestbox. In 100*F+ temperature in full sun I watched a sparrow get trapped at 12 noon and it died by 1:15 during a long lunch hour! Use this only as a guideline for trap checking intervals! As Kevin pointed out about the male not being able to fly with damaged wing feathers, I trim the sparrows 5 primary flight feathers on each wing and release them where food and water is available. As he pointed out with the bluebirds staying together I have watched a male sparrow guard and protect his mate trimmed in May until August (when she got hit by a car) and not attempt to attract another mate. (I feel this devotion was extremely rare in House Sparrows.) Caged birds (cockatiels) designed for fast flight (like European starlings) have 10 primaries trimmed off each wing to keep them from flying. If only 3 or 4 primaries on one wing are damaged on Kevin's bluebird I have seen House sparrows learn to compensate for the amount of lift lost by holding their tail fanned out on that side and fly "skewed" like a plane landing in a cross wind. This was learned in a matter of hours but makes them a target just like a wounded minnow in a pond full of bass.KK

Hi Kevin,

I can't give profound info on webl primary feather growth except to pass on what Pyle, et al say about the adult AHY (= after hatch year) prebasic feather molt(PB).

Many species including the bluebirds have a molt strategy that includes a single "predominant" replacement of feathers during the year. Pyle refers to our "north-temporate" birds and states the prebasic molt occurs just after the breeding season (from July-September, October) and, for all bluebirds, on the summering grounds. This PB is a complete molt(includes all body and flight feathers).

The following would cover all three species of bluebirds;

PB molt: HY(hatch year) partial-incomplete(July-October), AHY complete(July-October). The PBs occur on the summering grounds.

BTW, the partial-incomplete, HY PB mentioned above enables one to age first year birds after that first, summer grounds molt(HY PB). This is possible because part of the wing feathers are old and part are new (incomplete).

BTW2, If I wing clip my rat pigeons they can fly again in about 2 months.

TRAP TRIP WIRES: While I don't own a Huber-Tuttle trap, I gather that the part of the wire that was vertical when the trap was set becomes horizontal (and protruces into the nest) when the trap is sprung.

On the Gilbertson trap (which works with both PVC and standard wooden boxes) the trip wire looks like a lower case "g" and the entire trip wire folds down into the nest when the trap is sprung.

To dputman and all. Long ago I 'redesigned" the Huber wire mechanism for that very reason. I had not had a disaster but found it possible and also somewhat difficult to adjust properly. The system for the trap door itself is the same. I use a 1" x3 " mending plate and a "u" staple for the stop. However, instead of the wire tripper I use a string and nail. Put a screw eye in an upper corner of the back wall . To this attach a string with a small nail on the end. The nail will go into the hole to hold the door open when the trap is armed. The length of the string is critical for it must not touch the foor but hang down from the screw eye, be about 1 inch from the floor and follow up to the nail in the hole. Nail must be able to be easily pulled from the hole when the bird steps on the string. The beauty of this method is that I can keep the trap always on the box, disarmed by putting a screw eye into the nail hole to hold the door safely open until a HOSP chooses the box. When the box is not armed the string is hanging out of the box. No wires inside to injure or get tangled in a nest or that have to be put on and removed. One goes on every box as I make it. On occasion I have had a difficult HOSP that simply did not trip it. For that I put the nail on the outside, attached with monofilament line leading to a blind with me inside to manually trip the trap door. Time-consuming, yes but I win! This way I can also choose exactly the bird I want with no trauma to a possible bluebird. All of my boxes are NABS style, front opening.

Ruth Edwards. Westport, MA

The idea of using infertile eggs or marbles in House Sparrow nests has been around for years. While there have been some that were a success not all have been. Some areas have low populations of HOSP to begin with so may get through the year. I hate to see all of you out there with dozens of boxes tied up with HOSP nests that are going nowhere and still have a risk of BB nests being destroyed. Not every box location will be away from danger. You are killing 6 or 7 eggs instead of 1 male sparrow. Where My boxes are in Ohio if boiling eggs was tried there would be about 8 boxes tied up in the neighborhood with HOSP nests. Maybe no one else really has sparrows to contend with. The fastest solution is to trap the male in the box the first couple of days he is there. its over right then and you don't need to wait & worry for weeks. No wasted boxes & the possibility that a BB will move in the next day as happened to me many times. Why leave the HOSP out there to multiply & spread further. I don't want you to learn from experience but learn from mine. I know it works very well. The EABL TUTI TRES & CACH that fledged prove that. If something is working for you don't change it because of me. Trapping is the only thing that works for sure if anything will.

Charter member NABS, Charter member OBS, Life member OBS Joe Huber
hubertrap"at"webtv.net

Hi Kate, Realized one main problem you had was not covered in the last post. You said this year you were not at home enough to trap properly and watch. One method for trapping in a nest box that sparrows take to is setting the trap in the evening just at dark. The male generally arrives in the AM and the first thing he does is enter the box. Believe Keith Kridler mentioned recently doing this in some of his boxes. This way you need not spend much time or watching. When you are at home it generally doesn't take long to catch one. No need to watch the box with trap set. Just return in 10 to 15 min to se if trap plate has closed off the entrance.

Charter member NABS, Charter member OBS, Life member OBS Joe Huber
hubertrap"at"webtv.net

Hello. I have a question for all of you. I know someone out here will be able to answer it. I have had 3 Eastern BB's just show up in my backyard. Over the past two days they have been choosing nestboxes. I believe they have decided on 2A even though they are taunted by the miserable house sparrows occasionally. That will be another question. There are two males and 1 female. The two males are going in and out of the house and one seems to go in the house and then the other sits on the outside of the hole seeming to be passing something to the other or just looking in??. Then the two fly out of and off the house and the female goes in. What are they doing? Also, I have a problem with House Sparrows. They seem to come and check the house as soon as the BB's fly away. I even seen them checking out the houses farther out in the field after the BB's have been in them. Is there a way to protect the BB's better than just the regular guard that the House Sparrows still go through? The BB's have been doing a good job of chasing them off but we are in farm country and have a lot of House Sparrows around. I would be very interested in what these BB's are doing this time of year. Thanks for your help!!!

Stephanie in Alabama, NY

Dear Stephanie,
I know you are not going to like what I am about to tell you!! Or maybe you are one of the few who truly hate house sparrows to the point that you can trap and destroy them??????

That's right, trap and DESTROY!!! They are not a protected species so you may destroy they any way you like. I use an in-house trap BUT you have to monitor it almost housrly to avoid catching a bluebird also.  Once you have a male house sparrow (black bib and black face) you can then put him into a ground trap as a decoy and trap the females. I believe there is a site about trapping house sparrows in the REF-L (reference list). This subject was throughly "grilled" last spring so we don't need to revisit the subject. Each of you can check the reference list and respond on-line as needed for clarification. You are all such wonderful fountains of information. Keep up the good work. Make sure Santa's elves are making you lots of bluebird boxes, find those wonderful volunteers to erect and monitor them and you will have a Happy Bluebirding 2000!!
Carolyn Hall, The Sandhills Bluebird Lady, Bassett, NE in the wonderful Sandhills of north central Nebraska where it is 28*, partly sunny and we need moisture. We would even take sonow at this point of time!!

To all you experienced trappers of the infamous House Sparrow: am I likely to catch a sparrow in a nestbox at this time of year? I am trying to catch a decoy for my repeating trap, so I installed a Huber-type trap in the nestbox nearest the barn, where I see 1-6 sparrows congregating daily, usually sitting on top of it or on top of the fencepost nearby (multi-strand electric fence, no predators are going to climb up to get to the nestbox). I check it religiously, and found it tripped on two occasions, with no bird inside.

This AM I found it tripped and when I approached with the cardboard tube and bag assembly for catching a bird as it exited the hole, just in case, I heard scratching inside. "A sparrow!" I thought, but nothing came out of the hole. I tapped on the box, still nothing came out. It's a top-opening box, so I really didn't want the bird to fly out, but finally I lifted the top. There was a male bluebird inside. He hunkered down in the box and would not come out, even when I left the top and hole wide open for him, so I finally reached inside gently, caught him and released him. He flew off giving a two-tone cry.

Obviously a nestbox trap can catch any bird that happens to venture inside, but are house sparrows likely to venture inside at this time of year? It hasn't really been cold enough for roosting, or I'd probably not have installed the trap until nesting season, but I do want to catch a decoy, since the little devils are around. They prevented any bluebird from usingthat box last season, and prior to their incursion, it had been my most productive box, producing 2-3 clutches each year. If all I'm likely to catch is bluebirds, I'll remove the trap for the time being.

Another sparrow question. I set up the elevator trap as instructed, balancing it with 5 quarters. One day I saw a white-crowned sparrow walk across the "trap" part and get some seeds from the bait tray. Do white-crowned sparrows weigh less than house sparrows, or do I need to readjust the counter-weight?

I appreciate any help from Joe or Keith or any other experienced sparrow-trappers.

Kate Oschwald
Sumner, TX (100 mi NE of Dallas)

To: The Constituency,
Some time back a couple of you on this List made some good recommendations for QUALITY pellet guns, with scopes, for use in controlling vermin, - specifically, House Sparrows. I stress QUALITY because this old Daisy BB-gun I have doesn't do much more than startle them. Several of us would appreciate it if you would repeat those recommendations. Somebody asked the other day, and for the life of me I couldn't find the information. Advice like this is important because these people have actually USED these pieces, and know that they are effective. Further, pellet guns are good tools because they don't rile up the neighbors as much as pistols, rifles, and shotguns. I guess it would be politic not to discuss cat control with air guns on this List. That's a lesson we've learned.

Bruce Burdett, NH Bluebird Conspiracy, which, if the Gods' mills go on grinding as they are wont, might soon become a full-fledged Affiliate of NABS! Ora pro nobis.

Hello Kate, et al,

Like the majority of us Bluebirders, house (English) sparrows are my most important area of concern. I trap them (successfully) year 'round. I'm averaging a half-dozen birds each week. That number will at least double once the nesting season gets here.

I use a 'Have-a-Heart' trap that has two elevators, one on either side of the unit. The center section is a holding area where the birds go once they discover that they cannot escape from either of the elevator sections. Once they get into the center section, they cannot move back to the elevator section(s), ...there is a neat little 'one-way' door that prevents them from returning (and possibly escaping) to the elevator area. I try to keep food and water in the center section to keep my tenants (decoys) alive and active.

These elvators require no balancing or adjustment. The doors on top of each elevator section are integral parts of the trigger mechanism. I scatter cracker/cookie crumbs inside to lure the cagey house sparrows. I've accidentally trapped the odd starling. In warmer weather, I'll get the occasional grackle. 99.9% of my visitors are HOSP's. Of the 99.9%, approximately two thirds are female HOSP's.

I have a couple of Joe Huber's traps and use them only when I can monitor HOSP nesting activity at one of my boxes. They are very effective!! Alternately, the Have-a-Heart traps are practically maintenance free, simple to set up and foolproof. I keep moving mine around the place because the HOSP's do become "Wise" to them.

I'm guessing that you can purchase a Have-a-Heart trap at Wild Birds Unlimited, any good feed store or farm supply place. I'm estimating the cost to be somewhere around $30 bucks. I've been using mine for some 7 years now. If you do the math, that's a lot of HOSP's !!! ....less than .02 cents per HOSP !! A very worthy cause!

FYI: I live near the North shore of Lake Erie, in Ontario. I'm some 26 miles South of Detroit. BB's are making a nice recovery here and in nearby Southeastern Michigan. Until a few years ago, I hadn't seen a BB since I was a young fellow back in the early 1040's. ...We must be doing something right.

Brucemac1"at"aol.com

Crossman is the CO2 pellet rifle and Daisy makes the air rifle. We use them both in 4-H training........Sam

...

Hello Bruce, Do you have a real Have-A-Hart trap or a copy?? Didn't know any one was making a dual elevator trap now days. In the past I've made my own from the original Have-A-Hart which was borrowed from a friend in early 70,s. The elevator was simply an arm with the cage on one end and adjustable weights on the other. It was balanced by sliding the weight one way or the other. It balanced for a House sparrow with the weight of one Quarter. Some one is making them differently than in the past apparently. Think this was discussed once before but apparently I missed something. Fill us in. Joe Huber Venice Fl.

Hello There Mr. Huber et al,

Te first thing I want to do is correct the statement that I made earlier,  alluding to one of your traps. I have a couple of Mel Bolt's traps. Please  forgive the misstatement.

The Have-A-Hart that I have, dual elevators and all, is, I believe, an original. It has no nameplate on it, tho. It could be a copy..??? How does one identify ? It's been several years since I bought them. (I did have two, but one has since disappeared). They originally came in boxes and I believe that's where I got the name. ...not certain tho. As I recall, when I bought mine ( I was living in Woodstock, Ontario at the time) there were different sizes available. One was smaller than mine and I think there were two more that were larger.

Original or copy, it certainly works well. The doors, all three of them, are 'spring operated'. The two doors, one on either end, have extensions that swing down into the bait area. The extensions 'latch' onto a circular perch, or trigger.. When any kind of a weight touches the trigger (even a heavy wind will do it) ...BINGO !!, the door snaps shut. There is no adjusting the amount of weight required. The center door is spring loaded too, but it remains closed except when removing my prey.

The device is shaped like a 'shoebox', slightly larger than ordinary. It's 18" wide, 6.5" high and 10" from front to back. Each compartment, i.e., the two bait chambers and the holding chamber in the center, is approx 6" wide. Both ends and the two partitions are made of solid galvanized sheet metal. The doors are also sheetmetal, but with holes punched and much lighter metal. The perches and triggers, etc, appear to be aluminum. There are also two small bait holders/cups for seeds, crumbs, etc. The front, floor, back and top are made with what I'd call 'Hardware Cloth' . Galvanized metal screening, with large 1/2" x 3/4" holes. I hope this helps.

Brucemac1"at"aol.com

Haleya Priest Amherst MA

Santa (being me) brought me a Crossman 2100 which was recommended to me (also the 1400) by many listservers over the course of several months. I'll tell ya, it works wonders. I just got a scope ($30.00 range) and it allows for even more accuracy. H

Hi Kathleen,

The traps that Bruce and Joe discussed in the first two replies to your question are, I suspect, different than the style you have. Mine also balances with FIVE US quarters. I purchased it from the PMCA (Purple Martin Conservation Assoc.) I have the instructions in front of me (from the PMCA's Repeating Bait Trap), an excerpt:

(the trap chamber should be) "able to pivot down quickly when a House Sparrow, which weighs about 28 grams, steps onto it. Twenty-eight grams is what 5 U.S. quarters weigh. Try setting 5 quarters on the center of the pivot trap chamber to make sure it falls rapidly."

It only has an elevator on one side and a counter weight on the other with a wingnut that lets you adjust it.

I actually had much better luck with the non-repeating "two-sider" that I purchased from Troyer's The Bird's Paradise. The House Sparrows were much less wary of it.

I wish I could help you on your question about whether you could trap them in a box at this time of year. I've completely suspended my trapping efforts until
Spring as I don't have any live decoys left and it appears I eliminated all them from my inner-suburban block for the time being. Depending on your surroundings, it sounds like a decent pellet rifle with a scope could solve your current situation, if you are so inclined.

Good Luck,

Dave Bagley
Maryland (overcast and drizzling)

Kathleen Oschwald wrote:

To all you experienced trappers of the infamous House Sparrow: am I likely
to catch a sparrow in a nestbox at this time of year? I am trying to catch
a decoy....
Kate Oschwald
Sumner, TX (100 mi NE of Dallas)

...

I have tried pellet guns too. I have also found them to be inaccurate. (perhaps it's my inability to aim the gun..??)

I have a solution that works well for me but may not be suitable for others. When the need arises, I've found that .22 cal. "Shotshells" are 'just the thing'!! They're highly effective and much more satisfying (or, if you prefer, less frustrating) than pellet guns! One doesn't need to be able hit a bullseye at 100 yards.

These cartridges have a very limited range (50 yards ??) and make scarcely more noise than a child's 'Cap Pistol'. But they do the trick. The tiny pellets are not much larger than coarse sand grains. They spread quickly and will knock HOSP down if you aim anywhere close. There's no limit on HOSP and they're not protected !!

Brucemac1"at"aol.com

Crossman is the CO2 pellet rifle and Daisy makes the air rifle. We use them bothin 4-H training........Sam

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Someone mentioned Hav-a-hart; I did not find a sparrow trap listed either, but here is the website URL:

www.havahart.com

Bill

Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas
The "havahart" that Brucemac is describing is actually a "Trio" sparrow trap and they are still available from several different suppliers.

Kathleen: The Starlings are beginning to stake out and investigate cavities in our part of the south. House Sparrows often start looking at nestboxes anytime the temperature reaches 70*F so if you can watch the trap closely, go ahead and try to catch your sparrows early. It does not seem to alarm bluebirds when they are trapped in a nestbox. Just don't forget to keep checking every hour or so on these warm days. KK

Hi Bruce, You just described the ST-1 Trio sparrow trap. They are made in Griggsvile Il. I've used 4 of them for years. You need to be introduced to the elevator type trap that resets automatically and requires much less work on your part . It will double your catch and you may catch up with those sparrows. Decoys die too fast in the St-1 trap. They can last for weeks in the other trap. The elevator trap makes no sound as sparrows gently sink to the bottom and enter the decoy cage. Will send you a photo of a single elevator trap. Think they stopped putting on those door clips that hold doors shut. Sparrows still can't get out but Starling could. Joe Huber Venice Fl.

Congratulations on your latest acquisition. Speaking from the postion of an avid pellet gun enthusiast, I offer the following advice: PRACTICE.  Start out by setting up a target at the normal working distance you feel you will encounter when using the pellet gun. Be sure to sight in the telecopic sight for this distance. You can get very accurate pellets, in the .177 and .22 caliber at Walmart and K-Mart. They are the Copperhead brand and cost about $3.00 per box. No need to spend $7-10 on specialty brand or copper plated pellets.

If you are going after the infamous english sparrow, you will need to become very proficient and accurate. The scope will be a big help, just be sure you have taken the time to "sight it in". Send me a private e-mail if you need help on understanding how to do this.

PRACTICE. Use the same number of pumps, if the weapon is a pump type, as this will ensure repeat-ability. Also, learn how to shoot from a "supported position", using a tree, corner of building, or other stable object. A neat idea for a backstop when practicing is an old phone book.  The pellet will not penetrate the book completely unless the book is rather thin. You can check the degree of penetration by seeing how many pages the pellet clearly penetrated. Also, you can get 3" orange paste-on disks in the sporting section of most major stores. Past an orange target on the phone book and fire away. Another good backstop is a large cardboard box packed tightly with folded newpapers.

There are other safety and accuracy considerations I would be glad to share with you. If interested, just ask.

Have fun.
R. D. Sipprell
Rock HIll, SC

I have enjoyed the use of pellet guns for several years. My initial interest was for target shooting, vermin control, and 4-legged creature training. Thereafter, I became interested in Bluebirds and found my experience and knowledge to date with pellet guns very useful in furthering the establishment of BB's (no pun intended) in my area. I even had the opportunity to gain control of a human preditor problem via this aforementioned knowledge.

Success with a pellet gun requires for what ever purpose generally calls for the following:

1.) Good equipment
2.) Training and practice
3.) Good ammunition
4.) PRACTICE, and more practice.

If this sounds similar to what you would do to be proficient with a standard hand gun or rifle, it is because it IS the same requirements, discipline, and mind-set. In the eyes of our ever more politically correct law enforcement agencies, a pellet un is regarded the same as any "gun" type weapon. So, proper training and use of the device is important.

Crossman and Daisey both produce suitable pellet guns. Much better equipment is available from sporting goods stores, such as RWS, Sheridan, and my personal favorite Feinwerkbau. However, this represents expensive equipment and is really geared more for the shooting enthusiast than the occasional "plinker".

Things to look for in a decent pellet gun:

1.) Rifled barrel; provides better accuracy. Look for a weapon that is specifically for pellets, versus bb's. Yes, you can shoot a b-b from a pellet gun, but the accuracy is much less and you will ultimately loose the accuracy of the weapon.
2.) A muzzle speed of at least 550 feet per second. 750-880 fps is preferred.
3.) A caliber of 0.177 is standard, but if you can get a 0.20 caliber, take it. The knock-down power is better.
4.) A telescopic sight, with a minimum of 4X power. Look for a scope with a large lens, as this provides better light gathering and sometimes a wider field of view. A preferred scope would be a 4X by 40mm, meaning four power and a 40 mm objective lens. I use a variable power scope, 4-12X, mounted on a Feinwekbau 124D, sighted in at 110 feet, a very serious weapon. I also use a Charles Daley 4x40 scope on a Crossman pump, with very good results and at 1/3 the cost.
5.) The ability to mount a scope. Ask the clerk, or read the info on the carton to see if a scope can be attached to the weapon.

Some people have used 22 caliber rifles with a "spread shot", making the weapon a form of shot gun. This can be very effective, but at close range, The rifling in the barrel of a 22 rifle will cause the tiny shot particles to swirl upon release. In some instances, you have to be more "surgically accurate" when trying to knock down an english sparrow in the midst of other birds.

Lastly, and my appologies for the lengthy epistle, be sure to apply what has already been adivsed previously on this list server by folks eminently more qualified than I when it comes to english sparrow control. Proper bird house location, elimination of english sparrow attractions, education of your neighbors whose little "cutsie" bird houses are nothing more than sparrow hotels, proper bird food selection (for other species) all are helpful in minimizing the encroachment by english sparrows. Also, for all my expenditures and enjoyment with sophisticated air gun equipment, I have taken far more english sparrows via the mouse trap technique than with my FB124D. Starlings, however, remain the target of choice.

Hope some or all of this has been helpful.

R. D. Sipprell
Rock Hill, SC

74041.3012"at"compuserve.com

I guess it all depends on the situation.Muzzel loaders work well with plastic bullets but I hazard a guess that pellet guns and BB guns are more politically correct in many areas. Bruce I have kids that can hit a moving target with a BB gun. That is what we use for shotgun training.You should do more target practice. Here at the motel I use a Daisy pistol.....Sam

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Haleya Priest Amherst MA

I have 2 HOSP (House sparrow) problem questions.

1) On my new trail: At one site I have 2 paired boxes and 300-400' ft away another box. The one not paired has claim straws. One of the paired boxes has not only claim straws but LOTS of berry poop. The other paired box is the problem. It has a HOSP nesting in it. I took out the "nest" they had started a couple months ago, but they are still roosting in it because the large amounts of HOSP poop in it.  What do I do? It is in a oval holed box. Not sure if I can trap with the Huber or Merlin in door trap in an oval hole. And how do I deal with the owners of the property who will be quite curious about the trap and what will happen. How do I deal with trapping more than one bird. Ok, I'm sure I can do it, but just need a few words about it.. Unless there are other ideas....

2) Trail at a friend's house: She's got probably 10+ boxes, mostly taken by HOSP and HOWR. I've gone through her trail and helped clean them out, ideas for reconfigure placement, etc. Found dead TRES in some (HOSP killed them?), gave suggestions to make trail work more for EABL, etc. Left hoping for the best. Ok, she's called back and is ready to deal with at least the HOSP including plugging up holes of Purple Martin house (no purple martins in this area anymore). Question: I thought there were traps you could put right IN the box that would trap the HOSP in a cage in the box. An in-door trap doesn't work for her because she wants her partner to "take care" of it when he gets home. She WILL check throughout the day to make sure a bird doesn't perish in the box - but she needs to be able to open the box and free it if by chance it is a EABL, or to put it in the shade until she can get her partner to deal (yes, within a reasonable amount of time). Anyhow, I can't find a trap like that in Troyer's catalogue. Am I making it up? I thought there were traps as I describe. Thanks. H

Bushnell has produced good telecopic sights over the years. I am surprised you would have a variable power scope that has only a 20 mm objective lens. It sounds like something for a novice or child. No real problem, but you will find a larger optic scope, such as a 4x40, will do very well for you.  The smaller the lens of the scope, the darker the view. Also, eye relief is sometimes minimal. This is the distance between your eye and the viewing end of the scope. Ideally, you want to be able to see a full field of view without having to plaster your eyeball up against the scope.

Another concern is that scopes supplied with modest or marginal equipment will almost always be a compromise. Buy a Crossman or Daise from Walmart or K-Mart. Then, head on down to a regular sporting store that sells rifles. Ask to see their selection of 4x40 scopes. Do not blow a bundle here, as very good (and $$$$) scopes will not survive on certain types of air rifles, namely internal spring types. This is because the scope has been built for a standard rifle which, upon firing, will have a notable recoil - in one direction only. A spring powered air rifle (these are usually the higher priced versions) will have a recoil in both directions, resulting in ultimate damage to the scope optics.

Ask for a Charles Daley scope or equivalent. I think I paid $40 for it, and the store clerk said it was guaranteed to work on an air rifle. He was right! I have worn out two rifles, still using the same scope.
Keep me informed of your "progress".

Kindest regards
R. D. Sipprell
Rock Hill, SC
74041.3012"at"compuserve.com

Hi Carolyn, Can't answer your question on how long water will last in a bird bath with all those birds using it but in my case it would be until it froze and broke, thus falling to the ground. How to trap those sparrows may be a better question for me to answer. Actually the ideal place to trap them would be under that Lilac bush you say they go to after the bird bath. depends on how well you know the people at that house. If possible that would be the best place to place a trap. Once you catch one it will help draw in other sparrows. If you can't locate a trap under the Lilac bush then try one right under the water source (birdbath). Use only cracked corn as bait. This makes it less likely to catch the other birds you mention. Keep a close eye on the trap in case another species gets in the trap. After one is caught the trap can be moved to a different location. The live decoy sparrow will draw other sparrows to it. Joe Huber Venice Fl.

Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 14:50:43 -0500 (EST)
From: hubertrap"at"webtv.net (Joe Huber)
To: mcwrigh"at"nppd.com, BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: RE: hello.....again
Message-ID: 15176-3895E793-6323"at"storefull-278.iap.bryant.webtv.net

Hi All, The mention of eating sparrows reminds me of years ago before I knew there were Bluebirds. We had a chicken house in our back yard like many people did in those days. House Sparrows were eating so much seed that my dad decided to trap them in the chicken house. He showed me how to pull the screen door of the chicken house shut with a chalk line. We went inside and took a broom to bat them down. The neighbors next to us came there only on weekends to fish. When they learned what we were doing they ask if we would save the next bunch so they could clean them and eat them. The next day I caught 40 and took to them. I watched them clean them but never tasted any whrn they fixed them. Must have been too good to share. So when I started Bluebirding the house sparrow was easily identified Joe Huber Venice Fl.

Folks, check this out! http://forum.purplemartin.org/forum/

These Purple Martin guys have something too! Go to the forums and scroll down to "The NB compact trap" and look. Haleya and others who despise starlings so much as I do, will get a buzz from this trap. I can't wait to start one, and it may work for sparrows too.

Warning! You may turn into a Purple Martin Freak like I beginning to! Long live Purple Martins and Bluebirds.

Bill Darnell
Savannah, Tn

Joe Huber Venice Fl. Where we had no frost this winter.

Kevin, Hope you find a good cheap trap. They are not cheap to buy and no plans are available that I know of to help you build one. I have helped a few make their own by sending photos and written instructions. This may be the hard way but I've seen good results this way. If there is a repeating trap that you can borrow you can make one from it. That's how my first one was made. The repeating trap will catch more in one year than any other. The secret is to have live sparrows in it at all times a decoys. This is what makes it work. An empty trap grows moss and doesn't catch much. The best situation is to use a trap in the nest box, a ST-1 and a repeating trap all in combination. When a sparrow is caught place it into the decoy section of the repeating trap as a decoy. This draws others to the trap where they also become decoys. You will catch some before they ever touch a nest box. You can cover this entire trap to protect the decoys and trap works. You still keep on catching as long as live sparrows are in the trap. I personally used this trap combination over 20 years in Ohio and know what it can do. The secret is keeping live decoys to draw in others. The first year over 300 were caught and in later years chickadees and Tufted Titmouse nests were found each year along with abundant Bluebirds. Joe

Charter member NABS, Charter member OBS, Life member OBS Joe Huber
hubertrap"at"webtv.net
http://community.webtv.net/hubertrap/HOUSESPARROWCONTROL
http://community.webtv.net/hubertrap/RoostingBluebirds

To Joe et all,

I have been bluebirding for almost 10 yrs. now and know about the decoy bird or judas bird because I did it last with a friend's sparrow trap he bought from Purple Martin Society. Caught over 31 sparrows for the year. Now I want one of my own. I know that they are not cheap especially repeaters. I bought two house traps from Mel Bolt last year and he told me,(chuckle) to instead of drown him, like him, use a screw driver until his eyes close. Of course I don't take them out like that! Thank you to all!

This is a post from Dean Sheldon from June the 8th. I have kept it ever since because I think it is pretty neat. I hope you don't mind Dean. This is to everyone who doesn't have the money or does not want a sparrow trap. It works! I tried it last year on two of my boxes. But I want a trap anyway! Enjoy and thank you Dean! Kevin

From: dean sheldon dsheldonjr"at"hotmail.com
Reply-To: dsheldonjr"at"hotmail.com
To: kestrel"at"fuse.net
CC: BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Handling HOSP
Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 17:38:39 PDT

Ted makes a good point about sparrow control.
....
HOSP...smile...Dean

This repeating trap came up before on the list. I mention it again here as I was asked to do so on the "chat" room a few hours ago. I have a few suggestions to improve the design. If you decide to build one, let me know and I'll give you a few hints to improve it drastically (let me know BEFORE you make one!) To get the plans:

go to http://forum.purplemartin.org/forum and click on "The Archives", then scroll down to where you will find something called the "NB-Compact Trap" and click on that. You'll see a marvelous repeating trap. Click on Drawing #1 and #2 for more detailed drawings.

I suggest two improvements, one of which is already suggested in the article itself, the other seems natural for a better working movement. Here are my suggestions:

1. As mentioned in the article, the coffee can is usually made ofsteel and is very heavy. If you can, find a can made of aluminum, use that instead. I could not find a can made of aluminum, so I used aluminum flashing to make such a can. Cut a piece of flashing 6-5/8 by 20-1/4 inches. Roll it into a cylinder overlapping one inch at the ends. Now use a riveter to put three rivets in the overlapping region. This should make a can with no ends whose size is 6-1/8 inches in diameter and 6-5/8 inch in length, just the size of the can specified in the plans. This makes the moving mechanism lighter, hence faster to catch sparrows better (it will also catch starlings better). If you use 6 inch flashing, then make the box 5/8 inch narrower (6-3/8 instead of 7 inches deep).

2. Next, you'll notice the plans call for pivot points using a screw in wood. Such a pivot (metal in wood) has too much friction and does not allow the trap to swing easily. A metal on metal pivot would work much better. At the point where the pivot should be, drill a larger hole in the two sides of the box, say about 3/4 inch in diameter. On the inside of each side, screw a flat plate of thin metal covering these holes. Drill a hole in each of these metal "strips" or plates for the pivot. The size of the pivot hole is such that the wood screw you'll use to hold the cross arm is just free to rotate in this hole. It is easier to pre-drill the pivot holes in the plates before you mount the plates in place. Also, it is better to have the box unassembled and mount the plates on the sides before putting the box together again. You can shorten the cross arm a little for a free moving mechanism.

Now balance the movement using the counterweight. You'll need much less weights, and the movement will be much better! Good luck with it.

Fawzi Emad, Laytonsville, Maryland
In Northern Montgomery County
30 miles North of Washington, DC

I doubt there is a foolproof system to prevent sparrows killing bluebirds. This has happened only once for me ( in 8 years) and the sparrow probably was totally inside the box. He then built his trashy nest on top of the dead bluebird.

I live in northeast Alabama, also further north than most of South Carolina and a bit of North Carolina. I have 40 or so Peterson style boxes and the past few years I have stopped trying to trap and kill sparrows. I just wait until the sparrow lays all her eggs and after a week or so I remove the eggs and the nest. After I remove the second set of eggs the sparrow goes away. I realize this will not be good for folks with only a few boxes.

In this area boxes located well away from farm buildings seem to attract less sparrows.

Jerry Carter
Paint Rock Valley Alabama

Joe Huber Venice Fl. the city on the gulf Hello Gary, I believe the sparrow enters the box before attacking the Bluebird. There was one reported case of a person opening a nest box while a sparrow was pecking a bluebird. The sparrow didn't stop as the box was opened. Tom Barber in OHio had set a trap once to catch a sparrow and when he returned he had a bluebird and a sparrow both in the box. He reached in and got the sparrow. No one yet knows if a bluebird would try to leave the box if being attacked,or try to defend his nest. Joe

Charter member NABS, Charter member OBS, Life member OBS Joe Huber
hubertrap"at"webtv.net
http://community.webtv.net/hubertrap/HOUSESPARROWCONTROL
http://community.webtv.net/hubertrap/RoostingBluebirds

Ann Auer....Northern Indiana.........High today 34 degrees and windy

Hello Everyone! I will tell you right now that if you have a weak stomach and do not agree with dealing with HOSP, then delete this Message.

I've read with interest all the posts about killing/not killing HOSP........the thought of killing HOSP or any other bird totally repulsed me until about 5 years ago, our first nesting of the season, the 12 day old babies were killed by a male HOSP......we went that very day and bought a ground trap and a pellet gun. The last three years we have disposed of over 600 sparrows per year, and we now recycle them and take them to a raptor rehabilitation center. Where is this story leading?????

This afternoon I heard a bird hit our patio door and ran in to see what it was.......a male house sparrow was flailing on the deck....just for the heck of it I opened the patio door and told the dogs to "get it" (we have a Westie and a Scottie). Well, the Westie raced out and grabbed the sparrow and I immediately grabbed her and tried to get her to drop it....my husband also came out to help.......needless to say she chomped a couple of times and down went the whole thing....feathers, bones and all......I sure hope she doesn't get sick!! I never really intended for that to happen, although I would not have let the HOSP have his freedom!!!

I certainly understand people who cannot deal with HOSP.....although please do not let them nest in your boxes, because next year there will just be more of them to hassle your bluebirds.

Joe Huber Venice FL. City on the Gulf HI Brenda and all, The trap is shown both ways. One is built on plywood and then placed in the box while the built in is always in the box ready to be set. The one easiest to use is the built in trap since only the steel plate is added when needed. The hole in the steel plate lets it lip over the head of the mounting screw and fall in behind the screw head. The plate is held very secure with this method and makes it very easy to set the trap when needed. Most people still use the ply insert trap like the one that I made in the early 70,s

Charter member NABS, Charter member OBS, Life member OBS Joe Huber
hubertrap"at"webtv.net
http://community.webtv.net/hubertrap/HOUSESPARROWCONTROL
http://community.webtv.net/hubertrap/RoostingBluebirds

Joe,

I recently saw your trap design in the New York State Bluebird Society newsletter. Is this front meant to be a permanent front of a nestbox, or can it be used as a temporary insert in a box that a HOSP has claimed? Could it just be attached somehow so the holes line up and then removed after the HOSP has been eliminated?

(The things I think of at night just before I fall asleep!)

Brenda
--
Brenda Best
Durhamville, NY
(between Syracuse and Utica)
jabbest"at"dreamscape.com

The Nature Club of Central New York
http://natureclubofcny.8m.com/

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