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Nestboxes (Mounting Height)In addition to Messages that have appeared in the Bluebird Mailing Lists on this topic, the following are on the Audubon Society of Omaha website: Subj: Re: bb box height Just for what it's worth: The key to ANY successful bluebirding is the monitoring of the nest box on a periodic/regular basis. Anything which serves as an impediment to that (i.e. the need to carry around a stepladder to get into position for monitoring) is, in my opinion, counter-productive to that mission. The successful bluebirders in my experience are those who mount their boxes at eye level for ease of monitoring. The mounting height has to do with who is doing the monitoring and nothing to do with who is being monitored. Amen From: Haleya Priest haleyapriest"at"hotmail.com
Subj: Nestbox Height Dick Purvis, Anaheim CA All of my nestboxes are mounted from 16 to 30 feet high. I have about 400 boxes and several years of data so my results are significant. The bluebirds prefer the higher boxes in every test that I am aware of. I get about 90% usage of my boxes by bluebirds. I believe that the bluebirds prefer them because they feel more secure than in lower boxes. The widely publicized five to six feet height is for the convenience of people not because birds need them. This is logical since in the wild bluebirds usually use old woodpecker holes. Most of these are 16 feet or higher although sometimes there is a low one. Many are very high indeed. Of course, you cannot mount boxes high unless you use the hanging box system. Carrying a ladder around is much too laborious. With my lifter, I can monitor just as easily as one does on five foot high boxes. I can say definitively that height does not deter house wrens in any way. The only deterrence is to place your boxes far out in the open where there are no house wrens. I believe that house sparrows may prefer higher boxes. They are warier than bluebirds and may feel more secure in high boxes. However, like bluebirds and house wrens, they will use any height box.
Subj: Nestbox
height ? Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 04:16:27 -0500 I believe it is just coincidence that you haven't seen your bluebirds inspecting the nest box since you moved it onto a taller pole. The Eastern Bluebirds here in North Georgia investigate nest boxes periodically and unpredictably. I also do not believe putting a nest box up 8 feet effects the bluebirds in any way except it makes them safer from predators that try to climb the pole. I began putting all of my nest boxes up at least 8 feet last year. In my yard there are two bluebirds beginning nest building in nest boxes
paired one 6 foot high and one up more than 8 feet. Both have selected the I also have 5 chickadee nests and all of them selected the taller poles. These weren't obviously paired but they had lower nest boxes in the immediate vacinity they could have selected. And, last year was the first year in 12 that tufted titmice nested in my nest
boxes. There were two successful fledges, both from nest boxes up more Gary Springer Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 06:37:11 -0500 It is generally accepted practice to mount bluebird nest boxes at the eye level of the monitor along with providing reliable predator protection. However, personal preferences do vary. Before everyone runs out and buys a step ladder so as to be able to monitor boxes at an eight foot height, may I suggest that a trip to the BLUEBIRD-L REFERENCE GUIDE [REFGUIDE] MAY BE IN ORDER. Jim McLochlin, in Best of Bluebird-L Classified, presents a thorough review of information on mounting heights and related matters. You can get to the REFGUIDE on the Internet by going to: http://www.crosswinds.net/~bluebirdguide/ or http://birds.cornell.edu/bluebirds Increased nest box mounting height does not constitute, by itself, adequate predator protection. Please do not let someone else's PERSONAL PREFERENCE influence your decision-making with regard to this very important aspect of bluebird trail management.Dean Sheldon, Huron County, OH [just south of Lake Erie] Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 13:23:41 EST Hello Everyone, boxes up 8 feet: Gilbertson boxes: Feeding Blues: The Blues are checking out nest boxes, but no evidence of nesting yet. The weather in the Northeast is a BIT cool yet! Have a great day! Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 14:40:59 -0400 I should have noted in my last post regarding nest boxes on my property that all nest boxes mounted only 6 feet high in which the bluebirds and other species nested last year are still in place. But, all nests of all species of birds this year are in nest boxes mounted 8 feet. Further, this year, no birds of any species are nesting in the boxes mounted only 6 feet high. I also experienced the same results at the only other part of my trail where there are mixed 6 foot and 8 foot nest box mounting heights. Also, I did not measure the height of the nest boxes with a yard stick. All of the nest boxes described as being mounted "8 feet" were mounted using
a full ten foot length of one inch EMT pipe available at any Home Depot, Gary Springer PS A box full of Carolina wrens have fledged on what I believe is only the 12th or 13th day into the nestling phase. They fly with varying degrees of ability but none are proficient and one can barely get off the ground. I spotted one in the open lawn and caught it easily so I could release it in the safety of the nearby cedar trees where the others had gathered. I watched the last nestling fledge. If there was any danger that resulted in the apparently early fledge, I did not observe it. Yesterday the parents herded them around the property from cedar bush to cedar bush. Shortly before dark they lead them across the lawn and to the security offered by the underside of my back deck where at this hour they remain under constant assistance from both parents. The cold weather will be their friend as their biggest threat, black snakes, are less active in the unseasonably cold weather we are now experiencing. Low last night about 30, forecast 29 tonight. Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 15:40:17 -0400 To: The Constituency, Bruce Burdett, NH Bluebird Conspiracy, Sunapee NH Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 16:45:26 -0400 Gary Springer wrote: I should have noted in my last post regarding nest boxes on my property that Gary (and all), I had read in several places that bluebird boxes should be mounted around 5 to 6 feet high because any higher would attract house sparrows. Is that not true any more? VMS Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 17:51:05 -0400 V.M. Strauss wrote: " I had read in several places that bluebird boxes should be mounted around 5 to 6 feet high because any higher would attract house sparrows. Is that not true any more?" My answer is that it never was true, even though an often quoted and well known birder and a few believers are spreading the theory. Based on the writings of the most experienced birders on this list, if there are house sparrows in your area they will be attracted to your nest boxes even if you mount them far too low to provide any reasonable amount of protection from predators that roam the eastern United States. My answer to the House Sparrow problem is to take a short ride out of the city or suburb, where there are house sparrows galore, and to put up nest boxes in open country away from buildings where you will rarely if ever see a house sparrow. Once there you can have a trail with a hundred boxes with little or no fuss with house sparrows. I've been told this is inappropriate because we have to draw the line somewhere or eventually there will be no more bluebirds. I agree we have to draw the line. But drawing the line isn't fighting house sparrows. To me, drawing the line is stopping the spread of "civilization" before every square inch of the planet is concrete or poluted water. Many birds and animals are much more threatened with extinction than bluebirds. If we bury our heads in the sand and blame the house sparrow on the decline of this species, we will lose many more species that are dizzzppearing to the real culprits. Because most people live in cities and suburbs, and because they want bluebirds in their yards, they are creating and observing just one of the many battle zones at the front where wilderness and human population meet. Having said that, I do have 8 nest boxes in a small town where there are plenty of house sparrows but none have bothered any of the bluebirds in the nest boxes I've set up 8 feet high. But, that doesn't mean I believe the added height deters house sparrows. It is quite possible that as I write house sparrows are taking over those nest boxes. But, I surely hope not. Gary Springer Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 19:42:42 -0700 Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. The height of my (hanging) boxes range from about 12 to 20 feet high. Sparrows will take over hanging boxes just as they will take over post-mounted boxes. Here in Orange County, California, 98% of our bluebird boxes hang in trees. Orange County is a very small territory in a very large state. Yet, we fledged 46% of California's reported total of western bluebirds last year with an average of 4.39 fledged per box and 3.51 fledged per try. A very good record. Note on sparrows: I've never trapped sparrows. My boxes hang in prime house sparrow habitat and there were sparrow problems on this trail in the past with standard 1-holed hanging boxes. My trail is now 2-holed hanging mansions and there have been no sparrow problems in any of my experimental 2-holed hanging mansions this year. But these experimental "mansions" cannot be offered with other "paired" box arrangements because sparrows will take the extra box. Last year, sparrows got a toehold on my trail only at sites with multiple boxes (bluebirds took one box, sparrows the other). Bluebirds have won the 2-holed mansions over sparrows 100% of the time at
every *SINGLE-BOX* site on my trail for the past three years. However, an
eastern bluebird monitor has reported that sparrows won a 2-holed mansion in
competition with eastern bluebirds . . . I do not know why there would be a
difference in results. Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 15:32:52 -0400 Hi All, I had a thought recently as I've read all the post about all the nesting activity. I've only been bluebirding for 5 years, but I remember even that short period ago, I was told bluebirds would only nest in "fence post" high nestboxes and it had to be near a large open area for food. Lately I've read about bluebirds nesting on 8' poles and hanging nest boxes. In addition, as far as feeding goes I have a 10 acre heavily wooded lot with an 18,000 sq. foot yard and I notice the bluebirds not only "hunt" the grassy area, but they frequently bring back bugs and little green catepillar thingy's from the woods. Maybe the bluebirds are adapting to change more than we think. This in no way means I think efforts to provide suitable nest boxes and habitat should be slowed in any way. This is just an observation from a rookie. Joyce, central Virginia
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 16:35:13 -0400 Joyce, et al, It would certainly be a mistake to say that Bluebirds will nest "ONLY" in fence-post high boxes. All my boxes are on round steel pipe poles, and are about 6' from grade. - eye-high for my gawky 6'6" frame. Linda V., out in CA, has all her houses hanging. I'm not certain how high they are hanging, but they work. My boxes are not "NEAR" a "large open area;" they are "IN" large open areas, about 100' from the nearest thickets, trees, brambles, etc. They do all their insect-hunting out in the open, and they regularly use the 'perching stakes' which I put up for them here and there. To me, "fence-post high" means about 4', and I think that's too low for comfort. Check with other Bluebirders in central VA, and learn what works for them. Bruce Burdett, NH Bluebird Conspiracy, Sunapee NH Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 17:03:02 -0500 At 04:45 PM 4/18/01 -0400, you wrote: Gary (and all), I had read in several places that bluebird boxes should be The 5 to 6 foot height is primarily for easy/safe monitoring. If a 5-foot nestbox height was unattractive to house sparrows, most of us on this list would not have sparrow problems. If only it were so! Kate Oschwald
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 14:36:02 -0700 Lonn in Roseburg, Oregon My nests are staggered from heights of 4 feet to 8 feet. The taller they like as well as ever from the return of WEBL's this year I've observed coming back. To the tallest first. The swallows are coming to nest again too, (VGSW). The swallows only annoy the Blues it seems as they get close and the Bluebirds take offense with their constant circling so close. The first pair I've observed nesting of WEBLs are packing the grass in the nest. I built a slight roof for the sunbeam of constant heat that I hear is going to be worse this year than last, I suppose. I would make it rain if I could dance. Other couples are here to choose their site soon hopefully. Don't know of many hunters on this list so I'll be wise. Someone in my family occurred home from work. "Gee, those 4 horned large game animals are heading our way." You know who you are Bigger than a deer but not a Moose. Must be Sumner, Elke. To me, "fence-post high" means about 4', and I think that's too low for comfort I came back from the 2 U2 concerts in the Northwest last week and stayed in-between at Champoeg State Park; where Bluebird restoration is strong. My observations: Many nest boxes throughout this large park and all poles greased; A yearly Prescott Bluebird Recovery assembly at the park coming in May (I may be there); A Bluebird Restoration Film at the Visitor Center and box-building plans (side-opening) in pamphlets; Much to be desired in the over-abundance of the English-European introduced species that seem to have followed Columbus. Yurtin for Certain. Another happy note: Dad and Mom saw Brother Kent and stopped for a while at my Uncle Pauls', infatuated with his designed commercial houses for birds, Mom looks and says, "You've got Bluebirds!", Yeah, I noticed there's some kind of birds around, says her brother. Well, he's got boxes for the decoration and got the whole idea of birding to the next omniscience's.
Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 19:19:43 -0400 I watched Carolina Chickadees fledge today. I've read and seen how dangerous it is for newly fledged chicks to land on the ground. Once on the ground it is almost impossible for them to gain flight, and, until they can climb up onto something from where they can take flight again, they are very vulnerable to predators. And, these predators could very well be circling like vultures because the chicks get extremely vocal immediately before and during the fledging process. The increased level of loud calling by the chicks is no doubt natures mechanism to help the parents keep track of the chicks as they fledge. It is also this increased loud calling that can easily be distinguished from the sound of adult birds for distances in excess of a hundred yards that serves as a dinner bell for predators like snakes and raccoons that result in quick meals when the nest box is mounted on trees in these predator's habitat. And, it is also why so many people under estimate the number of birds falling prey to predators from nest boxes mounted in trees here in the eastern part of the country where large black snakes, raccoons, and opossums spend the majority of their time during the summer months. All the evidence points to a successful fledge even though it is after this evidence is created that the predator heard the excitement around the box and came in for an easy meal Anyone watching these chickadees fledge today would realize how important it is to keep the nest box up more than 4 or 5 feet. They were incapable of gaining altitude on their maiden flights. They are also very unstable upon landing and one tumbled through the tree branches until it was successful in latching onto a much lower branch. I've seen bluebirds fledge that did gain twenty five or more feet in altitude but several of these also tumbled down through tree branches unable to land on the first attempt. Mounting a nest box a little higher on a greased metal pole not only puts them more out of reach of predators, but it also gives the bird a much better chance of making a landing in the safety of tree branches on its maiden flight. I personally think it is well worth the extra effort to carry a step ladder, or, to use telescopic mounting poles. Of course everyone has to balance their own physical limitations, willingness to expend effort and financial resources, and concern for the birds' success. Gary Springer Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 18:06:02 -0400 I'm now mounting many nest boxes even higher than eight and a half feet. This I do by driving a ten foot length of three quarter inch galvanized steel pipe into the ground, then sliding a ten foot length of one inch EMT electrical conduit over top of the first pipe in telescopic fashion. I've found a simple hose clamp works very well for holding the top pipe in place. The slots in the screw heads on these clamps are deep and wide so they are easy to use, and, I can set the height of the nest box anywhere from ten feet to 17 feet. Plus, I can change the height any time I want simply by placing the hose clamp higher or lower on the pole. The nice part of this system is there are no holes to drill or pipes to cut. The only parts needed are the two poles and a hose clamp. The only tools needed are a ladder, a screw driver and a sledge hammer. (The Quick Mount comes in handy too) Swimmers, boaters, and fisherman risk drowning. Bicyclists risk being run over by cars. Snow and water skiers risk death or maim. Motorcyclists risk mutilation and death. Pool players can get beaten up badly, even if they don't want to gamble. Hunters and target shooters risk being shot. Tennis players, basket ball players and joggers run the risk of carrying damaged and painful ankles and knees into old age. Many risk their fingers and eyes setting off fire works on the Fourth of July. Just about every thing else we do has an associated risk. More than a hundred thousand people get killed in car accidents each year yet most people would think nothing of jumping into a car and going on a weekend joy ride in the country, or worse, jumping into a car and cruising the city on a Friday night. Maybe it is more difficult to carry a ladder when monitoring and maybe it is 'risky' to put up nest boxes a few feet higher. But, I like not knowing what species will be in the next nest box I monitor. And, I like the extra safety the birds have when they are in boxes up more than 8 feet. Plus, I can avoid a lot of the risks mentioned two paragraphs up because I get a lot of my fun and exercise by carrying a ladder around helping birds have 'high' quality nesting sites that more closely resemble the cavities they used for hundreds of thousands of years before they had to 'lower' their standards, mostly because we forced them into it. Of course there is a middle ground between "eye level" and 10 or more feet that can be achieved by telescopic poles, and, I believe more and more folks are beginning to use these methods to the benefit of the birds. But, when I do something, I really like to do it in the most exciting and productive way, so , why cut the poles? Apparently, bluebirds are almost like wrens and will nest in just about anything with an inch and a half hole in it. What about the rest of the native cavity nesting species? Apparently some species are flying right past PVC pipes or wooden boxes with holes and mounted five feet high and don't even consider them nesting sites. Regarding the Red-Headed Woodpeckers Bad news: The previously reported eggs of the red-headed woodpecker and all the nest material were removed from the Chalet nest box in which these woodpeckers had nested. Awesome News: There are now Red-Headed woodpecker eggs in a second Chalet nest box mounted eight and a half feet high. Gary Springer PS Is anyone, or does anyone else know of other folks east of the Mississippi, other than Martin landlords, that are mounting nest boxes more than 8 feet high on metal poles? If you do, please let me know as I would like to communicate with them about the experiences they are having. Thank you. Writing from the foothills of the Appalachian Mountains in Northeast Georgia, further north than most of South Carolina and a bit of North Carolina. Most extensive source of Bluebird information http://audubon-omaha.org/bbbox/bestofbbml/bblindx.htm Real Bird Homes www.realbirdhomes.com
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 18:39:45 -0700 Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. That's the spirit, Gary. If you mount your boxes much higher, you might as well start hanging them in trees like we do in So. Calif. after you figure out how to outsmart your snakes. (And outsmarting tree snakes might be easier than lugging that ladder around your trail.) Gary Springer wrote: I'm now mounting many nest boxes even higher than eight and a half feet. ...
Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 09:23:13 -0700 (PDT) ... Gary, ===== Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 09:45:05 -0700 I'm not sure why my telescopic pipe system hasn't caught on. I regularly
mount a 4.5ft 3/4 in EMT pipe against a studded T fencepost (or wooden fence
post) and insert a 5 ft 1/2 in EMT inside it. An eighth-inch hole has been
drilled through both pipe 2-1/2 inches from the end. The standard box has been
attached to the top of the half inch pipe with carriage bolts and any lower
extension of the back of the nestbox removed. The box is 9 feet high when locked
in the upward position by a ringed roofing nail (the rings prevent it slipping
out). It's a simple matter to pull the nail, lower the box to eye level for No ladders! I couldn't monitor my 70-box trail if I had to carry a ladder; it's in rough country on a highway right-of-way. By the way, the material for two elevator poles costs less than $6. Hatch Graham Gary Springer wrote: I'm now mounting many nest boxes even higher than eight and a half feet. ... Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 09:51:39 -0700 PostScript to my last Message: One of the first Mountain Bluebird nests I ever saw was in a woodpecker hole
in a broken off snag about 4 feet off the ground. A Western Bluebird was Hatch Graham Gary Springer wrote: I'm now mounting many nest boxes even higher than eight and a half feet. ... Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 14:21:41 -0400 Hi Hatch, You wrote: One of the first Mountain Bluebird nests I ever saw was in a woodpecker hole And, as I previously wrote, Apparently, bluebirds are almost like wrens and will nest in just about Further, here in the east, based on my experience and the reports of other birders on this list, species other than bluebirds normally will not nest in places as low to the ground as bluebirds will. Would you please share with us the interior dimensions of your bluebird boxes and a list of species that have nested in your bluebird size nest boxes mounted 9 feet high, and, indicate if they are regularly or infrequently nesting on your trail in California? Thanks, Gary Springer ----- Original Message ----- ... Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 15:02:32 -0400 Hi Dan, You asked: "Gary, Have you considered using a 1" EMT conduit coupler instead of a hose clamp? " Yes, I have a nest box in my yard which I mounted using a coupler and I also had another coupler in my hand when I came to the conclusion the clamp was better. I forgot to slide the coupler over the first pole before adding the second pole and I didn't want to remove the top pole and nest box again. I had a hose clamp nearby so I used it instead. I am grateful that I did. First, I've used apparatus with set screw locking devices which is the basis for the coupler mechanism and I do not think they are as reliable as the hose clamp. After many uses of a screw locking device, the end of the screw becomes smooth and it can lose its effectiveness for holding the poles in place. I have also heard these couplers sometimes break. Second, the coupler screws are not long enough to make contact with the three quarter inch pole so one of the screws provided by the coupler manufacturer needs to be replaced with a longer screw. Third, I believe the larger head on the screw of the hose clamp is much easier to use and will remain easy to use longer than the smaller screw on the coupler, but with respect to longevity, only time will tell. Gary Springer From: "Gary Springer" springer"at"alltel.net Fawzi wrote: "As to the 3/4" EMT conduit, it is quite adequate for normal NABS style boxes." The mounting height is one of the most important factors when considering sway and required strength of mounting poles. If you are mounting boxes between four & a half and five & a half feet high Fawzi is right. But, if you intend to use the entire ten foot length or telescope another piece of pipe over top of it with the intention of putting a box up 8 or more feet, in my opinion the box sways excessively and it bends with minimal force. I think the one inch emt cost $3.65 for a ten foot length, or about a buck more than the three quarter inch. But, if the pole is to be pounded into the ground, the three quarter inch emt pole will rust out and fall down many years before the one inch emt pole because the one inch pole is not only of larger diameter but thicker steel as well. It will be interesting to see how many more years the one inch emt will last. By the way, I forgot to mention that I believe that if it is within your limitations to use a step ladder to monitor nest boxes, this is better than using telescopic poles. When monitoring I think it is best to disturb the nest as little as possible. When you disconnect the two telescopic poles and lower the box, there is a lot more disturbance than just opening the box. And, the type of disturbance might suggest to the birds experiencing movement of the entire box that the nest is in jeopardy. Sure, this won't matter in most cases. But I believe this extra disturbance will occasionally cause birds to fledge prematurely. And, there is no way to prevent a premature fledge when you're in the process of lowering the box. For me, it is a lot less hassle to put up a ladder than to mess with lowering and raising nest boxes. Before I found out how nice the hose clamp worked I mounted a box using the system that is now pictured in the Bluebird Monitors Guide on page 110. In almost two years I've only lowered that box twice and one of those times was a photo op. A ladder just works better. But, if you can not safely use or are not willing to put the extra effort into carrying a ladder, I believe the telescopic pole is far better than mounting nest boxes only as high as you can look into them while monitoring, which for most people is between 4.5 and 5.5 feet, a height easily accessible by cats. The pole system I prefer is to pound a 6 foot length of half inch galvanized steel pipe in the ground and slide the entire ten foot length of one inch emt pole over top of it and let the one inch pipe rest on the ground. That puts the nest box up ten feet, the highest box I can easily monitor with a ladder. If I could find three quarter inch thick rebar cheaper than the half inch pipe, I'd use that. But, so far I haven't. If ten feet is too high for you to monitor from a ladder, just make the one inch pole exactly the height that you feel comfortable with. The other way I mount boxes is to pound the entire ten foot length of one inch emt directly into the ground using a sledge hammer while covering the end of the pole with a block of wood so the pole is not damaged. That puts the box up about 8 and a half feet. To make pole installation easier using this simple method, cut a foot off the length and the final height will be about 7 and a half feet with no connecting hardware between the ground and the box to help predators on their way to the box. Not only is it more difficult for predators to reach a box mounted high as described, but it is much less likely some predators will locate the nest in the first place. Many predators rob nests at night and rely upon the scent of the birds in the box for detection. Wind carries the scent of a box mounted higher further away. The whitetail deer relies upon its nose for survival more than it does its eyes. Deer hunters foil this defense mechanism by hunting from elevated stands of 8 or more feet high and are able to watch deer walk around under their stands completely unaware of the hunters presence. The same principal applies to scent detection of birds in nest boxes by predators hunting at night. Gary Springer From: "Fawzi P. Emad femad <at> fpemad <dot> com If I were a bluebird I'd want to be in a house Gary built and nowhere else! I am sure of that. His houses have thick walls, well vented, attractive, and will last several lifecycles... and mounted on a very sturdy and tall post. Just a few reminders for Gary from me, Fawzi, who in reality is not a bluebird. Most of us are not as young as you are Gary, so it is not likely we would carry a ladder to inspect our boxes. Also, I doubt we would want to pound a 10' pole into the ground. It is too high for most of us, especially the ladies who in general are as short as I am (I am shorter than the average male...) So, most of us settle for boxes that will last ten instead of twenty years, and poles which will last the same time. We make up for our inability to do what young people do in many ways. In my case I often ask my son to pound the poles in the ground (he is tall and quite strong.) Another way we cope is to use whatever ability we have to continue to take care of the bluebirds anyway we can, even if it is not so perfect. Don't forget Gary to take notes in the meeting of NABS. I will not be able to attend, and I will depend on you and others to tell/show me how it went. Take lots of pictures if you can, pictures are a lot of fun to see: pictures of people, places, and so on. Fawzi Fawzi Emad in Laytonsville, Maryland Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 13:37:27 -0400 Ruth from Souderton, PA I am having a problem with HOSP's taking over one of my four nestboxes. The box had a partial Bluebird nest in it on Friday and the female Bluebird will not finish building the nest. The HOSP has been taking debris into the box. I have been trying to catch the HOSP with a trap but so far no luck. Today someone told me that HOSP do not like boxes that are at a HIGH level. Is this true, and if so, what is the lowest height that I can put my Bluebird boxes at? At this particular box, the middle of the opening is about 4ft. 5 in. from the ground. Any input on this theory? Also, should I remove the partial nest and hope that the female Bluebird will build another one or should I just leave it be for now? Thanks. From: hubertrap"at"webtv.net (Joe Huber) Hi Ruth, I would suggest doing what you are doing now. Trying to trap this male sparrow. Changing box height has little effect on deterring House sparrows. I had one box 27" off the ground that they tried to use every year. After trapping them this box has had Bluebirds, Chickadees, and Tufted Titmouse nests over the years. Removing the sparrow nesting material from the box will not discourage them. keep us posted as to what takes place. Joe Huber,Venice Fl. Charter member NABS, Charter member OBS, Life member OBS Joe Huber http://community.webtv.net/hubertrap/HOUSESPARROWCONTROL
http://community.webtv.net/hubertrap/RoostingBluebirds ... Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 13:05:52 -0700 Dear The Brinckmans and friends, Sounds to me like you have it at the right height (all my nest boxes are at 4.5 feet high from the base of the entry hole to the ground), but the question is how close is your nest box to your house or out building, as HOSP also like to nest near buildings. However, even this can be challenged as I had a HOSP attack last year on a nest box filled with baby Violet Green Swallow that was well over a 100 yards away for any building. If you can not trap the pest, then e-mail me privately for alternatives. Happy Bluebird Trails To You, The Brinckmans wrote: Ruth from Souderton, PA I am having a problem with HOSP's taking over ... Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 13:24:09 -0700 Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. Ruth, you have been given poor advice on House Sparrow control. Our hanging trail boxes in urban So. Calif. average 15 to 20 feet high above active green spaces and this height does not deter House Sparrows. Do you have feeders in/near your yard? My first advice to people with House Sparrow problems is to simply clear the area of feeders which attract House Sparrows. On your question as to whether to remove the partial Bluebird nest, leave it
alone. Why would you consider removing it? The Brinckmans wrote: ... From: "paul kilduff" plkldf"at"hotmail.com Paul Kilduff Last year on our trail in Baltimore County MD (Oregon Ridge Park) I tried telecoping poles for the first time (thanks to Fawzi -- 3/4" conduit holding the box into 1" conduit in the ground, with a 1/4" inch machine screw and wingnut locking it) -- mainly as alternative to baffles for predator protection. Our results last year were that the neither the bluebirds nor tree swallows seemed to like them as much as the ones lower down, especially the blues. I know it's counterintuitive, but that's what I observed last year. Just FWIW. We'll see what happens this year, but for my new installations I'm tending to go instead with 3/4" conduit driven into the ground (by a pole driver -- whoo! that's a good tool! they have them at Southern States) at a height which can be looked into by our shortest monitor, guarded by stovepipe baffle, which "feels" more effective to me vs. snakes and raccoons than the 4" PVC. Only problem I've had with the stovepipe baffle is that some of them creak loudly in very little wind -- don't know if that's off-putting to the birds or not. PS -- re: caulk -- there is a brand called "Dynaflex" which is dyno-MITE! Man! It's expensive, but this stuff is state of the art. I don't think it turns white when exposed to moisture, as all my caulking is done in the field, and it's been raining a lot, and it's stayed clear (personally I like our boxes ugly as maybe it deters theft). I'm not necessarily recommending it -- it's so strong and flexible it may be TOO good for use in nestboxes! I usually put a little insulation into the top of the pole and then seal it with caulk, and then run a bead of caulk up the sides of the pole -- if I have to remove the box from the pole it's a major effort -- it won't let go! best, From : We always seem to think it is the BLUEBIRDS who prefer lower nestboxes, when ... From: "Gary Springer" springer"at"alltel.net Gary Springer Carnesville, Georgia April 18, 2003 One more thing on the nesting height preferences of cavity nesting song birds: Bluebirds, tufted titmice, chickadees and other cavity nesting birds are occasionally found nesting at only two or three feet high, and more often at 5 feet.. Most of us live in well built homes with electricity, running water and central heat and air conditioning. However, people can be found living under bridges in cardboard boxes.or using wooden pallets or tin barrels as homes. Sometimes hundreds or even thousands of people can be seen living with this strategy. The reason these people are living in cardboard boxes is not that they prefer cardboard boxes to well built homes. And, of the two strategies, the life expectancy and ability to breed successfully of those that live in cardboard boxes is much lower. By the same token, observations of these cavity nesting birds at two to five feet high is no indication of preference or the success of that strategy. Gary Springer Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 10:24:34 -0500 At 10:17 AM 4/23/03 -0400, Haleya Priest wrote: When different mounting heights are suggested, many times the person making the suggestion assumes that they would be mounted on a telescoping pole--then they can be mounted at the desired height but lowered to a convenient monitoring level. In areas with feral cat problems for example, "eye level" might be lethal. Telescoping poles are fairly easy to make. Kate Arnold Date: Thu, 9 Oct 03 08:41:04 -0500 Hi all, I am relatively new to the list so this topic may have been previously discussed, but has anyone experimented with varying heights when spacing nestboxes closer than 100 yards? Sharon Kersten XE Ranch Nature Preserve NE Milam County, Texas Date: Thu, 09 Oct 03 09:54:06 -0700 Sharon, there has been some discussion in past posts about varying heights of nestboxes in relation to predator control. Height variance for attracting other species has been minimal and your comments touch upon an area which deserves far more discussion. In congested city/urban areas (such as my Yorba Linda, Calif trail) nestboxes must be hung over heavily used parks and greenbelts. I've tried to attract other species by offering boxes with various sized holes at different heights. At an experimental site, the co-monitor and I have saturated some portions of the park with "pods" of box clusters. The pod will usually attract one Western Bluebird pair, the extra boxes will attract multiple pairs of House Sparrows (we have too many House Sparrows for trapping to be considered an effective method of House Sparrow control). You may review the multi-box WEBL/HOSP "pod" interaction by reviewing the tables shown at: http://home.earthlink.net/~lviolett/testmirada.html On the mountain trail (7,000' altitude), multiple boxes at various heights, dimensions, hole sizes and configurations *will* attract a diversity of cavity nesters. The mountain trail is my "fun" trail because of the variety of species attracted to the nestboxes. In the immediate area around my cabin, there are about a dozen boxes within a tight area and only one or two of these boxes are used each year. The high vacancy of this cluster may be due to the traffic level of wildlife (including bird predators) attracted to an artificial water source (plastic ground-level pond). Or the high vacancy could be due to the family next door who routinely turn their cabin into a shooting range for their kids (BB-pellet guns). Further away from this high activity area of the mountain trail, both multiple box clusters and single box sites are attracting a diverse range of cavity nesters. And I do believe the frequency of Pygmy Nuthatches using the boxes is due to the factor you mentioned . . . the height of the box. Last season, Pygmy Nuthatches chose a "Chickadee" box with 1.25" holes which was paired with a "Bluebird" box with 1.56" holes. The Bluebird eggs in that pair of boxes were pecked and destroyed and I'm blaming the Pygmy Nuthatches. Next year, the smaller box will be lowered from 18 feet to 10 feet to see if Pygmy Nuthatches can be deterred from using the box so that the desired combination of Bluebirds and Mountain Chickadees can be achieved.
From: "Larry A Broadbent"
rockets"at"mnsi.net Nancy, Gary Springer from GA has done exactly this. Putting up nestboxes at various heights, and he is getting fantastic results over the standard 5 to 6 ' height recommended for Eastern Bluebirds. He is getting a far greater number of different cavity nesting birds nesting and has found that even the Bluebirds in his are choose the higher mounted boxes over the lower mounted height boxes. I'm doing the same thing in my area of Chatham, Ontario Canada. Here's an example of a Kestrel box wt. 3" hole mounted 16' off the ground that was used by a nesting pair of Eastern Bluebirds in the state of MD. http://www.wap.atfreeweb.com/kestrel/kb-site21.html Good thing no Kestrels wanted this box at the same time. From: "Bruce Burdett" blueburd"at"tds.net
Nancy, et al, I like to have my nestboxes at a height that makes it possible for me to look into the nest cup comfortably while standing on the ground beside the box (all are side-openers) without using stools, milk crates, ladders, boxes, special shoes, mirrors, flatbeds, cranes, staging, horses, or supernatural levitation. This principle suggests that the height of the box depends on, and varies with, the height of the monitor. Tall monitor; high box. Short monitor; low box. Please note that this is NOT a "rule." It's just the way I prefer do it. I like to be able to turn the screw, open the box, monitor the nest, close the box, tighten the screw, and leave in about 45 seconds. I've actually timed it in about half that. If there are problems in the box, of course, it will take longer. (blowflies, broken eggs, earwigs, ants, dead birds, wasps, etc.) A lesson I learned as a beekeeper is that I should make my inspection of hives (or bird-boxes) as brief and non-disruptive as possible. (Bees have a convincing way of expressing their irritation with the beekeeper.) Bluebirds are remarkably patient and tolerant creatures, but I don't like to test their patience any more than I have to. Bruce Burdett, SW NH P.S.: I'm assuming, rightly or wrongly, that the so-called "100-yard rule" originated from the fact the Bluebirds will not usually nest closer than that to other Bluebird nestings, though I know that in some special circumstances, - such as an intervening house or copse, - they'll nest somewhat closer. 100 yards is the length of a football field, and none of my 2-box "sites" is as close as that to the next nearest one. One of my "sites" is three miles from the next nearest. From: "Bruce Burdett" blueburd"at"tds.net
Charlene, et al, I keep one NABS-type Bluebird house in our yard, though I've
never seen a Bluebird here and never expect to. (It's too heavily wooded.) Every
year since we moved here 7 years ago Chickadees have nested in it. The odd thing
is that we almost never see them in or on or around the box. They manage to
carry on their whole nesting operation, including fledging, in secrecy. Like all
my boxes, it's mounted so that I can peer easily into the cup. As you probably
know, the nest usually looks empty, but the 6 or 7 tiny eggs are buried deep
inside the cup under a handful of light, fluffy material. Be careful not to
break them when you grope around for them. I've never broken one, but I was
forewarned. by the experts.
Most cavity nesters prefer boxes (cavities) at heights much greater than the average post-mounted nestbox. A box 3' off the ground may, indeed, deter House Sparrows but it will also result in greater nesting failures of any bird which uses the box. The monitor's goal is to offer the safest nestboxes while customizing the box/trail to thwart competitors/predators in the local area. Beware: Safety is usually sacrificed when a design or box condition (low box) is deemed "House Sparrow Resistant". Linda V. Date: Fri, 10 Oct 03 12:30:38 -0400 Whether mounting high or low - remember in the end it will be whatever makes it easier to monitor. With boxes mounted high I usually don't monitor as often. If it is in area not yet touched by HOSP, then there is no problem - - but if one isn't monitoring because it is a pain to get into or see, and there are HOSP around it can mean disaster. Remember that Bruce is well over 6 feet tall and Gary is at about 6'. I always disagree with the mounting the boxes higher as a rule - and am sorry to do this to Gary et al - - - but if you are like me and basically want to do the best work with the least amount of effort (and only 5' 6") I have to really keep most of my boxes at eye level. My kestrel boxes are mounted at 13' and honestly I wouldn't take them down for anything - but they are a real pain in the neck to monitor!!!!!!! :-) H Date: Fri, 10 Oct 03 16:49:25 -0700 All of my pole mounted boxes are 6 to 8 ft to the entrance hole, I use a 4ft aluminum ladder to be able to see into the box, All are side opening. Some are low enough to check with a small mirror while standing on the ground , but not many. Sometimes it gets to be a pain carriying that ladder but the birds are better off being a couple more feet away from the cats that are everywhere. Tom Long Western Oregon From: "L Colangelo"
lcolangelo"at"verizon.net Higher nest box poles (over 6 ft.) will help keep your neighbor's cats from leaping on top of the boxes and killing the parent birds as they attempted to feed their young...speaking from experience.... FROM: Charlene Anchor What would be the best approximate height for mounting a Chickadee box? Interesting to hear that people are getting good results from mounting boxes higher than 5 or 6 feet. I read that HOSP prefer boxes that are mounted high. To discourage HOSP it was recommended to lower the boxes to as low as 3 feet, that is if you don't have a raccoon problem. Maybe the info I read was outdated or poor information. Charlene Anchor, Illinois Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 16:37:04 -0500 I have been told that chickadees as well as some of the woodpecker species "prefer" nestboxes at heights of 8 feet or more. One way to mount nestboxes at that height is to make a telescoping pole, which still allows monitoring without climbing on ladders. All that is needed is two pieces of conduit of two different diameters so one can slide inside the other. A hole can be drilled through both pieces so a bolt will hold the upper piece in the higher position, or you drill through the larger diameter conduit and put a bolt through it while the bottom end of the smaller diameter conduit is notched so it sits down on the bolt. In the first case you remove the bolt and lower the upper conduit with the nestbox. In the latter case you do not have to remove the bolt to lower the nestbox, but just lift it up off the bolt to remove it from the lower conduit entirely. If mounting nestboxes on telescoping poles, it is best to use a lighter
weight nestbox. If it's too heavy to handle easily you might inadvertently drop
it down too suddenly and scramble the eggs or injure/frighten birds inside. A
few "test runs" after installation will ensure that you can handle it, rather
than waiting until the nestbox is in use. From: "Keith & Sandy Kridler"
kakridler"at"1starnet.com ...Safety of the nestbox monitor should be the number 1 priority in setting out nestboxes. If you have to climb a tall ladder to check nestboxes then sooner or later you will end up dumped out in the field when a ladder leg sinks in the ground! Yesterday I visited with an old man to help him replace wood duck nestboxes that he could not/would not check any more. He had a large private lake built and had wood duck boxes installed on heavy poles well out from the future shore line. It seems the wood ducks loved the boxes and his 70 year old friend wanted to see the "duck nests"...Well two 70 year old men paddle out into the lake in a shaky aluminum "John boat". They pull up to the nestbox and the man can't see in the box by standing up in the boat.....He can't get close enough to the pole by standing on the boat seat because there is a huge sheetmetal guard to keep coons off the box. So he decides to raise the telescoping boat seat and climbs up on top of a 5 gallon bucket and then up on the seat while the owner tries to steady the pitching boat..... Hurrah! Something MOVED in the box that he can now just barely see into through the entrance hole. A few sharp raps on the nestbox side and the skulking duck will leave the box and he can see the eggs!!! RAP RAP RAP and a HUGE black snake springs out of the box and right into his outstretched arms.....Man and snake end up in the bottom of the boat and a terrifying experience ends up with bruises but it could have been a drowning.....He claims that this was a water moccasin but black rat snakes can and will swim out and raid wood duck boxes and crawl right up and over large sheetmetal raccoon guards. What do you think the results would have been had he been standing on top of a 12 foot ladder peering into a kestrel nestbox and the snake came springing out? Safety first! Now go out and study OLD dead snags and see how many woodpecker cavities you find between 3 to five feet off the ground! Now go back and see if telescoping poles or Linda's method of hanging nestboxes will work in your area IF you STILL want to check higher mounted nestboxes:-)) KK From: Gary Springer springer"at"alltel.net Hi Dottie, For quite a while I have suspected that mounting nestboxes higher in open areas would reduce the number of house wrens using them. The reason I have suspected this is that these wrens typically prefer to nest near brush where they can take cover quickly and use as cover as they approach their nest. They may prefer to nest near brush because they are more vulnerable to predation from flying predators than other small songbirds. They do not seem to be able to quickly attain the flight speeds as the other small cavity nesting songbirds can. If flight characteristics and predation are what cause this bird to prefer nesting near brush, mounting a nestbox higher would make it even more risky for this bird to approach because not only would it have to travel through a greater open area, but also, it would have to accelerate its flight on more of an incline making its approach slower and more vulnerable still. Another reason I suspected that higher nestboxes would deter house wrens is that I had never heard of Martin landlords who typically place their boxes up twelve feet and higher, have problems with house wrens. It is however, very common for bluebird landlords who typically mount boxes only five feet off the ground to be frustrated by the antics of house wrens such as filling boxes with sticks and piercing eggs of other tenants So, when you wrote of your friend providing nesting for house wrens to keep them away from martin housing I became curious as to how high his martin housing is placed, whether they are in an open area, and whether or not he has experienced destruction of martin eggs and other martin/house wren interaction at the martin's nest site. It seems that because he has placed 25 gourds for the purpose of diverting house wrens away from his martin housing, he must be inundated with a very high population of house wrens, otherwise it seems four of five gourds would suffice. I would be very grateful for more information about your friends experiences with house wrens. [Note from webmaster: see more on this thread at Problems with Wrens (Part 5).] Sincerely, Gary Springer FROM: Gary Springer Myth: "Bluebirds prefer to nest in boxes mounted at "eye-level" Eye-level is the height that makes it easiest for people to mount and monitor boxes and has absolutely nothing to do with bluebird nest site preference. Oddly, as easy as it would be to draw some initial inferences, and as many "scientific studies" that have been and are being conducted about bluebirds, I have never seen the results of any "scientific study" to determine what height bluebirds actually prefer. Could it be that what is easiest for us is so obvious that it overshadows what is best for bluebirds? Here in Northeast Georgia Eastern Bluebirds prefer nestboxes mounted eight and a half feet over the eye-level box more than 95 percent of the time. But scientists and those who place more credence on published studies than first hand experience discount this as an "anecdotal" account while their studies involving complex mathematical formulas are accepted as "proof" even when the results boil down to minute percentile differences. Which reminds me of a second myth proliferated by many bluebirders who don't appreciate the fact that each and every one of their own experiences are views into truth and reality that flirt with discovery and are therefore as credible as those of any scientist. Myth: "Scientific studies prove things." Gary Springer From: BOBFRANZ13"at"aol.com Allow me to add a large amount of evidence about the myth of only locating nestboxes at eye-level. I live in Orange County - in southern California - where we install all our nestboxes from 10' to 12' above the ground in trees. In 2002, we had 41 monitors that reported 3989 western bluebitrd fledges - thus our westerns in this part of the west rarely see an eye-level nestbox and obviously like what we provide for them. These nestboxes have a large hook on top and we use a swiveling lifter box on the end of an extendable pole to hang them from branches. Photos of the lifter in action can be seen on pages 66 and 67 of Cornell's Bluebird Monitor's Guide. Bob Franz, Placentia, CA From: Evelyn Cooper emcooper"at"bayou.com We can't put nestboxes on limbs here in the south because of snakes and squirrels and anything that can climb limbs. I think I read on here and maybe in the "Bluebird Monitor's Guide" that putting them higher than 7 ft. increases the risk of House Sparrows and Starlings taking them. I know those birds nest any height, but I do remember reading it. ... Evelyn Cooper Delhi, LA. Louisiana Bayou Bluebird Society www.labayoubluebirdsociety Member NABS From: Birder526"at"aol.com [mailto:Birder526"at"aol.com] From: Haleya Priest [mailto:mablue"at"gis.net] Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 10:44 PM Subject: Re: Nest box height Haleya Priest Amherst MA Hi Diane, I am glad you've found BB-L! Everyone has different thoughts on the matter - - I vote for having the boxes mounted to whatever height the monitor is so that they can look into the boxes with ease. For me that is 5' 3 inches exactly. (I am 5' 6” tall). :-) H From: Paula IMHO nest box height has very little to do with HOSP predation. In my limited experience, the HOSP tries to take the box that is unoccupied first. I have a box mounted at about 6 feet in my yard and one mounted at about 4 feet. The HOSP goes in the one that the EABL are not in. Don't worry because they do not remain there long. At home, I trap and remove the HOSP before he even has a chance to build much of a nest. If I did not do this, the next HOSP looking for a home would likely evict my nesting EABL. I always leave an open box for trapping. My favorite inbox trap - an absolute must - is Mr. Van Ert's Universal Sparrow Trap. You can get this at: http://www.vanerttraps.com/universal.htm In the "natural" world, birds nest in tree cavities which are often many feet from the ground. Boxes mounted up high offers some additional protection from climbing predators, but if it deters the monitor from looking in the box in any way, I would not do it. You need to be able to safely monitor and set HOSP traps, etc. - eye level is very practical. Paula Z, Powell (Central) Ohio From: judymellin [mailto:judymellin"at"netzero.net] Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 9:57 AM Subject: Re: Nest box height I think we have to consider what's good for the birds but, in my opinion, more importantly, what's going to help people as beginning monitors and what's going to keep them monitoring. As we are all aware, what would work for Joe may not work for Sally so you might want to begin by varying box height in similar habitat and watching for a season or so. It sounds as if these boxes will not be in back yards so it will take more time to observe. Think about what the monitors have to carry with them and how far they will walk from the parking lot. How large is the "preserve open space"? That could definitely affect the house sparrow problem. I think you will find that, the larger the area, the fewer the house sparrows. How close are the nearest buildings, especially houses? I back Haleya's point of view on this. If the monitors have to carry a step ladder or go through other gyrations to see into the boxes, they will not do it for long. My trail is almost a mile from parking and I have all the boxes set so that I can open them, look in and GET OUT quickly! Judy Mellin NE IL. From: BILL REED [mailto:wlreed"at"mac.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 9:42 AM Subject: Re: Nest box height Hi Diane, I mount my nestboxes (2) 8-9 feet in the air to deter predators. Many mount theirs at 5-6 feet but that is not for the birds but more for the monitor's convenience. Since many cats can jump 5-6 feet, I feel this is too low and too inviting to other predators as well. Here is how I do it and can still monitor with ease. First, I drive a piece of 1/2 inch galvanized pole or any kind of a rod into the ground. Then I mount the nestbox on a five foot tall, 1 inch piece of electrical conduit and lower it over the pole in the ground. Using a stainless steel hose clamp, I raise the nestbox to the height I want and tighten the hose clamp around the 1/2 inch ground pole below the conduit. To lower the nestbox, unscrew the hose clamp a bit and slide it down. The conduit may be attached to the back of the nestbox with clamps or the center of the bottom of the nestbox with a one inch quick release compression clamp. All of which are available at Lowe's, Home Depot and many other sources. Good luck and enjoy the blue birds. From: BILL REED [mailto:wlreed"at"mac.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 9:48 AM Subject: Re: Nest box height Here is how I mount my nestboxes and still monitor them with ease. First, I drive a piece of 1/2 inch galvanized pole or any kind of a rod into the ground. Then I mount the nestbox on a five/six foot tall, 1 inch piece of electrical conduit and lower it over the pole in the ground. Using a stainless steel hose clamp, I raise the nestbox to the height I want and tighten the hose clamp around the 1/2 inch ground pole below the conduit. To lower the nestbox, unscrew the hose clamp a bit and slide it down. The conduit may be attached to the back of the nestbox with clamps or the center of the bottom of the nestbox with a one inch quick release compression clamp. All of which are available at Lowe's, Home Depot and many other sources. Thanks to Gary Springer for teaching me how to do this. -bill From: Paula [mailto:PaulaZ "at"columbus.rr.com] I just wanted to comment, and many of you know this, but an easy way to get box mounting heights of 8 - 10 feet and still allow easy monitoring without a ladder is to telescope EMT poles for mounting. It works very well. EMT comes in 10 foot lengths. I have a telescoping setup in my yard. I cut a larger (about 1" EMT) pole in half to make two 5' poles. The larger one was driven into the ground about a foot or so. A smaller diameter (about 3/4" EMT) pipe was also cut in half. On this pipe, I mounted a pipe clamp at one end and the box on the other. Slide the pole into the larger pole and tighten clamp to get your box height about 8 feet high. I you don't cut the pipes in half, but leave more length, you could get them mounted even higher to 10 feet. If mounted higher, you might need larger diameter EMT for extra support, but you could experiment with different sizes. I like cutting the poles in half because I get no waste this way. To monitor the box, you simply loosen the clamp and gently slide the box down to eye level to monitor - beats carrying a ladder which I would probably fall off of. My EABL are successfully raising broods in eye level mounted boxes, but I have tried a couple of these telescoping setups in my yard as an experiment. I will not be changing the box heights on my trail because predation has not been a problem and the EABL seem to be doing fine with the eye level mounted boxes. I would love to hear the experience others have had with higher mounted boxes. Do the EABL seem to prefer these on your trail (as Gary indicated), and would the HOSP prefer them also? Just some thoughts. Paula Z Powell (Central) Ohio From: JOHN & BARBARA SIBIO [mailto:jsibio "at"comcast.net] I don't have a trail, but have had bluebirds nesting in my garden for a dozen years. I started out with nestboxes mounted on wooden posts, just above eye level. I knew NOTHING about bluebirds and had just seen my first WEBL at my birdbath. I went to Wild Birds Unlimited and bought two regulation boxes. No one told me not to mount them on wooden posts, and my bird guide suggested eye level height. I quickly learned that raccoons, cats, possums, etc. can easily climb the wooden post, and the neighborhood cats can jump six feet with no problem! We had bluebirds nesting right away, and I was concerned about the predators, so my long-suffering spouse took down the nestboxes, cut off the posts and mounted the boxes at 8 foot on slick metal poles. That solved the predation problem. The houses had the wooden guards on the front already and the posts deterred climbing predators. We didn't have a snake problem. The adult bluebirds sat on the fence while John reconfigured the mounting posts, and then went right in. I did have some green TRES flying around the boxes, but they didn't bothered the WEBL and never attempted to nest in them. The only problem is the monitoring, which requires a ladder. Since I only have two boxes and they are in my garden, that's OK (until I fall off). When I moved here two years ago I had my first predation problem aside from cats. Early this season the eggs were destroyed, probably by a HOWR. The birds moved to the other nestbox and successfully raised two more broods. Understand, I spend most of my time in the garden and watch the birds come and go. I chase away predators and have never seen (knock on wood) a HOSP in our neighborhood. This past summer I saw a starling for the first time, eating the wild plums in the preserve behind our home. The plums drew a lot of birds who don't normally hang around here. I didn't see it again once the plums were gone. I think the biggest threat in our neighborhood is the cats who are allowed to roam freely and reproduce! We also have raccoons and skunks at night, but the cats are around all the time. I love cats and have two myself but they stay in doors and were neutered early on. I'm 66 years old and still amazed at the number of people who know nothing about wildlife and our connection with it. I try to educate those who ask questions or show any interest, but it's an uphill struggle. Barbara in Cloverdale, CA From: John Schuster [mailto:wildwingco "at"earthlink.net] Sent: Monday, November 29, 2004 12:09 PM Subject: Re: Higher box heights ...Most of our nest boxes are mounted at 4.5 feet (from the base of the entry hole to the ground) and we have some at 6 feet. These 6 foot high nest boxes are mounted to a foot long pieces of 3/4 EMT that is then bolted to the tops of a Highway stakes (Highway stakes look like a U-BARS) in vineyard operations, but we rarely mount nest boxes higher than 6 feet. Though mounting nest boxes higher might get the birds in faster, we've never had a problem getting Bluebirds into our nest boxes at the aforementioned heights that we've been mounting them at years. Basically it is all a matter of conditioning. Once the Bluebirds know the hight that you have your nest boxes mounted at they simply adapt to that hight. It took us 2 years to get our first nesting pair of Bluebirds, and now we have dozens of Bluebirds with us all year long (using the nest boxes mounted here at 4.5 feet for winter roosting too) and they are now starting to dominate the area. Cats and Raccoons, are all around us, but they have never been a challenge because we mount our nest boxes on 3/4 inch EMT poles that they can not climb (even at 4.5 feet.) If cats or Raccoons are a concern, then you should place your nest boxes at least 6 to 8 feet away from your fence lines, so these predators can not leap or bridge over to your nest boxes. Snakes climbing is another topic that has been well covered on Bluebird L and would effect all nest boxes (regardless of hight.) The other thing that concerns me about mounting nest boxes higher then 6 feet is monitoring and cleanings. Any higher that 6 feet and you run the risk of falling of a ladder. My pal Steve Simmons did just that a year ago and broke his shoulder for his efforts. Sure you can build a telescopic mounting system out of EMT in various diameters and sizes, but with the price of steel climbing each day (steel prices have double in less that a year) the added expense can hit you right in the pocket book. Next, are predatory birds. If you mount nest boxes up high, you will attracts raptors! Raptors like to perch up high, and what better place to perch from than a wooden Bluebird nest box, in the open, at a hight of 10 feet or more. If you live in raptor country, then you need to factor this in too. I haven't even mentioned House Sparrows, because that would be like perching to the choir, but for those that are new to Bluebird L, House Sparrows (AKA HOSP) do like to nest up high out of human reach (just look up in the eves of your supper markets or mails and you will see them), so this could be a challenge. I found that if you mount nest boxes at least 60 feet or more away from out buildings and bushes, that you can reduce challenges by HOSP, but mounting a nest box up high could be very enticing to a HOSP in my opinion. If you must mount your nest boxes up high, then take a tip from Linda Violett, she has a great system for mounting her nest boxes up at alarming heights. She gets productive results without hurting herself in the process. In my experience and opinion, I'd rather have a dozen productive nest boxes mounted at lower heights that are easier to manage, than a few productive nest boxes that cost more to install, are more difficult to monitor, are more difficult to clean or service, attracts raptors or HOSPs, and you risk life and limb just to deal with them. ...John Schuster From: Paula [mailto:PaulaZ "at"columbus.rr.com] Great post, John. I tried a couple telescoping poles as an experiment, but in central Ohio, predation is really not nearly the concern that I believe it is in the southern states. Some of the comments from other listers indicate that the higher poles help to deter snakes, but I think you would still need a good baffle if you have a snake problem and if the baffle stops them, the lower height may be adequate. Not having snake problems here, I really can't knowledgably comment on this I guess. My trail will remain at eye level for easy monitoring. Paula Z Powell (Central) Ohio |
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