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Nestboxes (Multi-Holed) Part 1In addition to Messages that have appeared in the Bluebird Mailing Lists on this topic, the following are on the Audubon Society of Omaha website:
Subj: Re: a resend ... this time with no formatting Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. Last year I saw an article by Andrew Plaza in Scialia about a two-holed box he put up after he had a bluebird killed by a sparrow. He figured he would give them an escape hole. I don't pretend to know the details on why it works on my trail . . . but it does. I think it works like this: a bluebird wants the box and starts nesting, the sparrow thinks it has an easy mark by trapping the female in a 1-hole box. The female either gets scared and gives up the box or she is killed and the male relocates. With a two-hole, I think the female is building/nesting, the sparrow comes at a hole, female escapes and brings back dad to help her defend the box and now it's 2 against 1 (better odds for our bluebirds). I don't really know. All I know is that on my 40-box trail, no sparrow has taken a box from a bluebird pair this year. The two-holed box is just like any standard front-opening NABS box except instead of one hole centered in the front, it has two holes spaced across the front. With the front piece being about 5.5" to 6" across to give room to drill in two holes with about an inch at each side and another inch space in the middle between the holes. (After I drill the holes, I take fine sandpaper and smooth out the outside and inside sharp edges so it's more comfortable for our birds. I also build my boxes 7.5" to 8" from the bottom of the holes to the floor (about an inch deeper than NABS standard) because of starling beaks and hawks. I use hanging boxes so the only pests I have to worry about are other birds and insect pests. Now I have to figure out how to control the wren problem! Had my first pecked eggs this year. OtterCritter wrote: Okay, Linda ... you grabbed my attention ... what's this about the
Subj: two holed boxes/brown eggs Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant Texas two holed boxes: I like the idea of this type box but, Linda is mounting her boxes where usually the only predator is another bird (their quotes on tree mounting). If others are going to test a two holed box I would put the holes on opposite sides still allowing an extra exit and more ventilation and light entering a dark box. This way if a cat or coon is pawing around in an unguarded box (they should all be guarded) the birds will have a chance of escaping without flying right into the predators armpit or mouth. Robert Mckinney tested two and three holed boxes in our area during the early 80's (nearly all ideas have already been tried!) They work fine BUT as Linda's list of dates showed she had the most problems in JUNE with sparrows! When given the choice of boxes in my yard my three boxes with two holes have had three pairs of sparrows trapped out of two boxes. Bluebirds built in a house bored out with a 3&1/2" forstner style bit (supposedly way too small for bluebirds). And I "believe" that a bluebird defending it's nest does not attempt to flee the sparrow, I believe they simply defend to the death. nestbox cams may prove otherwise. This would be a good type of box to add to your 5 "yard" boxes! brown eggs/ There is a large variation in the color of bird eggs within a species! From light speckles to solid color is not unusual. I have a Carolina wren using an old bluebird box I made back in the 60's it is 6X6" By 4" deep. (See how boxes have changed!) Earlier this year I posted how seldom these wrens use boxes and this is the second pair in my yard this year! She has laid "very" dark eggs this time. Missing eggs: House sparrows, house wrens, and cowbirds all "peck" or break an egg in order to be able to remove it. How would a bluebird carry one of their own eggs from a box without breaking it? I startled a female very badly on a nest on day and in her haste to leave she slammed the eggs together "denting" one egg, three days later this egg was gone. I "believe" as it rotted she detected this and removed this cracked egg. Bluebirds can still lay thin shelled eggs which break during incubation. Bluebirds sitting on eggs for over a month can have them explode from the hydrogen sulfide build up in the egg. Chickens will often eat and fight over a broken egg. Some learn to break their own eggs to "recycle" the egg. Our bantam chickens loved to see me return from cleaning out sparrow nests!
Subj: 2-Hole Boxes Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. Because of the numerous requests from the List for more information on the 2-holed boxes, I'm sharing this with all and hope everyone's questions are addressed below (if not, ask me again). For those who apologized for being new, no need . . . I was brand new to this last year. Background my boxes with 2 holes: Last year I was lucky to have inherited a trail with 17 hanging boxes (love them!). Even though I didn't have to worry about ground-based predators, I still had sparrow takeovers (no BB kills). By the time my first season ended, I had witnessed so many horrible tragedies that I wondered if I was too sensitive to be a good box monitor. I knew I wanted larger boxes to ease the tragedies caused by overcrowded nestbox conditions plus, I read an article by Andrew Plaza in Sialia who had a sparrow attack. He was so upset he decided to provide two side-by-side holes on the face of the box to give the female a chance to escape. Sounded logical so that was the first change. Obviously, two 1.5" side-by-side holes wouldn't fit across a 4" box face, so my box faces were made 5.5" to 6" wide. The other floor dimension is about 4.5" to 5" front to back. There were also articles about predator birds snatching BB nestlings from boxes, so I wanted to build my boxes a little deeper from the bottom of the holes to the floor. NABS recommends 6.5" depth and I make my boxes 7.5" to 8" from the bottom of the holes to the floor. So I use lumber about 12" long (sides, back, front). To compensate for the deeper boxes and to encourage nestlings to climb about and fledge easier, I started putting toeholds all over the inside of the boxes (sides and back) in addition to under the front hole. To cool the boxes down, 1/2" vents were drilled on the upper sides at an angle so rain couldn't run into the boxes . . . plus I hoped the nestlings would use the toeholds to pull themselves up and peek down through the vents while others could look out of the face holes. So the vents were sanded smooth on the inside to prevent eye damage to the nestlings. These vents are covered with washers/nut/bolts during the winter (we have WEBB year round) and removed in summer/hot weather. Now, these are all the changes I made and my bluebirds have had 100% success in keeping their nestboxes from sparrows. And I don't know which change or combination of changes gives the advantage to the bluebirds. But here's some possible advantages of the deeper 2-holed design: * Deeper, larger boxes are cooler boxes * More room and opportunity for the nestlings to stretch and exercise * Two nestlings can sit in the holes and watch each other's first flight; * If a nestlings is sitting in one hole, parents can still feed others at the other hole * 2 holes might give an incubating female an avenue of escape * Wider boxes might help the longer wingspan of BB vs stubby sparrow wings * Parents feed nestlings quicker; they use one hole to enter and one to exit * Larger boxes mean less concentration of excrement per sq. inch * Deeper boxes are safer from jays, starlings Some of you have asked for statistics and I'll be glad to provide what I have . . . if I know more of what you would like. My trail was expanded to 40 boxes this year. Over 100 BB have fledged. My boxes are near houses with sparrow feeders . . . flocks of sparrows surround many of my box sites. Again, I don't know which change(s) to the design gives the bluebirds the advantage over sparrows but I like the results from all of these changes on my trail. Only a few full-size nestlings have been found dead in the boxes this year (a big difference from last year). Thanks to all who expressed an interest in trying out a box! I look forward to feedback on your results. Be sure to put your experimental 2-holed box at a site where you know a bluebird pair wants the box and has sparrow competition. Otherwise, the sparrows will get the box by default.
Subj: 2 Hole Boxes Dick Purvis, Anaheim CA Here are some additional comments about the dimensions of the 2 hole box. House Sparrows will use any box which is suitable for bluebirds although some designs might be somewhat more preferable to a sparrow than others. Sparrows kill adult bluebirds by entering the box above the bluebird and pecking out it's eyes, scalping it, and even penetrating the brain cavity. The bluebird is helpless because it can't manuever in a standard box since its wings are too long. The bluebird can't get out from under the sparrow. The sparrows short stubby wings allow it to maneuver very easily. The large dimensions of the 2 hole box allows the bluebird to escape from underneath the sparrow and the two holes allow it to exit the box easily. Two holes in a standard box might be marginally helpful but no more so than a slot entrance, for example. I believe that the large dimensions of the 2 hole box are more important than the two holes in protecting bluebirds. House Sparrows also often attack bluebirds and their nests with no intention of nesting there themselves. Even if the nestbox is not to their liking, they may destroy it anyway. There may be multiple sparrows involved in the attack - not just one or one pair. More tests need to be made, but preliminary results seem to favor the 2 hole box.
Subj: 2 Hole Boxes Dick Purvis, Anaheim CA Here are some additional comments about the dimensions of the 2 hole box. House Sparrows will use any box which is suitable for bluebirds although some designs might be somewhat more preferable to a sparrow than others. Sparrows kill adult bluebirds by entering the box above the bluebird and pecking out it's eyes, scalping it, and even penetrating the brain cavity. The bluebird is helpless because it can't manuever in a standard box since its wings are too long. The bluebird can't get out from under the sparrow. The sparrows short stubby wings allow it to maneuver very easily. The large dimensions of the 2 hole box allows the bluebird to escape from underneath the sparrow and the two holes allow it to exit the box easily. Two holes in a standard box might be marginally helpful but no more so than a slot entrance, for example. I believe that the large dimensions of the 2 hole box are more important than the two holes in protecting bluebirds. House Sparrows also often attack bluebirds and their nests with no intention of nesting there themselves. Even if the nestbox is not to their liking, they may destroy it anyway. There may be multiple sparrows involved in the attack - not just one or one pair. More tests need to be made, but preliminary results seem to favor the 2 hole box.
Subj: Re: 3 holes!? Subj: RE:3 holes Subj: Re:Sparrows vs 2 holes Subj: 2-holed boxes Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 08:41:21 -0700 Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif The effectiveness of larger/deeper mansions (both 1-holed and 2-holed) against sparrows continues to be confirmed by those using them. For those new to the List, background info is available at my web site:http://home.earthlink.net/~lviolett/ House sparrow problems nearly vanished on my 40-box trail after switching to large 2-holed mansions in 1999. At the same time, Dick Purvis was having terrible house sparrow problems at several of his nearby sites . . . to the point of removing the boxes. I asked if he would try a 2-holed mansion rather than removing more of his boxes. He agreed and hung the experimental 2-holed mansion at a sparrow problem site. Bluebirds built a nest and started egg-laying within a week and there after fledged. Since Dick thought the advantage was due to the larger box rather than the 2 holes, I asked if he would take three of my older styled 1-holed mansions and three of my newer 2-holed mansions to try on his trail for the 2000 season. He agreed and here are the results: Koch Park (1999, terrible house sparrow problems with standard boxes) Two 2-Holed Mansion in 2000: Bluebird nestings - no sparrow problems One 1-Holed Mansion in 2000: Bluebird nesting - no sparrow problems Amerige Park (1999, bluebird nestlings killed by sparrows in standard box) One 1-holed Mansion in 2000: Bluebird nestings (2) - no sparrow problems La Palma Park (1999 sparrows took over a bluebird nest and 2 other standard boxes) One 2-Holed Mansion in 2000: Sparrows took by default (no bluebird competition) One 1-Holed Mansion in 2000: Bluebirds Fledged, then sparrows nested PVC box in 2000: Sparrows took it over Standard box in 2000: Not used Note that the only time sparrows used a 2-holer was by default (no bluebird
competition). Note also that sparrows took 1-holer after the first bluebirds
fledged. Significant improvement for bluebirds over sparrows are shown in these
results just by offering larger/deeper boxes. And since a 1-holed mansion on
Purvis' trail was taken over by sparrows, it appears the 2nd hole offers an
extra plus for our bluebirds. My guess is that the success is an accumulation of
advantages from multiple features . . .bluebirds have the clear advantage in
holding these boxes from sparrows. The only exception to this on my trail has
been at paired sites . . .sparrows take one box and bluebirds take the other.
For a better overview, more people are needed to test them. Backyard bluebirders
who keep a steady watch on their boxes would be able to tell us exactly how the
bluebirds successfully hold these mansions against sparrows
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 13:29:14 -0800 (PST) Rob Yaksich Thank you all who responded to my 2-holed inquiry. I notice they have side-by-side entry holes, which is not at all what I had pictured. I thought things were more along the lines of a hole on each side of the house. Has anybody tried this type of house before, and if so, what were your results. I'm in the mood for experimenting, although now I wonder if this just gives the bears up along my mountain trails a better grip (ie, like a bowling ball). HA!! 76 glorious degrees here in 'burque under a mountain bluebird blue sky!!
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 17:47:13 -0700 Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. Photos of the 2-holed mansions can be seen at: I do not yet know why these boxes have been successful for western bluebirds in competition with house sparrows on my trail (answered prayers). From 1998 (sparrow problems) to 1999 (success), changes were: These boxes are only successful at single-box sites. If multiple boxes are offered in a tight area, bluebirds take one box (or move to an alternate) and sparrows take a box. An eastern bluebird monitor reported sparrows did evict bluebirds from 2-hole box on her trail and I've asked for photos and exact dimensions (pending) to see if I can identify any difference. It could be eastern bluebird vs. western bluebird or a difference in the box or site. Only a few other eastern bluebird monitors are testing them at single-box sites. In the past, I have referred to them as "experimental" boxes because I was afraid sparrows would learn how to take control of them. However, this is my third successful year using these boxes and my worst (historical) sparrow sites all have bluebird nests either under construction or holding bluebird eggs. The next step is to find out how to duplicate those results for others. Jordan Brooks wrote: Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 18:50:59 -0700 Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. As a comparison for my regular 2-hole mansion trail, I've recently acquired a standard NABS-style hanging trail. One NABS style box had a clutch of eggs with jays and crows hanging around the nestbox a couple of weeks ago. Because of my loss to jays last year, I felt the box was in trouble but didn't want to change to a deeper 2-holed box since I wanted to keep the standard NABS boxes as a comparison. So I simply put a wooden face guard over the hole. Following week, only 1 egg and 1 chick were left in the box. A crow would not leave the area. I clapped my hands at it and it wouldn't budge until I started yanking on the tree limbs. The NABS box was then changed to a deeper (8.5" hole-to-floor depth) 2-holed box. Next day, no jays or crows were around the nestbox tree, and again the following day. This box was the same age as a single parent site (originally 5 chicks, 1 starved), so I transferred one chick from the single parent box to this site. All went well so another foster chick was added later. Both the donor nest and the receiving nest benefited and all chicks, now 14 days, are thriving. So far this year, the deeper 2-hole mansion trail is having a 90%+ hatch/fledge rate. Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 07:52:04 -0500 Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas Linda wrote: "During 2000 and 2001, not a single chick or adult bird has OK to be "scientific" and not skew the results we have to be squeaky clean and include all known losses. In this style nestbox and variations there of no matter who put up the boxes or where they were located! My results with three two holed boxes in my front yard in year 2000 that were 4.75" x4.75" square bottomed with entrance hole 7" off the bottom showed I lost both attempts by bluebirds that tried to nest in them. Both losses were total as all young were killed in the first nest and then all eggs were thrown out the second attempt. Three complete pairs of house sparrows were trapped before, during or after these attacks so in effect I skewed this research by removing a competing species that seemed to "prefer" this nestbox. True research would not allow me to do this sort of manipulation for at least five years! You cannot have "scientific" sparrow research if you remove a pair of sparrows like I did to get the bluebirds to nest in the first place! All three pairs of sparrows had their primary wing feathers trimmed and they were released here at my house so that if they showed back up at the boxes they would need a ladder to get there. (For those releasing sparrows to large cities you might want to trim 2 primaries on each wing and if retrapped at your boxes then you know you didn't carry them far enough away! They can fly fairly normally with two gone or even three off of each wing.) I did have a Carolina wren build and be successful raising young in a two holed box in 2000. Now 2001 I have removed (trapped and trimmed) 10 pairs of house sparrows from two, two holed nestboxes out of the three I have in the same locations as last year. I removed two pairs of sparrows from one and then had a successful nesting of bluebirds. Two days after fledging the bluebirds, house sparrows took over the cleaned out box and laid eggs. During incubation by the sparrows, fights broke out between the returning bluebirds wanting the box. After four days of fighting the bluebirds abandoned their efforts. I trapped out two pairs of sparrows in two of these style boxes and the bluebirds immediately choose another two holed box 100 feet plus away from the original and now have eggs. I currently have three active nests of eastern bluebirds with eggs in my yard (2&1/2 acres) so even though this is high house sparrow area it is also a high bluebird area. This is not counting other bluebirds across the fences in the nearby pastures! We need to know the numbers of others using two holed boxes across the country and what loses have occurred and how many sparrows were removed. In theory the two holed boxes should allow bluebirds to escape but so should slot boxes and bluebirds are killed in them! In theory the rat snake found in the tree hanging, two holed mansion in Carolina should not have had a bluebird in it's stomach but it did. Theories and small scale research is only as good as the data collected. When data is withheld for ANY reason then you end up with a theory that sounds like scientific research but will become a myth. I am VERY tired of myths that will live forever on web pages and in print! House sparrows have been in New York for 150 bird generations. Starlings for 100 generations. Starlings have been in California for 50 generations and sparrows for possibly 100 generations. We are dealing with two different species of bluebirds competing with birds of vastly different amounts of evolution behind them! These birds look the same as they did 100 years ago. People look the same as they did 100 years ago. Do you have the skills to survive if you were dropped back in time on a subsistence farm in 1900? We evolve without even noticing it! KK Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 14:07:02 -0400 -----Original Message----- Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas ... I can report on some of the two-hole boxes in Michigan. I have one of Linda's two-hole boxes and some of the other Bluebirders in Michigan Bluebird Recovery Project received the boxes from me. In 2000 I had Bluebirds look at the two-hole box but go to the old bluebird box. Black-cap Chickadees made a nest in the two-hole box and the House Sparrows made a nest on top of it. I removed the two nests. The chickadees made a new nest and had five eggs. I saw the male sparrow go in one of the holes and the female go in the other hole, so the chickadee could not get of the box. I could not get to the box in time, chickadee was killed. I put a trap in the box and male sparrow got in the trap. No birds used the two-hole anymore in 2000. In 2001 Bluebirds, Chickadees and Downy Woodpeckers looked at the two-hole, but did not use it. All have nest in old boxes and are doing good. I moved the two-hole box to new loc., but no one is using it. The others in MBRP report the same thing about the two-hole boxes. The two-hole boxes work for Linda, but not for us in Michigan. All loc. for not the same. Maynard Sumner Flint, Michigan NABS OBS MBRP OBC NAHC NAFC Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 12:48:50 -0700 Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. Thanks, Keith, for taking the time to report your results with 2-holed boxes and sparrows. This is the type of feedback necessary to get a handle on what works and what doesn't. And, yes, we need to hear from every person trying the 2-holed mansions this year at *single-box* sites. Because Keith gives so much to us via this List, I sent him an early version of my 2-holed box to try in 1999 after my initial success with them (the 2-holed mansions are still evolving and this year they are even deeper). I believe that early 1999 box would have been closer to 5.5" wide and 7.5" hole-to-floor. Is that right, Keith? The results you just provided are for 4.75" x 4.75" with a 7" hole-to-floor drop. To get scientific data results, we need to duplicate conditions as closely as possible and also identify any variables which might skew the results. We already know 2-holed boxes in paired/saturated sites allow sparrows to move in and bluebirds will move to an alternate box rather than fight the sparrows. I believe Keith's report includes 2-holed results at paired/saturated sites--those conditions will almost guaranty failure with 2-holed boxes (this information is already documented and available on my web page: http://home.earthlink.net/~lviolett/) Therefore, Keith, would you please confirm the dimensions of the early 1999 version of the 2-holed box I gave to you and report on only 2-holed boxes that are at single-box sites (no paired/saturated site data). This will provide the beginning data we need to see if we can determine the essential box and site features to help duplicate my good results on other trails with house sparrow problems. Thanks for getting the ball rolling, Keith. Keith & Sandy Kridler wrote: ... Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 13:04:01 -0700 Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. Thank you Maynard, could you please report whether your 2-holed boxes were at paired/saturated sites because one of the keys for the success of the 2-holed box is that it is *not* offered with any other bluebird box. I believe you received a free early 1999 version of the 2-holed box from me. Could you please confirm whether that box and the others included in your report were at a single-box sites? Maynard Sumner wrote: ... Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 16:54:34 EDT Hello Linda and Everyone, Laura, Marlborough, CT Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 16:56:51 EDT Sorry Linda and all, Laura, Marlborough, CT Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 20:09:08 -0400 (EDT) Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. Thank you! Laura Sue! for giving the dimensions (mansion size) and site conditions (single-box site, etc.) of your 2-holed box locations. Your inclusion of last year's sparrow history using standard NABS boxes was excellent backup. This is exactly the format needed for these 2-hole mansion reports! Keep 'em coming. Only those with 2-hole mansions at single-box sites need to report since we already know multiple-box sites won't work. LauraSue14"at"aol.com wrote: Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 22:54:27 -0400 Yes, all were at single-box sites. Maynard Flint, Michigan NABS OBS MBRP NAHC NAFC -----Original Message----- Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. ... Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 20:42:47 -0700 Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. OK, Maynard reports no bluebirds were interested in his 2-holers Year 2000: Bluebirds vs Sparrows = No contest We need more reports; we need bluebird vs sparrow results. Maynard Sumner wrote: Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 08:41:14 -0400 For what it's worth, we put up a two-holed roosting box this winter. No one used it til this spring when two white-breasted nuthatches have claimed it for their nest. I did see the male eastern bluebird look in it yesterday but was chased away by the parents. Charlotte
Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 07:48:13 -0500 Linda Violett wrote: Thank you Maynard, could you please report whether your 2-holed boxes were at paired/saturated sites because one of the keys for the success of the 2-holed box is that it is *not* offered with any other bluebird box. We may be opening a can of worms with this as we cannot even define the distance between paired nestboxes in Minnesota and Wisconsin! I consider a saturated site as two or more nestboxes within 15 feet of each other. There are more than15 natural cavities that I know of on five acres here at my house. Am I saturated with cavities before I even place a nestbox or do these even count since I can't check them? All of my two holed nestboxes are separated by a street, road or vegetation from each other and I consider this appropriate spacing. We did fairly extensive testing with two and three entrance holed boxes in Northeast Texas in the late 1980's and I still had three of them up here at the house last year along with the three newer ones I added in 2000. Linda, you are going to have to draw up a survey form spelling out all of the parameters that are acceptable. This way we can compare apples to apples and not get incomplete data. I really do like the idea of two holed boxes but 20 years of testing a smaller version showed no real advantages. Square inch of floor space is needed, depth of box, size of entrance, thickness of box. Distance between boxes etc. Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant Texas
Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 06:48:36 -0700 Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. Keith, a single-box site is one bluebird-sized nest box/gourd/cavity per standard nesting site (2 acres of forage). You mention that you have tested a small version of the 2-holed box (unsuccessfully) for 20 years. Your last report outlining the failure of your "2-holed boxes" specified a small 2-holed box (4.75 x 4.75). Obviously, smaller 2-holed boxes do not work. Have you tried a 2-holed mansion at a single-box site? If so, that is the data we need. The only reason for sharing my successes using 2-holed mansions is that my house sparrow problems were solved on my trail when I started experimenting with them. It was my hope this sharing of information would help solve others' sparrow problems. Quite frankly, I've been rather surprised by the lack of participation, and/or outright hostility from some, regarding the 2-holed mansion concept or the fact that I am sharing my success using them. My house sparrow problems have been solved in a sparrow-infested area using 2-holed mansions at single-box sites . . . should I now sit back silently with a smug smile while I read of bluebird/sparrow disasters? In my posts, on my web page, it is repeatedly pointed out that I don't know which combination of site factor(s) or box feature(s) have caused this success. Keith & Sandy Kridler wrote: We may be opening a can of worms with this as we cannot even define the
Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 22:31:38 -0500 Linda Violett [responding to K. Kridler] - Yorba Linda, Calif. snip Quite frankly, I've been rather surprised by the lack of participation,
and/or outright hostility snip Linda - I hope I can put a handle on this that might help us all. To question something is not to express hostility - it is simply to question. Those of us that have been hardened by years and years on the bluebird trail bring a lot of skepticism to this list. Mostly, because we've often seen our own best theories and suppositions shot down more than once. Ten and fifteen years ago, you could go to bluebird meetings and spend hours and hours discussing what was the "best nestbox." Today, we know that the answer to that question is whatever bluebirds successfully nest in Right? (I used to take pleasure in going to these meetings to advocate for natural cavitiies.) You feel that "2-hole mansions" have solved the House sparrow problems on your trail. How many years of observations in that based on? I'm not being "hostile" - I'm asking you an honest question. When I first starting bluebirding on our Iowa farm (1961), House sparrows didn't nest beyond a quarter-mile from any farmstead. Slowly, that changed. Now I've got House sparrows that nest over a mile from any farmstead (and also, popular wisdom be damned, House wrens that nest over a mile from any brush or undergrowth!). And why "mansions"? Can't they just be nestboxes? What makes them mansions? You shouldn't have any difficulty in understanding how anecdote can become established fact; as we're now seeing it with "claim straws" - which was something that you originated. I asked last winter that you consider putting this up against some scientific testing, but all I heard back was that you'd put stuff up on "your" website. Scientifically, that doesn't cut it - no matter how many listers chime in to pat you on the back. I'm glad you have joined us in this hard and difficult project - of conserving bird species. I think you folks in CA also might just have discovered a whole new paradigm - with your hanging houses (and that speaks negatively to my own inertia, of how hard it is for me to accept and try this concept). But when I, or anyone else, challenges you on these things, it isn't personal - it's just to get closer to what can be verified. And, as needs to be pointed out to everyone on this list - that can vary across the length and breadth of a vast continent. Jim Walters james-walters"at"uiowa.edu
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 16:25:07 -0400 Hi Linda and Bluebird friends, from Karen Unruh I just wanted to let you know that my 6 Tree Swallow (TRES) nestlings flew out of their nest in my 2 holed box (made by Betty Nichols' son-in law) Sunday morning. I actually saw the last one leave while I had my camera ready! It was so exciting...I have never seen a nestling on fledgling day - actually take its' maiden flight. They were SO CUTE before the last few days. Both holes were filled up with 2 tree swallow nestlings at a time. And the nestlings would hang far out of both holes and look at each other! You know how the nestlings like to hang so far out all the time. The parents didn't seem to prefer one or the other hole as enter-exit only. Just as I thought they had picked the left hole for enter only, they would go in the right hole! Go figure! Anyway I also have a slotted entrance box only 20 feet away being used by my Eastern Bluebirds (EABL) and they are on their second clutch about 5 days old. . If you remember, I am in an end-unit townhouse with only 10-20 feet of yard on each side of my house. So not really ideal space, but they seen tolike it OK. I did trap a house sparrow inside the 2 - holed box after the TRES had started that nest. No HOSP has even gone near the slotted entrance box (that I have seen). At that time, earlier in the year, the TRES parents and the EABL parents were dive bombing the HOSP, but to no avail. The TRES kind of looked like they gave up, before I could get the Huber trap set. (So if that were to happen on a trail, where I couldn't watch all the time, the HOSPS would have probably won.) It took 90 minutes from the time I installed the trap for the male HOSP to re-enter the box, because the Huber trap does not fit the 2 holed box correctly. The HOSP can see part of the trap inside the box as he sits getting ready to enter. After the male was trapped, I removed what nesting material they had dragged in and the TRES shortly took back the nest! Anyway, a long time ago you had asked to let you know how the nestlings fared in the 2 holed box. A-OK! I think I remember the discussion on this List about pairing the 2 hole with another box, and I think you said it usually wasn't successful. In my yard, anyway I'd say it is successful! I am so happpy with this box. I tell a lot of people about this design and why it is good. The measurements of this box are : 4 1/2" X 5 1/2" floor. The distance from hole to floor is 6 1/2". There are 6 different deep scratch marks on the inside of the front piece to aid the nestlings in fledging the box. I don't have blue jays or snakes or raccoons though in this housing development with hardly any nearby tall trees. As yet, I do not have a predator guard on the 3/4 inch conduit pole. I am hoping the EABL's use this box for their 3rd clutch of the year! If you have any other questions about this, please ask. Karen Unruh ********************** ******************* ****************** Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 10:46:48 EDT Dear Linda: I did have a successful fledging of four baby bluebirds from your two-hole
mansion on May 24. The parents have renested and there are three eggs in the 1. Location of mansion (middle of my yard with no surrounding trees and
mounted on a pipe. Thank you for all that you do for the bluebirds! Karen Kaylor Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 23:21:34 EDT Kathy Clark, New Cumberland, PA Hi Linda, Karen and all :) I'm sorry for taking long to answer. My hanging trail is not doing very well this year. I have most where I did last year and did fledge one nest of bluebirds thus far. Today I returned to that site expecting the birds to have fledged and upon approaching saw the female peering out the box. Worst case was there were two nests as I hadn't gotten back there at my regular time and expected if it was used to see double nest. Well I did but this was odd. She had her nest on the right side me looking in and had 4 eggs. Her dead mate was on the left side of the box. I don't say I know what happened to him at all right now. I will show him to Keith and some others this week out at NABS.. just to see what they think. Mom was fine and on four eggs so he couldn't be gone that long. Down the road
about a football field away was a HOSP in my second hanging box with In another location I had a hanging box there. A HOSP took it from a bluebird with eggs. Then I ripped that out. Next check there was a TRES in it with eggs. I hung a second one there. The HOSP took that one and the TRES are fine so far and about the fledge. I'm going to let them fledge and then do in the HOSP nest.. sorry i am. Last year this site had two BB attempts and lost both to HOSP. Normally I don't have many HOSP where my trails are. This is new territory and no other boxes are there as far as I can see/tell. At another location I had just one box. It had a HOSP in it. I took it down as well as another. I'm busy and won't continually rip out HOSP nests which is what I've been doing this year alot. I had chickadees in a few of these but none came to even hatching. The HOSP got them all. The one that is successfull is again doing well with just mom now and dad is
no more. This is the best site. The other site was too but always had HOSP In the city where we saw bluebirds on site and there are no nest boxes not even a HOSP has used one and wrens only 2 times. No activity in the city.. go figure. If you have comments Linda please write me directly. I don't say I know the
answers. These are your original drawings like the one you had sent me Thanks.. Kathy Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 09:56:28 -0400 (EDT) On Wed, 11 Jul 2001, Keith & Sandy Kridler wrote: You are not including two holed boxes that are being tested this year in My two holed boxes (deep NABS with large roofs, hanging, not Mansions) *have*
been used this year (and last) by bluebirds. But HOSPs are not a Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 16:00:41 -0700 Barry, what is the exact size(s) of the deeper and larger 2-hole boxes you are using? I thought you were using full mansion dimensions. Linda Violett Barry Whitney wrote: Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 04:26:54 -0400 Hello Linda and all, The tree branch hanging nest box which Linda Violett uses in California for Western Bluebirds has been used on an experimental basis for two or three seasons by Bluebird-L list members in the Eastern Unites States for Eastern Bluebirds. I would like to know how this experiment is proceeding and ask for your help
in determining what the prognosis for this nest box mounting method and nest First, are any of you that have used these tree hanging nest boxes in the Eastern United States anticipating increasing the number of hanging nest boxes on your trail more than you plan to increase the number of standard pole mounted nest boxes on your trail? If your answer is yes or no, please explain the reasoning behind your plans. Second, for those of you that have used these tree hanging nest boxes, if you had a friend that wanted a new and successful bluebird trail, would you recommend pole mounting nest boxes or tree hanging nest boxes as the primary mounting system to be used? If you are one of those that experimented with one or more of these hanging nest boxes, please write me off list indicating the following: 1) number of hanging boxes used each season 2) number of Eastern Bluebirds fledged from hanging boxes 3) number of other native cavity nesting birds and the species name that fledged from hanging boxes 4) number of nest attempts failed from hanging boxes and a description of these failures including predators and a description of the experience 5) number of house sparrow nests in hanging nest boxes 6) number of pole mounted nest boxes used each season 7) number of Eastern Bluebirds fledged from pole mounted nest boxes 8) number of other native cavity nesting birds and the species name that fledged from pole mounted boxes 9) number of house sparrow nests in pole mounted boxes I would appreciate a response from all of you that have used one or more of these boxes so I can draw some reasonable conclusions about how this experiment is going. If Linda or any one else has accumulated any data from this experiment I would like to see this as well. Thank you, Gary Springer Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 00:46:37 -0700 Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. Here in hot So. Calif., nesting winds down during late June and is basically over by the end of July. Sometimes there is an odd box or two that fledges during the first few days of August, but during this after-season timeframe, I mosey around the trail observing the new families but rarely open a box. There's never been more than two successful clutches of bluebirds per site per season on my trail, so after the second clutch fledges from a site, that's it for the season. But this weekend (8/19), at a site which had fledged two bluebird clutches (no house sparrow problems) I was shocked to find newly-hatched house sparrows in a 2-hole box. (see photo by scrolling near the bottom of: http://home.earthlink.net/~lviolett/otherbirds.html). The fact that sparrows can use vacated (unchallenged) 2-hole boxes goes without saying. But why so late? A similar situation occurred on my mountain trail this week. This has never occurred on my trail during August; the expected fledge date would be mid-September--very strange timing for our area. From: "Maynard Sumner" msumner6"at"home.com Linda, I would like to let you know we will be testing the two-hole mansions at four sites in Michigan. I think the two-hole is a good box. It will not work hanging in a tree in Michigan, so we are putting them on posts. Maynard Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 23:26:04 -0800 Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. Maynard, you were sent one of my original 2-holed mansions on July 6, 1999. You recently reported to Bluebird-L (May 28, 2001) that no bluebirds have been interested in your 2-holer and that others in Michigan had the same results. You described how you saw two sparrows (male and female) blocked both holes to trap and kill a nesting chickadee and concluded your two-year summary report by stating, "The two-hole boxes work for Linda, but not for us in Michigan." Has there been a recent change in your area (Michigan) which causes you to hope for different results in 2002? Linda Maynard Sumner wrote: Linda,
From: "Maynard Sumner" msumner6"at"home.com The only change is we are going to try putting them on post and not hang them in tree.I think it is the hanging them in trees the Bluebirds do not like in Michigan. Maynard Sumner NABS MBS GAS OBS OBC NAHC NAFC Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Violett" lviolett"at"earthlink.net ...
Nestboxes (Multi-Holed) Part 2 |
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