The Focus of Bluebirders and Bluebirding (Part 1)

Subj: Questioning our focus...
Date: 12/14/99 8:53:35 PM Central Standard Time
From: eemmuu"at"att.net (carriers)
Sender: owner-BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Reply-to: eemmuu"at"att.net
To: BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu (Bluebird talk)

Hello all!
It is cold, rainy and damp outside tonight, so I sat down and read my newly arrived " Autumn NABS Bluebird Journal". In it,is a letter written to Editor, on page 11 titled"Questions focus", by Karen Lippy of Hanover PA. I think all Bluebird advocates should read this letter. To give you an idea of what its about, let me quote from one of her paragraphs:-

"While I take pride in being part of this great effort, I now begin to question our focus on nest boxes for Bluebirds".

I hope this letter will open up your thinking as much as it did mine. Being an environmentalist first myself, I always try to look at the broader picture of anything and everything man does to help or change nature for what we think as the better. Even good intentions may not be for the better of the whole, or better for the
balance that was intended.

Have, or are we going to far? Or are our very successful efforts, through time, going to produce another problem for other creatures that would take away from the balance of nature?

For those who read this letter, I, and I'm sure others, would love to hear your personal opinions here on this post. So please reply! And if it were possible, might we present it here for all to read?
Paul from CT.

 

Subj: Re: Questioning our focus...
Date: 12/14/99 10:41:55 PM Central Standard Time
From: bags"at"erols.com (David A. Bagley)
Sender: owner-BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Reply-to: bags"at"erols.com"at"erols.com
To: eemmuu"at"att.net
CC: BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu (Bluebird talk)

Hello All,

In questioning whether we are in any danger of going "too far", please keep in mind that all the numbers I've ever seen say that the bluebird population has dropped by 90% this century and that this trend may have only just been arrested in this decade. Does anyone really believe bluebird numbers will ever be restored to pre-1900 levels? As long as house sparrows and starlings exist and thrive on this continent, it will never happen and this will be a never-ending effort. The only thing that has stopped the decline is the propagation of properly monitored nestboxes. Isn't the bluebird still officially listed as a 'Threatened' species'? Some lucky people may now have a yard full of bluebirds and think the problem is solved and they are everywhere, but there are many more who have still never seen one.

Dave Bagley
Maryland (Nestbox trail on the Chesapeake)

carriers wrote:

...

 

Subj: questioning our focus
Date: 12/15/99 1:21:43 AM Central Standard Time
From: dputman"at"syix.com (dputman)
Sender: owner-BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Reply-to: dputman"at"syix.com
To: Bluebird-L"at"cornell.edu (bluebird)

Kevin Putman, Yuba City, CA

If not nestboxes, what should our focus be? Habitat preservation? Many of us probably already belong to other organizations that are working on that. Could our nestbox campaigns eventually have some unforeseen detrimental effect, ecologically, down the road? Perhaps, but I think this notion is rather trivial in comparison to the very real threat posed by human population expansion / development. Actually, I think the concept of a natural "balance", uninfluenced by man, is long since dead anyway. There isn't hardly one square foot of this continent--even in remote regions-- that hasn't been shaped / influenced by we humans, and we're just getting warmed up! Think of all the alien plant / animal introductions; nearly total turnover to 2nd & 3rd growth forests; millions of acres of fertile valleys radically altered for agricultural purposes, with accompanying water diversions/ channelization / dams; and last but not least, there is the greatest threat of all, urbanization itself--the creeping concrete.

Speaking of which, I think about projects like Dick Purvis' in S. Calif. (and Linda has mentioned this, too) : Here is a case where dedicated people were able to basically assimilate bluebirds into an urban landscape. Sure, it would be better to have pristine wilderness, but that is total fantasy. We might as well try to make the best of the situation. In this case, it was either urbanization with bluebirds (and other cavity nesters) or urbanization without them. The only thing that was and will be certain is urbanization.

Where I am here in N. Calif., I see the same thing coming on fast. The agricultural land, and the wildlife populations that it still supports (not to mention us!), is being converted to housing. I look at places where I now have nestboxes and wonder if bluebirds will survive the creeping concrete. Frankly, I have my doubts, but it can certainly only happen with the help of people putting up nestboxes.

 

Subj: Re: questioning our focus
Date: 12/15/99 5:51:34 AM Central Standard Time
From: randyj"at"enter.net (Randy Jones)
Sender: owner-BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Reply-to: randyj"at"enter.net
To: bluebird-L"at"cornell.edu (Bluebird Listserve)

I have been struck by another benefit of placing nestboxes in a suburban area. The neighbors in whose yards we place them are being educated not only about bluebirds, but about the need to care for the environment. Most important, they are given an outlet for caring. A "convert" to caring about bluebirds represents important change of the kind we must have as a culture if we are to survive.

Randy Jones
Allentown PA

 

Subj: Re: Questioning our focus...
Date: 12/15/99 5:15:31 PM Central Standard Time
From: hpandtl"at"crocker.com (Haleya Priest/Thom Levy)
Sender: owner-BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Reply-to: hpandtl"at"crocker.com
To: becky"at"pearsonengineering.com, BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu (BLUEBIRD)

Haleya Priest Amherst MA

Becky, about bbs in your yard. You probably aren't too close to a highway from what you say - just turn your bb boxes away from the highway so the fledglings won't fly toward the highway. In terms of the cat. Make sure you use a metal pole to mount the bb and keep it within eyesight so you can watch for possible predation. Of course, the best solution is to train your cat to be indoors, or think about keeping it (they) inside when the babies are ready to fledge...
In terms of dairy farm. That might be a problem due to house sparrows. You don't say how close the barns are, but dairy farms can mean real house sparrow problems. You'd want to really look around to the # of house sparrows that are hanging around. Take down any feeders that attract them.

Next is the bbs need open space - as far from the barns as possible and away from trees.

Think about putting up some double holed boxes - those seem promising by the people who use them - to keep the sparrows from harming the bbs. Check with Linda Violett on that. You can also think about pairing your boxes - that will attract tree swallows and bbs to nest together. You'll have to remove house any sparrow nests every couple days to discourage them from using the nest box (es) you've put up. And finally, you might need to trap the house sparrows if necessary. The main thing you want is to help the bbs nest - that has to be top priority. And if you can attract them, and have at least one successful nesting a year, I'd say go for it!

You'll never know if bbs will be attracted to your land until you try -and there are lots of people to help. Start looking over the REFERENCE GUIDE at the many web sites devoted to helping bbs nest. Good luck! H

 

Subj: question...
Date: 12/15/99 6:29:01 PM Central Standard Time
From: eemmuu"at"att.net (carriers)
Sender: owner-BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Reply-to: eemmuu"at"att.net
To: BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu (Bluebird talk)

Hello all!

Its great to read all the replys to my last post. Keep them comin!

I must say here, that I still agree with most, that our BBs are still in need of help to keep them at least up in numbers so they can rebound from  catastrophic events that might come up in the future. It is so much more rewardable for me to see my boxes being occupied by these once almost extirpated birds, from my efforts back in the 70’s with no success at all from 45 boxes .

I would like to say, in response to another's post, that I too accept other creatures using my boxes. Though Chickadees and Titmice can make their own
excavations, they too are finding troubles with nesting sites. And it has indeed been found, that even some of our more common birds are now showing signs of drastic population drops. Notable here in Ct are Towhees, Rose-breasted Grosbeaks, Meadowlarks and Wood thrushes. For most, it is the loss of habitat that is causing much of these drops, and these losses of habitat can almost always be attributed to man and his ever expanding numbers.

Man has taken over and changed much of the indigenous habitat in this country, and there seems to be no end in sight. When it comes to BBs, the opening up of
this country by man has indeed benefited these birds, But at the same time, the introduction of our two alien species have greatly swayed the balance of usable nesting sites to their favor. Mans hand caused this situation, and we too are now trying to change these odds in favor of the BBs.  I guess it comes to the fact; Do we want to see more H Sps and Starlings, or more indigenous BBs?

I also agree with Dean’s point of all those BB boxes being sold at k-Marts Etc, to the public as such, and having most become more sparrow breeding houses. Its sad to think about, but it also makes our efforts that much more worthy. I just get so upset when I hear about how any species survival is so greatly influenced by what man does, directly or indirectly. Someone has to stand up for the unfortunate ones who are touched so, and I guess anything is better than nothing, Right? Paul from CT

 

Subj: [Fwd: FOCUS]
Date: 12/15/99 8:10:14 PM Central Standard Time
From: lviolett"at"earthlink.net (Linda Violett)
Sender: owner-BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Reply-to: lviolett"at"earthlink.net
To: Bluebird-L"at"cornell.edu (Bluebird-L"at"cornell.edu)

Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif.

We are losing our native birds because our country's acreage is being engulfed by humanity. So, where are all these extra bodies coming from? Most would say
"CALIFORNIA!" Sorry folks, we're moving your way because the federal government is unwilling to stop the crush of humanity from outside our borders.

Kevin Putman is accurate in his prediction that what is being accomplished for birds here in concrete So. Calif. is the pioneering work for future monitors
whose own hometowns will be urbanized. If this is already occurring on your trail, please don't take the boxes down. Try revising your trail by including some "citified" designs. Get used to the idea that bluebirds can and do survive in congested cities. The bluebirds are adaptable to nestboxes in cities if their human partners can adapt as easily to having parts of their trails in urban settings.

The western bluebird will never regain its numbers because the loss of habitat has been and continues to be devastating. The eastern bluebird was able to
rebound because of the still abundant open land . . . but this first flush of success will ebb as the open land is consumed. So the quicker all bluebird are adapted to cities, the better chance of survival. Only those animals that cannot adapt to cities will become extinct so I do believe the focus on bluebirds and other native birds is right on target with much work to be done. The easy part of monitoring boxes in ideal settings will be replaced with sparrow-infested greenbelt pockets where bluebirds must compete against EUST, HOSP and RATS.


dean sheldon wrote:

We have four trails [120 nest boxes] in the rural and
semi-rural areas of three counties in north central Ohio. All boxes are on
utility poles. Lots of good habitat.....and yet, every nesting season sees
the relcation of 10-15 boxes because individual parcels of agricultural land
are being "sold off" for residential development. And with that comes
lean-tos, pole barns, machinery sheds, small utility barns, feedlots, horse
stables,junk cars/trucks....all of which are just great places for the
nesting of HOSP and EUST. And those birds and their progeny swarm out from
those sites to infest the nest boxes which have been so thoughtfully placed
by me for the nesting success of bluebirds.
 

Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 08:48:18 -0700
From: "W.Guglieri" wendyg"at"jps.net
To: BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: a young friend and his nestbox

Wendy Guglieri
Rescue, California
-in the Sierra Nevada foothills 40 mi. east of Sacramento-
wendyg"at"jps.net

Hi all:

Just wanted to take a moment to share a wonderful experience I had while monitoring my neighborhood trail yesterday.

A few weeks ago I put up 2 nestboxes for an 8-year old neighbor, They have 5 acres of land very close to mine. For this, his mother donated $35 to the Bluebird Recovery Program, and included the nestboxes as a large part of his 8th birthday present. (What a great idea!) He and his 4 year old sister are fascinated with the project. As I drove by his house (he does his own monitoring), he hollered for me to stop, and proudly showed me his almost completed WEstern BLuebird nest. He then followed me down the road on his rollerblades to monitor another neighbor's 4 nests.

One of the nests has a WEBL incubating 6 eggs, and I always check these females once during incubation for a band. When I took the female off the nests and he saw her up close, and saw the 6 lovely blue eggs, the only way I can describe the look on his face was pure wonder! I told him when she'd begun to incubate and he figured out the hatching date (correctly!) I had to help him out to still another nest box (he was still on his rollerblades) and as we approached we could see straws sticking out of the bottom of the box. "Quiet now", I told him, "looks like we've got another Bluebird nest". However, as I opened the box, which had about 1/2 in. of straw on the bottom, but the rest (incomplete) a large pile of moss and lichen, he said "That's not a Bluebird nest; they don't use that kind of stuff". Of course, he was right. And all of this he learned from reading Hatch Graham's "Monitoring Your Bluebird Trail" booklet!

I put him to the task of painting false entry holes on his unoccupied box, and he is absolutely thrilled that he's taking place in a "National experiment", as he put it.

Sometimes we forget that the simplest things, such as a nestbox and monitoring guide, can be such a wondrous present for a child. This young fellow takes his role quite seriously, but is full of wonder (and a goodly amount of knowledge for an 8 yr. old beginner), and SO proud that he's doing his part to be a good care-taker of the earth. (Perhaps another Hatch or Bruce or Keith in the making?).

wg

Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 09:05:05 -0400
From: "birdlady" birdlady"at"netstorm.net
To: Bluebird-L"at"Cornell.edu
Subject: Sharing the Joy of Bluebirds

Hello All: ( Betty Nichols, Middletown, MD)

On Thursday 5/11 recd. a call from a lonely widow in the next farm town in ideal Bluebird habitat.. The nestbox belonging to her late husband had become deteriorated & removed. The returning pair kept seeking their lost box. On Friday. my husband & I visited &installed new box in original location. Here is the interesting part:

The lady (a knowledgeable NABS member early 80's) asked that we also install a second box near the small holly tree planted with the ashes of her late husband where a small memorial service for a retired Naval officer was completed at the time of "burial". She was delighted that a box now solidifies the happy memories of her past life and completes the memorial to one who so loved the Bluebirds. It was indeed an honor and privilege to share our devotion to these adorable birds.

Betty Nichols

Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 07:31:08 -0700
From: "Tena Taylor" tenataylor"at"tycom.net
To: "BLUEBIRD LIST" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Future for Bluebirds?

Tena Taylor, Calhoun County, Mississippi We need rain!

Hello, bluebirders! Last night as I was adding up trail check, my better 3/4's asked a troubling question, based on the facts that last year (our first year of country bluebirding) 53 bluebirds fledged. Already this year 58 have fledged and that's only the first nesting. We normally have 3nestings here in Mississippi. His question: If we keep on increasing the numbers, what happens to all the bluebirds when we are no longer here to maintain our trail?

I know the answer is education, to get the up-coming generation interested in bluebirds. But, fact is, the majority of MISSISSIPPI BLUEBIRDS members are over 50. We're out here in the country, I don't see much hope of the small town of Calhoun City expanding into a huge metropolitan area. My children do not live near us, and probably never will. I don't know about other parts of the US, but here our youngsters move on up to bigger and better places (so they think!). All my neighbors within a 5 mile radius are 45+, children have already moved on.

My worry today is what happens to all these bluebirds I'm 'bringing into this world' in 15-20 years?

I doubled my trail this year...at what point do I start taking down a couple of boxes each year?

Any comforting thought out there?

Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 09:31:36 EDT
From: RWil2654"at"aol.com
To: tenataylor"at"tycom.net, BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Future for Bluebirds?

You need to get active and interest young people in bluebird nesting box  trails. We have kids 8-9-10-12-16 helping at various time with our trails. I guess it like taking them to church they may not stay after high school but they will come back some time. One a baby bluebird poops on their hand they are hooked.

The nine year places first in his school with his science fair project on bluebirds. Bob

Bob Wilson
(970) 242-5190 39* 06.21N 108*33.61 W
4,635 elevation Grand Junction Colorado
THE HOME OF ALL THREE BLUEBIRD SPECIES
A HREF="http://www.crosswinds.net/~bluebirdbob/"Bob Wilson Home Page/A
A HREF="http://www.crosswinds.net/~bluebirdguide/"BLUEBIRD-L REFERENCE GUIDE/A

Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 10:59:42 -0500
From: "Bruce Johnson" bjohnso3"at"midsouth.rr.com
To: tenataylor"at"tycom.net, "Bluebird Ref." BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Future for Bluebirds?

...

Hello, Tena & all:

What you are doing to increase the bluebird population is commendable. The last few years have proven that the combined efforts of dedicated bluebirders can make a difference. In the fifties, for several years I did not see a single bluebird in an area that previous to the introduction to DDT had numerous bluebirds.

In my opinion, the increase in the bluebird population in your area due to your efforts will not build up into an unnatural population of these birds, they will disperse into the surrounding areas. You might be the only person to know the effect your efforts has produced, but you can be pround of the results.

I had a friend that got a job with a steel company making metal roofing. He said that he thought they had made enough roofing to cover every house in every country. His supervisior told him that they were not producing enough metal to supply the tops for the soft drink industry. (That was when all soft drinks had a metal cap.)

It's hard, if not impossible, for us to see many things in the perspective of the grand scheme of things.

Keep up the good work.

Best regards,

Bruce Johnson ~ Life Mbr. NABS
2795 Long Oak Drive
Germantown TN 38138
901-755-6842

Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 11:29:41 -0700
From: "Tena Taylor" tenataylor"at"tycom.net
To: "BLUEBIRD LIST" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Future for the Bluebirds?

Tena Taylor, Calhoun County, Mississippi

Thanks for all the comforting words! I temporarily forgot that tomorrow will take care of itself. I knew that! tt

Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 16:47:59 PDT
From: "dean sheldon" dsheldonjr"at"hotmail.com
To: NESTBOX-L"at"cornell.edu
Cc: BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: interfering with nesting birds

NO ONE EVER SAID IT MORE ELOQUENTLY or HONESTLY. WE ARE SIMPLY MICROMANAGING BLUEBIRDS/AND OURSELVES OUT OF EXISTENCE. Dean Sheldon, Huron County, OH

From: "jmellin" jmellin"at"gateway.net
Reply-To: NESTBOX-L"at"cornell.edu
To: NESTBOX-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: interfering with nesting birds
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 16:36:00 -0700

Flks, we have got to stop treating these birds like toys. We are OBSERVERS
of what is happening, not agents of change. I am afraid that someone is
going to turn the whole program in to federal authorities if we do not
adhere to the letter of the law. This is not a semantic argument but one
that should define what we are to do. Birds do not nest for our enjoyment,
although,thankfully for all of us, we can enjoy watching them. Their
strongest urge is to nest and we must stay out of the process.

We are to observe and THAT IS ALL. I have cringed all spring as I have
read postings of people bringing eggs into their homes, moving chicks from
one nest to another and taking twigs out of wren nests to see better. We
must stop doing that and we must stop now! Any changes to placement,
pairings, etc., should be made after the nesting season is over. Birds have
nested successfully for more years and more broods than we could ever
observe and we must let them continue. We cannot impose our standards on
them. If we see a kitten out in the rain, we can take it in. Thank
goodness for foster parents who take in abandoned children. But wild
critters are different. Birds abandon their nests, eggs and even young if
conditions are too difficult for them to continue with a nest. Birds know
that they must save themselves to renest and to carry on their genes. They
recognize when conditions are too harsh and they adjust. LET THEM DO THIS
as nature intends. Check your nest once a week and make it quick. Let the
birds alone to do their thing. Not only are we skewing this study, we are
morally and legally corrupting nature.

I know this will not be a popular post but it has to be said. I hope the
folks are Cornell will take a stronger stance on this subject before we
lose permission to do this at all.

Judy Mellin
Palatine, IL.

Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 07:17:22 -0500
From: "Keith & Sandy Kridler" kridler"at"1starnet.com
To: "BLUEBIRD-L" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: loss of nest cam birds

Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas
Had there not been a camera in the box, most likely those birds would have died before anyone knew there was a problem. Human thought patterns being what they are, most people watching demanded that since they knew the young were dying that an effort should be made to save the remaining ones. Each and every one of us is doing a lot of "saving/interfering" whether we realize it or not! Bruce B. with extra thick entrance blocks and box pairing, Linda V. with hanging boxes, Bill D. with treating fire ants, Gary S. with telescoping metal poles, Bob W. with House Sparrows, Betty with her box insulation, MANY with supplemental feeding! The list is endless! And with this WONDERFUL BLUEBIRD-L list we are able with a key stroke to add more ideas and improvements to our saving methods than many of us EVER would have thought of in a lifetime!

Sandy and I are charter members of NABS (North American Bluebird Society). I was the third life member of NABS. I wrote back and forth to Larry Zeleny in the early 70's when the only bluebird effort was through the "Purple Martin News" (later Nature Society News). It took WEEKS sometimes YEARS then to work out a fairly simple problem we sometimes handle in minutes! There wasn't even a single "how to" book on bluebirds until 1975!

Saving cavity nesters and monitoring is very much like watching a desert. There is always the underling problem of sand (predators, weather ETC.) but
depending on which way the wind blows the "problem" can change from none at all to severe in a matter of days. Although there are always problems they are constantly shifting. Without a certain amount of "interfering" to "save" birds we know will perish or never hatch we are still "interfering" by doing nothing.

After all these years of bluebirding I have learned to carry a truck load (I'm not kidding!) of "things" every trip I make along the bluebird trail to better allow me to "interfere" just in case the sand has shifted and is getting a little deep for "my" bluebirds even if they are really not mine as some people think. KK

Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 21:22:15 -0400
From: "Fawzi P. Emad femad <at> fpemad <dot> com
To: dsheldonjr"at"hotmail.com, NESTBOX-L"at"cornell.edu
Cc: BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: interfering with nesting birds

Instead of "cringing" it is better to tell people what you think is a better way to do it (and not what they "should" do). Many people do things a certain way because they do not know what may be "better". If you suggest a better way, most likely they will adopt it. After all, you are lucky if you can change your own behaviour. To think you can simply change the behaviour of  thers is not "rational" though you are free to think so if you like! Is it not interference to make a nestbox for bluebirds? and to check it? (even once a week)? If you say we are 'to observe and THAT IS ALL', then I conclude no one "should" put out boxes for any birds... let the birds make their own nests as we "observe"!!! So, I suggest it may be better to show people what
you think is a good way, share views, let people select what fits for them... and "jmellin", please feel free to accept/reject my views as you see fit... certainly, I cannot influence your choice (i.e. you have the freedom of choice). Thank you!

Fawzi from MD

...

Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 22:01:53 -0500
From: "Hummingbird" lilwings"at"centurytel.net
To: femad"at"comcast.net, dsheldonjr"at"hotmail.com, NESTBOX-L"at"cornell.edu
Cc: BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: 'interference'?

I think to say that anyone who puts the time, work and effort (not to mention the monetary investment of birdboxes, birdhouses, feeders, literature/books on birding, etc etc etc) would see the birds who share their space as "toys" is totally unfounded. If I see an injured bird that may possibly be helped by a rehabilitator, you can bet good money I'm going to rush that bird to them asap. They may be "wild critters" as you say, but I feel that since we've invaded THEIR space with our cars that maim and kill, put pesticides on the land in which they feed upon that alters their genetics, decreased their habitat with our growing need for more development, etc etc etc...that it's a bit late to start pointing the finger and WHO has disturbed WHAT, we could argue that point all day...I just recently joined this email list and have been delighted, saddened and felt great empathy with alot of the posts, and I'm touched by the caring and awe that comes across in the people who just have started to put up boxes...and to me that's what it's all about, it's sharing, learning from our mistakes and trying to make things maybe just a little bit better in our respective "corners" of the world... and if that is interference, I think we could use more "interference" of that sort, imho. I'm not a biologist, I'm just a person who loves birds and sees them as threatened, beautiful and a very important part of life. Sincerely, Cindy in Michigan

'WoodsWalk' - Enjoying Michigan's Wilderness
http://www.centurytel.net/hummingbird/main.html

Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 22:57:02 -0400
From: "birdlady" birdlady"at"netstorm.net
To: Bluebird-L"at"Cornell.edu
Subject: Interfering with nesting birds

Hello All:

It saddens me deeply to witness this volatile exchange of opinions through this excellent form of communication.

For over twenty years I have witnessed an incredible rebirth of a bird that was seldom seen by the most experienced birdwatcher. For those who feel the return of the Bluebird was brought about by observing only - think again. It has taken years of dedication and passion to bring this phenonema about. It has been accomplished by grass-roots and caring people of this great nation.

Did we micro-manage the Bald Eagle - the Osprey - the California Condor? I think not. Or, should we simply remember the Passenger Pigeon or the
Carolina Parakeet.

Betty Nichols, Middletown, MD

Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 08:29:24 -0700
From: "Nicholas A. Zbiciak" nzbiciak"at"gfn.org
To: "'springer"at"alltel.net'" springer"at"alltel.net, "BLUEBIRD-L"at"" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Cc: "'BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu'" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: RE: Micromanagement revisited

Gary:

Believe it or not, not all of us have the time, inclination, or funds to set up a line of boxes on a golf course, bike trail, polo field or vineyard. Many of us have a simple yard and garden and wish to share it with these beautiful birds.
 

"...I still believe it is far more productive, enjoyable, and educational to put out more nest boxes, spend less time at each nest box, and fledge far more
birds, than it is to focus on one or two nest boxes, spend many hours worrying about those one or two, constantly opening them, and staring at them, thinking what needs to be done next,..."
 

"...But, it is very possible that a raccoon tried to raid the nest box for a couple hours the night before, that the box has been under siege by house
sparrows three or four times that day, and, a cat that is aware of the nest has been trying to rob the nest several times a week...."

And unlike the golf courses, bike trails, polo fields and vineyards, we are able to trap and eliminate the raccoons, cats and sparrows, on a much more
successful rate.

For us types of birders, the boxes become an extension of the yard and garden, and on at least one level, an extension of family.

Gary, I appreciate what you are saying, and I would like for you to appreciate the concerns of the "small birders" as well.

Happy Birding

Nicholas
Holly, Michigan

Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 14:04:39 -0400
From: "Katherine S. Wolfthal" kate"at"nirvana.ziplink.net
To: Bluebird-L Bluebird-L"at"cornell.edu, Nestbox-L nestbox-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Micromanagement - my =?iso-8859-1?Q?2=A2?=

Gary, Nicholas, Dean, Judy, and all who have "weighed in" on this subject:

I guess I should speak up on this, since it was my innocent query about a house wren invasion that precipitated, first, a post directed to me personally by Tina Phillips of Cornell, on Nestbox-L, on the illegality of destroying nests and eggs (which I never said or intimated I had any intention of doing), and then a post from Judy Mellin, addressed to the congregation, again on Nestbox-L, about "interference", threatening the wrath of the Federal authorities if people did not cease and desist. Although I feel that many good points are made in both posts, I do object to the peremptory and officious tone of these, as well as of some of the replies. There are many gray areas that are subject to debate, and we are all trying to do the right thing. I do not feel that sermonizing or invoking a law which we have all tacitly agreed to break time and time again will help anyone to decide what is the right thing to do in a given instance.

When I first posted what was intended as a purely academic query on House Wren nesting behavior, I received a flurry of posts from bluebirders about the evil habits of HOWR and how their breeding should not be encouraged. As a beginner in nestbox monitoring, I read all the posts and some of the recommended links and saw the rationale behind them. So when a house wren moved into a box that chickadees had just vacated and seemed to want to use again, less than half an acre away from the original wren that provoked the original flare-up, I asked advice on what to do about it, accompanied by several related questions, in the full knowledge that house wrens are protected.

I have so far received very few actual answers to my concrete questions and I am still uncertain about the best way to proceed. It is clear to me, however, that whatever advice I do ultimately receive will probably be conflicting and I will have to decide for myself, as we all ultimately do, according to what our experience, conscience and emotions dictate.

Of course all of us choose the species we wish to protect. It would be naive to think otherwise. The choice between bluebirds and house sparrows says that very eloquently, as does the choice of bird feeders and food to encourage/minimize the presence of one bird rather than another, or nestboxes with holes of different sizes to attract different birds. Is this wrong? Should all the boxes have holes big enough to let any bird in? Why not just take down all the boxes and all the feeders and let the birds duke it out? It will all work itself out in the end anyway, one way or another.

I believe I fall somewhere in the middle on the micromanagement issue. I don't think I could ever kill a sparrow or any other bird, and I don't think I would microwave a nest or help an egg to open. I do put up predator baffles, I do try to make my boxes watertight, I do keep a watchful eye out for problems, and I still think it is probably a good idea to not have more than one house wren occupying several nestboxes on half an acre of land.

In reply to Gary, whose posts are always civil and sensible, let me just say that I wish I had bluebirds but I don't. I am attempting to collect data for
Cornell's Nestbox project, and the birds I have to work with are TUfted TItmice, Black Capped CHickadees and, for better or for worse, house wrens. I have been monitoring as discreetly as possible, learning a great deal about how to do it correctly from people on Bluebird-L. Since the boxes are on my property, I see them every day and it's hard not to focus on them. So far I have had three nests in five boxes, and to date the results are two successful outcomes with no predation, and 15 out of 16 eggs hatched and fledged. Thanks are due not to me, of course, but to the birds who, as someone pointed out, are much more expert than we are. Even expert parents may need help, however. I certainly don't feel I have hampered the process in any way with my "interference" and hope I have helped create a climate conducive to success. The titmice are nesting again, it seems, and the much-maligned HOWR is happily laying eggs in the bluebird box. Perhaps when I've been doing this for as many years as some of you, I will stop worrying and relax.

Thanks for listening, and thanks for helping.

Gary Springer wrote:

...

Katherine
Weston, MA
-------------
kate"at"nirvana.ziplink.net

Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 01:18:55 -0400
From: Lin Towler aabr"at"wwd.net
To: BLUEBIRD-L BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Interfering/Micro-management

Dear Listserve, the following are my feelings on this subject;

There are times when I sit here in amazement and wonder, at the extremes some of us go to in the name of our beloved Bluebirds. I think the name
of the game here, should be EDUCATED INTERFERENCE, I mean, since the beginning of mankind, (and womankind!) we have interfered in everything we have ever come into contact with. It's fate that we will interfere, but at least let's do it with some thought process and little gray cells at work.

IMHO, I think we should educate ourselves as much as possible, keep up with, explore, and keep our minds open to new ideas from this communication network that is far reaching, and diverse. Use the knowledge of the experienced people from this and other mediums, give the Bluebirds and other cavity nesters the best NABS approved box we can, put it in the best place possible (for our area), provide as much predator protection as is possible, (or needed) and then ....let nature take it's course. At this point, everyone must decide for themselves how much to monitor and observe. While I love being upclose and personal, I feel that sometimes (most times, less is more.)

But I would like to mention this ( and I know I will probably get flamed)....what do you think the disappearing wildlife on this planet thinks of "us"? After all, aren't "we" to blame for the Passenger Pigeon, Condor, Osprey, and all cavity nesters having problems finding suitable housing in the first place? Maybe "they" have a communications network where "we" are the non-native, (face it, I doubt most of us are Native American Indians *grin*) invasive species threatening their very existence... and maybe "they" are trying to think up ways to trap, eliminate, eradicate, and destroy "us". Food for thought, eh? But somehow, I get the feeling that wildlife in all of it's many forms, ...are generally MORE benevolent and humane, (live and let live) than we are. RE: HOWR's - Tell me, if there were only one viable dwelling in your area, and 50-100 families wanting it, do YOU think most of the people would kill in order to get it for their family? Be honest. So far, I don't seem to have any here, but there is always next year. If they arrive, housing will be provided for them in adequate numbers, and appropriate habitat, so that everyone can be happy.

I applaud, commend, and congratulate our group of brothers and sisters across the continents for the great job they are all doing, but let's not forget...we are in the minority, while the majority of mankind destroys that which we few have taken so long to bring back from the brink of extinction.

This is what makes "me" truly sad, shamed, contrite, and embarrassed, for the majority of the human race.

God Bless, All who are willing to care enough to try to right past wrongs, and do our best to do what we can for the future good.

(Climbing down off of my soap box, dragging my scruffy teddybear (-that's a joke) and *yawning* waddling off to bed...will read all harrassing? rebuttal emails in the morning....Goodnight and/or Morning)

-
Lin Towler
Ashland, Boyd County, Kentucky
DeLorme Kentucky Atlas
Page #41, Grid B-10

Work: Downtown Ashland (606)329-2163
Home: Boyd County (606)928-5533

Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 15:19:40 EDT
From: "Kevin Bloom" kjbloom20"at"hotmail.com
To: Bluebird-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Why Should We???

Kevin Bloom
Sunbury PA (55 miles North of Harrisburg)
E-mail: kjbloom20"at"hotmail.com
Lat: 40:50:29.735N Lon: 76:40:58.375W
Member of North American Bluebird Society and......
BSP,OBS,BAN,MBT,NCBS,NYSBS,EBF,BAM,NHBC,VBS,BBRP,IBS,IBP,TBN,PBRP,BCBST
THE BLUEBIRD-L REF-GUIDE: http://www.crosswinds.net/~bluebirdguide/
Temperature for Sunbury Pa: 95*F at 3:07pm presently, expecting storm

Really Folks,
Why should we go to all this trouble for bluebirds and other birds? Why are we sending in nests to Terry for research? What is the purpose of it all?

What I mean when I ask these things is if bluebirds have been doing what they do without our help for years, why are we trying to stick our nose in and why should Terry want to know more about what are in bluebird's nests and other birds. Considering blowflies and the wasp which destroys them. Stupid questions to ask right? Not at all I say. I feel this needs to be said once more when people immediatly use interference of nature as a backup if they don't agree for all the trouble we go to for Bluebirds. Including trapping the House Sparrow and the Starling. We are also having problems with the House Wren which the population is becoming out of control. It is true that the House Wren is becoming the bluebirds' next worst predator. First though, I want to outline a few things on interference of nature for people who will come across this from people who do not agree, and you will! Especially if you speak to people on the conservation of bluebirds and the second you hit house sparrow control and trapping and destroying. Boom! I have come across many people who have tried to start with me on this issue and sadly most were related to me.

I will start off saying that there is no such thing as Perfect Nature. Why are their Wildlife Conservation Officers(WCOs)in your state? Why do they have seasons to hunt and trap. Around here it is to control the population especially that of the White-Tailed Deer. Have we interfered than with nature by doing that? Yes. My views on this whole House Sparrow and Starling thing is to make up for our mistake. It was man's doings that brought the two aliens over here. It will have to be again by man's doings to fix that mistake. I am sorry to tell you, but I don't see the starling and house sparrow packing their bags to leave! NO! They are staying put! Nature won't remove them because it was not her doings. I can add views for us humans as it would be for the bluebird, but I will not add them in this post. I think it is good of Terry and his team and the citizens who send the nests in for trying to discover or find out more. If nature did not want us to find more about things that surrounded us, I will tell you one thing I know we would have never found them! My thoughts on the endangered species subject is most, not all, of their threats have been brought by careless US. I feel there is much more to be learned about bluebirds.....and that is only one species! Never, ever think you have found all there is to know about the blues. Nature, has a way of surprising us! I really do get tired of it when people use the dumb excuse, "We are not native either, how would you have liked it if you were trapped by the Indians?" WHAT?? Never thought I would here a excuse like that! I will downset that to. Indians were not native to this land either. Nope. Look at your history book and you will see. Came from Russia some think. I am no historian and don't wish to be but I know from what I have read. Better be glad you are #1 on the food chain! I sure am! Any questions, comments, or complaints should be sent to the e-mail address above. You know where to find me.

Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 15:50:20 -0500
From: "Hummingbird" lilwings"at"centurytel.net
To: BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: what did that have to do with bluebirding?? I'm outta here..

following is a letter I just sent to Kevin Bloom. Thank you all for the information shared in the short time I was on this list, but I will be unsubscribing after I post this.. good luck with your bluebirds and happy birding to all....Cindy in Pinconning

well, this isn't going to be bluebird related, but rather American Indian related. I *am* an American Indian and the TRUE history of my people, the
Osage and Cherokee, shows that they were indeed trapped and even murdered by greed. The origins of American Indians is PURE speculation and I'm totally offended by suggesting that "history books" will show us the true nature of the Indians. Wrong. History has always been altered to fit the illusion. This is not a letter of "excuse" this letter comes from an American Indian who has listened to her ancestors for years relate REAL well to being on the brink of extinction, like the bluebird. Nothing gets under my skin faster than someone who has "heard" this and that about the Indian telling us like it is. And what does your comment "dumb excuse" mean? Visit a reservation and tell the people living there in poverty just how many excuses they've heard. It never ceases to amaze me just how prejudice people can be. I joined this list to share information about bluebirds, not to hear my people talked about as "dumb excuses". Enuff said.

Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 21:33:05 -0500
From: Wendell Long mrsimple"at"go-concepts.com
To: bluebird-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: what motivates list birdpeople to action?

Folks of the bluebird-L: Now and then someone raises the question on the list as to why we do what we do? Seems many times the discussion falls under three reasons?

1. We bluebird for our own amusement.
2. We bluebird in order to help the bluebird.
3. We bluebird in order to help the bluebird for our own amusement.

Then there is a small 4th estate of us who bluebird in order to meet warmhearted people and enjoy the process of making new friends with like values so we feel more at home among the villiages and towns of the internet. And we write things off topic sometimes and get called on the carpet by those with leadership talent.

In the whole process members feel the need for expression and want all of us to know right from wrong in our relationship with the bluebird, the mealworm, the cat etc. And they sally forth in helping themselves by helping us understand who we are and why we do what we do. And it helps them to know they have taught us something of value. And it helps us to value freedom even more. The final result is that we all arrive at either a warm fuzzy feeling or mad as $#%&* about something. Some of us may even say angry things such as thunderation!

I don't know much about birds compared to how much birds know about birds. But I do know something about cave dwellers-a form of cavity nester. And we the people do what we do out of so called self interest. We help the bluebird in order to help ourselves for whatever reason. Whether we take a peek or leave them alone, we do it for our own reasons. And the same applies to human nature--some will take a peek, some will manage us and some will leave us alone.

As for the bluebird he will do the best he can to make it through another day and night.

Wendell Long
Waynesville, Ohio

Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 00:41:01 EST
From: KCBSP"at"aol.com
To: mrsimple"at"go-concepts.com
Cc: Bluebird-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: what motivates list birdpeople to action?

In a Message dated 11/27/00 9:34:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, mrsimple"at"go-concepts.com writes:

Folks of the bluebird-L: Now and then someone raises the question on the
list as to why we do what we do? Seems many times the discussion falls
under three reasons?
1. We bluebird for our own amusement.
2. We bluebird in order to help the bluebird.
3. We bluebird in order to help the bluebird for our own
amusement.

Then there is a small 4th estate of us who bluebird in order to meet
warmhearted people and enjoy the process of making new friends with like
values so we feel more at home among the villiages and towns of the
internet. And we write things off topic sometimes and get called on the
carpet by those with leadership talent.
 

Hello Wendell and all

I think it takes all kinds of people.. and all kinds of talents! I fit in all the categories even the silly one now and then. The leader should bring them altogether.. and make the best use of all of the talents everyone has...and hopefully do his/her best to make it as harmonious as possible., which often gets tough. Some folks would rather be alone and do their own thing which is just as wonderful and should be respected. We all are working for the same goals in the end which is to help the bluebirds and the other cavity nesters. If we have fun along the way.. well to me that's great, and I don't believe people do things that aren't fun or give some sort of feedback to themselves.

Sometimes being in groups gets caught up in things that have nothing to do with the subject.. but that's part of it too! Just keep smiling.. and loving those birds! (wink)

Kathy Clark
New Cumberland, PA

Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 07:02:12 -0600
From: "Keith & Sandy Kridler" kridler"at"1starnet.com
To: "BLUEBIRD-L" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: monitoring and children

Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas

I had to sleep on this subject because everyone responding makes good points. Kathy Clark pretty well sums up the why to risk this with the birds.

OK if you have a public situation like a nature center then have a cabinet maker build a simple L shaped wood frame about 48" long and have the L dadoed to accept Plexiglas in the exact dimensions of your nestboxes. You should end up with a display case of about 1013 compartments. (Include larger ones for Purple Martin, Carolina wrens or Starling nests.) In my case they are 4&3/4"X4&3/4" X 10" tall. I have placed 6 species of cavity nesting bird nests, complete with unhatched eggs in the case. Some nests show that the birds had fledged and some were simply abandoned. Include flying squirrel nests or mouse nests if they are found in your area. I use a label explaining each nest near the bottom on the front of the Plexiglas and a color photo of the adult birds inside the nest compartment that has a nest of their eggs. Some are chickadee built over bluebird and vice versa. Explain the competition between species.

By building this display you no longer have to open native cavity nester boxes and show eggs in a box. You also don't have to worry about a rain out and this display is good for the entire year instead of 30 days. I constructed mine so that it looks as if the entire case is sealed but the top Plexiglas can be slipped back and out to change/add nests or eggs.   Before collecting nests or eggs be SURE and talk with your local game warden or other wildlife official!!!! Permits should be required for this project, some local officers will use common sense others don't. When I go give a bluebird seminar I literally take a pickup packed with boxes, poles, guards, traps, literature ETC. This case is the most popular people attractor and is often the only thing the children will remember about the program a year later!

At a nature center you should be able to get House Sparrows to nest very close to the building and these can be opened and even pass the eggs around to the children. I have found that almost 100% of these eggs will be broken by the first boy child that tries to pick up the egg...This can often teach an entire group how fragile an egg is! Water, soap and towels are needed near this show and tell area. You can often stage this and keep adding House Sparrow eggs to this box throughout the nesting season. Starlings can be attracted to a nestbox with a telescoping pole with the box placed about 8 feet off of the ground. This is another non protected species that makes a good show and tell example. They have very hard shells compared to House Sparrows and a beautiful sky blue egg.

Nesting bluebirds along a trail with young birds could safely be opened several times a day if you believe that the education gained could inspire one single person. I contracted bluebird fever at the age of 9 more than 30 years ago when my father lifted me up high enough to see the beauty in a clutch of 5 bluebird eggs. Had this not happened and he not shared this miracle of the universe with me for a few scant seconds I probably would not have gotten up "at" 5 AM today so I could spend an hour and a half writing this before getting ready for another 10 hour day at work.....Every person we touch and inspire with Bluebird Fever creates a ripple in the waters of life. At a very early age in my life, Larry Zeleny reached out with a simple letter and inspired me to help the bluebirds, W. G Duncan sent me newsletters, then Jack Finch, Ron Kingston, Mary Janetotos, Lil Files and dozens of other master bluebirders have reinforced and fed the flames of this fever over the years. I have seen a tiny ripple grow to a tidal wave that has spread coast to coast with the North American Bluebird Society steadily making waves.....Do your part! Share the joy of Bluebird Fever, try every day to make at least a tiny ripple! KK

Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 08:02:55 -0500
From: "Bruce Burdett" blueburd"at"srnet.com
To: BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Why do it?

Wendell, et al,

Some Wise Person, a while back, said: "Nobody ever does anything for just one reason." ('twarn't me, though I'm inclined to agree)   One of my reasons for doing the Bluebird thing could be called "Payback Time." Man has done so many horrendous things to desecrate our planet and its living universe that some of us, - those few who give a damn, - should do something, however small, to repair some part of the damage. I don't have the funds, the equipment, or the training to work on - say - Condor restoration. But Bluebird restoration is well within my capabilities if I try to educate myself, and if I get out there in the field and DO it.   (Another good idea, of course, is to do no harm.)

Other reasons: - I enjoy it, it's good exercise, I love to build things, I find that I make a lot of new friends, it keeps me out from underfoot in Peg's kitchen, my sites are often in beautiful places, there's a lot of mystery involved, there are always problems to be solved, my grandchildren love to monitor with me, it gets my picture in the paper, it isn't done for profit, it often makes lonely shut-ins happy, it keeps me away from the computer terminal, and it causes certain people to ask, "Why do you do it?"

Bruce Burdett, NH Bluebird Conspiracy, Sunapee NH
blueburd"at"srnet.com

Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 08:30:45 -0500
From: "Keith & Sandy Kridler" kridler"at"1starnet.com
To: "BLUEBIRD-L" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Mothers Day

Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas
HAPPY MOTHERS DAY!

Since we ALL seem to be mothers to our birds this goes out to the guys as well! Consider this a special thank you to everyone on the list. I think this is the most dedicated group of bluebirders in the country. You have stayed with the list through good and bad, have put up with massive digests somedays and have had to ward off or remove several computer viruses. Just remember that when we experience something annoying or time consuming when dealing with the list, that this is similar to the hazards and problems the birds experience EVERY day! Many have been robbed of their time fixing or removing this latest virus.

Just remember that the bluebirds when they lose a nest close to fledging that they have in effect given up at least a month of their lives! Put in "human" years equivalent this is very close to 6&1/2 years! (Based on 12 month "average" life. I base this on from eggs laid as 20% end in miscarriage, they don't hatch. Predators take a tremendous amount of eggs and young as in 1979 I believe 13% of all eastern bluebird eggs were reportedly destroyed by House Wrens (mostly a problem only in the northeast) or were blamed on them. Throw in weather and normal dangers after fledging and you lose most of the birds in 12 months.)

In my programs I stress that when a bluebird hatches, each day in their life is now like a year in a humans! Sure they can leave the nest at 18 days BUT then they need to go to "college" (home schooling in this case) for 10 years (days) just to learn how to find food, avoid danger and be responsible enough to even feed themselves! Before they leave and go to a "foreign" land away from all friends and family and raise their own young they normally stay as a family group in southern states and do not really "leave home" until just before nesting season! [In Harry Krueger's banding study in Northeast Texas a male eastern bluebird that fledged in August mated and began raising young with a 2 year old female the following March less than 7 months from the time it fledged! With color banding he determined that most groups (515) of bluebirds seen in our part of Texas during winter months were the surviving parents and their young. We DO NOT see the adults drive away young from a first nesting while they renest as many on this list in the north report. If I believe 5 young fledge but never see any with the adults then I feel the young were ALL lost either right before fledging or after they left the nest!]

We need to place the best boxes, the best poles and the most effective guards for these birds to nest in so that they are NOT wasting their time. We have to expect losses! Balance effort and money spent on the perfect box/guard combination and realize that for some people increasing time, money and effort 500% you might only increase fledging 5%! (Off the Cornell site there is a link where $200+ nestboxes can be bought. Add in a "perfect" guard/pole combination and will you raise more from this one high priced nestbox site or from 100 $2 nestboxes you build yourself and attach to free poles?)

This post took two cups of coffee and another hour of my life. I figure 20% on this list have already permanently blocked any post coming from me. Another 20% never even open them up. Few will survive all the way to the end and actually be able to use even a little information but we need to look at
each loss of eggs, young or heaven forbid the loss of adults as a terrible waste of time for the species we so dearly want to "Mother along" into the next century! KK

Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 10:33:14 -0400
From: Tina Phillips cbp6"at"cornell.edu
To: Bluebird-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: In response to all the violence

Hi all, I am forwarding my Message to Nestbox-L to this list as well because I think both lists have gotten out of control with all the violence against native and non-native birds. I am starting to wonder how peaceful a group of people we really are....

It is hard for me to know where to begin on this subject, as everyone has their own personal, moral, and ethical views of which I can not change. In running these list serves now for three years, I have realized that people will say anything they care to say especially when their anonymity is preserved and they have a large audience. I also do not have the power to stop people from thinking or acting on those thoughts. However, I want to make perfectly clear, Cornell does NOT promote violence of any sort against native species. Unfortunately, we can not control what people think and do, and it is unrealistic to think that we can.

I too am dismayed at the violent undertones not only on this list serve, but also on Bluebird-L. This is no way to spread the word and educate people about our cause to conserve native cavity-nesting birds. On the contrary, it creates an air of opposition from others who think we have all gone mad for the sake of one or two "desirable" birds.

Yes I agree whole heartedly with Nancy and Karen snakes, raccoons, opossums, wasp, bees, even HOSP and EUST, have their place in this world. We are not here to pick and choose our species of choice. However, I also agree with John that if you are providing an artificial site for nesting birds, and you have known predator problems, then predator guards should be installed. If predators get through your guards, they have just done what is instinctual for them there is no need for humans to seek vengeance on an animal because it eats another that we are fond of. Natural predators are not our enemies. They are playing a vital role in the evolution of species, they are not only to be accepted as such but also respected for their ability to survive through the ages. The birds we see around us every day are also survivors, they have survived predators and they are surviving the impact of humans. I don't ever hear anyone showing sympathy for the countless insects, grubs, and future butterflies that a bluebird consumes. In one way or another, every living thing relies on other living things to survive. If we continue to tamper with that balance won't it eventually backfire on us? I think so.

And if you don't think snakes and other "undesirables" have a hard time surviving, think again. I have spent the better part of my adult life as a science educator trying to convince people that snakes are valuable. Most of the time, it is futile and I often hear things like "the only good snake is a dead snake..." I would like to emphasize to everyone on this list, that this is a public forum and not every one is comfortable with killing of native or even non-native species. If you kill something for the sake of "your" birds, please keep it to yourself. The rest of us don't need to hear about it.

And yes, there is way to much anthropomorphism going on in both lists. These birds are not our babies, not our pets. They are wild birds and they deserve to live a wild existence, even if that means becoming prey to some other living creature. Nancy, you are absolutely right, we are nothing more than observers and interpreters in all of this. Intervention on our parts should be held to an absolute minimum and should involve anything more than checking a nest box once or twice a week and recording what we see. It is not in The Birdhouse Network's protocol to change the fate of any nesting attempt. I absolutely cringe when I hear people taking birds out of their nest and bringing them inside their homes, and rebuilding their nest just because a few grubs or insects were present! PLEASE, for the sake of the birds, this list, and our efforts to collect MEANINGFUL data, do not tamper with the nest, eggs, or nestlings of any federally protected species. It's against the law. Period.

In order to keep this list open and public, it is up to each of us to use caution and discretion about what we write. This list is a place for each of us to educate one another about our nest box monitoring experiences. I don't think this needs to be a further topic of discussion among the list members, but the next time you post a Message, ask yourself, "Is there something worthwhile to be learned by my post?"

Thanks for listening,

Tina Phillips

At 09:40 PM 5/17/01 -0500, you wrote:

This is my first year on the Nestbox List. I am dismayed to see the dialogue going the same direction the Feederwatch List took at one point last winter. We Humans are responsible for the decline in EBB numbers for a variety of reasons. Blessed with intelligence it is our responsibility to try to remedy same. If our artificial nesting facilities make the birds MORE vulnerable to natural predators, I believe we should make a reasonable attempt to provide protection in some form. This does not include killing those predators willy nilly. Each person has to use their conscience and some common sense. As was mentioned repeatedly on PFW-L only European Starlins and House Sparrows can be legally killed- an individual decision.

Here in So. Minnesota snakes as bird house predators are not much of a problem. Where they are capture and relocation would seem to be a reasonable alternative. That snakes do more good than harm is indisputable. I hate what cowbirds do, but history will tell you that we are responsible and there isn't anything we can do about it. I carry on a love-hate relationship with what sometimes seems like an infestation of House Wrens. They have destroyed BCC and EBB nests, but by lessening competition by better spacing of boxes the problem has gone away. The love part? They are the easiest of my birds to observe at length during the nest building process. What could be more amazing than watch this tiny bird figure out how to get a 10 inch stick through a 1 1/8 inch hole. Or seeing one bird place a stick in the house only to see the other immediatly remove it? I believe we are as much a part of nature as the birds,mice,snakes, and every other living thing. We have not always made the right decisions in regard to our environment and we should do what we can to rectify problems we have caused. A few people will never get it, but remember only a few mosquitos bite and fewer yet spread disease. Am I comparing the intelligence of those mosquitos with that of environmentally irresponsible humans? Yeah.

John Nelson Good Thunder MN

Tina Phillips
The Birdhouse Network
Cornell Lab of Ornithology
159 Sapsucker Woods Rd.
Ithaca, NY 14850

(607)254-2482
cbp6"at"cornell.edu
http://birds.cornell.edu/birdhouse

Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 14:05:15 -0500
From: "Ted and Linda Loomis" loomis4"at"socencom.net
To: cbp6"at"cornell.edu (Costanza B. Phillips)
Cc: "BLUEBIRD" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: In response to all the violence

There is the same anti-violence sentiment out here in Kansas on the KSBIRD listserver, if that makes you feel any better. However, I personally don't agree with some of the folks who have a problem with exterminating exotic species. I will say a word for us "Bubbas" out here on the prairie. There are many hunters out here on the Great Plains , my husband included. We humans are predators at the top of the food chain. I eat venison, pheasant, a variety of ducks and a few quail or dove. Wild game meat has no antibiotics or growth hormones and is therefore better for you.

We humans messed up the balance of nature with our incezzznt and overwhelming biological activities. It is therefore, our duty to take PRUDENT action to try to rectify the problems we create. We have an overpopulation of deer all across this country because our state agencies controlled the taking of deer with fewer deer tags. Same goes for snow geese and canadian geese. Now these species have grown to nuisance numbers. We, the predators, must do our part.

So............ lets eat some prey and thank the lord for our healthy food.

Oh, and try to do your part to control the human population growth problem - practice protected sex even if you are married.

And, finally, do your part to rid your little corner of the world of house sparrows and starlings and to discourage house wrens and cowbirds.

Linda Loomis

----- Original Message -----
From: Tina Phillips
To: Bluebird-L"at"cornell.edu
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2001 9:33 AM
Subject: In response to all the violence

...

Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 17:10:45 -0400
From: Mike Powers mep42"at"cornell.edu
To: Bluebird-l"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Act, Don't React

Hi Nest-box monitors,

I would like to follow up Tina's letter to emphasize some of the points she made. The impression one can get from reading many of these posts is that nest-box monitors place nest boxes in anticipation of one or two favored species, and any others are unwelcome residents. While action against unexpected residents is warranted in some cases (exotic species), there are always considerations that need to be made.

We absolutely recommend nest-box monitors take appropriate actions against predators and competitors, whether they have had problems in the past or not. Installing guards to thwart predators is a must. Preemptive actions, such as restricted entrance hole size to dissuade the non-native European Starling, are also appropriate. However, retaliations against something you didn't expect need to be thought out carefully before any action is taken.

As already discussed on this list, a failed nest is a heart-breaking event. Unfortunately, that is the way nature works, whether it's due to parents abandoning the nest, a predator skirting guards, or another species taking over the nest. As a good friend likes to say, "Act, don't react." Pulling a snake out of a nest box and destroying it is not an appropriate action, it is a reaction done in the heat of the moment. An appropriate action would be to asses *how* it happened, then step up the predator guards, or move the box to a safer place. Let's face it, the snake isn't to blame, the inadequate predator guards (or lack thereof) are.

House Wrens destroy eggs found in cavities on their territory. That is what they do, evolutionary pressures resulted in this behavior. If you look at it from the wren's perspective, it's a brilliant way to remove future competition for food in the area. Looking at it from the victim's point of view, of course, is tragic. Keep in mind that the wren is not to blame, and the reaction to destroy the House Wren is not only inappropriate, it is illegal. In fact, until you find the actual nest the wrens are using, it is illegal to remove the sticks it is placing in your nest box. If you are adamant about not providing nest sites for wrens, you should move your nest boxes to a habitat that does not attract them.

I can't count how many hours I have spent on the phone in the past year talking about the "less desirable" species. Dozens of folks call wondering how to get rid of Tree Swallows because that's not the bird they wanted, they want bluebirds. But remember: when we place nest boxes, we don't get to pick what species gets to use it. By following habitat guidelines, though, sometimes you get what you expected. If you find yourself consistently attracting species you don't want, reassess your nest box placement, and consider moving your nest boxes to more appropriate habitat.

One final note: I completely understand the shock, hurt and frustration a nest-box monitor feels when something happens to "their" birds. I've lost my fair share, due to predation, bad weather, abandonment, etc. If you do lose a nest, and you do react badly, *please* do not post your reactions to the list! I appreciate the need to let people know what you went through, it is consoling, but this list is not the place to describe the gory details of how you dispatched a snake or how you plan to eliminate competing, protected species from your trail. If you are venting, please do not post to Bluebird-L. If your post contributes something new to a discussion, please do.

I'm off to check my boxes, hope you all have a great weekend!

Regards,
Mike
Michael Powers
Bluebird-L Listowner

Cornell Lab of Ornithology
159 Sapsucker Woods Road
Ithaca, NY 14850

mep42"at"cornell.edu
(607) 254-2416

Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 18:03:48 -0400
From: Bill & Dot Forrester wforres1"at"twcny.rr.com
To: bluebird-l bluebird-l"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Act, Don't React

Mike has said what badly needed to be said. Respect for nature, ALL of it, is the key. We must not kill off every bluebird predator or competitor for the
sole reason of expanding bluebird populations. Non-native species like starlings and house sparrows are the only legal exception, for the simple reason that our native birds have not had 1000s of years to work out a natural coexistence with these species. It is nature's way that predator and victim work out a system of checks and balances over time to keep both of them thriving. It is extremely unreasonable to expect every bluebird nesting to be successful. Snakes, raccoons, hawks, and other bluebird destroyers are every bit as important to the balance of nature as bluebirds are. We should place our boxes in proper habitat and with proper guards, and stand back. Sometimes I think we are trying to play at being God when we destroy any native species who dares to interfere with bluebirds. As has been said before, they are not "our" bluebirds, and we show nothing but contempt for nature when we arbitrarily kill anything that preys on them.

Dot

Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 12:17:49 -0500
From: "Jim McLochlin" bluebirdbox"at"cox.net
To: "Bluebird-L" bluebird-l"at"cornell.edu
Subject: mid summer things - thinking about the year

Although it is mid-summer for us it is late in the season as far as nesting goes.

On my trail the bluebirds have, for the most part, laid their last eggs for the year.

The wrens are busy trying to get one more attempt in, and will dump eggs in an almost completed nest. The wrens seem the most aggressive to me at this time of the season.

The house sparrows on the other hand seem to be the least aggressive. In fact I even see large house sparrow flocks (100+). It is almost as if they are getting ready for migration, but to where? Another part of the city perhaps, or maybe my house sparrows do migrate and the house sparrows I see in the fall and winter are from further north.

All the species I see on the trail and around the house are with young except for that late nester, the American Goldfinch. They are just reaching their peak around here and in full color and obviously busy with courtship and nest building.

This is the time of year I start thinking about how well (or poorly) my trail did for the year. I am hoping all those last eggs will fledge and it will be my best ever. Usually however a wren will mess up my plans and the year will be average. I think about what I could have done differently and how I can improve my trail. I usually plan to make my changes in the fall when things cool down, but most of the time I find myself rushing in the early spring just to get the trail where it should be and only make half the improvements I planned.

It's not over but it is getting close, enjoy your trail for the end is near.

Jim McLochlin
Omaha, NE

The Audubon Society of Omaha = http://audubon-omaha.org/ 
The Bluebird Box = http://audubon-omaha.org/bbbox/index.htm 
Omaha Web Solutions = http://www.omahawebsol.com 

From: "Keith & Sandy Kridler" kridler"at"1starnet.com
To: "BLUEBIRD-L" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: dealing with real problems
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 07:54:19 -0600
 

Morning folks! This is long but I think very important. Not so much about bluebirds but I believe we need to determine: What we are really doing, Why we are doing it and Where we are trying to go. Not so much for the entire bluebird movement but maybe to look into our own efforts and have an end of year evaluation! KK

As most of you know Texas is just kicking off their bluebird society and we are running into the same things other states have and are dealing with. NABS started small and grew to over 16,000 (?) during the peak when the movement was at it's strongest. As states came on line NABS lost members and some of the states even grew and then dwindled to nothing and ceased to exist....Part of the problem is that people join, get the information, restore their bluebirds and then drop out as they have "brought back the bluebirds!

As a group we need to be sharing the BEST ideas of getting and keeping members! How to motivate people to keep up their boxes and keep helping their neighbors to add other types of cavity nester boxes. This is NOT just about bluebirds but all life as everything is connected.

The following are some copied posts from our Texas Bluebird Society on how to deal with the growing movement in Texas where if something is not native or NOT already there DO NOT add it....At a time when we most need it NABS is at one of their lowest membership levels! We desperately need a national group to help all state groups compete for a voice in what is happening to our world around us! I was one of the first charter members of NABS to become a "Life Member". NUMBERS count when you go give talks and try to get funding or a project approved! The time is NOW to get up and join NABS AND your state or local group! Sure bluebirds are at an all time high BUT it will only take a decade of indifference or several horrific winters and they will be reduced once again to very low numbers! Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant Texas The following are copied posts!!!

In my meetings with other conservation groups it has become clear to me that they do not view the Bluebird as a threatened species and don’t understand why the emphasis on something that may in fact be over-abundant in some areas and is having its natural behavior modified more than it should.

from Pauline Tom

Yesterday I received results from a NABS survey that went to randomly selected members last month. I think the comment I cut and pasted below is worth us becoming aware of and educated about. This "only natural / no interference" reasoning is why we're having a difficult time selling Wildflower Center on allowing us to install 5 boxes. Perhaps there are areas in Texas where EABL population is "over-abundant". Because of our "across Texas" motto, we're part of something that's larger in scope - restoring bluebird populations where mankind has destroyed the population.

Can we systematically put TBS dollars / trails in areas that will be a systematically expand the population from areas where there is a significant population to areas where there is not? From breeding surveys, we have general idea of where highest populations are. Can we find spots that are just out of these high density spots and then deliberately target these areas? I don't know the answer. I'm asking the question. PTom

----- Original Message -----

From: Keith & Sandy Kridler
To: TexasBluebirds"at"yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2001 9:42 AM
Subject: [TexasBluebirds] Re: : "over-abundant in some areas and having its natural behavior modified"

The time to save a species and learn about it is when it is at it's peak with the most gene diversity and occupies the most habitat. For example the 1884 Cyclopedia I quoted to the bluebird-L about bluebirds also mentioned the "millions" of buffalo in America that stretched from Texas to Canada and New Mexico & Montana to east of the Mississippi.

After the facts were written in the 1870's it took 5 years to publish the book and the last of the southern bison herd was exterminated in Taylor county Texas in 1884! Just about the time the book was being printed! Two tiny groups were saved on the Goodnight ranch and a couple other ranches....

What about the passenger pigeon going from the most numerous bird in 1820 to extinction in the 1930's. As I write they are capturing and crating up lost Whooping cranes that can't keep up and migrate with the new eastern flock that is supposed to go to Florida and two of the cranes are now riding to Florida in the back of a truck. Is this the way to save a species??? About a 100 of the whooping cranes they foster parented with sandhill cranes in the 1980's BELIEVE they are sandhill's and refuse to mate with other whooping cranes!

While in Ohio this summer they shot and killed a black bear because it continued to bother humans. The quote from the Ohio Fish and Game giving the reason for their shooting it was that there was NO longer enough habitat for the 40 black bears still in the state. No other state nearby had room for another bear! They were going to reduce the current number or "manage" (save?) 35 bears in the state to keep from having confrontation. How many MILLION people live in Ohio?

By having nearly everyone able to observe the entire life of the bluebird we make them aware that most birds do NOT nest in the safety of a nestbox. They do NOT have people installing predator proof mounting poles or grease to save nestlings from fire ants. They do NOT have people changing wet nests everytime it rains or rushing out to feed them mealworms as soon as they come into their yard. Do we install jay & squirrel proof netting to save eggs of all of the smaller birds? Do we find every nest and remove every cowbird egg for all other open nesting birds?

If it is hard to increase the bluebird population at the edge of ideal habitat doing ALL of the above then what is happening to the other birds! THIS is the point we need to stress to those who believe in non-interference.

They have their heads in the sand as this will work ONLY if humans will stop ALL new land gobbling. NO new roads, lakes or houses and make them live off of the land they already have and use. THIS is not going to happen so we need to be exposing kids and adults to the wonder of nature and NO other native bird can be utilized in this way as the bluebird can. KK

Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 20:05:39 -0800
From: Linda Violett lviolett"at"earthlink.net
To: "Bluebird-L"at"cornell.edu" (BLUEBIRD-L) Bluebird-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: dealing with real problems
 

Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif.

We're buying time, Keith.
You know it in Texas.
I know it in Calif.

There is common saying that goes something like this:

"If you want to see America tomorrow, look at California today."

For those of you who haven't seen my So. Calif. trail, click below: http://terraserver.homeadvisor.msn.com/image.asp?S=13&T=1&X=268&Y=2343&Z=11&W=0 

My trail of nestboxes in central Yorba Linda is finite. There will be no more green space to add more boxes in central Yorba Linda . . . no matter how many young people get educated/recruited and no matter how many members belong to NABS. The land is gone so now we are in the process of "infilling" so we can squeeze in more people.

The problem is political and I really don't think politics should be part of this forum.

Just keep in mind that America is experiencing the longest sustained wave of mass immigration this nation has ever experienced with no end in sight and no penalties for those who will not wait to come legally.

They are allowed to do so. Let's not slap both hands to our cheeks with an expression of surprise at what's happening to our wildlife and pretend it's because there are not enough people involved.

My birthplace was overwhelmed decades ago and the majority of native-born Americans surrendered the area and moved to the next city . . . and it continues . . . unrelentlessly.

If you clicked on the overview of my trail (given above) it is considered "semi-rural" by the locals.

Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 19:21:40 -0800 (PST)
From: Darrell bluebird_monitor"at"go.com
Subject: Conservation
To: BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu (BLUEBIRD-L)

Ok, here's one for you all into bluebirding....

we all like to see bluebirds in sight, or even in our backyards...but what are we really doing??? Are we making these bluebirds dependent just like the Purple Martin, totally dependant on us humans for shelter(nesting)? Why aren't we trying to save land suitable for bluebirds and let them take care of themselves like they did before WE got invovled??? HOW many organizations can say that they are helping the bluebird to be on its own? WHAT...don't want to give up like a parent does to their children, to be independent...not depending on the parent? We need to help to find land for bluebirds to live on their own. That should be the goal of ALL bluebirs organizations...not just puttin up bluebird nesting boxes and monitoring them. Darrell Stark County Coordinator Ohio Bluebird Society

___________________________________________________

From: "Bruce Johnson" bjohnso3"at"midsouth.rr.com
To: bluebird_monitor"at"go.com, "BLUEBIRD-L" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Conservation
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 23:40:20 -0600

Snip

we all like to see bluebirds in sight, or even in our backyards...but what are we really doing??? Are we making these bluebirds dependent just like the Purple Martin, totally dependant on us humans for shelter(nesting)? Why aren't we trying to save land suitable for bluebirds and let them take care of themselves like they did before WE got invovled??? Snip

Hello Darrell and all -

You pose a good question. If we were all wealthy like Bill Gates we really could make a difference and create a lot of suitable habitat for wildlife. Probably most of our group are in the same shape that I am and if we liquidated everything we have accumulated and turned it into cash we could purchase a few acres and make a little difference.

Hopefully doing what little I can in my neighborhood along with the little influence I have on my friends, my support of NABBS and other worthwhile organizations, while trying to educate myself and our lawmakers about wise decisions, is about all I'm inclined to do. Although it is a daunting task, never in the history of this nation have we had so many people dedicated to these worthy causes. Maybe if we can't buy thousands of acres of land we can do other things that will help mother earth.

I have spent hundreds of hours studying bluebirds up close. Given a few thousand years you might domesticate bluebirds. All the birds I have observed and worked with have without exception remained as independent as ever. They are smart enough to take advantage of situations that benefit them for a short time while remaining as wild and beautiful as ever.

Best regards,

Bruce Johnson ~ Life Mbr. NABS
2795 Long Oak Drive
Germantown TN Lat. 35.087ºN Lon. 89.810ºW

Sometimes we are the pigeon and sometimes we are the statue.

----- Original Message -----

From: "Darrell" bluebird_monitor"at"go.com
To: "BLUEBIRD-L" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2001 9:21 PM
Subject: Conservation

...

Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 00:41:25 -0500
To: bluebird_monitor"at"go.com, BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu (BLUEBIRD-L)
From: Wendell Long mrsimple"at"go-concepts.com
Subject: Re: Conservation

At 07:21 PM 11/25/2001 -0800, Darrell wrote:

Ok, here's one for you all into bluebirding....

...

Darrell,

Thank you for your interesting and thoughtful recommendations as to what everyone should be doing in his relationship with the bluebird. I think your letter will generate some worthwhile discussion on the list. I see you are a Coordinator and I suspect you know a lot of history and  have a real interest in conservation, nature and wildlife as most of the members and leaders of the bluebird list, NABS and Cornell Lab. have. But, please forgive me, I don't want to sound arrogant, however do your really believe it is that simple. Now, I am one who values simple solutions and I like to think of myself as one who lives a simple life. But bringing back and saving any species appears to me to be a very complex problem that boggles the mind. Including saving the human species from extinction as one of the most complex. I think all in all the insect has the best chance.

I try to conserve as much land as I can and let it return to Nature. I don't have much to conserve but the more it returns to nature the fewer bluebirds I see and the more I mow the greater the number of bluebirds move into their temporary housing. But I would not recommend cutting grass as the only way to help the bluebird. In fact it probably helps my tractor repair man more and he in turns helps the local retail mall who in turn helps the sign manufacturer who houses lots of sparrow and helps starling who don't do much to help the bluebird. It all gets very confusing if one is allowed to think too much.

But we are lucky in one way and that is we happen to have one gentleman on this list who perhaps understands your letter better than all of us put together. I would guess he knows more about and cares more deeply about the bluebird than all the organizations, universities, foundations, governments and even my own Wendell Long Institute and he has done more to learn and teach all of us than any one individual I know. I feel sure you have read his post and ezzzys and know that I speak of Mr Keith Kridler of the great lone star state of Texas. (I hope this does not embarrass him for he is a rather shy person I would guess).

You may not agree with all Mr. Kridler has to say, but I think any fair minded person will have to admit, he has the facts, numbers, history and mature judgement working for him as far as his writing goes.

Now of course, when you leave the citizen scientist we have the Cornell Lab with all its resources and research to help guide us, and we know that a PhD does not come as a gift out of kindness but is earned the old fashioned way by rigorous study and hard work.

Notwithstanding all the foregoing, I for one would be interested in your posting for all our mutual benefit, your sources and just how you happened to arrive at such a simple solution to a complex problem.

While I like conservation, at the same time I enjoy a path in the woods, even though it costs the life of several weeds, as many city folk have learned to call wildflowers. Nature is filled with sacrifice and I'll be darned at my advanced age of almost 70 years I have yet to learn how it can be avoided completely.

Now Darrell, the place where you lost my following is where you advise us as to what should be the goal of every organization. Since I believe in the value that diversity brings to life I start to fear the person who decides as to what I should have as my goal. Let me suggest that we reach consensus and you allow me my goal and I allow you your goal. And at the fork of the path we take the one best for each.

Thanks again for posting a good letter for debate among those of us interested in conserving resources.

Respectfully,
Wendell Long
Waynesville, Ohio

PS: Yes it is hard to let the children go. Especially difficult should they not be choosing to walk the path of freedom. And should they not be free from pain.

PSS:

Short End

As the bluebird flew away
She looked back to her mate as if to say
Why does he suddenly fly so low
And why was it so hard for him to let go.

The fledglings are grown and on their own
His dog is chewing on the best soup bone
The corn is in the crib and all is buttoned down
Yet, I feel his yearning for me to hang around

Maybe the old fool loves me after all
Wonder should I stay until next fall
We could have a good winter season
Just holding hands and a little squeezen

But what if it gets too cold for me to survive
Well, at least I know that he will be alive
For he will have a nice warm bluebird box
I may want to go underground with the fox.

And if I don't make it in Ohio on my own
Who gets the short end of my pulley bone.

Wendell Long

From: "Maynard Sumner" msumner6"at"home.com
To: "Blue bird-list" bluebird-l"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Conservation
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 14:30:44 -0500

I am with Bruce and Wendell on this. I do not have a lot of money to get and set a side land. But I do try to make part of my land good habitat for wildlife. I am getting my backyard certify with National Wildlife Federation. If you would like to do this go to www.nwf.org

Maynard Sumner
Flint, MI
43.075046 N -083.607782 W
Elev. 630 Zone 5

NABS MBS GAS OBS OBC NAHC NAFC

Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
Galatians 6:7

From: "judymellin" judymellin"at"netzero.net
To: "BLUEBIRD-L" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Conservation
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 19:59:50 -0800

Darrell- I will tell you that my personal commitment is to live long enough to take down all the houses on my trail and have the blues nest in their natural habitat in tree cavities. If we ever go five years with the boxes not being used, down they will come!

But I know that this is not a realistic hope. We are all stewards in our own way, some just on a larger scale than others. We all share the same commitment and the same love of winged critters, some one species and some many.

In the Chicagoland area, the Forest Preserve District of Cook County owns 11% of the land in the county. Yes, that figure is correct if mind boggling. But large holdings of land do not an ideal environment make.

My trial sits on a 150 acre grassland that is part of a 400 contiguous acre forest preserve. The group I volunteer with has been working to turn this site back to woodland, wetland and grassland as it was before the settlers arrived. While this sounds like an ideal situation to achieve what Darrell is talking about, there are many roadblocks in our way.

We have monetary constraints and political roadblocks. We have people who oppose any changes in the land and neighborhood pressure not to burn. We have many marvelous old, dead oaks that could be wonderful nest sites but several of them are scheduled to be removed because they overhang a horse trail and could be a hazard.

Do I wish it were different and that we could do what we feel is best for the land and all the creatures that inhabit it? That goes without saying but reality intrudes.

If we all do our part in whatever way we can, we have made the world a better place for man and animal alike. And we can be proud of what we are accomplishing rather than disappointed about what cannot be.

Judy Mellin
NE IL.

Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 22:46:14 -0400
From: Haleya Priest mablue"at"gis.net
To: judymellin"at"netzero.net
CC: BLUEBIRD-L BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Conservation

Haleya Priest Amherst MA

Dear Judy,

I don't know if this is good news or not - interesting at least - but my blues were bullied from their box this last spring by a male mocker. They chose a natural cavity in the back yard. However, after their first successful nesting, they opted back to the nest box (mocker had other pressing things on his mind), and raised two successful broods from the box. :-) H

judymellin wrote:

Darrell- I will tell you that my personal commitment is to live long

...

From: "Bruce Burdett" blueburd"at"srnet.com
To: BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu (BLUEBIRD-L)
Subject: Undeveloped land.
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 21:33:39 -0500

To: Darrell, et al,

Here in NH, vast acreages of land in the northern half of the state are undeveloped and solidly forested. Two townships that I know of have populations of zero - no human residents. But there are no Bluebirds to be found there because these tracts lack the open country that Bluebirds require. In order to make this wilderness suitable for Bluebirds, man would have to CREATE habitat by cutting out and clearing open places. The same must be true in forested regions of the Northwest U.S.

Of course, many species of birds that prefer to nest in forests abound there, but that doesn't help the Bluebird. Most of the serious Bluebird nesting in NH occurs in the more inhabited areas where man has created farms, fields, meadows, pastures, and even large lawns. In these areas, natural nesting cavities are almost non-existent, so the Bluebirds must rely heavily on the boxes that people put up for them.

Bruce Burdett, in SW NH

From: "Gilliam, Jay" jay.gilliam"at"pioneer.com
To: "'BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu'" (BLUEBIRD-L) BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Conservation/Reestablishment of Habitat
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 08:49:55 -0600
 

Darrell and all---

I think it is a good idea to invest contributions to organizations that promote the reestablishment of habitat. I just don't think NABS is the place to do it. I can't recall reading anything about NABS purchasing land to establish new habitats. I just don't think that is one of the goals of NABS. If you want to put your money towards this cause, a couple of organizations that come to mind are Ducks Unlimited and Pheasants Forever. Sure these are hunter-based organizations but hunters were the first conservationists to come about!! Ducks Unlimited has purchased more land to reestablish/conserve habitat than any other group that I know of. There is also the Audubon Society and other similar groups that may do this (Sierra Club, NWF??).

Jay Gilliam
Norwalk, IA

From: "Bruce Johnson" bjohnso3"at"midsouth.rr.com
To: jay.gilliam"at"pioneer.com, BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu (BLUEBIRD-L)
Subject: Re: Conservation/Reestablishment of Habitat
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 14:06:35 -0600
 

Snip

I think it is a good idea to invest contributions to organizations that promote the reestablishment of habitat. I just don't think NABS is the place to do it. I can't recall reading anything about NABS purchasing land to establish new habitats. I just don't think that is one of the goals of NABS. Snip

Hello all -

It's certainly no a bad idea to support Ducks Unlimited or a lot of other worthy causes, but if you want to help an organization that is dedicated to and has the bluebirds welfare as it's number one reason for existence why not help support NABS.

I know quite a bit about DU since they sold my company's nature products. At that time (1999) their goal was for a million members by the year 2000. So you see you are talking about a big time operation, I mean huge. They probably spend as much on postage each month as NABS entire yearly budget.

Am I down on DU, No Way, theirs is a worthy cause and all bluebird lovers have benefited from their efforts in conservation and habitat work. I would like to impress on bluebird lovers that we need to take care of an organization that should help us reach our goals. I have no reason to doubt that NABS is doing just that, if not then we need to hear about it and make any necessary changes.

One last paragraph to help put things in perspective. DU's headquarters are located about five minutes from me. It is a beautiful facility and a credit to their organization. If I remember correctly in their reception area they have an area with a list of donors and the amounts given. Some of these are a million dollars or more. Comparing NABS to DU is like comparing a bottle rocket to the space shuttle. The beauty of it is they both are benefiting all of us.

Best regards,

Bruce Johnson ~ Life Mbr. NABS
2795 Long Oak Drive
Germantown TN (Memphis)

"A person may dwell so long upon a
thought that it may take him prisoner."
-- Marquis of Halifax

----- Original Message -----

From: "Gilliam, Jay" jay.gilliam"at"pioneer.com
To: BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 8:49 AM
Subject: Conservation/Reestablishment of Habitat

...

From: Jennabirds"at"aol.com
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 10:15:47 EST
Subject: NABS VS Ducks Unlimited
To: Bluebird-L"at"cornell.edu (BLUEBIRD-L)
 

To all,

Being a board member as well as participating in the Membership committee for the North American Bluebird Society (NABS), I am very much interested in some feedback from this list serve as to your opinion of NABS and what you would like to see from NABS. Both positive and not so positive feedback is requested. We can't change or fix anything unless we know what our current members and potential future members are looking for in a nonprofit bluebird organization. Please e-mail me directly your responses. I'd rather keep this topic off of Bluebird-L

As for NABS VS Ducks Unlimited (DU). I was looking the DU website this morning. WOW. They have ~1200 times the income of NABS. If their membership goal of 1 million members was met, they also have ~285 times the membership, for a heck of a lot more dues. With the limited budget and income of NABS, we are trying to support and continue with native cavity nesting conservation and education. With the working capital and current assets that both organizations possess, it really isn't a fair comparison between NABS and DU.

I would like to personally thank everyone involved in bluebird conservation and ask that you continue the enthusiasm and passion that has jumped up and grabbed us all.

David A. Magness
Board Member - NABS

The Focus of Bluebirders and Bluebirding (Part 2)

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