Nestboxes (Opening - side, top, front)

In addition to Messages that have appeared in the Bluebird Mailing Lists on this topic, the following are on the Audubon Society of Omaha website: 

• Nestbox Comparison Studies from New York
• That Remarkable Peterson Entrance by Wayne H. Davis
• Those Oval Holes
• The great entrance-hole debate by Myrna Pearman
• Starlings and oval-holed nest boxes by Kevin Berner
• NestBox software (shareware) demo
• Bluebird Nestbox Drawings
• Nestbox Mounting Methods
• Nestbox, Sparrow Trap, Coon Guard Drawings
• Roost Boxes
• Other Nestboxes
• Nestbox Preferences
• Descriptive Nesting Histories Of Possible Bluebird Box Occupants
• ROOFS —  Everything  MORE THAN You Wanted to Know by Steve Eno
• Winterizing Your Bluebird Boxes Permanently by Svante Humbla
• Results of Additional Research Regarding the Bauldry/Open Topped Box Design by Diane Barbin.
• Pairing houses: How do you do the math? by Linda Janilla

From: "paul kilduff" plkldf"at"hotmail.com
To: BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: side-opening boxes
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 20:44:06 +0000

Paul Kilduff, Baltimore MD

 

"Katherine S. Wolfthal" WROTE:

. . . can anyone suggest a method for looking inside a nestbox that
opens from the side? These are tree swallows, and with all the
feathers, I'm finding it very difficult to see inside, even with the
help of two mirrors.

On our trail at Oregon Ridge Park, Cockeysville, Baltimore Co., MD, I encountered resistance when introducing side-opening boxes. However, I made some according to the NABS plan and they were side-opening, and I basically asked our monitors to try to get used to them. They didn't.

So I just moved the roofs back slightly (they were plenty big already) to prevent rain from coming through the seam, and added a hinge from the bottom of the roof to the back of the box, and now even our new-NABS boxes are top-opening. Everyone is more comfortable, and if we go to check a box that has 12+ d.o. nestlings, we stuff a sock into the hole and open it from the top.

(In previous years, all our boxes opened from top, and there is no written record of premature fledging, so I take it it was rare or non-existent. I extrapolate that to: "premature fledgings are rare to non-existent in top-opening boxes")

The only boxes we have now that do not open from the top are our Petersons, which at least have the virture of opening *down* rather than up. Still,
recently I saw no adults and heard no peeps on a Peterson with 14 d.o. nestlings, and I felt I needed to look; in case there was a snake in there I wanted to document it. The babies were possuming, but the one closest to the front was actually hanging out of the nest. I closed it again but thought, "what if I've trapped its little head between the nest and the door?" I re-opened it and all seemed okay, and the box has since apparently successfully fledged.

I have promised our monitors that next year, even our Petersons (which we've been really pleased with, production-wise) will be top-opening next year.

We basically use the side openings for clean-out, and monitor from above. The blowfly larvae question seems to come down on the side of "it's natural, not harmful, leave it alone," so I see no advantage to checking for larvae, another supposed advantage of side opening.

I'm inviting opposition here: I think boxes should open from top and side/front, for monitoring and clean-out, respectively. If I could choose only one, I'd choose top-opening.

What think?

Paul in Baltimore

Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 17:13:18 -0400
From: "Katherine S. Wolfthal" kate"at"weichi.com
To: plkldf"at"hotmail.com
CC: BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: side-opening boxes

paul kilduff wrote:

I'm inviting opposition here: I think boxes should open from top and
side/front, for monitoring and clean-out, respectively. If I could
choose only one, I'd choose top-opening.

What think?

Paul in Baltimore

_________________________________________________________________
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Four of my seven boxes that open from the top (one of these was so altered by me) and I like those *much better. Unfortunately, the one the TRES are in would be very difficult to change, as it has a pitched roof, and certainly not while there are birds nesting in it. Since all the boxes are on my property and I
observe them on a daily basis, I don't really need to check after about 11 days, so I've never had a premature fledging problem.

I know there are different schools of thought on this, but I think it's very much a question of personal preference. Next year I will make sure all my boxes are top-opening. If they also open from the side, so much the better. But I'd rather clean out from the top than monitor from the side.

 

--
Katherine
Weston, MA
kate"at"weichi.com

From: "Fawzi P. Emad femad <at> fpemad <dot> com
To: plkldf"at"hotmail.com, BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: side-opening boxes
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 18:36:33 -0400

Paul and list members, I used to like top opening boxes, so when I changed to "front" opening boxes, or "side" opening boxes, I made them "front and top" opening or "side and top" opening. That was because I had been so used to the top opening boxes, much like the monitors who work with Paul. I now no longer use the "top" opening boxes, and even if they open on the top, I see no reason to open the top. Here is my reasoning:

All my boxes are mounted at the recommended height of "eye-level" and for me that means about 5' to 6'. If I open the top, that would be well above my eye level, so I cannot inspect the inside of the box. People on horseback would like such an arrangement, but I do not have a horse! Using a ladder is not easy in the park, and dangerous on uneven ground.

It is hard to clean top opening boxes. But, they are good for taking pictures of nest and babies (which I don't do.)

Side opening boxes make it difficult to install traps (such as Huber trap) hence I make my boxes to open in the front. These can be made to swing down or up. ***Such boxes (front opening) are my choice.

Fawzi

Fawzi Emad in Laytonsville, Maryland
femad"at"comcast.net

From: "paul kilduff" plkldf"at"hotmail.com
To: BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 4:44 PM
Subject: Re: side-opening boxes

I'm inviting opposition here: I think boxes should open from top and
side/front, for monitoring and clean-out, respectively. If I could
choose only one, I'd choose top-opening.

What think?

Paul in Baltimore

From: Snoopy [mailto:snoopy"at"wmis.net]
Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 8:05 AM
Subject: unopenable nestboxes

There is a trail at one of our local elementary schools, full of these unopenable nest boxes that were made by middle school students in shop class..... just last friday I sent out 2 letters... ONE to the shop class teacher, asking him to teach his students to put hinges on one side of the boxes (another good lesson for them so why not?) to make them cleanable, and another to the principal of the school asking him if I could be allowed to moniter their trail. The boxes are not all that sturdy (I found several with the tops knocked off, etc) so if they get replaced by boxes with hinges, would be great. I don't want to push putting hinges on these boxes because they have students names on them, and the students are proud of them. I also included a copy of the letter someone on this list made (I can't remember who off hand) as a handout about unmanaged nest boxes. I think it explains everything so much better than I can. & I put my # for the contact # on it, in case they pass it on to other people. Thanks to whoever wrote and posted that letter. Joy in Michigan...

From: Bet Zimmerman [mailto:ezdz"at" charter.net]
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 5:28 PM
RE: sheer luck

I think there are so many improper boxes out there because people think you don't have to monitor or maintain them or clean them out - so why would they need to be opened? Sigh.... I snuck over to a neighbors house (she's in a nursing home) and fixed her box so it would open and put a hole reducer on it so it would only be used by chickadees or wrens, and the daughter (who is maintaining the house) wondered where the box came from--she didn't even realize it had been on a tree in their yard for about 20 years! Bet http://www.sialis.org/neglect.htm Handout on neglected nestboxes that are breeding HOSP

From: Lawrence Herbert [mailto:lherbert"at"4state.com]
Sent: Mon 8/15/2005 4:57 AM
Subject: hinge from top or bottom?

My bluebird houses open on the side with the "hinges" (nails) on top.
So I grasp the lower portion of the board in order to swing it open for monitoring.

The reason I make them with the hinge a couple inches from the top is in order for the side to swing shut by gravity in case other curious persons look in and not secure the side.

At least two or three times a year I have a box that humans looked in and didn't close the side. Fortunately the side "sort of closed shut on its own" since the nail hinges were on top.

Here's a question: If the bluebird was already in the incubation stage or beyond and then the box was opened and left that way would the bluebirds accept that situation and finish nesting? Or, since the side is open to the elements, would they desert?

Good birding, Larry H. Joplin MO.

FROM: Paul Kilduff
Sent: 8/15/05
Subject: hinge from top or bottom?

Paul Kilduff
trail at Oregon Ridge Park, Cockeysville, Baltimore County, MD

Personally I have never seen the utility of side-opening boxes. I hate 'em!! As Maynard observes, there is a built-in instability to the side-openers, in addition to which as the bottom swings out the top swings in, and DOWN (look out below!). As well, it is really hard to see INTO the nest from the side, while trying to look under the opened side-piece of the box. To me they encourage premature fledging. I hate 'em!

Virtually all the boxes on our trail are top openers. I use 1x12 lumber for the lids (even if you buy your boxes you can still substitute 12" wood for the roofs) and, for a regular NABS-style box I use a 12"x12" square piece. I take a hinge and attach one part to the back of the box and the other part to the underside of the lid. The overhang in back protects against rain coming in through the hinge (I also use a bit of caulk to sort of seal the opening). I fasten the lid by putting a screw through the lid down into the front of the box. The screw holes wear out eventually, but making new ones isn't hard.

The boxes also side-open (or front-open for Peterson-style) for cleaning. I use blue masonry screws to indicate to the volunteers which screws are for them to use, so a typical box on our trail has two blue screws, one in the roof for observation and one in the side for cleaning.

Any side-opener can be converted to top-opening simply by putting on an oversize roof and hingeing it to the back of the box.

Top opening allows easier counting/observation and discourages premature fledging (in conjunction with putting a piece of cloth in the hole) by making the would-be escapers *climb a wall* rather than *fall out of the box*. What's not to like?

Paul in Baltimore

I have never seen birdhouses with the hinges at the top. Everything I 've ever seen has the hinges on the lower portion of the doorway. This makes it better to see the nest when checking on the nestlings or eggs. The top hinge could wreck everything in the nestbox!

Jim Koehler, Miltona, MN

Dear Paul and friends,

All well an true Paul, but then again not all side opening nest boxes are created equal. My very first side opening nest box was given to me by a friend of mine at California Fish and Game, a standard NABS shed roof design with dual "dog-eared" cut corners at the top of each side panel for ventilation. Fledged plenty of birds for year from this nest box without incident.

The cool thing about this nest box was that it had a clear plastic shield inside so you could look at the baby birds and the screws that hinged the bottom left side clean out panel allowed the panel to be opened from the top downwards (like a Peterson) preventing premature fledging, plus easier cleaning (easier cleaning is not the forte of a top opening nest box.) To keep the clean out panel closed, a hole was drilled through the roof into the clean out panel and secured with duplex nail that was pushed through the hole. I still use this duplex nail technique an all my nest box, but our holes are drilled through the bottom front not the top.

Given that, lets look at other side openers like Gary Springer Chalet or our Meadowood Bluebird. Yes, I have to agree that it makes it hard to look at the baby birds from the side clean out panel on these models, but simple unscrew the 8 screws that secure the gable roof down and PRESTO, you have all the advantages and more of a hinged roof (i.e.
preventing premature fledging, taking great pictures of baby Bluebirds from the top, the above gives superior ventilation for our hotter regions, protruding front roof provides superior protection from marauding mammals and of course easier cleaning.)

I've built them all, and though I like the Peterson, the cost of building one is to high as compared to the Chalet or our Meadowood Bluebird that I prefer to build.

The other side to this is no matter how you open your nest box, one must know or have a good idea when the birds are near fledging. I always open nest boxes with extreme caution, giving the baby birds enough time to back up into the nest box. To date I've only had one baby bird fall out of a nest box and that was because the birder that I was training opened the side door abruptly so the baby birds inside didn't have time to adjust to our visit.

Anyway, regardless how anyone feel about a particular this or that nest box, it's all about putting up a properly designed nest box and above all managing it properly.

Cheers and as always...

Happy Bluebird Trails To You,

John Schuster

Paul, Lawrence, et al,
I have never had the slightest trouble with side-opening boxes, I have never had them squash eggs or nests, or even touch them. I have no difficulty seeing what's inside; I just simply look in, and my chin is about the height of the top of the nest. I've never detected any "built-in instability."
They lock with about three clockwise turns of a round-head screw, and unlock with three counterclockwise. No problem. The caulking around the roofboard remains undisturbed.
I hate hot oatmeal cereal, but I've never hated a nest-box, at least not yet.

Bruce Burdett, SW NH

Quickly: Thanks, John, for the feedback -- just would like to make three comments:

1) I use fairly large hinges (I think they're 2-1/2") with three holes per side.

-----Original Message-----
From: John Schuster [mailto:wildwingco"at"earthlink.net]

[snip]
plus easier cleaning (easier cleaning is not the forte of a top opening nest box.)

2) Again, our boxes have a side opening for cleaning -- if it sounds complicated, it isn't -- I use screw construction and I just make sure I position two screws so that the side will swing up and out -- I then fasten the bottom of that section to the floor of the box -- piece of cake.

Given that, lets look at other side openers like Gary Springer Chalet or our Meadowood Bluebird. Yes, I have to agree that it makes it hard to look at the baby birds from the side clean out panel on these models, but simple unscrew the 8 screws that secure the gable roof down and PRESTO, you have all the advantages and more of a hinged roof

3) Personally I don't like the Springer Chalet, because observing is VERY difficult from the side with the ones I made from Gary's plans, and removing a bunch of screws isn't practical -- wouldn't go over very well with the volunteers -- I actually hinged our Springer roofs, but the setup doesn't work very well. I thought about hingeing the roof at the peak, but couldn't see how to make that weatherproof. They do have excellent ventilation, but here in MD that ventilation can be a negative in April and May -- perhaps TOO airy.... I've plugged most of the vent slot with foam insulation.

[snip]

Paul in Baltimore

Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas
My first nestboxes I built with nice brass hinges with top opening, slant roof boxes. When you start building and giving away hundreds of nestboxes, hinges get expensive and I switched to a design similar to the old NABS design where the roof is wedged tight at the back and held on with a long screw at the front. This worked fine in a persons yard, but livestock knocked off the tops and people began pulling the tops up to see what was in these nestboxes.

They would then lay the top on the box and the next storm the wind would blow it off exposing the nest or leaving a box without a top. Over a 10 to
15 year period the box would separate from the back of the nestbox and I found that building a side opening nestbox with the roof firmly attached to the front and back board added years of service to a nestbox and made these practically livestock proof!

Hinges will rust over winter and require oiling at some point or when you open the box the screws will pull out of the wood.

The only baby birds I ever recall falling out of a nestbox were in a Peterson box with the bottom sloping and the box opened from the top down I only had about four of these nestboxes and the nest and all babies fell out of the box when I carelessly opened the box. I use a box with the 10" long side opening from the bottom up and with the pivot nails within 1" of the top of the sides, the side only enters into the box/nest area 1/4" more than when in the closed position. The side then is giving you a full 8" of space between the top of the bottom board and the side!

I lost one woodpecker egg out of my side opening boxes over the years and lost a couple more titmouse eggs from Peterson nestbox styles.

For good photographs you need to remove the entire nest from the box as shooting down in the box nearly always leaves shadow lines or the flash will bounce light off of the sides or top edge of the nestbox.

By opening the nestbox from the bottom up you can easily slip your hand into the slowly widening crack to catch a House Sparrow in the nestbox. I lost far more sparrows out of top opening nestboxes.

Premature fledglings: Maybe bluebirds are different in other parts of the country but I open thousands of nestboxes a year and I don't recall EVER having young birds jump out of a nestbox when I checked in on them that could not fly off to trees easily. Some did leave the box when I opened it but they were ready to fledge and I had just as many if not more leave the box when the sky appeared over their heads when I removed the top!

If you are having baby birds jumping out of nestboxes that cannot fly then there probably are other factors that have these birds scared to death.
Normally even at age 16>18 days if you open the nestbox gently and carefully these older birds will hunker down in the nest and play dead. Now if you make sudden moves towards them or jerk the nestbox around trying to open it they would explode like a covey of quail.

Shawn and I will have taught more than 1,000 people this year how to make a bluebird nestbox. It is impossible to have 6 years olds using screw drivers.
We often have to teach 6>10 adults how to make a nestbox and then help them teach 30 or 40 kids to build a nestbox in just one hour. You cannot teach a group how to build some of the popular styles of nestboxes even if you had a whole day!

Nestboxes that open from the top down have to have the bottom board precisely located/recessed so that the side will clear the bottom when it swings down. When you teach someone to build their first nestbox it is devastating to them if the box does not "work or open" properly.

8 hammers and 8 adults can help 32 children working in pairs to easily turn
192 pieces of wood in just one hour into 32 nestboxes IF the nestboxes are simple to build! KK

Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas

Paul Kilduff
Trail at Oregon Ridge Park, Cockeysville, Baltimore County, MD

Nice answer! I see your points. I haven't had any trouble with rust or pulling out, although the screws do get loose and I just tighten them again. I like the idea of putting the pivot higher, though I think on the Springer Chalet the roof fouls it almost no matter what you do. Agree the hinges are expensive.

I don't like any design where the back of the roof is held in place by a cleat or a slot, since I find those boxes leak (in April or May here in MD that can be bad) and the roof tends to come off. With the hinged roof, it will eventually fall back down into place, and it is effectively waterproof, if it's sufficiently oversized.

Do agree it's hard to get a House Sparrow with top opener -- I put a clear plastic bag over the whole box and open the roof and let the bird fly into the bag.

I also agree that bluebird premature fledging may be more a matter of clumsiness on the monitor's (my) part than anything else, and that sight of sky may be more of an invitation than sight of ground. Also we may seem more like a predator coming in from the top.... However, with a rag in the hole and opening the top slowly and slipping open hand in over the hole as the roof comes up you can prevent most premies in any case. Daggone HOWR'll premature fledge in a heartbeat, though!

Thanks for the insight into reasons for using side-openers. Okay, I don't hate them anymore!

Paul in Baltimore

Paul, et al,
Keith, in his characteristically thorough manner, has said just about what I would say concerning the virtues of side-opening boxes. As I've said, I've never used anything else, and I've always found them satisfactory in every way.
Also, Keith's description of the dimensions he uses, especially of the side door itself and the placement of the hinge-nails, sound exactly like what I do. (My plans came from the Stokes' book; I think it's a pretty generic NABS-type box with a ¾" thick entrance-block.)
I use white pine lumber, rough-one-side, a full 7/8"
thick for extra strength and insulation. I put the rough side out except for the front board. To quote you, Paul, "I hate ¾" lumber for houses." It's fine for home interior trim carpentry, but for Bluebird houses, forget it.
I've been given a few made of ¾" stuff, and they just fall apart in no time.
Bruce Burdett, SW NH

CORRECTION:
My entrance blocks are also 7/8" thick, so the total 'tunnel' length is 1 3/4", if I added right.
(7/8" X 2 = 1 3/4", right

Paul Kilduff

trail at Oregon Ridge park, Cockeysville, Baltimore County, MD

Hi, Shawn, may I please put in my two cents ' worth in answer to your question...?

I use the NABS box plans from the _Bluebird Monitor 's guide_ on p 97.

I modify it by:

adding a starling guard (hole thickener) made from 2"x4" or 2"x3" wood;

adding 3/4 inch vent holes near the tops of the sides, which I plug with wine corks or insulation for fall through spring and remove in time for the dog days;

I don 't make the back extend any farther down than the sides and the front (what 's that about?) -- I put it together on a work table, with a piece of plywood in the middle to create the slight recess of the floor from the bottom of the box, so the length of the back is reduced accordingly;

I use all screw construction, with acknowledgment that if I were trying to make 32 boxes with eight adults x 4 children I would consider nails -- bless KK and Shawn for the wonderful work they do;

I fasten the bottom of the side that opens with a screw through the bottom of the sidepiece into the floor;

I use blue masonry screws to fasten the side (for clean out) and fasten the roof (for monitoring) -- I use the blue screws for ease of identification that *these* are the screws to loosen if you want to get into the box;

I use 1x12 lumber and cut it to 12" length for the roof, and fasten the roof to the back of the box with single hinge (I think I use a 2-1/2" hinge -- it 's a pretty sizeable hinge, with three holes -- there 's not much of a penalty for a big roof, and it 's good for shade and keeping water out);

I use exterior plywood to make a shade for the west side of the box, and I use the east side for the side opening -- the shade helps keep the box cool on hot sunny days and also shields the vent holes from rain, which tends to be blown from the NW around here;

I use a relatively inexpensive drill press I got from Home Depot and forstner bits gotten from a local woodworking shop to make the entrance hole (and vent holes);

I use a 1-9/16" hole rather than 1-1/2" -- I see no compelling reason to use the smaller hole -- the 1-9/16" forstner bit is available on line if nowhere else;

I use a relatively inexpensive electric mitre saw to make the cuts -- I wish I 'd gone to the next level and gotten the one that slides, for extra width of cutting;

While I 'm about it, I mount the boxes using 3/4" EMT conduit -- I usually cut it (hacksaw or cordless chop saw or radial saw with metal cutting blade) to 6 ' length, resulting in a lot of useless 4 ' lengths of EMT,but the 5 ' length doesn 't usually go into the ground far enough for stability -- this will stand up to a glancing blow from a lawn-mowing tractor, though not a direct hit. I use a pole pounder to put the pole in. I use a single quarter inch carriage bolt and nut to fasten the box to the pole, and use a deck screw through the bottom to stabilize it.

I was using telescoping poles for a while (from Fawzi 's website), but they 're a hassle for the volunteers and they don 't do a great job of keeping four footed predators out (we heard earlier about raccoons running up polished conduit, and we 've had mice in one of our elevated boxes). No more telescoping poles for me, except some boxes that are on a steeplechase course, where they will only let me mount them on a fence.

Otherwise I use the Kingston predator guard from p 115 of the BMG.

That 's what *I* do.... :o)

Paul

Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas
As usual Paul did a great job answering and describing great additions to the nestbox and pole mounting system. On page 111, 113 and 118 in the Bluebird Monitor's Guide are three slightly different styles of the nestbox I commonly use.

As Paul asks: What is the use of leaving the back board stick below (or
above) the rest of the nestbox. For most people the nestbox on page 112 works great and saves lumber.

The box with a back board that sticks above and below the nestbox is 16"
long it makes it a little easier to mount a nestbox at two locations to a mounting pole. THE MAIN REASON FOR DOING THE 16" BACK BOARD is SIMPLY what I learned about children over the past thirty years of helping them build nestboxes!!!!

Take the Tuttle style nestbox or Jack Finches box on page 112 and let a child build this nestbox and they will be SO PROUD of the nestbox that it will slide perfectly into their book cases in their room and the box will NEVER be placed outside for birds! Build a nestbox with a full 12"X12" roof with a 16" long back board and it WILL NOT fit into the average set of book cases or shelves in a Childs room and they will be forced to hang it up out side where birds can use it instead of having it sit at a weird angle taking up a LOT of space in their room:-))) This box cannot be set on any furniture, on any side and actually look "Good" sitting there.....

We actually let girls use a nailgun Saturday to build their nestboxes in less than 2 minutes a box. KK

The Texas Bluebird Society "features" the nestbox developed by Keith Kridler. We call it the "Texas Blues (TB) - series" because he preferred that we refer to the box without using his name. The plans are located on www.texasbluebirdsociety.org

Keith did a bang-up job doing two all-day informative and entertaining bluebird symposiums this past weekend. True to form, he made certain that the two children who sat all day on Saturday - and enjoyed it! - left with a nestbox that they built.

The annual Texas Bluebird Society "summer bluebird symposium" is the 3rd Saturday in August each year. It "travels around" Texas. The event pumps life into this NABS affiliate organization at a time when it's too hot to be outside (the Weather Service issued a "heat advisory" this weekend in Fort Worth, with temps of 100 degrees PLUS humidity), people are not thinking about putting up nestboxes, and members have some time to "put on" the event.

Pauline Tom
Mountain City (no mountains) TX

Melissa!

Welcome! You are my neighbor as I live in Powell. I am one of the Delaware County Coordinators for the Ohio Bluebird Society and would love to help you in any way I can regardless of what county you live in. Here is a link to what OBS says about nestbox construction/setup:
http://www.obsbluebirds.com/aboutbirds_box.htm

Here are the actual construction plans from North American Bluebird Society
(NABS) for the boxes that I am using very successfully on my trails:
http://nabluebirdsociety.org/e_wbox.htm
Peruse their website because they have some very good information here. I have a trail of 20 boxes at a local park, my neighbors and I have a few boxes on our street, and I also have a Tree Swallow (TRES) trail and Purple Martin (PUMA) rig on South Bass Island on Lake Erie.

....

Paula Ziebarth
Powell (Central) OHio

Paula, I haven't looked at this site for some time cause I make all my own boxes. Personally, I prefer top opening boxes, but do have a few old side opening. My side openers all open from the top to avoid losing nests, eggs, or chicks. Is there any good reason to the bottom opening?

Lynn

Lynn,

Box design is often a matter of preference. The boxes for my trail were donated by OBS and the side opening ones are their standard. I like them because it is easier to inspect the cross section of a nest with a side opening box that is hinged at the top. I can gently lift a nest with a putty knife and scrape blowfly larva out of the box when I find them. After a heavy rain, I can also inspect the nest easier this way for dampness. I can see the whole thing top to bottom. Seeing the entire nest cross section has its advantages in my opinion. I also like them because boxes can be mounted a little higher on the pole and still easily inspected by me.

When birds are close to fledging, the side opening box can be a little tricky with those bustling bodies in there. If I am doing good monitoring, I will not be opening the box close to fledging. If I am not certain of the age of chicks when I open a box, I carefully hold my hand up like a little wall by the nest as I open the box just in case. I have never had a chick fall out of a side opening box.

So you are right. It is strictly a matter of preference and the birds will likely not care either way. If you prefer top opening boxes, stick with those. I guess I actually like any box with blue eggs in it :)

Paula Z
Powell (Central) Ohio

Hi, Paula & Lynn:

I currently use both top and bottom opening boxes on my trail, but, personally, I think I prefer those that open from the top > down. I say this because 1) it is easier for me to get to wasps (i.e. wasps are a big problem in my neck of the woods) 2) it is easier for me to keep the chicks from jumping out as they get bigger and close to fledging and 3) if the box is ever occupied by a snake, I prefer to be able to see him BEFORE he actually sees me!

However, Paula brings up a very good point about the blowfly larvae (another big problem for me)... and I think I finally have that tackled as well with my latest round of boxes ... I have modified the Peterson box (my all-time favorite design) by slightly increasing the slope of the floor, dropping the hinge axis well below the outside of the floor (which creates a perfect habitat pocket for "protective" spiders) and sanding the lowest ends of the insides to allow for a slight movement upward to allow the blowfly larvae to fall out when slightly shifted.
Last season, with almost no disturbances to the nest ... this seemed to be helping quite a bit.

Just a few thoughts.

Take care,
David

I agree with Paula about side-opening boxes, and for all the reasons she states. (I've never used anything else.)
Side-openers expose the entire nest and its contents, top to bottom, so you can get a detailed idea of what's going on. If there are blow-flies, they can be easily extracted with a hive-tool or putty knife. If the nest is too high - too close to the hole - you can lower it just by extracting a little nest material. If there are corpses or other bad stuff, you can spot the problems and remove them.
With a side-opener, you can see a cross-section of the whole nesting operation at a single glance. If everything's 'normal,' you can open and close in seconds, with minimal disturbance. I've made inspections during which the female never left the nest.

Bruce Burdett, NH Bluebird Conspiracy,
Sunapee NH

From: bluebirdsnbirdfeeders"at"gmail.com [mailto:bluebirdsnbirdfeeders"at"gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 12:34 PM
Subject: Re: Side-openers

Hello to all,
I currently use and sell front opening boxes. I like them a lot for the same reasons that Paula mentioned earlier. I really like the side-view of the nest. I also have never had any problem with fledgelings flying out. One little question. Maybe sort of insignificant, But has anyone found a difference between using front opening and side opening boxes? Is one easier to use than another?

Thanks,

--
Bluebirds 'n Birdfeeders
Daniel Smoker

I owned one side opening box. (this is just my experience). It rained in it when I faced it northeast or east more than it does toward the south.

I like front openings much better. There are some that open from the top down and from the bottom up. The ones from the top down actually give you more viewing room, but need a little something underneath to guard the door from falling all the way back. My husband fixed that problem.

We make front openings for the kits we use for our workshops.

Evelyn

Dan and all,

I have mostly front opening boxes, just a couple of side opening ones. I see no advantage to one over the other, but I greatly prefer the doors to open from top down in comparison to bottom up. the ones opening from the top down are easier to see in without putting my head up under the door, and when I put temperature data loggers in, I have to hold the door up with my head to be able to use both hands. It is also easier for me to just peek in the nest with a top opening box. A bottom opener has to be raised almost all the way up to see in the nest.

Mary Roen, River Falls, WI

Dear Daniel and Friends,

All of our nest boxes are side opening pull up door style nest boxes and to date, I've never had a bird fall out. I always open all nest boxes with caution (partially when the birds are near fledging) to eliminate accidents. In fact, if you open doors slowly, the birds inside will shift to the back of a nest box so falls are not possible. Our nest box floor sizes are now 5" x 5" so there's more room to move around inside.

As far as the pull down over the pull up doors styles? Well, I like the pull down styles (front or side opening) as my very first nest box was a pull down side opener, but cleaning out a nest box with a pull down door is not as fast or as easy to do as a pull up door.

The reason, a the pull down door gets the filth transferred to it from the floor, so you end up scraping off 2 surfaces which adds more work to the cleaning. Where as the pull up style doors swing out of the way so clean outs are fast and easy. However, these points are minor to be sure.

The other side to a swing down door that is nice is that you can see the birds inside better as compared to the pull up door styles, but then again that depends on the style of the nest box too. Our Meadowood Bluebird nest boxes are based largely on the Gary Springer Chalet. This design allows you the option of either viewing birds from the open side door, or you can remove the roof entirely, so you can look right inside at the baby birds from above. Great way to take pictures too.

All in all it's a matter of taste, and as my friend Paula Z said "any box with blue eggs in it" is a good nest box.

Now back to work as I have x6 steel poles to drill out for mounting x6 Barn Owl nest boxes that we are installing (rain or shine) tomorrow in Sonoma, CA, plus x2 Meadowood Bluebird nest boxes too.

...

John Schuster
Cotati, CA

From: danhan7"at"sbcglobal.net [mailto:danhan7"at"sbcglobal.net]
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 10:50 PM
Subject: Re: Side-openers

Dan Hanan, 35 miles SE of Austin, TX

I think side opening and front opening nestboxes accomplish the same thing and is really a personal taste thing. I personally use drop down, front opening boxes and prefer them as I think they give me very good access in viewing the nest with babies and in cleaning and maintaining the box. To me, boxes that have upward, swinging doors are not as convenient to monitor as downward opening boxes.

Dan

I will ask my husband about how he hinged the door and let you know. It is a little more trouble to do and we have the workshop kits open from the bottom up as it is less time consuming and we do work on a time situation at these programs. I do like the bottom front opening for myself better than the side opening box I had. The side opening may not all be like the one I had, but we also have some side openings that a person built for a couple of LBBS trails and our trail manager did not like them as well as the front openings and has changed most of them.

I use the Ron Kingston Stovepipe predator guards on all of mine and most of the LBBS trails we do have them. Kenny has used the plastic cones on the smaller LBBS trails and has also made some metal cones. He said they run around $5.00 to make. The plastic store bought cones are around $20.00. The stovepipe guard runs around $6.00 or less depending on how much Lowe's or Home Depot charges for the stovepipe.

Have you ever seen the stovepipe guard? It is stated that it is considered the most effective guard, even more than the cone. However, so far, we have not had any problems using the cone. Occasionally, you will read about someone that had a snake to attach itself to the seam of the stovepipe guard and climb up, but I've never had it happen and I think my snakes are equally as long as Texas, FlA and MS snakes.

I had a severe snake problem several years ago when I had did not have an efficient guard on it. My husband concocted a flat piece of political board about 16 x 24 underneath the nestbox and it only gave the snake a better platform to get to the box. I convinced him we needed to listen to the experts and install the recommended guard. It has solved my problems.

I'll get back to you about the way he hinges the door as he has not awakened yet. :<))

Evelyn

Louisiana, especially the southern part looks like cottonmouth heaven. Do you and your monitors have to take any special precautions when walking your trails? Also, I read that they are expecting an even greater mosquito problem in the hurricane damaged areas and a corresponding spike in West Nile disease. Have mosquitoes and West Nile been an issue with the Bluebirds?
Thanks,
Rob Barron

From: Keith & Sandy Kridler [mailto:txbluebirder"at"sbcglobal.net]
Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 8:38 AM
Subject: Re: Side-openers

Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas
To me front or side opening are the same thing. It depends on which board is inset between two other boards if you "hinge" the opening board or panel on two pivot nails.

Up in the far north you see more Peterson nestboxes and they open from the top down and you often see these nestboxes left open during the winter since most of their bluebirds migrate south and this keeps mice and House Sparrows from using the nestboxes during the winter months. The problem I see with this is I have traveled through the north during the middle of summer and entire bluebird trails were all left open and no birds could nest in any of the boxes. I don't know if people died who normally monitored the trail or got sick or simply quit checking and failed to close the boxes for the nesting season. Maybe they were waiting to see bluebirds! If mice are using your boxes you probably need predator guards!

I open the side from the bottom up. Think about a raccoon that finds a nestbox. They smell eggs or nestlings through the entrance hole or through the top ventilation slots on my boxes. In the dark their super sensitive fingers reach in through the ventilation slots and they grasp and pull hard to rip the box apart. IF you open from the top down you need to use GOOD locking screws or nails to hold the door shut. It is less likely for a raccoon to smell the food through top entrance holes or ventilation slots and then figure out that the key to opening the nestbox is down below them especially if they are sitting on or hanging from the roof board.

Remember raccoons can open ice chests and garbage cans. They can rip through chicken wire. They learn to open spring loaded screen doors. Average weight of southern raccoons are 14>24 pounds. Nearly all muscle! Urban raccoons living in attics or under storage building and feeding on garbage or pet food often run to 60 pounds about half of this fat.

Got to creek beds or swamps and look to see how determined a raccoon is at digging up crawfish from a deep tunnel in hard wet clay! They will spend hours digging up crawfish every night and nestboxes offer a lot more food!

Check all of your nestboxes early to make sure that rotten roof boards are replaced securely and that boxes cannot be pulled off of mounting poles or that nails or wire is not weakened by rust.

One other thing I found is that people check my roadside nestboxes. They pull out a double headed nail, pivot up the side of the box, a bird explodes OUT of the box right in their face and in their fright they lose the latch pin. With my boxes they can lower down the side and the box is safely shut, not latched and locked but shut. When we used boxes that opened from the top down I often found the boxes with the side that had fallen open and the nest was abandoned. It just depends on your trail and future potential problems you might encounter. When we used top opening nestboxes held on with a back wedge and a single locking screw, people pulled off the roof and then just laid the roof back on top of the box. Wind or predators opened the boxes and we lost a percentage of nests each year to exposure.

I have spent forty years making mistakes and killing birds through ignorance and just bad nestbox building methods and mounting/location mistakes. If you start early enough in life or make more nestboxes you might make as many mistakes as I have:-)) KK

I’ve had raccoons open nest boxes by pulling out hinge and latch nails that were difficult for me to remove with my fingers so I’ve switched to finishing nails flush with the wood for the hinge and wood screws to latch the box closed. It takes a little longer to open the box but I carry a cordless screw driver. Despite the success of the Peterson box, they always struck me as too crowded inside and seem to force the bluebirds to nest higher and closer to the opening. The synthetic lumber roofs seem more slippery and harder for a raccoon to sit on and are strong enough to be screwed down with multiple screws, and obviously they won’t rot, crack or split.

I often wonder if raccoons associate human scent with food an follow our scent to nest boxes. Deer hunters often wear rubber boots to their stands because rubber picks up less scent.

Making mistakes is sometimes the best way to learn. I always remember the mistakes I’ve made more clearly than the things I did right, whether it was answering a test question incorrectly or building a bad nest box because I was determined not to make the same mistake twice.
Rob Barron-Woodstock, Georgia

Oh, MJ, I do envy you the Tuffed Titmouse and Brown-headed Nuthatch. I have the Titmouse, but they nest in the natural cavities around me, never in the boxes. I have never seen the Brown-headed Nuthatch here on my trail or around my house. The Titmouse comes to the gravel driveway in the summer to bathe with the rest of my conglomeration of birds.

The boxes that the guys were playing with the opening top down have hinges on the bottom of the door. My husband (God love his heart for all he does for me), puts some screws under the bottom of the floor for a stop for the top opening door. As you mentioned, this keeps the door from falling all the way down and would be in my way when I monitor. My husband, Clayton, thinks that it would put more wear on the top opening door to fall all the way down every time. He has a reason for putting hinges and I forgot. When he comes back in the house, I will ask him.

The biggest problem I had with the side opening, was mine did not seem to have as much room in it. I will measure it today, it is the only store bought one I own. The door was put on the side that placed it venerable to northwest and northerly winds and rains and it did get wet nearly everytime even with a wider roof. I turned it south and that seemed to help.

As with any of them, it is always a good idea to tap on the side of the box and I usually always stand to the side to open the door. I had the idea that I could drive up to them close enough in the truck to monitor them from sitting in the truck, but decided she might fly out and land in the truck with me, so I scratched that idea. If the weather is too cold for me to monitor, Clayton does it for me.

Evelyn

Paul Kilduff
trail at Oregon Ridge Park, Cockeysville, Baltimore County, MD

(Notice I am not including every message in the thread)

I haven't seen anyone mention top-openers. I guess this is a perennial topic, reviewed for the folks who haven't seen it before. If you're among that group, consider top-opening boxes.

When I build boxes (or, in the past, when I've converted them) I just use regular cabinet hinges, the kind with three screw holes in each half. I put one half of the hinge on the bottom rear of the roof (I use 12" lengths of 1" x 12") and the other half on the upper outside of the back. Easy. Cordless screwdriver or drill makes it easy to put the roof on. An "oversize" roof helps keep out the rain.

I lock it by drilling a hole through the roof into the top of the front of the box -- it takes a Phillips screwdriver to open the box.

I mount the box on EMT conduit, usually 3/4", driven into the ground with a pole pounder. I drive the conduit into the ground sufficiently deep that the top of the conduit is below the roof when the box is mounted -- this gives the roof room to open (I fasten the top of the box with a 1/4" carriage bolt and nut, and fasten the bottom with a wood screw). I baffle the predators with a stovepipe guard.

My boxes also open from the side, but only for cleaning -- it's not a big deal to put the box together in such a way that a side willl swing up when you remove a screw. I think it's easier to count the babies, and harder for them to fledge prematurely, if you open the box from the top. My sides hinge up, although it doesn't really matter since we open the sides only for cleaning. I'm not worried about blowfly larvae because I don't think they're fatal to the nestlings. I'm not worried about the nest being too high because my boxes have "2x4" starling guards deepening the entrance holes.

While I'm describing my boxes, they also have a sun/rain shade which faces roughly northwest -- I just use thin exterior plywood, and if it starts to buckle I throw it away and put another piece on. I use 3/4" holes along the upper sides for ventilation. I plug the holes with tapered wine corks (I use a grinder) or just insulation. I don't want too much ventilation, but when it gets in the 90's and the sun is beating down, as in July, I think a little airflow is necessary, even though I think it's rare that nestlings actually perish of heat -- in a woodpecker hole in a tree the sun wouldn't be able to heat the interior of the cavity the way it can with a nestbox. I ask our volunteers not to remove the corks until the really hot weather arrives.

Paul in Baltimore

Hi Paul. I LIKE the idea of multiple choice opening! Personally, although a top opening box is
desirable for photography, wasp control (easier to apply soap/Vaseline to interior of roof), and
preventing premature fledging (if you put your hand over the hole when opening), I don't care for it
because I'm height handicapped. I am just too darn short (about 5'2") to see in from the top. I
don't want to mount boxes lower because of improved predator access (jumping feral cats mainly. At
least they have a hard time sitting on a sloping Peterson roof.)

Also, although Terry Whitworth indicates that less than 10 blowfly larvae per chick probably does
not pose a real problem, I sometimes have far more than a hundred larvae in one nest (very gross) so
I do like to sweep them out before they have chowed. I am guessing that an infestation like that
makes chicks more vulnerable to threats like hypothermia, and I like to be able to give them the
best possible shot. With a side or front opener, sweeping out the blowfly at the bottom of the nest
involves very little disturbance. (For a disgusting photo of SOME of the blowfly larvae I found in
ONE nest in July 2004, see http://www.sialis.org/forumlinks.htm#blow )

Bet from CT

From: plkldf"at"comcast.net [mailto:plkldf"at"comcast.net]
Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 3:22 PM
Subject: Re: Side vs top opening nestbox

Having a hinged top doesn't mean you can't have a side panel that opens for cleaning. One has nothing to do with the other. If it's hinged, you also don't have to take the top off to monitor. You just undo whatever you're using to hold it down (I use blue masonry screws because the blue color makes it easy for the volunteer to know which screw to loosen) and tilt it back. I use another blue screw to hold the side closed -- when it's time to clean the box just loosen that screw and pull out the side and clean out the old nest.

Paul in Baltimore

I have a chalet-style nestbox that is both top and side opening. I use the top opening to check on the chicks once they have gotten active, but I use the side-opening to monitor at the beginning of the nesting cycle. Sometimes I have to lower the nest, or look under it for parasites, etc. and I like to check each individual chick shortly after they hatch. Also, it's the best way to clean out the nestbox after fledging and before the winter.

The only thing I dislike about this box is that the top is hinged, and rain can enter the nestbox on each side of the hinge, since it doesn't run the full length of the roof. I cover it with duct tape in the winter! Oh, also, I have my nestboxes mounted high because of all the cats in the area, so it is more difficult to look into the nestbox from the top, but that's just a problem for me because of the height of my poles.

Otherwise, I think having two ways to monitor is excellent.

Barbara in Cloverdale, CA

Paul Kilduff,
trail at Oregon Ridge Park, Cockeysville MD

Hi, Bet,

My wife is a little shorter than 5'2", and all the boxes are more or less adjusted to her height. Mary can look into all of them. When I'm installing one, I sort of visualize Mary, our shortest volunteer, looking in and that's how I decide how high to mount them. With stovepipe guards it's not a problem. We've not had a predator problem yet anyway. Mice have been a problem, but that was in an elevated box (Fawzi's telescoping design) -- I replaced the mount with a low-lying, stovepipe-baffled mount.

I'm not trying so much to change people's minds who have established patterns as I am interested in providing an idea for folks who are thinking of starting out.

I'm sure it's not a bad idea to remove blowfly larvae, and you can easily do that with the boxes I build because one side always opens for cleaning. The only reason I, personally, ever remove blowfly larvae is to put them in a mealworm feeder. Payback's a .... :o) Anyone see any problem with feeding BFL to bluebirds, while I'm on the subject?

Speaking of wasps, we've had zero luck with soap or Vaseline on our trail - or polyester batting, for that matter - now THAT was a mess! What has seemed to work, though, is peppermint oil. I got some at a health food store and put it in a little spray bottle -- this is some powerful stuff, and it seems to be semi-lethal to European Paper Wasps, which are invasive and PERvasive here, and it seems to keep them away. I am not absolutely convinced that it is harmless to nestlings, but so far it has not hurt any that we're aware of -- I can actually say the same thing about pyrethrin spray, but I feel better about the peppermint oil. The European Paper Wasps are not terribly aggressive (not nearly as aggressive as the Yellow Jackets they resemble) but they are very stubborn - they'll FIND a place to attach that little spike from which their nest depends. When it comes to dealing with EUPW, I'm glad I can open the top and see what I'm dealin! g with.

By the way, the tree tubes that are such a hazard for cavity-seeking male EABL are also an incredible EUPW incubator. Any tube at Oregon Ridge that's not fully covered by a "sock" will have a Eu Paper Wasp nest in it -- sometimes one tube will have successive generations of paper wasp nests in it.

Comments welcome, including about the peppermint oil.

I just went to the URL you suggested for the pic of the BFL, and found lots of good commentary on European Paper Wasps. Wow! Amazing job! Just amazing! Personally, I haven't found any material that will deter them from attaching a nest, although I confess I haven't tried everything you listed. If others try the peppermint oil and it seems to work for them, maybe that'll be something you can add to that section. I am curious about peppermint oil's toxicity. Also you mention "under Petersons." Yes, that is their favorite place to nest - crumpled up tin foil, eh?

Paul in Baltimore

One of our charter members, the late Leo Terzia established a trail at the Veteran's Home where he spent the last two years of his life. He was confined to one of those motorized wheel chairs. He had his son set up some of the boxes with top openings about 4 ft. high or a little better so he could look in there and see his Bluebirds. ( I am so glad he had this pleasure because he worked so hard to help the bluebirders and bluebirds) He took me out there and so proudly showed me his babies not long before he passed away.

However, out on the trail of 22 nestboxes several miles away on a trail he established, they are top opening and the monitors that have to take the top off to monitor and clean the box do not like it as well as the front or side opening. They are in the process of changing them.

It is just a matter of what each person considers fits their needs and is efficient for the birds too.

Evelyn
www.labayoubluebirdsociety.org

If you're going to be banding, side-openers (with the hinge at the top) have been the easiest for me.

I have been able to catch the female (& sometimes the male, especially with Tree Swallows) on the nest by holding one hand over the entry hole & sliding the other up thru the bottom of the open side. With front opening boxes, the birds are already primed to move in that direction & will go thru an open crack if they can't get thru the normal hole. With sides that are hinged at the bottom, i can't cover both the hole & the cracks as they get wider.

Recapturing the adults allows us to figure out how long our birds are living, if they come back to boxes near where they hatched or near where they were last year, & stuff like that. Even if you're not banding, i feel top-hinged doors are safer, for the same human & raccoon reasons Keith has already mentioned.

Torrey Wenger
Kalamazoo Nature Center
Kalamazoo, MI

Paul Kilduff
trail at Oregon Ridge Park, Cockeysville, Baltimore County, MD

Barbara said:
> I have a chalet-style nestbox that is both top and side opening. I use the top
opening to check on the chicks once they have gotten active, but I use the
side-opening to monitor at the beginning of the nesting cycle. ...

I have a few Springer Chalets left of the ones that I made -- I'm not fond of them but I still use a few. For the ones I still use, I've almost completely eliminated the vent slots under the roof on both sides -- designed for, I believe, Georgia, I think they're way too ventilated for Maryland's cold spring nights. I use caulk to attach a piece of foam board insulation, cut to size -- it plugs the slot nicely. I also hinged the roof, since I couldn't figure out how to look inside the box using the side opening. But I didn't hinge it in the middle, because of leakage, but rather I attached the hinge to the rear of the box, and the roof swings up and away. It's a pain but it works.

Melissa said:

> One more question about the Peterson style (and Fawzi's style) box.......in
all of the designs and plans I've seen, none of them have roof openings. Is
there a reason for that?

Hate to sound like a broken record here but I guess I'm the spokesperson for the hinged-roof contingent (is it a contingent of one?) so let me answer: I have all ten of the Petersons that I originally built and they have hinged roofs* -- it works really well with the Peterson-style because that piece of 2x4 under the roof guides the roof down into perfect position -- the Peterson-style box is a design that CRIES OUT for a hinged roof! With NABS-style, the hinges get a little loose and the whole thing gets a little floppy, and the lock-down screw can be hard to get in the hole, but with the Peterson it's like closing a safe: *clunk*! And of course we use the front opening for clean-out. What's not to like? It's really easy to install the hinge: just put the roof on the box, put the hinge where the bottom of the roof meets the back of the box, and fasten the hinge down with the little screws, using a cordless screwdriver or dri! ll. Use an oversize roof (I use 1x12 cut to suitable length -- I forget exactly how long but I cut them long enough that some of the roof can hang over the back and protect the joint and some of it can protect the opening from sun and rain. I usually put a trace of caulk on either side of the hinge when I first put the roof on, but if the roof hangs over the joint not much water is going to get in anyway.

All of this is made possible by mounting on 3/4" conduit (for Petersons 1" is actually better), driven into the ground with a pole pounder to a height that is below the opening roof. I use 3/32 bit to drill a pilot hole, then 1/4" bit to drill a hole through the conduit and the back of the box -- 1/4" carriage bolt and nut and the top is fastened -a nut driver makes that easy. I drill a similar hole in the conduit farther down, and use a deck screw to fasten the bottom - not too long or the point'll stick into the inside of the box -- the top is for strength, the bottom is for stability. Thank goodness for cordless drills!! :o)

Speaking of Petersons, I don't want to start anything but it makes no sense to use the oval hole if there's any chance at all that European Starlings will find the box - and if you're in North America there is a chance of that. All of my boxes have starling guards (just a piece of 2x4 with a hole drilled in it so EUST can't reach head in and pick up eggs or nestlings -- if I recall correctly it's not because they eat them, but because they're neatness freaks: "who left these baby birds lying around in this cavity? mm mm mm".)

While I'm at it I'll mention that I use 1-9/16" holes, using a cheap drill press and a Forstner bit bought online. The 1-9/16" hole won't admit anything that the 1-1/2" hole won't admit, so why not make it a little easier for Mom and Pop to get in and out of the hole?

Paul in Baltimore

PS: long-suffering Mary just asked me what I was doing and I said that I'm apparently the only one on the list who hinges their roofs and she said, "well, what DO they use?" What, indeed! :o)

* except for one that I built with a hollow back so I could reduce the weight and elevate it -- not worth it -- I don't use telescoping mounts for new installations any more because the low mount with stovepipe baffle works just fine, and the telescoping mounts are inevitably more time-consuming to monitor.

Melissa, I love my Peterson's (no starling problems YET), but if the box is not level and you open
the box too quickly, eggs and babies can come tumbling out (as I know from very unhappy personal
experience.)

I've found that bluebirds and tree swallows tend to build their nests parallel to the ground, even
if the box is tipped.

The issue is that Peterson's are top heavy and tend to lean forward if not properly mounted. Al
Drollett of http://www.eastern-bluebirds.com/ showed me several neat ways to stabilize the boxes
when mounted on electrical conduit. The first uses a clamp in the shape of a -u that goes on the
top back of the box. The second is to use two pieces of pressure treated wood, screwed on either
side of the pole, down at the bottom. Since we can't attach pictures here, I put some up at
http://www.sialis.org/petemount.htm so you can see what I'm talking about.

I've copied Al so if I've misrepresented how this works, hopefully he can clarify. You can see from
the picture that I used a U-shaped clamp to secure the bottom to the conduit. I'm not sure if I was
supposed to do that.

Al donated one of these boxes to NABS2006, so you'll be able to see it in real-life if you go.

Bet from CT

Additional info from AL:

Re: mounting. I would recomend using two "U" bolts on the bottom to firmly hold the box on the conduit and a clamp on the top to stabilize the the whole assembly. By running the conduit to the top and adding the top clamp adds to the strength to the mounting and should prevent shifting of the box on the conduit.

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