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Waterproofing Nestboxes - Caulk and KerfsEarlier posts on this topic are probably found under Nestboxes (Painting/Staining) From: Torrey [mailto:torrey_canyon"at"yahoo.com] Hi Melissa, I use Thompson's WaterSeal Clear Multi-surface Waterproofer on my boxes. (Only on the outside, of Of course, a lot of my boxes are donated by school groups & scout groups, who use pine & easy-to-make flat-roofed designs. Your husand-made boxes would last longer than my kid-made boxes no matter what. :-) yours, Torrey Torrey Wenger From: bluebirdsnbirdfeeders"at"gmail.com [mailto:bluebirdsnbirdfeeders"at"gmail.com] Hello, From: Laurie Spence [mailto:mrsgbs3"at"hughes.net] Someone recently said (sorry don't remember who) that they waterproofed their nestboxes as part of the winterizing process. Who else does this? Does it increase the life of the nestbox? Laurie from Southern Maryland From: Bruce Burdett [mailto:blueburd"at"verizon.net] Laurie, I make no special efforts at "winterizing," though I know that some folks do. My boxes have always stayed up all winter, and I suppose that various things sometimes seek shelter in them during cold spells. Bruce Burdett SW NH From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com]
Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 3:03 PM Subject: Re: Waterproofing Nestboxes Laurie, after boxes stay in the weather a while, the will have some shrinkage and you can see little spaces where the back and sides meet. I take some caulking material and rub it in the spaces (up and down) to fill it up. Water can be blown into the box if the spaces are not filled up. I had several I had to do.
I don't know if it increases the life of the boxes, but my pine boxes are about 9 years on the trail and I will replace them soon with Cypress.
Evelyn
From: lviolett [mailto:lviolett"at"earthlink.net] Laurie, waterproofing boxes does improve the life of the box. I use clear silicon caulk ALL over the outside of the box and an extra bead of caulk along inside seams to keep water out of the box. Each monitor has his/her own preference. See archives regarding painting/staining/oiling/caulking nestboxes: Linda Violett From: Bruce Burdett [mailto:blueburd"at"verizon.net] Linda V. From: Vicki Butler [mailto:butlerrowe"at"sbcglobal.net] Hi Bruce: I've asked Linda that question, since I haven't seen her response, I thought I'd write you, maybe she's still in the midwest. She uses DAP Alex Plus clear silicone and uses the caulking gun to put it on the wood surface and then uses her finger to smooth it out. I used a wide putty knife, but that leaves ridges that she doesn't get on hers. Do a small section at a time as it gets tacky fairly quickly and then it doesn't smooth out well at all. Vicki Butler From: lviolett [mailto:lviolett"at"earthlink.net] Thanks, Vicki, for responding to Bruce that clear silicone caulk can be squirted from the tube onto the box exterior and then smoothed over the box using bare hands. There are about dozen posts in the archives over the years from Bruce stating that he either leaves the boxes unfinished or only uses only Boiled Linseed Oil http://www.bestofbbml.audubon-omaha.org/boxesps.htm, Below is a sample of his posts from the archives: From: Bruce Burdett, Sunapee NH blueburd"at"srnet.com Many bluebirders, - including this one, - do not paint their houses ANY color. We simply let them weather naturally to a neutral grey. Some of my pine houses have been up for 9 years, winter and summer, and are still as sound as ever. If I remember to, I give the exteriors a good soaking with linseed oil, but usually I forget, and it doesn't seem to make much difference. (End of Bruce's post) -------------------------------------------------- That was written during a time period when quite a few people were hesitant to seal their boxes because many old-timers advised against putting sealers on box exteriors. IF anything was used, Linseed Oil was recommended most.. With that background, I'd like to ask Bruce if he is actually considering using silicone caulk on his boxes. If so, and for the archives, please let us know if something has occurred to change your position toward leaving boxes natural or sporadically using Linseed Oil. Linda Violett Yorba Linda, Calif. From: Bruce Burdett [mailto:blueburd"at"verizon.net] Linda, Bruce Burdett SW NH From: Maynard Sumner [mailto:m-r-sumner"at"juno.com] Bruce, I have some of Linda's boxes and the silicone caulk holds up a very long time. The boxes will have the same look as your boxes. Maynard Sumner From: Lynn Emerich [mailto:lemerich"at"epix.net] Bruce and all. With the caulk, I would think she is only talking about sealing the cracks, as it could get quite expensive to do the whole box. This works very well to just rub it in with you fingers. Just don't get it on your clothes as it is hard to remove. You can wash it off your hands with soap and water. If this is what your doing, don't worry about little ridges - it won't hurt a thing. If you think it dries too fast, wet your finger and smooth it. If you can't find the clear, you can get white, black, blue and other colors. All basically the same except for color. I did notice that some brands now call it Lynn near Bernville PA. From: lviolett"at"earthlink.net [mailto:lviolett"at"earthlink.net] Bruce, glad to hear that you are looking into alternatives for waterproofing boxes and the best way to find out what works best for you is to try several methods. You asked "If your leakage is mainly through the various joints, why Since I do not have any leakage, I'm assuming you presented a theoretical question. Therefore, the following is background of why I completely seal the exterior of my boxes, method of application, maintenance and results. Boxes I had inherited as a new Bluebirder were finished in a water-based paint. Water-based paints don't hold up even in the mild winters we experience in arid conditions here in southern Calif. Some of these boxes soaked up water like a sponge (same as unfinished wood). The wood itself was wet, cold and swollen with water during winter rains. Those boxes were immediately pulled off the trail. Silicone caulk is the safest and most effective substance I have found to waterproof boxes. It is not time-consuming to put on boxes and can be quite enjoyable. You simply squirt half the tube of caulking into a pile on the box after putting on your favorite classical music. Then, with your bare hand, dip into the pile of caulk and start smoothing it over the exterior as if you were buttering bread with your fingers. It only takes about three minutes to completely seal a box exterior. Then I squirt caulk on the inside seams, smoothing the caulk into the cracks with particular attention around the roof seams. Clean the excess off your fingers by wiping them around the entrance holes and into any crevice between the hole guard and box front to make sure legs/feet won't get caught. The whole process takes less than five minutes. The finish acts as a flexible protective "skin" which expands and contracts without cracking. Completely sealing box exteriors is well worth the effort when you consider birds invest several weeks to each nesting cycle. The finish will last for years and is very low maintenance. As boxes rotate through my workshop, I look for any seams or edges that might need touchups. It doesn't matter what finish is currently on the box, silicone caulk can be added over the surface. Some of my boxes are finished with oil-based paint to camouflage them from vandals and I eventually have to smear a layer of caulk over the cracked paint for continued protection. Linda Violett From: Bruce Burdett [mailto:blueburd"at"verizon.net] Lynn, Am I right, Linda? Or wrong? Bruce Burdett SW NH From: lviolett"at"earthlink.net [mailto:lviolett"at"earthlink.net] Bruce, you are correct. Linda Violett From: Robert Barron [mailto:rebarron"at"gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 9:39 PM Subject: Re: Caulk Hi Linda,
Is there any reason for using silicone VS urethane or clear expoxy that can be brushed on? I'm no wood expert, but that sounds like a messy job. What made you decide on silicone? Is it because of its environmental friendliness? What kind of wood is under the goop? Marine grade plywood or even painted exterior grade plywood seems a lot more simple. Silicone doesn't form a good bond to rough or dirty surfaces. Have you had any problem with all the moisture trapped inside the box causing rot from the inside?
I'm coming up on the end of my first year here. I see why once nesting season is over we go back to nest box design. People here must look forward to nesting season like kids count the days until Christmas.
Thanks,
Rob Barron
From: Sue Bulger [mailto:suebulger"at"gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 12:11 AM Subject: Re: Waterproofing Nestboxes Bruce and all,
Linda taught me to use the clear silicone caulk on my boxes. First I stain the boxes medium brown. Sometimes I start applying the silicone with a caulking gun and sometimes I squirt out a good size blob on a piece of wood and, in either case, smear it with my rubber or plastic gloved hands. I put a good size bead of silicone under the roof against the outer walls. Any bumps or ridges are no problem and can give the box some texture like bark. It dries clear in roughly an hour depending on the weather. Usually I wait a little longer than that and then dab gray oil paint all over the box in blotches. The end result looks quite like tree bark and helps camouflage the box in a tree. I am painting the roofs with white gloss paint to reflect heat.
Susan Bulger, Fullerton,CA
From: Laurie Spence [mailto:mrsgbs3"at"hughes.net] Here is my question about using caulk for waterproofing: What about the kerfs? My boxes have kerfs on the outside just below the entrance hole. It would seem that the caulk would render the kerfs useless. To not use the sealant in that area would leave it unprotected. What do YOU think? Laurie from Southern Maryland From: Robert Barron [mailto:rebarron"at"gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 2:34 PM Subject: Re: Caulk and Kerfs Hi Laurie,
Do you put kerfs on the inside also? I've always been taught the kerfs need to be on the inside, especially for tree swallows, to help the nestlings climb up to the entrance to be able to get out when they fledge.
I guess it would depend how thick you applied silicone to the outside kerfs and how deep they were as to whether they would be usable or not.
Rob Barron
From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com] Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 2:53 PM Subject: Re: Caulk and Kerfs I think the birds need something to hold onto when they are poking their heads in the holes for whatever reason. A box that is planed or smooth for any other reason on the outside front door needs kerfs.
Evelyn
From: lviolett [mailto:lviolett"at"earthlink.net] Welllllll, now. All of a sudden folks seem to be really be concerned about a relatively small area below the hole on the outside as a possible reason to not seal/caulk the rest of the box.. Rather unexpected because I would have thought that very few monitors added outside toeholds from looking at box fronts shown in the Bluebird Monitor's Guide. Photo after photo from the Peterson box on page 9 to the slick plastic Gilbertson-style boxes on page 105 don't appear to have outside toeholds. But for those of you who have a copy of the Bluebird Monitor's Guide, take a look at Malinda Mastako's box photo showing a piece of wood under her box hole on page 34. That's a great concept for exterior toeholds. When the book was printed, not even my boxes provided exterior wooden toeholds because clear silicone caulk dries to a rubbery consistency which automatically provides traction for tiny claws to grip onto. Scroll halfway down my Construction page to see my version of Malinda's toeholds: Everyone should be thinking of adding exterior toeholds to their boxes, but don't use that thought process as a reason not to waterproof boxes with silicone caulk. In fact, I use squiggly lines of caulk toeholds on the inside of my boxes and on the exterior of boxes which don't have wooden toeholds. Linda Violett From: denisefarmer"at"comcast.net [mailto:denisefarmer"at"comcast.net] Laurie, You could still caulk the sides and where the face guard and box meet and not the front and still have pretty much the same effect. Your face guard is made from 2x4 and it would take quite a bit of driving rain to soak through the face guard and the 1' wood the box is made of. Denise From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 5:05 PM Subject: Re: Caulk Kerfs & Toeholds This is not an all of a sudden concern for us (LBBS). We do our best to find lumber that is rough on both sides and that takes care of our problem. We buy the major part of our lumber from sawmills. We've been so blessed to find beautiful cypress and it will cost a $3.00 per box plus the screws to build. We've got some beautiful Cypress boxes in the making as I type.
I think the question was a very good one wanting to know about how the silicone plays a part for the birds to get a toe hold.
Evelyn
From: denisefarmer"at"comcast.net [mailto:denisefarmer"at"comcast.net]
Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 7:48 PM Subject: RE: Caulk and Kerfs I can speak for Laurie on this one. She has kerfs inside and out. The ones on the front are on the face guard just below the hole so that when mom and pop (BB or TRSW) are hanging on the front of the box, it is a little easier for them. they are not as deep as the kerfs on the inside The face guard is made of 2x4's and the house is made from 1x6 for the side and 1x8 for front and back. How do I know this you ask?? I built them and I can send off list pictures if anyone is interested.
This is the same box I used to replace the butterfly house that the BB's used this year at work and the one I described yesterday with the larger floor and seeing the babies spread out above and beyond the nest cup.
I agree with Evelyn on this one which is why kerfs are on the inside and the outside.
Denise
Parkville, MD
From: Robert Barron [mailto:rebarron"at"gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 10:13 PM Subject: Re: Caulk and Kerfs Hi caulkers and other BB lovers,
This is all really interesting and there is no right or wrong. I've never made outside kerfs on my nest boxes because I read somewhere or someone told me that it made it easier for HOSP to perch outside the box and get to the inside.
Unfortunately, Bluebirds, Swallows, and House Sparrows are all classified as Passerines (perching birds), as in Passer domesticus, and share the same foot/toe arrangement.
With that said, I have a hard time believing a HOSP is a songbird, and it's obvious that Swallows are better flyers and poorer perchers on vertical surfaces. Bluebirds are somewhere in between. House Sparrows can perch on and eat just about anything and have the vocal range of the lead singers for Sugarland or Rascal Flats, and Eastern Bluenirds sing as pretty as Alison Krausse, but that's just my opinion
I have never seen any Passerine cavity nester have any trouble ENTERING a nest box, whether it was rough cedar, urethane coated white pine, or smooth PVC.
I do think outside kerfs would give a woodpecker or Flicker with zygodactyl toes and advantage when trying to access the nest box entrance.
There are a million ways to make a box. I'd use Cyprus or Redwood and not worry about waterproofing if they were renewable wood sources, but in these unpredictable times I can't count on that.
Anything else is a matter of personal preference and aesthetics. My personal opinion is that silicone caulk was designed for filling and sealing cracks, but if anyone wants to smear it on the outside of their nest boxes, I'm sure the birds don't care. It does have an eco-friendly advantage of being relatively inert once cured.
It isn't a critical issue to argue about, in my opinion.
Rob Barron
From: Laurie Spence [mailto:mrsgbs3"at"hughes.net] Thank you, Denise, for jumping in and giving a specific description of As for you, Linda, folks on this list are not all of a sudden becoming “concerned about a relatively small area below the hole on the outside as a possible reason to not seal/caulk the rest of the box. I asked a question - I did not I was the person who began the conversation about waterproofing because I want to learn all I can before I do work on my four boxes. ~Laurie from Southern Maryland From: happywebl"at"comcast.net [mailto:happywebl"at"comcast.net] I had to improvise a perch last season when a brooding female injured her leg somehow. I noticed she had difficulty entering the nestbox, and would have to make three or more attempts, fluttering about the entry hole. Someone on the list suggested I improvise a temporary perch to help her out, and it worked like a charm! I stapled a small twig below the entry hole and that did the trick. After the season ended, I just pulled it off. The male never used it, but it helped the female until her leg improved. That was the only time I've seen a bluebird have difficulty entering the nestbox. Barbara in Cloverdale, CA From: lviolett [mailto:lviolett"at"earthlink.net] Barbara, that was me who wrote to you about adding a toehold for your female. Linda Violett From: lviolett [mailto:lviolett"at"earthlink.net] Laurie, your question was not stupid. Linda Violett From: Bruce Burdett [mailto:blueburd"at"verizon.net]
Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 10:16 AM Subject: Re: Caulk Kerfs & Toeholds Linda,
I certainly accept the idea that sealing all the joints and seams of our Bluebird houses with some high-grade, long-lasting caulk is an excellent idea. I have often done it, though not consistently.
I am less convinced that it's necessary to coat the entire outside surface of the house? I wonder what the advantage is of coating areas where there is no leakage. (My box parts are all made of solid 7/8" white pine lumber, rough-one-side. It turns grey, but it lasts and lasts.)
Also, I have found that the caulk I've used tends to dry up (stiffen)within a couple of years and pull away from the wood. Maybe my caulk is of poor quality. (cheap)
As you know, I use wooden entrance blocks, and I cut kerfs in the outside of the blocks, horizontally, below the hole. However, I haven't seen the birds use these slots very much. They usually just hook their claws over the bottom edge of the hole, and ignore the kerfs.
I rarely see a House Sparrow, so I can't enter that discussion.
Bruce Burdett SW NH
From: happywebl"at"comcast.net [mailto:happywebl"at"comcast.net] Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 10:48 AM Subject: Re: Caulk and Kerfs Linda, Your suggestions worked great for my injured female. I don't have any problems with HOSP (yet) so that wasn't an issue. I just used a small twig for the perch and she took right to it! I'm thinking of adding kerfs to the outside of my two nestboxes this fall, when I take them down for rehab. It might help the swallows too -- we have had violet-green swallows checking out the nestboxes in the spring and I sure would love to have a pair nest here! I plan to add depth to the face guards on my existing boxes, and do minor repairs. My husband is planning to build a larger, deeper box to try out also, but he keeps going in the hospital so he hasn't begun it. Barbara in Cloverdale, CA From: Bruce Burdett [mailto:blueburd"at"verizon.net]
Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 11:47 AM Subject: Re:Old pine LnL,
Hundreds of old barns in New England and elswehere were sheathed with native rough-sawn White Pine boards, usually 1" thick. Some of these barns are still standing, after more than 200 years on the job, though the wood is dark grey now, or nearly black. Very often these barns were never painted. Many others, of course, have been taken down, but a lot of that old 1" weathered lumber gets recycled as "barn boards, " and sold at high prices for posh interior walls in homes. In most cases it has not even warped significantly. Little wonder, then, that White Pine, especially if it is 7/8" or 1" thick, makes a sturdy Bluebird house.
The standard 3/4" pine, in my opinion, is much less suitable.
I used some "barn boards" once to sheath the walls of a finished basement room. But those boards were from tobacco barns and were only 100 years old or so - practically new.
One historical oddity: some barns were framed with solid Black Walnut timbers, because Black Walnut was plentiful back in those days. During the Civil War, a lot of the walnut framing was converted to rifle stocks. Nowadays Black Walnut has become one of our costliest furniture-grade hardwoods, as anyone knows who has tried to buy some.
Bruce Burdett SW NH
From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com]
Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 12:35 PM Subject: Re: Caulk and Kerfs Barbara, HOSP's are not the only birds a perch will attract. You do not want any other birds interfering with your nesting box. It is o.k. for a temporary thing to help your injured female, but after that, I would remove it.
Kerfs and perches are different. Perches stick out and can attract more birds. Kerfs are little indentions that some birds cling to.
Good for you for making improvements. That is my plan too which includes trying to make the boxes cooler on the end of the second cycle and the third cycle. I don't put the solar screen up until the middle of the second cycle.
Evelyn
From: happywebl"at"comcast.net [mailto:happywebl"at"comcast.net] Hi Evelyn, I took the perch off as soon as that clutch fledged. It was the end of the season anyway, but it worked great while it was needed. I had seen that the female's leg seemed to be improving, anyway. At first, I thought she had lost her leg because she kept it drawn up under her belly. Then I would see her trying to put weight on it, so I knew it was injured. A couple of my nestboxes have kerfs inside, and one has a piece of screening stapled under the entry hole. I think the idea of putting them on the face guard is a great one, as the adults seem to cling there a lot. There's always something new to consider! Barbara in Cloverdale, CA From: Robert Barron [mailto:rebarron"at"gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 2:53 PM Subject: Re: Winterizing supplies? Hey Melissa,
If your boxes are wet, I'd take them down and let them dry in a garage or out in the sun with the hinged door open before applying any kind of sealer or caulking joints. The front will probably open more easily once it has dried. Refresh my memory; what are your boxes constructed from.
No one really knows how many nest boxes are really used as winter roosts. In upstate NY, I had Bluebirds stay all winter and they roosted in the Spruce and Hemlock trees and never went in the nest boxes. I had friend not far away that had the opposite experience.
Like Bruce Burdette, I've made most of my nest boxes out of 1" white pine and some of them are more than 15 years old and still strong. I leave them up all year and I've never had one split or become wet inside. In case they do use your nest box to get out of the wind, you can cover the vents with anything. I used thin strips of wood from ripping the rough edges off pooe quality 2 x 4"s and out them on with a staple gun. You could cover floor wents the same way if you have them.
I think you can find pine and cedar shavings in the Hampster Isle at most big box stores. A lot of people have pretty strong feelings one way or another about cedar, and I'm not trying to ignite that debate. Sawdust, dried grass, or pine needles would do then same thing. I don't know what the foil accomplishes, but I learn new ideas here every day and I'm sure someone will educate me.
Take care,
Rob Barron From: Keith & Sandy Kridler [mailto:txbluebirder"at"sbcglobal.net] Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas "If you put a perch on your nestbox other species of birds will use the perch to keep away the bluebirds!" I have heard this so many times and it is often quoted also as "research shows that if you add a perch" ETC. But you know that I have collected bluebird articles for forty years and the ONLY reference I can find on "research" dates back to a single letter a man wrote to William Duncan and he published in his bluebird newsletter back in the 1970's. The gist of the letter was that this man removed the perches from his nestboxes and he went a WHOLE nesting season in his yard without an English Sparrow using his nestboxes. They ended the letter by saying that "If you remove the perches from your nestboxes that you will have no English Sparrows nesting in your bluebird houses." If this is the "research" that we keep quoting then it is as well done as MANY other House Sparrow myths. The last time I looked House Sparrows seem to have no trouble entering nestboxes without perches and they seem to be able to hold about any nestbox they REALLY want to use! Robert Baron mentioned that in as little as a 20 year span finches on the islands adapted to changes in their environment. House Sparrows seem to adapt to changes in two or three years at the most to changes in nestbox styles, new bird seed ETC. We tend to blame "millet" a simple grass seed for the proliferation of House Sparrows. Back in the 1850's before millet was grown and shipped in the USA they blamed wheat, then oats became more popular in the 1870's for horse & mule feed and English Sparrow food. There are thousands of species of weed seeds that these birds will eat! Jack Dodson mentions using a variety of nestboxes and having NO House Sparrows and he had a GREAT selection of native birds nesting. I expect competition for nestboxes to change his fledge numbers of the different species over the next 6 years or so. I expect him to get nesting House Sparrows next year:-)) Noel Guards and 4" diameter PVC entrance hole raccoon guards: OK these actually provide not only a great landing perch for one legged birds they should also provide the ultimate guarding platform for "competing species" I would at least like to read the research paper showing that perches hurt the chances of nesting bluebirds. See who did the research and the location of the tests and how many years they based this on and if there is actually film footage showing where bluebirds are driving out a nesting pair of House Sparrows from their nest in boxes without perches! Back in the 1960's and early 1970's ALL of the wood nestboxes my dad and I made had 1/4" wood dowel perches or we nailed a 3/4"X3/4" wood strip/ledge/toehold under the hole. Yes when sparrows were using these nestboxes the male often sang while standing on this perch. It made it easy to shoot the sparrows rather than them zipping into a box without a perch. I think the "no wood perch on nestboxes" actually is a huge advantage to the nestbox builders who ship and display nestboxes. These perches get broken in shipping and shippers would have to send a new dowel/perch to people who open the box and find these "broken nestboxes." I also saw over the years that woodpeckers HATE a perch under an entrance hole as the first thing they and squirrels do is "chew off" this stick blocking them from getting to the entrance hole. The wood dowel perch is probably dangerous to young kids who might poke an eye while trying to look in the entrance hole to see what is in the box. Anyway if you have dozens or hundreds of nestboxes up you might want to experiment with some this coming year and see what your "research" can come up with. KK From: denisefarmer"at"comcast.net [mailto:denisefarmer"at"comcast.net] My box at work does NOT have kerfs on the outside and my male always had troubles and would take him two or three attempts to get into the box. I wonder if it has something to do with experience. Maybe he was a first time parent and others are not. Just a thought Denise From: Bruce Burdett [mailto:blueburd"at"verizon.net] BLUEBIRD-L, If you will type my name in your Searchbox, and then hit "Identification Center" (# 6?) you'll find my picture of a female Bluebird at the entrance hole of one of my bozes. Although the entrance block is well-kerfed, she does not appear to be using the kerfs. This doesn't prove that she *never* uses them, but she's not in this instance. Bruce Burdett |
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