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My Favorite Nestbox StyleIn addition to Messages that have appeared in the Bluebird Mailing Lists on this topic, the following are on the Audubon Society of Omaha website: Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 22:15:39 -0400 What type of bluebird box works best? Do your bluebirds have a preference? Does the type of wood matter to them..etc. Mine prefer the Petersons nestbox made out of pine over the tradition box made out of cedar ,Paul Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 22:14:17 -0500 Paul asked what type of bluebird box works best. I have had excellent success with the plan shown on page 30 and 31 in THE BLUEBIRD BOOK by Donald and Lillian Stokes. It is very simple but very workable and can be built from one pine or cedar board 1" by 6" by 5' long. Pete Birkes builds them for me for $7 each. Contact him at 918-476-6020. Bluebird Bob, Northeast Oklahoma. Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 07:09:51 -0400 Paul, et al, I use the same NABS-type plans from Stokes that Bob W. uses, with wooden entrance blocks added. I've never used anything else, and they work just fine. I use 7/8" pine, #2, rough on one side. I don't like front-openers because they make it impossible to see the wasp-nests on the ceiling. (I have a few that somebody gave me.) I saw a couple of cedar houses yesterday from Target Stores ($14) with a front that SLID DOWN in dadoed grooves when you loosen the screw at the bottom. They were a little small, I thought, and a little artsy-craftsy, but they had a SHEET COPPER roof ! We'll see. I figure that my Stokes (NABS) houses cost me about $5.00 apiece for the wood, - zero if I scrounge it at the dump. Bruce Burdett, NH... Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 14:48:02 -0700 Paul, I have all kinds of boxes and most have Bluebirds. The Round PVC and the side-open work the best for me. Maynard R Sumner Flint, Michigan
Friends plus Barry Whitney....Good idea about discussing bluebird houses. I
use Gilbertson now because my bride likes them, and it doesn't hurt my elbow as
much, and it allows me an extra 1/4 of a f-stop, and with the right background
it appears suspended in thin air like magic, and I think it looks really cool.
But I am willing to change my mind, because my wife doesn't care what I think,
she is using the Gilbertson in any event. Just because she takes care of them
and the bluebirds like them too, and the sparrow traps work real well. She is a
woman of action and few words. Now me I am other directed and all talk and no
action--so things are working out okay here. Anyway, I cast one vote for the
Gilbertson. But I have enjoyed the Kentucky slot, the Nabs, the Peterson and the But, I wish someone would come up with a bluebird box that worked in the woods too. Then I could do less bushhoging. Wendell Long Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 21:36:49 -0400 Haleya Priest Amherst MA What is really incredible about bluebirding is that there are as many ways to bluebird as there are bluebirders! Different styles of bluebird boxes is but one example. One bluebirder will swear by the 2-holer, while another swears by the Gilbertson, another by the Peterson, and another the slot - and then there are the die hards that stick with the basic NABS design. However, one doesn' t have to get confused by all the different testimonials over which house is the "best" or "better". From the beginning of my bluebirding career, I heard outstanding testimonials for each box. Wow. They all sounded SO good. So, once I started my trail and had enough room, I began trying different box styles. I was amazed at the findings. The very reasons some liked and swore by one kind of box turned out to be a disaster on my trail! And sometimes one style of box turned out to be just the right box for my trail. Even still, one type of box at one site on my trail might not work on another
site on my trail - so I learned to be flexible and move different styles of
boxes to different sites on my trail depending on each site's unique needs.
Interestingly, many bluebirders stick to one box and have success throughout
their trail with only one style of box! There is another factor I have to
consider when working with different boxes on my trial. That is the love/hate
relationship I have I worry so about a big brood of babies surviving in such a cramped space. Yet this small inside diameter is but one of the many reasons this box is considered to be one of, if not THE, premiere House Sparrow resistant box. However, after seeing 7 Tree Swallows fledge just fine from a Gilbertson taught me that the small size does not seem to be a factor to successful fledging. Still I cringe when I think of all those babies stuffed into such a small space. Conclusion: try as many boxes as you can and find out what works best for you and your site or your trail. Over time you'll come to prefer some boxes over others, but you will hopefully always experiment with new boxes. In any event, if you are newer to bluebirding and you have room for only one box, think about starting with the NABS box. They are easy to build and have all your basic rules of thumb having to do with bluebirds: proper ventilation slots, good construction, easy to open, inside size dimensions good for bluebirds, etc. From there, experiment. Their are many different styles of boxes to choose from including the Gilbertson; the slot box; the 2-holer; the Springer Chalet; the Bolt box; and many more boxes that are worthy of experimenting with. Even though I prefer some boxes to others, it doesn't mean the other boxes are not "good": it simply means those boxes don't seem to work on my trail at this time. So you can see with the example of bluebird houses, there are as many ways to bluebird as there are bluebirders! H :-) Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 13:48:25 -0500 Which is your favorite and most productive nesting Since for the first 10 years that I put out nest boxes, I used only NABS style wooden boxes, I think that the Eastern Bluebirds here imprinted to these boxes, because I had no luck with the Peterson box I had. That is why I am not trying the Gilbertson and Van Ert boxes, as an experiment. Also, I have a lot of Tree Swallows here, and I was hoping to get more EABL pairs by offering another kind of box. Out of the six pairs of EABL nesting in my boxes now, only one is not in a NABS box, and that one is in a Van Ert box. Interesting! Actually, I have to say that of the cylinder type boxes, I slightly prefer the Van Ert over the Gilbertson for a couple of reasons. With the Gilbertson boxes just hanging on the pole by the roof, I have had problems with them blowing around to face directions that I didn't want them facing. Also, it takes me longer to reattach the box to the roof when I have to squeeze the box and try to match up the pins in the holes. With the Van Ert box, the roof is firmly attached to the pole with a bracket and a screw, then the box slides down a track to be checked, although you do have to put a nail in the track at a 45 degree angle to secure the box so it doesn't slide down and out by itself. The Van Ert box does have a large overhang on the roof coming down at a 90 degree angle, which I also like. It would be very difficult for a hawk etc. to swoop down and pick off a parent perched on the outside feeding young. Mostly, I just want to use the kind of box that the EABL like the best, and have the best success in, which is why I am trying other designs. I will be scanning the NABS plans shortly and sending them to you. Good Luck! Mary Roen, River Falls, WI Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 14:32:36 -0400 To: BLUEBIRD-L, Two reasons I like side-opening boxes: 1. Front-openers make it difficult to see and remove wasps' nests. I like to mount my boxes so that the hole is about on a level with my nose. I don't like to mess around with stools, ladders, mirrors, etc. Bruce Burdett, NH Bluebird Conspiracy, Sunapee NH Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 10:26:10 EDT no clue what, if anything, is critical--except for the 8.5" drop to protect nestlings from jays, etc. One further idea that seems to have worked here, on one box I've had for a good 10 years (with at least one, usually two, EABL broods each year). On each side of the hole, with about 3" space between, is a vertical piece of 1" board, fastened perpendicular to the front. It extends down about 1" or so below the hole level, and up to touch the roof overhang. At the top of each piece, there is a V-shaped cut-out, which looks to me like it was accidental--probably a left-over scrap from that or some other woodworking project--but it lets more light in without spoiling the effectiveness of the guard. I know some have mentioned that the bluebirds do not seem to like entering through/between guards, so I'm assuming the V cut-out and consequent better light is the key to why they still select this box. (It's basically a NABS- style box, BTW--top-opening for my convenience in horseback monitoring.) Rhonda Watts Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 12:56:34 -0500 (EST) On Sun, 20 Jan 2002, Rwatts wrote: key to why they still select this box. (It's basically a NABS-style box, BTW--top-opening for my convenience in horseback monitoring.) Is there any reason a top-opening box is more convenient than another? Wouldn't it be better (for the birds) to use side or front-opening boxes, so they could be mounted higher for greater safety? Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 14:13:44 EDT Is there any reason a top-opening box is more convenient than another? Wouldn't it be better (for the birds) to use side or front-opening boxes, so they could be mounted higher for greater safety? The first box, then 2 boxes, I had were side-opening--they were near the house, so not a great effort to check. Once I had begun to place other boxes in hayfields, neighbors' land, etc., where the boxes were not near a road, I began to check from on horseback. Both horses I use are 16 hands tall (i.e., 5'4" at the withers, or back), so already I'm a stepladder aheadg--thus my boxes (away from the house) are fairly high anyway. As for top vs. side/front opening, I agree it's easier to clean, reach in, etc. with the side/fronts. But from on horseback, I found the top-opening was both easier and (I think) safer for all concerned. With the side/front opening, the box either had to be *way* up, or I had to bend way over (Cozzzck exercise!) to see in--with the top-opening, I just stand in the stirrups and peer in. Horses being horses, I also felt that there was less chance of an accident to the nestlings--if the horse spooked, or just grabbed for a tasty leaf, about all that would happen is that I'd drop the `lid' ka-bang; but with the side/front opening, a nestling *might* tumble out. As far as ease in reaching in to fix things--so far I've been lucky with the horse-monitored boxes, with very little handling needed. With Isaac, I have reached in to remove a couple of dead nestlings then and there. For more extensive handling, I hike back with stepladder and whatever other tools I need. I've devised a couple to means to get a nest out intact (a pair of narrow spatulas, and/or pushing a dowel up through the drain holes). All the boxes are mounted so I can unfasten the bottom bolt holding the box to the pole, turn it upside down, and empty/scrape it that way. (I'm looking forward to trying out my new Gator-Grip wrench for that next year!!) As for the `why' of horseback monitoring--the hayfield boxes are not easy to get to once the crop is up. Certainly can't drive out, and it's a pain to walk (ticks, etc., considered), but with the horses I can go via the headland with one path through the haycrop to each box. And oddly enough (I suppose because the horse is higher up from the ground) there's less damage to the haycrop than if *I* walked from headland out to box! ... Rhonda From: Glady's Reyes [mailto:reyesg"at"yahoo.com] As you may recall, I was the one that had a couple of BB houses in my sons' school and a Martin house full of HOSPs. Well, after a major battle, five BBs fledged and trapped six HOSPs! Isn't life just peachy??! When attempting to clean the BB's houses, I decided that it would be best to just replace them...they are in bad shape and need major repairs. However, been debating on which type of house to purchase. Any thoughts? Should I try a variety or stick with a single type? Your help is appreciated...again! Glady's Reyes Hawthorn Woods, IL (25 miles from Chicago) From: KCBSP"at"aol.com [mailto:KCBSP"at"aol.com] ...I don't have a favorite box but if you have to trap it's hard to use certain traps with side openers.. such as Bolt trap. Think what makes your life easier first. I like that gizmo cause I don't have to fool around with any HOSP that gets trapped in one of those. It works well for me in single boxes. Do what is easiest for you. All the bluebirds need is good monitor like you and a place to call home. The rest works itself out. I have lots of different boxes but only in a few do I have HOSP troubles. I can provide you with a plan to cut some out in bulk if you find someone to do that for you. Let me know.. and you're doing a great job!! Kathy Clark, New Cumberland, PA From: Mary Beth Roen [mailto:mbroen"at"hotmail.com] Gladys, I like to use a variety of nest boxes to see which the EABLs like best. I have the most EABL occupancy in the Gilwood box and Gilbertson PVC box. A third, is the slot box from Bluebirds Across Nebraska group. Mary Roen, River Falls, WI From: Dottie, Hickory Hollow, Brown County, Indiana [mailto:yumyumkatts"at"voyager.net] Unfortunately, I found out this spring that the oval hole in the Peterson box makes it possible for Starlings to enter to get BB babies. This is what happened to me. Starlings tossed out five BB babies in order to use the box for themselves. We know it was a Starling as these BB babies were ready to fledge in a few days. A Starling would have been big enough to toss them out. I found all five BB babies dead under the Peterson box. However, the BB's do seem to really like the Peterson box. Personally, I don't care for it much as the floor is so small; but I'm not raising a family in it and if the BB's like it then they can have it. I'm fixing the oval hole to a round BB hole and, hopefully, that will take care of the Starling problem. Actually, I think the old regular BB nest box is the best. And, the older the better. Dottie, Hickory Hollow Brown County, Indiana From: Fawzi P. Emad [mailto:femad"at"comcast.net] Fawzi Emad in Laytonsville, Maryland From: Keith & Sandy Kridler [mailto:txbluebirder"at"sbcglobal.net] Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 9:06 AM Subject: Re:With so many different types of BB houses...which one to pick? Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas This trail being rebuilt is already a sparrow heaven and normally school/city lawns are perfect Starling habitat. I am going to compare three city and county park trails in a few weeks comparing different or lack of monitoring and how this affects bluebird success. It is NOT the box style but the monitoring style that determines whether you have bluebirds or not! If you have starlings and other predators in ANY numbers then the larger holed and shallower nestboxes will eventually lead to higher losses. The Peterson oval hole and the Gilwood entrance readily allow starlings and other larger birds access to the egg omelet or bird nuggets inside the box! Remember more birds die or eggs don't hatch on my trail in a single year than most people raise in nestboxes their whole lives! I have raised 40 generations of predators in this area on my bluebird babies and eggs! I compare all types of nestbox styles and shallow nestboxes have been REALLY bad the last couple of years for me. I really like the flat roof design of Dick Tuttle and the plans Fawzi posted of his favorite nestbox are similar to this design. Remember we have had over 15" of rain this month and with a large flat roof the eggs and young will remain dry. If heat is a problem remember that the hottest part of the day in June is between 3>4:30 PM on a sunny day and the hottest temperatures recorded in a nestbox in full sun will peak at this time and AGAIN at 6>7PM when and if the sun strikes the sides of the nestboxes. This is data from dozens of nestboxes in many different locations with the temperature data loggers in them. Off to work! KK From: Larry A Broadbent [mailto:rockets"at"mnsi.net] Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 9:46 AM Subject: Re: With so many different types of BB houses...which one to pick? Dottie, I'm making all of my entrance holes with 1 1/2" round holes. I use a forstner bit in my drill press. Then I use a 1/4" round over bit on the router table and round over both sides of the entrance hole. This makes the entrance hole more bird friendly. Easier on the birds feathers. Actually one could use a 1/8" or 3/16" or 1/4" round over bit to round over the edges of both sides of the entrance hole. This takes away any and all sharp edges / splinters. Fawzi makes his holes the same way, but his are 1 9/16". This is still Starling Proof. Both my personal take, and the opinion of Ontario's top Bluebirder ( Don Wills), is that the entrance holes should be only 1 1/2" for Eastern Bluebirds. However, studies have shown that Bluebirds do like, and will often choose larger holes. Here is an example: Bluebirds nested in this Kestrel box in MD. That's 10' 6" off the ground and has a 3" hole. http://www.wap.atfreeweb.com/kestrel/kb-site21.html Some excellent information here: http://www.realbirdhomes.com/Bird%20House%20Course%20Page%20One.htm I have Tree Swallows nesting with young, in one of my Chalets in the backyard on the farm. I can watch the comings and goings from my garage workshop. Regards, From: Wendell Long [mailto:mrsimple33"at"go-concepts.com] Friends, The Bride has 14 Gilbertson PVC boxes here on Belly Acres Farm. ... From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com] Keith Kridler writes: "It is NOT the box style but the monitoring style that determines whether you have bluebirds or not!" Best answer of all!!!! Evelyn Cooper Delhi, LA From: John Schuster [mailto:wildwingco"at"earthlink.net] Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 12:21 PM Subject: Re: With so many different types of BB houses...which one to pick? Dear Friends, Thanks Keith, as usual you hit the nail on the head. We have a mix of all types of nesting boxes as we like to experiment with design concepts to develop our product line, and out of 13 Bluebird nest boxes at our Cotati vineyard (not including other vineyards) only, 3 are not active, but all the rest are active with Bluebirds, Tree, and Violet Green Swallows (I believe if we shift the other 3 around we will get them filled too.) When we started Bluebirding in 1995, we didn't have anything for 2 years. Now during the nesting season, we can put up a nest box at a new location and in a few hours, there will be a Bluebird or a Violet Green Swallow checking it out, and with in a few short days a nest will be under construction with a clutch of eggs to follow. In my opinion, positioning, monitoring, time and patience are key to any successful Bluebird trail. ... John Schuster Wild Wing Company From: Larry A Broadbent [mailto:rockets"at"mnsi.net] I agree with Keith Kridler's comments 100%. Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas "It is NOT the box style but the monitoring style that determines whether you have bluebirds or not!" However, this does not negate putting up properly designed nestboxes.Anyone could put up a coffee can or milk carton and monitor it on a daily basis, and have horrendous negative results. The equation for good Bluebird Conservation using man made nestboxes should be: A good monitoring style AND a properly constructed, designed , AND properly mounted nestbox will yield a higher percentage of fledged bluebirds" Regards, Larry A Broadbent Ontario Bluebird Society (OBS) founder From:Evelyn Cooper Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 7:09 AM I don't like top opening nestboxes as they are harder to clean. I like the front opening (from the bottom) nestboxes best. It took trial and error for me and like anything else, it is different strokes for different folks. Evelyn Cooper Delhi, LA From: plkldf"at"comcast.net [mailto:plkldf"at"comcast.net] ...With regard to Larry B's statement about favoring 1-1/2" holes for EABL, I still don't get the logic. If there's nothing that can get into a 1-9/16 that can't get into a 1-1/2, what possible reason could there be for staying at 1-1/2? What am I missing? Also, WRT HOSP, I have a couple of boxes on our trail at Oregon Ridge, that are good, productive locations but also usually attract HOSP, and then we have to go kill 'em. I found some (blue) PVC electrical boxes. I drilled a 1-9/16" hole in one with a Forstner bit and I think I totalled the poor thing, so intend to get a cheap 1-1/2" spade bit for future hole-making. My idea is that the thin wall of the PVC box will discourage HOSP, since they don't like thin walls, while serving as an effective EUST guard, since I trust the EUST won't be able to squeeze through even a very thin 1-1/2 or 1-9/16 hole. Any comments? Paul in Baltimore From: Larry A Broadbent [mailto:rockets"at"mnsi.net] Paul, I tried to illustrate that Eastern Bluebirds do like, and will often choose Larger entrance holes. NABS website: The 1 9/16" round entrance holes for Eastern Bluebirds are perfectly acceptable, AND they are SRE's. (Starling Resistant Entrance). Meaning that the European Starling can NOT gain full entrance to 1 1/2" or 1 9/16" round entrance holes. However, the Peterson vertical oval hole 1 3/8" x 2 1/4" do allow European Starlings to completely enter. But as Keith Kridler has pointed out in his posts, European Starlings can reach their head, neck, and upper body in a 1 1/2" entrance hole far enough to reach built up nests containing eggs or "bird nuggets". Hole size recommendations for cavity nesting birds are chosen for maximum conservation results. They keep out / restrict larger birds. With the exception to woodpeckers. They simply enlarge the smaller hole to a size they want. The positive side of rounding over the sides of the entrance holes ( with a 1/8", 3/16", or 1/4" round over bit), both front and back, makes them more bird friendly. Easier on their feathers. Easier to get into and out of the nestbox. The slight negative side to rounding over the entrance holes, is that it allows the European Starlings a very slight extra reach into the 1 1/2" entrance hole. IF you are in a Starling Free Zone (SFZ), which will be the exception rather than the norm, then by all means use the 1 9/16" round entrance holes. You could even use LARGER diameter entrance holes, since there are NO starlings in your SFZ. You will be able to attract a broader variety of cavity nesting birds. Eastern Bluebirds often use 2" to 3" woodpecker holes in trees or natural cavities for their nests. From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com] Thanks, Larry, I knew it was one of them, I just had the wrong hole. If I used a larger hole, would it make it easier for larger birds like crows, blue jays, etc. to reach in and get them? I have had to put the wooden face guard on some of them, but could still use the larger hole. Evelyn From: Larry A Broadbent [mailto:rockets"at"mnsi.net] Yes, Evelyn. If you use a hole size larger than 1 1/2" for Eastern Bluebirds, that will make it easier for larger birds like crows, blue jays, etc. to reach in and get the eggs or young. Regards, Larry B -----Original Message----- From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com] Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 4:20 PM To: rockets"at"mnsi.net Cc: 'Bluebird List' Subject: RE: With so many different types of BB houses...which one to pick? Well, I will stick to the 1 1/2" hole. I have many natural cavities the Woodpeckers and Carolina Chickadees can nest in. Thanks, Evelyn From: plkldf"at"comcast.net [mailto:plkldf"at"comcast.net] Paul, I tried to illustrate that Eastern Bluebirds do like, and will often choose Larger entrance holes. Oval holes should measure 1 3/8" x 2 1/4" for the Eastern Bluebird. The 1 9/16" round entrance holes for Eastern Bluebirds are perfectly acceptable, AND they are SRE's. (Starling Resistant Entrance). Meaning that the European Starling can NOT gain full entrance to 1 1/2" or 1 9/16" round entrance holes. I'm just not understanding this: you seem to be using the NABS website's recommendation as your reason for saying that a 1-1/2" hole is best, then you're pointing out that the NABS website also endorses an almost universally discredited oval hole. What am I missing? If they're wrong on the oval hole, as you correctly point out, then how can you accept their authority on the diameter of a round hole? And what in your personal experience leads you to agree with them? This has been verified by NABS members in many States and here in the province of Ontario, Canada. I agree. And to stop taking the NABS website's recommendations as authoritative. Simply make the Peterson box with 1 1/2" or 1 9/16" round holes. This makes them SRE's to Starlings. We have plenty of starlings, and they don't get into either 1-1/2" holes or 1-9/16" holes since we use starling guards. But the starlings have nothing to do with it. Again, as you correctly point out, EUST can reach into a 1-1/2" hole, and they can reach into a 1-9/16" hole. So I don't understand what having starlings or not having starlings has to do with it. Aside from the fact that the NABS website recommends 1-1/2" hole for EABL, what reason is there to use that size? best, From: Larry A Broadbent [mailto:rockets"at"mnsi.net] Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 11:48 PM Subject: Fw: Re: With so many different types of BB houses...which one to pick? Paul, The NABS website is only one of many sources that recommend 1 1/2" entrance hole size for Eastern Bluebirds, and 1 9/16" holes where the Western & Mountain Bluebird ranges overlap. This I agree with 100%. A 1 9/16" round entrance hole can also be used for Eastern Bluebirds. Many Bluebirders use the 1 9/16" entrance holes for their Eastern Bluebird nestboxes. I have no problem with this at all. As a mater of fact I will be using some 1 9/16" round entrance holes for some of my Eastern Bluebird nestboxes as well. This information on the NABS website is accurate and highly recommended by the top Ornithologist involved with Bluebird Trails. However the NABS website still recommends the Peterson vertical oval hole 1 3/8" x 2 1/4", which has proven to allow European Starlings (EUST) to enter completely. This is a mistake as far as I'm concerned. IF a person is to use the Peterson 1 3/8" x 2 1/4" vertical oval hole in their nestbox, then they should be aware of the FACT that EUST can ad do enter these types of entrance holes. This is a documented fact and not an opinion. This is where the NABS website is lacking and should be updated to include the warning " IF a person is to use the Peterson 1 3/8" x 2 1/4" vertical oval hole in their nestbox, then they should be aware of the FACT that EUST can ad do enter these types of entrance holes." Because the NABS website is wrong ( in my opinion) about recommending the Peterson 1 3/8" x 2 1/4" vertical oval hole, dose not mean that it is wrong in all of it's other recommendations. If you or I made one mistake out of 100, does that mean that the other 99 we got right are also wrong and incorrect? NO. I can't see why anyone would want to use this type entrance hole when it automatically will allow EUST free access. But Bluebirders seem locked into the mindset that this style box ( Peterson box) HAS to have the Peterson 1 3/8" x 2 1/4" vertical oval hole. Doesn't it??? NO it doesn't! Just make the Peterson box 4 1/4" to 4 1/2" wide and make a 1 1/2" or 1 9/16" round hole. Fawzi Emad has a excellent Modified Peterson nestbox and plans on his website. I am currently build 4 of these from his plans. http://mywebpages.comcast.net/femad/p3/modified_pterson_box.htm Regards, Larry A Broadbent From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com] NABS does modify its recommendations from time to time. Just recently, it changed the distance for EABL to 125 to 150 yards where it had been 100 yards. (between nestboxes) So, maybe it enough people would nudge them about it, they would put a warning about it on their recommendations. I am glad we have their recommendations as we not only need them for ourselves but to give to others when they ask. I gave a presentation to a city and one man there told us he had made 4,000 nestboxes and placed them all around the parish. He had one for display. It had no opening for monitoring, no vent holes, a perch on the front and was about 1/4th inch thick. When they get full, they will just all be sitting there. Think of all the time and effort wasted. He had no idea about what monitoring is and he seemed very grateful to learn a little something about how to build a proper nestbox. I THINK they still recommend thin wall PVC pipe, but I do know several people that do not recommend it. Some use the thick wall pipe. Evelyn Cooper Delhi, LA From: Dottie Roseboom [mailto:rosedot"at"mtco.com] Hi Evelyn, I love top opening boxes - because it's super easy to catch HOSP in them. Also, I have never had a premature fledging from a top opening box. But you have an excellent point about the side or front opening boxes being easier to clean. Also easier to replace a wet nest or treat blowfly with a side opening. SO, I modify my nestboxes to open either way. Most of the time, I open from the top, but when necessary, the side or front opening is also available. Whatever makes it easiest to monitor.... Dottie Roseboom Peoria IL (central - zone 5) From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com] If it makes it easier for you to catch HOSP, that is one very good reason for using them. I am very blessed that I don't have HOSP or Starlings. If I had top opening nestboxes, I would either have to put them 4 1/2 ft off the ground or get me a stool to stand on to see them. I am all of 5' 3 1/2" :<)). One of LBBS members is handicapped and has to use a motorized chair and he has top openings. His are lower to the ground and he can motor out to his nestboxes on the yard and lift the nestboxes and check his bb's. I only have one side opening nestbox and it opens on the northwest side. When it rains, the nest gets wet, so I place it facing south. It was a store bought one. The pattern that I have has it on the side facing away from the western prevailing winds and sun. I still prefer the front (bottom) opening to any of them though. I don't have premature fledgings because I am very, very careful and I do check them past day 13. Again, I think you have to be VERY careful if you do this. Evelyn Cooper Delhi, LA From: ke4fej1 [mailto:ke4fej1"at"email.msn.com] Hi Dottie and All, OHHHhhhhh when I saw the "I Love Top Opening" I cringed. Just can't imagine why anyone would like them. Even though I don't know much, I did find out that first, year when looking at old boxes left in a County Park, that top opening boxes was not the way I'd go. I remember lifting a top, and along with it a Wasp Nest...oh my gosh! Well, I in that nano second I knew I would not have top opening, and in the next nano second I ran for my life. And that was back when I could barely walk, but it is amazing what you can do when you have to. Then this year when I heard of my M 1 Trail finding a Pigmy Rattler in her box. There is no way I would want to lift off a top, and put my face over a box. It would be like some Far Side Cartoon... I can picture the snake then attached to my nose. I am not going there, and I am not going to take anyone there either. When I first started just over two years ago with all the e-mails I read on the L, I only heard of 2 snake tails. Now, this past year we have found 3 different types of snakes, in boxes, and we are getting more snake predation now. Oh, and the other thing is the Cuban Tree Frogs...life is not complete until they jump on your face and pee. I have had that happen 3 times this year! ...and you do kind of have to rip them off your face...they stick to ya so good. Aughhhhhhh... Dottie, I think it is fantastic that you have modified your boxes to go either way. Good for you! I do believe in having your box setups built as complete as one needs them for the area. Down here we are just shy of 800 boxes which are Monitored now. I do not have the number in front of me but less than 50 of those would be top opening. actually I really can't think of any...but there must be some. And for those that are, I have and would keep suggesting to modify them to side or front opening, and most have. Also, for all of these boxes, they .. Do Not Have House Sparrows... now isn't that something. So we have not had to do any trapping...yet. I am so Thankful that these Monitors do not know about having to deal with the HOSP. All of their time is put into their Trail and learning to do what is right without that negative drain of all that can go wrong because of the HOSP. What some have had to deal with, are boxes they had, or the cute ornament boxes which do not open at all. The BBs have found them and made nests. With no way for the Monitor to get in, and not being a good size, and not having a predator guard ...this is where a lot of loss in eggs and babies is happening. Dottie...I am just impressed that you have your boxes which will open both ways. You certainly get a "Gold Star" congratulations on going above and beyond! Christy Sarasota, Fl From: USAjs88 "at"aol.com [mailto:USAjs88 "at"aol.com] From: Patricia Self [mailto:cself "at"elmore.rr.com] Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 10:38 PM Subject: Re: Which Bluebird House to buy? I'll be interested to know what others think of these boxes, which are really nice. Does the ability for people to view the nest(s) make the bluebirds uncomfortable at all? Maybe they like being able to see what's outside? Our own are simple boxes, purchased through a bluebird organization. The boxes we had years ago were opened through use of a nail (driven through the door and into the base of the box) which worked loose and we could pry up the box door. Those we put up this year have a hasp and it will make the door-opening operation much less stressful for nesting birds. I like this improvement!! I don't know your name, or where you are, but do you have to worry about predators where you live? Patricia Self and From: Lana Hunt [mailto:lanahunt "at"kcp.uky.edu] From: Jeff Aufmann [mailto:jaufmann "at"ameritech.net] Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 1:27 PM Subject: RE: Which Bluebird House to buy? That is a heck of a house, also expensive. The blowfly screen seems like a good idea, but I have my doubts that they would be clumsy enough to fall through, and if they did, wouldn't they just climb back up. It also is lacking in ventilation. Jeff, Cary IL From: USAjs88"at"aol.com [mailto:USAjs88"at"aol.com] From: Bet Zimmerman [mailto:ezdz"at"charter.net] I’ve been working on this for about a year. Here’s my work in progress: http://www.sialis.org/nestboxproscons.htm It has a table that lists all the styles (that I know of) of nestboxes, pros, cons, floor sizes and comments, and links to plans if I could find them. I sure would like input, and help filling in the blanks! Bet from CT From: Bet Zimmerman [mailto:ezdz"at"charter.net] Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 8:56 AM Subject: the "BEST" box Hmm, the more I read on this, the less I realize I know (which is probably super obvious to others). After looking at various designs on the BRAW website (interesting nestbox productivity data - see http://www.braw.org/braw_authored_articles.htm) I am thinking more and more there is probably no "best box" that works best in all areas, under all conditions, for all species. For example, unlike Wisconsin, I don’t have to worry about bloodthirsty black flies (some of their boxes have NO ventilation other than entrance holes due to these insects -see http://www.braw.org/articles/ventilation.htm ) However, I do think there are still some recommended common denominators. Bet from CT From: melissa fox [mailto:meberle2"at"hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 4:29 PM Subject: New Member/BB Box question Hello, I would say I'm a beginner, but I used to have Bluebirds for years growing up in my home state of Missouri. I now live in Columbus, Ohio & was considering putting up some boxes for them, then I found out that Ohio is trying to re-establish them so that gave me more motivation to set up houses. I plan on setting them up at my father-in-law's.......who has about 170 acres. The Bluebird house I had as a kid was just a simple house.......now I read about "sparrow resistant" houses and the specifications need to be so so with predator guards, etc. The National Bluebird Society only recommends the houses they sell or the Peterson (which I don't like the looks of). I see Bluebird houses at Wal-mart and other stores and then I got some plans that the Nature Center at our park gave us......I'm a bit baffled at all the styles and don't really know where to start. What kind of recommendations would you give for someone in Central Ohio? I liked the house from the National Bluebird Society with the predator guard, that looks like a wire enclosure over the entrance......but my hubby likes the plans we got from the Nature Center (that would cost a lot less also.) Do those "sparrow resistant' houses really work? I've only seen one so far and don't hear too much about them. I'm really excited about my new "project". I hope I can find a house soon......I know nesting season is about to start. -Melissa from Columbus, OH From: Tree Greenwood [mailto:doctree"at"crosslink.net] Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 9:22 PM Subject: Re: New Member/BB Box question Hi, Melissa, See http://audubon-omaha.org/bbbox/boxlinks.htm The 'wire enclosure' you saw was a Noel guard. > ... Do those "sparrow resistant' houses really work? ... Temporarily but not for long, in almost all cases that I have heard of and in my experience. > I'm really excited about my new "project". I hope I can find a house If all else fails, Melissa, buy a couple of boxes from Lowes or Home Depot at $11 or Wal-Mart for $10. Bluebirds and Tree Swallows often ignore my lovingly created home-built nestboxes in favor of cheap ones from those stores. Do buy a tube of caulk to seal the top and back before you put one of them out for birds. Wishing you the best with your project, R J 'Tree' Greenwood From: lviolett [mailto:lviolett"at"earthlink.net] Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 10:22 PM Subject: Re: New Member/BB Box question Hello Melissa, and welcome to the forum. A great place to look at the pros and cons of various nestbox designs is Bet Zimmerman's web page: Bet is a member of Bluebird-L and she researched about 59 box designs and organized them into a concise easy-to-read chart. After reviewing the chart, you might want to narrow down a few choices and ask the membership any and all questions regarding those designs. Several members on this forum are also from your state of Ohio and they should be able to guide you toward the box(es) that work best for them. Linda Violett From: danhan7"at"sbcglobal.net [mailto:danhan7"at"sbcglobal.net] Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 10:49 PM Subject: Re: New Member/BB Box question Melissa, You can find the Texas Bluebird Society's version of the NABS nestbox at: http://www.texasbluebirdsociety.org/documents/nestboxplans.pdf If you don't need or want the large cross ventilation slots (like for the Texas heat), you can narrow the slots or eliminate entirely the one on the fixed side. The opposite side, which is the hinged door, does need some clearance (or ventilation) so that the door can pivot open. I would suggest you might try the TB-1C model without the insulating roof for your first nestbox as it is the simplest one to build. Rather that mount your nestbox on a wooden post, tree, etc. I would suggest that you mount it on a steel pipe (like emt) or a steel fence post as they make it more difficult for predators (like raccoons and cats) to climb and prey upon the bluebirds. Good luck. Dan Hanan From: melissa fox [mailto:meberle2"at"hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 5:10 PM Subject: BB Box Questions Hi everyone, Thanks for all the suggestions. I think I've narrowed down my BB box choices to two designs. The Peterson and the standard Zeleny plan. I like the Zeleny plan found in a book "The Backyard Birdhouse Book" I checked out at the library. I like it because it has a top and side opening, so if I'm just monitoring I don't have to worry about disturbing the nest too much......but if I need to clean it I have that option too. Also, the Zeleny can be occupided by Tree Sparrows too.......but I'll have to put some kind of cloth inside the front to provide a grip for the fledglings. The only negative things I've heard about from the Peterson design is that it's hard to make. However, one thing that bothers me is the 3" floor. Since I can't decide I'm going to have hubby make both. After walking the farm this weekend I found places for several houses. I figure on pairing a Zeleny with a Peterson.......about 15-25 feet apart. With the next pair of houses about 300 feet away from those. I also plan on putting a hardware cloth "shelf" 3/4" from the floor.......in case there are future blowfly infestations so they won't reach the nest. About how long will it take for the Bluebirds to find the houses? It's already mid-March and I've heard some people already had BB's checking out houses now. I feel like I'm running really behind. Hopefully I can have at least one house built during the weekend. .... -Melissa from Columbus From: KimMarie Markel [mailto:auroramn"at"verizon.net] Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 5:49 PM Subject: Re: BB Box Questions If your looking for a modified Peterson design, I highly recommend Fawzi Emad's plans http://home.comcast.net/~femad/p3/modified_pterson_box.htm We have made several of these boxes (and yes, they are a little more complicated and take longer to make) but we have had very good luck with them - they tend to get chosen first by Eastern Bluebird and Tree Swallows here. kimmarie :) From: Jimmy Dodson [mailto:rocks_and_flies"at"hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 6:24 PM Subject: RE: BB Box Questions .... Don't worry about feeling like you're behind. January/Feb would have been better to have the boxes up, but it's okay. We've put up boxes in March and April before, missing the first brood, but had use during the second and third cycles (we have 3 here). Just keep tabs on the boxes and look for blue's in your area. Take care --J Jimmy Dodson From: melissa fox [mailto:meberle2"at"hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 9:24 PM Subject: Re: BB Box Questions One more question about the Peterson style (and Fawzi's style) box.......in all of the designs and plans I've seen, none of them have roof openings. Is there a reason for that? Based on all the pictures I've seen, it looks like if you were to open to clean it........the box is so steep wouldn't the nest and birds come sliding out as soon as you opened it? -Melissa from Columbus From: Melissa Fox Well I was really hoping to have my BB box finished by this weekend, but.....it's not, but at least it's started. I really like the way it's coming along. My husband is building the Peterson box and hasn't had any trouble. The books say that it's a hard house to build for the first timer but it wasn't. I had him scratch up the front door below the entrance.......just in case a tree sparrow or something were to nest and the fledglings need a little boost. Of course I had to help "fix" it up, since I'm very discriminating ;) After he was done with that, I had him take some hardware cloth stuff (the things Noel guards are made with) and trim a piece to put 3/4" about the floor......just in case there's a blowfly problem in the future. Chances are if there ever is they won't be able to get to the nest very easily and can fall through the holes in the mesh (I hope!) It may make cleaning a little easier too with the least amount of disturbance to the nest... I also thought it would be an extra help to keeping the nest dry, along with the drainage holes, since it won't be sitting on the wet wood floor if the box happened to get wet. But, will that make it hard for them to build a nest on? What if the grass pieces fall through it? :( I also forgot to add "rain grooves" to the roof. I'm glad we didn't rush through it to finish it so I can remember all the little details I wanted to add to it. I don't quite exactly understand just how a groove cut 1" past the roof overhang will help with the rain.....I guess it's supposed to prevent rain from gathering at the tip and being blown in by the wind......but I haven't quite comprehended that yet. I want to add them anyway though......sounds good to me.......lol Eric wants to put polyurathane(?) on the roof....is that advisable? I thought about using a latex house paint for the rest of the house.......but I don't really want to paint it unless you can get it clear. I like the look of natural wood better. That pretty much sums up our progress. Did I miss anything?... -Melissa from Columbus From: Brucemac1"at"aol.com [mailto:Brucemac1"at"aol.com] Hello again Melissa...... From: Torrey [mailto:torrey_canyon"at"yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 10:06 AM Subject: Re: Box progress update Hi Melissa, I use Thompson's WaterSeal Clear Multi-surface Waterproofer on my boxes. (Only on the outside, of Of course, a lot of my boxes are donated by school groups & scout groups, who use pine & easy-to-make flat-roofed designs. Your husand-made boxes would last longer than my kid-made boxes no matter what. :-) yours, Torrey Torrey Wenger From: Sara Ann [mailto:sawright"at"hughes.net] Keith wrote: |
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