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Nestboxes (Names)In addition to Messages that have appeared in the Bluebird Mailing Lists on this topic, the following are on the Audubon Society of Omaha website:
From: "Gary Springer" springer"at"alltel.net After reading about bluebirds for many years, judging by the countless times reference is made to the "NABS nest box", including in my own writing, it occurred to me that any wooden nest box with a flat roof might properly be called a "NABS box". I believe there is such a wide spread over use of the description "NABS box" and that the designation encompasses so many different nest boxes that the term is almost meaningless. Certainly any published study using the term without precisely defining "NABS box" is weakened severely. For example: Is a nest box with a flat roof and a round hole a NABS box if the floor is only 5 inches below the center of the entrance hole? What about 4 inches? Three inches? Nine inches? What if the floor size on a flat roof nest box with an inch and a half entrance hole is 4" X 4". Is this a NABS nest box. What if the floor is reduced to 3.5" X 4.25" or increased to 7" X 7"? Are these all NABS boxes even though the floor space of the largest of these is more than three times that of the smaller one? Some well informed writers even let a nest box retain the NABS description when the box is equipped with a Peterson entrance hole. Is this really a "NABS box"? Is it a NABS box if the edges of the roof are flush with the sides of the box instead of the recommended inch and a half over hang? Is it a NABS box if the wood from which it is constructed only half an inch thick? What if the roof is two inches thick? Still a NABS box? What about a 7 inch deep nest box with a flat roof, an inch and a half entrance hole and quarter inch vent slots but no drainage holes. What about the same box with four ventilation holes of three eighths of an inch instead of the ventilation slot, no, make that six ventilation holes half inch in diameter? Are these all NABS boxes? What if the roof slopes towards the back of the box instead of toward the front of the nest box? Is this a NABS box. What about a nest box with a flat roof, half inch ventilation slots on both sides but no roof overhang on front, back or sides of the nest box? Is this a NABS nest box? What about wooden nest box with an entrance hole of inch and 7 sixteenths or inch and three eighths, or a larger hole of say two inches in diameter or one that was originally inch and a half but after a woodpecker modified it is now an inch and three quarters? Are these all NABS boxes? What about a wooden box with a flat tin roof and no ventilation, or, a wooden box with half inch wide ventilation slots and all other criteria as called for in the Bluebird Monitor's Guide? Of course I could go on and on and on because the variables are endless The point is that, given the many variables, how can anyone report with any scientific validity that NABS boxes performed one way or another without including in that study the definition for a "NABS box"? Each variable effects the performance of the box and the preference by the birds. The effects of adjusting many of these variables is tremendous. Are there any scientific studies out there that use the terminology "NABS box" without being just a tad more descriptive? I motion to reduce the field of nest boxes called NABS boxes to those that are built to the specifications of NABS. I also motion that anyone not knowing what those specification are to refrain from using the term "NABS box" in writing or reporting data about activity at a nest box because it seems such data is misleading at best. Of course, who am I to make such a motion? Gary Springer From: "Dan McCue" dmccue"at"usit.net Gary et al - GREAT post. It makes us think about how we refer to our boxes
and what makes up our descriptions. I, for one, am glad you took the time to
explain the differences that we all knew but didn't think over before we refered
to difference descriptions. Thanks again, Gary. Dan McCue in Camden, TN. 75
miles due west of Nashville on the Tennessee River in West TN. Member of NABS,
TN Audabon Society. President of Benton County Bluebird Society of TN, Inc.,1st
V.P Tennessee Bluebird Trails, Inc. ----- Original Message ----- Hi Jim, From: "Keith & Sandy Kridler" kridler"at"1starnet.com Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas Oblong hole:I am sure this topic coming up has "thrilled" those who have been on the list for a couple of years:-))) Dr. Kevin Berner tested the holes and did the NABS research on this topic and continues today. YES I have talked with him MANY times and he is a GREAT guy. BUT the problem I have is the tests have NEVER been apples to apples. The Peterson oval is approximately equal in size to a 1&7/8" round entrance hole and has usually been tested against a round 1&1/2" hole. This to me is not fair! Who furnished the "Peterson" oval holed boxes for the test? Minnesota. OK were the holes actually measured? NO. They came from those building ALL of the Peterson boxes. OK. When I did my tests of the 1&3/8"WX2&1/4"H oval holes for starling use in Texas I ordered the fronts from Dave Algren the main builder of Peterson boxes in Minnesota and they came in varying 3/16" in height and were up to 1&1/2" wide or VERY poor on quality control! They drill two 1&3/8" round holes and then "whack" out the center protrusion between holes with a wood chisel.I could not use those in a scientific test but were the boxes Kevin used held to high standards or were the holes similar to the ones I received? There was a HUGE difference between the 10 box fronts I received! Did you measure the 1&1/2" entrance holes? They were made with a 1&1/2" drill bit. OK I can use four different styles of drill bits and come up with 4 different hole sizes. How scientific is scientific depends entirely on someone's point of view. For the last oval holed Starling use test I recommended that the researcher working under Kevin Berner use either metal or UHMW (ultra-high-molecular-weight plastic that used for industrial or medical uses) for box fronts and have a machinist make the holes to exact dimensions. For my entrance holes for my starling test I used a vertical milling machine and machined the plywood to tolerances of .002" of an inch (human hair is .004.008) and some in Minnesota still called my tests "biased" and unscientific! I felt that only stable material that could not change with a rain or leave any type of splinter material should be used in a test like this. Exact bevels could be applied to both types of holes. UHMW is costly and wood ended up being used... One of the main reasons the 1&1/2" hole has been used as it keeps starlings from nesting and the 1&7/8" round admits them. The research has shown that the Oval hole does two but double standards tend to apply sometimes. NABS research: Very careful House Sparrow nesting preferences were conducted while I was on NABS board back in the 1980's I believe we funded the research for three years and a fellow tested nearly every style and variation of nestboxes for total house sparrow resistance. After three years he only had one style box that was totally "Sparrow proof" or that NO sparrows had built in. He wrote the paper for inclusion in Sialia and I and most of the board REFUSED to have it printed. WHY? The box was a 6"x6"x6" cavity which is OK but the entrance hole I believe was 2&1/2" round diameter (it might have been 2&1/4" or a little larger since it has been a few years) and I believe it was only 1" off of the floor! Basically he took a single compartment from a martin house and determined after three years that this was sparrow proof! Have ANY of you ever seen a sparrow build a nest in a martin house! What is research and what works in a single area may not be research to someone else or work for someone else. KK From: "Bruce Burdett" blueburd"at"srnet.com Gary, et al, Gary, when you say "flat roof," I immediately think "Tuttle," not NABS. I'm sorry if I have been too loose with the term "NABS house," but I'm at a loss to think of a better one. Would it be better to call it a "Stokes house?" It certainly is not a "Burdett house," because I didn't invent it; I just copied it. Am I right in thinking that the No. Am. Bluebird Soc. has been pretty
specific about what constitutes a NABS house? (Help me, Keith.) Bruce Burdett, SW NH Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 11:44:33 -0800 (PST) Hello Bruce B and all - Snip When I was in the nature products business our bluebird box was on the NABS approved list, Wild Birds Unlimited and others. My impression of a NABS box is anything that they have approved. A PVC box would even make the list... but that's another topic. Perhaps the term means little except that it is designed to provide at least the minimum requirements for bluebirds to nest in. The outside appearance could vary tremendously. As to the Cypress, I have worked with it. It is heavy and harder to work than western cedar, pine and some other woods. The lasting qualities of both western cedar and cypress depends of whether or not the trees are old growth or not. The old growth is supposed to last much longer. Bruce J From: "Keith & Sandy Kridler" kridler"at"1starnet.com Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant Texas Kevin has been trying to find a starling proof oblong hole that matches the
results of the "Peterson" oval but has failed to find one the bluebirds prefer
and the starlings can't enter yet. This entrance hole testing is only one of
many different studies Kevin has worked on over the years. There are so many
variables with this hobby that research can give us direction and then we need
to be looking for other ideas to improve our own results. From: "Keith & Sandy Kridler" kridler"at"1starnet.com Keith Kridler a cold 22*F this morning and pears, plums and apple trees are/were in bloom across Northeast Texas! I think we would need to make the distinction between NABS "approved" and a NABS nestbox. NABS approved: This can be any nestbox which is basically a good nestbox style. It does not have to pass rigorous field testing or weather experiments. I have seen many different styles of wood boxes approved that vary in floor space, height and ventilation. I have the Schwiegler (sp) a German nestbox made from sawdust and cement, an aluminum model from Nature House and I believe the plastic gourds from PMC are approved by NABS and also most of the PVC nestboxes. NABS nestbox: This I would probably limit to the original NABS style that was used in their plans for about 18 years and the main one Zeleny used for the last 30 years of his life or so. Also the newer model that is now being used with the newer sets of plans. I like this one better because it has more roof overhang and can be built with a single size of lumber like the 1X6". Both of these boxes have the slanting roof of about 10*. Tuttle box: (Dick Tuttle) never named this flat roof style but it was such a nice simple box to build and compact and the plans have been out for over 20 years that we actually named it for him because there are so many of these out there. Except for the Troyer, Peterson, slot & Chalet boxes most of the other wood boxes are simply a minor variation on these basic designs. It is almost impossible for most people to know the difference between these boxes when they are just getting started and confusion will reign forever more in the nestbox naming game! KK From: "Bruce Burdett" blueburd"at"srnet.com I lied when I said that my roofs have no overhang. Like the plans I used on p. 30-31 of Stokes, my houses have an overhang in front. It's usually about 3 inches, and extends well beyond the wooden entrance block. Bruce Burdett P.S.: If the name "NABS box" is not satisfactory or accurate, what name is preferable? The editors of the "Bluebird Monitor's Guide" use the term "NABS box" both in the plans and the text. (p. 97) The important thing is that we all understand each other. From: "Jim McLochlin" bluebirdbox"at"cox.net Your question of "What is a NABS box?" deserves some recognition. I would even have to go so far to say what is a "Peterson", or a "Gilbertson" and yes even a "Chalet"? These box names all real and defined a box by their name at some point have different variations from the originals. Which one is being used on any research project is any ones guess unless fully defined. Surprisingly I agree with you on this. In our past phone and email conversations you may recall that I like to refer to nestboxes as a style, when speaking in general terms, rather than as "X" nestbox (i.e., Peterson style Gilbertson style rather than a Peterson or Gilbertson). Doing so would allow the non-research discussions of nestboxes to continue to explain what type of boxes we have without going out and measuring every aspect of the box to tell the world that we have a eggs in our nestbox. I will readily admit I don't always follow my own ideals in this naming convention. The way I would like to see research discussions state the boxes used is either by designer/manufacturer and style. In other words if Alhgren construction supplies Peterson style boxes for a study then these boxes could be called "Alhgren Construction Peterson boxes" or "Alhgren Construction Peterson style boxes", or if PVC boxes made by Steve Gilbertson were used in research then the boxes could be referred to as simply "Gilbertson boxes". I think this needs to apply to boxes made by any designer/manufacturer as I have even seen "Chalet" boxes not built by Real Bird Homes. Obviously doing this in research has some merit, doing so in for general purpose bluebird discussions becomes less important. So if we are going to ask (and I think we should) researchers to define the boxes they use, then this should apply to all box styles. NABS style boxes have the most variations because that "standard" has been around the longest. Your second email follows along similar lines questioning the validity and conclusions of the research reports posted to my site. These articles are directly taken from the source quoted at the bottom of the article. To assure brevity in the respective publication I am fairly certain that the article was paraphrased/summarized. You would need to contact the original publication to find out if that is true and if a more complete report is available. I wouldn't even consider myself as an individual questioning the integrity, passion, or even analytical process of any one of these researchers. That is not to say that the conclusions they came to were correct, that they would be the same conclusions I would draw, or that they allowed for every variation in their research that should have been allowed. In Keith's Message regarding the variations in Alhgren Construction Peterson style boxes, I would say that if hole variation is any where near as severe as described than that these boxes obviously are not suited for research unless filtered so that only boxes within an acceptable tolerance were used. In all other respects I have found Alhgren Construction Peterson style boxes to be of superior quality and manufacture. Actually these variations in nestbox construction are probably fairly common (another research topic) and should not exclude a box manufacturer from either research boxes or boxes used for general bluebird use. I guess I would be concerned if holes in boxes I purchased for general trail use varied by more than a one eighth of an inch from the standard (one and half inch), but if they were off a sixteenth that would be of no concern to me. In the fairness category Keith states that it is not fair to compare a Peterson Oval to a standard hole. It seems to me that was the exact point of the research. In other words is an oblong narrower entrance (the Peterson) preferable to a round hole of standard size. Research I believe has proven this to be true. Was the research done as required? Were acceptable standards used? I don't know the answer to those questions. But, I don't believe we can hold ourselves in judgment of these criteria after the fact. Almost all research misses a control, a standard, or a variation that needs to be tested. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying start making Peterson holes and nothing else. I think the Peterson oval has some advantages but not to the point of exclusion of other entrance variations. The Peterson oval is too difficult, in my opinion to be made by the average box builder. It seems, from Keith's statement, that Alhgren Construction has some difficulty making Peterson oval research quality entrances so what chance does "Joe box builder" have? When I used to build boxes, I built NABS style front opening boxes with round one and half inch entrances. They were easy and inexpensive to build. They fledged many bluebirds. Were they good boxes? They weren't good boxes by my standards and they certainly would not be suitable for any research. I also would be unwilling to sell them. -----Original Message----- From: "Gary Springer" springer"at"alltel.net ... Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 17:31:37 -0700 Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. A few days ago, I uploaded photos of a dead western bluebird against various
floor sizes: http://home.earthlink.net/~lviolett/floorsize.html Before this project, I hadn't noticed that most boxes are in the same basic
size range but called something else simply because the round hole was changed
to an oval or something along those lines. This results in unnecesary confusion
to the hobbyist. For example, you will see the Tuttle box listed next to the 5x5
floor photo but the "Jack Finch" box is not listed because it is really the
Tuttle box (but with construction options). After sorting through these box names, I would imagine the time is not too far off when we'll be identifying boxes by their size and elements rather than surnames. For example, there are three NABS boxes (original NABS, Newer NABS, and a NABS for mountain bluebirders) and it could be so much easier: 4 x 4 (NABS) 4 x 5.5 (NABS) 5 x 5 (NABS) Or, why not set up a logical sequence like what they do on fertiler bags.
Nestbox numbers could have a sequence such as: floor width * floor depth * hole
drop * hole type (Rround) * material An Original NABS box would be: The Hill Lake Box with its 11" hole drop would be: Bob Wilson's spacious box of PVC fencig would be: Construction add-ons or options would not create a new "nestbox" name, it would simply be listed under add-ons/options. From: Snwwitelady"at"aol.com Susan Bulger, Fullerton, CA Linda, |
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