Hawks/Owls as cavity nesters or as problems on the bluebird trail (Part 1)

Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 17:11:09 PST
From: "dean sheldon" dsheldonjr"at"hotmail.com
To: BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Cc: jblakeman"at"aol.com
Subject: Fwd: Redtails at the feeder -- feeding on the birds to be fed.

Just wanted to make sure that NO ONE missed this. It's worth a bookmark and comes from one of the country's finest experts on raptors...bar none. Read it...believe it...and understand that he's also one of those who have taken Sialian vows. He has a bluebird trail running through his prairiegrass plantings near Huron in Erie County, OH.

From: Jablakeman"at"aol.com
To: bluebird-L"at"cornell.edu, dsheldonjr"at"hotmail.com
Subject: Redtails at the feeder -- feeding on the birds to be fed.
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 19:46:02 EST

A copy of your note regarding redtails and sharpshins preying on passerines
at your feeder was forwarded to me for comment. I am a raptor biologist (30
yr), a licensed falconer (have flown the same redtail for 12 seasons), and
a
public lecturer (slide shows) on native Ohio raptors and other natural
history topics. I'm also a high school biology teacher.

Your situation is more common than most birdwatchers believe. I'm surprised
that you haven't had a Cooper's Hawk taking birds at your feeder. (Sure
it's
a sharpie instead of a Coop?)

No matter what, it's unreasonable to ask birds to be something other than
what they are. The raptors are predators. The passerines are seed foragers.
Like so many others, you have created a perfectly natural situation for
both
of these groups of birds. Yes, if you stop feeding the passerines, the
hawks
will go elsewhere for their livelihood. And so will the passerines.

You, then, will be the party absent from the several natural spectacles of
nature you have created. The fact is that for many centuries, even
millennia,
there were no bird feeders. Birds had to fend for themselves, even the
hawks.
Bird feeders are not really for birds. They are for birdwatchers, who like
to
see birds up close. Nothing wrong with that.

I encourage you to continue feeding your birds. But instead of lamenting
the
predation of the hawks, take a higher delight in noting it for what it is,
a
natural process. The hawks feeding at your feeder will take birds
elsewhere,
especially the sharpie. Sharpies eat only birds. What is happening at your
feeder is the way nature really is. You have been blessed to observe this
greater natural phenomenon of a raptor doing its thing.

Biologically, there is a marked abundance of small birds for hawks to eat.
Hawks never consume even the smallest fraction of the prey animals in their
territories. There are plenty of birds for the hawks to eat. Nature is
never
concerned about the survival of individual members of a species, only the
population in general. And you can rejoice that things are now OK for
redtails and sharpies. Neither species is endangered. Both continue to
thrive, in the manner you have noted at your feeder.

You have been able to both provide for, and witness, one of nature's rarest
events -- the taking of prey species by a healthy raptor at the peak of its
capabilities. Any one can feed dickey birds. But to provide for the welfare
of a pair of regal raptors is a particular honor, one infrequently provided
to those who authentically love nature.

Seize the moment here. Take a deep breath, and marvel at the ways of two of
North America's greatest species.

Sincerely,

John A. Blakeman

Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 20:28:51 -0500 (EST)
From: hubertrap"at"webtv.net (Joe Huber)
To: FJR4th"at"aol.com, BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Hawks at the feeder

Hello Fred and all, Think others have answered your question about Hawks at your feeders. Your habitat surrounding your yard is apparently suitable for Hawks. I also believe they will leave when the weather changes. They are getting food somewhere so this lets you see it. About the Bluebirds in a roost box not letting one in. Having had roosting bluebirds in Ohio for 20 years I've seen that a few times. The times I watched closely that one bird came darting in at dark and stayed. Joe Huber Venice Fl.

Charter member NABS,
Charter member OBS,
Life member OBS
Joe Huber
hubertrap"at"webtv.net

http://community.webtv.net/hubertrap/HOUSESPARROWCONTROL
http://community.webtv.net/hubertrap/RoostingBluebirds

Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 22:04:39 -0500
From: "Fawzi P. Emad femad <at> fpemad <dot> com
To: dsheldonjr"at"hotmail.com
Cc: BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Redtails at the feeder -- feeding on the birds to be fed.

John and Dean, thank you so much for putting my mind at ease! John Blakeman thank you from all of us. I love the little seed eaters, but I know the hawk needs to eat too. The hawk never hurt the balance of nature. Again, thanks...

Fawzi Emad, Laytonsville, Maryland

----- Original Message -----

From: dean sheldon dsheldonjr"at"hotmail.com
To: BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Cc: jblakeman"at"aol.com
Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2000 8:11 PM
Subject: Fwd: Redtails at the feeder -- feeding on the birds to be fed.

...

I've been lurking out here for quite some time now and I'm fairly new to nestbox trail construction and monitoring. I haven't had to post any questions yet since most of them have usually been answered by the time I think of them. Now I finally have a question that I need advice on.   A little background information first. I live in Norwalk, IA which is just south of Des Moines and have a nestbox trail in Cumming, IA about 5 miles west of my house. I put up and monitored my first nestbox two years ago to see what would happen. Up until that point I had never seen an Eastern Bluebird and didn't even know they were around my area. I had success with my first box and fledged two sets of Eastern Bluebirds. Needless to say, I became hooked. Last year I expanded my trail to eight boxes and fledged Bluebirds and Tree Swallows. This year I received permission to expand my trail onto 100+ acres of low-growing CRP grass containing nice little clumps of trees and shrubs scattered about. I constructed and put up 15 NABS-style boxes at the end of February and I should have 15 Peterson boxes finished and ready to put up this weekend. I'm planning on pairing some of the boxes and I have subscribed to the CNBN to submit results this year. I have also been a NABS member for two years now.

When I was putting up my nestboxes last month I noticed a large hawk's nest at the top of a tree towards the back end of my trail area. Last weekend I observed a Red-Tailed Hawk in the nest so I think it is going to be used this year again. I am concerned about potential predation on my boxes by the hawks since several of my boxes are within sight of the hawk's nest. Should I be concerned about this?? Are Red-Tails able to get at the parents or nestlings for an easy meal?? Do I need to relocate my boxes after all the hard work I put into designing my trail, making the boxes, and getting permission to install them?? Am I overly-worried about all of this??

I appreciate any advice that any of you can give to me. I have learned so much from this list which I have utilized when designing my trail and boxes. I just hope it is not a problem!!

Thanks much---

Jay Gilliam
Norwalk, IA

Jay,

I'm not sure about this so maybe someone on the list can verify it, but I think that Red-tails prefer larger prey such as squirrels and rabbits. I think the Sharp-shinned and Coopers Hawk prey more on our song birds. If this is true, I would say leave your trails up because you're still providing a habitat the bluebirds wouldn't have without you. Good luck!

Cathy
Middlesex, NJ

Yes, but if none of those critters are around they will go after birds. Bluebirds can be too fast for them. They will most likely take robins, red wings, grackles and larger birds. They will rarely catch a bluebird. So my advice is to keep it up! kevin bloom

...

Kevin Putman, Yuba City, CA

Koby: The owls aren't likely after your bluebirds. It was probably just perching on the pole, taking a break or listening for rodents. Could you tell what species it was? If it was a cavity-nesting species--screech or barn owl--it may have been investigating the nestbox, trying to figure out how to fit through the hole. You might consider putting up an owl box or two to see what happens. KP

...

Jay:

I think your question has pretty much been answered, but thought I'd put in my 2 cents. I have several types of hawks that nest on my property or nearby. I can almost always hear a hawk's call during the summer months. The larger hawks do prefer small mammal or rodents, although they will take a bird if they can get it. Don't relocate your boxes because of a RedTailed Hawk. I did watch with dismay last year when a Red Tail raided an open nest made by a Robin. He returned several times, pretty much ignoring the dive-bombing adult Robins; I fear that he may have cleaned out the nest. But of course he has to eat, too. I don't think they'd have much luck in chasing down and capturing a Bluebird unless they could catch it on the ground, and it would be pretty difficult (?impossible) for them to get into a nestbox for nestlings. Just enjoy the diversity of the birds, including the hawks, and keep up the good work.

Wendy Guglieri
Rescue, California
-in the foothills of the Sierra Nevada mountains 40 mi. East of Sacramento-

Susan Brownell
Southern Adirondacks

This afternoon I found a dead owl in a grove of pines behind my house. I have identified it as a Northern Saw-Whet Owl (Aegolius acadicus). I have never seen one around here before, but I definitely want to encourage them, and help them to nest, and according to the Peterson CD, they will accept a nestbox.

Can anyone send me information (or tell me where to look) on size of box, opening for this type of owl. This type of owl is small....only about 7" long. Thanks

Susan,

For the Saw-Whet Owl, the floor should be 7x7in., interior height of box should be about 12in., for the whole 2 1/2in. Mount the box about 8-20ft. Good luck on getting them to nest in your nestbox.

...

For Susan, I had owls for several years in a row, though none lately. I covered my house with bark (small nails) that fell off the logs I burned in my stove. My newer box is not covered and I haven't had an owl since. I also don't have the woodburner anymore.

Lynn near Reading Pa

...

Tonight when I got home from work, I was out in the backyard watering the flowers. Both mom and dad bluebird were out there with me, eating the mealworms I'd just put out. They were having a tough time of it, with the mockingbirds constantly chasing them away, when all of a sudden I heard a big fuss and looked up just in time to see a Red Tailed Hawk swoop down and pluck a bird right out of the sky. Two other birds immediately flew after him. I couldn't tell which bird had gotten caught, or which ones were flying after him because it was just getting dark out and it all happened so fast. I was really upset, afraid he had gotten one of the blues. I whistled for them for ten minutes and they didn't come. I was so upset, I can't even tell you all. I went inside to try to take my mind off of it, but went out again 15 minutes later and whistled for them again. This time, both mom and dad appeared. I was so relieved! But still upset for the little bird that had gotten caught. I know this kind of thing goes on in nature all the time, but I'd prefer not to be a witness to it. Anyway, I'm almost certain it was the blues that went after the hawk, but not 100% positive. Would they really be that aggressive? I know it wasn't one of their babies, they are still up in the trees on the other side of my house, having just fledged 10 days ago. Anyway, I just had to share. Thanks for listening!

Erin
Alpharetta, GA

Erin,

I may be a little biased because I'm a raptorphile. I love hawks. Yes, I feel bad for the prey, but the hawk has to eat, too. I was fascinated last year with a Sharp-shinned Hawk in my yard that took two Starlings, one of which put up quite a fierce battle.

In your case, I think you probably had a Sharp-shinned Hawk or a Cooper's Hawk instead of a Red-tailed. Swooping through a yard to take a small bird is not a Red-tail's style. They are too large and slow-moving for this maneuver, whereas the Sharpie or Cooper's is built for speed and agility. Also, Red-tails usually prey on field mice and other rodents, while the accipiters' main food source IS small birds.

Brenda
--
Brenda Best
Durhamville, NY
(between Syracuse and Utica)
jabbest"at"dreamscape.com

The Nature Club of Central New York
http://natureclubofcny.8m.com/

...

Bill Darnell, Savannah, TN
Lat: 35:18:32.407N
Lon 88:10:31.368W
Ag Zone 7-8

Brenda and all:

I just saw a drama unfold from the back deck across the pond a couple of days ago, involving a red tail. I was watching my delightful new martin colony, when a movement caught my eye near the woods. A red tail had silently glided out of the timber and lit in an oak. No sooner had the bough bent a little, when two fiesty king birds attacked him. It was a sight to behold! I am telling you, they were in his tail feathers when I last saw him as he clear a fence row some distance away.

Consider yourself lucky if you have these fiesty tyrants around! They seem to see a predator long before a martin or bluebird does. They are always in the scramble and fight mode! They love to harass purple martins, and a martin is no match for the king birds aerobatics, but I have never known of any harm to come. When the short fight is over, life goes on just as if it never occurred.

You are right, red tails are mostly rodent takers, but have been know to nail purple martins while they are on the ground gathering nesting materiel, or fighting in a nest dispute. Martins are extremely slow on the take off.

Bill

...

Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 20:43:32 -0700
From: Linda Violett lviolett"at"earthlink.net
To: "Bluebird-L"at"cornell.edu" Bluebird-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Kestrels/Box Depth

Chris, your post about Kestrals stealing nestlings is similar to a jay that took a runt from one of my boxes several weeks ago (1st clutch). All future boxes I build will be at least 8.5" deep from the bottom of the holes to the floor. My boxes are built 6" wide so the extra depth doesn't seem to be an obstacle to the western bluebirds on my trail.

I thought a 7.5" depth from the bottom of the holes to the floor would protect the nestlings from large predator birds . . . almost but not quite. The jay that got the runt from the first clutch was continually around the nestbox during the 2nd bluebird nesting. Apparently, it couldn't snatch the eggs or newl-hatched chicks because of this 7.5" depth. However, last Saturday I found all nestlings still in the box but dead. Many tiny tears on their naked skins as if a sharp beak had tried to pull them out but ended up nipping them to death.

...

Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 13:24:30 -0500
From: Laurie DeMott demotlj"at"infoblvd.net
To: BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Hawk problems

Since I live in western NY and all of my houses are covered with several inches of snow, this is a question that will not need to be answered for a while, but I thought you might give me a head start on a solution.

Last summer, I had a pair of bluebirds nest in a new Peterson box on my property. They began nesting quite late and the female always seemed hesitant going into the box, so much so that I measured the hole several times to make sure it wasn't too small. The hole was the same size as another box which had been used successfully by bluebirds for years, so I decided that maybe the female was just inexperienced and since she was nesting, I'd leave the box alone.

Unfortunately, about a week before the nestlings fledging date, a hawk swooped down and took the female off of the box as she was entering. (I witnessed the event.) I waited for an hour and saw no sign of the male, so I had to assume that the hawk had also gotten the male earlier in the day. The good news was that I was able to get the four nestlings to a rehabber who successfully raised them but I'm unsure of how to proceed next year. I don't know whether this was an isolated incident or whether I need to change the placement of the house and/or the hole size.

I've never had hawk problems in the 10 years I've had bluebirds. Anyone have any experience, suggestions, or thoughts?

Laurie DeMott
Alfred, NY

Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 17:47:41 -0800
From: Linda Violett lviolett"at"earthlink.net
To: "bluebird-l"at"cornell.edu" bluebird-l"at"cornell.edu, Bluebird"at"fsinc.com
Subject: Re: Hawk problems

Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif.

Laurie, good question for the slow off-season months while there is plenty of time to better prepare for the upcoming season. Assuming your box is a post mounted box in a clearing, you might want to consider hanging your nestbox under the canopy of a tree next year.

A box tucked up under a tree canopy has more visual protection from winged predators. And, if you place it up and under droopy limbs (like a weeping willow or Calif. pepper tree). Any hawks that know about the nest will still have a harder time executing a straight-in-swoop surprise attack.

I find it simply amazing that bluebirds using post-mounted boxes . . . out in the open for all predators to view . . . do as well as they do.

As previously posted, I compiled a dbase of site stats one year and found that the most successful boxes on my hanging trail had 2 features in common: 1) hawks in the area 2) more shade than sun (which could mean cooler and/or more hidden).

Laurie DeMott wrote:

Unfortunately, about a week before the nestlings fledging date, a hawk
swooped down and took the female off of the box as she was entering. (I
witnessed the event.) I waited for an hour and saw no sign of the male, so
I had to assume that the hawk had also gotten the male earlier in the day.
I've never had hawk problems in the 10 years I've had bluebirds. Anyone
have any experience, suggestions, or thoughts?

Laurie DeMott
Alfred, NY

Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 21:13:32 EST
From: Dinlows"at"aol.com
To: demotlj"at"infoblvd.net, BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Hawk problems

Hello All,

Funny that you mentioned having hawk problems, as I am now beginning to see hawks also. When I did my PFW last weekend the first thing I saw was a Cooper's Hawk and then right away I sighted the Red Tail Hawk. I have to admit I am concerned for the coming BB season. I will be interested to know if there are ways to protect the BB's.

Linda - Ind.

Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 21:19:57 EST
From: Dinlows"at"aol.com
To: lviolett"at"earthlink.net, bluebird-l"at"cornell.edu, Bluebird"at"fsinc.com
Subject: Re: [Bluebird] Hawk problems

I thought that when you placed the box it shouldn't be under a tree, but in close proximity due to HOSP problems???

Linda - Ind.

Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 21:34:45 EST
From: KCBSP"at"aol.com
To: lviolett"at"earthlink.net
Cc: Bluebird-L"at"cornell.edu, bluebird"at"fsinc.com
Subject: Re: [Bluebird] Hawk problems and ????BEARS?????

In a Message dated 12/7/00 8:41:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, lviolett"at"earthlink.net writes:

As previously posted, I compiled a dbase of site stats one year and
found that the most successful boxes on my hanging trail had 2 features
in common: 1) hawks in the area 2) more shade than sun (which could
mean cooler and/or more hidden).
e

Linda, have these boxes ever been used by anyone.. yours or a hanging style, to prevent destruction from bears?

Kathy Clark, New Cumberland, PA

P.S. I promise to post my hanging box report. It's finished but not in my hands currently.

Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 23:00:29 -0500
From: "G & C Statton" statton"at"toolcity.net
To: "BLUEBIRD-L" bluebird-l"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Hawk Problem

Chris Statton
NW PA

Thanks, Laurie, for raising the hawk question. The worst here is the Sharpshin (not uncommon, from what I understand). But, contrary to suggestions of 'cover' for protection, that very protective cover has been the sharpie's greatest assistant here. A couple of years ago, a sharpie got every bluebird fledgling of three out of four nestings in the yard by just flying right into the tree to which the baby blues had just fledged. (I'd reached a point of starting to think that this sharpie had a calendar in its nest marking the expected date of each fledging - just like clockwork it would show up in the evening of each fledging day, swooping with a hawk's usually lightening speed.) That sassle-frassen hawk would just pick them off the limbs one-by-one, flying them to the ground to eat them and then heading back up into to the tree for the next. Unfortunately, by the time I caught sight of it (on the second family), it was on the last fledgling and all my sprint across the yard got me was six little feather piles on the ground. (I 've even had the displeasure of actually finding a sharpie sleeping in the hedges that are supposed to be the near-by cover for my seed-eating birds.) I have a brush-pile 'sanctuary' and have watched that (expletive deleted) sharpie actually walking all over and around it peering into it - as if looking for the best spot for it to sneak in. Accipiters, raptors, buteos, etc., are magnificent and valuable birds, but given that I have never (maybe others have) seen a sharpie ever take even a single HOSP or starling, their attacks on defenseless baby birds is most distressing. I dare say the bluebird population around here would be incredibly stronger if it weren't for sharpshins. I have yet to have a sharpie swoop a nestbox, but have had a kestrel hang onto a box front trying to pick near-fledging tree swallow babies from the entrance hole. A zillion adult TRES and one sprinting human foiled that effort. I've searched - unsuccessfully - for years for a truly effective hawk-deterrent. Basically, I've repeatedly been told to provide cover or to totally discourage birds being in the yard ... my search continues. :-)

I do still agree that cover is a useful provision. I've relayed this information of the situation here solely to bring out another perspective that 'cover' isn't always a peace-of-mind protection against hawks.

Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 09:34:53 -0500
From: Laurie DeMott demotlj"at"infoblvd.net
To: bluebird-l"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Hawk problems

At 05:47 PM 12/7/2000 -0800, you wrote:

Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif.

Laurie, good question for the slow off-season months while there is
plenty of time to better prepare for the upcoming season. Assuming your
box is a post mounted box in a clearing, you might want to consider
hanging your nestbox under the canopy of a tree next year.

Ironically, I had deliberately moved my nesting box away from trees because of wren problems.

I guess I can't entirely protect my bluebirds from all the threats of nature, but I do think I'll at least move the doomed box of last year to another place on my property in case hawks have long memories.

Laurie DeMott
Alfred, NY
demotlj"at"infoblvd.net

Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 19:18:20 -0800
From: "judymellin" judymellin"at"netzero.net
To: "Bluebird"at"fsinc.com" bluebird"at"fsinc.com, "BLUEBIRD-L" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: feeding more than we plan!

We have all got to realize that we are providing a delicatessen for all creatures with backyard feeding stations and nestboxes. Think about the food chain and the hierarchy of the birds and you'll know that this is what happens. Hawks will find spots to sit and "poach" birds because they are higher on the food chain that any of our feeder birds and these same hawks will bring their offspring for a "free meal" once they know where popular feeders and boxes are. This is nature at its finest and has gone on for many more years than any of us will.

We cannot pick and choose who is in our yards or who we feed, voluntarily or involuntarily. Unfortunately, the only way to completely avoid this problem is to take down your feeders and boxes. You cannot "unteach" hawk behavior nor should anyone try. Hawks will be hawks and we ain't gonna change them.

Judy Mellin

Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 18:15:36 -0800
From: Linda Violett lviolett"at"earthlink.net
To: statton"at"toolcity.net, "bluebird-l"at"cornell.edu" bluebird-l"at"cornell.edu,Bluebird"at"fsinc.com
Subject: Re: Hawk Problem

Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif

Chris, your bluebird fledglings actually stay in one tree after the fledge while they all get picked off by the hawk one by one?? The bluebird parents aren't moving the survivors elsewhere?

Hawks, certainly, will take advantage of inexperienced fledglings when given the opportunity. But, the western blues on my trail are quick to start moving fledglings away from the nestbox and into hiding even while there are still siblings in the nestbox waiting to fledge.

Maybe your birds are leaving the nest a little prematurely. What is the floor-to-hole drop of your boxes? Perhaps you could make your boxes a few inches deeper so the nestlings must be a little stronger to reach the hole before taking the leap. A deeper box should also help protect nestlings from predators/hawks.

G & C Statton wrote:

Chris Statton
NW PA

A couple of years ago, a sharpie got
every bluebird fledgling of three out of four nestings in the yard by just
flying right into the tree to which the baby blues had just fledged. - just like clockwork it
would show up in the evening of each fledging day, swooping with a hawk's
usually lightening speed.) That sassle-frassen hawk would just pick them off
the limbs one-by-one, flying them to the ground to eat them and then heading
back up into to the tree for the next.

I have yet to have a sharpie swoop a nestbox, but have had a

kestrel hang onto a box front trying to pick near-fledging tree swallow
babies from the entrance hole.

Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 08:49:49 -0600
From: "Keith & Sandy Kridler" kridler"at"1starnet.com
To: "BLUEBIRD-L" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: bluebirds & predators

Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas

Hawks & owls: We have had the same pairs of red tailed and great horned owls at our house for several years at a time. I don't know about sharp shinned or Coopers coming back year after year. Depending on the local population of nest boxes, predators will learn how to hunt the most abundant species. In years of large rodent population explosions predators tend to home in on these creatures. The same applies to them learning how to feed from nest boxes. Ask anyone who ever had a raccoon problem how frustrating this can be across several miles of a trail.

Many trails and counties can grow a population of bluebirds (fledging rate) at a four fold increase per year until the area is totally saturated in nestboxes. At some point no matter how many more boxes you place you cannot fledge more birds and this will be mostly due to local predators learning to raid boxes with eggs and young and then feed on young fledged birds. They will take their toll of adult birds feeding to the same box location and pick off the adults thus ending that line of multiplication for that nesting year.

Same goes for blowfly or other nestling parasites. The hawk feeding on a bluebird in your line of sight just reminds us that it has to eat and if not a bluebird then a red bird or junco would have been taken. Just because we attract large numbers of seed eaters to our yard and then a predator (cat, snake, hawk etc.) comes along and we see it feeding does not mean that if we remove our feeders that the hawk (or other predators) will quit eating birds!

The same goes for nestboxes. It would be good in this slow time to have some of the states that have been keeping records for a long time to list the last several years of fledgling numbers and also the total box numbers. Most old time bluebirding states will probably show a stagnant growth of fledgling numbers if the same trails are checked that have been used for 8 years or more. Most increases in bluebirds fledgling numbers will come from an increase in box numbers reported. A relatively new bluebird operation like in Nebraska will show larger increases than say Minnesota or New York where bluebirding has been going on for quite a few years. I expect Nebraska to top out in about 8 years and their numbers of fledged bluebirds to level off instead of increasing each year.

An old trail may have a record increase in numbers IF a change to a predator proof pole and nestboxes are switched too but then again level off as predation evens out the population once they leave the box. It is up to us to observe and place boxes where the least danger exists. If 9 out of ten boxes with bluebirds are destroyed by House Wrens near brushy areas then losing one out of ten boxes to a hawk with boxes mounted out in the open would be a better use of nestboxes. Each person needs to evaluate his/her situation and be prepared to change from year to year or at least experiment.

My trail is about 27 miles long north to south and 37 miles wide east to west. Some 300 boxes are spread out over about 130 miles of roads so a family of hawks feeding on bluebirds in a couple of square miles will have little impact on the whole trail. If you spread a large number of boxes over a wide area you increase the odds of bluebirds surviving and prospering in safe micro habitats. Example 1,000 back yard birders will raise more bluebirds with one box each than one bluebirder with 1,000 boxes. It just seems worse when one of these people lose 100% of their bluebirds but overall this is a small percentage. You hear a lot about one person winning a $38 million dollar lottery but not the other 37,999,999 who had a total 100% loss. KK

Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 09:17:28 -0500
From: Dan & Rachel Thomas racheldan1"at"compuserve.com
To: BLUEBIRD BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: OWL decoy

Dan Thomas
New Providence PA

I have a 85 yr. old neighbor lady that spends alot of time sitting on her front porch. She has a large open yard which I thought would be ideal for a bluebird box. I stopped by and offered to install a box for her, (June, 2000) and she agreed. 3 days later I stopped by and she was SO excited that she had bluebirds visiting and checking out the box. They later built a nest, with 4 eggs, then the house sparrows came and took over the box. I offered to give her a trap to eliminate the sparrows, but she didn't want to do that. She did continue to reomve the sparrows nest as soon as they started building. Being very frustrated with the agressive sparrow she finally removed the box and installed a large "owl decoy" which she hopes will chase the sparrows away. I'm going to suggest she install the box again next month. Question is, Will the owl decoy keep the Bluebirds away?   Thanks! (getting rain, sleet, and snow, in PA)

Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 09:59:17 -0500
From: "Bruce Burdett" blueburd"at"srnet.com
To: racheldan1"at"compuserve.com
Cc: BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: OWL decoy

Dan,

I would CERTAINLY put up a second Bluebird box, 15' from the first, just as a preliminary measure. Last year I had a similar situation (ALL my boxes are paired) and I tried puncturing the end of each House Sparrow egg with a pin. It worked well. The sparrows didn't bother the Bluebirds next door, they went on sitting on the dead eggs, and they finally gave up. No traps. No gunfire. No azzzults on the Bluebirds. No new sparrows chicks. Some people, I'm told, hardboil the sparrow eggs, but I haven't tried that. I'm thinking about putting a big hard-boiled Extra Jumbo hen's egg in with the sparrow eggs. That might at least get their attention, and at least they couldn't throw it out. Who knows? It might even give them nervous breakdowns.

My guess is that the owl decoy WOULD scare off the Bluebirds. It would scare ME off if I were a Bluebird.

Bruce Burdett, SW NH, NH Bluebird Conspiracy
blueburd"at"srnet.com

----- Original Message -----

From: "Dan & Rachel Thomas" racheldan1"at"compuserve.com
To: "BLUEBIRD" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2001 9:17 AM
Subject: OWL decoy

Dan Thomas
New Providence PA

I have a 85 yr. old neighbor lady that spends alot of time sitting on her
front porch. She has a large open yard which I thought would be ideal for
a bluebird box. I stopped by and offered to install a box for her, (June,
2000) and she agreed. 3 days later I stopped by and she was SO excited
that she had bluebirds visiting and checking out the box. They later built
a nest, with 4 eggs, then the house sparrows came and took over the box. I
offered to give her a trap to eliminate the sparrows, but she didn't want
to do that. She did continue to reomve the sparrows nest as soon as they
started building. Being very frustrated with the agressive sparrow she
finally removed the box and installed a large "owl decoy" which she hopes
will chase the sparrows away. I'm going to suggest she install the box
again next month. Question is, Will the owl decoy keep the Bluebirds away?
Thanks! (getting rain, sleet, and snow, in PA)

Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 10:19:44 -0500
From: "Katherine S. Wolfthal" kate"at"nirvana.weichi.com
Cc: BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: OWL decoy

Bruce Burdett wrote:

My guess is that the owl decoy WOULD scare off the Bluebirds. It would
scare ME off if I were a Bluebird.

Question is, Will the owl decoy keep the Bluebirds
away?
Thanks! (getting rain, sleet, and snow, in PA)

I imagine that if it would scare one bird, it would scare them all. However, from what I have read (no personal experience with this), decoys work only for a limited period of time. As soon as the birds realize the decoy is fake, they return. In order for a decoy to work, it would have to behave like a real owl (i.e., it would have to move, call, etc.). So it might scare a newcomer to the area but the resident birds, both HOSP and EABL, would probably become accustomed to it and go about their business as usual.

--
Katherine
Weston, MA

Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 12:24:48 -0400
From: Haleya Priest mablue"at"gis.net
To: blueburd"at"srnet.com, MA BLUE MaBlue"at"gis.net
Cc: racheldan1"at"compuserve.com, BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: OWL decoy House sparrows :-(

Haleya Priest Amherst MA

DO NOT read this if you don't agree with trapping house sparrows.

Dear Dan, et al,

Besides Bruce's ideas, you could also try using a Gilbertson PVC sparrow resistant box, (I've had very good results from these boxes) the 2-hole mansion, (Linda Violett) or monofiliment lines (Barry Whitney) along the front of the box. Dan, you've probably thought of these other things, but I think they are worth mentioning:   Another thing to consider is whether she has bird feeders up. If so, she should either take the feeders down or switch to thistle seed feeders which do not attract house sparrows.   However, when all is said and done, it is better NOT to have a nest box up at all than harbor house sparrows to the point where the bluebirds loose more eggs than number of babies successfully fledged. In that case, it is more gracious to allow the bluebirds to go nest where it is safe for them.   Many are unwilling to trap sparrows at first, but over time learn the necessity of eliminating house sparrows. None of us enjoy the task, but understand how important it is. Perhaps she'll come to allow you to trap over time. Once someone sees babies pecked to death by a house sparrow are usually convinced of the need to trap. For sites where I trap, If I do it when the people aren't watching that helps...... they know it is happening, but if they don't have to "see" it happen, then they are ok with it. However, I've had people who were squeamish about it, start trapping for me once they've seen the necessity!

Elderly women, depending on their health and mobility, can even learn to eliminate house sparrows! When I went to buy my air gun, I was told by the gun store that they've had plenty of elderly women who come in to buy guns to shoot squirrels. Likewise, learning to actively protect our "brood of bluebirds" gives many of us great meaning in our lives.

Good luck!

Haleya Priest

Bruce Burdett wrote:

Dan,
I would CERTAINLY put up a second Bluebird box, 15' from the first, just
as a preliminary measure. Last year I had a similar situation (ALL my boxes
are paired) and I tried puncturing the end of each House Sparrow egg with a
pin. It worked well. The sparrows didn't bother the Bluebirds next door,
they went on sitting on the dead eggs, and they finally gave up. No traps.
No gunfire. No azzzults on the Bluebirds. No new sparrows chicks. Some
people, I'm told, hardboil the sparrow eggs, but I haven't tried that. I'm
thinking about putting a big hard-boiled Extra Jumbo hen's egg in with the
sparrow eggs. That might at least get their attention, and at least they
couldn't throw it out. Who knows? It might even give them nervous
breakdowns.
My guess is that the owl decoy WOULD scare off the Bluebirds. It would
scare ME off if I were a Bluebird.
Bruce Burdett, SW NH, NH Bluebird Conspiracy
blueburd"at"srnet.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan & Rachel Thomas" racheldan1"at"compuserve.com
To: "BLUEBIRD" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2001 9:17 AM
Subject: OWL decoy

Dan Thomas
New Providence PA

I have a 85 yr. old neighbor lady that spends alot of time sitting on her
front porch. She has a large open yard which I thought would be ideal for
a bluebird box. I stopped by and offered to install a box for her, (June,
2000) and she agreed. 3 days later I stopped by and she was SO excited
that she had bluebirds visiting and checking out the box. They later
built
a nest, with 4 eggs, then the house sparrows came and took over the box.
I
offered to give her a trap to eliminate the sparrows, but she didn't want
to do that. She did continue to reomve the sparrows nest as soon as they
started building. Being very frustrated with the agressive sparrow she
finally removed the box and installed a large "owl decoy" which she hopes
will chase the sparrows away. I'm going to suggest she install the box
again next month. Question is, Will the owl decoy keep the Bluebirds
away?
Thanks! (getting rain, sleet, and snow, in PA)

Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 12:32:49 -0400
From: Haleya Priest mablue"at"gis.net
To: racheldan1"at"compuserve.com, BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: OWL decoy House sparrows :-(

Haleya Priest Amherst MA

Dan, et al,

One other thing. The fact that she is actively throwing out the nests and using a owl decoy tells me she is very interested in participating in protecting the blues, rather than being passive and just "wishing for the best".

My point is that even if it doesn't work, it might be good to let HER find out how it doesn't work. Then she might be more willing to try other ideas.   I know that when I first learned to bluebird I did NOT for the life of me want to trap and kill a HOSP. I used to run out every time to scare the HOSP away. I tried everything other than the inevitable. But, it wasn't until the HOSP was about to do real damage that I HAD to take that step and decide to destroy the HOSP.

So, these "hit or miss" solutions might lead her to coming up with a sparrow elimination process that NONE of us have ever thought of!!! :-)

Haleya

Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 10:34:17 -0600
From: "Sharon Peregrine Johnson" shajohns"at"eramp.net
To: blueburd"at"srnet.com, racheldan1"at"compuserve.com
Cc: BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: OWL decoy

This has worked for me.

At first, I tried destroying the nest every time the sparrows would build it (eggs and all). However, they would either come back or move to another birdhouse. So I decided that this was not a good solution and would threaten the bluebird's nest. Instead I simply removed the eggs and eventually the sparrows left without harming the bluebird nest.

This behavior also occurred in the Purple Martin House, and I was able to deter the sparrows by removing the eggs. The other reason that I had problems last summer is that a neighbor was putting out bird seed and it attracted the sparrows. He has stopped this and I am hoping that it will alleviate the problem some.

Sharon Peregrine Johnson

----- Original Message -----

From: Bruce Burdett blueburd"at"srnet.com
To: racheldan1"at"compuserve.com
Cc: BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2001 8:59 AM
Subject: Re: OWL decoy

Dan,
I would CERTAINLY put up a second Bluebird box, 15' from the first, just
as a preliminary measure. Last year I had a similar situation (ALL my boxes
are paired) and I tried puncturing the end of each House Sparrow egg with a
pin. It worked well. The sparrows didn't bother the Bluebirds next door,
they went on sitting on the dead eggs, and they finally gave up. No traps.
No gunfire. No azzzults on the Bluebirds. No new sparrows chicks. Some
people, I'm told, hardboil the sparrow eggs, but I haven't tried that. I'm
thinking about putting a big hard-boiled Extra Jumbo hen's egg in with the
sparrow eggs. That might at least get their attention, and at least they
couldn't throw it out. Who knows? It might even give them nervous
breakdowns.
My guess is that the owl decoy WOULD scare off the Bluebirds. It would
scare ME off if I were a Bluebird.
Bruce Burdett, SW NH, NH Bluebird Conspiracy
blueburd"at"srnet.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan & Rachel Thomas" racheldan1"at"compuserve.com
To: "BLUEBIRD" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2001 9:17 AM
Subject: OWL decoy


Dan Thomas
New Providence PA

I have a 85 yr. old neighbor lady that spends alot of time sitting on her
front porch. She has a large open yard which I thought would be ideal for
a bluebird box. I stopped by and offered to install a box for her, (June,
2000) and she agreed. 3 days later I stopped by and she was SO excited
that she had bluebirds visiting and checking out the box. They later
built
a nest, with 4 eggs, then the house sparrows came and took over the box.
I
offered to give her a trap to eliminate the sparrows, but she didn't want
to do that. She did continue to reomve the sparrows nest as soon as they
started building. Being very frustrated with the agressive sparrow she
finally removed the box and installed a large "owl decoy" which she hopes
will chase the sparrows away. I'm going to suggest she install the box
again next month. Question is, Will the owl decoy keep the Bluebirds
away?
Thanks! (getting rain, sleet, and snow, in PA)

Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 12:44:16 -0600
From: Kathleen Oschwald nestbox"at"1starnet.com
To: Bluebird-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Kestrels

This winter I have seen a lot of kestrels in the area, as well as more larger raptors than I have seen in years past. In the evening one kestrel has taken to sitting on the power line going to the barn, which is normally the favorite perch of a family of bluebirds. Needless to say, they do not use this perch in the evenings, but he is not there in the mornings, so they use it at that time.

I love kestrels as much as I love bluebirds, and hope that the kestrel lives up to his old nickname of "sparrow hawk" and leaves the bluebirds alone. However if one of my blues becomes part of the food chain, I can accept that. I will simply do my part to help fledge some replacements.

Kate Oschwald
Sumner, TX
100 mi NE of Dallas

Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 17:15:32 -0800
From: "judymellin" judymellin"at"netzero.net
To: nestbox"at"1starnet.com, Bluebird-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Kestrels

The kestrels on my site use our bluebird nestboxes to clean their prey so I frequently find fresh entrails on the roofs of the boxes when I monitor. I was quite startled to see a female tree swallow entering and leaving a box to feed her young while a kestrel was perched right on top! I guess her instinct to mother her young was stronger than the kestrel's desire for food- or else she knew the kestrel was full from his recent lunch!

Judy Mellin
NE IL.

----- Original Message -----

From: Kathleen Oschwald nestbox"at"1starnet.com
To: Bluebird-L"at"cornell.edu
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 10:44 AM
Subject: Kestrels

This winter I have seen a lot of kestrels in the area, as well as more
larger raptors than I have seen in years past. In the evening one kestrel
has taken to sitting on the power line going to the barn, which is normally
the favorite perch of a family of bluebirds. Needless to say, they do not
use this perch in the evenings, but he is not there in the mornings, so
they use it at that time.

I love kestrels as much as I love bluebirds, and hope that the kestrel
lives up to his old nickname of "sparrow hawk" and leaves the bluebirds
alone. However if one of my blues becomes part of the food chain, I can
accept that. I will simply do my part to help fledge some replacements.
Kate Oschwald
Sumner, TX
100 mi NE of Dallas

Hawks/Owls as cavity nesters or as problems on the bluebird trail (Part 2)