Nestbox Clustering (Concentration)

Also see Nestbox Pairing and Nestbox Placement

Hello All,

Unfortunately, I have not been, nor do I yet have time to enjoy participating regularly with you. Maybe someday!!!

But, a few days ago I had an interesting chat with a dedicated bluebirder in Pennsylvania and I thought his strategy might be of interest to some of you, even though I am unable to share in your discussion.

He indicated that house sparrows occasionally "infiltrate" his bluebird trails.

In his experience, House Sparrows are far less likely to usurp the nest of a bluebird if there is one or more additional boxes within 50 feet of that box occupied by bluebirds. His experience also shows that fewer bluebirds will be killed by house sparrows if the additional unoccupied box is available.

This seems to make sense.

If a house sparrow in search of a nest site encounters a nestbox occupied by bluebirds and there is no other box available in which to build a nest, it seems that house sparrow would be more inclined to enter into competition with the bluebird than if there was an unoccupied nest box waiting for nest construction.

This seems to be another reason to abandon the one hundred yard rule for bluebird nest box spacing, even if the trail operator believes helping bluebirds is the only reason for erecting nest boxes, a belief with which I strongly disagree.

I would add this reason to:

A) When spacing nest boxes 100 yards apart, bluebirds will often evict chickadees and other smaller birds because every nestbox satisfies the bluebirds' territorial requirement.

Spacing nest boxes 100 feet or closer, instead of 100 yards, dramatically increases the chances bluebirds will not occupy every box. In many types of habitat, this increases the chances birds smaller than bluebirds (such as chickadees, titmice, Carolina wrens etc.) will learn that using a nest box is a successful strategy.

B) Pairing nest boxes within 25 feet increases the odds that bluebirds will be successful at any single given site in regions where tree swallows compete with bluebirds.

The bluebirder cited also says providing the extra box becomes an aid in trapping the house sparrow without interrupting the bluebird nest attempt.

Hope all of your bluebirds have a huge breeding success this year!

Gary Springer

From: David Gwin [mailto:David.Gwin"at"cityofcarrollton.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 12:02 AM
Subject: Re: Nest Box Concentration

Hi, Gary:

I completely agree with you on this issue. Over two years ago, I abandoned my 1/2 mile, singularly-sited nestbox locating strategy for a much more naturally functioning and more concentrated system.

Further, I have observed that on several occassions when they are "co-located" in my boxes that are closer than 30 feet from each other, titmice and chickadees have "teamed" with blues to defend their areas from house sparrows.

Overall, I believe I have greatly increased the productivity of my boxes and efforts by now "co-locating" my boxes and enthusiastically welcoming all native species to my boxes ... and here in my corner of Texas that includes 5 species of woodpeckers, 3 species of wrens, 3 species of flycatchers, etc. ... and all of them are regularly using my "bluebird" boxes.

Thanks,
David

When beaver move into a pond or stream they create dozens if not hundreds of dead and dying trees within a dozen acres or so.

Forest fires also create many dead trees in a small area and woodpeckers take advantage of all of these sites. When you install 4>6 nestboxes in your yard or 8>10 on a city block you are imitating the clusters of cavities that occur naturally in select areas.

Remember that bluebirds are right now inspecting every potential nest site or cavity in the territory that the male bluebird has claimed. As Gary and David mentioned some of the bird species there are also nuthatches along with larger cavity nesters in desperate need of homes and we will all be starting to find paper wasps, hornets and bumble bees that will be using nestboxes.

If you are physically able try to mount boxes at various heights. Try using a couple of different easy to make styles of nestboxes. Use a few hanging boxes. Look up Linda Violett's methods of hanging nestboxes. The Bluebird Monitor's Guide shows a little different nestbox hanger. Bob Walshaw in Oklahoma uses a hook on a pole and pulls the limb down to eye level instead of raising the box up to the limb.

Male House Sparrows tend to do like the male bluebird they will guard several nestboxes that they personally like and then try to get a female interested in the box in their territory. House Sparrows actually like other house sparrows nesting near them. Get prepared to trap out the house sparrows in your area, order the Van Ert inside the nestbox trap from NABS.
The more nestboxes you have up in different habitat the more wildlife species you will attract. The more you attract this year the more boxes you will need in your area next year:-)) Share the story of these birds when they begin nesting with your local newspapers! You will inspire dozens if not hundreds of people that you will never meet to help the wildlife in your area. KK

Apologies to everyone who read my posts about clustering cavities last year. Not much is new so you can just delete this and move on to some new ideas.

I like to cluster cavities, four in each cluster, typically two traditional nestboxes, a Peterson box and a gourd. My occupancy rate is pretty low. In most cases, only one of the cavities in a cluster is occupied by Eastern Bluebirds or Tree Swallows. One box invariably becomes a House Sparrow trap. My experience is similar to what Gary reported, that HOSP are less likely to try to evict a native bird occupying a cavity if there's a vacant cavity nearby. I haven't lost any eggs or nestlings to HOSP predation since I began clustering. I find it interesting to see which cavity is chosen first by which species.

I have a Purple Martin cluster with fifty or so cavities, a mix of Martin houses, natural and plastic gourds and Bo Villa commercial Martin housing. I try to provide suitable housing for other cavity nesters to keep them out of the Martin housing. I work to get Bluebirds and Tree Swallows nesting close enough to the Martin cluster to defend it from other EABB and TRES.

I also put up a dense cluster of 20 or more small cavities specifically to keep my male House Wren busy and away from the other clusters. Some of those cavities, a mix of gourds and houses, are only a few feet apart. My male HOWR gets frantic in his efforts to stuff sticks into all of those cavities while chasing away any other male HOWR that shows up at my place.

This year, I intend to try managing some natural cavities. When one trunk of a mature Maple tree in my front yard died, I left it. It broke off cleanly about ten years ago and I was treated to a pair of Great Horned Owls nesting on the top platform for six years. Rot caused the back of the tree to slide off, destroying the platform.
You can see five natural Woodpecker holes in the tree now. Unfortunately, European Starlings took over those cavities last year, evicting all the native birds. Shooting the EUST was a chore. See http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v736/doctree/Birds/nat_cavity1.jpg
So this year, I'm going to try making wooden inserts with smaller entry holes suitable for Chickadees and Nuthatches but too small for the EUST.

I do put up single boxes. There's one over in the church yard and one at the back corner of the village cemetery. A big one is mounted high in a Walnut tree for Kestrels or Owls. EABB usually make an attempt in that box but get driven out by EUST. A couple of 'side entrance' boxes similar to http://www.50birds.com/MPSideMount.htm with the top overhanging the back and hinged so I can monitor are mounted against the trunk in mature trees. I mount some larger boxes in hopes of again attracting Great Crested Flycatchers. EABB love the larger boxes with the larger entry holes but often lose their nest to EUST before I can eliminate the exotic pests.

I don't consider myself a 'Bluebirder' although I host a couple of EABB pairs every year and fledge a few broods. I deny managing a 'Bluebird Trail'
although I was informed that anyone who puts up as many Bluebird boxes in as many places as I do certainly does manage a trail. I'm not even a 'birder.' I've never taken a trip just to look at birds although I carry binoculars and notebook everywhere I travel. I just enjoy having birds around me, lots of different birds. I offer cavities because I like to, not from altruistic concern for nature or native birds. More boxes of different sizes and types in more locations attract more and different birds.

There's nothing wrong with 'the rule' of spacing boxes 100 yards or 100' apart. In my experience, that would be most economical in both dollars and effort. Measured by EABB fledged per box, the 100x spacing will be much greater than clusters or pair where cavities end up unoccupied. For someone dedicated primarily to Bluebirds, the 100x rule works. So does pairing. So does my clustering. ;=))

>From my standpoint, have fun. Experiment. Keep
records to see how you're doing. When it's no longer fun, back off until you're having fun again. Show others folks your birds and boxes so they'll continue and expand on what you get started.

Take care,

R J 'Tree' Greenwood
Catlett VA

From: Pauline Tom
Sent: February 15, 2006
RE: Nestbox Concentration/Why House Sparrows Attack

No across-the-board answers exist (at this time) for discouraging House Sparrows from taking over a bluebird nestbox.

I practice high concentrations of nestboxes (17 nestboxes on my residential lot of less than one-acre.) I experience House Sparrows destroying eggs of a native cavity-nesting species, while empty nestboxes (both lumber and PVC) sit within 100 feet.

Pauline Tom
Mountain City (no mountains) TX

I agree with Pauline on this. I think if you have the time and interest it is always interesting to experiment with extra boxes and with spacing boxes.
That is part of the fun of this hobby.

But the idea that any real "rule of thumb" actually works is probably not true or at least it has not been verified by any rigorous analysis -- in most cases.

Years ago when the idea of pairing boxes to allow Bluebirds and Swallows to co-exist started to become popular I "paired" my entire trail (i.e., doubled the number of boxes) with sets of boxes less than 10 feet apart. This idea was never demonstrably successful and the number of Bluebirds fledged remained about the same while the number of Swallows produced increased significantly.

In my opinion, your results with box pairing will depend primarily on what is happening to the various cavity nesting bird populations in your region.

In my area Swallows are markedly increasing in numbers and so they are taking over more and more of my trail. Swallows as a members of the Swallow family (many of which are actual colony nesters -- e.g., Martins) seems to be much more tolerant of "traffic" in his neighborhood. And more tolerant of neighbors too.

In the last three years I have had at least one case each year of Swallows using both of the boxes in a pair. (usually this happens when one of the nests is nearing fledge or in one case a male -- apparently with two females).

Again, my point is experiment because that it part of the fun. But all these "rules" about pairing and "proper distance" are pretty much anecdotal
in my opinion. They might work -- they might not.

Ditto with H. Sparrows -- MANY years ago (like 1955!) I was trying to attract Bluebirds out on the western edge of North Dakota (yes good luck! -- however, I was only 10 at the time and idealistic -- I am smarter than that
now) and I had Sparrows in every box on the farm many located within 10 feet apart. They did not care. If you have an area with Sparrows -- putting up extra boxes will probably not do you one wit of good. Its all random. One time it might work the next time the Sparrow will kill a Bluebird while there is an empty box nearby. You need to get rid of the Sparrows or move your boxes.

These are my opinions and are not scientifically verified obviously!

Bernie Daniel
Ohio Bluebird Society

Hi Bernie, Pauline, and List....

Did I miss something, or did Gary say or imply that pairing or additional nest boxes are a "rule of thumb" or "across-the-board" solution for discouraging house sparrows?

The only thing I read that remotely resembled a "rule of thumb" was his opinion that the 100 yard rule should be abandoned in order to provide more nesting sites for other small cavity nesters who might utilize the additional nest boxes.

Although I can't address the HOSP issue ( fortunately, I don't have that problem), I have to agree with Gary because although I've never had more that one active bluebird nest in my yard nest boxes, I've had four species -- titmouse, nuthatch, chickadee, and bluebird -- nesting in boxes about 24 to 30 feet apart peacefully.

On my golf course trail where most nest boxes are at least 100 yards apart, bluebirds have evicted nuthatches and chickadees, building over nests of the smaller birds. In some cases, the smaller birds fended off the bluebirds and had successful fledges. House wrens are my biggest problem, but that's another thread.....

MJ
Mary Jane Shearer; Tucker, GA

As many people have noted here, there are not hard and fast rules and individual birds can exhibit almost as many differences as individual humans do, and research has proved that even though all male EABL's or mallard ducks may look identical to us, they don't to each other, and they can't even look at themselves in a mirror.

I never paid any attention to the 100 yard rule, not out of altruism, but because I only had 5 acres, three of which were woods, and I had too much fun experimenting in my work shop to only put up a box or two. So I put up everything I made and if it wasn't something I was happy with it became a house wren dummy nest box.

I've seen a lot of birds who don't follow the rules, including a nest box tended by two female EABL's and one male, and then their first successful brood all helped with the second nest last summer. This box was less than 50 feet from another successful bluebird nest box, and on the same acre with three other boxes used successfully by tree swallows. One other box was taken over by a male bobolink who used it to survey his domain and spot insects.

I agree with "Tree's" post earlier. It never hurts to try and see what the rules really are, as long as you monitor for the evil trio (house sparrows, starlings and brown headed cowbirds.

Rob Barron-Woodstock,Georgia

Adding more nestboxes does not decrease House Sparrow competition from my experience.

For monitors such as Bruce Burdett who have Tree Swallows protecting a pair of boxes, that works for them (and actually, I don't think Bruce Burdett has House Sparrows in his area). At any rate, monitors with House Sparrows who do not have Tree Swallows protecting the pair of boxes will most likely have House Sparrows attempting to nest in the "extra" box.

Bluebirds on my trail can protect their one box on a 2-acre forage territory from House Sparrows and that is all. They cannot protect multiple boxes from House Sparrows. House Sparrows will take the second box. If one box is offered on my established trail (using 2-holed hanging mansions), Western Bluebirds can hold the box. If an extra Bluebird sized box is offered, House Sparrows often come into the area and cause problems and House Sparrows do not necessarily choose the empty "extra" box. They often seem to want to nest in the same box chosen by Bluebirds. If House Sparrows are allowed to occupy a second box then monitors have another dilemma . . . do they oust House Sparrow nests/eggs/chicks?

Dean Sheldon is quoted in the Bluebird Monitor's Guide as saying House Sparrows go on rampages if their nests are disturbed. So folks contemplating a second box to lure House Sparrows away from their "Bluebird"
box might be afraid to touch or disturb those HOSP nests. (I don't believe
in rampages; all House Sparrow nests are trashed and smashed without a second thought on my trail.)

But for folks who *do* believe in rampages, a second (or more) box(es) for House Sparrows will create a troublesome quandary and wringing of hands when (not if) House Sparrows start building nests.

Back to the original reason for Gary Springer's post. Do extra boxes help to make a Bluebird territory safer for nesting Bluebirds? From my experience, an emphatic *no*!!

Here are the logs of a trail just about cleaned out of House Sparrow problems on a golf course using one box per 2-acre forage territory (no trapping/killing of House Sparrows):
http://home.earthlink.net/~lviolett/conversion.html

And here are the logs of a trail with House Sparrow problems where extra boxes were added in response to House Sparrow infestations from 2002 through
2003 (no trapping/killing of House Sparrows):
http://home.earthlink.net/~lviolett/testmirada.html

The second link (directly above) was horribly infested with House Sparrows.
Much more entrenched than the first site. The thought to take home is that extra boxes in a House Sparrow problem area may be an invitation to escalated problems. If you go to the above site at La Mirada, the first nestbox site (La Mirada-Tennis) had two boxes in 2003 (House Sparrow problems). Two more boxes were added. It had four boxes in 2004 . . . all with House Sparrow problems.

Then go to the next nestbox (La Mirada-Manzanares), it had one box in 2002 with House Sparrow problems. Another box was added in 2003 and both boxes had House Sparrow problems.

Then go to the next nestbox logs (La Mirada-Pastrana), notice how House Sparrows seem to follow Bluebirds from box to box.

Add extra boxes at your own risk. And then only if you aren't afraid of
trashing and smashing House Sparrow nests while Bluebird chicks are in a nearby box.

Linda Violett
Yorba Linda, Calif.

From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 8:24 AM
Subject: Re: Starling chronicles

Yes, they can be as bothersome and destructive as HOSP, at least in my case. This is going into my 9th year on my trail and had not been bother with Starlings until a couple of seasons ago. They come to a power pole right near one of the nestboxes and eggs were taken and on the first nesting cycle some nestlings. We are putting wooden guards on the nestbox and I plan to keep my air rifle with me when I check my trail. I am putting guards on two more boxes near this one that was predated. I have never had HOSP problems.

Evelyn Cooper, President
Delhi, LA

Bernie is right on target, in my opinion. Study your area carefully,
and use the techniques and configurations that work where you are.

Bruce Burdett

"Did I miss something, or did Gary say or imply that pairing or additional nest boxes are a "rule of thumb" or "across-the-board" solution for discouraging house sparrows?"

Well each can make their own call on that but it did read like advice. And to be clear I was not taking issue anyway I was merely pointing out that people should do what seems to work best for them -- not rely on a "formula".

But I will say any policy of using extra boxes to avoid House Sparrow predation is unlikely to succeed. When H. Sparrows and Bluebirds coexist you have the potential for problems and box availability is not a realiable deterent.

If you have problems with Bluebirds competing with other smaller native cavity nesters (e.g., chickadees) I would add a box(es) with a smaller diameter hole.

As to competition, I have had a couple of cases of a Bluebird taking a box away from a chickadee but I have never seen that happen to a Titmouse they are pretty feisty.

Bernie Daniel
Ohio Bluebird Society

Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas
I quickly scanned down Linda's trail and I only saw one attempt of wrens at one box and the rest are either Western Bluebirds or House Sparrows or competitors like Honey Bees or mice.

As Bernie and others say experiment on your trail in your backyard or in your park and see what you can do to increase the diversity of cavity nesters on your lot, on your block or in your county!

I prefer to remove the adult House Sparrows whenever possible because these adult birds can live 5 to 10 years and will nest 3>5 times a summer if not in your boxes then somewhere else nearby.

On my trail I have 300 plus nestboxes along about 180 miles of roads. These are about 98% bluebird boxes with almost no other native cavity nesting birds. In parks where I may have clusters or extra nestboxes for the acreage then I will get up to 8 other species of natives nesting where there are excess boxes. On our twenty acres I now have up well over 100 nestboxes and on these twenty acres I will raise more chickadees and more titmice and more Great Crested Flycatchers than from the nestboxes on my roadside nestbox trail. This is ONLY five nestboxes per acre!

The road side trail covers more than 1,200 square miles, notice that on my road side trail on average I have up only one nestbox for every 2,560 acres.....Most research shows that there are 2>5 natural cavities per acre in woodland areas. This can translate to 1280 to 3,200 natural cavities per square mile of woodland. This is where the natural death and disease of trees is left to progress without removing or pruning out dead or dying trees. Way back in 1979 I fledged 1,235 Eastern Bluebirds that year or only one bluebird per square mile! KK

Linda,
One minor observation: though I do have Tree Swallows "protecting" both boxes of a pair, I have *never* had the swallows *nest* in both boxes. Never. When Tree Swallows nest in one box of a pair, the other box is normally taken by Bluebirds, or by some other cavity-nester, or it remains un-occupied.
Frequently Tree Swallows join forces with Bluebirds in harassing (sp?) other species which get too close to the paired boxes.
You are right in saying that House Sparrows are not a major problem for me, though I do see them occasionally.

For me where I am, pairing works well. My paired boxes are 15-20 feet apart - no more.

Bruce Burdett, Sunapee NH

My purpose in having multiple nestboxes is threefold. First I want to provide housing for as many native species as possible. Second, I want to give them a choice, since there may be something about one nestbox they don’t like. Another nestbox nearby may satisfy them, otherwise they may fly down the road looking for something better. Third, if house sparrows do start nesting, you can trap them in the incubation stage and the only nestbox is not tied up while you are doing so. I have found that house sparrows settle down at this stage, tending to their nest rather than rushing around to other nestboxes, and it is easy to catch both the male and female during the incubation stage because their behavior is so predictable. If anyone wants details about trapping using this method, just e-mail me privately.

Kate Arnold
Paris, TX

Tree Swallows do not normally nest in colonies or side by side. However,
I had a flock of Tree Swallows to take a 12 compartment Purple Martin house and nest in every compartment and lay eggs.

When Dr. Dan, a physician in Indy and Tree Swallow expert, heard about this unusual nesting, he sent two Purple Martin men out to investigate.

Sure enough they were Tree Swallows. But when we opened the
compartments, we found a full grown dead Tree Swallow. We don't know why
the bird died unless it was from old age.

Unfortunately, the other Tree Swallows left when the bird died in one of the compartments and never did return to their nests or eggs.

I took pixs of the compartments, eggs, nests and dead Tree Swallow and
they used to be on The BB Box. Maybe they still are in the archives.

Dottie, Hickory Hollow
Brown County, Indiana

Bruce said:
> Up here, single boxes placed more than 20 feet apart will almost certainly become Tree Swallow boxes. 100 feet or more apart is out of the question if you want to house Bluebirds.

This always amazes me. My trail of 115 boxes is not paired & this is totally not what happens. Last season i had 71 nest attempts by Eastern Bluebirds &
86 by Tree Swallows.

My trail is broken into sections. There were 2 sections where the EABL claimed more boxes & 3 sections where the TRES claimed more. The good EABL areas are the antenna field (a big field with large antennae with guy lines) & a big grassy area that's been burned the last couple of springs. The other areas have more trees. (One is getting overgrown.)

I suspect here it's a habitat thing. TRES & EABL have been competing for thousands of years & seem to be pretty evenly matched. Maybe Bruce just gets all the super-aggressive swallows?

Kalamazoo is halfway inbetween Chicago & Detroit. I don't know where exactly that puts us latitude-wise in relation to Bruce's box, but it should be fairly close. It'd be very interesting to figure out why my TRES & his act so differently on the trail.

Torrey Wenger
Kalamazoo Nature Center
Kalamazoo, MI

Hi, Torrey:

That's nothing ... for the past two years, I have had a pair of scissor-tail flycatchers in one of my bluebird boxes and a pair of eastern bluebirds that absolutely insist on nesting in a discarded flower pot (FYI - this flower pot is barely 30 feet from an unused bluebird box). Don't they know that every bird book we have strictly prohibits this type of housing tenure for their respective species!
Hahaha!

Maybe we are all just witnessing avian behavioral evolution ...
extremely up close! I for one very much enjoy hearing about all of the "exceptions" that we all encounter on a regular basis.

Have a great day,
David

Dear Evelyn,I live ineast TN.However I have never had more than 1 pair of Bluebirds to nest in the yard at a time.All winter long I watched mom&pop bluebird allow their 4 baby bluebirds follow them all winter.now mom&pops nest is complete same box again this year.Of the 4 fledglings were 2 boys 2 girls.One of the young pair has started building it`s nest in box not 20 feet away so far mom&pop don`t seem to care.The other nest is probably 30 yards away ,it is about 3/4 complete.Is it possible that since they are their own that they would let them nest?Normally if another bluebird lands in the yard when they are nesting they let it know Quickly to leave.Have you ever seen this ? David Hinds,Oliver Springs,TN.

David, I am taking the liberty to copy to the List as this is a very interesting situation. No, I've never seen anything like this.

My yard is a little over two acres. I've had three nestboxes in it for 8 years with one of them occupied. Last year was the first time I had two nesting in it. However, my house is between two of the boxes that were taken and they are out of sight of each other.

Sometimes Bluebirds will build a nest or a partial nest and then not use it. However, for them to be building so close together in itself is unique.

Hey, remember, we said the birds don't read the books.

You really need to keep us posted about this. If they are really serious about nesting that close together, that should be documented from start to finish.

Maybe some others have had something similiar and it would be good to hear about it.

Evelyn

From: KCBSP"at"aol.com [mailto:KCBSP"at"aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 9:33 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: 3 Bluebird nest in same 1.5 acre yard?

Hello,

I've seen two pair in a small yard. One in the back and the other out front. They were closer than the recommended distance. They were out of sight from each other when looking from one box towards the other. Both raised young and fledged. It was a long time ago, but I think it was cause of being out of sight.

Kathy Clark, New Cumberland, PA

Trish Culpepper - Frankston, TX
I would also be interested in hearing if anyone else has had a similar experience. I have two bluebird houses set up about 250 feet apart, but there are multiple pine trees in between. Last year, the EABLs chose one box, this year they have completed a nest in the other box. I am hoping the pine trees will be enough of a block so I might have two BB families this year.

Our 'yard' is a little over 1 acre on a 23-acre farm that sits on a long stretch of farmland, with fields, woods, and a creek. Several years ago, just on our 1 acre, we had six of our boxes occupied by bluebirds.....not counting the boxes up our 1/4 mi. driveway. All boxes were in sight of at least one other. The boxes were along the perimeter of our 'yard' which is bordered by hay fields. That large, additional open area was surely a factor..........since our birds never felt crowded.

Most of our song birds left last year due to the drought we've had for several years. I'm new to this forum, but I'll do my best to monitor the boxes this year. Just today, I noticed several new BB. They were checking out.....the martin houses!

Sara Ann Wright
Thayer MO

p.s. Late one winter afternoon once, we counted 14 BB squeezing into one box for the night, even though there were other boxes available. Pretty crowded!

From: markmele"at"att.net [mailto:markmele"at"att.net]
Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 8:29 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: 3 Bluebird nest in same 1.5 acre yard?

Greetings,

I have two acres cut, with two boxes on my deck off of the back of the house 15ft apart, and the third box 275' away in the corner of the lot. All boxes are in sight of each other. I have never had bluebirds in either of the deck houses and in the corner of the lot at the same time. Usually a pair of BBs will take one of the deck boxes and TRES will take the box in the corner of the lot, or vice versa. ...

Also, I wanted to mention that I have been feeding my BBs all Winter long. They have have enjoy eating the small berries that I replenish daily. It has also helped having a heater in my bird bath for a source of water for them. ...

M. Mele - Hillsborough, NJ

From: Snoopy [mailto:snoopy"at"wmis.net]
Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 1:25 PM
Subject: Re: 3 Bluebird nest in same 1.5 acre yard?

We have 3 acres here and I always have 4 pairs of boxes up.
the most I have had occupied by BLUEbirds at one time is 2, HOWEVER, I have also had 3 sets occupied by TRES at the same time.
It's nice to have all of them here....sure cuts down on the bugs out there!!!

Joy in Michigan =P

Is it necessary to have EABL nestboxes isolated by themselves or can you have other nestboxes nearby

Cal Lindberg, Lawrenceville, Ga.

Cal,
All my Bluebird houses (72) are paired, 10 to 20 feet apart, which means that I have 36 pairs. The distance between pairs varies from about 500 feet to about two miles.
I have none that are "isolated by themselves." Isolated boxes, here where I am in NH, become Tree Swallow boxes.
With my paired boxes, Bluebirds and Tree Swallows get along fine - Bluebirds in one house and Tree Swallows in the other.
I have no idea how pairing would work in Georgia. I gather that you have no Tree Swallows there. How about the Violet-greens?

Bruce Burdett SW NH

I set up my first house this year and blu-birds came but now a sparrow has moved in. Am I suppose to take the nest out that still looks like only the bluebird has contributed to it?

Steve M

Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas
It would be better to add a couple more nestboxes to other areas of your yard or in a nearby pasture to allow the bluebirds to move until you can catch or trap the House Sparrow that has taken control of your one nestbox.
It works better where multiply species may want part of your yard to nest in to have at least four nestboxes out of sight of each other where one species can control one nestbox and the space around that one nestbox. KK

Ruth wrote: "Currently I have three bluebird boxes spaced on my one acre property. A female EABL built a nest in the one box, almost completely finished except the for the final center cup. Now I see her carrying material into another box nearby. Do they sometimes change their mind and start a second nest? I don't want to pull out the first nest that she made just in case she goes back to it. I wish she would make up her mind. ha! Now for my second dilemma. That leaves one box left and I have a Tree Swallow and a Black Capped Chickadee arguing over the third box. Should I put up a 4th box to accommodate everyone??"

That reminds me of a quote from Shirl Brunnel from I Hear Bluebirds: "Nesting boxes are everywhere.
Really, there are too many. But they are for bluebirds, and there can never be too many bluebirds."

Yes Ruth, I would absolutely put up at least one more box. I like having multiple nestboxes in a
variety of styles. Different style boxes may be preferred by different birds. Sometimes a bluebird
will prefer to use a different box for a second or third brood of the season. I always like to have
some extras available too in case something happens (like wasps) or for late arrivals.

Bet from CT

I'm not sure my last email "sent" so here's another one. Thanks for the suggestion on sharing with neighbors. How close can we all put boxes? We live in a forested area, each property is about an acre; ours is 4.5 acres. Can I put boxes 100 feet from one another, but on the other side of the house? I heard putting boxes out on the lawn is better than in the forest? Is this correct?

Thanks,

Pamela Goss
Waxhaw, North Carolina

From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com]
Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2006 2:07 PM
Subject: Re: People naming "their" bluebirds ;plus some questions on box placement

I think the last recommendation for EABL is 135 yards apart, but I know they will nest closer. One hundred was the original recommendation. They like to nest out of sight of each other. I have two pair nesting on my 3 acre yard out of sight of each other.

Yesterday, my husband and I erected a brand new beautiful sign on one of our LBBS Trails. I noticed that some of the boxes looked to be about 65 yards apart. They all had bluebird eggs in them. The boxes were placed with a tree between for being out of sight.It is on the grounds of the LA Dept. of Ag & Forestry. It is a beautiful trail, bordered by a white fence along Highway 80 and about 15 of the boxes can be seen from the highway.

As for the forest, they like open spaces better, but close enough (no farther than 100 ft.) from a tree or building for the babies to fledge to. They stay in the trees about a week or so being fed by their parents before they start being taught to drop to the ground and feed themselves.

This trail I was referring to has a good many of the boxes among trees, but far enough from the trees that the bluebirds take them. (it is sort of open between the trees).

Some people have luck with them nesting under the trees and some in hanging boxes in the trees. It has not worked for me. I've had to move several that were 10 ft. from a tree after the second year of no nesting. Funny thing, I moved them just a few feet farther from the tree in the same location and they were there in a heartbeat! I should have moved them two years prior! I was learning. This is the way my birds are.

Evelyn, LA

My husband always wanted to buy some land somewhere as a form of investment and I always said no. Now I'm rethinking that ;) . We're both 40 years old , no kids... what better way to spend your weekends driving to the bluebird trail with some coffee and checking the nestboxes :) . So my question is if we find a property of around 3 acres that is suitable to bluebirds how many nestboxes can I put up ? I've read anyhwhere from 100 ft to 100 yards apart ,so instead of doing the math maybe the experienced bluebirders can give me an approximate number . Thanks !

Veronica
Richmond,Va

If you have no Tree Swallows, I would put up at least 10 boxes.
If you have Tree Swallows, I would put some back to back and
the other ones ten to fifteen feet apart. I would put up at
lest twenty boxes.

Maynard Sumner
Flint, MI

From: "Amy Marr" <ensorcell7"at"hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: how many nestboxes on 3 acres ?
Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 11:29:48 -0500

I choose to pleasantly disagree.
I have 5 acres , of which 3 is fenced and is pasture land with some trees.
I think of it as 'ideal' Bluebird territory.
I would not be able to have more then 2-3 pairs of tree swallows and 2 pairs
of bluebirds on that 3 acres of land.

You suggest she put up 20 boxes on 3 acres? (!) :) ??

Amy,

You are right. I do not know how I came up with that.
One of my days when I was not thinking right.

Maynard Sumner
Flint, MI

Well, Maynard, maybe so, but I do know that some on the List do put lots of
nestboxes on a small area. I think Pauline Tom has lots of them in her yard.
It has been discussed on here before, if I am not mistaken. Maybe some that
do put up lots of them on a small area can comment about it and the
advantages of it.

Evelyn

I have 2.86 acres (which is almost 3) and I have 8 boxes... set up in 4
pairs...
each is at a different corner of my lot,
and although they are somewhat "visable" from each other, their "bug
hunting territories" are mostly blocked by the house... (my house is like
smack dab in the middle of our lot)
I have "something" nesting in at least ONE of each pair right now...
I have 2 boxes with Bluebirds, and 2 with Swallows.
I also had one with sparrows....but I took care of that little problem...
hehehe <evil laugh>

I usually have 4-6 boxes occupied at ALL TIMES during nesting season. I don't think I would put up any more boxes than what I have now. ...

Joy in Michigan =P

From: "MJ Shearer" <eshearer"at"comcast.net>
Subject: Re: how many nestboxes on 3 acres ?
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 18:54:46 -0400

There's nothing wrong with your thinking, Maynard.

I have 5 nestboxes on an approx. 3/4 acre lot, and I've had
as many as 4 nestboxes occupied by different native cavity
nesters at the same time.

Remember, other species need our help, too.

MJ

Mary Jane Shearer; Tucker, GA

Evelyn,

I agree with you, I only have 3.5 acres for my boxes. All six are occupied
with Bluebirds, I would have had more but I was too late in adding boxes. My
first round produced 21 fledglings, so far four on the second round, the
rest have not yet hatched. An interesting note was that two pair swapped
boxes after the first round, the nests were removed and the boxes cleaned. I
have more boxes now and will add them next year until a box goes empty. I
also have many tree swallows who insist on living only in Purple Martin
houses.

Mike

From: "Maynard Sumner" <m-r-sumner"at"juno.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 00:23:44 GMT
Subject: Re: how many nestboxes on 3 acres ?

Well, maybe ten would be okay.

Maynard Sumner
Flint, MI

Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 20:44:52 -0400
From: "Robert Barron" <rebarron"at"gmail.com>
Subject: Re: how many nestboxes on 3 acres ?

I think it really depends what surrounds your acres. On my 5 acres
here in Virginia, only the snobs, realtors and tax assessors care
what's yours. The Bluebirds in a nest box on the edge of my neighbor's
horse pasture really have 200 acres to forage on and don't care that
they are on the edge of my yard. The House Wrens and Carolina Wrens in
the smaller nest boxes along the old fallen down barbed wire fence
overgrown with honeysuckle and grape vines don't know the huge brush
pile in the horse pasture on the other side isn't mine and don't care
that the vet next door has 2000 acres to my 5. I know for sure the
House Sparrows don't care. I don't think you can put up too many nest
boxes if you are monitoring for House Sparrows. A variety of nest box
sizes and locations will teach you a lot about what birds prefer.

Robb Barron

From: "lviolett" <lviolett"at"earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: how many nestboxes on 3 acres ?
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 20:00:18 -0700

You are correct, Rob. The number of nestboxes depends on location.
On my urban trail, the correct number is one Bluebird sized box per 2 acres
of forage. You can compute that forage area as your property and/or
surrounding forage area. Additional boxes equates to an open invitation to
House Sparrows on my urban trail. If boxes with smaller holes are offered,
it will be taken by House Wrens and larger boxes will be taken by Starlings.
So that leaves one Bluebird sized box per 2 acres forage.

The mountain trail next to the forest is very flexible because there is a
greater diversity of cavity nesters. Three acres on that trail could have a
couple Bluebird-sized boxes for Bluebirds, Flycatchers and Flying Squirrels.
Smaller boxes will be used by Pygmy Nuthatches, White Breasted Nuthatches
and Mountain Chickadees.

Linda Violett
Yorba Linda and Big Bear, Calif

Hi Linda and all,

To clarify a bit, do you recommend one bluebird box/2 acres of open space *in your urban area* only?

Are there no other small native cavity nesting birds on your urban trail, other than house wrens?

Do you only provide 2 bluebird nestboxes/3 acres on your mountain trail? If so, do you ever have smaller cavity nesting birds using the bluebird size boxes?

I ask because around here, chickadees and nuthatches compete with bluebirds for larger boxes. It sounds like your CA birds have very different habitat and nesting habits from our EABL and other small cavity nesters in GA. Lots in our neighborhood in N/E Atlanta average
1/2 to 3/4 acre, adjoined by two golf courses, so this area supports quite a few cavity nesting species with no problem.

Thanks,
MJ

Mary Jane Shearer; Tucker, GA

My question is if you only put one bluebird box per 2 acres, do the HOSP's compete for it too? It seems the Bluebirds would have a harder time if there is only one box offered. You do use passive control and from what you stated below, it sounds like you offer only one box per 2 acres on your urban trail.

Evelyn

Dear Veronica and friends,

At one 3 acre property (a vineyard) we installed 5 paired sets of Bluebird nest boxes. That's 10 nest boxes paired together or in other words 5 locations.

Though Barn Owl nesting took off like a rocket in 2006, songbird cavity nesting got off to a late start, but at this 3 acer property, all paired sets have Bluebirds in one nest box and we have some with Violet Green Swallows in the adjacent nest box.

At this 3 acre property;

All nest boxes face East. I've explained the merits of facing nest boxes East many times on Bluebird L, so I'll not get into it again.

Holes size for these nest boxes are cut at 1 9/16" for Western Bluebirds (1 1/2" will work for both Eastern and Western Bluebirds
too) and 1 3/8" for Tree or Violet Green Swallows.

Spacing is 20 feet between paired nest boxes.

Spacing between these paired sets is hundred (100) yards.

Vineyards are full of foliage, so territorial issues between males is limited. Because of the foliage I probably could add more nest boxes to this property, but I'd recommend starting out with 5 nest boxes or 10 in paired sets. ....

John Schuster, Owner / Operator
Wild Wing Company
1179 Debbie Hill Road
Cotati, CA

Mary Jane, on my "Other Bird" page
http://home.earthlink.net/~lviolett/otherbirds.html, a small bird used a box on the urban trail in 1998 (see photo of "1998 Nest"). Other than that, no small bird besides HOWR use small boxes on the urban trail and I removed all small boxes from the urban trail as of last year.

The mountain trail has more diversity and more boxes are offered with a fun assortment of styles and groupings. Old 1-holers and 2-hole prototypes have been relegated to the mountain trail. In general, Bluebirds and larger cavity nesters use the larger boxes. Smaller birds (Chickadees, Nuthatches) will use small 2-holers built specifically for Mountain Chickadees with 1.25" holes and old 1-holers with 4x4 floors and hole restrictors. Flying Squirrels have used a large floored 1-holer and a Bluebird-sized 2-holer.

You said your neighborhood consists of 1/2 and 3/4 acre lots. On my urban trail, homes on lots that size are considered horse property estates.

Did this answer all your questions?

Linda Violett
Yorba Linda and Big Bear, Calif..

Linda, do you have any figures of fledging rates anywhere? I quickly
scrolled through all the records, but did not see any actual numbers. I keep
numbers as that is what is important to me in the final chapter.

Evelyn

David wrote: Just out of curiousity ... how close are those boxes to the nearest
large tree or "the woods"?

David, mine have to be about 20 ft. from the trees or bushes. I had 4 that
David, mine have to be about 20 ft. from the trees or bushes. I had 4 that were closer and they would not use them. After two years, I told my husband we had to move them. Moving them about 10 ft. farther from the trees did the trick. (My husband just shakes his head) and of course does what I ask him to do. :<))

On our newest sponsored trail at Lake Bistineau in Doyline, LA, the nestboxes are circled around about a 30 acre plot tree line with the center of it mowed very close. This first year produced a bluebird pair and we were thrilled. We got the boxes up a little late, but did have takers. It should be a bluebirders dream trail.

Evelyn

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