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Nestbox Mounting (Part 1)In addition to Messages that have appeared in the Bluebird Mailing Lists on this topic, the following are on the Audubon Society of Omaha website:
Subj: Giving it one more try? Date: 12/31/99 7:36:43 PM Central Standard Time From: OCMossBack"at"aol.com Friends I have had a trail in place for four years now. I set it up with the help of an experienced BB monitor and have done my own research also. The 2nd & 3rd year I watched as a male BB checked out one of the nest boxes (different box each year) as his mate looked on. They did not nest even though I added another box close by to reduce compunction from VGSW & TRSW. Last season I paired all the boxes back to back (the boxes are about 1/2 mile apart more or less) , but this didn't bring any BB to nest. The only trouble I have is with the Swallows using a box at each site. No predator problems. My Questions are (1) do you think pairing but 15' instead of back to back would make a difference? (2) adding more nestbox sites between the ones already up? (3) Look for another area to set up a trail? I thank you in advance for your help. May 2000 be a productive nesting for all. Sam Pointer Oregon City, Oregon Subj: Back-to-back? Subj: Back-to-back (cont.) Subj: Re: Giving it one more try? Subj: Re: Giving it one more try? Date: 1/2/00 4:32:18 PM Central Standard Time From: lviolett"at"earthlink.net (Linda Violett) Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. Sam, sometimes it's something as simple as moving the box just a few few away from traffic or facing the entrance away from the wind. Spend 20 minutes at each of your sites and jot down what you see: * Entrance is facing which direction? * Wind in relation to entrance? * Are the boxes weather tight? * Are they ventilated? * What type of predators/competitors in the area? * Are there successful bluebird trails nearby? (If so, the differences?) * Water availability * Local vegetation * Noise and traffic level * Nestbox type, height * Are they protected from predators? ... Subj: Re: Fw:
Giving it one more try? Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 11:56:40 -0800 (PST) From: Koby Prater Subject: Fence post mounting? Hello fellow Bluebirders, I am getting ready to put up my second box for my first trail, the first one was on a tree. I was wondering how I would go about putting a box on a metal fence post. Would I attatch a 2 by 4 to the post with nuts and bolts and then screw the house into the 2 by 4? Saw lots of terrotorial bluebirds being territorial on my property. What a good sign. Thanks in advance, KOBY Prater Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 14:57:49 -0600 Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 13:54:16 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 17:58:20 -0500 Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 18:39:49 -0500 Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 19:19:32 EST Koby, were you successful with your first box?
When did you put it out? Generally, Bluebirds will avoid boxes on trees. Another
negative arises from the easy accessibility to the box from any number of
predators. Tree mounted nestboxes are not really a wise choice. Single
posts/poles out in an open area are much more desirable, for several reasons.
Where are you located? Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 23:28:57 EST Hi Koby, You've probably had lots of responses as to how to put a box on a metal fence post. . Here's a neat way to attach a box to a metal pipe: 1) Assumption: the pipe is threaded on both ends. 2) Go to Home Depot etc. and buy a metal flange. You screw one end of the flange onto the pipe, attach the other end, which is like a flat metal plate with 4 holes, to the bottom of the box with screws. Of course make sure that the threading of the flange fits the threading on the pipe. 3) You could also use a flange for the bottom of the pipe, attaching the metal plate to a board for stability when you dig a hole and stick it in. ...Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 08:44:47 -0600 Merlin Wright at Brownville Nebraska Or, if you don't like to purchase things, You can save money by cutting a piece of 2x4 or 2x6, as long as the box is wide, bore a pipe sized hole almost all the way through and fasten it to the bottom of the house. Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 15:34:42 EST I need some suggestions on the best way to mount BB nest boxes. I save a posting from someone who told how to use a metal fence post. But I thought there were other postings on other ways and I think I may have accidentally deleted them. I have railroad ties I could put them on but I was thinking some other post would be better. I have tons of field fencing posts but I don't think that they are tall enough. My husband has tons of aluminum circles that we can put on the pole, but predators are not much of a problem here due to the dogs. Thanks for any suggestions. Marla Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 02:23:08 -0500 I get old used conduit and awning pipe (I hear old garage door pipes are also OK) 1" OD (outer diameter) cut into 7-foot lengths with a 1/4-inch hole drilled through the pipe or conduit 1" from the top, drive them in the ground 18" deep. I put a hole clamp on the pipe just an inch below where the nestbox will reach, drop a 2-foot length of 4-inch ID (inner diameter) thin-wall PVC to which I have attached (with a small screw) a cap drilled with a 1 1/4" hole, then attach the nestbox with a 1/4" x 3 1/2" bolt with locking washer at the top of the nestbox, and a pipeclamp at the bottom. I carry all my tools, including my trusty power screwdriver, and a hex driver to fit the bolts, in a small bucket. Hope this helps. Randy Jones Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 08:26:56 -0600 ... Still erecting boxes. I use 1" outside diameter pipes about 7' long. Drive them into the ground with a post driver made from a 4" pipe with some kind of an axle welded on the end for weight and a solid iron piece to hit on top of the post. Anyway, my problem has been to find a simple way to attach the nestbox to the pipe. Drilling two 3/8" holes requires a very tough bit and a drill press. Well, I can come up with a drill press but about 14 holes and the drill bit won't cut warm butter! I was drilling two holes in each pipe then my nephew came along and asked why I was drilling two holes. He suggested I drill one hole and use stovepipe strapping to hold the nestbox straight. So, now I am drilling one hole in the pipe and one hole in the nestbox, bolting the two together and then using a strip of the strapping lower on the box to form the second attachment. Dah, why didn't I think of this???? Too close to the problem, I guess. Hope all of you are beginning to see lots of bluebirds flitting aroung. Up here in the windy north of Nebraska, it will be a bit before they start nesting. All for now. Carolyn Hall, Bassett, NE, the Sandhills Bluebird Lady Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 12:11:40 -0500 I follow your nephew's line, but before I put the house up, I attach a hose clamp which exactly fits a 1" outer diameter pipe at a point just below where the bottom of the nestbox will be, and drop over the top of the metal pipe a 2' length of PVC (4" diameter) to which I have attached a cap. The cap has a 1 1/4" hold bored through the middle of it with a hole cutter. One small screw holds the cap to the length of PVC. It rests right on the hose clamp, but loosely, so that when a raccoon or other predator tries to take hold, it wobbles. Then after the predator guard is on, I put up the house. But maybe you don't need to worry about predators where you are. Randy Jones Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 15:44:31 -0600 Randy: I am doing almost the same with my newer houses in areas where I expect predation from coons. I am using a steel fence post. Around here, the post 8' long, costs $3.20. Bill Darnell, Savannah, TN Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 21:31:59 -0800 I mounted my bluebird box 2 weeks ago. I have checked it about every other day and see nothing inside. It is mounted to the top of a fence post. The head of the mounting bolt sticks up about 1/4 inch. Will this be a problem? Should I re-mount the box? Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 22:55:18 -0500 Hello Nicholas! I doubt seriously that 1/4" bolt showing inside the box would cause a problem. I think you WILL have a problem if it is mounted on a wooden fence post. Am I correct in assuming it is a wooden post? Please clarify and I will try to assist you in getting a bluebird or other cavity-nester interested. Also, please let us know where you are located. Betty Nichols, Middletown, MD ... Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 10:54:55 -0500 Hi, We use 3/4 inch pipe to mount our boxes. We've used grease on occasions but would it be necessary with such a small diameter? Can raccoons climb the size pipe that we're using? Patty in WV Paul wrote: I use 3' sections of 4" PVC pipe on all 200 of my boxes, and I get coons
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 07:35:56 -0600 Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas Boxes should be placed where you can open and clean them regularly (monitor). Squirrels and woodpeckers will consider a box 30' up a tree trunk "their" box. They will probably enlarge the hole making it a suitable nestbox for European Starlings. In the south the black rat snake will regularly climb pine trees and feast on the rare Red Cockaded woodpecker which normally nest about 45' off the ground in living pines with red heart disease. In a test in Arkansas using a mesh snake trap similar to that used by Harry Krueger rat snakes were caught in 8 out of 12 traps protecting these woodpeckers and some traps were located above 30' off the ground. By using a telescoping pole similar to the ones used by Gary Springer boxes can be located about 10' off the ground and easily lowered for weekly or daily monitoring without disturbing the occupants of the boxes. Over the years many good bluebirders have taken nasty spills while climbing ladders, or standing on buckets or chairs and a trip to the emergency room is very costly. The head person of the bluebird society on the island of Bermuda was paralyzed from a fall while checking on another species of bird nesting in a cliff. Extreme care must be used while checking boxes along highways! This nestbox monitoring can be a wonderful experience but NEVER reach into a box you cannot see into! Though rare but not uncommon stinging scorpions, black widow spiders, brown recluse spiders, wasps/bees and even copperhead snakes can enter some nestboxes, especially if mounted on rough barked trees! If you are hyper sensitive to insect bites carry the antidote! Out for a long hike what about water and food bars? Does someone know where you are heading? If by car check your spare tire, fuel gauge and cooling system since the car may idle for long periods while a problem is resolved. If the rains have soaked the road edges will you get stuck if you pull off the road? Do you have a cell phone that is fully charged? Yes you can carry a lot of unneeded "stuff" every time but I organize all repair parts and traps etc. and common items in a large tackle box so I just through the box in the trunk and am ready to go. Please everyone make this a safe monitoring season and look both ways before crossing the road or stepping onto a trail! A downhill biker is as deadly as a car! KK Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 16:44:59 -0600 Patty, We've had raccoons climb waxed 1/2" conduit. Waxed or greased small-diameter poles will stop most racoons, but not all--especially the young athletic ones. Dan Sparks Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 13:16:03 -0400 Hello all. The four babies in one nestbox in the backyard fledged. It is raining and 67*F. The rain is actually a blessing at this time since all the larger birds are away. This gives the babies a chance to safely get used to the wide view of the world after being in the confines of their box. This is one of the pleasures of having a nestbox in your backyard... observe the babies for quite some time to come. For those interested in making a telescoping pole (costs about $5) please write to me privately so I can send you plans and what to buy and how to put it together. It will go from 5' to 8' with ease. Wishing you all happy times, Fawzi from MD
To: the Constituency What you do to the pole, of course, is another matter altogether, and there
are many options. Everyone seems to agree that a slick pole of some kind, like
PVC or steel pipe, is preferable to wood, and there's agreement, too, that the
contraption should be wobbly, - not fixed. Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 12:59:41 -0700 (PDT) Hello all, Koby Prater ===== Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 22:01:11 -0500 Simplest and cheapest way is to use the 7 foot metal barbed wire fence posts
that farmers use for pastures. Use solid copper wire to attach the box to the post so that it opens eye high for you. I also have good luck with boxes on
the smooth wooden yard light poles and on the same type of poles that are used
to brace utility poles. (I do not put them on the primary utility poles as the
service men have to climb them at times, although this is permitted in some areas). Also as you have noted in my posts I have been having good luck
hanging boxes on tree limbs with 36" metal rods. Bluebird Bob, Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 06:12:13 -0400 I use 7-foot lengths of 1-inch (outer diameter=O.D.) steel pipe. One 1/4-inch hole is drilled through the pipe at one end. The pipe is hammered 18" into the ground, then a radiator clamp is attached around the pipe and a predator guard made of PVC (4" OD, 2 feet long) drain pipe of the lightest weight, with an attached cap (one screw), a hole drilled through the top of the cap just larger than the steel pipe. This is dropped over the pipe so that it rests loosely on the radiator clamp. Then the nestbocx is attached using a 2 1/2" bolt through the nestbox and the steel pipe (at the top) and a pipe clamp at the bottom. Randy Jones Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 08:18:36 -0700 Koby: I use a seven foot triangle steel fence post and pound it about 1 1/2 feet into the ground. I slide a two inch diameter, five foot section of PVC over the post. I use two U bolts to bolt an 18 inch section of 2x4 to the top of the post. The box is bolted from the back to the 2x4 with two bolts & nuts. Nicholas Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 11:23:51 -0400 Koby: We have a Stokes Bluebird House mounted with a metal flange on the bottom of the box and screwed into a 3/4" steel pipe that was put into the ground so that the house is about 5' 5" tall. We also have a "no-name" brand bluebird house mounted with a metal flange on the back of the house with a metal elbow piece screwed into 1/2" steel pipe and put in the ground so that the house is about 5' tall. Hope this is enough information! Barb DeLong Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 13:36:45 -0400 Koby, et al, In answer to your question, I use 3/4" (or 1") diam. round galvanized pipe. Somone GAVE me a liftetime's supply last year, and I'm still cutting it up into 7' lengths. All my houses (NABS-type) are attached to the pipes with either 1 or 2 steel bolts (1/4" or 3/8"), washers, and nuts. I drill the holes in the pipe with my drill-press, though I suppose it could be done with an electric hand-drill. If I only use 1 bolt at the top end of the backboard, (because of laziness) I fasten the lower end of the backboard with a galvanized pipe-strap and two screws. Using a crow-bar to make the hole in the ground, I can set up a pole with house attached in about two minutes (average), depending on the type of soil. (Rocks? No rocks?) The pipe is about the same diam. as the crow-bar, so it fits snugly in the hole. If, with time, the pole gets wobbly or out of plumb, I true it up by driving long wedges cut from scrap TREATED lumber straight down between the pipe and the soil. The treated wedges last forever, and usually one single wedge does the job. These pipes are handy because you can change the direction the house faces by simply rotating the pipe in the hole. I am 6' 6" tall, so the 7'-long pipes are a good length for me. Round pipes are also good because they are relatively hard for predators to climb, and they are easy to grease. I guess I am lucky here in NH because I have relatively few problems with
vandalism, raccoons (sp?), snakes, cats, House Sparrows/Starlings, etc. The
'coons were decimated by the rabies epidemic a few years ago. I have the
occasional blow-fly infestation, but it's easy to keep ahead of them. We ell Koby, et al, that was long.
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 08:45:43 -0400 Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 08:36:37 -0500 Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 11:35:14 -0600 I mount the box onto the electric conduit with 2 plumber U-clamps. I do this
before I put the conduit over the rebar. Since I don't have a terribly huge
trail, I usually don't "attach" the conduit to the rebar. The box will turn away
from the heavy prevailing winds in most cases. There are advatages to that in
terms of keeping the wind/driving rain out of the entrance hole. If I push the
conduit into the ground a few inches, then it usually won't turn. And in the
event that the box turns with the heavy winds, why I simply turn the box to the
direction I want on my next monitoring visit. This also allows me to turn the
box in a direction of the trees during the fledging time if the box is faced
southeast to start with (the direction I try to face my boxes towards). Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 15:30:10 -0600 Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 01:01:16 GMT Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 21:23:14 -0400 Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 21:29:44 -0500 Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 21:01:17 -0600 Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 09:22:20 -0500
Linda from IND. Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 16:46:31 -0700
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 22:20:56 -0600 From: Haleya Priest Subject: Re: BB Box Height Haleya Priest Amherst MA Yes. However, since I am 5' 6", I mount my box about 4-5" higher than the conduit, (so that the top of the conduit is half way up the box) that way it gives me a few extra inches. Perfect for my height. AND BTW: for those needing to use higher mounting than this for either personal height reasons OR predator control: My friend John Bowe, who is about 6' 3" keeps the conduit at it's standard 10' height but just mounts the box at his height on the pole, thereby leaving that 3+' for the EABL to perch on! PS about this method of using METAL conduit poles. In terms of poles, this gives the best predator protection over plastic or the T bars, in that very little except those 9' snakes down south and those few smart raccoons that can climb even these poles) can get up these poles. NOT to say one shouldn't use a predator guard in addition, but these poles are basically the most unclimbable since the T bar has little toe holds built in and the plastic PVC pole can get scratched and then become a toe hold for some critters. However, it is great that there are so many methods of mounting and of course as KK says, everyone lives in a micro- environment and so some folks have virtually no predators so can use the T-bar or the plastic PVC with no problem. But I believe NABS is a real go getter for the metal conduit/rebar method because it is such a basic first step in climbing predator protection. ... Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 22:27:54 -0600 From: "Robert Wilson" bluebirdbob1"at"home.com Subject: Re: conduit -rebar box height The main reason for the 5' height is so we can monitor the boxes. Bluebirds will nest in boxes as high as 20'. Bob Wilson Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 09:34:31 -0400 Hi Merlin and everyone, We mounted our bluebird houses on 4x4 post which after we dug the hole, they were about 4 1/2 high, then the bluebird house sat on top of that. We were going to make them higher (actually hubby would have loved not to have to dig such a deep hole...) but I wanted them low enough so I could lift the top and see in without using a ladder. I know, this is rookie thinking..... Then around each post about 1 foot under the house itself we put a round, cone-shaped predator guard. I thought if a raccoon, possum or snake tried to climb the pole, having to swing out to get around the predator guard would stop them. I know, more rookie thinking..... I saw my first raccon face to face this summer and was surprised that they were so much bigger than I thought. I did place the house more than 8' from the nearest tree and that seemed to work to keep squirrels from being a problem. I don't know how I mananged to evade predation for 4 years - just lucky I guess. So, suggestions on here I thought I could implement was to raise the houses and make the predator guard more than 5' off the ground and use PVC somehow around the post or replace them with PVC piping of some kind. I do not have a problem with sparrows. I must say that while I have seen my bluebirds chase other birds, such as a nuthatch or chickadee, when it landed on one of the houses, they don't seem to be a very impressive fighter. I hear so much about sparrows taking over nest, etc. and they are a smaller bird. Sometimes I wish the bluebirds were more agressive, but then maybe one of the things we like about them, besides their obvious beauty and singing ability is their gentler/kinder nature. Any opinions on this? Joyce Sobey From: Joyce Sobey [mailto:jsobey"at"erols.com] Sent: Friday, September 29, 2000 8:29 AM Subject: What I learned... Hi everyone, This year I learned about predation. For 4 years my lone pair (I assume) produced three sets of babies, each with 5 successful fledglings and I didn't realize what a "perfect" world I lived in. This past year, I had eggs disappear, nests abandoned and far fewer fledglings. Although I was glad I didn't see any of the babies dead... So, while I thought I had my nest boxes protected, I learned I need to do more to outsmart predators. I received lots of good information here and greatly appreciate the advice given. Here's to next year being more successful. Joyce. Sobey Powhatan, VA Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 07:54:14 -0600 What I have learned part two. I have learned that people on the list go to a great deal of trouble mounting boxes. The easiest by far is to use telescoping Electrical Metal Tubing pipe with a rebar as an anchor. They can be put up in minutes, have a better chance of retarding predators, and can be placed at any height or moved up and down for monitoring. Even if you still want to mount boxes on fence post why not still use EMT pipe for a predator guard? I have changed most of my post mounted boxes (except the PVC Boxes) by attaching the flatten EMT with bolts and then screwing the tubing into the post. If it is a "T" post I use a "U" bolt 3/16" x 3" x 3" to attach the EMT to the post. Some times I use and extra band of wire at the bottom if necessary. These are just the way I mount all boxes now except when I hang them in trees. I would like to as you to just try it once and see how easy it really is. Bob Wilson From: "Joyce Sobey" jsobey"at"erols.com Hi Merlin and everyone, From: Joyce Sobey [mailto:jsobey"at"erols.com] Sent: Friday, September 29, 2000 8:29 AM Subject: What I learned... Hi everyone, This year I learned about predation. For 4 years my lone pair (I assume) produced three sets of babies, each with 5 successful fledglings and I didn't realize what a "perfect" world I lived in. This past year, I had eggs disappear, nests abandoned and far fewer fledglings. Although I was glad I didn't see any of the babies dead... So, while I thought I had my nest boxes protected, I learned I need to do more to outsmart predators. I received lots of good information here and greatly appreciate the advice given. Here's to next year being more successful. Joyce. Sobey Powhatan, VA
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 10:36:30 -0500 To: Joyce, Rhonda, Tom, et al, Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 11:36:47 -0500 Hi Rhonda and all. In my opinion PVC is not hard enough and the critters have
sharp claws. They can also grab it being only 4" wide. They will Fawzi From: "Rwatts" rwatts"at"mymailstation.com Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 7:53 PM Subject: Re:4x4s In my humble opinion, 4 x 4s are not a suitable pole for Bluebird houses.
They are too easy to climb for cats, coons, etc. Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 13:51:53 EST Rhonda and All, The 4x4 PVC could make good looking pedestals for various feeders. However, squirrels may be able to gnaw on it along the edges. I guess I'll stay with the 4" round, white, PVC sewer pipe I use for feeder pedestals. I like em.... probably because, for little expense, sewer pipe can be transformed into a piece of art that absolutely prevents squirrels from getting onto a feeder. However, in my area I would use, as Fawzi writes, the Kingston stove pipe predator guard for nestbox protection. As I have been informed, you don't have to limit yourself to 8 inch pipe. Seven inch pipe can be wrapped around and attached to an inverted 1 gallon paint can. Put a hole in the bottom of the can and put on the mounting pole using a few turns off bicycle tubing wrapped around the pole which is held in place by a hose clamp. Tom in NW Florida Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 17:49:37 -0500 To: The Constituency, Sorry again. I should say what I mean to say. I would give myself a D- for
unclear writing. My wife would give me an E or an F. My Bluebird shtick at the
Lions went well. And I was excused before the business meeting. Bruce Burdett, NH Bluebird Conspiracy, Sunapee NH Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 22:02:39 -0800 (PST) Hi Rhonda and all. In my opinion PVC is not ... To add to what Fawzi said--remember, raccoons in all practicality have 4 hands. ===== Dan Sparks Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 06:40:47 -0600 How are nest boxes safe-guarded on land where cattle graze? Boxes are knocked from their mounting and 1/2" conduit over 1/2" rebar is snapped in two. This also happened with less desirable 4" x 4" mountings. There are no large trees in order to try the boxes that hang from limbs. Is it necessary to have no boxes in these areas? ...Thanks! Pauline Tom Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 12:30:35 -0600 All this talk about mounting nesting boxes reminds me that I need to share my horse proof box. I have had a problem with horses destroying boxes by rubbing against them. I now mount them offset from the "T" post by putting two 90* bends in EMT pipe. I mount this on a "T" post with the first bend at about five feet on the "T" post and away from the fence about 16" I make another 90* bend upwards and mount the box with bolts at eye level. So far it seem to be working just fine. I Bob Wilson Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 08:20:24 -0700 (PDT) Hello all, I know I haven't posted in a long while. I am just letting you know that I am
still here. I haven't been a very good trail manager this year. I have only made
it to check the houses once all year. I find this hard to do right now because I
am working 8-10 hour days and I can't drive. I will be 16 in January, so next
year I am gonna be able to check the houses weekly, and I am going to expand my
trail, and update each house and make sure each house has predator Koby Prater Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 19:54:04 EDT Hi Gary, In the next month I am planning on installing my third nestbox in my yard. I presently have two nestboxes mounted 6 and 1/2 feet up on EMT electrical conduit poles and also grease my poles with Castrol petroleum oil. These boxes are presently paired 15' apart. I plan on moving one of the boxes much further away as this pairing did not seem to work for me; I did not have any tree swallows nest this year in the paired box. My one concern with telescopic poles in my yard is that it can get very windy here. Do your boxes sway alot with the wind? Sherry Hunter Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 03:15:27 -0400 Hi Sherry, I'll write soon about another telescopic mounting pole idea in the near future. I have a post about done but I want to put up a pole using the method first to make sure all is right. Regarding the sway of the nest box when mounted as I described in an earlier post: Although the cost of three quarter inch galvanized steel pipe is about triple that of the three quarter inch EMT electrical conduit pipe, I use the former because I believe these sway a little less. That is also part of the reason I use the full 10 foot length instead of cutting the pole in half before pounding it into the ground. The galvanized steel pipe should also last many more years than the EMT. You have to use judgment when driving nest box mounting poles into the ground to make sure they are secure enough to withstand strong wind. You also must take into consideration the ground may be saturated with water and much softer during a wind storm. In my area where erosion has taken much of the top soil, a pole driven twenty inches will withstand severe storms. But, I have driven poles into the ground three feet or more in bottom ground where the soil is extremely soft. Gary Springer Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 09:05:15 -0400 To the List, I'm puzzled to know why so many folks talk about "pounding" or "driving" their posts into the ground. That sounds to me like doing it the hard way. I just use a crow-bar to make a hole and then drop the pipe in. It's easy, it works like a charm, and it's quick, - about 30-45 seconds. Bruce Burdett, NH Bluebird Conspiracy, Sunapee NH Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 09:51:18 EDT Hi Bruce, Can you please explain exactly how you use the crowbar to make a hole to put your pole into. How deep do you make your hole and what do you use to *pound* or *drive* the crowbar into the ground to make a hole? Sherry Hunter Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 10:25:11 -0400 Don't forget that Bruce is over 6 ft tall and weighs quite a bit! For a man of his size and strength, it is easy to use a crowbar to make a hole in the ground for a post. I am only 5'6" and weigh 165 lb. I cannot do it that way! I do use a post driver (weighing 16 lb.) which will directly drive (pound) a post into the ground. This can be the T-fence posts, galvanized water pipe and EMT. Depending on the ground I can do it anywhere from one to three minutes. I drive the post about 2' into the ground. A post driver (essentially a steel tube with a weight inside at one end, some come with handles) is slipped over the post and raised up and let go, it falls down onto the post driving it into the ground. If you can lift 16 lbs, you can do it. I also use a level (one with bubbles) to make sure I drive the post vertically into the ground. You can make corrections at first, but once it goes deep, it cannot be corrected. Also, to speed things up, you can help gravity by pulling the driver down hard onto the post. I hope this is useful to others who are only as strong as I am!!! Fawzi Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 10:37:06 EDT Thank you Fawzi, I am going to go to the hardware store and see about getting a post driver. I would not beable to make a hole with a crowbar by myself either. I am 5'5" tall and weigh 106 lbs. My soil is clay and very hard to dig in. The last time I put up one of my poles I used an old short 3' pipe and pounded it into the ground with a piece of wood on top of it using a hammer to make the hole. Took me forever! I appreciate your posting this, I think it will be helpful to many of us on this list. Sherry Hunter Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 11:21:27 -0400 To Fawzi, et al, True. As Fawzi says, I'm 6'6" and weigh 232 this morning, and I suppose that makes a difference. But I just brought my crow-bar into the house and weighed it on the bathroom scale. It weighs just over 10 lbs, 12 at most, which is less than the thing Fawzi uses. (Peg saw me bringing it upstairs and asked, "What have I done??") To make my hole in the ground with the crow-bar I use what are called 'striated muscles.' I lift it as high as I can, with the point down, and slam it down into the ground at the same exact spot as many times as it takes to make the depth I want, usually about a foot and a half or so. Since the bar is about the same diameter as the pipe, the pipe fits so snugly into the hole that it doesn't have to be very deep. My pipes are all cut exaclty 7' long. Go figure I don't use a level because, with gravity working the way it does, the bar always goes straight down and makes a plumb (vertical) hole. I'll admit that I have a little experience advantage here. As Engineer soldiers during WWII, we had to drive thousands of holes like this with crowbars, so I learned to make the right moves with my bar, and I developed the right muscles. And guys who were about 5'2" learned to do it just as fast as I could, some even faster, because their strength was more compact and concentrated than mine. (I weighed 245 then, with zero fat. A real behemoth.) This sort of thing is easier for men than for ladies, of course, but Fawzi's post driver or the average sledge hammer sounds even harder than my little crow-bar. Sometimes, if I'm tired or lazy, I just lift the thing and drop it, lift it and drop it, and let gravity do most of the work. The WORST way to do this job is with a shovel or a post-hole digger. I've actually SEEN people doing this! Talk about doing it the hard way ! ! Now I can't quite picture this 15- lb tool that Fawzi uses. When we lived on Cape Cod I used to drive our water-wells by hand with a well-driving contraption, but that weight was 60 pounds and the pipes had to go down 60 to 100 feet. The job could take a day or several days if the going was tough. That makes you really appreciate a glass of water. When I get started I can go on even longer than Wendell. Bruce Burdett. SW NH, blueburd"at"srnet.com Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 11:43:54 -0400 Dear Sherry, et al, I can certainly understand why Fawzi's suggestions were a lot more helpful than mine. Maybe you can enlist the help of some huge strong guy in your neighborhood. Bruce Burdett, SW NH blueburd"at"srnet.com Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 11:56:53 -0400 Bruce, the tool I suggested (post driver) is used by farmers to put their T-posts for barbed wire, and so on. It is available at almost all feed supply and farmer stores (I have also seen it at Home Depot and Lowes.) It does not require military training :-) to use, and needs little aim as it goes over the post directly. I think it is much easier to use (for me and the ladies as well) than that crow bar which alarmed(?) your wife .... As to the crow bar, the one you probably use is that with a pointed end (not the flat end.) These can be found at various supply stores including the ones named above. For me and the soil conditions here, it is exhausting to drive a pole that way. The ground would grip the crow bar every stroke, and I would have to pull it up, or wiggle it in order to pull it up. Very hard work. Fawzi From: "Bruce Burdett" blueburd"at"srnet.com To: "Fawzi P. Emad femad <at> fpemad <dot> com Subject: Re: Pounding !!?? To Fawzi, et al, Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 12:58:54 -0500 "i just use a crowbar and dig a little hole and pop the pole in..." yeah, right. obviously you have never lived in a place like north central texas, where you can't get in the ground with a gas powered auger. we don't all have the same soil conditions. Phil Berry Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 14:28:01 -0400 Haleya Priest Amherst MA I have repetitive stress in my right elbow and cannot use much weight without my elbow flaring up. So up until a few weeks ago, I pounded my re-rod in with a really light weight mallet. However, my husband and two dear friends all had a great laugh when they attempted to drive the re-bar in with this tool, because it was so difficult! One friend was so appalled, he dropped the mallet on the ground and without a word turned around and walked off and found a big stone. Then he proceeded to drive the re-rod in in no time. It was then I realized I was working against myself with the light weight mallet. His was an awfully big stone, and since I have found a much smaller stone - it works wonders and it travels in my car with me!!!! :-) Date: 27 Jul 2001 07:03:25 -0700 Not sure if anyone else has mentioned this method of getting your post into the ground yet or not but...an old pipefitter told me how it was done in the "olden" days before machines that do it for you... Start pounding the pole into the dirt, pour a good sized can of water around the pole where it meets the ground. Wait a few minutes and pour some more water around the pole, then pound again until you can't pound anymore, Pour another good sized can of water around the base of the pole, wait, repeat as needed to get the pole driven as far as you want it in the ground. I have tried this and have found that it does work although a little time consuming BUT it will most definately get the post trough the toughest clay/rocky soil around as the old pipefitter told me it would. Tami in Ohio Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 11:47:32 -0500 (CDT) And now for the sissy way to get a post in the ground: Wild Birds Unlimited sells a post with a ground screw at one end. No hammering, no pounding, works well in dense clay. Of course, for anyone with a trail of any size, the cost is probably prohibitive. For someone with three backyard boxes and no mechanical aptitude (me!), however, this method works quite well. Jennifer, S WI Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 20:20:35 -0400 Ok - I'll fess up: I'm a sissy too. For me, no pounding method works. The ground here is full of rocks, and whatever I hammer in meets an impenetrable obstacle sooner or later - mostly sooner. So I, too, have recourse to Wild Birds Unlimited, where they sell a round base, just a rim and four radii, into the hub of which you insert the post and stabilize it with set screws. You stabilize the base by means of a couple of hooks that hook over the rim of the base and hammer into the ground, no more than 6-8 inches deep. But this is enough. Again, this would be prohibitive for someone with lots of boxes, but for my two or three it is the only viable solution I have found so far. -- Nestbox (Mounting) Part 2 |
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