|
Welcome to
The Bluebird Box
since 1995 |
Eggs - Clutch SizeDate: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 21:25:15 -0400 I checked my EABL box today and found two eggs. Will the female lay more eggs, or will the size of the second clutch be just two? The first clutch had five eggs, of which three fledged. Thanks in advance, Jim Krist From: "Emily Smith" emilys7"at"earthlink.net We have had two clutches thusfar from the same pair - five eggs apiece. I strongly suspect that your Lady BB will lay more eggs as two is an unusually small clutch. Normally she will lay one egg per day, usually in the morning, and then begin incubation on the day the last egg is laid or shortly thereafter. Good luck! Emily ----- Original Message ----- ... From: "eveningprimrose" primrose"at"lcii.net Hi Jim, I am getting to see a treat now. I started putting out mealworms again. I got
to see the Dad feeding one of the 25 day old babies Mon. night mouth to
mouth...pretty darn cute. I put out more mealworms twice today. I got some
blurry PIC's with my digital camera. I had to take them through the window
screen. I hope I can get better ones with my *real* camera in the future. I
wanted something STAT! though. Just now, I got to see 2 of the babies being fed,
but it was too dark for PIC's. I wonder how many of the 4 survived. For the
record, this female DID lay another clutch of perfectly white eggs. She may go
for a 4th clutch! Here's Dad dining from the pink Frisbee (yum) :-) Here he is feeding a chubby baby from MY very 1st nest of EABLs: http://www.switchplatesplus.com/picindex/BBDadBaby.jpg Lisa ----- Original Message ----- ... Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 07:09:06 -0500 At 09:25 PM 6/26/02 -0400, Jim Krist wrote: ... Often the second clutch will be five eggs also, sometimes only 4. Since egg-laying is going on, be sure not to check the nestbox early in the morning, so you don't disturb the process and cause her to lay elsewhere. Kate Oschwald From: "Dottie, Hickory Hollow, Brown County, Indiana"
yumyumkatts"at"voyager.net I had a second nesting of only three BB eggs. First time I have seen only three eggs in a nest so I didn't know what to expect. Did something happen to mom? Did mom and pop decide to nest elsewhere? Anyway, I'm happy to report that the three BB babies were hatching out yesterday and I saw mom BB near the box so I think all is well. Dottie, Hickory Hollow From: "emcooper" emcooper"at"bayou.com I have had only three eggs on more than on occasion. I think they say
anything below five eggs means a first time layer. The last two years though, it
has been mostly all five eggs in each nest. This year, two had four eggs the
second nesting cycle. Evelyn Cooper Delhi, La. ... Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 11:36:16 -0400 On 6/27/02 9:33 AM, emcooper wrote: I have had only three eggs on more than on occasion. I think they say ... Smaller clutch size can also indicate an older bird. Without banding data, it's hard to say just how old some of these females are. At the opposite end of the scale, my neighbor has a clutch of SIX that's currently being incubated. First time I've ever seen six in an EABL clutch. My fingers are crossed that they're all fertile, but time will tell. Brenda Nature Club of Central New York From: "emcooper" emcooper"at"bayou.com My information came from "Bluebirds!" by Grooms & Peterson on page 48 if others have the book. Evelyn Cooper ----- Original Message ----- ... From: "emcooper" emcooper"at"bayou.com In my information, it says second clutches are quite often smaller. It also says when the first clutch is small, it usually indicates a first time layer. My birds have really out done themselves this year as they all had five the first nesting cycle. The second nesting cycle, 2 had 4 and the rest had five. I have one on the third nesting cycle that had 5 eggs and three of them hatched this morning. Evelyn Cooper ... From: Mickeybjk"at"aol.com Our bluebird pair raised 5 in the first nest, 4 in the second nest, and laid 5 eggs in the third. About the time the third clutch was to hatch, I checked the box and all the eggs were gone. I am guessing a snake got them. I know they were there a couple of days before and there were no shells on the ground. I removed the nest and they built back again in a couple of days. There are two eggs in the nest now. I am wondering if it is likely that these eggs will hatch, since they were laid so quickly and it being the fourth clutch. Thanks for you help, Becky K. Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 14:49:31 -0500 **regarding*** In my information, it says second clutches are quite often smaller. It "Ann, I've found little difference on the number of eggs on first and second nesting. I think Keith hit the nail right on the head -- the females are all different, just as people. In GENERAL, females (Westerns or Mountains) lay 5-7 eggs either on first or second nesting." Erv, I have quoted you without permission........I trust you will forgive me for doing that! I band Eastern Bluebirds here on my trails in Southern Wisconsin. I recaptured a female Eastern Bluebird in April this year. I had banded her as a nestling about a half mile away on August 14th of 2001 (last year). Her mother, also recaptured this spring was nesting in the very same nestbox she had nested in the previous August. Both females had laid 6 egg clutches. So much for the theory that "first clutch being smaller indicates a first time layer!" (5 is a typical clutch size on my trails. 6 egg clutches are rare.) The lessons I have learned while monitoring my trails: Expect the unexpected. Ann Wick From: "judymellin" judymellin"at"netzero.net In The Birder's Handbook, Paul Ehrlich shows 4-5 as the "normal" clutch size but then indicates that they can range from 2-7. ... "Broods can derive from 1 female and/or 1 male, indicating less than total fidelity by both sexes and egg dumping by some females." In Birds of Field and Shore, John Eastman says: Female bluebirds fight fiercely against female interlopers. ... Yet bluebirds
rarely battle intruders of the opposite sex and this, together with a population
of unmated adults termed floaters, sets the stage for extrapair matings while
the nominal male is absent. Apparently, to judge from DNA analysis, a paired
male frequently mates with a single floater, which then invades the nest of the
paired female and lays an egg. Judy Mellin ... Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 08:57:29 -0500 Does anyone know if there is a correlation between the age of the BB female and number of eggs laid? (I apologize in advance if this has been previously covered as I am new to this list.) Thanks, From: "emcooper" emcooper"at"bayou.com Most all of the books I have read about it does state that it is most likely if the number of eggs is four or under it is a first time layer. However, some banders disagree and say they have evidence to prove differently. So, this is another one of those situations that I don't know what to believe. I have never had but 5 laid in mine and 2002 nesting season, the first cycle had 5 in every nest. Evelyn Cooper From: "Mary Beth Roen" mbroen"at"hotmail.com Hi All! My first nest this year contains 6 Eastern Bluebird eggs, I have kept records for 10 years so I went back to check how often I have had more than the usual 5. I have had nests of 6 three times in the last 10 years, and in 1994 I had a nest of 7. It is interesting that in 2 of these 5 large broods, I fed mealworms to the parents. Has anyone seen any studies on whether feeding mealworms increases the nutrition of the parents enough to allow bigger broods? I started feeding mealies early to this pair due to unusually cold weather. Mary Roen, River Falls, WI From: Horace Sher, hjsher1"at"yahoo.com Hello...1 of my boxes has 3 eggs being incubated.. 1st cycle. I know the documentation says 3-6 EABL eggs are laid... Someone told me that in the 1st cycle when fewer than 4 eggs are laid...that probably this is a young inexperienced bird..probably 1 year old as opposed to a 2 year or older in age. What do you think about that? Does that make sense? Horace in N. C. From:
Maynard R Sumner, m-r-sumner"at"juno.com One of my boxes at my house, as far I know without putting bands on them, has had the same male and female for four years. Each year they lay three eggs and two will have babies and one will not have a baby. The two babies are very fat when they fledge. I have some video of some of the babies looking out of the hole. Maynard Sumner Flint, MI From:
Evelyn Cooper, emcooper"at"bayou.com Horace, that is what all the books say. Last year, the first cycle every nest had 5 eggs in them (9). This year so far, they have either three or four and are incubating. I have 5 nests yet to have eggs. That must mean I have a bunch of first time layers if this is true. Evelyn Cooper Delhi, LA From: judymellin"at"netzero.net ...According to Cornell in their Nest Box Network Handbook, Paul Ehrlich in his Birder's Handbook, John Eastman and many others, clutch size is related to the age of the female but it varies based on how young or how old the bird is. Cornell cites one of the earliest studies of this correlation, that has been duplicated in a large number of studies, that was by Margaret Morse Nice in 1937. It showed that young females laid smaller clutches during their first breeding season and that very old females also laid smaller clutches. Her study also showed that, "within a population, temperature and time of egg-laying within the breeding season influenced clutch sizes. Cold weather reduced the size of the clutch and clutches laid later in the breeding season contained fewer eggs than clutches laid by the same individual earlier in the season." So, as with everything, there is no one answer. You might have very young or very old females or the weather could be playing a part. Judy Mellin NE IL. From: JOHN & BARBARA SIBIO, jsibio"at"comcast.net I've had bluebirds nesting in my garden for 13 seasons now, and I have found that the first clutch is usually 5 eggs. The second is 5, or sometimes 4. By then it is really hot here (100+) and the third clutch may be 2 or 3 eggs. I never knew the clutch size was related to the age of the female, but it makes sense. We didn't always have a third clutch, but when we did it was smaller than the first or second and I had to protect the nest box from the sun. Live and learn! Barbara in Cloverdale, CA From: Z28l981991"at"aol.com
From: JOHN & BARBARA SIBIO Wow! First time ever, (and this is our thirteenth season starting), we have six eggs! I just got to check the nest this afternoon because it was cold and foggy over the weekend and Mom never left the nest long enough for me to check. The eggs are beautiful, but it seems odd to see so many. One is sort of laying on the top of the pile. I'll be interested in whether they all hatch, and how this many chicks will do. Other seasons we usually have five the first nest, and the second or third nest can be five or less. Last year we had three nestings and the last nest only had two eggs. It gets REALLY hot here in the summer, so I'm surprised they even attempt the third one. The two chicks fledged, though, with a little help in the way of shade. This family unit consists of two males and the female, which is a first also. I don't know if the third is a juvenile from last fall, an uncle, or what, but they seem to be getting along fine. Maybe the extra male willl help out with feeding, and they sure will need help! Lots of bugs around now, lots of frogs singing in the creek, and all's right with the world here. Barbara in Cloverdale, CA From: Evelyn Cooper, emcooper"at"bayou.com hey will make it fine. I fostered an egg that a larger bird had tried to remove from the nest. It had fallen between the nest and door. The bird had removed all the others. The nest of six hatched beautifully. Quite a nest full though! Evelyn Cooper Delhi, LA From: Paula, PaulaZ"at"columbus.rr.com ...I must now present to you my pair of Super Bluebirds. I checked out my trail this evening again. They started laying on April 2 and today there are 6 eggs in the box. This is a first for me. I often get 5 eggs, but never 6. Now you are all thinking, Paula this is in the normal range of Bluebird egg laying, and I will concur. However, this is not the only superbird behavior they have exhibited. They have also built 6 nests. Now, the 6 eggs I speak of are all in one nest because even Super Bluebirds couldn't incubate 6 separate eggs in 6 separate nests. I have 6 boxes spaced about 25 feet apart at pond on my trail. They claimed all 6 boxes. They put a few strands in one; a couple of 1-inch nests; a couple of 2-inch nests; and finally their super beautiful 4-inch nest with the 6 eggs. I am calling them Lois and Clark. They are also the first birds on my trail or at home to complete a nest and start egg laying. .... Paula Z Powell (Central) Ohio From: Paula [mailto:PaulaZ"at"columbus.rr.com] I just checked my field notes for last couple of years and realize that I mispoke. In fact, I did have 6 eggs in this exact same box (Box #16 out of 21 boxes) on my trail for first brood in 2002. The difference is in 2002 they started nesting 2 weeks later. The brood in 2002 all hatched and fledged. I am a bit worried about this one because we have had some really cold nights, but time will tell. I wish I knew if this were the same pair - same box & same number of eggs - could be. Interesting observation though. Paula Z Powell (Central) Ohio From: Lawrence Herbert [mailto:lherbert"at"4state.com] I picked the EABL nesting year 2001 to see how many clutches of 6 eggs: Two clutches of six eggs for EABL out of 45 known. That would be 4.4 % for that nesting year. My trails are in sw Missouri and se Kansas. I already have two clutches of six eggs this year, so we're off to a good start. Someone suggested that research indicates that the older EABL may tend to lay larger clutches. I have read that also, but I'm not able to say where I have read that without some digging. Good birding, Larry H. Joplin MO. From: JOHN & BARBARA SIBIO [mailto:jsibio"at"comcast.net]
Since several of us have 6 egg clutches this year, maybe that's an indication that we're experiencing a surge in bluebird populations! I have only one nest in my garden, but over the year's I've had at least 30 nests and this is the first time there have been six eggs. Whatever the reason, let's rejoice! Barbara in Cloverdale, CA From: "Lawrence
Herbert" I picked the EABL nesting year 2001 to see how many clutches of 6 eggs: Two clutches of six eggs for EABL out of 45 known. That would > be 4.4 % for that nesting year. My trails are in sw Missouri and se Kansas. I already have two clutches of six eggs this year, so we're off to a good start. Someone suggested that research indicates that the older EABL may tend to lay larger clutches. I have read that also, but I'm not able to say where I have read that without some digging. Good birding, Larry H. Joplin MO. From: Kim Smith [mailto:kannsmith1"at"yahoo.com] From: John Schuster [mailto:wildwingco"at"earthlink.net] From: Phil Kenny [mailto:philkenny1"at"cox.net] Every time a pair has had a subsequent brood the number of eggs laid is one less then the previous brood's eggs. E.g. the pair may have a first brood with 6 eggs, second 5, and occasionally a third brood with 4 eggs. Over the weekend I checked my trail and discovered that a pair of Bluebirds that had laid 5 eggs in their first brood, laid 6 eggs for their second brood! I think this must be due to the enormous number of cicadas we have locally and what all that extra food translates into for the all of the birds. Of course, this could be a second pair that moved into the box after the first pair moved out, however, there are lots of other empty nestboxes on my trail in very similar habit, and the pair that has been using this box, has been using it for at least three years. I think it would be highly unlikely to have a second pair move in less then two weeks after the previous brood chicks fledged. Possible a new female? I'm curious if anyone else has experienced the egg number increasing from brood to brood, or if they have any anecdotal evidence of cicadas being good for Bluebirds. Phil Phil Kenny ... From: Shane&Emily Marcotte [mailto:marco50"at"bellsouth.net]
How do you know the pair has used it for 3 years? Shane Marcotte Watson Louisiana From: Lynn Ward [mailto:lWard"at"pmai.org] Hi Phil, Yes, I have had it happen this year. One particular pair on my trail has laid 6 eggs compared to the first clutch of 5. Normally, I don't have a decrease in the number of eggs, rather the same number is laid. We don't have cicadas in our area but this pair (& previous fledglings) like to come to my mealworm feeder so that may explain the increase in eggs. Lynn Ward South Central Michigan From: Elizabeth.D.Seward2"at"usdoj.gov [ mailto:Elizabeth.D.Seward2"at"usdoj.gov ] Phil and all-- A second nesting attempt in one of the nestboxes I monitor (suburban neighborhood) was begun a week after the first four nestlings fledged. The second nest has five eggs, an increase of one over the previous clutch. And even more interesting, all five eggs are white this time, whereas the first nest had blue eggs. I'm assuming it's the same pair, because they began the second nest right on schedule, and our neighborhood has only four or five bluebird pairs, all accounted for. But perhaps the female is new. Diane Seward (a digest subscriber), Potomac, Maryland
From: Kate Arnold [mailto:bbnestbox"at"1starnet.com]
Two possible explanations for a second clutch being larger than the first: 1. One egg in the first clutch could have been "dumped" somewhere, due to a female being startled off the nest while laying the egg and having to lay it somewhere else. 2. A different pair is using the nestbox this time Kate Arnold Paris, TX 100 mi NE of Dallas 33.6853N 95.6293W From: JOHN & BARBARA SIBIO [mailto:jsibio "at"comcast.net] Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 9:07 PM Subject: Egg Count I finally got to see the nest without the female on it! This is my third attempt to count the eggs since I found the first egg on March 28. She is certainly a diligent mom. Six eggs! It's amazing to me that since I've moved one hour north-west from my former home in Sonoma I routinely have nests with six eggs. In Sonoma, I would have four or maybe five, and sometimes only three at the end of the season. I wonder why? I'm not sure this is the same pair every season, since they are not banded, and I know the female has changed mates, because I watched that process on the second nesting last year. It's the six eggs that confounds me. Maybe the Sonoma bluebirds were wimps. I calculate today is day 11 of incubation, so I may have chicks this weekend. Tonight we are expecting frost and it is much cooler during the day (figures). It's supposed to warm up some on the weekend, and there is no rain in the forecast, so I'm hoping this clutch will make it. The first They sure are pretty little blue pearls! Barbara in Cloverdale, CA From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com] Today, I checked #8 and was I ever surprised. There were 6 beautiful blue bb eggs in there! In my eight years of bluebirding, this is the first time! I feel pretty sure there was no egg dumping. This is the pair that I saw on the power line about ¾ of a mile from the last nestbox on my trail. They were there all winter. I felt like they were some of mine just wandered further up the road. I talked my husband into putting up the nestbox at the new site there. They were on the power line around the curve from us as we were putting it up. They flew over to the power line closer to us and sat there like they were watching us. A couple of days later, I saw one of them sitting on top of it. Six eggs!!! Bluebirds make me so happy!!! :<)) [subsequent post] As we have learned on the List, six eggs are more common up in the northern part of our country. Some folks have reported them down here, but not as much. We have a report from Bobbie Boykin, Prairieville, LA (south LA) that she has six. Evelyn Cooper... From: Kathy [mailto:howbizr"at"gmail.com] Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 8:59 AM Subject: Re: Blue Grosbeak On 4/28/05, oinker"at"comcast.net <oinker"at"comcast.net> wrote: I was under the impression (from the Monitor book) that fewer eggs can suggest a younger female, as can a messier nest and other "mistakes," but not necessarily. Inversely, it seemed that some people had more eggs as a result of a bigger nest box, so maybe the size of the box could also be a factor (measure the interior X by X floor dimensions if curious)? Maybe it is the cold afterall, and she isn't eating that well, and that's as many eggs as she could lay. Or maybe birds just can't count. :) Kathy Haines From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com] Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 9:11 AM Subject: RE: Blue Grosbeak From previous posts on the List, some banders have dispelled the notion that fewer eggs mean younger females. Ann Wick has banded and she states that it can be an older female too. I certainly do not think floor size is the reason. I have six in my 4 x 4 floor and so does Kenny Kleinpeter, Baton Rouge and Bobbie Boykin, Prairieville. Also, a messier nest is certainly NOT the reason as last season, I had five bluebird eggs in every 14 nestbox on the first cycle and I have never had a clean nest after they fledged. It seems there are other reasons or maybe age, young and old could be included in the reasons. Most books I read say it is the younger female, but I do trust in Ann's observations and facts. Evelyn Cooper, ... From: Lawrence Herbert [mailto:lherbert"at"4state.com] Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 6:53 PM Subject: 6 egg clutches Kathy & Evelyn and Bluebirdsters: I've noticed over the years that 6 egg clutches tend to be expected on the first clutch of the season if they are going to So, I guess, there's another comment that I chimed in on and didn't know the answer! Six egg clutches are quite common in Kansas and Missouri for the EABL on the first cycle. I have about 5 to 10 % six egg clutches out there right now. I would guess that Ohio should be the same way, but not sure. Good birding, Larry H. Joplin MO. From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com] Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 7:05 PM Subject: RE: 6 egg clutches Larry, I posted about 13 days ago that I had my first clutch of six ever in my 8 years of bluebirding. Today, I checked the box and have 5 babies just hatched. I feel this pair is some of my birds just wandered further up the road as they sat on the power line and watched us put up the box and was seen on it the next day. Three days later it had a complete nest in it. This is Kenny's first nesting cycle at the Dairy Farm BB Trial and he has a nest with six eggs! I feel sure this is Bobbie Boykin's first clutch of six in Prairieville which is in south LA. She has been a bluebirder for several years. Evelyn From: EHDerry"at"aol.com [mailto:EHDerry"at"aol.com] I just returned last night from the New York State Bluebird Society Spring meeting. John Rogers, who monitors a large trail in central New York State, reported that he has this year, and has frequently seen in other years, 6 egg clutches. He stated that this is common in first nestings. From: jwick"at"tds.net [mailto:jwick"at"tds.net] Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2005 5:11 PM Subject: Re: 6 egg clutches Eastern Bluebird 6 egg clutches certainly happen more frequently in first nestings here in Southern Wisconsin, but I could not say they are common on my trails. :) Ann Wick From: Street Kelley [mailto:herbsho"at"earthlink.net] A neighbor has a BB box with seven eggs. This is the largest number of eggs I have seen in one nest. Thought you-all would find it interesting. From: agriffee [mailto:agriffee"at"adelphia.net] Last Thursday I observed a nest with 2 eggs, went by on Friday and BB was in box looking at me. Left her alone as figured was laying another egg. Out of town a few days and checked today (six days later) and there were only three eggs in box. What's going on? I expected to see four to six eggs with a sitting bird. Did not see the bird. From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 9:42 PM Subject: RE: BB egg laying procedure She only laid three eggs. They do not stay on them all the time to incubate. There is a wonderful book, "The Bluebird Monitor's Guide" that you can order on-line. I am sure you can order it from www.texasbluebirdsociety.org and www.nabluebirdsociety.org. I can buy it at a bookstore in a city near me. All of these questions are answered and many more. I have been bluebirding eight years, and I still read it all the time. I was advised when I was new at this to invest in a good bluebird book and I found them so interesting, I bought more than one. "Bluebirds Forever" by Connie Toops is absolutely great. Of course, the first one I owned was "Bluebirds!" by Grooms and Peterson. It was my little bluebird bible. You cannot go wrong and when you need an answer quick, "The Bluebird Monitor's Guide" has it for you along with others. Evelyn Cooper From: Keith & Sandy Kridler [mailto:txbluebirder"at"sbcglobal.net] Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas From: RBALTRUNAS"at"cs.com [mailto:RBALTRUNAS"at"cs.com] Hi All, I checked my new boxes today and counted 8 eggs in #3 box. Counted again 8 eggs. These EABL don't seem to know how to count or read books on EABL. This could be a catastrophe if they all hatch as it is only a starndard 4x4. We are in drought and the field next to it is bone dry brown. I hope these two can handle it all. Ron From: lviolett [mailto:lviolett"at"earthlink.net] Wow, Ron, eight eggs!! You are correct being concerned about the small space of a 4x4 (16 sq. inches) box if all eight hatch. Here is my web page showing a photo of seven Western Bluebirds in a 6x5 box (scroll about half way down to see the photo): From: Keith & Sandy Kridler [mailto:txbluebirder"at"sbcglobal.net] Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2006 11:13 PM Subject: Re: EIGHT(8) EGGS IN ONE EABL BOX! Each baby bluebird needs about 4 square inches of floor space in order for the parents to be able to keep the nest clean or relatively clean. I would suspect two different females to be laying in the same nestbox. Take a photo of the nest and look closely at the shape of the eggs. Each female will have a particular shape to the eggs she lays. Normally two different females will have slightly different shaped eggs. Also the shading of the colors might be a little different if it is two females. Did it take 8 days for the clutch to be laid? Keith Kridler From: John Schuster [mailto:wildwingco"at"earthlink.net] Dear Ron, A hearty congratulations! As for me, I haven't had much success yet. I've seen signs of over wintering, Western Bluebirds actively pursuing one another and claim straws in nest boxes, but no nests let alone eggs. I think much it this is do to the incessant rains (24 days of rain in March) that we've had to endure here in northern California. It's not office yet, but I've heard reports that March 2006 is now the new record holder for more days of rain fall and inches of same. Just so you know, it feels more like I'm living in Seattle WA, than it does sunny California. In the long run, the rains will produces an abundant food supply (seeds, insects and rodents) that will be readily available to the birds, which in turn should induce more active nesting this year with larger clutches of eggs. You may find that out of the eight eggs in your clutch only 4 or 5 may produce results. To date, I've had clutches of up to 6 to 7 eggs (never 8), but only 4 or 5 hatched and the other eggs never did. Just natures way of making sure everything works out.... From: Keith & Sandy Kridler [mailto:txbluebirder"at"sbcglobal.net] Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 9:41 AM Subject: Re: The 3 abandoned eggs & what I'm doing... Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas More eggs from larger clutches will hatch during cool to cold springs when compared to larger clutches in the heat of summer as any temperatures over about 75*F will start the formation of blood vessels and nerve growth. Low humidity during incubation or even low humidity before the eggs are incubated will allow the eggs to lose moisture. Somewhere I have a chart that shows how much weight % wise an egg should lose in order to hatch correctly. If the egg does not lose enough moisture the baby birds will be too high in moisture content and suffer birth defects. If they lose too much water weight wise before hatching they will be too dry and stick in the shells or have other problems. Over the years we normally fledged on average 4.5 baby birds from the first nesting attempts. Second nesting we usually fledged 3.5 baby birds from each nest. Third and fourth nesting attempts in the heat of summer were down to an average of 2.5 baby birds fledged per attempt. Part of this is due to smaller clutches laid on average later in the summer, part is due to fewer eggs that hatched and part is due to higher mortality due to predators and higher heat later in the summer. It is pretty common in late July and August for bluebirds to lay eggs and then never seem to incubate them. Bluebirds in Texas will start laying eggs the end of January and it is pretty common to have baby birds in nestboxes still in early September. The BTO website on House Sparrows in the UK showed the average clutch size is 4.1 eggs per attempt on average. They raised almost $190,000 for research for their sparrows and had more than 16,000 backyard researchers that submitted more than 11,000 sets of backyard nestbox data (they call them Same goes for bluebirds in the USA in certain areas. No matter how many baby bluebirds you have fledge there HAS to be somewhere for them to forage safely during the winter and in the following spring there HAS to be somewhere for them to nest and forage for food for their young. KK From: lviolett [mailto:lviolett"at"earthlink.net] Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 1:15 PM Subject: Re: The 3 abandoned eggs & what I'm doing... Yes, I've had 7 eggs hatch and all 7 chicks fledge, but never in a boxes Linda Violett From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 2:30 PM Subject: Re: The 3 abandoned eggs & what I'm doing... Horace, two years ago, I had six fledge from a 4 x 4 floor. It was on the first cycle and remember, these little birds are used to snuggling and even sitting on top of each other. It being the first cycle and having some cool to warm weather, I think they will be fine. From: Gretchen Hughes [mailto:lghughes"at"
joink.com
] Good Morning all-- From: Brucemac1"at"aol.com [mailto:Brucemac1"at"aol.com] In a message dated 4/20/2006 7:51:22 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, lghughes"at"
joink.com
writes: From: plkldf"at"comcast.net [mailto:plkldf"at"comcast.net] Paul Kilduff trail at Oregon Ridge Park, Cockeysville (Baltimore County) MD We actually have 7 EABL eggs in a box at last count, and last observation had the hen holding her position in the nestbox, so observer did not get to count the eggs. Further info: the regular monitor observed five eggs in the box and one on the edge of the nest. Later the same day, I came along to trim under the box, not having read her report, and decided to raise the stovepipe guard as it was hugging the ground - wanted to see what was inside before I took the box off the mounting pole, which is necessary to raise the baffle. I counted three cold eggs and one on the ground. I assumed HOWR had removed the egg, and that probably the rest would follow shortly. But I replaced the egg, not seeing any harm in doing that, as the ones in the nest were cold (easy to tell because ambient temp was in the 50s). Six-seven days later, the monitor reported six in the nest, and one on the edge of the nest, for total of seven eggs in the box. Four days later I came around to stringtrim and wanted to see the latest, and that's when I saw the female holding her position on the nest, with no eggs visible. Historically we get no more than five eggs per nest, with six on rare occasions. I'm not aware that we've ever had six nestlings. I never saw that "on edge" egg somehow. This year, we're a little late, and the cold weather in early April seems likely responsible for that. Paul in Baltimore From: Lynn Ward [mailto:lWard"at"pmai.org] Sent: Friday, April 21, 2006 8:35 AM Subject: RE: 6 egg nests Hi Loren, From: Trish Culpepper [mailto:trishkcully"at"earthlink.net] Sent: Friday, April 21, 2006 11:07 AM Subject: Re: 6 egg nests Trish Culpepper - Frankston, TX From: Ruth Brinckman [mailto:r.r.brinc"at"comcast.net] My female EABL laid one egg yesterday morning. (blue with 2 white blotches on it). This morning I expected to see a second egg but there wasn't any. I have never had a EABL only lay one egg. Why would she only lay one egg? Do they sometimes skip a day? The weather this weekend has been cool and rainy; over 2 inches of rain. Didn't see them at all yesterday. The pair seems to be fine today and they are coming several times for mealies. We are leaving tomorrow for a month trip out west and I would like to tell my daughter what to expect with my nesting birds. From: Dottie, Hickory Hollow, Brown County, Indiana [mailto:yumyumkatts"at"voyager.net] Dan Sparks, our Brown County BB Club President, asked me to post this: Dottie, Hickory Hollow From: Kathleen Arnold [mailto:koscharn"at"cox.net] Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 5:34 PM Subject: RE: Only One Egg in Nestbox There are probably a number of reasons a day might be skipped, although normally they lay one per day. Perhaps the second egg happens to be a little slower passing through the female’s system. Once I know a female is laying, I don’t check the box until I’ve given her 5-6 days to lay all her eggs, or I make sure to check late in the afternoon. They generally lay eggs in the morning, and if they are startled off the nest while they are actually laying the egg, they may have to drop it somewhere else, so it’s best not to disturb them in the morning at egg-laying time. Kate Arnold From: skw"at"io.com [mailto:skw"at"io.com] Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 3:04 PM Subject: Re: 6 egg nests All: I have had several WEBL nests with 6 eggs over the last several years. Last year there was a MOBL nest with 7 eggs. They all fledged. It was Looks like the same pair are back at that box this year. I put up a new Nest almost complete, no eggs a/o 4/23. Steve From: Brucemac1"at"aol.com [mailto:Brucemac1"at"aol.com] In a message dated 4/24/2006 3:07:00 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, skw"at"io.com writes: From: Keith & Sandy Kridler [mailto:txbluebirder"at"sbcglobal.net] Out of my 7 egg clutch I have only four babies about 5 days old. I normally wait about three days before declaring the rest of the eggs duds..The bad eggs were already buried under the young birds. I'll remove those when I clean out the old nest. From: Gretchen Hughes [mailto:lghughes"at"
joink.com
] Hi all, I don't know what is the reason for all the 6 egg nests, but am now up to 7 of them and loving it. From: Cher [mailto:bluelist"at"localnet.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 7:36 AMll' Subject: Re: 6 eggers Wow, Loren, that's amazing! Is it at all possible that these eggs were Cher From: Brucemac1"at"aol.com [mailto:Brucemac1"at"aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 10:55 PM Subject: 6 Eggs Hello All..... From: bluebirdsnbirdfeeders"at"gmail.com [mailto:bluebirdsnbirdfeeders"at"gmail.com] I was wondering the same thing. I have four eggs, and the female started incubation today. But she laid those 4 eggs over a 6-day time period. Is this unusual? As Ruth mentioned, the weather around here has been rainy (after a dry-spell). From: lviolett [mailto:lviolett"at"earthlink.net] Keith, unless the runt's parents have an ample supply of food, it may perish. Malinda's photo sequence in the Bluebird Monitor's Guide shows a runt (Tiny Tim) in a nest of only four chicks. Malinda's runt eventually fledged but the parents had the advantage of a steady of supply of mealworms and a cozy backyard environment. From: jwick"at"tds.net [mailto:jwick"at"tds.net] Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 11:44 PM Subject: Re: runts I've experienced both survival and death in this situation, but I must say the Ann Wick From: Keith & Sandy Kridler [mailto:txbluebirder"at"sbcglobal.net] Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 1:28 AM Subject: Re: runts Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas a cool 54*F tonight! It has got to be colder up north! Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas Bluebirds when they hatch out are still assimilating or forming tissue from the contents of the egg. They grow at an incredible rate after hatching and one day in a just hatched bluebird is like a year in a human. There is a big difference in a newborn human baby and a two year old baby the same as there is between a just hatched out baby bluebird and one that is two to three days old. The difference is easy to see with the naked eye. Bluebirds add body mass extremely fast until they get to a certain size because they are cold blooded for the first week or so and they do not waste any protein or blood on growing feathers. Then they slow down growing muscle and bone and begin to channel all of their diet to producing heat, they burn more calories moving around and pin feathers are each filled/pressurized with blood and are almost 40% pure protein. Once the feather shafts start to break down and the ends of the feathers begin to emerge and pop out like a flower that blooms or opens up from a tight bud the runts appear to catch up. They are the same body weight only there is a slight difference in feather development. I am sure that the quality of their diet will affect the quality of growth just as sure as a lack of food where they are starving or near starving would affect their growth. Baby birds don't starve to death during a 12 hour night. Going 4 or 5 hours without food during the day would not (probably Young birds are susceptible to a wide range of pathogens that can wipe out their digestive system (giving them the 24 or 48 hour bug) to the point where they cannot digest food or where the food rushes through them giving them diarrhea. Either way they are not getting any food value from what is entering their throat. ...[remainder of post under Monitoring, Part 2] From: mikenbev [mailto:mikenbev"at"bellsouth.net] Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 5:05 PM Subject: Re: runts This is our 3rd year with BB's in the back yard - one house (we are just From: jwick"at"tds.net [mailto:jwick"at"tds.net] Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 10:40 AM Subject: Re: runts Linda Violet wrote: "Are Ann's observations consistent with what other monitors are seeing?
Ann Wick From: CBPKevin"at"aol.com [mailto:CBPKevin"at"aol.com] ...I just returned from the NABS convention in San Antonio, Texas, where I met several folks who are accustomed to having 4 - 5 eggs in their eastern bluebird nestboxes and were surprised that we often get 6 in our western & mountain bluebird boxes. I wonder if the box dimensions have some effect on this. I've read that EABL boxes are usually 4 or 4&1/2 inches square, whereas the one we use for WEBL's and MOBL's around here are usually 5 or 5&1/2 inches square. There's obviously plenty of room for the eggs in the smaller boxes, but perhaps not enough for the nestlings as they approach fledging size. From: lviolett [mailto:lviolett"at"earthlink.net] Kevin, From: Bet Zimmerman [mailto:ezdz"at"charter.net] Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 1:20 PM Subject: RE: 6 egg nests My trail is small, but I had one 6 egger last year (in a Gilbertson box no less! All fledged - see photolog at http://www.sialis.org/runt.htm ) and one this year so far. 4 or 5 seems much more common. Had two 7-egger TRES nests last year - no TRES eggs yet so far here. Both 6 eggers were in my yard where I'm feeding mealworms. Bet from CT From: denisefarmer"at"comcast.net [mailto:denisefarmer"at"comcast.net] Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 7:26 PM Subject: RE: 6 egg nests Bet, Loved the page showing the daily growth of the BB babies,, how neat and Denise From: Lawrence Herbert [mailto:lherbert"at"4state.com] Patricia Gowaty (1998) Birds of N.A. Eastern Bluebird says Colin Harrison (1978) Nests, Eggs and Nestlings says the clutch size for Carolina Chickadee is usually six, sometimes five to eight. Good birding, Larry H. Joplin MO. From: Bob Walshaw [mailto:walshaw1"at"cox.net] Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2007 7:39 PM Subject: Re: Re: HOSP Infested Trails My first nestings have 4, 5 and occasionally 6 eggs. I have often thought that this varied by the age of the female. Second nestings are usually 4 as is the third nesting, but hot weather will cause some abandonment of the third clutch in late July and early August. Our OK winds help as I do not lose birds due to the heat. I am also seeing more Carolina Chickadees and Titmice this spring. Bluebird Bob, NE O From: Lynn Ward [mailto:lWard"at"pmai.org] Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 11:40 AM Subject: 8 Bluebird Eggs Has anyone had any experience with a bluebird laying 8 eggs? We have someone in our state who claims one female has laid 8 eggs. I would have guessed egg dumping but this person also says this female had four nestings last year in the same Peterson box. As far as I know, that's pretty much unheard of in Michigan...three is usually the limit.
Lynn Ward
South Central Michigan
From: Dottie [mailto:yumyumkatts"at"voyager.net] Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 2:58 PM To: Lynn Ward Subject: RE: 8 Bluebird Eggs Our BB club President has mentioned that happening here before. But it's Dottie, Hickory Hollow From: Lynn Ward [mailto:lWard"at"pmai.org] So I guess it might be possible. Someone mentioned to me that maybe the original clutch didn't hatch so there may actually be two clutches in the nest from the same bird. Normally, if the eggs aren't viable (maybe due to the cold, snowy April we had), they'll remove them or push them down in the nest. I'll have to check with this monitor to see if he maybe pulled eggs that were lower in the nest up with the new clutch. Lynn Ward From: DrDodson"at"aol.com [mailto:DrDodson"at"aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 4:16 PM Subject: Re: 8 Bluebird Eggs I have one nest that has 7 bluebird eggs, but two eggs were laid and then no furhter activity for about a week and then one more daily appeared for 5 days for a total of 7. I doubt that the first two are viable. From: Duane Rice [mailto:drbirdsong4"at"hotmail.com] Double clutch I can believe. |
BEST OF BLUEBIRD_L CLASSIFIEDS HOME | Audubon Society of Omaha | The Bluebird Box | Bluebird FAQs | Search | Contact meAll material was originally posted on the Bluebird_L or Bluebird mailing list, and has been reposted here with slight modifications to make the posts more readable in an HTML format. In cases in which quoted material has been deleted to save space, this is indicated by an ellipsis (...)For more information about Bluebird_L, check out http://www.cit.corn.edu/cit-pubs/email/using-lists/index.htm. If you wish to contact the author of a post, you will need to edit the e-mail address, replacing "at" with the "at" symbol (above the number 2 on your keyboard). (This change was made to discourage spammers.)If you are the author of a posting and would like to see a particular post (or posts) removed from these web pages, please contact me with the web page address, title of post, and date and time of the post(s), and I will remove whatever material you like. If you have a different opinion from one posted here, you need not contact me, as often I will have a different opinion too. The intent is to try and provide both sides to the issues facing bluebirders, and to do so in an impartial and objective manner.If you have problems, encounter broken links (unless they are within an e-mail thread, as I do not maintain those links), or have suggestions on how the site can be improved to make it more useful, please contact the Best of Bluebird-L Classifieds webmaster.Website design by
Chimalis
|
