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Use of Grease for Predator Control on a Bluebird TrailIn addition to Messages that have appeared in the Bluebird Mailing Lists on this topic, the following are on the Audubon Society of Omaha website: Predators and Problems On The Bluebird Trail Subj: RE: Predator control Subj: RE: Predator control Subj: Re: Predator control Subj: grease/oil contamination/fire ants Subj: RE: Predator control Subj: Re: grease/oil contamination/fire ants
Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 09:08:18 -0400 We are covered up with fire ants here in Northeast Georgia but since I use greased metal poles I have never seen a single ant on a nest box. And, there is nothing that attract ants better than sugar water in a hummingbird feeders. But I mount my humming bird feeders using the same greased metal poles I use for nest boxes. No ants will ever cross a 6 or 8 inch wide band of grease applied to a metal pole. The grease needs to be removed and reapplied annually in the spring. FOR NEST BOX POLES: The smoother metal poles are, and the fresher the grease is, the more unlikely any creature will be able to climb them. I use one inch EMT poles that cost only about $3.50 each for a ten foot length. These I pound directly into the ground which takes about 5 minutes. ( I now use the entire length of pole and that puts the box up about 8 and a half feet, but I used to cut the poles so the boxes were only 6 feet high The birds have yet to use one of the shorter poles since installing the taller ones.) When the first eggs are laid, I apply a band of grease onto the pole that stretches from about 6 inches from the ground up to about 3 feet above the ground. I don't gob it on but I do make it thick enough so it can be easily seen. Immediately after the birds fledge, wipe the grease off taking time to 'polish' the entire pole with the greasy rag. I do not try to leave grease behind. The intent is to remove the grease so it doesn't get hard making for a difficult job for the next nest attempt or the following year. But, when you are done 'polishing' the pole with the greasy rag, not only will it be smoother, but there will still be a slight invisible film left behind and this will help keep the galvanized finish smoother for more years of great service. Other than providing safe nesting sites for birds, one of the advantages of using this system is that you will always know if anything ever tries to climb the pole. I've heard claims that snakes have been trained to climb a greased metal pole for food, something I would love to see. But after being discouraged after years of removing many black snakes from nest boxes mounted on wooden posts, utility poles and high up in trees in both Pennsylvania and Georgia, I began using these greased metal poles. Not only have I never seen another snake in a nest box, but, it is quite obvious by looking at the condition of the greased poles, that nothing has ever even crossed the two and a half foot greased band at the bottom of the 6 foot or 8 foot metal pole. I don't know how you feel about 'your' birds. But it gives me an awesome feeling knowing that absolutely nothing ever goes from the ground up to one of my nest boxes. And, it gives me an even more awesome feeling knowing that if anything ever tries, I will know about it. Gary Springer Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 11:55:12 -0400 Gary Springer wrote: We are covered up with fire ants here in Northeast Georgia but
since I use Gary and everyone on the List, I have a question. I've read many notes about greasing poles, etc. for predator
prevention, but never have seen any comment about what happens
when grit gets caught in the I've also wondered about using something like paste wax instead of grease, since if I polished the wax, it would not collect grit. Since we have loads of raccoons, possum and black snakes, I'm constantly worried about them getting into the Gilbertson boxes that I have mounted on the conduit poles which I use. In the past, some predator, probably either a raccoon or black snake, wiped out a robin's nest (one that was move to a tree from a hanging basket when painters were painting the house) so I have confirmation that it can happen. Any comments would be appreciated. VMS Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 12:37:48 -0400 For the first year, I used black #2 grease on a 4" PVC pipe on the ground. It had to be applied 2 or 3 times a season because it dried and got full of dirt. Very messy, but effective. I used a wide texture paint brush to apply the grease and finished with horizontal brush strokes around the PVC pipe. I could see claw marks on every post which were vertical. Nothing ever got more than 1/2 way up. I replaced all guards 3 years ago with 2' PVC pipe, 4" diameter. I put 2 coats of Kit Wax (Carnuba) on each guard and suspended the guard from the top, just below the bird house to allow the bottom to wobble. Each spring all that is needed is to clean of the winter dirt and apply one coat of wax. I have never lost an egg or chick from ground predators. All
losses have been from HOSP and HOWR. I guess some areas of the
country have monster snakes that can reach the box by standing on
their tail, fortunately not here. Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 13:38:28 -0400 VMS wrote: Here where we live in Maryland, there is a lot of pollen, dirt,
etc. that seems would get caught in the grease and would give the
predators a "foot You will have this experience everywhere, not just in Maryland. That is why the grease is applied when the first egg is laid and removed after the birds fledge, a period of about 30 days. This process is repeated with each nesting so the grease can not get hard. Yes, if you leave the grease on for 10 months or longer, it may be easier for the predators to climb the pole than if you use no grease. But, if your grease is getting tacky after only 30 to 35 days, get a new brand of axle grease. When you get your oil changed, almost any lube service or service station will give you free of charge enough grease to treat 5 or more poles for one fledge each. Just provide them with a small jar or disposable cup. If they won't give it to you, offer them a tip or get your lube job done somewhere else. Gary Springer Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 13:49:00 -0400 When I wrote the post on instructions for greasing metal poles
I was sitting in front of my computer and estimated the width of
the greased band and When the first eggs are laid, I apply a band of grease onto the pole that stretches from about 6 inches from the ground up to about 3 feet above the ground. I just measured the width of grease on three of my nest box poles and found them to go up to a height of about 4 and a half feet. Therefore, please substitute "about 3 feet above the ground" to "4 and a half feet above the ground". Sorry, Gary Springer Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 14:48:16 -0400 Waxing nest box poles is not nearly effective for eliminating predators as is grease. First, I can't imagine a wax effective enough that would be able to make a galvanized pole slick enough to keep ants off the box. Second, if you use wax, I think a predator that knows for sure there are chicks in your nest box will try to get up to the nest box repeatedly. It may even come back for several days making repeated and separate attempts at climbing the pole. Animals are extremely persistent when food is within reach. And, eventually he may develop the strength or technique to successfully climb the pole, especially because he may have scraped some of the wax off with its claws. But, because predators just haven't fooled with the grease at all on my nest box trail, I am inclined to believe they do not like fooling with it. I can't blame them. I don't like it on my skin either. From what I am experiencing the animals are putting their nose to the grease and deciding right away it is something of which they want no part. These are smart animals. Can you imaging if you were a snake and got grease up under
your scales or if you were a raccoon and got it in the fir on your
arms, belly and neck? Would you keep on trying to climb a pole you
had to go up 6 or 8 feet to get a meal when you only made it three
feet and all you got was messy disgusting Third, If a snake or raccoon tries to, or successfully climbs a waxed pole and raids your nest box on the eve of the fledge date, you will never know. That is a huge disadvantage. One of the nicest parts of using axle grease on metal poles is that you will always know if something tries to climb the pole. You will also know if the creature was a mammal or a snake because of the type of marks it left in the grease. And, though as of this writing nothing has been able to pass the grease band by even 2 inches or even made more that a casual attempt, if something is successful in getting 2 or 3 inches above the grease band, you better believe I will put gobs of grease on the pole and the band will then be 6 feet wide, so if the predator comes around again, he will really get messy, messy enough to never want to even see any of my nest box poles again. Laura Agnel asked what kind of grease I use. I use a standard petroleum axle grease made by Exxon that is of a greenish tint. It is not a silicone grease. I had a friend apply a gray silicone grease to a nest box pole and it was left on the pole for a whole year and, as VMS described, it got just like sandpaper. But, because I never used this grease, I do not know if it would stay slick for 30 to 35 days or not. I would use whatever axle grease the lube service or service station where you take your car uses in their service bays. I'm sure if you asked BEFORE they serviced your car they would be glad to fill a small disposable cup for you. And, you just might get someone else involved with providing effective nest boxes for the birds. Gary Springer Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 08:16:21 -0500 Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas Grease on poles does get hard fairly quickly in some locations. Dust storms in the western states can render it useless in a single windblown day. Grease used where cattle can reach the poles will disappear as cattle relish the taste of this product. Adding hot pepper to the grease has no effect on deterring cattle licking the now "hot" grease. Dairy cattle ingesting axle grease MIGHT allow this compound to show up in the milk. (A dairy owner forbid Harry Krueger to apply ANY grease to the nestbox poles on the dairy where cattle could reach them.) Small children invariably end up with grease on them. Yard pets can rub low applied greasy poles and then lay on expensive furniture. You should use the cheap disposable plastic gloves to protect your skin when you apply this grease. To keep grease from hardening you should add 1 quart of gum turpentine (NOT mineral spirits) to 5 pounds of axle grease or about 6 fluid oz. turpentine to 1 pound of grease and this will stay soft for an extra month. (Harry Krueger of Ore City, Texas "non hardening" grease recipe to repel fire ants) A little more or a little less depending on brand of grease. Avoid lithium based grease as exposure to sun and dry winds creates lithium oxide and this is a toxic substance. Conical sheetmetal guards: When used to protect wood duck boxes they must be 48" in diameter as 36" diameter guards WILL NOT stop even the "small" southern breed of raccoons in Texas. These 48" guards are too large and expensive to be used on bluebird boxes. Wood duck boxes mounted to 120" (10 feet) tall 4" PVC pipe (mounting poles rigidly anchored) WILL NOT stop raccoons from climbing to the top and raiding wood duck boxes! One year of "weathering" the pipe allowed for mass failure of many Texas wood duck colonies. (Research done by Texas Parks and Wildlife) 48" diameter sheet metal guards WILL NOT stop snakes over 72" long from crossing them to reach a nestbox. (Research done by Jack Finch of Bailey North Carolina.) Sandwich guards: Made from two flat pieces of sheetmetal 18"
wide and 36" long and pinned together making a sandwich out of the
mounting pole with the Ron Kingston's stove pipe guard: This guard mounted as high as possible and allowed to wobble freely is currently the "Best" all around deterrent with the least maintenance to climbing predators and grease can be applied under the guard protecting it from unwanted contact with animals and keeping it cleaner and softer to repel ants longer. It should be made in 8" diameter and not the 7" which is published in some books or publications. I believe Ron mentioned that a typo changed the diameter of the original guard and the mistake has been "copied" repeatedly. Waxed & polished pipe/conduit:** I believe Steve Eno in
Nebraska is or was doing research on climbing abilities of
raccoons and don't quote me as this Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 09:42:18 -0500 Gary wrote--- "This is especially alarming because unless grease is used on the pole, the snake leaves little or no evidence behind that lets the birder know the nest was robbed." I would think that some or all of the eggs missing from a nestbox is plenty of evidence to let the birder know that the nest was robbed. Jay Gilliam Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 08:40:18 -0500 Hi Gary--- Jay Gilliam -----Original Message----- When I got tired of the mysterious disappearance of eggs and chicks from my nest boxes, when I became aware that my heart almost stopped beating from the shock of opening a nest box and coming nose to nose with a snake, and when I had enough flying squirrels and winter mice nests on my bluebird trail, I took the advice of the North American Bluebird Society to mount nest boxes on metal poles and make them slick by coating them with grease.. I began mounting them on three quarter inch steel pipe. To connect the nest box to the top of the pole, I used the threaded metal pipe flange made to go on this type of pipe. Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 12:54:34 -0400 Hi Jay, Using the telescopic system I described a while back in which boxes are mounted 10 feet and higher, the only part of the top pole that is touched during the raising or lowering process is the bottom foot or two. That leaves 8 feet of pole you can grease any way desired. I put no grease on the pole that is pounded into the ground. Of course there are an infinite number of telescopic mounting possibilities and the one you use will dictate where to apply the grease. I'll be writing more about telescopic poles in the not too distant future. Gary Springer We are finally getting a heavy rain in this holler. ----- Original Message ----- Hi Gary--- Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 03:58:33 -0400 Hi Dave, Applying grease to nest box poles as a predator deterrent is a practice that has been widely published, used and debated. Therefore, I suspect that if grease does attract bears to nest boxes, others have had this problem and their experiences will eventually reach us. But you may simply be the first one to recognize this problem. I am very aware that some mammals do like the taste of grease and it is quite possible the grease is what attracted your bear. It is also possible the grease had nothing to do with the destruction of your nest boxes. I have read of bears destroying nest boxes. If others have had bears destroy nest boxes even though they did not use grease, it may be coincidence that your nest boxes were destroyed the first year you employed grease. I will forward your post to another list to see if others have had experiences such as yours and also to determine if others that do not use grease regularly lose nest boxes to bears. I also hope you will post next year to let us know whether or not you continue to have problems with bears even though you have discontinued the use of grease as a predator deterrent. Thanks for bringing this to my attention. Sincerely, Gary Springer Original Message: Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 23:22:21 -0600 Gary, I don't know if this has ever been investigated or even reported, but you can be sure that I will never use grease on my EMT again. I have had very infrequent problems with snakes in the past, but this year has been disheartening and I'm attributing it to the grease. So, my suggestion is this: if bears are a possible intruder in your area, don't apply anything, including grease, to your poles. It might just attract the worst kind of predator, and intelligent one that I love to see and experience, but one who has no idea of the value I place on those little birds. Dave Richmond Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 13:49:03 -0700 Dear Friends, Bears destroying nesting boxes? Now that's a good question. I'm with Gary and David on most of their points, and yes, one could almost say that grease and bears do go hand in hand. When I worked for CDF we heard allot of stories (some funny some tragic) about campers cooking bacon in their camps and bears in California. However, I'll refrain from telling these stories and will get back to the issue at hand. Regardless of the grease, and because of the racket the baby BBs make, an opportunistic predator could be attracted to the nesting boxes based on that alone in my humble opinion. However, lets assume for a moment that the grease is actually attracting the bears (which maybe the case). I would follow David's advice and stop using grease and see what happens, but there is another issue that seems to be over looked that I will bring up later. If you still think you have to use grease, then lets get rid of the grease and move to a synthetic oil product (STP or equivalent). Synthetic oil products may not be as "tasty" as grease and I remember reading somewhere that synthetic oil produces do not harden, cake or dry out like grease does. Now here is the bigger picture that I eluted to earlier. This marauding bear (or bears) is now accustom to and educated
by your nesting boxes. It is very likely that it (or they) see
your nesting boxes as a source It is my opinion that you should look into a pepper mixer
deterrent (I may have one) that you could blend which is not
lethal to either predator or prey (like By properly applying a pepper solution to the sides of or on the mounting poles (blended with grease, STP or not) of the nesting boxes these marauders will have a new found respect for your nesting boxes. They will then leave them alone and will seek more appetizing and less "HOT" targets elsewhere. Keep me posted and I look forward to hearing from you in the future. Happy Bluebird Trails To You, Gary Springer wrote: Hi Dave, ... Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 08:21:09 EDT It is my opinion that you should look into a pepper mixer deterrent (I may have one) that you could blend which is not lethal to either predator or prey (like ground Jalapes peppers or equivalent). Why didn't I think of this!!! There are several preparations commercially available for horses (who sometimes amuse themselves by beavering at the fences and woodwork). The best I've found is "Cribox", made by the Hydrophane company. It's a paste, easily applied by fingers or a putty knife ("easily" in warm weather, that is, and *don't* rub your eyes if you use fingers!), lasts well, non- harmful. Active ingredient is capsaicin sp?, VERY hot. Should be easy to smear on posts, sides of box, etc. Try the local feed store or tack shop--if they don't have Cribox they might have something else. But I'm betting on the Cribox as the best shot for coons, too--bet they won't like the taste of their paws after trying to climb a post with Cribox on!! (I notice that the horses seem to get the point when they sniff it.) Rhonda Watts From: "Mandy Hils" ahils"at"insightbb.com Hi all, It looks as if the pair of eastern blues that have been visiting are (maybe?) getting serious about the box out back. What kind of grease should I use on my conduit(mounting) pole? I have had racoon problems in the past, of course last year I had my boxes mounted on trees. (I learned that lesson the hard way) Sincerely, From: TomGaryH"at"aol.com Mandy, Grease may not stop a raccoon from climbing the conduit. The Kingston 8-inch stovepipe baffle would be a much better choice to prevent raccoons from getting to the box. However, grease is a very good barrier to keep ants from getting to the nestbox. General purpose, chassis, or wheel bearing greases may be used on the conduit. These can be bought at K- or Walmart or auto-parts stores. After application, periodically check and reapply as may be required -the surface of grease tends to "scab" over. Vaseline (petroleum jelly) is also acceptable for stopping ants. The useful life of all of these petroleum products can be drastically shortened by dust, dirt and water (eg., lawn sprinker or rain). Tom Heintzelman From: "Keith & Sandy Kridler" kridler"at"1starnet.com Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant Texas Snakes will crawl right through extremely thick coatings of grease and when they enter a nestbox they will scrape off a "donut" of grease that sticks around the entrance hole. Extremely thick coatings of grease on metal pipe will often have young raccoons crawl right up and over the grease and it works pretty well at protecting the birds in the nestbox because the young raccoon when it reaches the nestbox top is more concerned with removing the sticky grease than it is with trying to reach in and eat a meal now!!!! If you have been using grease on poles for many years the older raccoons will have already learned to avoid the grease but it is more of an inconvenience than a deterrent. It probably depends on if they are starving or can get an easier meal somewhere else as to how well this will work. Remember that in urban areas cats roam at night and can easily jump up to 6 feet off of the ground and could clear most baffles and guards on the "average" nestbox height of about 5 feet. For those who "think" they don't have predators coming into their yard , go out and buy three little cans of cat food and open and place them at three different locations on your property and see if something eats them..... This said the box mounted to a porch is probably safer from "wild" creatures than one mounted down along a rural fence line! These birds face life and death situations every hour of their short lives! Now that you are learning more add a couple of boxes in better locations on better mounting poles for their next nesting but don't be surprised if they return to the "porch" located nestbox! One of our Texas Master Gardeners protects his garden by installing motion detector lights! At first he simply removed the bulbs and plugged in an extension cord into a light socket adaptor and ran the cord from the garden to his bed where he plugged in a radio.....When a warm body entered his garden the radio came on and he woke up and went "Hunting".....His main comment about this was, "You know I NEVER saw a cat in the yard but that first night I was up six times with three different cats!!!" He learned that installing light bulbs in the motion detectors worked just as well as "hunting" because they have Great Horned Owls nesting close and these birds learned that when the lights came on they had an easy meal "caught in the headlights"...Another master gardener experimented with the motion detector which triggered his electric fence charger..... Anyway oil or grease on poles works better for ants than stopping real predators. It works better when it is not raining very much or there is not dirt and dust blowing into the sticky stuff....When you mow or use the weedeater and throw grass clippings into the oil or grease you make it easier for them to climb.....KK Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 03:50:43 -0700 (PDT) Hi everyone. I have about 80 boxes on poles between two golf courses. For a long time ground predation hasn't been a problem, but as aging and dying trees have been left standing by these envrironmentally aware golf course managers, we are seeing signs now of predation, I imagine by raccoons. With 80 boxes, cost is prohibitive to put stove-pipe guards on all of them. My question is regarding greasing the poles....what kind of grease is best? Mixed with turpentine? Cayenne pepper added in? How far up the pole should the grease be started? Apply it thick, like with a putty knife, or just wipe it on with rag? And, some of these boxes are on T-bar poles. Will grease help on those as well as the round pipes? And, have any of you found this to be effective to any degree? Many thanks for any help you can give. Mary Wilson Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 08:53:41 -0400 The amount of work needed to keep the grease in good condition will make the price of the stove pipe (Kingston) predator guards a little more attractive. Grease will soon dry and become more viscous thus *aiding* predators in climbing up the post. It will work well for about a month, then it has to be applied again, a very messy job. Get the cheapest grease at an auto store, and buy it by the gallon. It will not help applied on T-posts. Here, the price of a finished Kingston guard (not counting your labor,) is about $3 per guard. You probably need to apply them to the problem boxes only, but coons can go far... Total price is $240, I agree, not a small amount. If you don't mind the mess of the grease, apply it thick using a spatula and a brush to even it out. It should cover the entire post, from a little above ground to the box. For the T-posts, use the Kingston guards... Fawzi. Fawzi Emad in Laytonsville, Maryland ----- Original Message ----- ... Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 10:06:45 -0400 I just recently cleaned out an old abandoned nest box for a neighbor and found it overrun with ants. Living in New Hampshire, I have never had a problem with ants and therefore I had nothing on hand to correct the problem. Thinking quick I brushed away all of the ants, cleaned the box and used my bag balm around the metal pole. It is working for now, and a TUTI has been checking it out. Does anybody know if bag balm was a bad choice or not? Thank you, Lisa Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 09:00:08 -0700 Dear Lisa and friends, Bag Balm is not dangerous. In fact I've been using Bag Balm for years and I can remember the first can that I purchase from O'Neil Drug Store in Petaluma CA back in 1973 and it lasted for years. I use Bag Balm mostly for bad burns, sunburns, and chapped hands, plus Nina likes to use it as a facial moisturizer (which I think is kind of funny) and to prevent chapped lips. Next to Corn Huskers, Bag Balm is the best. With that said, what you are using it for is a first. Never have I ever considered using Bag Balm or ever thought of using it for what you are using is for, but I see no reason why you should use it other than the expense. Because Bag Balm is virtually 100% lanolin, I would like you to continue using it to see how it holds up to the heat. I believe that it will melt and streak down the mounting poles, so keep me posted. Cheers and as always... Happy Bluebird Trails To You, Superdups wrote: I just recently cleaned out an old abandoned nest box for a neighbor ... |
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