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Nestboxes (Multi-Holed) Part 2Also see discussions under Passive HOSP Control and HOSP Rampage/Revenge Syndrome. In addition to Messages that have appeared in the Bluebird Mailing Lists on this topic, the following are on the Audubon Society of Omaha website:
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 19:54:39 -0600 Well I installed four of the test two holed nestboxes this weekend. They are installed right at the edge of town where for years the bluebirds and sparrows are trying to both nest. I replaced three of the Paul Carrier "sparrow proof" nestboxes that have been up for three years now and they have always had sparrows in them if I did not trap them. I removed other nestboxes in the area and today at these test sites I trapped 7 sparrows at two of the sites to start out with a reduced population. I trapped 21 total today on only two runs throughout the "city" trail. Bluebirds were on one of the boxes about five minutes after installation and at two of the other sites within a couple hours. I would guess that the two that are on the same road are about one mile apart and another box is about 2 miles due north cross country and the fourth is about another 2 miles to the west. I have to drive further than that but as the birds would fly they are fairly close. Paul Carrier basically took a Peterson box and designed it to where the original roof was nailed to a post. He reversed the entrance hole to the bottom of the original box and made the box to where the birds would have to actually fly up vertically and enter the entrance hole from the bottom. In the first place I doubted that the birds could even find the hole let alone get in the box. I was surprised when Bluebirds did nest in one of them right away and sparrows used the other three. These sparrows seem to LOVE to fly up and hang upside down to enter these boxes. Woodpeckers often drill an entrance on the bottom side of a limb but I was surprised to see how well the sparrows liked these "sparrow proof" boxes. I will have to measure the two holed boxes for sure but I believe they are 4&1/4" deep front to back and I know they are 8" wide & 8&1/2" deep floor to bottom of entrance with a 1" thick front and have 1&9/16" round entrance holes. I saw lots of bluebirds and checked about 200 nestboxes and only one had not been used all year (experimental 4" PVC pipe horizontal and low mounted and also able to swing from side to side.) I had 6 nestboxes really for trapping sparrows within 10 blocks of the courthouse in heavy commercial use areas and all six boxes successfully fledged bluebirds after I trapped out the sparrows. I lost my first female bluebird of the year on Saturday about 3 blocks from my house. Two older ladies have four nestboxes facing each other across the street and the bluebird was killed in one of these four. I trapped 7 sparrows out of these four boxes in two days, four from the death box. A normal 4&3/4"X4&3/4" bottom one 1&9/16"" round hole and 6&1/2" deep with a 1&3/4" thick entrance. KK Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 06:56:48 -0800 Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. Keith, can you expound on the 8" x 4" floor dimension you are using? We need to hear from Fawzi on the status of his 2-hole mansions. There should be signs of activity around his boxes by now. Fawzi can view the 2-hole mansions from his house windows and has an opportunity to view details. Two of his 2-holers have been placed at single-box sites for eastern bluebirds and it is reports on those two boxes I am most interested in receiving. In 1998 at my worst sparrow/bluebird sites, sparrows took over standard 1-holers early in the season. But with 2-holed mansions in place early (like Fawzi has done this year), there were no signs of bluebird/sparrow struggles over the boxes during the first clutches of 1999. No sparrow material was found by me in the boxes during the first nestings. Bluebirds just built their nests and fledged their young--a huge gap of information. It wasn't until the second nesting that sparrows tried to muscle in (but couldn't). ...Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 21:10:50 -0600 The boxes are 8" wide inside X 4&1/4" I believe as I did not go back out today to measure. Entrance holes are in the wide front. Within a couple hours a male sparrow was in firm control of one of the boxes even though I had trapped several of his buddies on each side of the box. I will take some digital shots later this week of all of these boxes to show the local conditions. KK Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 20:40:24 -0800 Keith, I'm still curious why you chose to build your 2-hole mansions with 8" x 4.25" interior floor dimensions--I've been using approx. 6" wide by 5" front to back floors. Linda Violett ... Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 21:53:03 EST Does anyone have any spec's on the two-holed mansion or do you know where I could purchase them.... I'd like to make some...? They sound like they really do work...???? Thanks, Car... Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 22:11:42 -0500 I don't sell any, and I have made many for use at home on my test sites. I will privately send you a design diagram. Also, visit the site below which is very interesting: http://home.earthlink.net/~lviolett/test2002.html Fawzi Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 23:05:57 EST Thank you for all you info...it really helped...Car in Mo & OK... Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 22:22:14 -0500 Linda, there has been activity in all the boxes all winter long! I just hate to open the boxes when it is cold, but tomorrow is going to be warm, I promise to open and inspect all of them including the two roost boxes. Complete report coming up... Fawzi Emad Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 20:37:21 -0800 You may want to hold off a few months on either making or purchasing them because Fawzi and Keith will be reporting their results using them on their trails this season. A few sites, such as Fawzi's, will be tracked online at: http://home.earthlink.net/~lviolett/test2002.html . . . and we are anxiously awaiting a live report from Fawzi in Maryland. Fawzi, what are you seeing? Linda Violett carbocorwin"at"aol.com wrote: Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 23:52:04 -0500 (EST) On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Linda Violett wrote: You may want to hold off a few months on either making or purchasing them because Fawzi and Keith will be reporting their results using them on their trails this season. Why not go ahead and make/buy/use them NOW. Two holed boxes work fine. Certainly they work as well as regular boxes, and they have some very good features (large floor area, great depth, large roofs, wood block predator guards) and having two holes, whether it proves to be special or not, certainly is not any problem for bluebird nesting. Birds like them. (They _are_ heavy, and it takes extra time to drill all those holes, but otherwise, there is no downside (?).) Why not go ahead and use them NOW. Ever, Barry Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 08:52:48 -0500 Yes, build some now and use them. Later when the results are out, you can change them or make newer ones... Fawzi Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 06:54:49 -0800 Barry, I agree that mansions offer many advantages to nesting birds whether or not they give an advantage to bluebirds over sparrows. But your trail doesn't have a sparrow problem. Other monitors say sparrows prefer large wooden boxes; hence, the small PVC's. However, these large 2-holed boxes with approx. 6" x 5" floors have been the answer to the sparrow problems on my trail with *western* bluebirds. Fawzi, with his two single-box sites, is the first monitor who has duplicated, as much as possible, the conditions of my trail except he is working with eastern bluebirds in a sparrow-infested area. Most monitors on the Lists are working with easterns. Since I still don't know why these boxes work against sparrows on my trail, I'm not ruling out the possibility that it is how we offer the boxes (such as single-box sites) in addition to the box itself. Fawzi has been willing to duplicate my initial steps by installing his boxes during the fall/winter and it is his closely-watched trail that will give us the best indication of whether 2-holed mansions will give an advantage to eastern bluebirds over sparrows. If the larger 2-holed mansions do not give an advantage to eastern bluebirds over sparrows, and if sparrows prefer large wooden boxes, the mansions could theoretically create a larger sparrow problem. And, since Keith is offering 2-holed boxes with varying floor sizes on his large trail, we should be able to have a good overview within the next several months. This is why I recommended a "hold" on new people adding them to their trails. Late for work! Linda Violett Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 11:40:20 EST Regardless, wouldn't the bluebird have more of a chance to escape in the
two-hole mansion and more room, as compared to the old box type house.... Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 11:47:33 EST When I hang these two hole mansions, I know this seems stupid, but do I hand them low off branches or what? .....Car.... Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 11:52:02 EST OK...I'll wait a little while but I'll keep watching for your replies ! Thanks, Car..... in Mo. and OK.--Eastern Bluebirds... Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 17:05:40 -0500 (EST) On Tue, 19 Feb 2002 carbocorwin"at"aol.com wrote: When I hang these two hole mansions, I know this seems stupid, but do I Hang them from high branches. You will need a lifter. There are several designs that work. I use a plywood frame attached to a fork made of PVC pipe, attached to conduit pipe (two different sizes, so it's adjustable in length). Dick Purvis suggested making the lifter head from a plastic bucket, I think, and Linda historically has used a wooden box as the lifter head. I think Fawzi has a simple, elegant design somewhere. Hang them as high as you can reach. You will have to find or create a good space where it can hang free from a branch without hitting other branches. I like a tree at the edge of a clearing (ball field) and usually hang the box with the hole(s) facing the open field. Linda may have more detailed suggestions. Good luck, Barry Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 17:07:15 -0800 You are correct. I've never found a mutilated adult in a 2-holed mansion. Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 21:08:56 -0500 Results of the inspection today, 19 Feb. 2002: 1A: Poop indicating the roostbox is being used. Will be replaced with mansion
soon. 2A: Roostbox showing used. Will be removed soon to leave single box in 2B. 3: Box is not being used for roosting. 4A: No activity. I also took all the fronts and made them 1-9/16" entrance holes, and routed the edges to round the holes. Sanded the holes and returned the fronts on the boxes. All ready for the season except to remove the roostboxes and put one more mansion in 1A. That is it for now... Fawzi Emad in Laytonsville, Maryland Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 20:46:15 -0800 A good season's start for Fawzi! The 2002 Test page has been updated:
http://home.earthlink.net/~lviolett/test2002.html Many monitors assume that larger boxes will delay nest-building finish dates (i.e., more time needed to build the nest) or cause a delay in egg-laying (i.e., draftier boxes). I have not found that to be true on my trail with westerns. Fawzi, how does this first nest date compare to your previous year(s)? The nests built in my 2-holed mansions are normal 2" to 3" nests, with the center of the cup being only an inch or so above the floor. Would you provide a measurement from the center of the nestcup to the floor of your eastern bluebird nests in your mansions when you are certain it is completed? I believe your hole-to-floor drop is 7.5 inches? Thanks, Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 08:27:33 -0500 I never had a nest before in Feb.!!! This has been a very warm (relatively) winter for us in the east. Nonetheless, it is impressive to have it so soon. Betty once had eggs even earlier, but they did not hatch. I hope these guys take it easy and wait for the warmer weather to start laying eggs... Fawzi Emad in Laytonsville, Maryland Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 07:48:02 -0600 I believe there is NO reason not to try these boxes now! One of the reasons I do not think these will be sparrow proof is that historically "bluebird boxes" were huge compared to todays standards. One of the "experimental" box sizes in the 1920's was so large and the entrance so big that Robin's used the boxes and were evicted by house sparrows as often or more than bluebirds were! My thinking on the bluebirds getting killed in the box is that the bluebird has NO intention of "escaping". Think about the competition bluebirds had before house sparrows and starlings. They would basically have had the chickadee's, titmice, nut hatches and a few flycatchers and the house wren. NONE of these has ever been accused of KILLING or even doing major bodily harm to another adult native cavity nester! House Sparrows and Starlings on the other hand have been defending nest sites and killing each other for eons over nest sites! To take over native cavities, bluebirds only have to take possession of the box and cover up the eggs of other birds. Harry Krueger opened a box with a female bluebird trying to evict the nesting chickadees and found the chickadee standing on the bluebirds back and the bluebird had it's head tucked down into the nesting material while sitting tightly on the chickadee's eggs. The chickadee left the box and Harry reached in and picked up the bluebird pulling nesting material out of the box held tightly in the bluebirds claws. She did not even realize that Harry was in the box instead of the chickadee. We believed at the time (I still do) that this must be the reason the bluebirds ALWAYS have the BACK of the head severely pecked and not have these birds fighting face to face and losing their eyes! Look at the damage done by roosters fighting! It will be to the fronts of their heads and faces! Often times the roosters are blinded in one or even both eyes! I believe the bluebirds are used to taking possession of the box and for tens of thousands of generations other cavity nesters have simply moved on! Look how often titmice and chickadees are seen to abandon a nest site! Even the house wren is passively driving the bluebirds out of the area by filling up all but one nest site that they can defend. Watching bluebirds fight over boxes you will see them grapple and fall to the ground with each holding on with their claws. You do NOT see them pecking hard enough to cause a concussion! A House sparrow that is allowed to stand on the back of bluebird and take deadly aim at the back of a birds head will probably be able to kill or knock the bird out with one blow! Two holed boxes on the other hand ensure more ventilation which is critical in many areas of the country. It will allow the birds an escape route if a snake begins to enter one entrance hole. Same goes for if a cat/coon/possum/ETC. is reaching in one hole. Cornell showed that 43% of loses were by predators in their report last year. It allows more light to enter the box, thus the birds first inspecting will be able to see if a snake, squirrel or House Sparrow ETC. is already in the box. Until we get more video cameras installed in boxes and get to watch a couple hundred death fights of different species of bluebirds then we are only guessing. As Gary Springer's house sparrow book shows different areas of the country have House Sparrows brought from different countries! There are probably different characteristics of Linda's sparrows (spread from San Francisco) brought over from Germany than the ones in St. Louis MO. from Portugal and the ones in New York brought over from England! I believe the Houston TX. ones were brought from Spain in 1878. More people using more styles and sizes of nestboxes in more areas quickly will show trends! This hobby is evolving to a "tiny" box is better simply because these are the people writing about the boxes they are selling. They are saving thousands of $ a year on material and shipping if only 24" of 1X10"s are used compared to 48" of 1x12"s. Gary Springer's full 1" pine Chalet nestbox ships for $12 while the tiny Gilwood box or 1/16" wall thickness PVC Sewer &Drain Gilbertson will ship for under $4. Cornell TBN reports that 23 times more bluebirds used wood duck boxes last year than the ducks did. Same goes for Kestrels and larger boxes of all types. KK [This Message contained attachments] Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 06:55:03 -0800 Lots of good ideas and theories in your post, Keith. Please remember these boxes are NOT sparrow PROOF--sparrows will happily take them if they are paired or not defended. Because I have not found any mutilated adults (especially incubating females) in a 2-holed box, it is my belief bluebirds (if given the chance) are willing and able to escape if the box comes under attack. The bluebird's advantage in these boxes is probably not just the two holes. And, it is probably not just the size. It is probably a combination of features and monitoring techniques (single-box sites). Let's carefully document and share info on what happens this year. And, if others have good results, we can start dissecting. Linda Violett Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 17:26:23 -0600 "Tiny boxes": in my post this morning it sounded like I was condemning these small boxes. Bluebirds can and do use small cavities and thin light weight boxes are safe when protected from predators and in some areas they need to be protected from hot sun. Small boxes conserve wood and save on shipping but if a person is making their own boxes then it is a good idea to try some larger nestboxes and see what the birds prefer. KK [This Message contained attachments] Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 10:22:23 -0500 To review details, go to http://home.earthlink.net/~lviolett/test2002.html HOSP took over the EABL nest on site #2. Linda asked me to remove the roostbox there in order to bring the matter to a confrontation to see who would win. I have removed all roostboxes, and the sites are in their final arrangement: Site 1 has A&B paired boxes, Site 2 is a single box, Site 3 is a single box and site 4 is A&B a paired site. The EABL on #2 are trying to take the nest back. The HOSP are gone, but I am sure they will come back (I hope the EABL win!) Box 4A is occupied by a three HOSP. I moved the ground trap under that box hoping to catch them. In my next E-mail I'll send the Excel file with the details. Fawzi Fawzi Emad in Laytonsville, Maryland Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 10:55:57 -0500 Numbers without suffix A or B indicate a single box site. #2, only the mail HOSP is around, but there are the 6 EABL which come to feed on mealies as usual. The single male HOSP is on top of the nestbox surrounded by the EABL on a nearby tree. I am hoping he will leave soon. #4A, HOSP is in control of this box. No competition yet. Trap on the ground does not interest the HOSP so far. I have to be away the rest of today, so I will not be able to observe the boxes till tomorrow. Will report only if anything new happens. Fawzi Fawzi Emad in Laytonsville, Maryland Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 17:30:09 -0800 Fawzi, you are our best set of eyes into what takes place during competitions between easterns and house sparrows over 2-holers. Will easterns react the same as westerns? Frequent checks of the box interiors provides another dimension as to what is actually happening. For example: Take a look at the test site log for the LA MIRADA "Restroom" 2-holer http://home.earthlink.net/~lviolett/test2002.html (scroll toward end). During all my checks, no western bluebirds have been observed in or around that nestbox--only house sparrows have been seen chirping and hopping around in the nestbox tree. Outside observations give *no* clue of any HOSP/WEBL competition. Yet, inside the box last weekend, the floor had a lining of bermuda grass (HOSP) topped with a pine needle nest ring (WEBL). And, I am very anxious to check the contents again for changes. If that box were located near my Yorba Linda home trail, I would be opening it at least once per day. Fawzi, on box #3, you reported that HOSP took it over 2/20 and today you it as vacant. Should we assume it became vacant as of today? If so, I'll log it in. (Were any clues left in the box?) Linda Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 22:58:38 -0400 Subject: Two-hole boxes in Michigan From: Maynard R Sumner m-r-sumner"at"juno.com Hi All, Linda asked me to post these results to Bluebird-L. Name: Maynard Sumner On pole in the open, one suit feeder Date Comments 3/12/02 Trap HOSP male Name: John Minor In tree 10 feet up, by a lake and no feeders Date Name: Pat Goodall On a pole in the open, no feeders Date 4/15/02 One nest, trap HOSP Name: Jim Sander In tree 8 feet up and in a park Date: 3/12/02 Name: Mary Williams On a pole in the open, feeder 100 feet away 3/17/03 Bluebirds looking, but did not use Maynard Sumner Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 22:06:17 -0700 Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. Maynard's 2002 Michigan report on the 2-holed mansions shows that the only native species which tried to nest in them were Black Capped Chickadees. If house sparrows can get in the box, the smaller chickadees cannot compete against house sparrows (regardless of box design). Indeed, Maynard's 2002 Michigan report shows that a clutch of 8 chickadee nestlings were killed by house sparrows in a 2-holed mansion. And, this is not the first year that Maynard reports chickadees were usurped/killed by house sparrows in 2-holed mansions. Fortunately, hole restrictors can be added to protect our smaller cavity nesting birds from the larger house sparrows and I believe 1 & 1/8" holes will allow chickadees to enter the box and effectively exclude house sparrows). Since this is the second year chickadees have been usurped/killed by house sparrows in the Michigan reports on 2-holers, I'd like to know: a) Do Michigan monitors use hole restrictors to protect chickadees (smaller birds) who nest in standard 1-holed boxes? b) If so, why aren't hole restrictors being added to the 2-holed mansions as soon as chickadees start nest building? From: khussie"at"localnet.com Is anyone here using 2-holed boxes on their trail? If so, does it help reduce bluebird deaths (since the bluebird theoretically has an escape route). If not, why not? I was going to try this, but I'd like to see what others have seen with using this method. Thanks, Kieran NW of Philly Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 09:14:53 -0700 Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. Kieran, there are differing theories of whether a second hole on a box is used as an escape by adult Bluebirds while under attack from HOSP. Keith Kridler has stated in past posts that an extra hole provides NO advantage because it is his belief that Eastern Bluebirds have no intention of escaping and they intend to fight to their death. However, it appears my Western Bluebirds are not as valiant as Keith's Easterns Bluebirds. Only two adult Bluebirds on my trail have ever been killed by HOSP in 2-holers. Detailed logs of that test park can be viewed at http://home.earthlink.net/~lviolett/testvaqueros.html Scroll down to "Rope Tree" site to see the notes on the attack/kills. Detailed logs at my *worst* HOSP/WEBL test site can be viewed at: Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 10:03:31 -0700 Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. Eastern Bluebird monitors may not have the same results as my Western Bluebird trail. I'd recommend holding off on building the boxes until Fawzi (monitoring Eastern Bluebirds) provides his after-season 2003 observations. Keith, Maynard, and Kathy Clark are working with Eastern Bluebirds and all have reported no advantage using 2-holers in regard to HOSP problems. In fact, Maynard and his group in Michigan haven't been able to get Bluebirds to even start a nest in the 2-holers--after multiple years of trying! Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 10:22:05 -0700 Dear Kieran and friends, I was away for a week in Los Angeles, to attend the annual Las Floristas, Inc. (http://www.rancho.org/cart/lasflor.html) charity, a women's philanthropy organization which helps severely disabled children at Rancho Los Amigos National Rehabilitation Center (http://www.rancho.org/) and The Center for Applied Rehabilitation Technology (CART) (http://www.rancho.org/cart/) so I'll refrain from commenting on HOSP challenges as it looks like that topic was covered. I just started building 2-holed nest boxes and I'm using them on my trails this year. My 2-holed nest boxes are very large with 5" x 8" floor spaces, are designed for large broods and to give more room for the baby birds to move around in (to see this nest box, check my web site listed below.) Keith Kridler, believes that the Eastern Bluebird will just stay inside a nest box an die rather than use the extra hole to escape to turn the tables on a intruder and my view is the same. The 2-holed nest boxes doesn't help in HOSP attacks, but does help for winter roosting and the aforementioned. However, Linda Violett, has had great successes with her Western Bluebirds and 2-holed nest boxes with apparently little to no HOSP attacks on her trails. To soon for me to tell how things will work out on my trails, but based on Linda's, I remain optimistic, so we will see. However, weather you use single or double holed nest boxes, I wouldn't rule out passive or aggrieve measures to control HOSP challenges. Oops...sorry, I made a comment about HOSPs, and as always... Happy Bluebird Trails To You, From: "Keith & Sandy Kridler" kridler"at"1starnet.com Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant Texas ... Think about a cat or a coon reaching in through the only exit and dragging out eggs and nesting material one paw full at a time. House sparrows have been killing bluebirds in shallow slot boxes since they were first introduced and these are easier to exit than a deep two holed nestbox. We still have a lot to learn about bluebirds and millions of hours are spent every year by those watching every aspect of their lives! I do believe that when experimenting with two holed boxes I prefer a design that puts the holes on opposite sides so that a coon or a cat could not block both holes at once. This adds the disadvantages of facing the box away from prevailing winds though! There are trade offs in all types of experimentation...It is fun just seeing the birds nest! KK From: "Dan Hanan" danhan7"at"earthlink.net In Keith Kridler's recent email, he states that "I do believe that when experimenting with two holed boxes I prefer a design that puts the holes on opposite sides so that a coon or a cat could not block both holes at once. This adds the disadvantages of facing the box away from prevailing winds though!" I have built fives boxes this year with two entrance holes (or slots) on opposites sides. Something that appeals to me about the design is that it provides a cross ventilation in the Texas heat. On the other hand, I am not sure the EABL's like them as only one of the boxes has had a nest built in it. Dan Hanan From: "Michelle Martin" shell7"at"cox.net If a box were to have two entances , one being an emergency exit, where would the other entrance/exit hole be placed? And has this been a sure thing in most experiences? Is this hole to be the same size as the front entrance hole? Michelle Martin From: hubertrap"at"webtv.net (Joe Huber) Hi Machelle, I don't think it has been proven that with two entrances the occupants will escape or even try to. This I believe is simply human logic not a proven fact. Don't bet on this saving your birds. Joe Huber, Venice, Fl. ... Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 07:16:43 -0700 Dear Michelle, I'm not completely convinced that 2 entry holes helps Bluebirds escape to turn the tide on an intruder either as most of the time a Bluebird will just sit on top of it's nest inside the nest box and will not move at all so one or two holed entrances makes little difference in my opinion if the Bluebird are attacked. My Bluebirds do not like the 2 holed units (I think our Bluebirds are scared of 2 holed units and it may take a little more time for them to get use to them) preferring the single hole units (could be that the 2 entry holes look a little to much like a pair of very large eyes on a very large predator.) I think the only time that 2 holed nest boxes makes any sense to me is for winter roosting so the birds can get out of the nest box faster, but my Bluebird STILL prefer the single holed units for winter roosting and will not go near the 2 holed units. ... Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 11:20:27 -0400 Haleya Priest Amherst MA But still - when you think about it: If you were stuck in a small room and someone was coming in to kill you, would you feel your chances of escaping were better with one or 2 doors available? I would choose 2 doors myself - especially if the ONLY way out were past the bogey man!!!! In fact my next round of boxes I was going to make were to be with one hole in front (with a 1/4 - 1/2" vent slot over the hole) and the standard size for a slot box (1 3/16") slot in the back of the box. Here's my logic: New England is really heating up in the summer and I believe boxes setting out in 90 - 100* need more ventilation. PLUS, I think I'd like to give the chicks more of a chance to pop their heads out of the slot during those last days before fledging. I wonder if that will somehow help them developmentally - since usually only one can peek out at a time and they are always clamoring to look out. It also "might" help an adult bluebird escape should it need to. BTW: The boxes I build closest to the Tuttle boxes. This design can be found in the Bluebird Monitor book. You can see that by simply making the vent slots larger - one big enough for entry and exit by the bluebird and the other vent a tad bigger than the 1/4" that you have yourself a brand new box design that can serve a variety of purposes! The disadvantages would be a few. First, trapping would be a problem as now you'd have either 2 slots or 1 slot and one entrance hole. This could be solved by plugging up the slot or the hole and then letting the HOSP get used to that new configuration before setting the trap. The second disadvantage I see is our terrible cold wet springs. I think this could be solved simply plugging up the hole or the slot and vent during bad weather. So whomever it was who sent in the first thread with this idea - let us know
what happens! Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 22:24:58 -0700 Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. Michelle, adult Western Bluebirds on my trail *will* escape out of the second hole if the box comes under attack. Keith Kridler, on the other hand, thinks Bluebirds will fight to their deaths during defense of the box and that the second hole won't be used as an emergency exit. You asked if the second escape hole was a "sure thing in most experiences." Last year (2002), I lost two adult females in quick succession in a box under intense competition from House Sparrows. That was the only box on my trail where adults were ever killed in a 2-holed box. John Schuster's recent post suggest Western Bluebirds on his trail are hesitant to use his boxes with two holes. And Maynard (working with Eastern Bluebirds) has reported that Bluebirds in his area have been reluctant to use boxes with two holes. However, Western Bluebirds on my trail have no hesitation in using boxes with two entry holes (1.56" round) on the face of the box. Because of the contradictory information surrounding 2-holed boxes, use your own good judgment. From: "Dan Hanan" danhan7"at"earthlink.net Bluebird List I believe a double entrance nest box does provide an escape route that Eastern Bluebirds will use in emergencies. My single experience that supports this belief follows: Several weeks ago while monitoring my experimental nest box with identical
slot entrances on the front and back wall, I found only one baby that was a few
days from fledging. The previous week, there had been two babies and two eggs. I
reached in the open front (the front is the door and opens This incident is similar to the following excerpt of a posting on July 6th by Keith Kridler. "Many years ago I found four or five young bluebirds crawling in the grass under a nestbox that had a young snake in the box. The bluebirds were at least 4 days from being able to fly but they vacated the box rather than be eaten." On the question about where to place the second entrance, I place identical entrances on the opposite walls, while Linda Violet places both entrances on the front. I can use an entrance on the back as my box is mounted by the base, or bottom, instead of the back; this also permits a roof overhang in the back. Thus in the Texas heat, the predominantly southerly wind can blow through the boxes that are orientated to the north and south. I was considering changing the experimental box from a double slot entrance (1-3/16 x 5-1/2 inch) to a single 1-1/2 inch diameter hole. But I think that I will leave it as is for next several seasons and see if there are any signs of predator birds getting babies or eggs. If a loss does occur in the experimental box and not in the other 23 boxes, I will then change the entrances from slots to holes. Dan Hanan, From: KCBSP"at"aol.com Kathy Clark, New Cumberland, PA I have used Linda's two holed boxes mostly where there are no existing nest
boxes around at all. Sometimes I do attract bluebirds and have one box in
particular that has had them for 3 years straight. Tree swallows are nesting in
them as well as titmice, chickadees, and wrens. As far as escaping from the Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 10:08:46 -0700 Dear Friends, Though my Bluebirds are reluctant to use two holed boxes, they may take to them eventually. I'm always experimenting and developing new methods (the Diamond Pattern being one of these methods) on my many trails, so we will have to see what the future brings. All I have to say on this subject is that if you desire to have a 1 hole or 2 hole nest box you should use your best judgment as to what works for you and your Bluebirds. In the long run though, what really matters is a properly mounted well engineered nest boxes with abundant floor space and ventilation (if you have a standard NABS nest box try cutting a "DOG EAR" on the upper corner of each side wall instead of drilling holes, as the heat rises inside the nest box the heat will vent though these large "DOG EAR" vents better than any drilled holes, and check out my web site below to get a look at one of my Meadowood Bluebird nest boxes as these have the best ventilation of any nest box that I have ever built with my Meadowood Bluebird Chateau being the best of the lot) as this is by far more important than how many entry holes your nest box has or will ever have in my opinion. To small a floor space (my Meadowood Bluebird Chateau has a large floor space of 5"x 8") craps the baby Bluebirds and I've seen deaths attributed to this crapping (just pulled out a dead hatching yesterday that was shoved over to the side of the nest by it's 4 surviving siblings) and what can I say about ventilation. As we all know heat can be critical in very hot and humid areas, so ventilation is paramount in my opinion. I prefer to build nest boxes that have superior ventilation rather than adding foam, screen netting, heat shields (a good heat shield that I would recommend for a NABS nest box, would be to cut a 3/4 inch piece of CDX plywood that is larger than the preexisting roof and treat the heat shield with a wood preservative. Then cut some 1/2 inch PVC pipe into 4 sections to either 1/2 inch or 1 inch lengths and then attach the heat shield to the preexisting roof with screws. This is a great heat shield and the over hang is a good predator guard too) or other adapters to a improperly engineered nest box because I do not have the time to mess around adapting nest boxes. However, if you already have a nest box with questionable ventilation or heat resistance and need to adapt it with the above measures, I can understand that it might be best to adjust a nest box until it has out lived it's usefulness and then replace it with something better at a later date. On a fun note, I saw a Coopers Hawk take out a what looked like a Pine Siskin
(not a Bluebird) at a vineyard in the Napa valley that I was working in this
past weekend. The Coopers Hawk was flying about 300 feet above me when it dove
into an oak tree (not more that a 100 yards Up and up the Pine Siskin went with the Coopers Hawk in hot pursuit cutting off every turn the Pine Siskin made until EEEEK! A quick kill and down the Coopers Hawk went to the nearest oak tree to enjoy it's kill. Lets face it gang, I have the best job in the world and it sure beats working behind a desk all day long (all though that is what I'm doing right now isn't it.) With that it's time to hit the trails, so cheers to all and as always... Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 14:30:54 -0400 Subject: Re: question on boxes with 2 entrances From: Maynard R Sumner m-r-sumner"at"juno.com On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 08:00:57 -0500 "Dan Hanan" danhan7"at"earthlink.net ... In Michigan we find that sometimes the male HOSP will go in one hole and the
female will go in the other hole and kill the other birds. Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 22:24:50 -0400 Haleya Priest Amherst MA ... From: danhan7"at"sbcglobal.net [mailto:danhan7"at"sbcglobal.net] Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2004 Subject: Re: Two or One Entrance Holes? Paula recently stated in a post: “In my experience, my backyard EABL are NOT tolerant of HOSP regardless of season. They chase them from the feeder even during winter months. I also had a pair fatally attack a HOSP last month when it looked in the empty nest box and the female EABL picked him off the front of the box and male hit him next - great to see. If it had been HOSP attacking EABL, I would have been If Bluebirds can hold their own outside the nestbox but are doomed when cornered inside the nestbox by a House Sparrow, then logically, they need an escape route: namely, a second entrance hole. I believe Linda Violett uses two entrance holes in her “mansion” nest boxes. Are there others on the List who are using, or have used, two entrances? If so, what are the results and thoughts on using two entrance holes verses one? Dan Hanan From: Musher"at"aol.com [mailto:Musher"at"aol.com] And are the entrance holes on opposite sides of the box or one above the other on the same side? Marilyn From: danhan7"at"sbcglobal.net [mailto:danhan7"at"sbcglobal.net] Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 8:23 AM Subject: Re: Two or One Entrance Holes? I would think that the entrance holes would be side by side or on different sides of the nestbox. Dan Hanan From: John Schuster [mailto:wildwingco"at"earthlink.net] Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 11:18 AM Subject: One or Two Holed Nest Boxes, that is the Question? First the entrance holes are side to side. Now, will having 2 entrance holes assist Bluebirds in giving them an exit out of the nest box so they can fight off an invading HOSP or other avian intruder? This question has been brought up in the past on Bluebird L and I say that it all depends on many factors (time of year, female laying on her eggs inside her nest box, and or just baby Bluebirds inside the nest.) Linda Violett 2 holed nest boxes and the way Linda manages her program seems to work. However, we've tried 2 holes nest boxes on our trails and our Western Bluebirds do not take to them, and that's probably because we've used only single holed nest boxes for so many years that our Western Bluebirds do not know what to make of this new 2 holed nesting box contraptions. In theory 2 holed nesting boxes should work, but I believe Keith Kridler, once posted that if a female Bluebird is laying on top of her eggs, her instincts are to just lay there to protect her eggs, so if a HOSP pops into the nest box (2 holes or not) its curtain for the lot. I also remember a post that Keith Kridler made about a larger HUBER style nest box trap, with 2 holes, with 2 holding chambers inside, separated by Plexiglas for trapping both male and female HOSPs. We make our own version of the HUBER Trap (ours is called the GABLE TRAP, because it looks like our smart looking Meadowood Bluebird nest box with a pitched roof) and I've been considering fabricating a template for a 2 holed nest box trap based on Keith's information and the trap works like this. HOSP box traps need 1 3/8" entrance holes cut to accommodate the HOSP only. When you have a HOSP challenge, you remove the threatened Bluebird nest box, and replace it with the nest box trap. I believe it is important (but not imperative) that you stick with a nest box design that is consist with your nest box trap. That way, when you have to trap a marauding HOSP, you can make the switch in seconds, walk away for a minute or 2 (keeping an eye on the trap), which traps the HOSP in seconds (yes, in seconds), saving you time and hassles. Now when the male HOSP jumps into one hole, and get trapped, the entrance hole that the male HOSP jumped into is now blocked by the trap door, but the other entrance is still open because each entrance has it's own trip mechanism. The female HOSP now comes over to investigate what happened to her male counterpart. She has no alternative but to look inside the only entrance hole open to her, she looks inside, sees her male counter part on the other side of the Plexiglas, leaps inside her side of the nest box trap and is trapped in turn. Now you have trapped both male and female HOSPs for you to dispose of accordingly. Best places to mount nest box traps (on a more permanent bases) are under the eves of buildings or near bushes where HOSP like to hang out. I say, "Trap early and trap often!" Ever since we've employed a pre-nesting season trapping program, we've reduced our HOSP challenge to next to nothing. If you do, you'll remove the menace in advance before the menace becomes genuine. Again, as far as 2 holed nest boxes goes, stick with a consisted program (be it a single or 2 holed nest boxes program.) I do believe, that it's all a matter of conditioning your Bluebirds to the program that you've selected as they will take to either design. Not that they will never use a 2 holed nest box if you have only been using single holed nest boxes in the past, but you may loose a nesting season at locations where you switched horses in the middle of a (nesting season) stream. Cheers and as always... Happy Bluebird Trails To You, John Schuster From: Larry A Broadbent [mailto:rockets"at"mnsi.net] From: John Schuster [mailto:wildwingco"at"earthlink.net] From: paradocs2 [mailto:paradocs2"at"adelphia.net] From: paradocs2 [mailto:paradocs2"at"adelphia.net] From: Dottie Roseboom [mailto:rosedot"at"mtco.com] Marilyn, Several people on this list have reported quite good success with using 2 entrance holes (side by side) in a nestbox that is slightly larger than the conventional NABS size. However, others have reported a few bluebird deaths, even with the double entrances. Several thoughts that occurred to me as I read your post. 1) If both parents happen to be absent from the nest, and the sparrows attack, the eggs or young nestlings will NOT be able to benefit from the two holes. 2) Having sparrows around is stressful to bluebirds, even if they can escape. (I have this documented on many video tapings.) Many bluebirds will leave an area that is overly-populated with sparrows. 3) Sparrows harass "wild" birds nesting in natural cavities. 4) Sparrows steal seed from feeders intended for native songbirds. If you have an active trapping program, and the two hole entrance is just another layer of precaution, that's great. However, I would not expect such a nestbox modification to solve sparrow problems. Dottie Roseboom Peoria IL (central - zone 5) From: lviolett [mailto:lviolett "at"earthlink.net] Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2004 5:10 AM Subject: Re: Flying squirrels/Holes Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. [Note from Webmaster: See beginning of thread under Squirrels topic] Keith, I'm going to provide a long answer to your short question of why Bluebirders put two holes on the face of the box rather than putting one on the front and one on the back as you suggest. First, only a tiny fraction of us put more than one hole on a nestbox. Perhaps the main reason why most bluebirders don't add an extra hole is the perception that a second hole would create a cold and drafty nestbox. In fact, The Bluebird's Monitor Guide (on page 105) states, " . . . in colder parts of the continent, an extra hole would just make a box drafty and chilly . . . " Whether that statement would hold up to scientific testing is questionable but boxes with two holes are *perceived* to be detrimentally colder. If the rare bluebirder decides to add an extra hole, they want to make sure the box can be turned away from wind and moisture. With side-by-side holes on the face of the nestbox (my preference), turning the box face away from wind and rain is possible. With one hole on the "front" and another on the back, a wind tunnel would be created which would give more velocity to snow and rain entering the box. There is no good reason for Bluebirders to drill an extra hole on a box if it doesn't provide some type of benefit. Keith, you have said more than once that you believe bluebirds will fight to their deaths rather than escaping out the second hole. But your last post seems to indicate you are having second thoughts about their will to live during the throes of an attack. It has long been my belief that Bluebirds will try to fly/escape from danger and I'm wondering if you now agree. At any rate, this response may shed light on why the vast majority of Bluebirders don't add a second hole and why the tiny few who do choose to put them side by side. Building boxes is always a compromise by weighing the odds. What predators are you referring to in your post, Keith, that could stick their arms into side-by-side holes but not holes placed on the back and front? Monitors having problems with predators sticking arms into both holes at the same time should be thinking of more drastic changes than where to place a second nestbox hole. From: Keith & Sandy Kridler [mailto:txbluebirder "at"sbcglobal.net] Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2004 11:09 AM Subject: Re:Flying squirrels/holes Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas There is a huge difference in behavior between different pairs of Eastern Bluebirds on the same trail. You have pairs that leave the nestbox flying hundreds of yards away at the mere sight of the trail monitor. You have pairs that scold and dive bomb at you with clicking beaks from the time you leave the car all the while you open and check the nestbox and will chase you back to the car again. You also have pairs that calmly preen their feathers just a few feet out of reach while you check their nestbox and you also have females that refuse to leave the nestbox and you can pick them up, check leg bands, count eggs or young and return them to the nest where they settle down like a tame bantam hen. Bluebirds are individuals and I really don't think any two pair will defend their nest with the same intensity. Each pair will probably react differently to different perceived attacks by different predators. Four legged predators: Look in The Bluebird Monitor's Guide and you can see that a cat or coon sitting on the roof of the nestbox can swipe at both entrance holes at the same time if they are inches apart. That a raccoon could just as easily hang with one foot in an entrance hole while reaching into another entrance if it is on the same side as the coon is shown hanging onto the front edge of the roof and then reaching into the nestbox. Ideally no predators should be able to reach the nestbox but I have traveled all over the country and 90% of all cavities have no predator protection at all and never will. Hawks and owls can home in on entrances on only one side of a nestbox. ((We think of imported invasive species as only happening to us here in the USA. Japanese imported raccoons for household pets and they routinely escaped and are now found breeding, multiplying and eating their native animals over 3/4 of their country side. Native Japanese fish are being decimated by the introduction of Florida large mouth bass and the common bluegills which have spread throughout their lakes and river systems.)) Holes on opposite sides are drafty in northern areas: The Bluebird Monitor's Guide had hundreds of people contribute to the book and I don't agree with that statement. We are helping Cornell for the third year with the installation of Temperature Data Loggers into all styles of nestboxes. It is NOT the nestbox that keeps the eggs or young birds warm it is the female's brood patch! Temperature of the eggs plummet whether or not there is any wind blowing when the female raises up off of her eggs! Join Cornell this year and include your nestboxes in their continuing temperature study!!! We recommend and use thousands of nestboxes with 1/2" ventilation slots between the sides of the nestbox and the overhanging roof. Each slot on the side is letting in 2 & 1/2 square inches of ventilating air X 2 so you have 5 square inches of opposite/cross ventilation. On the front of the nestbox a 1&1/2" round holes is ONLY 1.76 square inches of ventilation. You could actually build a nestbox and use FIVE entrance/exit holes that would be just about equal our ventilation. Birds are HARDY and adapt to adverse nesting conditions! Penguins lay eggs and hatch young in the snow during blizzards! Lack of food is killing baby penguins this year not the cold. Scientific research on bluebird nest temperatures can REALLY help other species and our understanding of the dynamics of climate on the nesting of birds. Cornell is about to REALLY push the envelope with the Data Logger Temperature study. They will be able to tell you someday if temperature, wet nests or heat is killing your nestlings or whether it is just poorly qualified parents... House Sparrows attacking and killing bluebirds: Once again Eastern and Western Bluebirds will react differently and then individuals will act differently within the species. Many times only the male House Sparrow will attack and kill the native birds. He cannot block the entrance while he is attacking in the bottom of the nestbox. We very often see professional boxers knocked out with the very first punch thrown in a fight when the boxers are using padded gloves. A House Sparrow is strong and is wielding a very sharp BATTLE AXE. As nest cams become more common we will surely see how long a battle for a nestbox lasts. Why can one sparrow in a trap sometimes kill every other bird in that trap? There is a "pecking order" in flocks of birds and in Wolf packs. I ask you all questions because we need to remember that we will probably NEVER learn all the answers, because the answers change from day to day and are only good as long as the ink is still wet or until someone else can post in 10 seconds, "THAT'S NOT WHAT I JUST SAW!" From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper "at"bayou.com] Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2004 11:39 AM Subject: RE: Flying squirrels/holes Keith writes: "Holes on opposite sides are drafty in northern areas: The Bluebird Monitor's Guide had hundreds of people contribute to the book and I don't agree with that statement. We are helping Cornell for the third year with the installation of Temperature Data Loggers into all styles of nestboxes. It is NOT the nestbox that keeps the eggs or young birds warm it is the female's brood patch! Temperature of the eggs plummet whether or not there is any wind blowing when the female raises up off of her eggs! Join Cornell this year and include your nestboxes in their continuing temperature study!!!" Have there been studies to prove this not to be true? If a nestbox is not kept warmer by plugging the vent holes on each side in the winter, why do it? I would think Linda's idea of having them both on the front would keep it less drafty. My thinking is that a cooler box when the female leaves would mean that the eggs would cool off faster. That is just my reasoning since I have no scientific proof. Evelyn Cooper From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper "at"bayou.com] Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2004 12:13 PM Subject: RE: Flying squirrels/hole Something I have observed in my experiences on my trail is on the first nesting cycle, it is always colder and it takes the full 14 days for the babies to hatch and the mama spends more time on the nest. On the second and third cycle, they usually hatch the 11th and 12th day and the female spends less time on the nest. I always felt it had to do with the temperature inside the nestbox that had that effect on the eggs. I definitely believe the temp in the box has effects on the eggs, nestlings and the parents too, especially severe cold or heat which our different parts of the country has. Evelyn Cooper Note from Webmaster: Remainder of thread posted on Nestboxes (Insulation /Ventilation- Heat/Cold) From: LindaEHunt"at"aol.com [mailto:LindaEHunt"at"aol.com] Been Bluebirding for 3 years but have just started hearing about the desirability of 2 entrance holes on nest boxes. Could someone please direct me to the site with instructions for a 2-entrance-hole EABL nestbox. Thanks from Eastern North Carolina. From: Ron Kingston [mailto:kingston"at"cstone.net] Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 1:05 PM Subject: Re: 2 entrance holes Linda, http://home.earthlink.net/~lviolett/ Ron Kingston Charlottesville VA From: Maynard Sumner [mailto:m-r-sumner"at"juno.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 1:14 PM Subject: Re: sparrow trapping I think I am the only one that still has a two-hole box in Michigan. They did not work good in the trees and we did go to putting them on post. I did get more Bluebirds on the post. This year I made the two-hole into a cam box and all I got was House Wrens. I will make a video of the House Wrens. Maynard Sumner From: lviolett [mailto:lviolett"at"earthlink.net] Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 2:25 PM Subject: Re: sparrow trapping Maynard, would you describe, specifically, what disadvantage to Bluebirds you perceive in regards to 2 side-by-side holes on a Bluebird box. There is the very real possibility that the 2nd hole is being used by Bluebirds to escape during a HOSP attack. I am asking you to present a disadvantage of the same magnitude. It is important for you to try your best stick to Bluebirds in this discussion because there are better design choices for Chickadees, House Wrens, etc. ... From: Maynard Sumner [mailto:m-r-sumner"at"juno.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 8:33 PM Subject: Re: sparrow trapping Linda, I had one Bluebird nest in the two-hole box in 2003 and one in 2004. All the other boxes were filled up so they had to use the two-hole box. Most of the time they will not go near the two-hole box. Maynard Sumner From: susan bulger [mailto:suebulger"at"earthlink.net] Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 12:02 AM Subject: two hole boxes, plugs and vents Susan Bulger, Fullerton, CA Kathy, Evelyn and all, I forgot to address my replies to the list as well as Evelyn and Kathy so I will answer again. The black rubber stoppers I use to block the second hole while trapping are from our local Ace Hardware store. At first I was looking for corks but then saw these plugs which come in many sizes. www.acehardware.com phone We put vent holes in the sides of the first one hole boxes my husband made. From: "Keith & Sandy Kridler" <txbluebirder"at"sbcglobal.net> Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2006 7:31 AM Subject: myth of steep roof lines for boxes ...The slot boxes or two holed nestboxes allow an escape route if a predator happens to be reaching into the only entrance on a standard nestbox.... From: lviolett [mailto:lviolett"at"earthlink.net] Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 1:31 AM Subject: Re: steep roof & escape route Keith, in the past you stated there was no advantage to 2 holed boxes as an escape route because Bluebirds would fight to the death. What changed your position? Perhaps you feel Bluebirds won't escape if under attack from a competitor (House Sparrow) but will leave if attacked by a predator? Linda Violett From: Keith & Sandy Kridler [mailto:txbluebirder"at"sbcglobal.net] Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 9:38 AM Subject: Re: steep roof & escape route Keith Kridler where 4&1/2 inches of rain has now fallen over three days! One local insurance company had 1,500 claims submitted by Friday when severe winds knocked down trees and blew off roof shingles in our area. MANY dead trees came down as well as breaking off old cavities right when woodland birds are hatching out young. When I tested two holed nestboxes in House Sparrow areas I found that Eastern Bluebirds were killed in these boxes and since I placed these in areas where I was having House Sparrows and Bluebird competition I actually had half of the bluebirds killed that year in two holed nestboxes compared to one holed nestboxes even though I had a relatively few two holed, larger floored nestboxes compared to the hundreds of my other styles of one holed nestboxes. I don't think "my" Eastern Bluebirds try to escape from a House Sparrow. I have video of them attacking any House Sparrow that comes near their nesting boxes and local people claim to have watched bluebirds pulling House Sparrows out of nestboxes. I have bluebirds every year that take over House Sparrow nests and lay eggs in them and raise their young in a House Sparrow nest. Eastern Bluebirds routinely take over smaller nests like titmice and chickadees and often will kill them if they defend their nests. Eastern Bluebird numbers would not be increasing if they turned tail at the first sight or song of a House Sparrow. Lets face it VERY few nest sites are protected by humans 24-7 from House Sparrows. Millions of nestboxes are sold and installed each year and only a few thousand people actually belong to bluebird groups and many of these won't harm a House Sparrow! There is a huge difference I believe in the way bluebirds react to predators. Female bluebirds sitting on a nest at night will probably not leave the nest if a raccoon or opossum reaches into the nestbox. If the raccoon begins pulling out nesting material then grabs a paw full of tail feathers the female is bound to try to exit the box at some point. With a raccoon arm stuck in the only entrance hole she will bounce around the cavity until at some point the raccoon crushes the bones in her body with it's paw. Or the cat hooks her with sharp claws. Those of us who have helped band or those who trap House Sparrows observe this type behavior in nesting birds all the time. Some will panic and try to escape and others will cower down on the nest and hope we don't see them. A lot of this female sitting on the nest when we approach and open the nestbox is due to the fact that they do not consider a careful trail monitor a threat or a predator. Very often you see the male bluebird call the female out of the nestbox when a cat or stray dog approaches the nest site. During the day a female bluebird that sits in a shallow nestbox and looks out the entrance hole can escape quickly if a cat appears nearby. In the dark if she leaves the eggs will chill and not hatch if she does this very often. On several occasions I have come up to a nestbox and found a large snake that has entered the only exit hole and is half in and half out of the box. It probably entered the nestbox but was unable to get a firm grasp on any of the young birds before they left the box. Thus they had an exit opportunity and even being too young to fly they left the box. A larger more experienced snake would have blocked the entrance until it had eaten or at least killed them from what I have found. OR the adults might have called them out of the box before the snake entered it! We just don't know the answers to most problems before they occur. This is really the first year that wireless web cams are actually cheap enough for widespread use and the more cameras we have the more interaction between birds that will be recorded. Remember a few years ago when Cornell's bluebird cam recorded the baby bluebirds getting eaten by a snake? Maybe this year we will witness the fights that go on between competing species. I know there is a difference between the way bluebirds react to being trapped in a nestbox and the way House Sparrows react when I trap them. KK From: lviolett [mailto:lviolett"at"earthlink.net] Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 1:59 AM Subject: Re: two holes and predators Keith, you've mentioned cats sitting on a roof and possibly putting 2 paws in a 2 holed box a couple of times as a reason for not putting the 2 holes on one side. That is not a good rationale for a hole placement discussion, because it the box is in trouble regardless of which side of the box you put holes.. Cats and raccoons sitting on the box *is* a good reason to start a hanging box trail, or mounting the nestbox on a telescoping pole. Linda Violett From: Keith & Sandy Kridler [mailto:txbluebirder"at"sbcglobal.net] Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 8:59 AM Subject: Re: two holes and predators and severe weather now Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant Texas If a female bird feels threatened at night she might abandon eggs and go off in search of a better safer nest site come morning! Even if they fledge young from a box but still feel threatened they may use another nestbox for the second or third nesting. Each region of the country has prevailing winds and most storm fronts come out of the north west for us but individual rain storms can blow in from other directions. In Ohio my dad built bird feeders that were covered platforms with a wide front and back entrance and mounted them on pipe about In the Bluebird Monitor's Guide we show a metal socket that attaches to a heavy wooden fence post and we drop a conduit mounted extension pole and nestbox into this socket to get the nestboxes above the height a horse can reach, 9'>12' or so. What you end up with is a telescoping pole but the weight of the box normally lets it lean in one direction. IF you have very severe winds then the boxes will sometimes shift, pivoting on the nail the conduit is resting on and the box entrance will turn away from a severe wind.... From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com] I would like to point out that to state for the whole nation that a "hanging box trail" should not be a recommendation overall to every part of our nation. From: SCooke [mailto:ncw001"at"nc.rr.com] Linda, From: denisefarmer"at"comcast.net [mailto:denisefarmer"at"comcast.net] ...I will tell you that she builds her own and the website to see them is below: Linda, hope you don't mind me passing on this info. Denise Parkville, MD Here's how to build it: http://home.earthlink.net/~lviolett/construction.html From: Bruce Burdett [mailto:blueburd"at"verizon.net] Denise, From: Keith & Sandy Kridler [mailto:txbluebirder"at"sbcglobal.net] Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas a cool 54*F this morning. Robert McKinney in Mt. Vernon Texas back in the early 1990's went to help a group of Boy Scouts put together 50 bluebird nestboxes. He went alone and allowed one of the boys to drill entrance holes in the nestboxes after the box was nailed together. He had all kinds of problems helping a whole troop by himself and the boy drilling the entrance holes got bored drilling the holes. The boy decided to drill a hole in the front and then drill another hole in each side. Robert ended up with 50 three holed nestboxes. Eastern Bluebirds in this part of our state liked these nestboxes (heck they like all types of nestboxes) and Robert began to make three holed nestboxes and he designed a "window shutter", actually a block of wood held on with one screw so that he could pivot the shutter and close off two of the holes during really cold weather. He also installed a shutter over one hole of a three holed nestbox if the entrance faced a large lake or busy highway for when the young bluebirds got ready to fly they were forced to choose a safer direction for their first flight. Robert McKinney found that House Sparrows still used these nestboxes. He noted that very often a bluebird would enter the nestbox through one hole and then leave the nestbox out a different hole, thus making it more difficult for the then rare Cooper or Sharp Shinned hawks to predict a certain flight path. We were making all sizes of nestboxes at this time in this area and they ranged in size from 4" diameter round PVC to 8"X8" bottoms and depths ran 5">10" deep in the PVC nestboxes. Most of our wood nestboxes were 5"x5" bottoms as we could make these out of 1"x12" lumber. From: Cher [mailto: bluelist"at"localnet.com] Sent: Monday, May 15, 2006 10:31 AM Subject: Re: 1-holer vs 2 holer Keith, thank you for this information on multiple-holed boxes. So what are the DISadvantages that prevent two-holers from being the standard? Two I can think of off-hand are more access points for predators and - here in the northeast, where the weather sometimes turns very cold and nasty after nesting begins - more openings for the cold to get in. McKinney 's shutter solution might solve that problem. Interesting that the shutters aren 't mentioned in the Bluebird Monitor 's Guide - at least not that I could see. I realize there is no one-size-fits-all answer to this question, but each person should weigh the advantages against the disadvantages and compare those with the particular circumstances and most prevalent threats in their own location and make a reasoned decision. Which is what the BMG says, in effect: "If you decide to experiment with extra entrance holes, be sure to . . . monitor the box closely to note any advantages or problems that might occur in your area." So have these boxes been used extensively by anyone in my part of the country - the northeast - and with what results? Of course, here again, I 'm looking at it from the viewpoint of a Backyarder, not a multiple-nestbox trail manager. In my case noting "advantages or problems that might occur" could equal the loss of an entire nesting - half of what I might hope to assist the birds to accomplish in a whole season. I wouldn 't want to risk that unless I 'd already experienced a problem that I thought multiple entrance holes would solve - without causing other problems I couldn 't foresee. What was it that Hamlet said . . . "Better to bear the ills we have than fly to others that we know not of ..." Cher From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com] Sent: Monday, May 15, 2006 11:21 AM Subject: Re: 1-holer vs 2 holer Cher, you bring up some"most" important points, in my book. Here where we are, we HAVE to have cross ventilation in the heat. The two-holers that are recommended do not have any side vents. When anyone "recommends" something, there really should be a little more information especially for "newbies" on this List that don't know anything about what is being recommended. Also, the two-holer only allows the birds that are large enough to fly and escape and does nothing to protect the eggs or babies that are in the box. When I give information to anyone, I explain why the holes in the bottom of the box are there and why the side vents are there for our part of the country. What works in one area, may not work at all in another. We need to explain the benefits, disadvantages and give more information, not just say use this, it will solve your problems. Evelyn, Dehli LA From: Denise [mailto:maltmomma"at"alltel.net] Sent: Monday, May 15, 2006 1:42 PM Subject: Re: 1-holer vs 2 holer A question: Will the ventilation/drainage holes in the bottom attract From: Robert Barron [mailto:rebarron"at"gmail.com] Sent: Monday, May 15, 2006 3:53 PM Subject: Re: 1-holer vs 2 holer Hi Denise, I think you'll find that the nest usually covers the ventilation holes on the bottom and that it's rare for droppings to fall through them unless they are very large holes. Bluebird parents are very good at removing their babies' fecal sacks too. A nest box that is too small makes this more difficult. Snakes can detect scent by "parts per million" and the nestlings crying to be fed when parents return with food are very audible to mammalian predators. The best you can probably do is have a deep nest box with a good baffle. Good luck and keep us posted. Rob Barron From: lviolett [mailto:lviolett"at"earthlink.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 11:29 AM Subject: Re: 1-holer vs 2 holer Cher, I didn't see anyone answer your question as to any DISadvantages that prevent two-holers from being the standard. Monitor perception seems to be the only limiting factor. And Cher PERCEIVES the box would be too cold for her area during the spring which I find interesting because 2-holers are used on a trail at our cabin located 7,000 feet high near a California mountain ski resort. We are the first and last to get snow and I don't plug the extra hole. So I have used 2-holers in freezing mountain ski resort weather and in our hot arid desert-like conditions near the beach. So the PERCEPTIONS against using 2-holers run the gamut of extremes from too hot to too cold. Cher states that an extra hole would give more access points for predators. Evelyn says the extra hole does nothing to prevent to loss of babies if Therefore, I'd like to hear some logical responses to Cher's question, "So what are the DISadvantages that prevent two-holers from being the standard?" Linda Violett From: Cher [mailto:bluelist"at"localnet.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 12:25 PM Subject: Re: 1-holer vs 2 holer lviolett wrote: > And Cher PERCEIVES the box would be too cold for her area during the Linda, et al, I, too, would like to hear some evidence on both sides of the question. Yes, I can ENVISION a possible problem with additional openings in colder climates. Are your Bluebirds in the ski resort climate actually nesting during that cold weather, or do they wait longer to nest because of the late snowfalls? I'm not familiar with your ski resort climate - do the temperatures unpredictably fluctuate the way they do here in the Northeast? Technically, I didn't say I PERCEIVED this as a problem, because that would require me to have experimented with the two-holed box so as to become AWARE of a problem that I could actually see some EVIDENCE of. And, as I indicated, I'm not be willing to conduct such an experiment without pretty convincing EVIDENCE that the addition of another opening the size of an entrance hole wouldn't endanger my one and only Bluebird couple. Nothing can be learned without experimentation. I just don't want my couple to be the guinea pigs. > Evelyn says the extra hole does nothing to prevent to loss of babies if I can see the logic in the "escape hatch" theory. It would seem to make sense. My only question is whether or not the advantage of having an escape hatch would be neutralized by the addition of more access points that the birds would have to guard. The main predator I have to contend with here in the rural Northeast is House Sparrows. In spite of taking steps to eliminate them from the area, I still have to install Sparrow Spookers on the entrances in order to keep the odd male from entering a box with eggs. Would I need to install two spookers on each house, or would one serve to protect both entrances? Has anyone ever installed sparrow spookers on a two-holed box? Cher From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 12:46 PM Subject: Re: 1-holer vs 2 holer Linda, I think if you read my original message, I stated that "more information should be given when promoting something as the answer to a problem". Sure, holes can be drilled. This should be pointed out every time. This has never been pointed out by Linda before From: David Gwin [mailto:David.Gwin"at"cityofcarrollton.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 1:12 PM Subject: RE: 1-holer vs 2 holer (BIG WARNING: Everyone should sit back and hang on ... 'cause I am about to go there with this topic! ;)) Howdy, Linda: By now everyone on the list knows that I always have at least one experiment or trial related to my nest boxes or cavity nesters in general working at any given time ... Well, I have one running in the background on two (or multi-) hole vs. one hole boxes as we speak ... I have to qualify all of this by stating that these drawbacks are only drawbacks on my newer, much larger hanging boxes (proabably because of box size and overall mounting height). Thus far, the primary drawbacks both have to do with bee swarms. At present, it appears that bees are more naturally drawn to the two or multi- hole hanging boxes ... that is, over the one-hole hanging boxes. In close consultation with two friends that are experienced bee keepers, we have a strong hunch that they prefer the two- or multi-holed boxes because they are easier for them to cool as the hive heats up in the late afternoon. (FYI - Every hive has bees that work exclusively to regulate the core temperature of the colony). We have another hunch that they may not be able to properly regulate a "one-hole box" hive in late July or August. The second significant drawback is that once swarmed it is much more difficult for me to confine the bees in the box as I attempt to "lift" Just some thoughts ... I will keep you posted as I continue to work on these challenges! Take care, P.S. - I am still a big fan of hanging my boxes ... I just don't know if multiple entrance holes on much larger boxes are a keeper for me here on my trails. From: Bruce Burdett [mailto:blueburd"at"verizon.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 3:57 PM Subject: Re: Honeybees and 2- or 3- holers David, Bruce Burdett PS Are the Africanized bees really difficult to work with, or are they From: Donna [mailto:spraydm"at"earthlink.net] I have a tidbit about the second hole issue, but not related to hanging boxes. From: David Gwin [mailto:David.Gwin"at"cityofcarrollton.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 4:25 PM Subject: RE: Honeybees and 2- or 3- holers Howdy, Bruce; Actually, I have never had bees swarm any of my Peterson or TBS-style nest boxes ... but I often get them in my larger post-mounted boxes (i.e. those for woodpeckers, owls, WODU, AMKE, etc.) and my larger hanging songbird boxes (i.e. very similar to Linda's bluebird mansions). Regarding "Africanized" bees ... Trust me, from personal experience, this is not just Hollywood! A hive that is "Africanized" does not visually appear any different than a regular European bee colony. Take care, P.S. - For those friends on the B-List that primarily combat HOSP and EUST ... maybe you would be interested in a few of our 9-foot-long Texas Rat Snakes or a swarm or two of our "Africanized" honey bees? I promise they will help keep your montioring lively! From: Keith Kridler Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas Back to two holed nestboxes. If you use a 1&1/2" round entrance hole you only have 1.76 Square inches of ventilation per hole. In my one holed nestboxes I also have two slots 1/2" tall or taller X 4&3/4" IF you make extra deep nestboxes the young should be well below any drafts in a box. Shallow nestboxes like the K box that is only 4" deep will have any wind at all blowing in the entrance hole blowing right on the young birds. Bluebirds normally make a nest 2" tall or more in small floor area nestboxes. I personally think that bluebirds are more cold hardy than we give them credit. Baby birds die in all kinds of weather. It is just that when it is cold and wet we want to blame the weather for killing them when it could be any number of diseases or parasites. I do believe some die due to hypothermia but it would be nice to use more temperature monitors in nestboxes to see if box styles can make a difference. People with larger trails should always be testing new nestbox styles. I noticed that the wasps that were in Bet's nestboxes were in boxes sealed up really tight:-)) She even uses glue to seal up the cracks. My nestboxes are more like a carport than a garage. With large ventilation slots in the tops of my boxes the wasps tend to look elsewhere for someplace to build their nests. There really are not any disadvantages that I can see to having two or even three entrance holes. You could try one box in your yard and if you don't like it you can always cover up a hole or two. You should also try a few deep boxes and maybe even a shallow style. KK From: Keith & Sandy Kridler [mailto:txbluebirder"at"sbcglobal.net] You don't actually have to start out with a larger nestbox to try two entrance holes! I believe that deeper and larger floor areas ARE better but you can add a back door to most nestboxes with a cordless drill and a drill bit. I personally believe after watching bluebirds enter and exit three holed nestboxes (one hole per side) that "some" of them prefer to enter their nestbox from one direction and leave the box in another. From: lviolett [mailto:lviolett"at"earthlink.net] I would NOT recommend adding entrance holes to different sides of nestboxes because it would prevent monitors from turning boxes away from wind and water. The Bluebird Monitor's Guide says "On hot days, an extra hole would increase the ventilation, but in colder parts of the continent, an extra hole would just make a box draffy and chilly." From: lviolett [mailto:lviolett"at"earthlink.net] Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 2:35 AM Subject: Re: Kinney TRES box Thanks, Bet, for sharing the link to Henry Kinney's 4-Holed Swallow box. (see http://www.sialis.org/kinney.htm) More folks are starting to understand the benefits of multiple (useable) holes on the same side of the box and it looks like some good species-specific designs are being developed. Henry's floor space also seems much larger than a standard box and it is not surprising that Henry finds more Swallows fledge from his 4-holed box compared to standard 1-holed boxes. .... Linda Violett [Note from webmaster: Also see discussions under House Sparrow Attacks.] From: Lawrence Herbert [mailto:lherbert"at"4state.com] Bluebirdsters - I use passive control and have done so for years. I don't have a lot of trouble with HOSP. I would MOVE the boxes farther out in the country if I did. I'm not against trapping, but I have even less time now since retirement than when working! The one program that I would change if I had to do over would be to use TWO holes instead of one. It makes sense that it would work. If nothing else it would be increased ventilation. Good bluebirding, Larry H. Joplin (southwest) MO. From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com] Larry, cross ventilation sucks the air from the box. Two holes side by side do not do that. If it were so, we would only have to put the vent holes on one side of the nestbox, not both sides. Linda says vent holes can be put in the boxes and that should be included in the information. I think she objected to a hole on one side and a hole on the other if my memory serves me right. Evelyn P.S. Vent holes are made right up under the roof (heat rises). LBBS is making the vent holes larger and using 12 x 12 roofs for protection against rain and sun in those conditions. We are also fortunate to find the true 1 inch Cypress lumber and it is rough on both sides. These boxes are truly fine. From: Lawrence Herbert [mailto:lherbert"at"4state.com] Yes, I understand that. My plan would have been two holes on the same side. I'm glad that you mentioned that. Thanks Evelyn for clarifying that issue. Anecdotal only but increased ventilation is not a bad thing in second and third nests, but may be tough on the first set at times here in central US. From: Keith & Sandy Kridler [mailto:txbluebirder"at"sbcglobal.net] Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas Over the years and even today, MANY children, wannabe carpenters and fancy birdhouse builders will build nestboxes with at LEAST one entrance hole on every wall of the birdhouse. A man down in Tyler Texas was using three compartment nestboxes for the Southern Flying Squirrels back in the 1930's/40's. Picture a three story tall bluebird nestbox with an entrance in the top compartment and one entrance/exit in the bottom compartment. This allowed the adult squirrels to exit the apartment building type nestbox since he cut escape holes through all the compartment floors. Thus when a snake entered one compartment it could not block the other entrance/exit hole. Linda is doing GREAT work and doing a GREAT job at documenting what she is encountering on her trail. We are mulling over the issue of just how much GOOD we are doing as monitors. This is ACTUALLY pretty easy to figure at a large urban park or at a large farm where you have just installed nestboxes. Back in the 1980's we had several large bluebird trails in East Texas connected to mine. They were wagon wheel spoke type trails with nestboxes scattered along roadsides that covered an area larger than some of the New England states. Due to an over zealous Boy Scout drilling entrance holes during a nestbox building event for Robert McKinney. Robert ended up with 50 or 60 brand new nestboxes with three entrance holes, one in the front and one in each side. I will try to find the articles and copy them to the list that he wrote about these boxes and what he observed over the years that they were used. Later he actually made more of these boxes on purpose for his trails that were 4&3/4"X4&3/4" square bottom nestboxes. The gist of the matter was that yes bluebirds used them but that House Sparrows also used them. Even though there were three escape holes there were still some bluebirds killed in these nestboxes. I will have to go measure one of them as I still have one left up here at my house but I think this batch had floors 4"x5&1/2". NOT quite the same as the boxes Linda V. is using. Back then the trails were so large that none of us did much House Sparrow trapping, but we removed the sparrow nests every 7>14 days while monitoring. I HONESTLY do not know what goes on in a nestbox when a House Sparrow attacks a native cavity nester!!! Until we get HUNDREDS of video of hundreds of these fights to the death we REALLY won't know if either of these species actually turn tail and try to escape. There is a video out there of Mountain Bluebirds where two pairs of these bluebirds fought for over 30 minutes outside the nestbox and neither pair would give up the territory surrounding this nestbox. They almost fought to the death. KK From: lviolett [mailto:lviolett"at"earthlink.net] I had not intended to write yet again on the topic of 2-holed mansions but there are some fuzzy connections in Keith's post which may (while not His first couple of paragraphs open with a connection of multi-holed boxes as being the result of "children", "wannabe carpenters", and "fancy birdhouse builders" rather built as a thoughtful and deliberate approach to a trail problem. I'm sure the connection was unintentional but wanted to clarify that 2-holed mansions were specifically designed and created to provide a safer box for Bluebirds in HOSP-infested areas. And the intended results were and continue to be successful. Then he mentions multi-holed boxes for flying squirrels and snake attacks. Then my trail is mentioned with: "We are mulling over the issue of just how much GOOD we are doing as monitors. . ." and he provides a harm/vs/good formula. Again, I'm sure he did not intend to mislead readers into thinking 2-holed boxes had more losses than 1-holed trails where a formula would be necessary to determine whether boxes remain in place. My 2-holed trail is highly successful does not have the tragedies other monitors describe happening in 1-holed boxes. Then he goes BACK to thoughtless holes being drilled all over boxes by Boy Scouts and follows that with "The gist of the matter was that yes bluebirds used them but that House Sparrows also used them. Even though there were three escape holes there were still some bluebirds killed in these nestboxes." Now, if I were a new Bluebirder, Keith's post would certainly convince me NOT to try a 2-holer. Again, that probably was not his intent. Linda Violett From: Bob Walshaw [mailto:walshaw1"at"cox.net]
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 3:44 PM Subject: Re: HOSP Infested Trails I will give the house sparrow question one more shot and then will do my best to get off this difficult and divisive subject.
By early and diligent trapping I have created an approximately one mile square oasis and nearly house sparrow free area for Eastern Bluebirds and Carolina Chickadees, the birds that are most often victimized by the alien killer house sparrows.
If we estimate that the 19 male house sparrows that I have trapped would have each killed one family of Bluebirds and one family of Carolina Chickadees (probably a conservative estimate), trapping these 19 males has saved more than 200 Bluebirds and Chickadees. I can't even do the math to calculate the result of letting the 19 females live to raise several clutches of those killers. It is enough to keep in mind that for every male house sparrow that you allow to survive it dooms a number of other birds, and the result of allowing females to survive is what has resulted in the amazing growth of this species in the US and Canada. As Bluebirders and friends of small cavity nesters the overall problem is really beyond us, especially adding the problem of starlings taking the larger cavities, and the best we can do is to create an oasis here and there to help Bluebirds and other threatened species survive.
Somehow this all reminds me of the small boy who was walking along a beach throwing a few of the thousands of starfish stranded and dying at low tide back into the water. When asked how this could possibly make a difference, he said "It makes a difference to this one!" as he threw another back in.
Regarding the question of whether we put up nestboxes for our own enjoyment, yes, that is certainly part of the picture. However those who are familiar with the history of Bluebirds know that we nearly lost them years ago due to reduced habitats and nesting cavities and the introduction of the starling and the killer house sparrow, but that thousands of bluebirders erecting nestboxes has brought them back. It is a heartwarming success story.
We all work to have rat and mouse free homes. We need to have Bluebird nestboxes that are free of house sparrows, and trapping and eliminating them is the way to go. This includes in nestboxes and even with ground traps of you have a large population of them. No matter how many holes you have in a nestbox letting a house sparrow survive when you have the power to eliminate it is like letting a serial killer continue with his crimes because you feel that your family is in no danger Bluebird Bob, NE OK. From: Autumn L. Kruer [mailto:autumnk"at"iglou.com] Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 8:37 AM Subject: RE: HOSP "Way to Go" My question with the two-holed boxes: Does it stop the HOSP from pecking eggs or fledglings to death? They still can’t escape. If only the adults can escape and the HOSP can still take over the box, then I do not see how this overall benefits the bluebird population. It kind of sounds like it just keeps bluebirds on the run. Autumn From: Lynn Emerich [mailto:lemerich"at"epix.net] I live in SE PA and I have tried both the hanging and two hole boxes. Lynn near Bernville, PA From: lviolett [mailto:lviolett"at"earthlink.net]
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2007 12:21 PM Subject: Re: HOSP and box Placements One of the standard criteria for placing Bluebird boxes (regardless of the box design or number of holes) is that they be spaced approximately 300 feet (100 yards) from each other. This is to provide the approximately two acres forage they require per territory. Excess boxes within a two-acre Bluebird territory does not result in more Bluebirds. That should be evident. If an area is saturated with Bluebird boxes (closer than 300 feet on less than two acres forage), HOSP will eternally try to colonize the area just as they do in crevices of a tiled roof.
Bet has placed her test boxes in a clustered (saturated) formation thinking territories will fan outward from the clustered hub of boxes. Every one of the 2-holers has at least one other box within 300 feet. One of the test 2-holers is only 50 feet away from a homeowner's 1-holed box. The homeowner box cannot be moved, but the hanging 2-holer could be relocated or removed. As long as the boxes remain in that clustered format, I expect House Sparrows to eternally try to colonize those test boxes and be a hindrance to the success of that test trail.
If Bluebirds can avoid a fight with House Sparrows by moving to a vacant (extra) box within their 2-acre territory, they usually do so. And Bluebirds will even abandon eggs and babies in order to move to a vacant box to avoid HOSP conflicts. I have already tested various configurations. Here is what happens at clustered setups: http://home.earthlink.net/~lviolett/testmirada.html
But if 2-holers are spaced so that no box is closer than 300 feet from one another (including homeowner boxes), I expect Bluebirds to dominate the boxes (without any trapping) after the initial transition from 1-holers to 2-holers. See logs at: http://home.earthlink.net/~lviolett/conversion.html
Here is my web page of "Keys to Success": http://home.earthlink.net/~lviolett/keys.html
The 2-holed boxes Bet is using on the test trail came from my own workshop.
The spacing and placement is up to her.
Linda Violett
Yorba Linda, Calif.
From: Bet Zimmerman [mailto:ezdz"at"charter.net]
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2007 8:13 PM Subject: RE: HOSP and box Placements I do some pairing (20 feet apart) although not the 2 holers. Bluebirds are not the only birds I want to attract - I also get chickadees, Tree Swallows and Tufted Titmice.
Bet |
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