|
Welcome to
The Bluebird Box
since 1995 |
Nestboxes (Gilbertson & other PVC)In addition to Messages that have appeared in the Bluebird Mailing Lists on this topic, the following are on the Audubon Society of Omaha website:
Subj: Re: Gilbertson Box--House Sparrow Resistant? Mr. Chybowski: I correspond and talk with Steve Gilbertson on a regular basis. He doesn't have e-mail, so he can't respond directly to this site. Earlier in the year it had to be cleared up that his PVC nsestbox was not raccoon proof, but was highly raccoon resistant, which is what he has stated all along. He does state, after years of testing, that his boxes are "sparrow resistant". Now you refute his claim when you say that the Gilbertson box is not house sparrow resistant--are you saying that his nesttbox does not deter in any way house sparrows from choosing the Gilbertson box to nest? Are there others on the Bluebird-L who feel that the Gilbertson nesttbox in not house sparrow resistant? Mr. Gilbertson is a man of high integrity and makes every effort to make accurate and truthful statements. Mr. Chybowski, I will share your post with Steve--I feel certain that he will want to respond to your opinion. Dan Sparks Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 08:47:13 -0600 What is the feeling about Gilbertson boxes, in regard to bluebird Katherine I think everyone should consider the Gilbertson (4-inch PVC) box. While not House sparrow-proof, it comes the closest of any box to date (although I should qualify this by saying I don't have a lot of experience with the Troyer box). I find that only small female HOSP's will attempt using it. Also, it is far and away the favorite of Black-capped chickadees in this
area. I've even taken to making a number of these just for chickadees by What makes the Gilbertson one of my favorites is that I can put them up and take them down quickly every year (as well as move them, in a second) - adding years to box life, and also (by putting up the boxes in early spring) reducing HOSP nesting attempts further. On the question of insulation, I wouldn't be overly worried about heat. I've
had broods of five fledged from these in full-sun, in 90+ degree weather. On the
early/cold/wet side, however, I suspect the Petersen house may be superior, as
you'll rarely see early nesting losses out of these. Jim Walters james-walters"at"uiowa.edu Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 08:47:13 -0600 What is the feeling about Gilbertson boxes, in regard to bluebird Katherine I think everyone should consider the Gilbertson (4-inch PVC) box. While not House sparrow-proof, it comes the closest of any box to date (although I should qualify this by saying I don't have a lot of experience with the Troyer box). I find that only small female HOSP's will attempt using it. Also, it is far and away the favorite of Black-capped chickadees in this
area. I've even taken to making a number of these just for chickadees by What makes the Gilbertson one of my favorites is that I can put them up and take them down quickly every year (as well as move them, in a second) - adding years to box life, and also (by putting up the boxes in early spring) reducing HOSP nesting attempts further. On the question of insulation, I wouldn't be overly worried about heat. I've
had broods of five fledged from these in full-sun, in 90+ degree weather. On the
early/cold/wet side, however, I suspect the Petersen house may be superior, as
you'll rarely see early nesting losses out of these. Jim Walters james-walters"at"uiowa.edu Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 10:51:16 EST In a Message dated 3/29/01 10:25:50 AM Eastern Standard Time, I think everyone should consider the Gilbertson (4-inch PVC) box. While not House sparrow-proof, it comes the closest of any box to date (although I should qualify this by saying I don't have a lot of experience with the Troyer box). I find that only small female HOSP's will attempt using it. I was going to try some Gilbertsons this year but because I will be away for a couple of weeks I decided to go for the Troyer slot box instead so there would be an escape route as well. I have heard good things about them. After purchasing the Troyers I happened to be looking at the NABS web site and saw that they offer Gilbertson SLOT boxes - has anyone used those? Seems it might be the best of both worlds? I don't have a huge sparrow problem but will report on what happens with the Troyer boxes. So far the EABL have checked them out but haven't stayed for long and I have no HOSP here yet. Jane
Nashville, IN Robert Chybowski bchybow"at"execpc.com 04/07 11:24 AM There's been a lot of talk lately about house sparrow control. The Gilbertson Box was recommended as being house sparrow resistant. In my opinion, it is not; on more than one occaision house sparrows have tried to nest in ones I had installed. Once, sparrows retaliated when bluebirds began nesting there; I had returned to band the nestlings and they had been "scalped" by the house sparrow. House sparrows are so very adaptable. Until someone develops a nest box that will truly deter house sparrows, we will continue to use tricks we have had success with in the past in order to protect bluebirds from these predators.
Subj: Bluebird box Hey all friends and neighbors, saints and sinners and Bluebirders!!! How goes the eternal quest today? Has anyone tried a box with 1 1/2" hole in front, 1" hole on side, 1 1/4" on other side, and 1 9/16" hole in back to see what birds you get? If not I will give one a try, before that Mr Steve Gilbertson comes out with one! We can report successful house sparrow killing season by carbon monoxide in plastic bag so far this spring with use of Gilbertson trap and 85 Chevy station wagon-color gray. I like my new Gilbertson boxes and perhaps will order a few more, tree swallow also like them here. But so far Kentucky Slot is first choice of Eastern Blues and Peterson is home for the Wrens and mice--sometime blue. But got the feeling Gilbertson is going to increase in value. I like the way they photograph too! We got a NABS type one likes. Well, got to go drill more holes. Will report any findings if there are any to be found. Have two tripods set up now but fell asleep in wagon and missed another good bluebird shot. That darn Fread and his flying Bluebirds ideas!! He ought to be shot! My batteries are weak. Wendell Long Did Uall see Bluebird Society of Pennsylvania web site? ah shucks. http://www.voicenet.com/~clarens/BSP/2BSP.HTM PS: My plastic goose decoy still standing alone in backyard. No actionyet, little too early. PSS: So far perhaps fewer Blues this year, but the Ruby-throated arrived yesterday, so what the heck, so he doesn't nest in a hole, glad to see him. Keep them cards and letters coming in, always glad to get email from fellow birders!! When's the next NABS Journal due out? Were new rules and policies published for the lists?
Subj: organic
bluebirds/swallow deaths Subj:
PVC/condensation Subj: Question
about Gilbertson PVC Subj: Gilbertson PVC box/blowfly Subj: blowflies in PVC Subj: Re: blowflies in PVC Subj: Re: blowflies in PVC Subj: wet nests Subj: Re: Question about Gilbertson PVC, small bottoms of Peterson Subj: Re: blowflies in PVC If the nest in your
Gilbertson PVC box is getting wet (more than in an unusual straight-wind/rain
storm) then there is something wrong with the roof size of the box.(Presuming
your roof is not cracked.) The hole should be well-protected by a roof with a
good overhang all around. In the beginning Steve used a rather Subj: danger of wet nests Subj: Wet PVC boxes (was Re: blowflies in PVC) Subj: Re: blowflies in PVC Subj: Re: blowflies in PVC Subj: Re: Wet Nests Subj: RE: Please look at my PVC box again Subj: Boxes for Cavities and Misc. Subj: RE: Please look at my PVC box again I cut ~ 3 inch hole in front, then cover with a
pine slab -bark attached-with 1 9/16th entrance hole in it.
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 00:34:36 -0500 Hello Wanda (and List), By all means, add some Gilbertson's to your trail, more than half of my small trail are Gilbertsons and I had good results with them. If you have any place on your trail that has house sparrow trouble, try using them there first. I follow Steve Gilbertson's mounting instructions to the letter, it's easy and inexpensive. The only drawback to the design is the inability to easily check for blowfly infestation, although I had no blowfly troubles last year, which was the first year for my trail. One solution to insure you have no blowfly trouble in that type box is to keep an extra Gilbertson with a handmade replacement nest already in it, and then gently move the 7 to 10 day old nestlings into the new nest and replace the entire unit, roof and all (Steve handfits each box to it's roof so it's best to keep them together, they have matching numbers for this purpose). Once you clean out the old nest from the swapped box, it will become your spare and you can make new replacement nest for that one. FYI: Steve sells his boxes by the pair... Dave Bagley ----- Original Message ----- Hello Fellow Bluebirders, Another question. Can anyone post their experiences with a "Gilbertson Nestbox" good or bad. I'm thinking of adding one to my numbers this year. Many thanks, Wanda (SE PA)
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 14:43:47 -0400 Haleya Priest Amherst If I may kindly say I made a mistake and made my Gilbertson boxes 4.5 inches from floor to bottom of hole and THAT WAS JUST TOO LOW. I talked to Steve and he agreed. I had to patch up the holes I had drilled and make them 6.5" from bottom of the PVC to bottom of hole. Toops directions show 4.5 and Steve is quite upset about that! That was the plan I followed and - it would have left the babies way to vulnerable to predator attack. IMHO H :-)
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 22:33:13 -0400 Haleya Priest Amherst MASS I suppose we better clear up this Gilbertson issue.... KK maybe you can say
more if needed. I have a Gilbertson right in front me. From the very bottom of
the box to the bottom of the hole is 5 and 14/16". From the top of the bottom of
the floor to the hole is 4 and 3/4". Konnie Toop's plans show the bottom of the
box to the bottom of the hole to be 4.5" - that makes the hole WAY to low.
Whomever drew up the plans didn't account for the block of wood floor base and
the suggested 1/4" clearway between the bottom of the floor and the bottom of
the box. Sorry if I complicated the discussion - it just took me a LONG time to
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 00:20:13 -0500 Phil - we want to help you. Is your PVC pipe set up so that it will wobble if a predator tries to climb it? Or is it a solid fixed piece of pipe? This is important. Bluebird Bob.
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 03:23:18 GMT Q2-DO PVC BOXES NEED MORE BOTTOM VENTILATION THAN A SINGLE DRAIN HOLE? THE
NESTS I HAVE REMOVED FROM PVC BOXES ARE COMPACT, DIRTY, AND SMELLY. THE NESTS
FROM PETERSON NESTBOXES ARE ALWAYS VERY NEAT, LOOSE, AND CLEAN.
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 11:29:51 -0400 Haleya Priest Amherst MA I can't remember the general consensus about leaving up or taking down Gilbertson (PVC) boxes for the winter. Thanks, H
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 10:31:56 -0500 Hi Haleya. I believe these boxes have little insulation value, hence it would be better to take them down for the cold season. Also, they have vents in the back which are difficult to close. Fawzi from MD ----- Original Message ----- From: Haleya Priest Haleya Priest Amherst MA I can't remember the general consensus about leaving up or taking down Gilbertson (PVC) boxes for the winter. Thanks, H Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 10:23:46 -0500 I have the opportunity to buy a Gilbertson box at a discount, *if I do it by today*, so I was wondering: What is the feeling about Gilbertson boxes, in regard to bluebird preference? I.e., do EABL (and other cavity nesters) like them? Does anybody have experience with this? If I put up a Gilbertson box (in addition to a Springer chalet and another classic slant-roofed box), is it likely to be chosen? Would this make a good experiment? I know Gilbertson boxes are not well insulated, but I don't have a heat problem in the spring. (In fact, this spring I will probably have the opposite problem, if things continue the way they have been going.) I also don't have a problem with HOSP and EUST. I also don't (yet) have bluebirds. So I wonder if a Gilbertson box would provide one more attractive choice in addition to what I already have? -- Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 11:10:30 -0500 The Bluebirds like my Gilbertson boxes. I get 1/2 of my Bluebirds in them. Maynard R Sumner Flint, Michigan -----Original Message----- ... Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 12:47:07 -0400 Haleya Priest Amherst MA I vote for the Gilbertson PVC! Disadvantages: Others will have more ideas to add to this list.... :-) H Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 11:52:30 -0500 At 11:10 AM 3/28/2001 -0500, Maynard Sumner wrote: Yes, Kate I agree with Maynard. Except I get whole birds. Wendell Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 12:21:42 -0500 Pauline Tom Mountain City (no mountains) TX Another GORGEOUS day - high 40's early morning, to be in upper 70's this afternoon Keith & All, Because I found plans for NABS-approved 4" PVC nest boxes, I've been promoting the use of the style (as well as approved styles with 4" x 4" floor space). What was the reasoning behind NABS eventually approving the PVC box and those smaller than 5" diameter - after they were not originally suggested for bluebirds? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith & Sandy Kridler" kridler"at"1starnet.com Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 14:48:46 -0400 Hello Pauline Tom/All, The smaller size of the 4" PVC box discourages House Sparrows but not so much the Bluebirds. The House Sparrows prefers making that big messy nest and the 4" PVC doesn't allow them to do that very well. That's the main premise of what makes the Gilbertson 4" PVC box House Sparrow resistant. It's been my experience that when I have paired a Gilbertson with a standard wooden NABS box, the Bluebirds prefer the larger wooden box as well, but they'll settle for the Gilbertson, and I've haven't had a House Sparrow go for a Gilbertson yet. Dave Bagley ----- Original Message ----- From: Pauline Tom bluebirds"at"austin.rr.com ... Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 14:43:31 -0500 Pauline Tom Here the House Sparrows do not seem to be deterred by the Gilbertson 4" PVC nest box. That's the style of the box that had a family of newly hatched Bewicks Wrens last week and this week it has a House Sparrow nest with nary a trace of the wrens. I pull sparrow nests out of PVC as often as I pull them from the larger wooden box. Eastern Bluebird nests on "my" trail last year were in a PVC box and the one nest this year is in a PVC. Along the trail, Black Crested Tufter Titmice and Bewicks Wrens have used both the PVC and wooden box. If I'm not mistaken, Carolina Chickadees have nested only in PVC. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Bagley" bags"at"erols.com ... Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 21:03:53 -0500 Dave, I've had sparrows in the Gilbertson PVC box. Cleaned two nests out this week from each of two nests. I have 15 Gilbertsons in my trail of 47 here in Mich. Most have been quite successful. However, now I have another problem. One of my Gilbertson boxes held a BB nest with 6 eggs last week. When I checked on it yesterday, only 3 eggs remained and the nest was not disturbed. I feel this must have been a snake although this situation has not happened before. I've had predation from raccoons and hawks but never snakes in this location. Can anyone enlighten me on what kind of snake this would be, or perhaps was it some other kind of predator? Also which kind is guard will work best in this situation? Thank you all. Elaine in Pinckney, Mi., (16 miles N. of Ann Arbor) Dave Bagley wrote: Hello Pauline Tom/All, ... Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 23:35:54 -0400 (EDT) Hi Elaine, perhaps this isn't a snake that took the eggs out of the nest box. Mi. is in house Wren territory and they are noted for removing eggs. The culprit will be back since there are more eggs left. You should be able to hear a wren sing in the area if that is what removed the eggs. If this was a snake it will no doubt return also. In Ohio a plain Garter snake was once found with a Bluebird egg in it. More often black rat snakes get in nests. You ask what might do this and I assume you know the remedy for keeping snakes out. Joe Huber Venice,Fl. Charter member NABS, Charter member OBS, Life member OBS Joe Huber http://community.webtv.net/hubertrap/HOUSESPARROWCONTROL http://community.webtv.net/hubertrap/RoostingBluebirds
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 05:11:58 -0500 Hello All - I doubt that anyone on the list would disagree that anytime you make hard and fast rules about something you will be proven wrong. I remember telling my mother that my kids would not eat turnip greens, guess what, they ate them like they were candy. The would not touch them at home. Each of us has probably experienced something similar, whether with humans or birds. I welded up some 3" steel boiler tubing for clothes line posts and installed them for my mother. For many years bluebirds have built in the horizontal end of one of those three inch posts. I have no idea of what kind of configuration their nest would look like if it was visible. Since it happens year after year, I have to assume they the birds are pleased with this small, thin walled steel tubing. The houses that NABS recommends certainly should produce better results, but bluebirds will sometimes turn down a well designed house to nest in an almost impossible site. I recently read a statement in a birding magazine that a bluebird would not nest except in a box or cavity. My first remembrance of seeing a nesting bluebird was seeing one nesting in the top of a rotted out fence post, evidently someone forgot to tell her that was a no, no. Best regards, Bruce Johnson ~ Life Mbr. NABS
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 07:34:48 -0500 Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas Pauline Tom wrote:Because I found plans for NABS-approved 4" PVC nest boxes, I've been promoting the use of the style (as well as approved styles with 4" x 4" floor space). What was the reasoning behind NABS eventually approving the PVC box and those smaller than 5" diameter - after they were not originally suggested for bluebirds? Originally NABS approved the 5" diameter PVC and made and sold these ONLY in white PVC boxes with a 14" depth that were 10" deep from floor to bottom of hole. They also only came with a wood predator guard block that was made from a 1&1/2" thick wood (2X4) as the 1/4" thick wall was considered too thin to prevent starlings and other predators from reaching the nest contents. The thickness of the box front and shape of the hole helps determine the amount of reach into a nestbox. Experiment with this theory on your boxes or tests holes in varying thicknesses of material to see for yourself. Once again the early designs were based on research showing that small nest cavities led to nests not being able to be cleaned. A dirty nest filled with dropping will emit more scent. The research showed higher mortality of nestlings in boxes where the square inch per bird was below 4 square inches per bird. Early approved boxes did not take into consideration of whether or not a bird would build a nest in box that was not healthy for it!!! Very few if any nestboxes were mounted on predator proof poles with guards that actually worked at stopping predators. Ron Kingston's stove pipe guard and the Harry Krueger snake trap have literally saved hundreds of thousands of nesting birds of many different species! Very simply put a box had to have ALL of the following guidelines met. It had to have an entrance hole that WOULD NOT let any starlings enter. Not any gray area like few starlings in some parts of the country or they can easily enter but seldom build nests.... Starlings were considered predators that have a lot of reach into a nestbox with a thin front. Somewhere I have research showing that they can remove food from inside a nestbox with a 1&1/2" entrance hole to a depth of 4&1/2" or the same depth of many current nestboxes without even a nest in the box! This was absolutely mandatory! Minimum depth of 6" between floor and entrance hole. Minimum size of 4"X4", yes the bluebirds nestcup is small enough to fit the 4" round PVC pipe but large nestlings soon spill out of the nestcup. Drainage holes and ventilation were needed. Variations in ventilation were permitted but still have to cool the box and keep it dry. (The once popular Vince Bauldry and open roofed/raised roof designs were never approved.) The box had to be able to be opened. They had to pass rigorous heat test comparisons and be of durable material. Deep boxes had to have interior "ladders" for tree swallows. There was a lengthy period of time involved! If ONE of the criteria was not met the box design was shipped back for changes and not tested on the other points. At some point in time they changed this process to streamline it for box manufacturers. As the original NABS officers and board members stepped down or passed away, many of the newer members felt it was better to issue guidelines and approve a box without the whole testing process. Only with the advent of the Transcontinental Bluebird Trail could actual comparisons of nestboxes and the various materials EVER be attempted. Now we can actually compare entrance holes to box sizes to see IF guidelines should be changed. You can compare eggs laid to eggs hatched to young fledged in hundreds of different scenarios and if "A" style loses say 15% more young than "B" style we can decide IF we want to accept this loss or switch box styles! This will only work if more people register their nestboxes and submit data that can be quickly and easily annualized. Dean, John someone step in here and give the whole process for registering and submitting TBT data! This real-time data is the ONLY way to actually find out what is safe and what does and does not work! Yes I have used hundreds of 4" PVC nestboxes since the late 1970's but are we actually fledging more young per nesting attempt from them or from 5"x5" wood nestboxes? Submit your nestbox data! Bluebirds often chose a pipe tube attached to mailboxes for the daily paper in my area and these are often facing a 70 MPH highway just 36" away from the high speed traffic. It seems like this gene pool would get wiped out but they nest every single year in these. Build and use a nestbox designed to limit your local predators and not necessarily a generic design that is OK for the entire country! If you don't have tree swallows you don't need interior ladders. Deeper boxes should be safer from some predators. House sparrows evidently
are not reading that smaller, shallower boxes are not to be nested in. Use
various styles and see what works. Build more boxes and place in wider areas!
Observe closely and monitor, monitor, monitor......KK Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 09:00:44 -0400 Bruce Johnson wrote: The houses that NABS recommends certainly should produce In the case of the 4 inch Gilbertson PVC, I think the only thing the smaller diameter does is limit the number of eggs. The bluebirds seem to lay 3 eggs in the Gilbertson PVCs that we use. VMS
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 09:40:44 -0400 At 09:00 AM 4/27/2001 -0400, v. m. straus wrote: Bruce Johnson wrote: My Gilbertson's usually have 4 Wendell
Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 21:17:44 -0500 Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas One thing I noticed about the Gilbertson box pictures is that they are painted on the inside of the pipe and that the paint is chipping and flaking off especially where the birds are scratching to get out of the box. Are all of these boxes painted on the inside and if so why? The birds of all species nest in PVC pipe boxes if they are left white. KK Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 08:31:04 -0500 Pauline Tom Unfortunately, sparrow resistant PVC (Gilbertson) nest boxes on the trail I manage are used by House Sparrows. I understand a trap is available for this style box. (It's not available from Huber.) I'm looking for the most economical version. Any suggestions? (Please post to list, since I'm not the only one with HOSP in PVC boxes and the traps are not readily available.) Note: I sent the following Message to Pauline directly as the list was down.Pauline, Although I have no problems with sparrows using my Gilbertson style PVC boxes I understand that is not the case for everyone. Steve Gilbertson does sell a trap that works well in his boxes (so I have been told). Here is the pertinent information from my web site: PVC SPARROW RESISTANT BLUEBIRD BOXES Birch-print PVC box $10 each; (minimum order 2 for $20) I am curious about your "Gilbertson boxes", are they truly Gilbertson boxes (made by Steve) or are they what I call "Gilbertson style" (made by someone else)? If they are "Gilbertson style" are they made to the same specifications as Steve makes them? I ask this because I know for a fact that Steve did some pretty extensive studies to make them as sparrow resistant as he could. Obviously he did not achieve total house sparrow resistance or he wouldn't have developed a house sparrow trap for them. Also please discuss this with Steve if you should call or write him (he doesn't have email). He will be more than helpful. Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 19:15:10 EDT In a Message dated 5/9/2001 4:14:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time, kridler"at"1starnet.com writes: Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas When this question came up I went straight to the designer of the Gilbertson PVC nestbox for an answer. His response was as follows: Dark inside for 2 reasons: Steve uses Olympic brand solid brown stain NOT latex. It will not "flake" off, but can be scraped off with a fingernail or with a bird's nails/claws. Latex will definitely not stick to PVC. Some brands of PVC pipe hold stain less well than others, and the stain can be worn off easily. Hope this helps those questioning the use of stain inside Gilbertson nestboxes. If you have further questions and would like Steve's phone number so that you can discuss it with him, please feel free to write to me privately for his number. I am sure he would welcome any additional discussion regarding this subject. Diane Barbin Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 20:50:59 -0400 Haleya Priest Amherst MA I just received this email from a friend for whom I put up a Gilbertson last year. She just found the box destroyed. Any thoughts? It was mounted on electric conduit with no predator guard. Snip: "Saturday I found the Gilberstson box open & destroyed about 6 feet from the pole. Either somebody hit it with a baseball bat or maybe a racoon got it open. Anyway there were feathers everywhere."
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 21:10:12 -0500 Hi gang: I just noticed a question about Gilbertson boxes on The Bluebird Box Forum at
http://apps3.vantagenet.com/zforums/thread.asp?id=2615141656 . The Pasted question: Brett End of Paste I have no experience with Gilbertson boxes. But if this is true, they certainly do not need to be used where Tree Swallows are near. Does anyone know the answer to this question? Thanks, C. Daschle Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 22:55:27 -0400 Haleya Priest Amherst MA There is some controversy over the small size of Gilbertson boxes, but many, many, many bluebirders have used them for a very long time with great success. Look up Scriven's book, Bluebird Trails, or go to the Best of Bluebird-l on the discussion of Gilbertson boxes. I don't' know the direct URL but you can find it on the Bluebird Reference Guide "at" http://crosswinds.net/~bluebirdguide/ Steve Gilbertson, the inventor of the Gilbertson PVC box, found the small 4" size to be the size to use to discourage house sparrow use. Goodness knows how many thousands of babies (including tree swallows) that have successfully fledged from the Gilbertson box. I had a nest of 7 Tree Swallows (TRES) last year in a Gilbertson and every one fledged safely. H :-) Craig Daschle wrote: Hi gang: ... Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 11:46:49 -0400 Haleya Priest wrote: There is some controversy over the small size of Gilbertson boxes, but Just to add my 2-year's amateur's experience, our bluebirds go back to it like it's their old home, every time. They treat it like it's just right. If you think about it, it looks like and is about the size of a medium-large birch tree branch. VMS Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 17:54:25 -0700 Sorry, but I lost the info on people who sell various types of BB boxes. I particularly am interested in trying one made of PVC. I also want some poles or attachments for the poles, (the one that takes seconds to put up). Can I use the marvelous monofilament line on PVC's? It definitely keeps the HOSP away. The favorite box (by the BB's) I presently have is the Peterson. Swallows used the Standard box, but that could be because the Peterson was occupied at the time by HOSP. I now have fishing line on 3 of my 5 boxes and no HOSP will come near. I yet to have a nest in one, but the interest is there from 2 different BB couples. Thanks so much for all the great ideas from this list. From: "Bonnie A. Yeager"
dement"at"frognet.net I am building a new PVC box and would like to make it raccoon proof. To do this, I need to know how far a raccoon can reach inside of a box made from 4 inch diameter PVC pipe, given: it is mounted in a horizontal position and cannot be moved; it is 3 ft. long with a 1.5 inch entrance hole at one end and a solid end cap on the other end; that the raccoon is in an optimal position to maximize its reach into the box. Assume, for the sake of calculating reach, that there is a hamburger next to the end cap inside of the pipe 3 ft. from the 1.5 inch entrance hole. The raccoon is not allowed to use any tools to get the hamburger! The size of the raccoon is certainly a factor here, so please take that into consideration. Thank you, From: "Michael Wheatley"
sialia"at"cyberdude.com -- From: "Bonnie A. Yeager" dement"at"frognet.net Linda Violett has graciously added pictures of my new PVC bluebird box to her web page at http://home.earthlink.net/~lviolett/. The PVC box is built from a PVC "Y", 4" diameter, schedule 40 pipe. This box should be waterproof even when facing into a strong storm and predator proof - four legged only. The top and bottom caps are removable for cleaning and nest inspection. Please visit her web site and let me know what you think. Thank you Linda. You are very generous. Fred Yeager From: "Myron & Garnet" mngrau"at"accn.org I found information on the internet concerning Steve Gilbertson's pvc bb box and house sp trap. I called him, and he said the address on the web is wrong and he doesn't know how to get it changed. For any of you who can change it as follows: Steve Gilbertson Myron Rau Subject: PVC boxes I can't find past posts on the subject of PVC boxes for Bluebirds. I have a few questions. 1.) do PVC boxes tend to discourage sparrows? 2.) are PVC boxes cooler or warmer than wood boxes? 3.) do the inside of PVC boxes make it harder for fledglings to get out of the box? Alicia Craig Visit a list of the wonderful organizations we support http://www.wbu.com/alliances/ Be a Citizen Scientist, visit http://birds.cornell.edu/citsci/ Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 11:47:51 -0400 At 09:46 AM 5/2/2002 -0500, Alicia Craig wrote: ... Dear Ms. Craig, We began with wood boxes and everything was fine. We changed to include a number of Gilbertson PVC--so we had a mixed bag--wood and PVC. And all was well. When a sparrow had a choice, it chose the wood box. We changed and now we are at 100% Gilbertson PVC boxes(16 boxes on 16 acres). The park across the street(10,550 acres) has somewhat less than 300 wood boxes. The volunteers monitor but have usual mixed feelings as to sparrows and are limited in the time they have to give--and the rangers are very busy with other assigned duties. We have no indication of any temperature problems with our PVC. And we have no indication of the fledglings having any special problems getting out of the boxes. We use the Gilbertson Trap. Wendell Long http://www2.go-concepts.com/~mrsimple Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 19:37:18 -0400 Haleya Priest Amherst MA Yes, PVC boxes discourage HOSP. Why? Because Dr Wayne Davis and others The general method is to place a PVC box in the vicinity of a wooden box. That way you are giving the HOSP a suitable living arrangement i.e., the wooden box. Generally the HOSP will go to the wooden box where they can be trapped and the EABL will go to the PVC box since the HOSP has taken the wooden box. Also EABL don't mind nesting in PVC boxes. There is no stopping a rogue HOSP so yes, there have been EABLS killed in PVC boxes, but far far less than those in wooden boxes. 2.) are PVC boxes cooler or warmer than wood boxes? PVC boxes are both cooler and warmer than wooden boxes. This can be a problem. I don't think one can use a PVC box in Texas unless it is in full shade. Even then it might be a problem. But for those farther north find that if the nest stays dry, the nesting cycle isn't disrupted due to cold and isn't disrupted in the heat of the summer. I have begun to paint my PVC boxes white and with as with my wooden boxes, use shade roofs to avoid the hot summer sun. A PVC box is more vulnerable to temperature shifts. It will heat up faster in the sun and it will cool down faster once the sun is off the box. The latter is advantageous in the summer, but the fact that it heats up faster is a disadvantage. Likewise, in the cold weather, a PVC box will stay colder, but if the sun is out will heat up sooner. 3.) do the inside of PVC boxes make it harder for fledglings to get There is research (antidotal?) that shows the nestlings need a certain amount of room in the box for proper wing development. However, 1,000's of bluebirds have fledged without a problem. I've had SIX TRES all fledge successfully from a PVC and apparently that is not uncommon. There are many bluebirders who use PVC exclusively. I don't. I still prefer wooden roomier boxes. Those are sites in which the HOSP population is very low. In high HOSP population sites, of which I have a few, I wouldn't DREAM of tackling the problem without my PVC boxes. In each of those sites, I've never lost a bluebird to a HOSP attack, nor have bluebirds been kicked out of a PVC by a HOSP. I have lost one PVC nest of TRES to a rogue HOSP who also attacked and killed 2 other nests of TRES and bluebirds in my wooden boxes within a 24hr period. I now use Andy Troyer green painted PVC boxes (they are incredibly easy to make) for early spring use and white painted PVC boxes for 2nd/summer nesters. I couldn't imagine being without my PVC boxes! Thank you Steve Gilbertson and
many others who have helped in the process. Hope this helps! :-) H Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 00:16:17 -0700 (PDT) --- Alicia Craig craiga"at"wbu.com wrote: ... ===== From: "Keith & Sandy Kridler" kridler"at"1starnet.com Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas A house sparrow seldom is given all of the choices in a single location and they often choose nest sites with entrances only sheet metal thick and some far smaller in cavity size than 4" diameter pipe. What House Sparrows prefer and what they normally do doesn't matter very much when you only have one pair of bluebirds nesting in a PVC box out of hundreds of boxes in the area and sparrows enter and kill the young like they did to Pauline down in Austin Texas....She has lost more bluebirds, killed by sparrows, in PVC boxes than in wooden boxes! The original PVC nestboxes were all made from Schedule 40 pipe that has 1/4" thick walls or 4 times the thickness of the Gilbertson boxes made from S&D (Sewer and Drain) 1/16" thick walls. The original PVC bluebird boxes were made from 6" & 5" and 4" diameter round white pipe because white was one of the colors least preferred by both Starlings and House Sparrows when they were given a choice of nestbox colors both interior and exterior. Most of these PVC boxes were VERY deep compared to the PVC boxes used today by most people. NABS was recommending 10" or more depth from hole to floor and adding 1&1/2" thick wood entrance blocks to these boxes and they were still considered House Sparrow resistant. NABS early tests showed bluebirds fledging from PVC boxes even 13" deep with minimal problems reported even from those with Tree Swallows using the early boxes but these boxes had larger floor areas possibly allowing the swallows to "fly" to the entrance hole. The heat tests on these thicker walled PVC boxes conducted by Robert Patterson, NABS first president showed that these PVC boxes heated up SLOWER than 3/4" thick natural wood color pine nestboxes or OPPOSITE of the heat tests of the S&D PVC boxes tested by other people years later but they also tended to cool down quicker the same as the thinner walled pipe. These also reached lower overall temperatures than all of the 3/4" thick wood box styles tested. The Cornell heat study with the data loggers should help give an idea of nestbox orientation and nestbox style for the best possible installation according to heat gain. Later fledging from deeper boxes: I would like to see more research done on this! OK robin's leave the nest before they can fly and in urban settings they believe that up to 60% of the young can perish within a week. Bluebirds on the other hand can normally fly 50 to 100 feet and tend to have higher survival rates than robins. I have seen some young more developed that could fly hundreds of feet and others who were capable of landing on a power line wire for the first landing while others hop out of the box and crash land within a dozen feet. I "BELIEVE" that we could dramatically increase survival of the young birds IF they were to stay in a nestbox an extra day or two or three. Depth of box and slickness of insides of the box tend to have little effect on keeping the young bluebirds inside the nestbox because they tend to be able to hop to the entrance hole well before they are ready to fly. Survival rates would have to be determined with radio controlled devices from different box styles (various floor sizes) and fledge dates to determine if one box style were better at fledging stronger young birds better able to keep up with the parents and more importantly able to avoid predators. I believe that larger floor area will allow more exercise and just because all 7 baby bird fledge from a 4" pipe box does not mean they are ready to start and fly a marathon when that predator gets them in their sights hours after they fledge! KK From: Jennabirds"at"aol.com To all, I try not to even include the words resistent and proof in the same sentence as HS and nesting boxes because it does nothing but confuse a lot of people, gives others false hope, while others (birding retailers in questionable bluebird habitat) benefit financially from such phrases. I have spoken extensively with both Andy Troyer and Steve Gilbertson about their nesting boxes designed to deter HS nesting. They both are very well educated, convincing and passionate when using the term House sparrow resistent. They are adamantly against using the term house sparrow proof. When I hang up the phone from talking to them about this issue, I am crystal clear about the term resistent. But when I try to explain it to others, it is nearly impossible without misrepresenting them. The problem I see with such terms as Sparrow resistant, is the misuse of such terms. Birding retailers and manufacturers, both intentionally and unintentionally take these terms and use them as sales pitches to sell their products in questionable bluebird habitat. A lot of times, this is a formula for false hope to the new bluebirder and creates house sparrow trails in the end. Just because a house sparrow prefers not to nest in a certain design nesting box, doesn't mean that he won't nest in it if that is the only cavity available. It most definitely doesn't keep him from visiting the nesting box for a few seconds and killing everything in sight as well. Then you end up with panic stricken and discouraged bluebird landlords. Even if the house sparrow has been discouraged to nest in a well educated bluebirders neighborhood postage stamp size back yard, they have only passed the problem on to other unsuspecting neighbors who are just happy to have something nesting in their nesting boxes. I am a firm believer of controlling your HS population by the aggressive means of trapping and eliminating before a bluebird nesting box should be erected. The problem with this approach is that it usually takes a sacrificial bluebird or two before most people (myself included) are convinced that such extreme actions are necessary. My trail has nesting boxes paired together using all kinds of combinations. The science behind each pairing is simple and basic. It was what I had easiest access to and what my mood was when I decided to add another nesting box. PVC, slot, Peterson and regular NABS styles have all succeeded and failed on my bluebird trail. But HS have also tried to nest in each as well. I even had a cowbird dump an egg last year into a PVC nesting box. That is all for now. Please be careful when using the term Resistant and never use the term Proof when talking about nesting boxes and HS. Thanks. David A. Magness From: "paul kilduff" plkldf"at"hotmail.com Paul Kilduff, Baltimore MD I just saw semi-comic documentary, "Blue Vinyl," at Baltimore Film Festival. The movie will show tonight (Sun May 5) on HBO at 10 p.m. eastern. There's a description of it at I recommend it to bluebirders who use PVC predator guards or boxes. As far as boxes are concerned, such as Bluebird Bob's, I now appreciate more
than ever the degree to which keeping scrap PVC out of incinerators is a As far as predator guards are concerned, I've been using PVC because it's cheap and non-rusting and easy to cut. I think I've used my last PVC predator guard, now that I've seen the movie. best, Nestboxes (Gilbertson & other PVC) Part 2 |
BEST OF BLUEBIRD_L CLASSIFIEDS HOME | Audubon Society of Omaha | The Bluebird Box | Bluebird FAQs | Search | Contact meAll material was originally posted on the Bluebird_L or Bluebird mailing list, and has been reposted here with slight modifications to make the posts more readable in an HTML format. In cases in which quoted material has been deleted to save space, this is indicated by an ellipsis (...)For more information about Bluebird_L, check out http://www.cit.corn.edu/cit-pubs/email/using-lists/index.htm. If you wish to contact the author of a post, you will need to edit the e-mail address, replacing "at" with the "at" symbol (above the number 2 on your keyboard). (This change was made to discourage spammers.)If you are the author of a posting and would like to see a particular post (or posts) removed from these web pages, please contact me with the web page address, title of post, and date and time of the post(s), and I will remove whatever material you like. If you have a different opinion from one posted here, you need not contact me, as often I will have a different opinion too. The intent is to try and provide both sides to the issues facing bluebirders, and to do so in an impartial and objective manner.If you have problems, encounter broken links (unless they are within an e-mail thread, as I do not maintain those links), or have suggestions on how the site can be improved to make it more useful, please contact the Best of Bluebird-L Classifieds webmaster.Website design by
Chimalis
|
